Martz: Oregon Gunslinger will be back (1 Viewer)

[MSULions]

Lions' Martz thinks he can salvage Harrington's psyche

www.usatoday.com/sports/f...port_x.htm

New Detroit offensive coordinator Mike Martz admitted he was just like every Lions fan when it came to the perception of quarterback Joey Harrington.

"I came in prepared to think Joey was beyond reclaim, and that's not the case at all," Martz says. "The more tape I look at of him, the more excited I get about him.

"When you've been blamed for everything, you get defensive. I probably should know.

"That gunslinger I saw in Oregon will come back."

That's about as bold a quarterback guarantee as the one Joe Namath once delivered on in Super Bowl III. But if anyone can resurrect Harrington, it's Martz, a quarterback guru of the highest order.

Because if Martz can't reclaim Harrington, no one can.

Though the buzz at the combine was that new Lions head coach Rod Marinelli would make a big play for Drew Brees, Martz insists Harrington has the tools. But he needs more help on the offensive line, and he needs those talented but erratic receivers to be more disciplined in their route running and their video study.

Most of all, Harrington needs his confidence restored.

"He needs to understand that we believe in him and we think he is going to get it done," Martz says. "There's terrific potential there, and I'm the facilitator. It's my job to get it out of him."

 

[Ack88]

Whie Martz was a failure as a head coach, I take him at his words when it comes to quarterback play. His QBs consistently produced excellent fantasy totals. Harrington is a nice QB #2 for next year. The surrounding talent is there for a potentially solid season.

 

[Payne]

Whie Martz was a failure as a head coach, I take him at his words when it comes to quarterback play. His QBs consistently produced excellent fantasy totals. Harrington is a nice QB #2 for next year. The surrounding talent is there for a potentially solid season.

Yep. Those mocks showing the Detroit taking Cutler are going to be surprised.They have other, more important needs to fill.

That being said, IF the NFL doesn't reach an agreement, look for Detroit to go after Brees since most teams will not be able to afford him.

 

[Bri]

If he says that in August I'll agree with you guys. Saying it now could easily mean "so give us a 2nd round pick for him" or whatever.

 

[thayman]

Is it just me, or does it seem like every year, they say "This is it for Joey Harrington, if he can't prove himself this year then he never will"????

 

[Bri]

Is it just me, or does it seem like every year, they say "This is it for Joey Harrington, if he can't prove himself this year then he never will"????

Kyle Boller too

 

[Mungo Burrows]

Is it just me, or does it seem like every year, they say "This is it for Joey Harrington, if he can't prove himself this year then he never will"????

Kyle Boller too

[tedford]When do we add Aaron Rogers to the list?

[/tedford]

 

[thayman]

Is it just me, or does it seem like every year, they say "This is it for Joey Harrington, if he can't prove himself this year then he never will"????

Kyle Boller too

[tedford]When do we add Aaron Rogers to the list?

[/tedford]

I think he needs to take the field first.......hey he might do OK if Favre plays this year. If Favre retires this year and Rodgers takes the field....I think Packer fans are going to be in for a long couple of years

 

[Sinrman]

Lions' Martz thinks he can salvage Harrington's psyche

www.usatoday.com/sports/f...port_x.htm

New Detroit offensive coordinator Mike Martz admitted he was just like every Lions fan when it came to the perception of quarterback Joey Harrington.

"I came in prepared to think Joey was beyond reclaim, and that's not the case at all," Martz says. "The more tape I look at of him, the more excited I get about him.

"When you've been blamed for everything, you get defensive. I probably should know.

"That gunslinger I saw in Oregon will come back."

That's about as bold a quarterback guarantee as the one Joe Namath once delivered on in Super Bowl III. But if anyone can resurrect Harrington, it's Martz, a quarterback guru of the highest order.

Because if Martz can't reclaim Harrington, no one can.

Though the buzz at the combine was that new Lions head coach Rod Marinelli would make a big play for Drew Brees, Martz insists Harrington has the tools. But he needs more help on the offensive line, and he needs those talented but erratic receivers to be more disciplined in their route running and their video study.

Most of all, Harrington needs his confidence restored.

"He needs to understand that we believe in him and we think he is going to get it done," Martz says. "There's terrific potential there, and I'm the facilitator. It's my job to get it out of him."

As one who kept giving Harrington the benefit of the doubt, and giving him chance after chance after chance, I'm waaaaay past him now. Detroit needs to move on...

 

[Mungo Burrows]

Is it just me, or does it seem like every year, they say "This is it for Joey Harrington, if he can't prove himself this year then he never will"????

Kyle Boller too

[tedford]When do we add Aaron Rogers to the list?

[/tedford]

I think he needs to take the field first.......hey he might do OK if Favre plays this year. If Favre retires this year and Rodgers takes the field....I think Packer fans are going to be in for a long couple of years

Akili Smith has long been in the "never will" portion of the list.Trent Dilfer is the poster child for the "QB you don't ask to be a QB"

The trend seems to indicate it's only a matter of time...

 

[Fumbleweed]

Whie Martz was a failure as a head coach, I take him at his words when it comes to quarterback play. His QBs consistently produced excellent fantasy totals. Harrington is a nice QB #2 for next year. The surrounding talent is there for a potentially solid season.

I would disagree about Martz being a failure as a head coach. I would agree that his Ram tenure had its ups and downs, but he had some pretty good years there. He nearly won a Super Bowl coaching the Rams....no small feat even with the talent they had. They made the playoffs most of the other years.

 

[Captain Blowhard]

I understand the view that Harrington has had chances already...but I also understand Martz's track record speaks for itself and if Martz claims he can do this (make Joey successful), I will give Martz the benefit of the doubt.

Again, Martz's track record in this area speaks for itself.

 

[thayman]

I understand the view that Harrington has had chances already...but I also understand Martz's track record speaks for itself and if Martz claims he can do this (make Joey successful), I will give Martz the benefit of the doubt.

Again, Martz's track record in this area speaks for itself.

Very true....but at what point do the Lions cut bait with Harrington?? Last year everyone was saying "Well he has three first round WR's around him, so if he doesn't get it done this year he never will." Now this year it is "Well Mike Martz is in town" Will next year it be "Look he has LT, and the KC offensive line"? It just has to be beyond frustrating for a DET fan.

 

[Fumbleweed]

I understand the view that Harrington has had chances already...but I also understand Martz's track record speaks for itself and if Martz claims he can do this (make Joey successful), I will give Martz the benefit of the doubt.

Again, Martz's track record in this area speaks for itself.

Very true....but at what point do the Lions cut bait with Harrington?? Last year everyone was saying "Well he has three first round WR's around him, so if he doesn't get it done this year he never will." Now this year it is "Well Mike Martz is in town" Will next year it be "Look he has LT, and the KC offensive line"? It just has to be beyond frustrating for a DET fan.

"First round WR" does not equate to good WR necessarily. Draft position is misleading and those three receivers aren't nearly as good as they were "supposed" to be.

 

[thayman]

I understand the view that Harrington has had chances already...but I also understand Martz's track record speaks for itself and if Martz claims he can do this (make Joey successful), I will give Martz the benefit of the doubt.

Again, Martz's track record in this area speaks for itself.

Very true....but at what point do the Lions cut bait with Harrington?? Last year everyone was saying "Well he has three first round WR's around him, so if he doesn't get it done this year he never will." Now this year it is "Well Mike Martz is in town" Will next year it be "Look he has LT, and the KC offensive line"? It just has to be beyond frustrating for a DET fan.

"First round WR" does not equate to good WR necessarily. Draft position is misleading and those three receivers aren't nearly as good as they were "supposed" to be.

Very true. Of course in my opinion all of this is irrelevant. Things will never get better in DET until they get rid of Matt Millen. He must be one hell of a nice guy because unless he burns Ford Field down, I dont thik they will fire him.

 

[P Boy]

Full disclosure: Harrington/Garcia/Orlovsky (whichever DET is starting) are my #2 QB in a dynasty league.

That said, I'm extremely excited about the possibility that someone will get into Harrington's head and make him perform like he has the potential to do. If there is someone in the NFL who can do it, I would bank on Martz. He took Warner - who Ron Wolf & GB cast off and the NFL threw to the grocery bagging counter - and Wolf was & is considered a QB evaluator & developer on a level with very few peers - and turned him into a yardage & TD machine w/ STL. Warner turned in a 3 year stretch that is unparalleled in NFL history.

DET has some pieces in place - very talented WRs, a potentially very good RB, and a very solid TE. If Martz - and that is a big if - can get Harrington to start reading Ds properly and stop overthrowing his guys by 10 yds, Harrington could emerge as the biggest positive surprise in FF this coming year.

I'm no Martz fan as a HC, and many here have seen me deride his decisions as a HC, but as an O coordinator I'm willing to get my hopes up given his track record. If not Harrington, then hopefully Orlovsky.

 

[Jason Wood]

If Martz gets Harrington to play at a consistently high level, I don't see how anyone can ever argue again that he's not among the league's very best offensive minds.

If this Martz hype keeps going though, by the time fantasy drafts roll around, Harrington will likely be too big a "sleeper" for my tastes. If I could take Harrington in the very late rounds as a QB2 in 12-teams or a QB3 in 10-teams...I would consider it, but I'm guessing the Martz mania will make that difficult.

 

[Captain Blowhard]

I understand the view that Harrington has had chances already...but I also understand Martz's track record speaks for itself and if Martz claims he can do this (make Joey successful), I will give Martz the benefit of the doubt.

Again, Martz's track record in this area speaks for itself.

Very true....but at what point do the Lions cut bait with Harrington?? Last year everyone was saying "Well he has three first round WR's around him, so if he doesn't get it done this year he never will." Now this year it is "Well Mike Martz is in town" Will next year it be "Look he has LT, and the KC offensive line"? It just has to be beyond frustrating for a DET fan.

I think this year is the emphatic be-all end-all "put up or get out" with Harrington given now that Martz is the cherry on top of the sundae of chances Harrington has had.

 

[Texasmouth]

Is it just me, or does it seem like every year, they say "This is it for Joey Harrington, if he can't prove himself this year then he never will"????

Kyle Boller too

Give Kyle Boller a full season with his whole arsenal of talent, then we can call him a failure. His first season as a starter he had scrubs at WR and Heap was hurt. His second season he got hurt in the first friggin game. It takes a while to get back into the swing of things and establish some continuity with his receivers. His o-line was awful last year and he got nothing from the running game. He started to show that he was "getting it" towards the end of the season. I think Boller is a lot better than people are giving him credit for.You can also blame Harrington all you want but the honest truth is he has had horrible coaching, a poor supporting cast, and he has been on an awful team. Call these receivers what you want as well but I think they are the most over rated group in football. Rogers is a flake and a loser. Mike Williams is a slower, lazier Micheal Irvin. Roy Williams is an amazing talent but he is a horrible route runner and he never really brings it on game day. He looks lazy to me as well. Harrington cannot play in that west coast offense that Mooch was using. No one ever put any faith in the guy and never tried to game plan around him, they always wanted him to "change" to fit the system. I think Harrington makes some huge strides this season if given the chance and he might be in the running for come back player of the year, ala Drew Brees......

 

[Foosball God]

I understand the view that Harrington has had chances already...but I also understand Martz's track record speaks for itself and if Martz claims he can do this (make Joey successful), I will give Martz the benefit of the doubt.

Again, Martz's track record in this area speaks for itself.

Very true....but at what point do the Lions cut bait with Harrington?? Last year everyone was saying "Well he has three first round WR's around him, so if he doesn't get it done this year he never will." Now this year it is "Well Mike Martz is in town" Will next year it be "Look he has LT, and the KC offensive line"? It just has to be beyond frustrating for a DET fan.

I think this year is the emphatic be-all end-all "put up or get out" with Harrington given now that Martz is the cherry on top of the sundae of chances Harrington has had.

 

[blend]

I think this year is the emphatic be-all end-all "put up or get out" with Harrington given now that Martz is the cherry on top of the sundae of chances Harrington has had.

I'm a Joey backer and absent a ton of injuries, I think this is his final chance. But, just watch, KJ will go down, Roy will go down, CRog will smoke his way to a year suspension, BMW won't be able to leave the buffet line and the excuses will pile up again.

 

[Bri]

Give Kyle Boller a full season with his whole arsenal of talent, then we can call him a failure. His first season as a starter he had scrubs at WR and Heap was hurt. His second season he got hurt in the first friggin game. It takes a while to get back into the swing of things and establish some continuity with his receivers. His o-line was awful last year and he got nothing from the running game. He started to show that he was "getting it" towards the end of the season. I think Boller is a lot better than people are giving him credit for.

 

[Righetti]

if this guy can make Mike Williams into a legit WR, BMW should buy Martz a BMW

 

[Maelstrom]

You can also blame Harrington all you want but the honest truth is he has had horrible coaching, a poor supporting cast, and he has been on an awful team. Call these receivers what you want as well but I think they are the most over rated group in football. Rogers is a flake and a loser. Mike Williams is a slower, lazier Micheal Irvin. Roy Williams is an amazing talent but he is a horrible route runner and he never really brings it on game day. He looks lazy to me as well. Harrington cannot play in that west coast offense that Mooch was using. No one ever put any faith in the guy and never tried to game plan around him, they always wanted him to "change" to fit the system. I think Harrington makes some huge strides this season if given the chance and he might be in the running for come back player of the year, ala Drew Brees......

This is a very The WCO and Harrington (or WCO and the WRs) were not a good mix, and he had an ever changing group of WRs, TEs, RBs and a poor O-Line. How many of his "bad" throws were because of a bad route (WCO relies on timing between WR and QB and the WR has to be in the right spot at the right time). I'm not giving Harrington a completely clean slate (he deserves his share of the blame, and has taken it on sports radio here near Det), but I do think he has been misused and underappreciated. Add to that a changing cast of inexperianced or 2nd string WRs, and many young QBs would struggle.

The statement of Martz I liked the best so far this offseason was when he was asked what similarities his system was with the WCO and he said "None whatsoever." I am anxious to see what he can do with the Lions offense.

 

[King of the Jungle]

I am a die-hard Lion's fan (which equals a lot of pain and agony). I have cursed "Joey" many oh times. Last year I saw a major transformation in the kid though, particularily after he was benched. This is a guy who has been ridiculed for years by the media. He steps to the plate, acts like a man, and moves forward. I think he can be a leader for the team. He is mentally tough enough, has the physical skills to do so. As long as his supporting cast follows suit, we could see a major transformation in Detroit as soon as this season.

 

[footballguide1]

Football is a TEAM game and lets face it the Lions have been the hands down WORSE team as a whole this millenia.

In most sports the matchup is the important thing who fits or does not fit in a scheme, Harrington does not fit in a WCO scheme much like some RBs prefer zone blocking schemes and some prefer straight man-on-man schemes.

Look at Portis, when he was in Den the scheme played to his strength. When he came to Was the scheme did not fit him well and his stats suffered until Gibbs was smart enough to rework his scheme (unlike Morhniwig? and Mooch) and he had more success. Priest also was not in a correctt scheme and we know what happened when he was put in the correct situation.

Harrington ran a vertical style of offense @ ORlong throws and fewer crossing patterns, he throws well vertically but not horozontaly.

He will do well and be the comeback player of the year IMO.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Wow. Some bold statements. If Martz just wanted to pay Joey lip service, he certainly didn't have to go this far.

It seems safe to say that they really do like Harrington, although the Lions' favorable cap position could allow them to pursue Brees anyway.

 

[The Jerk]

I thought by now we'd see a post or two asking how many QBs have played four mediocre (at best) years, then gone on to have a good career and/or lead a team to a Super Bowl appearance.

So I've gone ahead and looked up a few QBs who I feel fit this description:

Phil Simms (thru 3 years, had 39 TDs and 42 INTs)

Troy Aikman (thru 3 years, had 31 TDs and 46 INTs)

More recently...

Rich Gannon (thru 6 years, 3+ as a starter, had 43 TDs and 42 INTs)

Drew Brees (thru 3 years had 29 TDs and 31 INTs)

Harrington has 60 TDs and 62 INTs through 4 seasons.

Clearly there is more that could be done with this analysis than just looking at TDs and INTs, but it certainly is interesting to consider. I'm not saying Harrington will end up being as successful as any of these QBs, but it is clear that it CAN be done. One of the key elements in each QBs success was being surrounded by better talent in later years. Another aspect is finding a system that matches the individual strength of these QBs. Your guess is as good as mine whether either of those situations are emerging in Detroit.

 

[-OZ-]

This is great news for Harrington owners.

Until he gets outplayed by Dan Orlovsky.

 

[azgroover]

He will do well and be the comeback player of the year IMO.

I wouldn't think he would qualify for the award since he had never arrived before regressing.

 

[-OZ-]

He will do well and be the comeback player of the year IMO.

I wouldn't think he would qualify for the award since he had never arrived before regressing.

"Most improved" - sure.

Comeback implies he was good before.

 

[Verbal Kint]

Whie Martz was a failure as a head coach, I take him at his words when it comes to quarterback play. His QBs consistently produced excellent fantasy totals. Harrington is a nice QB #2 for next year. The surrounding talent is there for a potentially solid season.

Yep. Those mocks showing the Detroit taking Cutler are going to be surprised.They have other, more important needs to fill.

That being said, IF the NFL doesn't reach an agreement, look for Detroit to go after Brees since most teams will not be able to afford him.

Yeah, like WR

 

[redkush]

He will do well and be the comeback player of the year IMO.

I wouldn't think he would qualify for the award since he had never arrived before regressing.

"Most improved" - sure.

Comeback implies he was good before.

Like Brees was good before he was named comback player of the year?

 

[Captain Blowhard]

I thought by now we'd see a post or two asking how many QBs have played four mediocre (at best) years, then gone on to have a good career and/or lead a team to a Super Bowl appearance.

So I've gone ahead and looked up a few QBs who I feel fit this description:

Phil Simms (thru 3 years, had 39 TDs and 42 INTs)

Troy Aikman (thru 3 years, had 31 TDs and 46 INTs)

More recently...

Rich Gannon (thru 6 years, 3+ as a starter, had 43 TDs and 42 INTs)

Drew Brees (thru 3 years had 29 TDs and 31 INTs)

Harrington has 60 TDs and 62 INTs through 4 seasons.

Clearly there is more that could be done with this analysis than just looking at TDs and INTs, but it certainly is interesting to consider. I'm not saying Harrington will end up being as successful as any of these QBs, but it is clear that it CAN be done. One of the key elements in each QBs success was being surrounded by better talent in later years. Another aspect is finding a system that matches the individual strength of these QBs. Your guess is as good as mine whether either of those situations are emerging in Detroit.

Harrington catches more grief over the Lions w-l record than his stats. As your stats show, Aikman had mediocre stats--but he did some winning in there within his first 3-4 years.Then again, Aikman would have washed out of the league had he had to endure the idiocy of Moronweg and Mooch and that Detroit team in his first four years in the league.

Harrington is capable. Let's see what Martz can do.