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Mark Wimer (1 Viewer)

Yitbos69

Footballguy
Mark Wimer (FBG staff member) has Steven Jackson ranked 31st in his overall rankings and ranked as the 16th best RB.

I can't think of 30 players that I would take before SJax or 15 RB's

So I take it Wimer has SJax as a bust this year???

This seems way off base to me but he is the Expert!!! :D

Any thoughts on this?

 
My thoughts are that I like to see different opinions... :thumbup: to Mark.

S-Jax is somewhat high risk/high reward if he's taken in the first round, so a ranking in the teens is justifiable IMHO. That being said, I have him ranked #7 currently.

 
Mark Wimer (FBG staff member) has Steven Jackson ranked 31st in his overall rankings and ranked as the 16th best RB.

I can't think of 30 players that I would take before SJax or 15 RB's

So I take it Wimer has SJax as a bust this year???

This seems way off base to me but he is the Expert!!! :D

Any thoughts on this?
It appears that you think Steven Jackson will do much better than Mark Wimer does. This is what makes FF interesting. If everybody thought the same way, it would be a very boring hobby.
 
My thoughts are that I like to see different opinions... :thumbup: to Mark.

S-Jax is somewhat high risk/high reward if he's taken in the first round, so a ranking in the teens is justifiable IMHO. That being said, I have him ranked #7 currently.
That's about where I have him. I'd take him before Lamont Jordan, DD, or Westbrook. He just reminds me of Eric Dickerson for some reason. Given a steady workload I think he could be great. Hopefully he will slide and represent great value for me. :thumbup:
 
Mark Wimer (FBG staff member) has Steven Jackson ranked 31st in his overall rankings and ranked as the 16th best RB.

I can't think of 30 players that I would take before SJax or 15 RB's

So I take it Wimer has SJax as a bust this year???

This seems way off base to me but he is the Expert!!! :D

Any thoughts on this?
Well he has the highest ranking (or tied with one other) on the following players:RB Ronnie Brown, MIA at 5th

RB Domanick Davis, HOU at 6th (Tied with one other)

QB Peyton Manning, IND at 7th (Tied with one other)

RB Brian Westbrook, PHI at 9th

WR Marvin Harrison, IND at 11th

Lowest on:

RB Clinton Portis, WAS 10th

I like to see people thinking independently but when someone has ranking where almost 1/2 of your top 11 players are at the extreme end of a scale red flags go off for me.

I am not saying these rankings are wrong.

 
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Mark Wimer (FBG staff member) has Steven Jackson ranked 31st in his overall rankings and ranked as the 16th best RB.

I can't think of 30 players that I would take before SJax or 15 RB's

So I take it Wimer has SJax as a bust this year???

This seems way off base to me but he is the Expert!!! :D

Any thoughts on this?
It appears that you think Steven Jackson will do much better than Mark Wimer does. This is what makes FF interesting. If everybody thought the same way, it would be a very boring hobby.
Well what do you think? Would he last til the 31st pick in your draft?If someone were to post that they got Jackson with the 31st pick.

Most would respond with is it a money leauge???

What kind of morons are in your leauge!!!

 
Mark Wimer (FBG staff member) has Steven Jackson ranked 31st in his overall rankings and ranked as the 16th best RB.

I can't think of 30 players that I would take before SJax or 15 RB's

So I take it Wimer has SJax as a bust this year???

This seems way off base to me but he is the Expert!!! :D

Any thoughts on this?
It appears that you think Steven Jackson will do much better than Mark Wimer does. This is what makes FF interesting. If everybody thought the same way, it would be a very boring hobby.
Well what do you think? Would he last til the 31st pick in your draft?If someone were to post that they got Jackson with the 31st pick.

Most would respond with is it a money leauge???

What kind of morons are in your leauge!!!
My comment was 50% sarcasm and 50% insight. People think differently and project differently. Mark tends to stray from the pack. If you feel he is wrong, then don't follow his advice.I don't think Jackson will make it past pick 20 in most leagues. That doesn't mean Mark is wrong. It only means that he has the lowest ranking of the FBG staff.

Personally, I have Jackson in the same tier with Rudi Johnson, Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams, Edgerrin James. That puts him somewhere between #6 and #10 RB.

 
Mark Wimer (FBG staff member) has Steven Jackson ranked 31st in his overall rankings and ranked as the 16th best RB.

I can't think of 30 players that I would take before SJax or 15 RB's

So I take it Wimer has SJax as a bust this year???

This seems way off base to me but he is the Expert!!! :D

Any thoughts on this?
It appears that you think Steven Jackson will do much better than Mark Wimer does. This is what makes FF interesting. If everybody thought the same way, it would be a very boring hobby.
Well what do you think? Would he last til the 31st pick in your draft?If someone were to post that they got Jackson with the 31st pick.

Most would respond with is it a money leauge???

What kind of morons are in your leauge!!!
We get it. You disagree. Time will tell.Perhaps you could post your own rankings and we could debate those? :thumbup:

 
Mark Wimer (FBG staff member) has Steven Jackson ranked 31st in his overall rankings and ranked as the 16th best RB.

I can't think of 30 players that I would take before SJax or 15 RB's

So I take it Wimer has SJax as a bust this year???

This seems way off base to me but he is the Expert!!! :D

Any thoughts on this?
It appears that you think Steven Jackson will do much better than Mark Wimer does. This is what makes FF interesting. If everybody thought the same way, it would be a very boring hobby.
Well what do you think? Would he last til the 31st pick in your draft?If someone were to post that they got Jackson with the 31st pick.

Most would respond with is it a money leauge???

What kind of morons are in your leauge!!!
When your rankings differ from the norm I don't think you expect to get a player at where you rank them. You take somebody else that you see as a better value and if you are really thinking a person is overrated you let someone else take them much earlier and if you are right, watch them bust for them or watch your higher ranked player do better. If I wanted to rank players in accordance to where I think they'll go I'd just draft off of ADP listings, but I rank/project players based on where I think they SHOULD go based on my opinions on the players. If nothing else, when I see someone have a certain player ranked much different then the norm it at least makes me examine that player a little closer to see if there is something I'm not taking into consideration or if they see something I don't. If it makes you think it may change your mind slightly or it may just reinforce your beliefs. Either way it is a good thing.
 
I am all for thinking outside the box. I just don't see any reason that SJax should be ranked so low. He ranked 33 when he split time with MF.

Average Draft Position (David Dodds)

Sorted by Overall Draft Position

Rank Old Change Pos Name Team/Bye

1 1 0 RB1 Larry Johnson KC/3

2 2 0 RB2 LaDainian Tomlinson SD/3

3 3 0 RB3 Shaun Alexander Sea/5

4 4 0 RB4 Clinton Portis Was/8

5 5 0 RB5 Edgerrin James Ari/9

6 6 0 RB6 Tiki Barber NYG/4

7 7 0 RB7 Steven Jackson StL/7

8 8 0 RB8 LaMont Jordan Oak/3

9 9 0 RB9 Ronnie Brown Mia/8

10 11 1 RB10 Cadillac Williams TB/4

11 10 -1 RB11 Rudi Johnson Cin/5

12 13 1 WR1 Steve Smith Car/9

 
I am all for thinking outside the box. I just don't see any reason that SJax should be ranked so low. He ranked 33 when he split time with MF.

Average Draft Position (David Dodds)

Sorted by Overall Draft Position

Rank Old Change Pos Name Team/Bye

1 1 0 RB1 Larry Johnson KC/3

2 2 0 RB2 LaDainian Tomlinson SD/3

3 3 0 RB3 Shaun Alexander Sea/5

4 4 0 RB4 Clinton Portis Was/8

5 5 0 RB5 Edgerrin James Ari/9

6 6 0 RB6 Tiki Barber NYG/4

7 7 0 RB7 Steven Jackson StL/7

8 8 0 RB8 LaMont Jordan Oak/3

9 9 0 RB9 Ronnie Brown Mia/8

10 11 1 RB10 Cadillac Williams TB/4

11 10 -1 RB11 Rudi Johnson Cin/5

12 13 1 WR1 Steve Smith Car/9
Do you say the same thing over and over much?
 
Mark Wimer (FBG staff member) has Steven Jackson ranked 31st in his overall rankings and ranked as the 16th best RB.

I can't think of 30 players that I would take before SJax or 15 RB's

So I take it Wimer has SJax as a bust this year???

This seems way off base to me but he is the Expert!!! :D

Any thoughts on this?
If you think you already know where all the players should be ranked, why are checking out his rankings for advice in the first place? :rolleyes:
 
Mark Wimer (FBG staff member) has Steven Jackson ranked 31st in his overall rankings and ranked as the 16th best RB.

I can't think of 30 players that I would take before SJax or 15 RB's

So I take it Wimer has SJax as a bust this year???

This seems way off base to me but he is the Expert!!! :D

Any thoughts on this?
It appears that you think Steven Jackson will do much better than Mark Wimer does. This is what makes FF interesting. If everybody thought the same way, it would be a very boring hobby.
Well what do you think? Would he last til the 31st pick in your draft?If someone were to post that they got Jackson with the 31st pick.

Most would respond with is it a money leauge???

What kind of morons are in your leauge!!!
We get it. You disagree. Time will tell.Perhaps you could post your own rankings and we could debate those? :thumbup:
So you agree with Wimer rankings?And I really don't think you get it at all!!!

 
Mark Wimer (FBG staff member) has Steven Jackson ranked 31st in his overall rankings and ranked as the 16th best RB.

I can't think of 30 players that I would take before SJax or 15 RB's

So I take it Wimer has SJax as a bust this year???

This seems way off base to me but he is the Expert!!! :D

Any thoughts on this?
It appears that you think Steven Jackson will do much better than Mark Wimer does. This is what makes FF interesting. If everybody thought the same way, it would be a very boring hobby.
Well what do you think? Would he last til the 31st pick in your draft?If someone were to post that they got Jackson with the 31st pick.

Most would respond with is it a money leauge???

What kind of morons are in your leauge!!!
We get it. You disagree. Time will tell.Perhaps you could post your own rankings and we could debate those? :thumbup:
So you agree with Wimer rankings?And I really don't think you get it at all!!!
Please list your overall rankings, and specifically your Top-30 RB rankings. You clearly disagree with Wimer's, so throw yours out there as a counterpoint to discuss.That's sort of how the Shark Pool works.

 
Mark Wimer (FBG staff member) has Steven Jackson ranked 31st in his overall rankings and ranked as the 16th best RB.

I can't think of 30 players that I would take before SJax or 15 RB's

So I take it Wimer has SJax as a bust this year???

This seems way off base to me but he is the Expert!!! :D

Any thoughts on this?
It appears that you think Steven Jackson will do much better than Mark Wimer does. This is what makes FF interesting. If everybody thought the same way, it would be a very boring hobby.
Well what do you think? Would he last til the 31st pick in your draft?If someone were to post that they got Jackson with the 31st pick.

Most would respond with is it a money leauge???

What kind of morons are in your leauge!!!
We get it. You disagree. Time will tell.Perhaps you could post your own rankings and we could debate those? :thumbup:
So you agree with Wimer rankings?And I really don't think you get it at all!!!
Please list your overall rankings, and specifically your Top-30 RB rankings. You clearly disagree with Wimer's, so throw yours out there as a counterpoint to discuss.That's sort of how the Shark Pool works.
Or you can create your own message board and use alial to submit posts that always reinforce your thoughts.
 
Yitbos69 -

Part of the problem may be related to something you said in your initial post: "This seems way off base to me but he is the Expert!!!" I do think it unfortunate that the term 'expert' is used in the intro on the rankings pages ("Final points are calculated by weighting all experts equally, but if more than 10 experts have submitted rankings...") because they are simply staff with varying degrees of knowledge and success in the game. None are held accountable for their rankings based on end of year comparisons, none are asked to explain extremely out-of-consensus rankings in a page linked to the rankings page (a major failing of FBG in my opinion, since the rankings may be the most viewed pages at FBG in preseason and it would seem that such explanation would be valuable food for thought), and we have no idea what success these guys have in their own fantasy leagues.

I think you are taking Wimer's rankings too seriously. His is one of 17 redraft rankings, and if you think he's out of touch, ignore him. Over time, I've learned which of the staff rankings to pay attention to and which to ignore. While I won't mention names, I think that about 7 or 8 of the 17 who offer rankings appear to either not keep up with the ever-changing NFL environment or don't have a very good understanding of how to translate that news into rankings. I'd go as far as to say 4 of them are probably below average fantasy players, based on their rankings. Again, they get to post rankings because they have jobs at FBG doing various writeups, and it doesn't mean they have had to prove expertise in rankings. That's just how it is. Be happy you have 17 sets of rankings to choose from instead of most sites which have just one, and decide for yourself which ones are experts.

 
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I am sorry if this post has upset some of you guy.

It was just an observation of something that stood out to me.

I was trying to garner others opinions.

As requested he are my top 30 RB (redraft)

1)SA

2)LT

3)LJ

4)PORTIS

5)TIKI

6)SJAX

7)RUDI

8)RONNIE B

9)EDGE

10)L. JORDAN

11)CADDY

12)D DAVIS

13)WILLIS

14)KJ

15)FAST WILLIE

16)WESTY

17)JJ

18)DUNN

19)C.TAYLOR

20)BELL

21)J LEWIS

22)C DILLON

23)FOSTER

24)DROUGHNS

25)R BUSH

26)F TAYLOR

27)A GREEN

28)DEUCE MC

29)ADDAI

30)BENSON

Have at it!!!

 
Yitbos69 -

Part of the problem may be related to something you said in your initial post: "This seems way off base to me but he is the Expert!!!" I do think it unfortunate that the term 'expert' is used in the intro on the rankings pages ("Final points are calculated by weighting all experts equally, but if more than 10 experts have submitted rankings...") because they are simply staff with varying degrees of knowledge and success in the game. None are held accountable for their rankings based on end of year comparisons, none are asked to explain extremely out-of-consensus rankings in a page linked to the rankings page (a major failing of FBG in my opinion, since the rankings may be the most viewed pages at FBG in preseason and it would seem that such explanation would be valuable food for thought), and we have no idea what success these guys have in their own fantasy leagues.

I think you are taking Wimer's rankings too seriously. His is one of 17 redraft rankings, and if you think he's out of touch, ignore him. Over time, I've learned which of the staff rankings to pay attention to and which to ignore. While I won't mention names, I've found that about 7 or 8 of the 17 who offer rankings appear to either not keep up with the ever-changing NFL environment or don't have a very good understanding of how to translate that news into rankings. I'd go as far as to say 4 of them are probably below average fantasy players, based on their rankings. Again, they get to post rankings because they have jobs at FBG doing various writeups, and it doesn't mean they have had to prove expertise in rankings. That's just how it is. Be happy you have 17 sets of rankings to choose from instead of most sites which have just one, and decide for yourself which ones are experts.
thanks for the info
 
If you hit Mark with a PM he'll respond in this thread and give you a very clear concise answer as to why he has any one particular player ranked higher or lower than most.

 
I am sorry if this post has upset some of you guy.

It was just an observation of something that stood out to me.

I was trying to garner others opinions.

As requested he are my top 30 RB (redraft)

1)SA

2)LT

3)LJ

4)PORTIS

5)TIKI

6)SJAX

7)RUDI

8)RONNIE B

9)EDGE

10)L. JORDAN

11)CADDY

12)D DAVIS

13)WILLIS

14)KJ

15)FAST WILLIE

16)WESTY

17)JJ

18)DUNN

19)C.TAYLOR

20)BELL

21)J LEWIS

22)C DILLON

23)FOSTER

24)DROUGHNS

25)R BUSH

26)F TAYLOR

27)A GREEN

28)DEUCE MC

29)ADDAI

30)BENSON

Have at it!!!
Solid Rankings.I might switch up a few a slot or two but these are very good.

 
I am sorry if this post has upset some of you guy.

It was just an observation of something that stood out to me.

I was trying to garner others opinions.

As requested he are my top 30 RB (redraft)

1)SA

2)LT

3)LJ

4)PORTIS

5)TIKI

6)SJAX

7)RUDI

8)RONNIE B

9)EDGE

10)L. JORDAN

11)CADDY

12)D DAVIS

13)WILLIS

14)KJ

15)FAST WILLIE

16)WESTY

17)JJ

18)DUNN

19)C.TAYLOR

20)BELL

21)J LEWIS

22)C DILLON

23)FOSTER

24)DROUGHNS

25)R BUSH

26)F TAYLOR

27)A GREEN

28)DEUCE MC

29)ADDAI

30)BENSON

Have at it!!!
Yitbos,I don't know if it's "upsetting" as much as it is not that big of a deal. I don't find it remarkable that someone has Player X low or Player Y high according to some other person.

That said, props to you for putting out a list. Good luck with your draft prep.

 
If you hit Mark with a PM he'll respond in this thread and give you a very clear concise answer as to why he has any one particular player ranked higher or lower than most.
Thanks I will hit him up!!
 
If you hit Mark with a PM he'll respond in this thread and give you a very clear concise answer as to why he has any one particular player ranked higher or lower than most.
Oh, and be sure to ignore all Shick! rankings. Spending too much time moderating the Free For All has turned his brain to mush. (j/k :P )
 
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I am sorry if this post has upset some of you guy.

It was just an observation of something that stood out to me.

I was trying to garner others opinions.

As requested he are my top 30 RB (redraft)

1)SA

2)LT

3)LJ

4)PORTIS

5)TIKI

6)SJAX

7)RUDI

8)RONNIE B

9)EDGE

10)L. JORDAN

11)CADDY

12)D DAVIS

13)WILLIS

14)KJ

15)FAST WILLIE

16)WESTY

17)JJ

18)DUNN

19)C.TAYLOR

20)BELL

21)J LEWIS

22)C DILLON

23)FOSTER

24)DROUGHNS

25)R BUSH

26)F TAYLOR

27)A GREEN

28)DEUCE MC

29)ADDAI

30)BENSON

Have at it!!!
Solid Rankings.I might switch up a few a slot or two but these are very good.
Or you can create your own message board and use alial to submit posts that always reinforce your thoughts.
:lmao:
 
I am sorry if this post has upset some of you guy.

It was just an observation of something that stood out to me.

I was trying to garner others opinions.

As requested he are my top 30 RB (redraft)

1)SA

2)LT

3)LJ

4)PORTIS

5)TIKI

6)SJAX

7)RUDI

8)RONNIE B

9)EDGE

10)L. JORDAN

11)CADDY

12)D DAVIS

13)WILLIS

14)KJ

15)FAST WILLIE

16)WESTY

17)JJ

18)DUNN

19)C.TAYLOR

20)BELL

21)J LEWIS

22)C DILLON

23)FOSTER

24)DROUGHNS

25)R BUSH

26)F TAYLOR

27)A GREEN

28)DEUCE MC

29)ADDAI

30)BENSON

Have at it!!!
Solid Rankings.I might switch up a few a slot or two but these are very good.
Or you can create your own message board and use alial to submit posts that always reinforce your thoughts.
:lmao:
I am not Yitbos69 if that is indeed what you are implying.
 
I am sorry if this post has upset some of you guy.

It was just an observation of something that stood out to me.

I was trying to garner others opinions.

As requested he are my top 30 RB (redraft)

1)SA

2)LT

3)LJ

4)PORTIS

5)TIKI

6)SJAX

7)RUDI

8)RONNIE B

9)EDGE

10)L. JORDAN

11)CADDY

12)D DAVIS

13)WILLIS

14)KJ

15)FAST WILLIE

16)WESTY

17)JJ

18)DUNN

19)C.TAYLOR

20)BELL

21)J LEWIS

22)C DILLON

23)FOSTER

24)DROUGHNS

25)R BUSH

26)F TAYLOR

27)A GREEN

28)DEUCE MC

29)ADDAI

30)BENSON

Have at it!!!
Solid Rankings.I might switch up a few a slot or two but these are very good.
Or you can create your own message board and use alial to submit posts that always reinforce your thoughts.
:lmao:
I am not Yitbos69 if that is indeed what you are implying.
Nope. Didn't cross my mind at all. If you look, you'll see my comment was posted well before yours. If you're referring to your first posting, that was quite incisive as it showed Wimer is an outlier on many marquee fantasy players. Good find!
 
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Mark Wimer (FBG staff member) has Steven Jackson ranked 31st in his overall rankings and ranked as the 16th best RB.

I can't think of 30 players that I would take before SJax or 15 RB's

So I take it Wimer has SJax as a bust this year???

This seems way off base to me but he is the Expert!!! :D

Any thoughts on this?
Hey Yitbos69 and Sharks,It just happens that I recently wrote a faceoff for the site on Steven Jackson and my relatively low ranking of him, which I expect to be posted soon. I'll post it below and then expand on my comments below that:

The St. Louis Rams are moving into 2006 with a new head coach, Scott Linehan, and a new, more run-oriented offense. 33 year old Marshall Faulk’s knees are flaring up, and he may need season-ending surgery – Steven Jackson is locked in as the Ram’s top running back. So what’s not to like?

Plenty – starting with the fact that the offense is well behind the defense in absorbing their new system, according to coach Linehan. After mini-

camps, the team has approximately 40% of the offense in place and has yet to work on installing red-zone plays and other “special situation” schemes (http://www.stlouisrams.com/article/54218/). If the offense stumbles early in the season, Jackson’s owners will feel the pinch.

Second of all, the offensive line has spent years pass blocking with little emphasis on the running game, and the unit has several question marks. Especially worrisome are the OG’s, with RG Adam Timmerman (he’s 35 this year, along with C Andy McCollum) slowing down, and last year’s LG Claude Terrell struggling so far – he’s being challenged for his starting spot by Richie Incognito. Last year the Rams managed an average of 4.0 yards per carry, which is not outstanding.

Finally, Jackson wore down during the second half of 2005 – he scored only 3 TDs from week 8 onwards, and posted only 3 games with 100+ combined yards during that span. Week 11 vs. Arizona (12/6/0 rushing and 3/16/0) and week 13 vs. Washington (11/24/0 rushing and 4/18/0 receiving), he struggled to move the ball at all. Jackson handled the ball 297 times over 15 games last season (254/1046/8 rushing and 43/320/2 receiving), but was only 16th among fantasy RBs in fantasy points per game (Jackson PPG 2005(13.11 fantasy points per game)).

Given the huge transition that the Rams’ offense is undergoing, and considering all the other offensive stars on this team (Torry Holt, Issac Bruce and emerging star Kevin Curtis), it is premature to believe Jackson will vault into the top 10 fantasy RBs. We need to wait and see how the new offense functions when the pads go on and the hitting starts, at the very minimum. Right now, I believe Jackson boosters are overly enthusiastic about his 2006 prospects.
Look at Steven Jackson's game logs last year: Jackson by Game, 2005

You'll see that he had only 2 100+ rushing games last year, and his TD production tanked in the second half of the year.

As I noted above, Jackson will very likely not have much competition for carries from Marshall Faulk this year - but his performance on a game-by-game basis last year (especially the 2nd half of the year, when Faulk was pretty limited due to his degenerating knees already) doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in my mind.

There is a lot of ground for the Rams to cover between the start of training camp and the start of the regular season, and we have yet to see how their new offense actually operates when facing a bona-fide NFL defense at full speed. IMO, it is early to be ranking Jackson in the top 10 at RB until we see if the Rams can get the new running game/blocking schemes successfully installed. I was especially alarmed when I read that they haven't even begun working on red zone situations/schemes yet, even on the fundamental footwork/playcalling level - let alone full speed action against a "stacked" defensive front.

On my RB board, there are a lot of guys ahead of Jackson who are in better situations, IMO. Clinton Portis sounds like he loves Al Saunder's new scheme in Washington, and I've read a lot of positive reveiws of the progress Washington (and particularly, Portis, are making in installing it). Cadillac Williams has had a year to absorb Gruden's complex offense (and he was pretty good in it as a rookie). Willie Parker doesn't have the Bus around to soak up goal-line situations. Foster gets the chance to be a featured back for a full year, and he's well-versed in Carolina's offense. And so forth. When I did my projections for the running backs, based on my assessment of their probable output, the guys above Jackson simply looked stronger production-wise to me.

In conclusion, it's not that I think Jackson will stink this year (1200-1300 yards rushing, 8-9 TDs, with 250-350 yards receiving and 1-2 TDs is my current projections), it's just I think he'll fall outside of RB1 range in production.

***As a side note, before someone pulls up a list of actual rushing/receiving statistics from last year, or averages from 2000-2004, or whatever, and tells me that I'm nuts for projecting the #16 back to hit those numbers, I'll point out that my projections in the vast majority of cases are for a full 16 game slate (except in cases of a known, degenerative condition like Marshall Faulks' knees or a rehabbing injury situation like Daunte Culpepper's catastrophic knee injury that make a full season for the player in question highly questionable before the fact of the approaching season - these exceptions happen on a case by case basis).

However, for example, out of last year's top 20 backs, only 9 played a full slate of 16 games. IMO, it is impossible to predict the many random situations which occur every year that cost even top players 1-3 games, or parts of games that ad up to 1-3 games (the flu, cramps, heat exhaustion, family tragedy/funerals, tweaked hamstring, etc.), so projections necessarily skew high (when compared to prior years' actual statistics for the entire season) the further down the rankings a person proceeds, as often the guys in the 10-30 (and below) range have often missed some time during an actual NFL season, for whatever reasons that cost a particular player a game here and there. However, my projections at any particular ranking are near the Points per Game #'s at those positions compared to prior year actuals (depending on the year or range of years that a critic may or may not include in their sample). - MW

 
Well what do you think? Would he last til the 31st pick in your draft?

If someone were to post that they got Kevan Barlow in 2004 with the 31st pick.

Most would respond with is it a money leauge???

What kind of morons are in your leauge!!!
Fixed.If you want rankings that just blindly follow the herd, might I suggest using ADP instead?

 
Mark Wimer (FBG staff member) has Steven Jackson ranked 31st in his overall rankings and ranked as the 16th best RB.

I can't think of 30 players that I would take before SJax or 15 RB's

So I take it Wimer has SJax as a bust this year???

This seems way off base to me but he is the Expert!!! :D

Any thoughts on this?
Hey Yitbos69 and Sharks,It just happens that I recently wrote a faceoff for the site on Steven Jackson and my relatively low ranking of him, which I expect to be posted soon. I'll post it below and then expand on my comments below that:

The St. Louis Rams are moving into 2006 with a new head coach, Scott Linehan, and a new, more run-oriented offense. 33 year old Marshall Faulk’s knees are flaring up, and he may need season-ending surgery – Steven Jackson is locked in as the Ram’s top running back. So what’s not to like?

Plenty – starting with the fact that the offense is well behind the defense in absorbing their new system, according to coach Linehan. After mini-

camps, the team has approximately 40% of the offense in place and has yet to work on installing red-zone plays and other “special situation” schemes (http://www.stlouisrams.com/article/54218/). If the offense stumbles early in the season, Jackson’s owners will feel the pinch.

Second of all, the offensive line has spent years pass blocking with little emphasis on the running game, and the unit has several question marks. Especially worrisome are the OG’s, with RG Adam Timmerman (he’s 35 this year, along with C Andy McCollum) slowing down, and last year’s LG Claude Terrell struggling so far – he’s being challenged for his starting spot by Richie Incognito.  Last year the Rams managed an average of 4.0 yards per carry, which is not outstanding.

Finally, Jackson wore down during the second half of 2005 – he scored only 3 TDs from week 8 onwards, and posted only 3 games with 100+ combined yards during that span. Week 11 vs. Arizona (12/6/0 rushing and 3/16/0) and week 13 vs. Washington (11/24/0 rushing and 4/18/0 receiving), he struggled to move the ball at all. Jackson handled the ball 297 times over 15 games last season (254/1046/8 rushing and 43/320/2 receiving), but was only 16th among fantasy RBs in fantasy points per game (Jackson PPG 2005(13.11 fantasy points per game)).

Given the huge transition that the Rams’ offense is undergoing, and considering all the other offensive stars on this team (Torry Holt, Issac Bruce and emerging star Kevin Curtis), it is premature to believe Jackson will vault into the top 10 fantasy RBs. We need to wait and see how the new offense functions when the pads go on and the hitting starts, at the very minimum. Right now, I believe Jackson boosters are overly enthusiastic about his 2006 prospects.
Look at Steven Jackson's game logs last year: Jackson by Game, 2005

You'll see that he had only 2 100+ rushing games last year, and his TD production tanked in the second half of the year.

As I noted above, Jackson will very likely not have much competition for carries from Marshall Faulk this year - but his performance on a game-by-game basis last year (especially the 2nd half of the year, when Faulk was pretty limited due to his degenerating knees already) doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in my mind.

There is a lot of ground for the Rams to cover between the start of training camp and the start of the regular season, and we have yet to see how their new offense actually operates when facing a bona-fide NFL defense at full speed. IMO, it is early to be ranking Jackson in the top 10 at RB until we see if the Rams can get the new running game/blocking schemes successfully installed. I was especially alarmed when I read that they haven't even begun working on red zone situations/schemes yet, even on the fundamental footwork/playcalling level - let alone full speed action against a "stacked" defensive front.

On my RB board, there are a lot of guys ahead of Jackson who are in better situations, IMO. Clinton Portis sounds like he loves Al Saunder's new scheme in Washington, and I've read a lot of positive reveiws of the progress Washington (and particularly, Portis, are making in installing it). Cadillac Williams has had a year to absorb Gruden's complex offense (and he was pretty good in it as a rookie). Willie Parker doesn't have the Bus around to soak up goal-line situations. Foster gets the chance to be a featured back for a full year, and he's well-versed in Carolina's offense. And so forth. When I did my projections for the running backs, based on my assessment of their probable output, the guys above Jackson simply looked stronger production-wise to me.

In conclusion, it's not that I think Jackson will stink this year (1200-1300 yards rushing, 8-9 TDs, with 250-350 yards receiving and 1-2 TDs is my current projections), it's just I think he'll fall outside of RB1 range in production.

***As a side note, before someone pulls up a list of actual rushing/receiving statistics from last year, or averages from 2000-2004, or whatever, and tells me that I'm nuts for projecting the #16 back to hit those numbers, I'll point out that my projections in the vast majority of cases are for a full 16 game slate (except in cases of a known, degenerative condition like Marshall Faulks' knees or a rehabbing injury situation like Daunte Culpepper's catastrophic knee injury that make a full season for the player in question highly questionable before the fact of the approaching season - these exceptions happen on a case by case basis).

However, for example, out of last year's top 20 backs, only 9 played a full slate of 16 games. IMO, it is impossible to predict the many random situations which occur every year that cost even top players 1-3 games, or parts of games that ad up to 1-3 games (the flu, cramps, heat exhaustion, family tragedy/funerals, tweaked hamstring, etc.), so projections necessarily skew high (when compared to prior years' actual statistics for the entire season) the further down the rankings a person proceeds, as often the guys in the 10-30 (and below) range have often missed some time during an actual NFL season, for whatever reasons that cost a particular player a game here and there. However, my projections at any particular ranking are near the Points per Game #'s at those positions compared to prior year actuals (depending on the year or range of years that a critic may or may not include in their sample). - MW
Interesting stuff Mark...I do have one question, if you wouldn't mind continuing to share your thoughts on Jackson.You mention a decline in production for Jackson over the last 8 games of 2005. I was wondering to what extent you attribute this to Jackson "wearing down" compared to the state of the St. Louis offense as a whole...that is, mainly, the fact that the Rams were playing with their # 3 QB for much of the second half of the season.

Could this not be a big factor in explaining Jackson's declining productivity in the second half of last season?

 
Mark Wimer (FBG staff member) has Steven Jackson ranked 31st in his overall rankings and ranked as the 16th best RB.

I can't think of 30 players that I would take before SJax or 15 RB's

So I take it Wimer has SJax as a bust this year???

This seems way off base to me but he is the Expert!!! :D

Any thoughts on this?
Hey Yitbos69 and Sharks,It just happens that I recently wrote a faceoff for the site on Steven Jackson and my relatively low ranking of him, which I expect to be posted soon. I'll post it below and then expand on my comments below that:

The St. Louis Rams are moving into 2006 with a new head coach, Scott Linehan, and a new, more run-oriented offense. 33 year old Marshall Faulk’s knees are flaring up, and he may need season-ending surgery – Steven Jackson is locked in as the Ram’s top running back. So what’s not to like?

Plenty – starting with the fact that the offense is well behind the defense in absorbing their new system, according to coach Linehan. After mini-

camps, the team has approximately 40% of the offense in place and has yet to work on installing red-zone plays and other “special situation” schemes (http://www.stlouisrams.com/article/54218/). If the offense stumbles early in the season, Jackson’s owners will feel the pinch.

Second of all, the offensive line has spent years pass blocking with little emphasis on the running game, and the unit has several question marks. Especially worrisome are the OG’s, with RG Adam Timmerman (he’s 35 this year, along with C Andy McCollum) slowing down, and last year’s LG Claude Terrell struggling so far – he’s being challenged for his starting spot by Richie Incognito.  Last year the Rams managed an average of 4.0 yards per carry, which is not outstanding.

Finally, Jackson wore down during the second half of 2005 – he scored only 3 TDs from week 8 onwards, and posted only 3 games with 100+ combined yards during that span. Week 11 vs. Arizona (12/6/0 rushing and 3/16/0) and week 13 vs. Washington (11/24/0 rushing and 4/18/0 receiving), he struggled to move the ball at all. Jackson handled the ball 297 times over 15 games last season (254/1046/8 rushing and 43/320/2 receiving), but was only 16th among fantasy RBs in fantasy points per game (Jackson PPG 2005(13.11 fantasy points per game)).

Given the huge transition that the Rams’ offense is undergoing, and considering all the other offensive stars on this team (Torry Holt, Issac Bruce and emerging star Kevin Curtis), it is premature to believe Jackson will vault into the top 10 fantasy RBs. We need to wait and see how the new offense functions when the pads go on and the hitting starts, at the very minimum. Right now, I believe Jackson boosters are overly enthusiastic about his 2006 prospects.
Look at Steven Jackson's game logs last year: Jackson by Game, 2005

You'll see that he had only 2 100+ rushing games last year, and his TD production tanked in the second half of the year.

As I noted above, Jackson will very likely not have much competition for carries from Marshall Faulk this year - but his performance on a game-by-game basis last year (especially the 2nd half of the year, when Faulk was pretty limited due to his degenerating knees already) doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in my mind.

There is a lot of ground for the Rams to cover between the start of training camp and the start of the regular season, and we have yet to see how their new offense actually operates when facing a bona-fide NFL defense at full speed. IMO, it is early to be ranking Jackson in the top 10 at RB until we see if the Rams can get the new running game/blocking schemes successfully installed. I was especially alarmed when I read that they haven't even begun working on red zone situations/schemes yet, even on the fundamental footwork/playcalling level - let alone full speed action against a "stacked" defensive front.

On my RB board, there are a lot of guys ahead of Jackson who are in better situations, IMO. Clinton Portis sounds like he loves Al Saunder's new scheme in Washington, and I've read a lot of positive reveiws of the progress Washington (and particularly, Portis, are making in installing it). Cadillac Williams has had a year to absorb Gruden's complex offense (and he was pretty good in it as a rookie). Willie Parker doesn't have the Bus around to soak up goal-line situations. Foster gets the chance to be a featured back for a full year, and he's well-versed in Carolina's offense. And so forth. When I did my projections for the running backs, based on my assessment of their probable output, the guys above Jackson simply looked stronger production-wise to me.

In conclusion, it's not that I think Jackson will stink this year (1200-1300 yards rushing, 8-9 TDs, with 250-350 yards receiving and 1-2 TDs is my current projections), it's just I think he'll fall outside of RB1 range in production.

***As a side note, before someone pulls up a list of actual rushing/receiving statistics from last year, or averages from 2000-2004, or whatever, and tells me that I'm nuts for projecting the #16 back to hit those numbers, I'll point out that my projections in the vast majority of cases are for a full 16 game slate (except in cases of a known, degenerative condition like Marshall Faulks' knees or a rehabbing injury situation like Daunte Culpepper's catastrophic knee injury that make a full season for the player in question highly questionable before the fact of the approaching season - these exceptions happen on a case by case basis).

However, for example, out of last year's top 20 backs, only 9 played a full slate of 16 games. IMO, it is impossible to predict the many random situations which occur every year that cost even top players 1-3 games, or parts of games that ad up to 1-3 games (the flu, cramps, heat exhaustion, family tragedy/funerals, tweaked hamstring, etc.), so projections necessarily skew high (when compared to prior years' actual statistics for the entire season) the further down the rankings a person proceeds, as often the guys in the 10-30 (and below) range have often missed some time during an actual NFL season, for whatever reasons that cost a particular player a game here and there. However, my projections at any particular ranking are near the Points per Game #'s at those positions compared to prior year actuals (depending on the year or range of years that a critic may or may not include in their sample). - MW
Interesting stuff Mark...I do have one question, if you wouldn't mind continuing to share your thoughts on Jackson.You mention a decline in production for Jackson over the last 8 games of 2005. I was wondering to what extent you attribute this to Jackson "wearing down" compared to the state of the St. Louis offense as a whole...that is, mainly, the fact that the Rams were playing with their # 3 QB for much of the second half of the season.

Could this not be a big factor in explaining Jackson's declining productivity in the second half of last season?
The offensive decline you cite was definitely one of the contributing factors. However, when I see the poor games vs. Arizona and Washington in the second half (they were real stinkers, as noted above), I have to attribute at least part of the decline to Jackson wearing down/losing some of his competitive edge or burst, along with the general malaise affecting the Rams offense. He and the OL just didn't look consistently strong to me as I went through the progression of games during regular season. As I noted in the rushing matchup for St. Louis looking forward to week 14 (after the Washington game) last year (Rams Rushing matchup week 14, the Rams line was also a big problem. At the time Coach Vitt said "There has to be a running lane, there has to be somewhere to run the football, and if there is, Steven will find it. There was no running lane yesterday (vs. WAS), none." (FWIW, Jackson managed a mediocre 19/67/0 rushing the following week vs. Minnesota).

The Rams did not make any big changes to that line during the off-season, so expecting them to suddenly be consistently opening running lanes while learning a new blocking scheme is pretty optimistic, IMO.

The bottom line is I don't see Jackson as a fantasy RB1 in the current situation in St. Louis. If they prove me wrong and look strong during training camp/pre-season in the running game, then I'll have to revise my opinion - but as of early July I am not a big Steven Jackson booster.

 
Mark Wimer (FBG staff member) has Steven Jackson ranked 31st in his overall rankings and ranked as the 16th best RB.

I can't think of 30 players that I would take before SJax or 15 RB's

So I take it Wimer has SJax as a bust this year???

This seems way off base to me but he is the Expert!!! :D

Any thoughts on this?
I have always viewed FBG and the boards as a consulting service. It is a service I can use at my leisure and as often or as little as I like. I have always appreciated and have come to expect that the advice provided would be honest and thought provoking, while having statistics or theories to support what is presented. I anticipate seeing rankings that are outside of the proverbial box and educated arguments to support those positions. I might not agree with everything FBG projects in terms of statistics or year end rankings but I would much rather have someone present what they feel and how they reached that point versus telling me what I want to hear. Thus, if M. Wimer ranks S. Jackson that low and has a valid reason for doing so, then I am willing to take that into consideration. I might not agree but I appreciate his and FBG candid approach.

 
Mark Wimer (FBG staff member) has Steven Jackson ranked 31st in his overall rankings and ranked as the 16th best RB.

I can't think of 30 players that I would take before SJax or 15 RB's

So I take it Wimer has SJax as a bust this year???

This seems way off base to me but he is the Expert!!! :D

Any thoughts on this?
Hey Yitbos69 and Sharks,It just happens that I recently wrote a faceoff for the site on Steven Jackson and my relatively low ranking of him, which I expect to be posted soon. I'll post it below and then expand on my comments below that:

The St. Louis Rams are moving into 2006 with a new head coach, Scott Linehan, and a new, more run-oriented offense. 33 year old Marshall Faulk’s knees are flaring up, and he may need season-ending surgery – Steven Jackson is locked in as the Ram’s top running back. So what’s not to like?

Plenty – starting with the fact that the offense is well behind the defense in absorbing their new system, according to coach Linehan. After mini-

camps, the team has approximately 40% of the offense in place and has yet to work on installing red-zone plays and other “special situation” schemes (http://www.stlouisrams.com/article/54218/). If the offense stumbles early in the season, Jackson’s owners will feel the pinch.

Second of all, the offensive line has spent years pass blocking with little emphasis on the running game, and the unit has several question marks. Especially worrisome are the OG’s, with RG Adam Timmerman (he’s 35 this year, along with C Andy McCollum) slowing down, and last year’s LG Claude Terrell struggling so far – he’s being challenged for his starting spot by Richie Incognito.  Last year the Rams managed an average of 4.0 yards per carry, which is not outstanding.

Finally, Jackson wore down during the second half of 2005 – he scored only 3 TDs from week 8 onwards, and posted only 3 games with 100+ combined yards during that span. Week 11 vs. Arizona (12/6/0 rushing and 3/16/0) and week 13 vs. Washington (11/24/0 rushing and 4/18/0 receiving), he struggled to move the ball at all. Jackson handled the ball 297 times over 15 games last season (254/1046/8 rushing and 43/320/2 receiving), but was only 16th among fantasy RBs in fantasy points per game (Jackson PPG 2005(13.11 fantasy points per game)).

Given the huge transition that the Rams’ offense is undergoing, and considering all the other offensive stars on this team (Torry Holt, Issac Bruce and emerging star Kevin Curtis), it is premature to believe Jackson will vault into the top 10 fantasy RBs. We need to wait and see how the new offense functions when the pads go on and the hitting starts, at the very minimum. Right now, I believe Jackson boosters are overly enthusiastic about his 2006 prospects.
Look at Steven Jackson's game logs last year: Jackson by Game, 2005

You'll see that he had only 2 100+ rushing games last year, and his TD production tanked in the second half of the year.

As I noted above, Jackson will very likely not have much competition for carries from Marshall Faulk this year - but his performance on a game-by-game basis last year (especially the 2nd half of the year, when Faulk was pretty limited due to his degenerating knees already) doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in my mind.

There is a lot of ground for the Rams to cover between the start of training camp and the start of the regular season, and we have yet to see how their new offense actually operates when facing a bona-fide NFL defense at full speed. IMO, it is early to be ranking Jackson in the top 10 at RB until we see if the Rams can get the new running game/blocking schemes successfully installed. I was especially alarmed when I read that they haven't even begun working on red zone situations/schemes yet, even on the fundamental footwork/playcalling level - let alone full speed action against a "stacked" defensive front.

On my RB board, there are a lot of guys ahead of Jackson who are in better situations, IMO. Clinton Portis sounds like he loves Al Saunder's new scheme in Washington, and I've read a lot of positive reveiws of the progress Washington (and particularly, Portis, are making in installing it). Cadillac Williams has had a year to absorb Gruden's complex offense (and he was pretty good in it as a rookie). Willie Parker doesn't have the Bus around to soak up goal-line situations. Foster gets the chance to be a featured back for a full year, and he's well-versed in Carolina's offense. And so forth. When I did my projections for the running backs, based on my assessment of their probable output, the guys above Jackson simply looked stronger production-wise to me.

In conclusion, it's not that I think Jackson will stink this year (1200-1300 yards rushing, 8-9 TDs, with 250-350 yards receiving and 1-2 TDs is my current projections), it's just I think he'll fall outside of RB1 range in production.

***As a side note, before someone pulls up a list of actual rushing/receiving statistics from last year, or averages from 2000-2004, or whatever, and tells me that I'm nuts for projecting the #16 back to hit those numbers, I'll point out that my projections in the vast majority of cases are for a full 16 game slate (except in cases of a known, degenerative condition like Marshall Faulks' knees or a rehabbing injury situation like Daunte Culpepper's catastrophic knee injury that make a full season for the player in question highly questionable before the fact of the approaching season - these exceptions happen on a case by case basis).

However, for example, out of last year's top 20 backs, only 9 played a full slate of 16 games. IMO, it is impossible to predict the many random situations which occur every year that cost even top players 1-3 games, or parts of games that ad up to 1-3 games (the flu, cramps, heat exhaustion, family tragedy/funerals, tweaked hamstring, etc.), so projections necessarily skew high (when compared to prior years' actual statistics for the entire season) the further down the rankings a person proceeds, as often the guys in the 10-30 (and below) range have often missed some time during an actual NFL season, for whatever reasons that cost a particular player a game here and there. However, my projections at any particular ranking are near the Points per Game #'s at those positions compared to prior year actuals (depending on the year or range of years that a critic may or may not include in their sample). - MW
Thanks for the info. Very insightful :thumbup: I have included my WR,QB ranking

WR top 30 (REDRAFT)

1)CJ

2)S SMITH

3)HOLT

4)FITZ

5)R MOSS

6)TO

7)HARRISON

8)CHAMBERS

9)PLAX

10)ROY

11)D JACKSON

12)WARD

13)BOLDIN

14)S MOSS

15)DRIVER

16)WAYNE

17)MASON

18)A JOHNSON

19)BRANCH

20)R SMITH

21)L EVENS

22)JOEY G

23)HOUSH

24)HORN

25)R BROWN

26)MATT JONES

27)KENNISON

28)K JOHNSON

29)KROB

30)MUHSIN

TOP 30 QB'S (REDRAFT)

1)P MANNING

2)HASS

3)BRADY

4)PALMER

5)E MANNING

6)D MC

7)BULGER

8)JAKE D

9)BLEDSOE

10)GREEN

11)VICK

12)FAVRE

13)C-PEP

14)PLUMMER

15)BROOKS

16)WARNER

17)KITNA

18)BREES

19)LEFTWICH

20)RIVERS

21)SIMMS

22)CARR

23)BIG BEN

24)VOLEK

25)MCNAIR

26)BRUNELL

27)GROSSMAN

28)BRAD JOHNSON

29)FRYE

30)A SMITH

let me know if I missed someone ;)

 
Mark's explanation above is an example of the reason I'd love to see far-out-of-consensus explanations linked to the rankings page. I don't care to see 15 guys tell me why Jackson is #7, but seeing the thinking of the 1 or 2 guys who see it differently is something I can contemplate. As WhoDat just said, I may not agree, but it gives me something more for consideration.

We've been talking about Jackson and Wimer in this thread, but there are many other staff rankings (by Mark and others) that defy consensus, and we could all benefit from the reasoning more than the number. It's a shame such a great site as FBG isn't taking that next step for its subscribers. Am I suggesting the consensus is right and a ranking way outside consensus is wrong? Of course not, but if all we have are numbers, the outliers will generally be ignored as 'weird.'

For example, I'd love to know why Antonio Bryant is ranked WR15 and Santana Moss WR32 by Wimer, or why Joey Galloway is ranked WR10 and Roy Williams WR30 by Tremblay. Keeping in mind that there are 32x2=64 starting WR spots in the NFL, I'd love to know why Mike Brown has M Williams Det as WR31 when he's currently at the bottom of his team's depth chart, or why Brown (and Marc Levin) rank Chris Henry among the top 60 WRs in all of football when most close the situation are suggesting Henry won't even be with the Bengals this year. Or Maurile Tremblay's ranking of Ashley Lelie at WR38 when he'll be his team's WR3 at best, or traded to who-knows-what kind of situation, or will hold out at worst.

I could go on and on with examples. I can't evaluate those outlying rankings because I don't know why the outlying rankings exist. Did the staff member miss some news? Did he not believe it? Is he basing his rankings on assumptions that news will change, therefore not on information available today? I don't know. There must be some reason to have rankings significantly different from that of 16 peers who have posted rankings, and it is the reasons that are valuable when looking at the exceptions, not just the rankings.

 
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Or Maurile Tremblay's ranking of Ashley Lelie at WR38 when he'll be his team's WR3 at best, or traded to who-knows-what kind of situation, or will hold out at worst.
Oops. Simple explanation: You caught an error.
 
Mark's explanation above is an example of the reason I'd love to see far-out-of-consensus explanations linked to the rankings page. I don't care to see 15 guys tell me why Jackson is #7, but seeing the thinking of the 1 or 2 guys who see it differently is something I can contemplate. As WhoDat just said, I may not agree, but it gives me something more for consideration.

We've been talking about Jackson and Wimer in this thread, but there are many other staff rankings (by Mark and others) that defy consensus, and we could all benefit from the reasoning more than the number. It's a shame such a great site as FBG isn't taking that next step for its subscribers. Am I suggesting the consensus is right and a ranking way outside consensus is wrong? Of course not, but if all we have are numbers, the outliers will generally be ignored as 'weird.'

For example, I'd love to know why Antonio Bryant is ranked WR15 and Santana Moss WR32 by Wimer, or why Joey Galloway is ranked WR10 and Roy Williams WR30 by Tremblay. Keeping in mind that there are 32x2=64 starting WR spots in the NFL, I'd love to know why Mike Brown has M Williams Det as WR31 when he's currently at the bottom of his team's depth chart, or why Brown (and Marc Levin) rank Chris Henry among the top 60 WRs in all of football when most close the situation are suggesting Henry won't even be with the Bengals this year. Or Maurile Tremblay's ranking of Ashley Lelie at WR38 when he'll be his team's WR3 at best, or traded to who-knows-what kind of situation, or will hold out at worst.

I could go on and on with examples. I can't evaluate those outlying rankings because I don't know why the outlying rankings exist. Did the staff member miss some news? Did he not believe it? Is he basing his rankings on assumptions that news will change, therefore not on information available today? I don't know. There must be some reason to have rankings significantly different from that of 16 peers who have posted rankings, and it is the reasons that are valuable when looking at the exceptions, not just the rankings.
I'd love to see that as well. I realize there are a lot of different audiences to cater to. And I would imagine the largest are people who want rankings they can use without having to do them themselves. Nothing wrong with that, that's one of the services FBG's provides.But there is also the segment of us that get more from the site out of having our views challenged so we can be conscious about the reasons we feel the way we do about a player. Not that there isn't content designed for people like us (the Faceoffs are a prime example), but I think what CP is saying would be a great addition.

 
Or Maurile Tremblay's ranking of Ashley Lelie at WR38 when he'll be his team's WR3 at best, or traded to who-knows-what kind of situation, or will hold out at worst.
Oops. Simple explanation: You caught an error.
Ah ha! Caught ya! :D I give Maurile a lot of credit for fessing up publicly when he could have just quietly changed it. I'm impressed. :thumbup: I know Jeff P. also made a change on a ranking earlier this offseason (I don't remember what) when someone asked him to give it further scrutiny.

I have no problem with outlying rankings if the person can somehow support them. If he can't, perhaps there is an error (as in this case) or some missed news (it happens), which could be caught if the outlying ranking had to be explained. I'm really not lobbying for a full-blown explanation in each case like Wimer gave concerning Jackson, but just something that gives me a sense that the staffmember thought it through and can let us know why he thought differently than most about a player.

I do wonder if the FBG brass underestimate how much subscribers in general rely on the consensus rankings (not me of course, who has a crystal ball I rely on :P ). I know it's cool to say make your own decisions, but the majority of people are going to rely on the 'experts.'

 
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Mark's explanation above is an example of the reason I'd love to see far-out-of-consensus explanations linked to the rankings page. I don't care to see 15 guys tell me why Jackson is #7, but seeing the thinking of the 1 or 2 guys who see it differently is something I can contemplate. As WhoDat just said, I may not agree, but it gives me something more for consideration.

We've been talking about Jackson and Wimer in this thread, but there are many other staff rankings (by Mark and others) that defy consensus, and we could all benefit from the reasoning more than the number. It's a shame such a great site as FBG isn't taking that next step for its subscribers. Am I suggesting the consensus is right and a ranking way outside consensus is wrong? Of course not, but if all we have are numbers, the outliers will generally be ignored as 'weird.'

For example, I'd love to know why Antonio Bryant is ranked WR15 and Santana Moss WR32 by Wimer, or why Joey Galloway is ranked WR10 and Roy Williams WR30 by Tremblay. Keeping in mind that there are 32x2=64 starting WR spots in the NFL, I'd love to know why Mike Brown has M Williams Det as WR31 when he's currently at the bottom of his team's depth chart, or why Brown (and Marc Levin) rank Chris Henry among the top 60 WRs in all of football when most close the situation are suggesting Henry won't even be with the Bengals this year. Or Maurile Tremblay's ranking of Ashley Lelie at WR38 when he'll be his team's WR3 at best, or traded to who-knows-what kind of situation, or will hold out at worst.

I could go on and on with examples. I can't evaluate those outlying rankings because I don't know why the outlying rankings exist. Did the staff member miss some news? Did he not believe it? Is he basing his rankings on assumptions that news will change, therefore not on information available today? I don't know. There must be some reason to have rankings significantly different from that of 16 peers who have posted rankings, and it is the reasons that are valuable when looking at the exceptions, not just the rankings.
:goodposting: I'd like to see an explanation for every ranking ideally, though I realize that would be quite a bit of work. Then I could choose whether or not I wanted to read all the justifications on Jackson at #7.

To reduce the workload, perhaps with the first set of "official" rankings, which might come with the literal first set or with some milestone (e.g., after 2 preseason games), someone could be tabbed to write the consensus opinion (the Jackson at #7 opinion), then all those who differ by some particular margin could simply write up why. This would reduce the overall workload compared to everyone explaining every ranking... but it almost would encourage people to conform to avoid having to do so much writing... and that would be bad.

And it would also mean certain people like Mark would probably have more writing to do... though such people might simply not be chosen to write as many consensus rankings.

Anyway, I know we don't live in an ideal world, so I'm not holding my breath. I'll take what is available and be happy about it.

 
Had an additional thought on this after having said how much I like the idea.

While I would like to see the reasons someone has an outlying pick, I do think it would be good to make sure what the staffer hears is, "It's fine that you have differ from others, we don't want group think... now let's put the why of it out there for the users."

In short, I'd hate to see supplying that kind of content encouraging group think. And I could see it happening unless a conscious effort was made to avoid it. Maybe not, but it's kind of human nature when asked to explain a decision, to put it under a more critical light. Sometimes that will result in deciding the ranking should have been different, but I'd rather hear why they originally had them there than see it result in everyone "falling into a line".

 
Wimer is the anti-joffer. If I like a guy, he's sure to not like him, and vice versa. It's spooky really. If anyone would like to see Wimer's rankings on a player change, let me know and I'll change mine accordingly. The effect is usually immediate :P

 
Had an additional thought on this after having said how much I like the idea.

While I would like to see the reasons someone has an outlying pick, I do think it would be good to make sure what the staffer hears is, "It's fine that you have differ from others, we don't want group think... now let's put the why of it out there for the users."

In short, I'd hate to see supplying that kind of content encouraging group think. And I could see it happening unless a conscious effort was made to avoid it. Maybe not, but it's kind of human nature when asked to explain a decision, to put it under a more critical light. Sometimes that will result in deciding the ranking should have been different, but I'd rather hear why they originally had them there than see it result in everyone "falling into a line".
One thing that David and Joe have made quite clear is that those of us on staff who contribute to the rankings need to be ready to explain them (all of them, not just the outliers, but the "normal" calls too) here on the board. As long as the questions are posed in a civil manner, I make my best effort to honestly lay out my analysis and projections, time permitting. In this instance, I wanted to append the note about my projections methodology/paradigm to help explicate how I reach the numbers I do (in general). I don't just look over joffer's shoulder and put everything opposite his rankings... :D

 
Mark's explanation above is an example of the reason I'd love to see far-out-of-consensus explanations linked to the rankings page. I don't care to see 15 guys tell me why Jackson is #7, but seeing the thinking of the 1 or 2 guys who see it differently is something I can contemplate.

We've been talking about Jackson and Wimer in this thread, but there are many other staff rankings (by Mark and others) that defy consensus, and we could all benefit from the reasoning more than the number. It's a shame such a great site as FBG isn't taking that next step for its subscribers. Am I suggesting the consensus is right and a ranking way outside consensus is wrong?
To some degree, this is already done via the face-offs. Many of those were arranged when one staffer is much higher or lower on a player than another.You can also see positives and negatives on player pages for most starters and even backups (especially on offense).

It's also a reason why these forums are so useful. You can find all sorts of contrarian opinions in the Shark Pool, many from the staffers, but even more from other posters that make excellent arguments.

 
If you hit Mark with a PM he'll respond in this thread and give you a very clear concise answer as to why he has any one particular player ranked higher or lower than most.
Oh, and be sure to ignore all Shick! rankings. Spending too much time moderating the Free For All has turned his brain to mush. (j/k :P )
No argument there from me. :mellow:
 
Mark's explanation above is an example of the reason I'd love to see far-out-of-consensus explanations linked to the rankings page.  I don't care to see 15 guys tell me why Jackson is #7, but seeing the thinking of the 1 or 2 guys who see it differently is something I can contemplate.  As WhoDat just said, I may not agree, but it gives me something more for consideration.

We've been talking about Jackson and Wimer in this thread, but there are many other staff rankings (by Mark and others) that defy consensus, and we could all benefit from the reasoning more than the number.  It's a shame such a great site as FBG isn't taking that next step for its subscribers.  Am I suggesting the consensus is right and a ranking way outside consensus is wrong?  Of course not, but if all we have are numbers, the outliers will generally be ignored as 'weird.'

For example, I'd love to know why Antonio Bryant is ranked WR15 and Santana Moss WR32 by Wimer, or why Joey Galloway is ranked WR10 and Roy Williams WR30 by Tremblay.  Keeping in mind that there are 32x2=64 starting WR spots in the NFL, I'd love to know why Mike Brown has M Williams Det as WR31 when he's currently at the bottom of his team's depth chart, or why Brown (and Marc Levin) rank Chris Henry among the top 60 WRs in all of football when most close the situation are suggesting Henry won't even be with the Bengals this year.  Or Maurile Tremblay's ranking of Ashley Lelie at WR38 when he'll be his team's WR3 at best, or traded to who-knows-what kind of situation, or will hold out at worst. 

I could go on and on with examples.  I can't evaluate those outlying rankings because I don't know why the outlying rankings exist.  Did the staff member miss some news?  Did he not believe it?  Is he basing his rankings on assumptions that news will change, therefore not on information available today?  I don't know.  There must be some reason to have rankings significantly different from that of 16 peers who have posted rankings, and it is the reasons that are valuable when looking at the exceptions, not just the rankings.
:goodposting: I'd like to see an explanation for every ranking ideally, though I realize that would be quite a bit of work. Then I could choose whether or not I wanted to read all the justifications on Jackson at #7.

To reduce the workload, perhaps with the first set of "official" rankings, which might come with the literal first set or with some milestone (e.g., after 2 preseason games), someone could be tabbed to write the consensus opinion (the Jackson at #7 opinion), then all those who differ by some particular margin could simply write up why. This would reduce the overall workload compared to everyone explaining every ranking... but it almost would encourage people to conform to avoid having to do so much writing... and that would be bad.

And it would also mean certain people like Mark would probably have more writing to do... though such people might simply not be chosen to write as many consensus rankings.

Anyway, I know we don't live in an ideal world, so I'm not holding my breath. I'll take what is available and be happy about it.
Somewhere in these two posts there is an excellent idea. I love the different rankings of the staff, but it is always the ones that are out of the norm that make you wonder where they came from. Hearing the sound reasoning behind those "wierd" rankings is some of the best food for thought that can be offered. In the end, we can go with that reasoning or chose to ignore it, but it would be great if it was somehow put together by the site. The forums provide a little of that now (as we have just seen), but not everyone wants to "call out" a staff member to bother them and ask for an explanation.PS

Yudkin - Get your rankings up here somewhere!

 
ROUNDING OUT MY RANKINGS

TOP 15 TE'S (REDRAFT)

1)GATES

2)SHOCKEY

3)GONZO

4)HEAP

5)COOLEY

6)ALGE

7)RANDY MC

8)DALLAS CLARK

9)LJ SMITH

10)KWII

11)STEVENS

12)HEATH MILLER

13)WATSON

14)V DAVIS

15)HILTON

 
Wimer has always been the one to have very different Rankings.
Yep. Which tells me it's not really just happening to have diff. rankings, but purposely making sure his rankings are different/"controversial" as some kind of attention-getter thing. ie he comes up with the contrary rankings first, rationales (or should I say rationalizations?) later. PS I'm all for differing opinions; I'd just rather it be more up front, ie maybe FBG could have him as the sort of token "contrary staff member," purposely making most/all of his rankings against the grain w/justification why.

 

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