Mario Williams (1 Viewer)

[JuniorNB]

In large part due to the new QB, new WR, new coach, and old RB coming back and giving the offense a running game (since the new rookie isn't doing that).Bush has contributed to the Saints offense, but let's not act like the extreme turnaround is all on him. I can fully admit Mario contributed nothing for his first 3 games...but folks try to give Bush way to much credit.

The new QB, new WR, and old RB wouldn't be having the success they are without Reggie B. Deuce looks slow to me, but is getting yards because the lanes are so big. Colston is good, but is getting a lot of 1-1 coverage. He should excel in that role due to his size.Brees...well I'm just a fan of Brees anyway, so yes, he does help a bit.

Wow. If they had two Bushes, they probably wouldn't even put a guy on Colston, and they would give McAllister even bigger lanes.

 

[RKMoney]

Mario has more sacks than Reggie Bush has TDs

And I have just as many TD's as Bush. So what does that mean?

It means Bush aka "The Christ of the NFL" has had 4 games to score a TD and he still doesnt have anymore than the guy sitting on his couch watching him.

Score a TD is a TOTAL crapshoot in the NFL. See LT as a prime example or LJ until yesterday as another.What isn't a crapshoot is yards accumulation, and as for Bush, he is on his way towards a 1500 total yards accumulation if you project out his current ttl yards over the course of the season. I think getting a back who can return kicks/be used a receiver and runner who can get you 1500 yards his first year out is a pretty damn solid #1 overall pick.

I don't, not if he doesn't excel at the main thing a RB is supposed to do...run the ball.The total yards argument kills me as well. It would have more merit if Bush's average yards per catch or per return were above average...to make up for him not excelling at running the ball....but the numbers aren't.

If you think first year out of the gate your RB can get you 1500 total yards for your team and it means nothing then this conversation has ended.A more talented back could score less TD than an inferior one (see Bettis last year as prime example), to me, that doesn't mean more TD = better player. Strictly fantasy, sure but the discussion is how the Texans blew it picking Mario over Bush.

 

[Bertha]

Mario Williams has as many sacks as I have pimples on my left buttcheek. Reggie Bush has as many TD's as I have contracted venereal diseases. Brett Favre has more interceptions than I have roaches in my apartment complex.

 

[RKMoney]

In large part due to the new QB, new WR, new coach, and old RB coming back and giving the offense a running game (since the new rookie isn't doing that).Bush has contributed to the Saints offense, but let's not act like the extreme turnaround is all on him. I can fully admit Mario contributed nothing for his first 3 games...but folks try to give Bush way to much credit.

The new QB, new WR, and old RB wouldn't be having the success they are without Reggie B. Deuce looks slow to me, but is getting yards because the lanes are so big. Colston is good, but is getting a lot of 1-1 coverage. He should excel in that role due to his size.Brees...well I'm just a fan of Brees anyway, so yes, he does help a bit.

Wow. If they had two Bushes, they probably wouldn't even put a guy on Colston, and they would give McAllister even bigger lanes.

What's NO and HOU record so far to date?

 

[icehouse]

I'll sum this up from my perspective:

As a Jaguars fan, I was absolutely terrified of Reggie Bush going to the Texans. The guy was going to create havoc all over the field, drawing a safety out of coverage or God forbid a linebacker, and open up the entire offensive gameplan. The amount of improvement that team would've had with Bush in the backfield would've been remarkable because at all times, he must be accounted for on the field. You can already see the makings of this with the Saints, whether it be a reverse where the entire defense is over-pursuing Reggie or the seams in coverage’s his presence makes. His stats are not truly indicative of what he's done for that team, and his worth goes far beyond 3 YPC. In fact the only rookie HB to even approach what he means to the Saints right now is Maroney, and he doesn't even begin to attract the defensive attention Bush does on a regular basis.

Mario Williams, in short, does none of that. The fact is that as a fan of an opposing team in the division, I was ecstatic when they signed him and I've seen nothing to change that. At his best, at his peak, at his apex, he is a player that can be managed out of a game. Reggie Bush already defies that in the fourth week of his career.

The Bush apoligists kill me. So far he hasn't lived up to his lofty draft expectations, AND IT'S OK TO ADMIT THAT. Bush's best contribution so far has been as a decoy, and a receiver that you can line up at different spots. A glorified decoy isn't worth the #1 spot in the draft either, and certainly isn't worth $50M. A glorified decoy isn't the next Sayers, Barry, next great back, etc. Why is it so hard for y'all to admit that Bush's impact as a RB (see the impact Maroney is having for example, and he is also splitting carries) hasn't been all that great? A RB's main job is to run the ball. Yes, Bush must be accounted for no matter where he lines up on the field....but so does Dante Hall and Micheal Pittman. That advantage (ability to put a RB out wide) isn't more important than me being able to give my RB the ball and have him do a RB's main job....RUN THE DAMN BALL. So far Bush is not stellar at that. The Saints offense is much improved because Bush is there (he has contributed), they have a new stud QB, a new quality receiver (and Horn is not having hammy issues) and Deuce is back (ya know, the RB that is actually doing a RB's job). If Deuce wasn't there moving the chains the passing game would go to hell because Bush hasn't shown the ability to be effective running.In Houston, Bush would have been counted on to run the ball and be an every down back. Running the ball is the area that he is contributing to least...yet we blew it by not picking him?

With all that being said, Mario Williams sucked in his first 3 games. He made an impact this Sunday (1.5 sacks and a game winning tipped pass). So far he hasn't lived up to #1 billing and Bush hasn't lived up to #2. No regrets on Bush from this Houston fella. Maroney is a different story though.

Bush is projected out to 1500 total yards which will be greater than ALL Texans RB this year. Call that not living up to his hype?Mario can't play the likes of Miami every week but at least he is consistant from his college days, play against piss poor teams and he shows up, play against better ones then he is a zero.

Did you see that nice run around TD from Betts two weeks ago ONLY because Mario was MAN HANDLED one-on-one? Guess you missed that.

Yes, I do call that not living up to the hype. He was hyped as the next great RB. So far he isn't even the best RB in his draft class (Maroney, Williams and Norwood have looked better running the ball).Yes, he can catch. Are his numbers highly above average for his receptions?

Yes, he can return kicks. Are his numbers above average?

There is a difference between having the ability to do something and being a gamebreaker at it. Bush went #2 because he was supposed to be a gamebreaker at all of those things. Versatility does not make up for you not succeeding at the main thing your position requires you to do. Vick can get you 100 yards rushing, but that doesn't make him a great QB. Hines Ward and Randle El can throw the ball, but it doesn't make them the best WR's. The extra abilities of those players wouldn't mean squat if they sucked at the main duties of their position (passing the ball and catching the ball in the mentioned cases). It's nice that Bush is versatile...but he either needs to:

A) run the ball well

B) be so great at receiving or returning to make up for the lack of A

for me to regret passing him.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

In large part due to the new QB, new WR, new coach, and old RB coming back and giving the offense a running game (since the new rookie isn't doing that).Bush has contributed to the Saints offense, but let's not act like the extreme turnaround is all on him. I can fully admit Mario contributed nothing for his first 3 games...but folks try to give Bush way to much credit.

The new QB, new WR, and old RB wouldn't be having the success they are without Reggie B. Deuce looks slow to me, but is getting yards because the lanes are so big. Colston is good, but is getting a lot of 1-1 coverage. He should excel in that role due to his size.Brees...well I'm just a fan of Brees anyway, so yes, he does help a bit.

Wow. If they had two Bushes, they probably wouldn't even put a guy on Colston, and they would give McAllister even bigger lanes.

<_< Please. Are you saying these guys would have approximated this success without Bush? I mean even gotten close?

 

[RKMoney]

I'll sum this up from my perspective:

As a Jaguars fan, I was absolutely terrified of Reggie Bush going to the Texans. The guy was going to create havoc all over the field, drawing a safety out of coverage or God forbid a linebacker, and open up the entire offensive gameplan. The amount of improvement that team would've had with Bush in the backfield would've been remarkable because at all times, he must be accounted for on the field. You can already see the makings of this with the Saints, whether it be a reverse where the entire defense is over-pursuing Reggie or the seams in coverage’s his presence makes. His stats are not truly indicative of what he's done for that team, and his worth goes far beyond 3 YPC. In fact the only rookie HB to even approach what he means to the Saints right now is Maroney, and he doesn't even begin to attract the defensive attention Bush does on a regular basis.

Mario Williams, in short, does none of that. The fact is that as a fan of an opposing team in the division, I was ecstatic when they signed him and I've seen nothing to change that. At his best, at his peak, at his apex, he is a player that can be managed out of a game. Reggie Bush already defies that in the fourth week of his career.

The Bush apoligists kill me. So far he hasn't lived up to his lofty draft expectations, AND IT'S OK TO ADMIT THAT. Bush's best contribution so far has been as a decoy, and a receiver that you can line up at different spots. A glorified decoy isn't worth the #1 spot in the draft either, and certainly isn't worth $50M. A glorified decoy isn't the next Sayers, Barry, next great back, etc. Why is it so hard for y'all to admit that Bush's impact as a RB (see the impact Maroney is having for example, and he is also splitting carries) hasn't been all that great? A RB's main job is to run the ball. Yes, Bush must be accounted for no matter where he lines up on the field....but so does Dante Hall and Micheal Pittman. That advantage (ability to put a RB out wide) isn't more important than me being able to give my RB the ball and have him do a RB's main job....RUN THE DAMN BALL. So far Bush is not stellar at that. The Saints offense is much improved because Bush is there (he has contributed), they have a new stud QB, a new quality receiver (and Horn is not having hammy issues) and Deuce is back (ya know, the RB that is actually doing a RB's job). If Deuce wasn't there moving the chains the passing game would go to hell because Bush hasn't shown the ability to be effective running.In Houston, Bush would have been counted on to run the ball and be an every down back. Running the ball is the area that he is contributing to least...yet we blew it by not picking him?

With all that being said, Mario Williams sucked in his first 3 games. He made an impact this Sunday (1.5 sacks and a game winning tipped pass). So far he hasn't lived up to #1 billing and Bush hasn't lived up to #2. No regrets on Bush from this Houston fella. Maroney is a different story though.

Bush is projected out to 1500 total yards which will be greater than ALL Texans RB this year. Call that not living up to his hype?Mario can't play the likes of Miami every week but at least he is consistant from his college days, play against piss poor teams and he shows up, play against better ones then he is a zero.

Did you see that nice run around TD from Betts two weeks ago ONLY because Mario was MAN HANDLED one-on-one? Guess you missed that.

Yes, I do call that not living up to the hype. He was hyped as the next great RB. So far he isn't even the best RB in his draft class (Maroney, Williams and Norwood have looked better running the ball).Yes, he can catch. Are his numbers highly above average for his receptions?

Yes, he can return kicks. Are his numbers above average?

There is a difference between having the ability to do something and being a gamebreaker at it. Bush went #2 because he was supposed to be a gamebreaker at all of those things. Versatility does not make up for you not succeeding at the main thing your position requires you to do. Vick can get you 100 yards rushing, but that doesn't make him a great QB. Hines Ward and Randle El can throw the ball, but it doesn't make them the best WR's. The extra abilities of those players wouldn't mean squat if they sucked at the main duties of their position (passing the ball and catching the ball in the mentioned cases). It's nice that Bush is versatile...but he either needs to:

A) run the ball well

B) be so great at receiving or returning to make up for the lack of A

for me to regret passing him.

Classic, compare a RB who plays in cruch time over one who plays in mop up duty then say mop up RB is better.Thanks for being honest though in saying a rookie rb who can get you 1500 total yards isn't living up to the hype though which is about 100 yards less than LT rookie year.

 

[JuniorNB]

In large part due to the new QB, new WR, new coach, and old RB coming back and giving the offense a running game (since the new rookie isn't doing that).Bush has contributed to the Saints offense, but let's not act like the extreme turnaround is all on him. I can fully admit Mario contributed nothing for his first 3 games...but folks try to give Bush way to much credit.

The new QB, new WR, and old RB wouldn't be having the success they are without Reggie B. Deuce looks slow to me, but is getting yards because the lanes are so big. Colston is good, but is getting a lot of 1-1 coverage. He should excel in that role due to his size.Brees...well I'm just a fan of Brees anyway, so yes, he does help a bit.

Wow. If they had two Bushes, they probably wouldn't even put a guy on Colston, and they would give McAllister even bigger lanes.

<_< Please. Are you saying these guys would have approximated this success without Bush? I mean even gotten close?

The biggest difference is Brees instead of Brooks.

 

[onionsack]

Mario has more sacks than Tomlinson has TDs

Changed. Guess that means LT < Mario since you base sacks and TDs as a gage of how great a player is going to turn out.

He implied that Williams was better than Bush because Williams has more sacks than Bush has TDs. If that's how he ranks players (by sacks to tds) then he must also have Williams ranked higher than LT.

But Tomlinson has 3.. that's where I'm confused.

Can I change it to Tiki then? Think you get the gist of it, right? Saying Mario having more sacks than bush has tds isn't a sound statement.

How sound an argument is it to dismiss a draft pick after 4 games? Michael Strahan had one sack and zero solos after his first nine games. He seemed to work out OK. Way too early to judge the wisdom of the pick, in my opinion.

 

[The Gator]

In large part due to the new QB, new WR, new coach, and old RB coming back and giving the offense a running game (since the new rookie isn't doing that).Bush has contributed to the Saints offense, but let's not act like the extreme turnaround is all on him. I can fully admit Mario contributed nothing for his first 3 games...but folks try to give Bush way to much credit.

The new QB, new WR, and old RB wouldn't be having the success they are without Reggie B. Deuce looks slow to me, but is getting yards because the lanes are so big. Colston is good, but is getting a lot of 1-1 coverage. He should excel in that role due to his size.Brees...well I'm just a fan of Brees anyway, so yes, he does help a bit.

Wow. If they had two Bushes, they probably wouldn't even put a guy on Colston, and they would give McAllister even bigger lanes.

<_< Please. Are you saying these guys would have approximated this success without Bush? I mean even gotten close?

Without Bush I think they are still 3-1.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The biggest difference is Brees instead of Brooks.

That's a huge factor, I'll give you that.Still, once Bush adapts his style to the NFL, I think he'll be an all-time great.

 

[icehouse]

I'll sum this up from my perspective:

As a Jaguars fan, I was absolutely terrified of Reggie Bush going to the Texans. The guy was going to create havoc all over the field, drawing a safety out of coverage or God forbid a linebacker, and open up the entire offensive gameplan. The amount of improvement that team would've had with Bush in the backfield would've been remarkable because at all times, he must be accounted for on the field. You can already see the makings of this with the Saints, whether it be a reverse where the entire defense is over-pursuing Reggie or the seams in coverage’s his presence makes. His stats are not truly indicative of what he's done for that team, and his worth goes far beyond 3 YPC. In fact the only rookie HB to even approach what he means to the Saints right now is Maroney, and he doesn't even begin to attract the defensive attention Bush does on a regular basis.

Mario Williams, in short, does none of that. The fact is that as a fan of an opposing team in the division, I was ecstatic when they signed him and I've seen nothing to change that. At his best, at his peak, at his apex, he is a player that can be managed out of a game. Reggie Bush already defies that in the fourth week of his career.

The Bush apoligists kill me. So far he hasn't lived up to his lofty draft expectations, AND IT'S OK TO ADMIT THAT. Bush's best contribution so far has been as a decoy, and a receiver that you can line up at different spots. A glorified decoy isn't worth the #1 spot in the draft either, and certainly isn't worth $50M. A glorified decoy isn't the next Sayers, Barry, next great back, etc. Why is it so hard for y'all to admit that Bush's impact as a RB (see the impact Maroney is having for example, and he is also splitting carries) hasn't been all that great? A RB's main job is to run the ball. Yes, Bush must be accounted for no matter where he lines up on the field....but so does Dante Hall and Micheal Pittman. That advantage (ability to put a RB out wide) isn't more important than me being able to give my RB the ball and have him do a RB's main job....RUN THE DAMN BALL. So far Bush is not stellar at that. The Saints offense is much improved because Bush is there (he has contributed), they have a new stud QB, a new quality receiver (and Horn is not having hammy issues) and Deuce is back (ya know, the RB that is actually doing a RB's job). If Deuce wasn't there moving the chains the passing game would go to hell because Bush hasn't shown the ability to be effective running.In Houston, Bush would have been counted on to run the ball and be an every down back. Running the ball is the area that he is contributing to least...yet we blew it by not picking him?

With all that being said, Mario Williams sucked in his first 3 games. He made an impact this Sunday (1.5 sacks and a game winning tipped pass). So far he hasn't lived up to #1 billing and Bush hasn't lived up to #2. No regrets on Bush from this Houston fella. Maroney is a different story though.

Bush is projected out to 1500 total yards which will be greater than ALL Texans RB this year. Call that not living up to his hype?Mario can't play the likes of Miami every week but at least he is consistant from his college days, play against piss poor teams and he shows up, play against better ones then he is a zero.

Did you see that nice run around TD from Betts two weeks ago ONLY because Mario was MAN HANDLED one-on-one? Guess you missed that.

Yes, I do call that not living up to the hype. He was hyped as the next great RB. So far he isn't even the best RB in his draft class (Maroney, Williams and Norwood have looked better running the ball).Yes, he can catch. Are his numbers highly above average for his receptions?

Yes, he can return kicks. Are his numbers above average?

There is a difference between having the ability to do something and being a gamebreaker at it. Bush went #2 because he was supposed to be a gamebreaker at all of those things. Versatility does not make up for you not succeeding at the main thing your position requires you to do. Vick can get you 100 yards rushing, but that doesn't make him a great QB. Hines Ward and Randle El can throw the ball, but it doesn't make them the best WR's. The extra abilities of those players wouldn't mean squat if they sucked at the main duties of their position (passing the ball and catching the ball in the mentioned cases). It's nice that Bush is versatile...but he either needs to:

A) run the ball well

B) be so great at receiving or returning to make up for the lack of A

for me to regret passing him.

Classic, compare a RB who plays in cruch time over one who plays in mop up duty then say mop up RB is better.Thanks for being honest though in saying a rookie rb who can get you 1500 total yards isn't living up to the hype though which is about 100 yards less than LT rookie year.

Maroney and D.Williams play in mop-up duty? Norwood does....but are his rushing numbers still not better? Sad that Bush can't outrush RB's who only get mop-up duty, if that's the case. Enjoy your total yards. When I draft a RB what I care about most is rushing yards, especially when I pay him $50M. Silly of me I guess........

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Enjoy your total yards. When I draft a RB what I care about most is rushing yards, especially when I pay him $50M. Silly of me I guess........

Well at least you can admit it. That's big of you.

 

[RKMoney]

Mario has more sacks than Tomlinson has TDs

Changed. Guess that means LT < Mario since you base sacks and TDs as a gage of how great a player is going to turn out.

He implied that Williams was better than Bush because Williams has more sacks than Bush has TDs. If that's how he ranks players (by sacks to tds) then he must also have Williams ranked higher than LT.

But Tomlinson has 3.. that's where I'm confused.

Can I change it to Tiki then? Think you get the gist of it, right? Saying Mario having more sacks than bush has tds isn't a sound statement.

How sound an argument is it to dismiss a draft pick after 4 games? Michael Strahan had one sack and zero solos after his first nine games. He seemed to work out OK. Way too early to judge the wisdom of the pick, in my opinion.

Strahan wasn't drafted #1 overall over a player who was deemed a 'can't miss' rb who comes around once every decade.

 

[RKMoney]

I'll sum this up from my perspective:

As a Jaguars fan, I was absolutely terrified of Reggie Bush going to the Texans. The guy was going to create havoc all over the field, drawing a safety out of coverage or God forbid a linebacker, and open up the entire offensive gameplan. The amount of improvement that team would've had with Bush in the backfield would've been remarkable because at all times, he must be accounted for on the field. You can already see the makings of this with the Saints, whether it be a reverse where the entire defense is over-pursuing Reggie or the seams in coverage’s his presence makes. His stats are not truly indicative of what he's done for that team, and his worth goes far beyond 3 YPC. In fact the only rookie HB to even approach what he means to the Saints right now is Maroney, and he doesn't even begin to attract the defensive attention Bush does on a regular basis.

Mario Williams, in short, does none of that. The fact is that as a fan of an opposing team in the division, I was ecstatic when they signed him and I've seen nothing to change that. At his best, at his peak, at his apex, he is a player that can be managed out of a game. Reggie Bush already defies that in the fourth week of his career.

The Bush apoligists kill me. So far he hasn't lived up to his lofty draft expectations, AND IT'S OK TO ADMIT THAT. Bush's best contribution so far has been as a decoy, and a receiver that you can line up at different spots. A glorified decoy isn't worth the #1 spot in the draft either, and certainly isn't worth $50M. A glorified decoy isn't the next Sayers, Barry, next great back, etc. Why is it so hard for y'all to admit that Bush's impact as a RB (see the impact Maroney is having for example, and he is also splitting carries) hasn't been all that great? A RB's main job is to run the ball. Yes, Bush must be accounted for no matter where he lines up on the field....but so does Dante Hall and Micheal Pittman. That advantage (ability to put a RB out wide) isn't more important than me being able to give my RB the ball and have him do a RB's main job....RUN THE DAMN BALL. So far Bush is not stellar at that. The Saints offense is much improved because Bush is there (he has contributed), they have a new stud QB, a new quality receiver (and Horn is not having hammy issues) and Deuce is back (ya know, the RB that is actually doing a RB's job). If Deuce wasn't there moving the chains the passing game would go to hell because Bush hasn't shown the ability to be effective running.In Houston, Bush would have been counted on to run the ball and be an every down back. Running the ball is the area that he is contributing to least...yet we blew it by not picking him?

With all that being said, Mario Williams sucked in his first 3 games. He made an impact this Sunday (1.5 sacks and a game winning tipped pass). So far he hasn't lived up to #1 billing and Bush hasn't lived up to #2. No regrets on Bush from this Houston fella. Maroney is a different story though.

Bush is projected out to 1500 total yards which will be greater than ALL Texans RB this year. Call that not living up to his hype?Mario can't play the likes of Miami every week but at least he is consistant from his college days, play against piss poor teams and he shows up, play against better ones then he is a zero.

Did you see that nice run around TD from Betts two weeks ago ONLY because Mario was MAN HANDLED one-on-one? Guess you missed that.

Yes, I do call that not living up to the hype. He was hyped as the next great RB. So far he isn't even the best RB in his draft class (Maroney, Williams and Norwood have looked better running the ball).Yes, he can catch. Are his numbers highly above average for his receptions?

Yes, he can return kicks. Are his numbers above average?

There is a difference between having the ability to do something and being a gamebreaker at it. Bush went #2 because he was supposed to be a gamebreaker at all of those things. Versatility does not make up for you not succeeding at the main thing your position requires you to do. Vick can get you 100 yards rushing, but that doesn't make him a great QB. Hines Ward and Randle El can throw the ball, but it doesn't make them the best WR's. The extra abilities of those players wouldn't mean squat if they sucked at the main duties of their position (passing the ball and catching the ball in the mentioned cases). It's nice that Bush is versatile...but he either needs to:

A) run the ball well

B) be so great at receiving or returning to make up for the lack of A

for me to regret passing him.

Classic, compare a RB who plays in cruch time over one who plays in mop up duty then say mop up RB is better.Thanks for being honest though in saying a rookie rb who can get you 1500 total yards isn't living up to the hype though which is about 100 yards less than LT rookie year.

Maroney and D.Williams play in mop-up duty? Norwood does....but are his rushing numbers still not better? Sad that Bush can't outrush RB's who only get mop-up duty, if that's the case. Enjoy your total yards. When I draft a RB what I care about most is rushing yards, especially when I pay him $50M. Silly of me I guess........

Exactly, don't throw in Norwood into the mix unless you count his yards yesterday when ATL was up 50 points against a team who already packed it in.Funny, but go ask any coach in any league and I am sure they would laugh in your face if you told them total yards doesn't mean much. Guess that means Faulk wasn't really THAT good since his reception yards shouldn't factor into his game. It's not as if REC yards are a part of football or anything, right?

 

[JuniorNB]

Mario has more sacks than Tomlinson has TDs

Changed. Guess that means LT < Mario since you base sacks and TDs as a gage of how great a player is going to turn out.

He implied that Williams was better than Bush because Williams has more sacks than Bush has TDs. If that's how he ranks players (by sacks to tds) then he must also have Williams ranked higher than LT.

But Tomlinson has 3.. that's where I'm confused.

Can I change it to Tiki then? Think you get the gist of it, right? Saying Mario having more sacks than bush has tds isn't a sound statement.

How sound an argument is it to dismiss a draft pick after 4 games? Michael Strahan had one sack and zero solos after his first nine games. He seemed to work out OK. Way too early to judge the wisdom of the pick, in my opinion.

Strahan wasn't drafted #1 overall over a player who was deemed a 'can't miss' rb who comes around once every decade.

Is it possible that not everyone considered him a "can't miss"? As of right now, he looks the the third or fourth best running back to come out of this year's draft. That's not to say he'll stay there, but that's where he is right now. I'm sure he'll get better.I'm also sure that Williams will get better.

I know that Bush forces team's into paying attention to him and that may be opening things up for the rest of teh offense, but a lot of that is based on his college reputation. Sooner or later, he has to do more than just be a threat.

Bottom line is, it's way too early to tell who is going to be a better pro. And if Mario Williams has three sacks next week, or Bush finally has a good game rushing and hits the end zone once or twice, it'll STILL be too early.

 

[Bonfire]

there are numerous holes in lots of arguments here, but i do find it ridiculous when people whine that "if they wanted williams, they should have traded down"

news flash: even if you want to trade down, it doesn't mean teams want to trade up.

plenty of teams are happy drafting a little later in the top of the draft, because at the top there are at least a handful of "uber" talents, and they are going to get one of them at least. the top pick is almost becoming a burden, as the cap number you have to take with it is increasing every year. the model for success seems to be build up a corp of solid/good players, more good players than a few great players, then if you need a stud get him via FA to put you over the top.

 

[The Gator]

Strahan wasn't drafted #1 overall over a player who was deemed a 'can't miss' rb who comes around once every decade.

Deemed = done nothing yet. Im not even a Bush hater. Just enough already. Tony Mandarich was "deemed" the next best OT of all time. Im not saying Bush is a bust, but man the love fest is :X .

 

[Two Deep]

Strahan wasn't drafted #1 overall over a player who was deemed a 'can't miss' rb who comes around once every decade.

Deemed = done nothing yet. Im not even a Bush hater. Just enough already. Tony Mandarich was "deemed" the next best OT of all time. Im not saying Bush is a bust, but man the love fest is :X .

 

[popeye]

Mario has more sacks than Reggie Bush has TDs

And I have just as many TD's as Bush. So what does that mean?

You deserve boatloads of

 

[RKMoney]

Mario has more sacks than Tomlinson has TDs

Changed. Guess that means LT < Mario since you base sacks and TDs as a gage of how great a player is going to turn out.

He implied that Williams was better than Bush because Williams has more sacks than Bush has TDs. If that's how he ranks players (by sacks to tds) then he must also have Williams ranked higher than LT.

But Tomlinson has 3.. that's where I'm confused.

Can I change it to Tiki then? Think you get the gist of it, right? Saying Mario having more sacks than bush has tds isn't a sound statement.

How sound an argument is it to dismiss a draft pick after 4 games? Michael Strahan had one sack and zero solos after his first nine games. He seemed to work out OK. Way too early to judge the wisdom of the pick, in my opinion.

Strahan wasn't drafted #1 overall over a player who was deemed a 'can't miss' rb who comes around once every decade.

Is it possible that not everyone considered him a "can't miss"? As of right now, he looks the the third or fourth best running back to come out of this year's draft. That's not to say he'll stay there, but that's where he is right now. I'm sure he'll get better.I'm also sure that Williams will get better.

I know that Bush forces team's into paying attention to him and that may be opening things up for the rest of teh offense, but a lot of that is based on his college reputation. Sooner or later, he has to do more than just be a threat.

Bottom line is, it's way too early to tell who is going to be a better pro. And if Mario Williams has three sacks next week, or Bush finally has a good game rushing and hits the end zone once or twice, it'll STILL be too early.

I'll take a top 3 RB over Mario's production at this point.Bottom line, you watch the HOU/WASH game and see them sweep around Mario's side and he is DOMINATED one-on-one, that's pretty telling there.

Mario didn't show up on about half his colege plays while you definitely can't say that about Bush who went all out when he played.

 

[RKMoney]

there are numerous holes in lots of arguments here, but i do find it ridiculous when people whine that "if they wanted williams, they should have traded down"

news flash: even if you want to trade down, it doesn't mean teams want to trade up.

plenty of teams are happy drafting a little later in the top of the draft, because at the top there are at least a handful of "uber" talents, and they are going to get one of them at least. the top pick is almost becoming a burden, as the cap number you have to take with it is increasing every year. the model for success seems to be build up a corp of solid/good players, more good players than a few great players, then if you need a stud get him via FA to put you over the top.

Especially when the Texans front office EARLY in the offseason acted like a bunch of clowns and said that they weren't interested in trading down AND said they were NOT going to draft a QB since Carr was their guy. They played their hand so it made NO sense for ANY team to trade with them.

 

[RKMoney]

Strahan wasn't drafted #1 overall over a player who was deemed a 'can't miss' rb who comes around once every decade.

Deemed = done nothing yet. Im not even a Bush hater. Just enough already. Tony Mandarich was "deemed" the next best OT of all time. Im not saying Bush is a bust, but man the love fest is :X .

Saying one player is clearly better than another doesn't mean "love fest"

 

[Worm]

RKMONEY - I think that we all accept your point that if fiery asteroids fell from heaven and destroyed the world, the Texans then would have made a mistake on choosing Williams over Bush. Barring that, most smart, rational people will wait more than FOUR games before judging.

 

[RKMoney]

RKMONEY - I think that we all accept your point that if fiery asteroids fell from heaven and destroyed the world, the Texans then would have made a mistake on choosing Williams over Bush. Barring that, most smart, rational people will wait more than FOUR games before judging.

You think Peppers or LT was almost a complete no-show first four games of a season? Do you think either player was dominated like Mario has been for most of his plays? I think most smart rational people who have followed Mario's game from college to the pros will tell you that while he can look strong against the weak teams, he hasn't looked strong against the better talented teams.

 

[The Gator]

Strahan wasn't drafted #1 overall over a player who was deemed a 'can't miss' rb who comes around once every decade.

Deemed = done nothing yet. Im not even a Bush hater. Just enough already. Tony Mandarich was "deemed" the next best OT of all time. Im not saying Bush is a bust, but man the love fest is :X .

Saying one player is clearly better than another doesn't mean "love fest"

Yes, it does. Esp. when said player has not proven it yet. There has been nothing proven one way or the other here. The bashing on Mario is uncalled for and the "love fest" for Bush is all hype. Both of these guys are young. Let them at least play ONE season before you totaly bash someone. Im sure after Peppers first game where he only had one assist you would asked for him to be cut.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Mario has more sacks than Tomlinson has TDs

Changed. Guess that means LT < Mario since you base sacks and TDs as a gage of how great a player is going to turn out.

Actually, I think LT has 3 TDs on the season...RK, please check your stats before you just start spouting in these threads, thanks.

 

[blenderfrog]

Brett Favre has more interceptions than I have roaches in my apartment complex.

Gotta raise the flag on that one.

 

[The Gator]

RKMONEY - I think that we all accept your point that if fiery asteroids fell from heaven and destroyed the world, the Texans then would have made a mistake on choosing Williams over Bush. Barring that, most smart, rational people will wait more than FOUR games before judging.

You think Peppers or LT was almost a complete no-show first four games of a season? Do you think either player was dominated like Mario has been for most of his plays? I think most smart rational people who have followed Mario's game from college to the pros will tell you that while he can look strong against the weak teams, he hasn't looked strong against the better talented teams.

Yes.Peppers-

Week 1 - 1 assist.

Week 2 - 4 tackle 3 sacks

Week 3 - 1 tackle

Week 4 - 1 tackle

Mario-

Week 1 - 2 tackles

Week 2 - 2 tackles

Week 3 - 2 tackles

Week 4 - 1 tackle 1.5 sacks

Again, totaly bashing this kid is uncalled for.

 

[Keys Myaths]

Mario has more sacks than Reggie Bush has TDs

And I have just as many TD's as Bush. So what does that mean?

Absolutely NOTHING.

Just like this thread.In the end, you might be right, but four games isn't enough to establish a whole career off of.Quit your trolling.

Says the troller who adds absolutely nothing to the thread.

Actually, I did, but hey, you live in your own world.

 

[JuniorNB]

RKMONEY - I think that we all accept your point that if fiery asteroids fell from heaven and destroyed the world, the Texans then would have made a mistake on choosing Williams over Bush. Barring that, most smart, rational people will wait more than FOUR games before judging.

You think Peppers or LT was almost a complete no-show first four games of a season? Do you think either player was dominated like Mario has been for most of his plays? I think most smart rational people who have followed Mario's game from college to the pros will tell you that while he can look strong against the weak teams, he hasn't looked strong against the better talented teams.

Yes.Peppers-

Week 1 - 1 assist.

Week 2 - 4 tackle 3 sacks

Week 3 - 1 tackle

Week 4 - 1 tackle

Mario-

Week 1 - 2 tackles

Week 2 - 2 tackles

Week 3 - 2 tackles

Week 4 - 1 tackle 1.5 sacks



Again, totaly bashing this kid is uncalled for.

It helps the Reggie-lovers get over Bush's crappy start.

 

[Tau837]

RKMONEY - I think that we all accept your point that if fiery asteroids fell from heaven and destroyed the world, the Texans then would have made a mistake on choosing Williams over Bush. Barring that, most smart, rational people will wait more than FOUR games before judging.

I am a N.C. State alum/fan, so I am biased. That said, clearly it is too early to judge Mario. I don't think he will be Reggie White, but I do think he will be a good to great NFL player.How many of you actually watched him play in college? I'm guessing not many, since there aren't many N.C. State fans on these boards. So all of you spouting off about how many plays he took off in college are mostly just regurgitating what you have seen/heard elsewhere. At State, he was the guy who was double teamed, not the other guys... he made those guys first round picks, not the other way. So many here are giving Bush credit for "making his teammates better", which is EXACTLY what Mario did in college... yet those same people are knocking him for his college performance.As someone mentioned, QB, OT, and DE are generally considered to be key franchise positions. And just like those other two, it is rare for a rookie to come into the NFL and dominate at DE. He is 21 and won't turn 22 until after the NFL season. How many 21 year old defensive ends are dominating the NFL right now?I'm not going to argue, because I don't think some here, RKMoney chief among them, can have a rational discussion on this topic. I just want to go on the record saying that I think Williams will ultimately be a Pro Bowl caliber player. Not this year, but in the not too distant future (barring injury).

 

[NoFBinLA]

Bush hasn't had a crappy start. neither has Mario.

Other rooks have had BETTER starts this season so far. The long haul is what counts and like most here, I won't judge any of the guys - Bush, MWilliams, DWilliams, Maroney, Norwood, Addai, Harrison, Moss, Colston -- any of them for a couple of years.

I DO wonder how much the Texans knew or were paying attention to DD's knee. It seemed early last year, predraft, that something was up, at least to me. I wonder if they didn't want to believe it, thought they had some sneaky RB they wanted to pick up later, or what happened.

Hindsight is 20/20 but even before the draft I thought they were in trouble with DD. Mind you I had no idea he was THIS bad off, but I thought it ill advised they didn't look harder at a RB before Lundy.

I like Bush - I think he will continue to be an impact player and improve. His yard totals are great and he's a stellar decoy - I think the Saints (and Reggie) expect more from him.

I like Williams. I think he will develope into a very good defensive player. He's got a way to go and I bet even he thinks so.

It's too early to bag on these guys either way.

 

[Aaronstory]

I'll only say this -

Opposing Defensive Coordinators are spending a lot more time scheming how to contain Bush than their offensive counterparts are scheming how to minimize Mario's impact.

 

[cstu]

there are numerous holes in lots of arguments here, but i do find it ridiculous when people whine that "if they wanted williams, they should have traded down"

news flash: even if you want to trade down, it doesn't mean teams want to trade up.

plenty of teams are happy drafting a little later in the top of the draft, because at the top there are at least a handful of "uber" talents, and they are going to get one of them at least. the top pick is almost becoming a burden, as the cap number you have to take with it is increasing every year. the model for success seems to be build up a corp of solid/good players, more good players than a few great players, then if you need a stud get him via FA to put you over the top.

Especially when the Texans front office EARLY in the offseason acted like a bunch of clowns and said that they weren't interested in trading down AND said they were NOT going to draft a QB since Carr was their guy. They played their hand so it made NO sense for ANY team to trade with them.

They wanted Mario Williams because he improved them at one of their worst positions. They needed help on defense and saw a player who they thought could make an impact. The Texans first 3 games were against playoff teams and it's no surprise that a rookie DE would struggle against them. The fact is that good DE's are much more difficult to find than good RB's, who are available every year in the draft. By the way, he's already had a better rookie year than Michael Strahan and is on pace for a better season than Strahan's 2nd.

 

[cstu]

I'll only say this -Opposing Defensive Coordinators are spending a lot more time scheming how to contain Bush than their offensive counterparts are scheming how to minimize Mario's impact.

Who gives a ####? Sanders gave DC's headaches too but how many championships did he win? Maybe the Texans didn't want to become the Lions. The Saints are doing well with Bush because they have another Pro Bowl RB on their team to get the tough yards, let's wait and see what happens to them when Bush is in the backfield alone.

 

[JuniorNB]

Let's not forget the fact that the Texans stink and a lot of defensive ends get their sacks when their team is winning big and they can pin their ears back and bull-rush. Williams won't get that chance this year.

 

[DerangedGridironGeek]

Just going on the record that my previous post wasn't meant to bash the Texans pick. I'll also wait to make any judgement on both of these players. I was just stating that the Texans passing game has looked pretty good, so Davis OR Bush would have made this team very interesting on offense.

Also, FYI. The texans have played the Eagles, Colts, Redskins, & Dolphins. They have some good OLs in that group.

 

[Aaronstory]

I'll only say this -Opposing Defensive Coordinators are spending a lot more time scheming how to contain Bush than their offensive counterparts are scheming how to minimize Mario's impact.

Who gives a ####? Sanders gave DC's headaches too but how many championships did he win? Maybe the Texans didn't want to become the Lions. The Saints are doing well with Bush because they have another Pro Bowl RB on their team to get the tough yards, let's wait and see what happens to them when Bush is in the backfield alone.

Wow. Where in that post did I say I agreed with the Texans taking Williams? Or the Saints taking Bush? Jimmy Christmas, try calming down son...

 

[cstu]

I'll only say this -Opposing Defensive Coordinators are spending a lot more time scheming how to contain Bush than their offensive counterparts are scheming how to minimize Mario's impact.

Who gives a ####? Sanders gave DC's headaches too but how many championships did he win? Maybe the Texans didn't want to become the Lions. The Saints are doing well with Bush because they have another Pro Bowl RB on their team to get the tough yards, let's wait and see what happens to them when Bush is in the backfield alone.

Wow. Where in that post did I say I agreed with the Texans taking Williams? Or the Saints taking Bush? Jimmy Christmas, try calming down son...

Sorry, got carried away with that one but it's the same reasoning people have been using to bash the Mario pick from day one. IMO, the Texans are set to be a better football team with Mario than Bush. The fact is that the Texans were never going to win a lot of games without fixing their defense and now they have a guy who can disrupt the QB - very important in a division with Manning, Leftwich and, er, Vince Young.

 

[icehouse]

Quick comment on the Bush yardage. I am not trying to say total yardage isn't important. However, a RB's main point of impact should be rushing yards and touchdowns. A WR's main point of impact should be receptions, receiving yards and touchdowns. Same for a QB (passing yards, passing td's, completion %, etc).

Yes, it's nice that Bush is versatile and can be used in many different ways, but that advanatge is negated if he doesn't excel at the main duties of his position (rushing yards and touchdowns). The "total yards" argument would carry more weight if his averages per reception/return were off the charts (to make up for the average rushing numbers), but they aren't. It's easier to say "look at his total yards..told you he is great" than it is to admit that he hasn't shown anyone he is a stellar RB yet.

The complete package backs that folks keep mentioning (Faulk, Thurman Thomas, etc) had success running the ball!!!! That's when the versatility is an advantage, when a RB can catch and do returns in addition to being successful running.

For every Bush apoligist using the total yards argument, you are a hypocrite if you don't think Mike Vick is the games best QB because he get's a hell of a lot more rushing yards than Bush does for his receiving/return yards, he is a better passing QB than Bush is a running RB, he gets into the endzone and I can't think of many other players more important to their teams (since everyone wants to credit Bush for Colston being huge with good hands, Brees doing what he did in San Diego and Deuce racking up yards).

 

[Wadsworth]

Quick comment on the Bush yardage. I am not trying to say total yardage isn't important. However, a RB's main point of impact should be rushing yards and touchdowns. A WR's main point of impact should be receptions, receiving yards and touchdowns. Same for a QB (passing yards, passing td's, completion %, etc).

Yes, it's nice that Bush is versatile and can be used in many different ways, but that advanatge is negated if he doesn't excel at the main duties of his position (rushing yards and touchdowns). The "total yards" argument would carry more weight if his averages per reception/return were off the charts (to make up for the average rushing numbers), but they aren't. It's easier to say "look at his total yards..told you he is great" than it is to admit that he hasn't shown anyone he is a stellar RB yet.

The complete package backs that folks keep mentioning (Faulk, Thurman Thomas, etc) had success running the ball!!!! That's when the versatility is an advantage, when a RB can catch and do returns in addition to being successful running.

For every Bush apoligist using the total yards argument, you are a hypocrite if you don't think Mike Vick is the games best QB because he get's a hell of a lot more rushing yards than Bush does for his receiving/return yards, he is a better passing QB than Bush is a running RB, he gets into the endzone and I can't think of many other players more important to their teams (since everyone wants to credit Bush for Colston being huge with good hands, Brees doing what he did in San Diego and Deuce racking up yards).

It's way too early to judge any of these careers. But including return yards in the argument is pretty weak. If that's the case maybe Houston is crazy for not taking Mo Jones-Drew. Reggie Bush:

rushing: 47 attempts, 147 yards for a 3.3 YPC avg. 0 TD's

receiving: 23 recs, 187 yards for an 8.1 YPC avg. 0 TD's

punt returns: 9 for 57 yards, a 6.3 avg. 0 TD's

Maurice Drew:

rushing 20 attempts, 118 yards for a 5.9 YPC avg, 0 TD's

receiving: 9 rec's, 91 yards for a 10.1 YPC average, 2 TD's

kick returns, 9 for 233 yards, for a 25 yard avg, 0 TD's.

More "total" yards, more TDs and better averages. Now who would rather have Drew over Bush? Doubt it's many non-UCLA fans.