Mark Ingram, RB, New Orleans Saints (1 Viewer)

[Sabertooth]

I find it humorous that people talk of Foster like he's got anywhere near the talent of Ingram.

 

[nysportsfan]

Not sure this was mentioned (or Ingram even did much of this in college) but what was the verdict on his pass blocking skills? In this offense, it will be extremely important to know when, and be able to successfully, stick his nose in there to protect Brees. I love Ingram, but it might be November before that all falls into place. I don't know whether I want to reach for him in a redraft.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think Bush > Sproles but the little guy was brought in to fill that pass catching role. I still like Ingram a lot this season though. I think swapping Sproles for Bush was a net positive for Ingram.

 

[greggorymac]

Does anybody know what % (if any) of 1st team snaps Ingram is taking in practice right now?

 

[LC512]

I think Bush > Sproles but the little guy was brought in to fill that pass catching role. I still like Ingram a lot this season though. I think swapping Sproles for Bush was a net positive for Ingram.

I don't think so. Sproles can at least stay healthy. As a fan the backfield is great. For fantasy it's a total mess and I'll be avoiding it completely. The only reason any one back got close to 20 carries in any given game last year was because of attrition with Reggie, Pierre, Ivory, and every warm body RB we had going down to injury. Nobody's sniffing 1,000 yards in this backfield.They're going to run it more this year but they're not suddenly turning into the Browns. 380 rushes last year, even if you assume 420 this year:40 or so between Brees/WR/FB (around 10% like last year)Leaves 380I'm trying not to "win the point" so the below numbers are fairly conservative for the other backs. I think you'll see more carries for PT/Sproles/Ivory/riff raff than I'm estimating.Sproles will be close to the 5 carries per game Reggie got in the last two years. Somewhere around 70 carriesThomas gets between 8 and 9 carries per game under Payton. Even paring that back a bit he's going to get around 100-120 carriesIvory is almost positively sticking around, he'll get a few carries a game, call it 40.That leaves Ingram at 170 carries or so, assumign no other riff raff gets carries. And I think that's being slightly generous. Only way he puts up numbers that I'd want to start in a fantasy lineup at any given point is if he absolutely blows up. And being a rookie in a shortened offseason in a pass-first team doesn't bode well for that.RB is a mess. Graham's hype is surpassing his ceiling at this point (as is Meachem's). Only Saints worth drafting near where they're going, IMO, are Brees and Colston.

 

[DaMenace18]

I think Bush > Sproles but the little guy was brought in to fill that pass catching role. I still like Ingram a lot this season though. I think swapping Sproles for Bush was a net positive for Ingram.

I don't think so. Sproles can at least stay healthy. As a fan the backfield is great. For fantasy it's a total mess and I'll be avoiding it completely. The only reason any one back got close to 20 carries in any given game last year was because of attrition with Reggie, Pierre, Ivory, and every warm body RB we had going down to injury. Nobody's sniffing 1,000 yards in this backfield.They're going to run it more this year but they're not suddenly turning into the Browns. 380 rushes last year, even if you assume 420 this year:40 or so between Brees/WR/FB (around 10% like last year)Leaves 380I'm trying not to "win the point" so the below numbers are fairly conservative for the other backs. I think you'll see more carries for PT/Sproles/Ivory/riff raff than I'm estimating.Sproles will be close to the 5 carries per game Reggie got in the last two years. Somewhere around 70 carriesThomas gets between 8 and 9 carries per game under Payton. Even paring that back a bit he's going to get around 100-120 carriesIvory is almost positively sticking around, he'll get a few carries a game, call it 40.That leaves Ingram at 170 carries or so, assumign no other riff raff gets carries. And I think that's being slightly generous. Only way he puts up numbers that I'd want to start in a fantasy lineup at any given point is if he absolutely blows up. And being a rookie in a shortened offseason in a pass-first team doesn't bode well for that.RB is a mess. Graham's hype is surpassing his ceiling at this point (as is Meachem's). Only Saints worth drafting near where they're going, IMO, are Brees and Colston.

Good post. You defiantly brought this thread back down to earth. lol I want to believe that Ingram is a 1100 yard back with 10 tds but the shot of that happening is slim.

 

[LC512]

I think Bush > Sproles but the little guy was brought in to fill that pass catching role. I still like Ingram a lot this season though. I think swapping Sproles for Bush was a net positive for Ingram.

I don't think so. Sproles can at least stay healthy. As a fan the backfield is great. For fantasy it's a total mess and I'll be avoiding it completely. The only reason any one back got close to 20 carries in any given game last year was because of attrition with Reggie, Pierre, Ivory, and every warm body RB we had going down to injury.

Nobody's sniffing 1,000 yards in this backfield.

They're going to run it more this year but they're not suddenly turning into the Browns. 380 rushes last year, even if you assume 420 this year:

40 or so between Brees/WR/FB (around 10% like last year)

Leaves 380

I'm trying not to "win the point" so the below numbers are fairly conservative for the other backs. I think you'll see more carries for PT/Sproles/Ivory/riff raff than I'm estimating.

Sproles will be close to the 5 carries per game Reggie got in the last two years. Somewhere around 70 carries

Thomas gets between 8 and 9 carries per game under Payton. Even paring that back a bit he's going to get around 100-120 carries

Ivory is almost positively sticking around, he'll get a few carries a game, call it 40.

That leaves Ingram at 170 carries or so, assumign no other riff raff gets carries. And I think that's being slightly generous. Only way he puts up numbers that I'd want to start in a fantasy lineup at any given point is if he absolutely blows up. And being a rookie in a shortened offseason in a pass-first team doesn't bode well for that.

RB is a mess. Graham's hype is surpassing his ceiling at this point (as is Meachem's). Only Saints worth drafting near where they're going, IMO, are Brees and Colston.

Good post. You defiantly brought this thread back down to earth. lol

I want to believe that Ingram is a 1100 yard back with 10 tds but the shot of that happening is slim.

I have high hopes for him as a player for my team, but not as a fantasy player. I mean, he could come in and light the field on fire and force Payton to start him, but being the type of back he is, Payton's propensity for committee backfield, and the fact that we know he likes the other backs we have, I see it being a long shot.I had a similar discussion last year where I thought people were crazy for taking PT in the 2nd/3rd round. The Saints' situation gives fantasy players stars in their eyes but in the end the offense is too balanced for anyone to have much value compared to draft position. Really irritates me because I never end up with any Saints on my team. But as a fan it's fantastic watching our offense.

Looks like he's being drafted around guys like D. williams, F. Jones, J. Best, Moreno, Greene, R. Matthews. Those guys have similar floors to Ingram and much higher ceilings (as fantasy players), IMO.

I'm speaking strictly redraft. Dynasty I'd say full speed ahead on Ingram. He's likely to be a beast sooner than later, but I just don't think it's next year. I'd absolutely love to be wrong, because if I am, it means he came in and tore it up so much that Payton can't keep him off the field, which means good things for my team.

PS - I don't see a lot of blowouts where he could be grinding out clock on the schedule either: http://www.neworleanssaints.com/schedule/2011-interactive-schedule.html

 

[RBM]

Sproles will be close to the 5 carries per game Reggie got in the last two years. Somewhere around 70 carriesThomas gets between 8 and 9 carries per game under Payton. Even paring that back a bit he's going to get around 100-120 carriesIvory is almost positively sticking around, he'll get a few carries a game, call it 40.That leaves Ingram at 170 carries or so, assumign no other riff raff gets carries. And I think that's being slightly generous.

I have a problem with these #s. No way are those 3 combining for almost 20 carries a game, if Ingram is the "starter". If Ingram looks good and can pass protect and is the starter, I could see him getting between 15-18 a game and then maybe 7-10 for 2 of the other 3, combined.Just my take.

 

[Sabertooth]

You make great points. And I really appreciate the opposing viewpoint. The thing I come back to is the fact that they traded up to get Ingram. They gave up a second and a first to get him. They've never made a commitment to a back like that before. Even Reggie Bush simply fell to them, they didn't trade up for him. They subsequently sent Reggie Bush packing, and he knew it as soon as the pick was made.

If Ingram is as good as Payton thinks he is, he will have 1000 yards this season. I think Payton is one of the best coaches around and I think he made a 700 yard rusher out of scrub Chris Ivory last season. Ingram is a whole different animal. If you project Ivory out for 16 games you get almost 900 yards and about 7 touchdowns. Is it really that much of a stretch to say that Ingram could come in and average 10 more yards a game? Ivory wasn't even drafted was he?

 

[DaMenace18]

You make great points. And I really appreciate the opposing viewpoint. The thing I come back to is the fact that they traded up to get Ingram. They gave up a second and a first to get him. They've never made a commitment to a back like that before. Even Reggie Bush simply fell to them, they didn't trade up for him. They subsequently sent Reggie Bush packing, and he knew it as soon as the pick was made. If Ingram is as good as Payton thinks he is, he will have 1000 yards this season. I think Payton is one of the best coaches around and I think he made a 700 yard rusher out of scrub Chris Ivory last season. Ingram is a whole different animal. If you project Ivory out for 16 games you get almost 900 yards and about 7 touchdowns. Is it really that much of a stretch to say that Ingram could come in and average 10 more yards a game? Ivory wasn't even drafted was he?

 

[shader]

The problem with the theory though is that you are assuming that Payton wants a timeshare situation. The reality is that he hasn't had a stud rb and now he does. Throw history out the window. He isn't going to bench Ingram for anything other than a breather.

 

[Winning IS Everything]

I think Bush > Sproles but the little guy was brought in to fill that pass catching role. I still like Ingram a lot this season though. I think swapping Sproles for Bush was a net positive for Ingram.

I don't think so. Sproles can at least stay healthy. As a fan the backfield is great. For fantasy it's a total mess and I'll be avoiding it completely. The only reason any one back got close to 20 carries in any given game last year was because of attrition with Reggie, Pierre, Ivory, and every warm body RB we had going down to injury. Nobody's sniffing 1,000 yards in this backfield.They're going to run it more this year but they're not suddenly turning into the Browns. 380 rushes last year, even if you assume 420 this year:40 or so between Brees/WR/FB (around 10% like last year)Leaves 380I'm trying not to "win the point" so the below numbers are fairly conservative for the other backs. I think you'll see more carries for PT/Sproles/Ivory/riff raff than I'm estimating.Sproles will be close to the 5 carries per game Reggie got in the last two years. Somewhere around 70 carriesThomas gets between 8 and 9 carries per game under Payton. Even paring that back a bit he's going to get around 100-120 carriesIvory is almost positively sticking around, he'll get a few carries a game, call it 40.That leaves Ingram at 170 carries or so, assumign no other riff raff gets carries. And I think that's being slightly generous. Only way he puts up numbers that I'd want to start in a fantasy lineup at any given point is if he absolutely blows up. And being a rookie in a shortened offseason in a pass-first team doesn't bode well for that.RB is a mess. Graham's hype is surpassing his ceiling at this point (as is Meachem's). Only Saints worth drafting near where they're going, IMO, are Brees and Colston.

Good post. You defiantly brought this thread back down to earth. lol I want to believe that Ingram is a 1100 yard back with 10 tds but the shot of that happening is slim.

There is only one flaw in logic I saw with that post on a quick glance. He says FOUR RB's will get carries each game. Vary rarely can a team afford to have four RB active on a game day. Ivory is not a special teams ace so he will likely be a healthy scratch a fair amount of time. Barring Injury I can see Ingram getting a bit over 200 carries......

 

[Grahamburn]

It's so easy to spot the dynasty guys.

Why do people assume Pierre Thomas is going away? He's a veteran that knows the blocking schemes on a pass first team (even more important with the short offseason), can effectively catch the ball out of the backfield, and has been reliable in short yardage/goalline situations. Couple that with the snaps Darren Sproles is going to see and this backfield is a mess with the only value coming from someone sustaining an injury.

New Orleans moved up to get Ingram because they think he's a good player and can be their running back of the future. That doesn't mean he'll be a featured runner this season.

 

[Doug B]

Does anybody know what % (if any) of 1st team snaps Ingram is taking in practice right now?

Today is his fourth day of practice. I'm not seeing anything in the usual media indicating his 1st-team-snaps percentage ... but the Saints have held some public practices, so we can troll the Saintsreport.com forums to see if anyone's written anything about it.Ingram probably isn't running 1st team just yet. He's not as far behind as many will assume, because (1) Ingram got a playbook in April, and (2) he participated in the Saints' well-attended player-run mini-camp during the spring.

 

[Doug B]

Agree with RBM, shader, and Sabertooth above. I'd be shocked is a healthy Ingram gets less than 50% of the carries.

LC512, Ivory is going to miss much of this regular season due to his Lis Franc recovery. I'm also concerned about Pierre Thomas's body breaking down (though I know a lot of FF players don't do injury speculation).

 

[greggorymac]

Does anybody know what % (if any) of 1st team snaps Ingram is taking in practice right now?

Today is his fourth day of practice. I'm not seeing anything in the usual media indicating his 1st-team-snaps percentage ... but the Saints have held some public practices, so we can troll the Saintsreport.com forums to see if anyone's written anything about it.Ingram probably isn't running 1st team just yet. He's not as far behind as many will assume, because (1) Ingram got a playbook in April, and (2) he participated in the Saints' well-attended player-run mini-camp during the spring.

Thanks Doug B! I'll check out Saintsreport.com. Please let us know if you hear of anything on the carry split.Check this article out... http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2011/08/mark_ingram_will_make_saints_a.html

 

[Doug B]

Does anybody know what % (if any) of 1st team snaps Ingram is taking in practice right now?

I went ahead and asked this question in a SR.com thread. Short version: Mark Ingram is getting almost all of the 1st team work. Pierre Thomas is being held out of practice for now, and Ivory is still out for his Lis Franc surgery rehab.

 

[Clifford]

Ingram will start from day 1 and carry the load. Would not be surprised to see him north of 250 carries and 275 total touches by years end.

 

[Garrett]

I'll eat my fookin hat if Ingram sniffs 275 carries. Here's the thing about Payton and the Saints. No teams utilizes as many formations, plays, players. With a backfield full of healthy players, Payton will use them all in a variety of ways, in a variety of plays, out of tons of different formations. He'll use Ingram and PT back to back out of the same formation, just to screw with the DC. He'll set it up so the defense thinks they know what's coming, then BOOM...completely new wrinkle out of the same formation with the same players.Then he throw them both out there in the I formation double bunch TE's and throw a long seam route TD. Football is like chess to him and he enjoys beating the other coaches mentally as much as he does winning games. It's why they're one of my favorite offenses to watch, he's a technician he way he sets things up with misdirection and sleight of hand. And none of that includes letting the same guy tote the rock in the same plays 17 times a game. Maybe if he's the only back left standing by around week 8, otherwise there's no way I see him logging the carries necessary to live up some of these lofty projections.

That's a great point. Just look at the WR production (in a big time passing offense), it is a new guy every week getting the ball.

 

[Vicktimized]

I might just be guessing, but with the Saints having three legit rushers right now I don't see Ivory rushing back (or more accurately, they'll be careful with him). He suffered that Lis Franc injury late in the season. If I had to guess, he'll be PUP'd to start out and after 6 weeks, they'll see where they're at.

I ,make the point because while Ingram will have to share, I don't think Ivory will be an early factor in that. If I'm, wrong and he's 100% ready day one, then disregard, because he's a very good runner.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

It's so easy to spot the dynasty guys.

Why do people assume Pierre Thomas is going away? He's a veteran that knows the blocking schemes on a pass first team (even more important with the short offseason), can effectively catch the ball out of the backfield, and has been reliable in short yardage/goalline situations. Couple that with the snaps Darren Sproles is going to see and this backfield is a mess with the only value coming from someone sustaining an injury.

New Orleans moved up to get Ingram because they think he's a good player and can be their running back of the future. That doesn't mean he'll be a featured runner this season.

PT is a poor pass blocker and not reliable in short yardage situations. I'd expected Sproles, not Ingram, to be the obvious passing situation back at least to start the year.

 

[Grahamburn]

It's so easy to spot the dynasty guys.

Why do people assume Pierre Thomas is going away? He's a veteran that knows the blocking schemes on a pass first team (even more important with the short offseason), can effectively catch the ball out of the backfield, and has been reliable in short yardage/goalline situations. Couple that with the snaps Darren Sproles is going to see and this backfield is a mess with the only value coming from someone sustaining an injury.

New Orleans moved up to get Ingram because they think he's a good player and can be their running back of the future. That doesn't mean he'll be a featured runner this season.

PT is a poor pass blocker and not reliable in short yardage situations. I'd expected Sproles, not Ingram, to be the obvious passing situation back at least to start the year.

Really?

 

[TheFanatic]

Ingram will start day one. The guy will get more than 50% of the touches. The only reason a 1st round RB is eased into the offense is if they can't block. The guy will be top 10.

 

[cobalt_27]

Ingram will start day one. The guy will get more than 50% of the touches. The only reason a 1st round RB is eased into the offense is if they can't block. The guy will be top 10.

Yup. @jeffduncantp Jeff DuncanMark Ingram is coming on fast for the #Saints. He's going to be heavily involved from the get-go in the regular offense.

 

[the spanker]

Ingram will start day one. The guy will get more than 50% of the touches. The only reason a 1st round RB is eased into the offense is if they can't block. The guy will be top 10.

Yup. @jeffduncantp Jeff DuncanMark Ingram is coming on fast for the #Saints. He's going to be heavily involved from the get-go in the regular offense.

Nooooooo! I wanted this to be quiet as much as possible. Now Rotoworld is reporting it blast it! :(

 

[NBusiness]

Amidst all the talk of Payton never really having a frontline bell Cow back, I'm wondering- when he was Dallas OC wasn't he calling plays for Marion barbers biggest years or am I tripping?

 

[Sabertooth]

Amidst all the talk of Payton never really having a frontline bell Cow back, I'm wondering- when he was Dallas OC wasn't he calling plays for Marion barbers biggest years or am I tripping?

Look it up! It is probably on the innerwebs somewhere. That said I do know that the Saints ran the ball very effectively in 2009 when the won it all. Also Payton did get a 1000 yard season out of Deuce right at the end of his career.

 

[Heep]

(Rotoworld) According to the New Orleans Times-Picayune, No. 28 overall pick Mark Ingram is "coming on fast" at Saints camp and is expected to be "heavily involved" in the team's regular offense to open the season.Analysis: We'd guessed he would be, but it's notable that Ingram is already working with the first-team offense and getting a large chunk of top tailback reps. The clear-cut No. 1 fantasy rookie in this year's class, Ingram will offer double-digit touchdown potential as New Orleans' likely goal-line back. He also excels in the passing game and could make a serious run at 260-270 touches.

 

[Grahamburn]

It's so easy to spot the dynasty guys.

Why do people assume Pierre Thomas is going away? He's a veteran that knows the blocking schemes on a pass first team (even more important with the short offseason), can effectively catch the ball out of the backfield, and has been reliable in short yardage/goalline situations. Couple that with the snaps Darren Sproles is going to see and this backfield is a mess with the only value coming from someone sustaining an injury.

New Orleans moved up to get Ingram because they think he's a good player and can be their running back of the future. That doesn't mean he'll be a featured runner this season.

Time for me to backpedal.

Ingram very impressive in camp: Saints RB Mark Ingram is living up to expectations thus far in training camp, busting through the defense in team scrimmages and showing his powerful running style that he had in college. The New Orleans Times-Picayune reports that Ingram's punishing runs - including in goal-line drills - have opened eyes not only among Saints coaches but defensive teammates as well. "I can't wait to see him play (in the preseason) and see what he does against another team because in practice he's definitely flashed signs of greatness," free safety Malcolm Jenkins said. "His best attribute is he has a low center of gravity. It's hard to just run up to him and knock him off balance. He's low to the ground. A lot of the times you get the worst of the hit."

 

[CA_7]

It's so easy to spot the dynasty guys.

Why do people assume Pierre Thomas is going away? He's a veteran that knows the blocking schemes on a pass first team (even more important with the short offseason), can effectively catch the ball out of the backfield, and has been reliable in short yardage/goalline situations. Couple that with the snaps Darren Sproles is going to see and this backfield is a mess with the only value coming from someone sustaining an injury.

New Orleans moved up to get Ingram because they think he's a good player and can be their running back of the future. That doesn't mean he'll be a featured runner this season.

PT is a poor pass blocker and not reliable in short yardage situations. I'd expected Sproles, not Ingram, to be the obvious passing situation back at least to start the year.

Really?

PT was also in the doghouse with Peyton last year for an extended period of time (helped Ivory's rise) and that may have also attributed to the Saints going with Ingram in the draft.http://www.neworleansprofootball.com/2010/10/pierre-thomas-in-doghouse.html

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Ingram very impressive in camp: Saints RB Mark Ingram is living up to expectations thus far in training camp, busting through the defense in team scrimmages and showing his powerful running style that he had in college. The New Orleans Times-Picayune reports that Ingram's punishing runs - including in goal-line drills - have opened eyes not only among Saints coaches but defensive teammates as well. "I can't wait to see him play (in the preseason) and see what he does against another team because in practice he's definitely flashed signs of greatness," free safety Malcolm Jenkins said. "His best attribute is he has a low center of gravity. It's hard to just run up to him and knock him off balance. He's low to the ground. A lot of the times you get the worst of the hit."

Sounds a lot like MJD to me.

 

[shnikies]

It's so easy to spot the dynasty guys.

Why do people assume Pierre Thomas is going away? He's a veteran that knows the blocking schemes on a pass first team (even more important with the short offseason), can effectively catch the ball out of the backfield, and has been reliable in short yardage/goalline situations. Couple that with the snaps Darren Sproles is going to see and this backfield is a mess with the only value coming from someone sustaining an injury.

New Orleans moved up to get Ingram because they think he's a good player and can be their running back of the future. That doesn't mean he'll be a featured runner this season.

Time for me to backpedal.

Ingram very impressive in camp: Saints RB Mark Ingram is living up to expectations thus far in training camp, busting through the defense in team scrimmages and showing his powerful running style that he had in college. The New Orleans Times-Picayune reports that Ingram's punishing runs - including in goal-line drills - have opened eyes not only among Saints coaches but defensive teammates as well. "I can't wait to see him play (in the preseason) and see what he does against another team because in practice he's definitely flashed signs of greatness," free safety Malcolm Jenkins said. "His best attribute is he has a low center of gravity. It's hard to just run up to him and knock him off balance. He's low to the ground. A lot of the times you get the worst of the hit."

Nobody moves up in a draft to take a running back of the future, they move up to take the running back of the present. They gave Thomas backup money because he's a backup.

 

[eoMMan]

Mike Triplett of the New Orleans Times-Picayune expects Mark Ingram to "push for ... 1,000 yards and 10 touchdowns" in his rookie year.Per Triplett, Ingram is "turning heads" in Saints camp with an impressive combo of "power, shiftiness, and breakaway ability" while running with the first-team offense. With Chris Ivory (sports hernia, Lisfranc surgery) out for the foreseeable future, Ingram doesn't have a whole lot of competition for early-down carries. The 2011 Rotoworld Draft Guide projects Ingram for 218 carries, 999 yards, 24 receptions, and 13 all-purpose scores. Aug 8, 6:40 PM

BEAST.

 

[saintfool]

Nobody moves up in a draft to take a running back of the future, they move up to take the running back of the present. They gave Thomas backup money because he's a backup.

They didn't expect Ingram to be available to them. He slid in the draft, pure and simple. They re-signed PT for a fair contract based on his value - undrafted, coming off injury, in an offense that hasn't favored RBs, facing the lockout, and one among several on the Saints roster - well before the draft.

 

[Sabertooth]

Nobody moves up in a draft to take a running back of the future, they move up to take the running back of the present. They gave Thomas backup money because he's a backup.

They didn't expect Ingram to be available to them. He slid in the draft, pure and simple. They re-signed PT for a fair contract based on his value - undrafted, coming off injury, in an offense that hasn't favored RBs, facing the lockout, and one among several on the Saints roster - well before the draft.

This is pretty much what I think happened. Everything that was done with PT prior to the draft went out the window when Ingram was taken.

 

[TheFanatic]

They didn't expect Ingram to be available to them. He slid in the draft, pure and simple.

How do you know they didn't plan on taking LeShoure in the second or someone else with their second round pick? Yes, Ingram fell to them, but that doesn't mean they weren't interested in drafting a RB high.

They re-signed PT for a fair contract based on his value - undrafted, coming off injury, in an offense that hasn't favored RBs, facing the lockout, and one among several on the Saints roster - well before the draft.

A fair contract for a backup RB. They had nobody on the roster that could shoulder the load with 20 touches a game over 16 games. They paid PT like someone who couldn't do that and drafted someone they feel can carry that load. If PT was that good he would be sitting on a $12 million bonus and not a $12 million dollar total contract (although I'm not totally sure what his total contract is, but I believe the entire amount is what most bell cow RB's get as a signing bonus).

 

[Grahamburn]

I just peeked at Pierre Thomas' career stats out of curiosity. He's never had more than 147 carries in a season. I'm feeling like he's not quite the carry threat I thought he'd be.

There's all kinds of evidence leading me to believe Ingram could approach 250 carries fairly easy in 2011. I'm on board guys. Carry on.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

I just peeked at Pierre Thomas' career stats out of curiosity. He's never had more than 147 carries in a season. I'm feeling like he's not quite the carry threat I thought he'd be. There's all kinds of evidence leading me to believe Ingram could approach 250 carries fairly easy in 2011. I'm on board guys. Carry on.

You and everyone else by September. He's going to be a top 15 RB in everyone's rankings by draft time. Too much pub.

 

[saintfool]

They didn't expect Ingram to be available to them. He slid in the draft, pure and simple.

How do you know they didn't plan on taking LeShoure in the second or someone else with their second round pick? Yes, Ingram fell to them, but that doesn't mean they weren't interested in drafting a RB high.

They re-signed PT for a fair contract based on his value - undrafted, coming off injury, in an offense that hasn't favored RBs, facing the lockout, and one among several on the Saints roster - well before the draft.

A fair contract for a backup RB. They had nobody on the roster that could shoulder the load with 20 touches a game over 16 games. They paid PT like someone who couldn't do that and drafted someone they feel can carry that load. If PT was that good he would be sitting on a $12 million bonus and not a $12 million dollar total contract (although I'm not totally sure what his total contract is, but I believe the entire amount is what most bell cow RB's get as a signing bonus).

i'm only going on what the GM Mickey Loomis said. i'm not willing traffic in hypotheticals, largely because i don't see it as germane. last year was a disaster at the position and i doubt they were willing to stand pat. that said, i'm not sure any RB in the draft - aside from Ingram - could have supplanted PT as the starter this year. they wanted ingram when it looked like he could become available, pure and simple. they could have had him earlier in the draft but opted for a different player and position. he still would have been tremendous value where they got their DE.as far as PT's contract goes, i'm convinced he was paid for what his value was to the team when he signed the contract and not what his value became. the saints no longer overpay for players, especially with the recent success of the franchise. i've put enough qualifiers to PT's value to make $12 over 4 years seem like it's about right.

 

[Concept Coop]

I find it humorous that people talk of Foster like he's got anywhere near the talent of Ingram.

 

[Sabertooth]

I find it humorous that people talk of Foster like he's got anywhere near the talent of Ingram.

 

[Concept Coop]

I find it humorous that people talk of Foster like he's got anywhere near the talent of Ingram.

It is a ridiculous comment. Arian Foster dominated the league last year. Football is about production. Arian Foster is as equipped as just about any to produce for his football team. Claiming a rookie is Cleary more talented is ridiculous. Mark Ingram was a late 1st round pick - we are not talking about Adrian Peterson - who, himself, has yet to have a year on par with what Foster just did.

 

[Sabertooth]

I find it humorous that people talk of Foster like he's got anywhere near the talent of Ingram.

It is a ridiculous comment. Arian Foster dominated the league last year. Football is about production. Arian Foster is as equipped as just about any to produce for his football team. Claiming a rookie is Cleary more talented is ridiculous. Mark Ingram was a late 1st round pick - we are not talking about Adrian Peterson - who, himself, has yet to have a year on par with what Foster just did.

Arian Foster is not as talented as Mark Ingram. When was Arian Foster drafted, since YOU bring up draft slot.

 

[valhallan]

i'm only going on what the GM Mickey Loomis said. i'm not willing traffic in hypotheticals, largely because i don't see it as germane. last year was a disaster at the position and i doubt they were willing to stand pat. that said, i'm not sure any RB in the draft - aside from Ingram - could have supplanted PT as the starter this year. they wanted ingram when it looked like he could become available, pure and simple. they could have had him earlier in the draft but opted for a different player and position. he still would have been tremendous value where they got their DE.

Total speculation, but given Mickey's ability to gauge the draft, I think he probably expected Ingram may make that slide through the 20s of the 1st round. NE is always a willing trade partner, so he jumped when it got to them. I could see Mickey believing that could happen before it did.

 

[Concept Coop]

I find it humorous that people talk of Foster like he's got anywhere near the talent of Ingram.

It is a ridiculous comment. Arian Foster dominated the league last year. Football is about production. Arian Foster is as equipped as just about any to produce for his football team. Claiming a rookie is Cleary more talented is ridiculous. Mark Ingram was a late 1st round pick - we are not talking about Adrian Peterson - who, himself, has yet to have a year on par with what Foster just did.

Arian Foster is not as talented as Mark Ingram. When was Arian Foster drafted, since YOU bring up draft slot.

Arian Foster wasn't drafted. What percent of backs drafted in the first round do anything close to what Foster did - even once?

 

[Sabertooth]

I find it humorous that people talk of Foster like he's got anywhere near the talent of Ingram.

It is a ridiculous comment. Arian Foster dominated the league last year. Football is about production. Arian Foster is as equipped as just about any to produce for his football team. Claiming a rookie is Cleary more talented is ridiculous. Mark Ingram was a late 1st round pick - we are not talking about Adrian Peterson - who, himself, has yet to have a year on par with what Foster just did.

Arian Foster is not as talented as Mark Ingram. When was Arian Foster drafted, since YOU bring up draft slot.

Arian Foster wasn't drafted. What percent of backs drafted in the first round do anything close to what Foster did - even once?

Define even close, then look it up. You brought up draft slot, not me.

 

[Concept Coop]

Define even close, then look it up. You brought up draft slot, not me.

Let's remove draft slot from the conversation. What aspects of the Ingram's game are so vastly superior that he is clearly more talented than the NFL's leading rusher in both yards and TDs?I myself was slow to the Foster party. But this is ridiculous. Ingram is Beanie Wells/Knowshon Moreno 3 years ago. No more than that until he does it at an NFL level.

 

[TheFanatic]

I find it humorous that people talk of Foster like he's got anywhere near the talent of Ingram.

It is a ridiculous comment. Arian Foster dominated the league last year. Football is about production. Arian Foster is as equipped as just about any to produce for his football team. Claiming a rookie is Cleary more talented is ridiculous. Mark Ingram was a late 1st round pick - we are not talking about Adrian Peterson - who, himself, has yet to have a year on par with what Foster just did.

Arian Foster is not as talented as Mark Ingram. When was Arian Foster drafted, since YOU bring up draft slot.

Draft slot means nothing once these guys are in the league, and even more so now with the rookie salary scale. The only thing a high draft slot guarantees is that the guy will get more opportunities to play than someone drafted low. Jamarcus Russel was drafted first overall and Kurt Warner was undrafted. Who would you rather have? Ingram has a ton of talent, but that and a quarter won't buy you a stamp. Foster has a track record, albeit just a single season, but he has shown he can do it on the field. Reggie Bush was drafted 2nd overall, but never rushed for more than 600 yards in any of his first five seasons. He won the Heisman trophy and yet still couldn't do much beyond mediocre in the NFL. Ingram still has to put on the pads and perform on Sunday against the best of the best he played against in college. To say he's more talented than Foster based on where each was drafted is downright ridiculous.

 

[Sabertooth]

Define even close, then look it up. You brought up draft slot, not me.

Let's remove draft slot from the conversation. What aspects of the Ingram's game are so vastly superior that he is clearly more talented than the NFL's leading rusher in both yards and TDs?I myself was slow to the Foster party. But this is ridiculous. Ingram is Beanie Wells/Knowshon Moreno 3 years ago. No more than that until he does it at an NFL level.

No he simply isn't. His low center of gravity, cutting ability, and vision are excellent. He's got every bit as much speed as Foster as well. He's tough to tackle, just like Foster. Foster is a good player. He's simply a better player. Foster is a good player in a great situation. How was Slaton able to muster the numbers he did in that system? Because it is the system, not the back.

 

[Sabertooth]

Draft slot means nothing once these guys are in the league, and even more so now with the rookie salary scale. The only thing a high draft slot guarantees is that the guy will get more opportunities to play than someone drafted low. Jamarcus Russel was drafted first overall and Kurt Warner was undrafted. Who would you rather have? Ingram has a ton of talent, but that and a quarter won't buy you a stamp. Foster has a track record, albeit just a single season, but he has shown he can do it on the field. Reggie Bush was drafted 2nd overall, but never rushed for more than 600 yards in any of his first five seasons. He won the Heisman trophy and yet still couldn't do much beyond mediocre in the NFL. Ingram still has to put on the pads and perform on Sunday against the best of the best he played against in college. To say he's more talented than Foster based on where each was drafted is downright ridiculous.

To say a player can't have talent until they produce is just....I don't know...silly I guess? If Foster had so much talent, why wasn't he drafted? Are you suggesting that the entire draft process is simply luck and folly? Why do some guys get picked and others not?