What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Marvin Harrison's career without Peyton Manning (1 Viewer)

And why do we even want to care about this? What done is done with Harrison. I admire his career and respect him as a professional football player.

 
And why do we even want to care about this? What done is done with Harrison. I admire his career and respect him as a professional football player.
While true that what is done is done, it makes you wonder. Harrison is a sure fire hall of famer. Without Manning, maybe he isn't. With Manning, what players would be hall of famers that are currently really good but not great players. Such questions highlights football as a true team sport and how well a player performs is dependent upon how well their teammates are playing.
 
And why do we even want to care about this? What done is done with Harrison. I admire his career and respect him as a professional football player.
While true that what is done is done, it makes you wonder. Harrison is a sure fire hall of famer. Without Manning, maybe he isn't. With Manning, what players would be hall of famers that are currently really good but not great players. Such questions highlights football as a true team sport and how well a player performs is dependent upon how well their teammates are playing.
I'm willing to give Harrison the credit he deserves for the great career he has had.
 
And why do we even want to care about this? What done is done with Harrison. I admire his career and respect him as a professional football player.
While true that what is done is done, it makes you wonder. Harrison is a sure fire hall of famer. Without Manning, maybe he isn't. With Manning, what players would be hall of famers that are currently really good but not great players. Such questions highlights football as a true team sport and how well a player performs is dependent upon how well their teammates are playing.
well there's the other QB that he'd be playing with. What if marvin was on the packers, would it matter re peyton vs marvin? what if marvin were on the rams opposite bruce?I completely agree about the team sport angle, while maybe obvious -good point.
 
Harrison was the best route runner I have ever seen this side of Jerry Rice. He was always open and caught everything. He has no real weaknesses. Of course, it can only help to play with a QB like Manning and that has to help the overall numbers, but Harrison is a great player in his own right and there is no doubt to me that he would have been a hall of famer regardless of where he played.

 
Interesting, although this might be chicken vs. egg. Would Peyton have developed as well as he did without one of the best WRs in the league for his first 9 years? Obviously he's great now without Marvin, but those formative years were key.

I always thought of these two as a symbiotic relationship, they needed each other to thrive. Either could have been good without the other, but neither would be PEYTON MANNING or MARVIN HARRISON

 
Would Peyton be Peyton without Harrison?? Let’s be clear: I don’t know. You don’t know. I’ll never know. You’ll never know.

 
Harrison was the best route runner I have ever seen this side of Jerry Rice. He was always open and caught everything. He has no real weaknesses. Of course, it can only help to play with a QB like Manning and that has to help the overall numbers, but Harrison is a great player in his own right and there is no doubt to me that he would have been a hall of famer regardless of where he played.
And also the best I have ever seen at those sideline catches.Just lets his feet go dead and almost always gets both down.But this argument can be made for alot of guys.Would Swann have been so good without Bradshaw (or vice versa).Rice without Montana and Young? Or those two without Rice?Great players tend to also have great players around them.
 
Rice without Montana and Young? Or those two without Rice?
Unlike Marvin Harrison, we've got a lot of data points on Rice without Montana or Young.http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=131

# In 1986, Rice’s second year, Montana only played 8 games. The other 8 featured Jeff Kemp and Mike Moroski at the QB position for the 49ers. Kemp and Moroski threw 47 percent of the team’s passes that year. Rice had 1570 yards and 15 TDs on the season, leading the league in both categories.

# In 1991, Steve Young spent some time on the shelf. Steve Bono and Bill Musgrave threw 242 passes that year, 46 percent of the team’s total. Rice’s numbers were 1206 and 14.

# In 1995, Young was injured again, and Elvis Grbac threw 30 percent of the 49ers passes. Rice had 1848 receiving yards and 15 TDs.

# In 1996, Grbac and Jeff Brohm threw 42 percent of the 49ers passes. Rice went for 1254 and 8.

So during those four seasons, during which Kemp, Moroski, Bono, Grbac, and Brohm were QBing the 49ers 41 percent of the time, Rice averaged 1470 and 13. And really only one of those seasons was during what would typically be considered a wide receiver’s prime years.

During the 9 games where Young did not play during 95 and 96 (plus a game where he threw only one pass), Rice had 908 yards and 9 TDs. That comes out to 1453/14 over a 16-game season. So Jerry Rice, at age 33 and 34, with Elvis Grbac and Jeff Brohm at QB and Derrick Loville and Terry Kirby at RB, was putting up numbers that could arguably pass for the best season of Cris Carter’s or Steve Largent’s career.

And then there are the Jeff Garcia and the Rich Gannon years.

Rice’s two worst seasons to date were the two seasons when Garcia was the 49ers primary QB. In 1999, he went for 830/5, and he posted 805/7 in 2000. But he had a good excuse: he was 37 (and 38) years old. Only two receivers in NFL history, Rice and Charlie Joiner, have caught 800 yards worth of passes at age 37 or older. Only a hanful of receivers in NFL history have caught any passes at age 37 or older. It’s easy to be blinded by the standard Rice had set for himself, but apart from one Charlie Joiner season, these two disappointing seasons were the best in NFL history for a man of his age. And then he moved to Oakland and blew those seasons away.
 
Rice had 76 100-yard games in his career. Here they are by QB:

Young - 28

Montana - 26

Other - 22 <---- Gannon (8), Grbac (5), Kemp (4), Garcia (2), Mirer (1), Bono (1), Hasselbeck (1)

To put that in perspective, only 61 players in NFL history have more than 22 100-yard receiving games in their entire careers. Rice has that many even if you don't count the Young/Montana ones.

The point made by FUBAR about formative years is a good one, though.

 
Excellent stuff. And Marvin should thank the lord every single night for the place that he ended up. :goodposting:
I agree and I think many players turned into HOF players because of where they ended up. The first one that comes to mind for me is Joe Montana. I think Montana would have been a middle of the pack QB had he not ended up in SF and a system that fit him perfectly, plus a cast of talented offensive players around him to execute the system.I always felt if Barry Sanders had been drafted by the Cowboys and Emmitt Smith by the Lions that Barry would have had 20 thousand yards rushing and we would be saying Emmitt who??
 
Harrison was the best route runner I have ever seen this side of Jerry Rice. He was always open and caught everything. He has no real weaknesses. Of course, it can only help to play with a QB like Manning and that has to help the overall numbers, but Harrison is a great player in his own right and there is no doubt to me that he would have been a hall of famer regardless of where he played.
Small, and goes down prior to contact.Big Harrison fan, but he he has weaknesses.

 
Excellent stuff. And Marvin should thank the lord every single night for the place that he ended up. :D
I agree and I think many players turned into HOF players because of where they ended up. The first one that comes to mind for me is Joe Montana. I think Montana would have been a middle of the pack QB had he not ended up in SF and a system that fit him perfectly, plus a cast of talented offensive players around him to execute the system.I always felt if Barry Sanders had been drafted by the Cowboys and Emmitt Smith by the Lions that Barry would have had 20 thousand yards rushing and we would be saying Emmitt who??
Point taken, but for posters after you, I request that we not turn this into another Emmitt/Barry debate.
 
Excellent stuff. And Marvin should thank the lord every single night for the place that he ended up. :thumbup:
I agree and I think many players turned into HOF players because of where they ended up. The first one that comes to mind for me is Joe Montana. I think Montana would have been a middle of the pack QB had he not ended up in SF and a system that fit him perfectly, plus a cast of talented offensive players around him to execute the system.I always felt if Barry Sanders had been drafted by the Cowboys and Emmitt Smith by the Lions that Barry would have had 20 thousand yards rushing and we would be saying Emmitt who??
Point taken, but for posters after you, I request that we not turn this into another Emmitt/Barry debate.
Back to the OP, Harrison would not be in the league right now. I feel he would have done OK in his 20s, nothing great but a decent NFL WR, but he would have been out of the league for a couple of years by now.
 
They made each other Hall of Famers.

I believe Peyton Manning would have gotten there without Marvin Harrison. I do not believe Harrison would be a HOF without Manning.

Maybe Harrison could have been great with a different QB but not with signal-callers like Aaron Brooks or Mark Brunell for example.

 
Rice had 76 100-yard games in his career. Here they are by QB:Young - 28Montana - 26Other - 22 <---- Gannon (8), Grbac (5), Kemp (4), Garcia (2), Mirer (1), Bono (1), Hasselbeck (1)To put that in perspective, only 61 players in NFL history have more than 22 100-yard receiving games in their entire careers. Rice has that many even if you don't count the Young/Montana ones.The point made by FUBAR about formative years is a good one, though.
WowI mean, we all know he was great, but Wow.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top