Mark Ingram (4 Viewers)

[Otis]

Hopefully nobody in here is (over)reacting too favorably to Ingram's game a week ago against a terrible Green Bay run defense.

He's been playing this well for a year now, so no, nobody is overreacting to a single game.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Hopefully nobody in here is (over)reacting too favorably to Ingram's game a week ago against a terrible Green Bay run defense.

He's been playing this well for a year now, so no, nobody is overreacting to a single game.

Over a year? Until the past 2 weeks, he's had over 20 touches in a game exactly twice in his career. He definitely looks good of late, but his usage has still remained below what is needed for him to be a stud......except for 2 weeks when everyone else is injured.

 

[msudaisy26]

All this committee talk makes me want to shop him.

Has anyone sold him lately and what are you receiving in return.

I have him in two of my leagues and received a few offers for him between the Lions game and before the Panthers. They were all pretty poor offers in my opinion

Ingram for Rueben Randle

Ingram for a 2015 2nd, from a team that is in the playoff race

Ingram for Welker

Ingram and an early 3rd for Doug Martin

 

[godgers12]

I have Ingram in like 7 leagues all from picking him up about 4 weeks ago in anticipation of something like what is happening.

Just traded him in one league gave up Vjax and Ingram for B. Marshall.

On my way to the playoffs unless something crazy happens and have Murray, Lamar, Bradshaw, and Gore as RBs, I know its a risk with him being hobbled but I think it is worth a shot.

I have been shopping him and a WR in many of my leagues trying to buy low on Calvin, Marshall, or A.J.

 

[renesauz]

The panic is hysterical. I would be fine if he dropped from 28 carries per game down to 16-18. But the notion that he is going to be getting less then 50% of the carries (14 per game) is patently ridiculous.

Khiry will get one series each half to spell Ingram and end up with 5-10 carries depending on the pace of the game.

This. Expecting 15-18 caries per week going forward. Low end RB1 non-PPR, less then sexy RB2 in PPR. Capable of a blowup game with multiple TDs.

Could be a nice cog in a championship run, but isn't going to make or break that run on his own.

 

[Chaka]

Hopefully nobody in here is (over)reacting too favorably to Ingram's game a week ago against a terrible Green Bay run defense.

He's been playing this well for a year now, so no, nobody is overreacting to a single game.

Over a year? Until the past 2 weeks, he's had over 20 touches in a game exactly twice in his career. He definitely looks good of late, but his usage has still remained below what is needed for him to be a stud......except for 2 weeks when everyone else is injured.

How do you feel about his performance in weeks 1 & 2?

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Hopefully nobody in here is (over)reacting too favorably to Ingram's game a week ago against a terrible Green Bay run defense.

He's been playing this well for a year now, so no, nobody is overreacting to a single game.

Over a year? Until the past 2 weeks, he's had over 20 touches in a game exactly twice in his career. He definitely looks good of late, but his usage has still remained below what is needed for him to be a stud......except for 2 weeks when everyone else is injured.

How do you feel about his performance in weeks 1 & 2?

I'm a fan. He looks good and has been productive of late. My issue isn't with production - my issue is usage. Specifically, how much is realistic to expect.

 

[Adam Harstad]

So I just redid my dynasty RB rankings and Ingram wound up 12th. I wasn't really trying to do it; in fact, I thought "that can't be right" and spent 10 minutes trying to find guys I felt comfortable moving over him. But RB is terrible right now in dynasty, and there's not a dozen other guys out there who offer Ingram's mix of pedigree, current production, youth, and upside.

 

[Chaka]

Potential usage is difficult to analyze.

Looking at it game by game:

During the Atlanta game (loss) New Orleans was leading for most of the first three quarters and it went back and fourth until late in the 4th quarter. They called 27 non QB runs during that game.

At Cleveland (loss) they were trailing by a score for most of the first half then went back and forth for the third quarter and looking to take control in the fourth quarter. They called 26 non QB runs during that game.

The Minnesota (win) game was not competitive and never in doubt. 29 non QB runs.

Dallas (loss) was also never in doubt and New Orleans never had a chance. 12 non QB runs.

Vs Tampa Bay (win) New Orleans was in control until 10 minutes into the third quarter when they fell behind and it became a back and forth game. 28 non QB runs.

The Detroit game (loss) is the most confusing of the bunch. They were seemingly in control until 3:30 left in the fourth quarter when they snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory. Oddly enough (and likely not coincidentally) they only called 20 non QB runs in that game. I am guessing the game plan was to go pass heavy against Detroit's stout defensive line and when they needed to salt the game away late they weren't prepared. Either way it is odd to see so few runs called when they were leading for virtually the entire game.

The Green Bay (win) game was very competitive until the mid third before New Orleans blew it open. 30 non QB runs.

At Carolina (win) was also competitive until New Orleans began to take control in the mid/late second quarter. 33 non QB runs.

Again it is difficult to extrapolate too much from that info but it really seems that if the game is competitive or if New Orleans is in control you can expect about 28 non QB runs to be called. From what we saw the past two weeks I would expect Ingram to get between 50-60% of those carries or about 14-17 carries/game which translates to 224-272 carries on the season. So unless you expect New Orleans to be blown out regularly I think that kind of usage makes a convincing argument to start him in virtually any format. When you consider how well he has performed with the touches he has received it almost makes him an auto-start.

 

[matttyl]

ESPN Saints reporter Mike Triplett to "return to some form of timeshare" when Khiry Robinson and Pierre Thomas return from their injuries.

Robinson and Thomas have missed each of New Orleans' last two games, creating a perfect storm for Mark Ingram. Coach Sean Payton was asked following Thursday night's win over Carolina whether Ingram has earned a larger share. "Listen, he certainly is," said Payton. "Yet the key is just the durability. But he's been outstanding. I think that Sunday and then what he did last night, those are a lot of touches. And so we're gonna have to, as we get guys healthy, break those up. And yet to his credit, he's handled that workload."

This translates to - "I know we've won two games in a row for the first time since last year and we've done it feeding Ingram the rock, so now we're going to change that up." Brilliant.

Ingram owner?

Since the day I drafted him as a rookie.

 

[Redmanchu]

Khiry and Pierre both still not practicing.

All systems go....buckle up for safety....might be another week of RB1 production!

 

[Milkman]

Pretty close to selling high on him for a late first today. Owner backed out. Oh well. Maybe he goes to Indy or something next year.

 

[LionOfGosforth]

Khiry and Pierre both still not practicing.

All systems go....buckle up for safety....might be another week of RB1 production!

Don't like his matchup this week at all though it is at least at home. Anyone know if Willis is out again?

 

[cstu]

Ingram has beaten up some really bad defenses - Falcons, Browns, Packers, Panthers - and struggled (10 for 16 yards) in his only tough matchup (Lions).

 

[rickyg]

This weekend vs SF will be a stiff test. We'll see...

 

[BustedKnuckles]

i heard that SF run

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I heard that SF run D is worse on the road than at home

 

[renesauz]

Pretty close to selling high on him for a late first today. Owner backed out. Oh well. Maybe he goes to Indy or something next year.

WOuld gladly buy for a late first. I've had people offering 2's for him in several leagues where I own him. I laugh as I quickly hit "reject". I targetted this guy all summer long in every league.

 

[kencav]

This reminds me of when they Ronnie Hillman would tank versus SF earlier....

Similar situation......Elite Qb no way they stack the box......and probably no Patrick Willis again....

Isn't it interesting that the Saints defensive resurgence has coincided with a commitment to the running game, not putting in Ingram only in obvious running situations, and running the clock out effectively...

A blind man could see it....so now can Sean Payton see it?

Now 5/7 games at home including 2 against turnover prone Kap and Dalton....god he was horrendous last night against Cleveland.

Things bode well for running game....Ingrams main competition for carries.....Robinson.....rumor has it he is recovering from a broken forearm...

Stay healthy Mark....we are counting on you and free agency looms.

 

[petenice15]

I just hope Patrick Willis doesn't play this week

 

[mphtrilogy]

even if they give khry some carries, ingram should be on target for 20.

hes been so good, that he can get 100 and 1 td on 20 with robinson getting 8-10 carries as well

the biggest concern would be p thomas, cutting in on some as well, but I don't think hes back this week..

let's go!

 

[unckeyherb]

It doesn't sound like Either Pierre or Robinson are coming back. Rotoworld is speculating a broken arm for Khiry.

 

[Insein]

People bash Payton but he knows how to coach offense. The guy was asjusting from a throw first, throw often scheme back to a power run game on the fly when the key cog was out for 4 weeks. We've seen what he's done now that Ingram is back. He's fed him consistently. Ingram's presence opens up so many things for Brees that defense were not allowing before.

Payton knows what he's doing people. Ingram will get 18-25 carries every week until the wheels fall off.

 

[humpback]

People bash Payton but he knows how to coach offense. The guy was asjusting from a throw first, throw often scheme back to a power run game on the fly when the key cog was out for 4 weeks. We've seen what he's done now that Ingram is back. He's fed him consistently. Ingram's presence opens up so many things for Brees that defense were not allowing before.

Payton knows what he's doing people. Ingram will get 18-25 carries every week until the wheels fall off.

What is this adjustment you speak of?

All we've seen is what he's done when Ingram is in and both Thomas and Khiry are out. I hope you're right, but we really have no idea how he's going to handle things if/when everyone comes back.

 

[JFS171]

Pretty close to selling high on him for a late first today. Owner backed out. Oh well. Maybe he goes to Indy or something next year.

I'd personally need much more for a 24-year old who has a first round pedigree and is showing the signs of *why* he was so highly valued in the draft... especially when that RB is peaking at present with an opportunity to be the guy, and is a FA next year and can pick his landing spot. To me, that's more valuable than a random first, and absolutely more valuable than a late first.

I'm hoping for Atlanta, who desperately needs a running game to keep that passing game humming.

 

[fantasy stud]

Love him, but I think Im starting Ellington and Lacey this week over him.

 

[valhallan]

People bash Payton but he knows how to coach offense. The guy was asjusting from a throw first, throw often scheme back to a power run game on the fly when the key cog was out for 4 weeks. We've seen what he's done now that Ingram is back. He's fed him consistently. Ingram's presence opens up so many things for Brees that defense were not allowing before.

Payton knows what he's doing people. Ingram will get 18-25 carries every week until the wheels fall off.

What is this adjustment you speak of?

All we've seen is what he's done when Ingram is in and both Thomas and Khiry are out. I hope you're right, but we really have no idea how he's going to handle things if/when everyone comes back.

We have an idea. That's what people who watch this team have been trying to add to the discussion. We don't have 100% proof, though, since the future hasn't happened.

 

[John 14:6]

Love him, but I think Im starting Ellington and Lacey this week over him.

Yeah, I've also got Lacy in ahead of him, with Murray as my other starter...

 

[humpback]

People bash Payton but he knows how to coach offense. The guy was asjusting from a throw first, throw often scheme back to a power run game on the fly when the key cog was out for 4 weeks. We've seen what he's done now that Ingram is back. He's fed him consistently. Ingram's presence opens up so many things for Brees that defense were not allowing before.

Payton knows what he's doing people. Ingram will get 18-25 carries every week until the wheels fall off.

What is this adjustment you speak of?

All we've seen is what he's done when Ingram is in and both Thomas and Khiry are out. I hope you're right, but we really have no idea how he's going to handle things if/when everyone comes back.

We have an idea. That's what people who watch this team have been trying to add to the discussion. We don't have 100% proof, though, since the future hasn't happened.

You can knock off the "I watch the games" schtick- it adds nothing to the discussion, especially considering how ridiculous some of your posts have been.

Fact- the Saints have played 3 games this season where Ingram, Thomas, and Robinson have all been active, and Ingram hasn't reached 50% of the RB touches in any of those 3 games. It's certainly possible he is the bell-cow when they come back, but that would be the first time it's happened all year. He mentioned adjusting away from a pass heavy offense while Ingram was out (which was only 3 weeks, not 4)- that didn't happen either.

 

[I Am the Stig]

It doesn't sound like Either Pierre or Robinson are coming back. Rotoworld is speculating a broken arm for Khiry.

But he said it was just a "boo boo" the week it happened.

 

[Milkman]

For all we know Payton is keeping Khiry out to rest him up because he's going to ride him late into the season and the playoffs. lol With Payton you never know.

 

[Insein]

For all we know Payton is keeping Khiry out to rest him up because he's going to ride him late into the season and the playoffs. lol With Payton you never know.

Yep and Arians is a moron with his use of Ellington. Has no idea how to coach.Did we ever think maybe Paytons use of his RBs the last 3 years is due a bit to the fact that he hasn't had one emerge as a legit RB1? There hasn't been a stretch of back to back dominating games (carries and production) from a NO RB since Deuce McAlister was there. We don't have a track record on what he'll do for this situation in recent years but we can look back to the Deuce years and see that he used the power back effectively when it was an option.

This is what Payton drafted Ingram for. He wanted him to be Deuce part deux. Now that its finally happening, people think he wants to go back to a committee?

 

[valhallan]

People bash Payton but he knows how to coach offense. The guy was asjusting from a throw first, throw often scheme back to a power run game on the fly when the key cog was out for 4 weeks. We've seen what he's done now that Ingram is back. He's fed him consistently. Ingram's presence opens up so many things for Brees that defense were not allowing before.

Payton knows what he's doing people. Ingram will get 18-25 carries every week until the wheels fall off.

What is this adjustment you speak of?

All we've seen is what he's done when Ingram is in and both Thomas and Khiry are out. I hope you're right, but we really have no idea how he's going to handle things if/when everyone comes back.

We have an idea. That's what people who watch this team have been trying to add to the discussion. We don't have 100% proof, though, since the future hasn't happened.

You can knock off the "I watch the games" schtick- it adds nothing to the discussion, especially considering how ridiculous some of your posts have been.

Fact- the Saints have played 3 games this season where Ingram, Thomas, and Robinson have all been active, and Ingram hasn't reached 50% of the RB touches in any of those 3 games. It's certainly possible he is the bell-cow when they come back, but that would be the first time it's happened all year. He mentioned adjusting away from a pass heavy offense while Ingram was out (which was only 3 weeks, not 4)- that didn't happen either.

My posts have been accurate and are about a topic I'm more familiar with than you are. I'm sure you'd have better insight on whatever team you watch closely.

For all we know Payton is keeping Khiry out to rest him up because he's going to ride him late into the season and the playoffs. lol With Payton you never know.

Yep and Arians is a moron with his use of Ellington. Has no idea how to coach.Did we ever think maybe Paytons use of his RBs the last 3 years is due a bit to the fact that he hasn't had one emerge as a legit RB1? There hasn't been a stretch of back to back dominating games (carries and production) from a NO RB since Deuce McAlister was there. We don't have a track record on what he'll do for this situation in recent years but we can look back to the Deuce years and see that he used the power back effectively when it was an option.

This is what Payton drafted Ingram for. He wanted him to be Deuce part deux. Now that its finally happening, people think he wants to go back to a committee?

And this is so amazingly obvious I can't believe we have to convince people of it.

 

[rickyg]

For all we know Payton is keeping Khiry out to rest him up because he's going to ride him late into the season and the playoffs. lol With Payton you never know.

Yep and Arians is a moron with his use of Ellington. Has no idea how to coach.Did we ever think maybe Paytons use of his RBs the last 3 years is due a bit to the fact that he hasn't had one emerge as a legit RB1? There hasn't been a stretch of back to back dominating games (carries and production) from a NO RB since Deuce McAlister was there. We don't have a track record on what he'll do for this situation in recent years but we can look back to the Deuce years and see that he used the power back effectively when it was an option.

This is what Payton drafted Ingram for. He wanted him to be Deuce part deux. Now that its finally happening, people think he wants to go back to a committee?

Arians has no idea how to coach? Doesn't Arizona have the best record in the nfl or one of the best? How can you say that? Lol

 

[humpback]

People bash Payton but he knows how to coach offense. The guy was asjusting from a throw first, throw often scheme back to a power run game on the fly when the key cog was out for 4 weeks. We've seen what he's done now that Ingram is back. He's fed him consistently. Ingram's presence opens up so many things for Brees that defense were not allowing before.

Payton knows what he's doing people. Ingram will get 18-25 carries every week until the wheels fall off.

What is this adjustment you speak of?

All we've seen is what he's done when Ingram is in and both Thomas and Khiry are out. I hope you're right, but we really have no idea how he's going to handle things if/when everyone comes back.

We have an idea. That's what people who watch this team have been trying to add to the discussion. We don't have 100% proof, though, since the future hasn't happened.

You can knock off the "I watch the games" schtick- it adds nothing to the discussion, especially considering how ridiculous some of your posts have been.

Fact- the Saints have played 3 games this season where Ingram, Thomas, and Robinson have all been active, and Ingram hasn't reached 50% of the RB touches in any of those 3 games. It's certainly possible he is the bell-cow when they come back, but that would be the first time it's happened all year. He mentioned adjusting away from a pass heavy offense while Ingram was out (which was only 3 weeks, not 4)- that didn't happen either.

My posts have been accurate and are about a topic I'm more familiar with than you are. I'm sure you'd have better insight on whatever team you watch closely.

Your posts have been anything but accurate. It's possible you have watched them play more than I, but it's clearly not doing any good if you're drawing the conclusions you have drawn. Besides, you don't need to have watched a single play to know that they haven't "ridden him" ever since he started playing well last post-season.

 

[humpback]

For all we know Payton is keeping Khiry out to rest him up because he's going to ride him late into the season and the playoffs. lol With Payton you never know.

Yep and Arians is a moron with his use of Ellington. Has no idea how to coach.Did we ever think maybe Paytons use of his RBs the last 3 years is due a bit to the fact that he hasn't had one emerge as a legit RB1? There hasn't been a stretch of back to back dominating games (carries and production) from a NO RB since Deuce McAlister was there. We don't have a track record on what he'll do for this situation in recent years but we can look back to the Deuce years and see that he used the power back effectively when it was an option.

This is what Payton drafted Ingram for. He wanted him to be Deuce part deux. Now that its finally happening, people think he wants to go back to a committee?

I posted this up thread, but Ingram has had good games in the past. The reason he hasn't put together back to back good games is because Payton hasn't given him enough touches the following game for some reason. This is the first time he has, but it's possible that's because the only other option was a guy with 4 career carries.

You may want to re-check the years McAlister was there under Payton.

 

[Insein]

For all we know Payton is keeping Khiry out to rest him up because he's going to ride him late into the season and the playoffs. lol With Payton you never know.

Yep and Arians is a moron with his use of Ellington. Has no idea how to coach.Did we ever think maybe Paytons use of his RBs the last 3 years is due a bit to the fact that he hasn't had one emerge as a legit RB1? There hasn't been a stretch of back to back dominating games (carries and production) from a NO RB since Deuce McAlister was there. We don't have a track record on what he'll do for this situation in recent years but we can look back to the Deuce years and see that he used the power back effectively when it was an option.

This is what Payton drafted Ingram for. He wanted him to be Deuce part deux. Now that its finally happening, people think he wants to go back to a committee?

I posted this up thread, but Ingram has had good games in the past. The reason he hasn't put together back to back good games is because Payton hasn't given him enough touches the following game for some reason. This is the first time he has, but it's possible that's because the only other option was a guy with 4 career carries.You may want to re-check the years McAlister was there under Payton.

2006, 244 carries for 1056-10. After that he was done but the idea was there.

 

[Milkman]

Should be fun in here if Khiry gets more carries than Ingram in a couple weeks. Not saying it's going to happen just saying it's possible.

 

[humpback]

For all we know Payton is keeping Khiry out to rest him up because he's going to ride him late into the season and the playoffs. lol With Payton you never know.

Yep and Arians is a moron with his use of Ellington. Has no idea how to coach.Did we ever think maybe Paytons use of his RBs the last 3 years is due a bit to the fact that he hasn't had one emerge as a legit RB1? There hasn't been a stretch of back to back dominating games (carries and production) from a NO RB since Deuce McAlister was there. We don't have a track record on what he'll do for this situation in recent years but we can look back to the Deuce years and see that he used the power back effectively when it was an option.

This is what Payton drafted Ingram for. He wanted him to be Deuce part deux. Now that its finally happening, people think he wants to go back to a committee?

I posted this up thread, but Ingram has had good games in the past. The reason he hasn't put together back to back good games is because Payton hasn't given him enough touches the following game for some reason. This is the first time he has, but it's possible that's because the only other option was a guy with 4 career carries.You may want to re-check the years McAlister was there under Payton.

2006, 244 carries for 1056-10. After that he was done but the idea was there.

You said years, plural, and in the only year McCalister was relevant under Payton, he got 277 touches to 243 for the rookie Bush.

Sean Payton has never "ridden" one RB- not with the Giants, Cowboys, or the Saints.

 

[valhallan]

People bash Payton but he knows how to coach offense. The guy was asjusting from a throw first, throw often scheme back to a power run game on the fly when the key cog was out for 4 weeks. We've seen what he's done now that Ingram is back. He's fed him consistently. Ingram's presence opens up so many things for Brees that defense were not allowing before.

Payton knows what he's doing people. Ingram will get 18-25 carries every week until the wheels fall off.

What is this adjustment you speak of?

All we've seen is what he's done when Ingram is in and both Thomas and Khiry are out. I hope you're right, but we really have no idea how he's going to handle things if/when everyone comes back.

We have an idea. That's what people who watch this team have been trying to add to the discussion. We don't have 100% proof, though, since the future hasn't happened.

You can knock off the "I watch the games" schtick- it adds nothing to the discussion, especially considering how ridiculous some of your posts have been.

Fact- the Saints have played 3 games this season where Ingram, Thomas, and Robinson have all been active, and Ingram hasn't reached 50% of the RB touches in any of those 3 games. It's certainly possible he is the bell-cow when they come back, but that would be the first time it's happened all year. He mentioned adjusting away from a pass heavy offense while Ingram was out (which was only 3 weeks, not 4)- that didn't happen either.

My posts have been accurate and are about a topic I'm more familiar with than you are. I'm sure you'd have better insight on whatever team you watch closely.

Your posts have been anything but accurate. It's possible you have watched them play more than I, but it's clearly not doing any good if you're drawing the conclusions you have drawn. Besides, you don't need to have watched a single play to know that they haven't "ridden him" ever since he started playing well last post-season.

I explained why that Dallas game was not the same Ingram we see now. On every play in that video, he went down when the first defender touched him. It just so happened that was often 10-15 yards down field. This year he's making 2 guys miss on many of his runs and he's clearly a different back.

Honest question - what do you think Payton drafted him for?

 

[humpback]

People bash Payton but he knows how to coach offense. The guy was asjusting from a throw first, throw often scheme back to a power run game on the fly when the key cog was out for 4 weeks. We've seen what he's done now that Ingram is back. He's fed him consistently. Ingram's presence opens up so many things for Brees that defense were not allowing before.

Payton knows what he's doing people. Ingram will get 18-25 carries every week until the wheels fall off.

What is this adjustment you speak of?

All we've seen is what he's done when Ingram is in and both Thomas and Khiry are out. I hope you're right, but we really have no idea how he's going to handle things if/when everyone comes back.

We have an idea. That's what people who watch this team have been trying to add to the discussion. We don't have 100% proof, though, since the future hasn't happened.

You can knock off the "I watch the games" schtick- it adds nothing to the discussion, especially considering how ridiculous some of your posts have been.

Fact- the Saints have played 3 games this season where Ingram, Thomas, and Robinson have all been active, and Ingram hasn't reached 50% of the RB touches in any of those 3 games. It's certainly possible he is the bell-cow when they come back, but that would be the first time it's happened all year. He mentioned adjusting away from a pass heavy offense while Ingram was out (which was only 3 weeks, not 4)- that didn't happen either.

My posts have been accurate and are about a topic I'm more familiar with than you are. I'm sure you'd have better insight on whatever team you watch closely.

Your posts have been anything but accurate. It's possible you have watched them play more than I, but it's clearly not doing any good if you're drawing the conclusions you have drawn. Besides, you don't need to have watched a single play to know that they haven't "ridden him" ever since he started playing well last post-season.

I explained why that Dallas game was not the same Ingram we see now. On every play in that video, he went down when the first defender touched him. It just so happened that was often 10-15 yards down field. This year he's making 2 guys miss on many of his runs and he's clearly a different back.

Honest question - what do you think Payton drafted him for?

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about- not only are you attempting to change the subject, but you're also dead wrong about your new subject. You do not have to go any further than the 1st carry (and the 2nd, and...) in the video to find him not going down when the first defender touched him, yet you keep spouting things that are just plain false.

I guess that's why "fan" is short for "fanatic"- it doesn't matter how often you watch them play when you aren't seeing what is actually happening.

 

[valhallan]

Oh yeah, he sure made that guy miss. Went -1 yards after contact. Just amazing stuff there.

I don't know why you're being so belligerent about this. Every last Saints fan on the planet will tell you Ingram flat out SUCKED the last 3 years and that's why he wasn't used. The Dallas game is so irrelevant it's comical we're even talking about it.

I noticed you avoided my question. The answer is he drafted a power back intending to use him as such. He wasn't good, so he didn't get work. Now he is good, so he's getting work. It's so simple.

Do you want 20 carries a game? Is that what you're hung up on? I can't figure it out at this point.

 

[humpback]

Oh yeah, he sure made that guy miss. Went -1 yards after contact. Just amazing stuff there.

I don't know why you're being so belligerent about this. Every last Saints fan on the planet will tell you Ingram flat out SUCKED the last 3 years and that's why he wasn't used. The Dallas game is so irrelevant it's comical we're even talking about it.

I noticed you avoided my question. The answer is he drafted a power back intending to use him as such. He wasn't good, so he didn't get work. Now he is good, so he's getting work. It's so simple.

Do you want 20 carries a game? Is that what you're hung up on? I can't figure it out at this point.

Wait, I though you said he went down when the first defender touched him on every play in that video? Now you're saying that didn't happen on the very first carry (and the 2nd, and...watch the rest, there are more)?

WTF are you talking about? All I said was that you don't need to watch the games to know that they haven't ridden him ever since he started playing well last post season (in case you forgot, the post season was after the Dallas game). You brought the Dallas game up, I just pointed out how you are 100% dead wrong about that as well- common theme with you.

I love your at the McAllister comments- for such a huge fan, you must have forgotten that he only had one okay year under Payton, and even in that year he barely got 50% of the RB touches and was 19th in the league in carries- workhorse! That's his best year under Payton (by far). Of course, I don't need to tell you that, because you're a huge fan.

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Gonna ride Ingram for another week. I think he will continue to produce as long as Thomas and Khiry are out. What other choice does Payton have?

 

[valhallan]

Again, I don't know why you're so belligerent about this. My assertion was that Ingram was not running the same way in the Dallas game, which you used as evidence of Payton refusing to feed him after a big game. Is it just the terms 'ridden' and 'workhorse'? Those bothered you that much? What are we even talking about here?

No one can predict the future. All we can do is take what we've seen and make educated guesses. No running back is guaranteed 20 carries a game, especially with the current passing climate. In fact despite my thinking that Payton wants to lean on Ingram, I'd definitely be surprised if he averages over 20 carries a game from here on out. Brees is turning it over too much and the defense still isn't quite where it needs to be. This team nearly lost to Tampa Bay - it wouldn't shock me at all if they get blasted by some team soon.

However I would be very surprised if we see a game where the Saints are not getting killed, Ingram is healthy, and he's just sitting on the sideline not being used - a scenario which happened a lot his first 3 years because nearly every time he got in the game, he ran like a timid loser. Even the Dallas game didn't fool many people - it warranted only a few posts in this 75 page thread.

The was for Insein basically repeating what I said last week about Ingram being drafted to be used like this. This is the guy Payton wanted when he spent a first round pick on him. That guy didn't exist until very late last year, which happened to be when Khiry had also been running well and Payton had Parcells in his ear telling him to run Robinson more (I suspect Khiry played a big part in Mark figuring things out, actually). This season Mark has been in the game plan from the go, a very different game plan than what us Saints fans are used to seeing year in and year out. FWIW, I've not said anything about McAllister in this thread. However he's definitely the last back Payton had with any workhorse-type ability. The rest of the guys - Mike Bell, Ivory, Thomas, Sproles, Bush, Aaron Stecker - were never going to fill that role so he didn't bother trying to make them fill it with any sort of consistency. Except in 2010 when he tried to lean on Pierre, who broke down twice, including just before the playoffs where the Saints suffered that embarrassing loss in Seattle. The Saints had to rely on Julius Jones, who was so washed up he never saw the field again after that season. A few months later Payton drafted Ingram.

OK, now go ahead and hunt for a word I used that you don't like so you can invalidate the entire post.

 

[humpback]

A pet peeve of mine is when people use the "I'm a big fan/watch the games" line to try and act as if they have credibility and know more than they actually do. Another is when people move goal posts, change the subject, and say things that just aren't true to try and make an argument. You've used the "ridden" and "workhorse" words several times- if you don't mean them, don't say them. If you say things that aren't true, you can't really take issue with being called out on it.

Obviously no one can predict the the future. My issue with your arguments (and others) is that you are using things that just haven't happened in the past to try and back you up, then saying things like "it's so amazingly obvious I can't believe we have to convince people of it". You've said yourself that Mark Ingram played great at the end of last season, in the post-season, and in this pre-season, and yet they didn't "ride" him after those performances- he got less carries than Robinson in the 2nd post season game, and only had 13 carries in week 1, 11 in week 2. You've said that he went down when the first person touched him in the Dallas game every time, which clearly didn't happen- it's not a huge deal, but it's simply not true. Etc, etc.

Let's just stick to the facts- Sean Payton has never leaned on 1 RB, including Ingram. I agree that a lot of the guys he had haven't been great, although he did keep giving Ron Dayne the ball in NY when they had Tiki (which is one of the reasons his play calling was taken away and then he was fired- Tiki became a stud after that). We both seem to agree that Ingram should have had more carries in the beginning of this season- the fact that he didn't makes it anything but obvious that he's going to keep feeding Ingram the ball when Thomas and Robinson come back. It's very possible that he does, and I hope he does, but there really is no past evidence to support it as far as I can tell. Time will tell.

 

[Big Score]

All I knows is we hates him. We HATES the dirty nasty Ingram, don't we my Precious? Yes we do, we hates him. And we hates ALL the Ain'ts

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Good Lord.........

 

[I Am the Stig]

A pet peeve of mine is when people use the "I'm a big fan/watch the games" line to try and act as if they have credibility and know more than they actually do. Another is when people move goal posts, change the subject, and say things that just aren't true to try and make an argument. You've used the "ridden" and "workhorse" words several times- if you don't mean them, don't say them. If you say things that aren't true, you can't really take issue with being called out on it.

Obviously no one can predict the the future. My issue with your arguments (and others) is that you are using things that just haven't happened in the past to try and back you up, then saying things like "it's so amazingly obvious I can't believe we have to convince people of it". You've said yourself that Mark Ingram played great at the end of last season, in the post-season, and in this pre-season, and yet they didn't "ride" him after those performances- he got less carries than Robinson in the 2nd post season game, and only had 13 carries in week 1, 11 in week 2. You've said that he went down when the first person touched him in the Dallas game every time, which clearly didn't happen- it's not a huge deal, but it's simply not true. Etc, etc.

Let's just stick to the facts- Sean Payton has never leaned on 1 RB, including Ingram. I agree that a lot of the guys he had haven't been great, although he did keep giving Ron Dayne the ball in NY when they had Tiki (which is one of the reasons his play calling was taken away and then he was fired- Tiki became a stud after that). We both seem to agree that Ingram should have had more carries in the beginning of this season- the fact that he didn't makes it anything but obvious that he's going to keep feeding Ingram the ball when Thomas and Robinson come back. It's very possible that he does, and I hope he does, but there really is no past evidence to support it as far as I can tell. Time will tell.

Lots of teams use RBBC. There really are not that many true workhorses left. Every RB in Cleveland would have provided RB 2 numbers Thursday night. The key is simply picking the guy with the juiciest role in the offense. In NO case it is Ingram. He is projects consistent RB 2 numbers with RB 1 upside. So far, when available, Ingram has been a terrific with his opportunities so nit picking his role seems silly.

 

[Henry Ford]

All I knows is we hates him. We HATES the dirty nasty Ingram, don't we my Precious? Yes we do, we hates him. And we hates ALL the Ain'ts

I like how you still call them the Aints.

Hey, remember when your team traded Brett Favre for the right to draft Tony Smith?