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Masks and Mother-in-laws (1 Viewer)

Zow

Footballguy
Feels like forever that I've posted a topic about a personal issue/conflict - which is likely the result of working a million hours and being a dad in a good marriage. But, something occurred today that I'm struggling on figuring out the best way moving forward. My inclination is to do nothing and pretend like it didn't happen, but as you'll read maybe that's not the best course. Also, this isn't meant to be a political thread (although I concede I considered putting it there). But, that's not really my focus and my focus is moreso on handling the issue. 

Background: I probably have a "normal" relationship with my MIL. We don't agree politically (she thinks Hillary has literally killed people assassination style) and sometimes endure an unspoken tension (she's used to being in charge and I'm not terribly keen on adhering to unreasonable requests) but she's a really good grandmother to my kids and has helped us a ton with them so we generally get along by tolerating one another. The majority of my wife's family is very pro-Trump, and while I'd describe my wife and I as pretty moderate, to them we are raging liberals. 

Regarding masks, I think consisent with our political leaning (not that the two should be entwined), we prefer to adhere to the CDC guidelines but aren't opposed to socializing or being out in public. MIL, oddly despite two of our close relatives getting Covid-19, thinks Covid-19 isn't a big deal and the mask mandates to be some overblown liberal political thing (or whatever the current FoxNews position is). 

Scenario: We were spending the weekend with my in-laws and my wife's sister and her family. We spent Saturday at a hanging out at a town known for Halloween with the plan on Sunday (today) to go to a very popular pumpkin patch about 45 minutes away. We've done this now like 5 years in a row so it's a "family thing." The town we were at yesterday and staying at had a mask mandate and the establishments we went to did have reasonable protocols in place. This morning I took my kids and my niece and nephew to the park to get them out of the house so the rest could pack up. While there, I noticed another set of parents stand close to me by the swings without masks on. I just moved without saying anything. Also, my kids were being awful. The combination of such got me thinking about the pumpkin patch, I remembered the crowds, and it got me thinking about what sort of precautions they would take. So, I googled it and yelped it. The reviews for this year were in comical contrast depending on the authors' positions on masks, but overwhelmingly the theme was "this place is taking no Covid-19 precautions." The post was either "if you're anti-mask this is a great place!" or "OMG I'm rated this 1 star simply because there ae NO Covid-19 precautions taken." 

My thought process at this point was two-fold. First, my wife and I are set to adopt two of our kids by the end of the year. But, because we haven't yet, they technically are in the legal custody of the state. Accordingly, my worry is that it's borderine neglect to assume the risk for them when it's technically not our call yet. Second, my work is currently incredibly busy/slammed and my office is taking the pandemic very seriously. As such, should I test positive/catch Covid-19, I'm out for at least a two week quarantine. This would cost my family and me literally thousands of dollars. So, I screen shot a number of the reviews and text the concerns to my wife. I do not say I'm refusing to go, but that I'm very concerned and we should talk about it. 

Fast forward about 15 minutes and I arrive back to the vrbo with the kids. My wife is noticeably upset and fighting off tears. Nobody is really saying anything. She tells me that the car is loaded up and we're going. As we're getting the kids in the car she tells me she's furious with her mother. She tells me she shared my text and the reviews with her mom and sister to essentially prepare them for the possibility that we may now pass this year. While her sister wanted to argue that I was just wrong about the mask thing (expected) and that I didn't express the concern the day before when we went to a winery and a restauarnt (again, the establishments took the recommended precautions and masks were worn and the tables distanced), apparently my mother-in-law took it step further and proclaimed I was only buying into the Covid-19 issue as an excuse and I really just wanted to go home early to watch football (while reportedly rolling her eyes). This very much angered my wife and she told her mom that it wasn't true, that I had a point she wanted to consider, and that what she said was very mean. She was so mad that we just left right away, drove about a mile, and got out and talked about it. At that point she said she was so upset with her mom that she didn't want to go for that reason. We then went and ate lunch on our own and went to another much smaller but much more Covid-19 safe pumpkin patch by where we live so as to not disappoint our kids. 

Current issue: MIL wants to call us and apologize. She did text an apology to my wife. My FIL called my wife and apologized for MIL and explained it as her not thinking about what she was saying. Oddly, the comment doesn't really bother me a whole lot because I really don't give much weight to her input on issues like these or what she thinks of me. It's been an issue in the past where I've had sports I've played (golf and softball tournaments) conflict with some family outings planned after I had committed and I know she disagrees with my decision to still go play. Given that my wife is very reasonable with those conflicts, I don't let my MIL's disagreement bother me. As such, I don't care much about her comment here and the fact that she errantly assumes I'm prioritizing sports over family. But, because of that, I really don't want to talk to her on the phone and I fear that if she tries to explain herself or get into the issue that my lack of concern for her input will come out. I told my wife to tell her it's fine. My wife, understandably, is worried that this may be a bigger issue and we are likely set to see them again in a week or two. 

How would you deal with this? Big deal or little deal? I don't think this is a big deal but I can tell my wife does. From my perspective, I view my MIL as somebody I want to continue to have in my life because she's great for my kids but I have no desire at this point, and I presume the foreseeable future, to have dinner with just her or do an adults only trip with her or whatever. So, that's the relationship I'm looking to preserve/maintain here. 

 
Tl;dr: MIL interpreted me expressing concern about taking my kids to a crowded place with no Covid-19 precautions as me just secretly wanting to watch football and not spend time with family. Wife very upset by her interpretation. How to address it going forward for family harmony?

 
I think I'd pretty much let your wife handle it.  It's her job to deal with her family, just as it's your job to deal with yours.  It does suck.  Just support your wife.

(And I agree- the adoption issue brings a whole other level to the discussion.  And congrats on the expanding family.  That sounds like a wonderful end to a truly odd year.)

 
I think I'd pretty much let your wife handle it.  It's her job to deal with her family, just as it's your job to deal with yours.  It does suck.  Just support your wife.

(And I agree- the adoption issue brings a whole other level to the discussion.  And congrats on the expanding family.  That sounds like a wonderful end to a truly odd year.)
Yup. This is your wife's job to smooth it over. 

 
Definitely sounds frustrating.  It also sounds like a lot of people making assumptions or speaking through others rather than communicating directly with each other.  Lastly, none of what you outlined sounds overly cautious about COVID, so I’m not sure a) why they think you are over-doing this whole thing, or b) why you are worried about the pumpkin place given that you are in frequent, close proximity with a woman (MIL) who thinks this is a hoax and thus is the likely family vector anyway.

In the weird times we live in now, my starting point is to assume everyone is reacting based on fear, at all times.......and so I try to bite my tongue and just give people a pass.  It’s hard to do, I’m not great at it, but.....yeah, I just keep trying to pause and count to 10 before responding.  And then I try not to escalate.

Good luck man.  As others have said, this is your wife’s family, so it really is hers to own.

 
So what game was on your radar?
See that’s the thing: I’m a Vikings fan. They’re on bye. And they’re terrible this year. So, actually really was perfect timing for this trip. :shrug:

I did have the chargers in a high dollar eliminator pool but I’d have been fine just monitoring the phone...

 
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I seriously can't believe we're in a position where whether or not to wear a piece of cloth over your face (which at the very least CAN'T HURT in preventing the spread of a sometimes deadly disease) is causing fights and dividing families on this level.

I get that the issue of masks isn't REALLY what this was about (more about MIL's assumption of your "true intentions") but man.....Our great, great grand-kids are going to look back on this 100 years from now and be absolutely dumbfounded that we got to this point.  Its absolutely insane.

 
It sounds like your wife wants you at least to listen to MIL's apology, so do that. Either she will come across as sincere and considerate, or she won't. If she doesn't, try not to be dismissive, but clarify the ground rules moving forward - ie. you and your family will follow the CDC's guidance to the best of your ability, and not de-legitimize the threat covid poses. Explain this is non-negotiable, but only a temporary inconvenience.

Let your wife know your plan before the call so she can prepare herself for the aftermath.

 
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Tl;dr: MIL interpreted me expressing concern about taking my kids to a crowded place with no Covid-19 precautions as me just secretly wanting to watch football and not spend time with family. Wife very upset by her interpretation. How to address it going forward for family harmony?
I don't know about your MIL, but I have a family member who has a habit of misinterpreting and twisting situations — either to make others look bad, or to make themselves look good. What I've found is that there is no point in attempting to explain your POV to them, because they're not going to change. And, they seem to enjoy it when you get defensive or when you're "upset" by their interpretation of reality.

What I've noticed is if you're "below" this person in the family hierarchy, then you have little choice but to silently accept what the person says and basically let them be who they are. But, if you are "above" the person in the hierarchy — if you have some power or control that you can wield over them, such as grandchildren — then you can basically tell them to go to hell and they will back down.

 
Agree with the others--let your wife handle it how she deems is the best way.  Your role is to be completely supportive of your wife.  On a side note that is nothing but pure speculation or gut instinct on my part--MIL didn't act the way she did or say what she did because she thought you wanted to watch football. I would bet the underlying reasons why she said what she did is because you guys have political differences and football was just a convenient scapegoat to mask the real reasoning that she was implying.  

 
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I'd send a text saying the safety of your family come before family outings, and you will be the one to determine what is safe and it is not open for discussion.

There is no good reason to defer to your wife  that puts her in a tough spot. If you take charge, then she can says she has to defer to you and it will be easier for her with her mother. 

 
Zow said:
Fast forward about 15 minutes and I arrive back to the vrbo with the kids. My wife is noticeably upset and fighting off tears. Nobody is really saying anything. She tells me that the car is loaded up and we're going. As we're getting the kids in the car she tells me she's furious with her mother. She tells me she shared my text and the reviews with her mom and sister to essentially prepare them for the possibility that we may now pass this year.

To me, this is the first issue. By sharing the text, the whole conflict appears to come from you and not you and your wife. Thus, it gives your mother-in-law ammo. 

While her sister wanted to argue that I was just wrong about the mask thing (expected) and that I didn't express the concern the day before when we went to a winery and a restauarnt (again, the establishments took the recommended precautions and masks were worn and the tables distanced), 

This is a very good point. After spending a whole day with you and your family, it seems reasonable to see why all of a sudden it is not acceptable to hang out with them. Now, I completely understand where you are coming from - I would be the same way. Just trying to see both sides of this.

apparently my mother-in-law took it step further and proclaimed I was only buying into the Covid-19 issue as an excuse and I really just wanted to go home early to watch football (while reportedly rolling her eyes). 

This is where I think the underlying issue is. Has this happened before - situations with that side of the family where you have skipped out on stuff to watch football?  Because if so, this issue is more than just the Covid thing.

Current issue: MIL wants to call us and apologize. She did text an apology to my wife. My FIL called my wife and apologized for MIL and explained it as her not thinking about what she was saying. 

So, let her call and apologize. I see nothing wrong with that, and this is a family issue. Not just a wife issue. To me, you guys talk to her about this together, because ultimately you all have to co-exist together. 

How would you deal with this? Big deal or little deal? I don't think this is a big deal but I can tell my wife does. From my perspective, I view my MIL as somebody I want to continue to have in my life because she's great for my kids but I have no desire at this point, and I presume the foreseeable future, to have dinner with just her or do an adults only trip with her or whatever. So, that's the relationship I'm looking to preserve/maintain here. 
See above. Personally this doesn't seem like a big deal to me. As parents, I think you did the right thing. Your #1 goal is to ALWAYS do what is best for your kids.  

 
I remember when lots of people had different beliefs than their parents/in-laws and no one really cared. I remember when neighbors would wave and chat rather than having competitions to see who can put up bigger and more antagonizing signs in their yard. I remember when kids in school became friends based on common interests and had no idea what other kids political affiliations were. This divisive world we live in today really sucks. Good luck.

 
See above. Personally this doesn't seem like a big deal to me. As parents, I think you did the right thing. Your #1 goal is to ALWAYS do what is best for your kids.  
Appreciate these points. 

1. To somebody who thinks this whole Covid-19 is overblown, she probably can't distinguish between attending a place taking precautions versus one that isn't because she thinks the former is entirely useless. So, I anticipated this perspective and, in this situation, my wife and I didn't have a problem with that point/opinion being raised. 

2.  I do not believe I have ever skipped out on family events to watch football. I have previously missed what I'd consider minor family events when I had previously commited to playing in a sports tournament. I have requested sports be on TV during Thanksgiving day when we aren't eating, or around Christmas time but have always turned it off when appropriate. I am also playing waaaaay less sports than when I met my wife. So, from my perspective, the answer to your question is "no." However, my FIL, who is perhaps one of the most selfless people I've met and, from what I can tell, has no discernible hobbies or interests outside of work and family time, has, from my perspective, given my MIL has false picture of what is "normal." So, she'd probably answer your question with a "yes." 

3. Yeah, I'll probably just smile and tell her no big deal next time I talk to her. She did call my wife last night (while I was watching football :lmao:  ) and apparently things are smoothed over a bit. This was helped by a concession that the reviews I read were correct and that they didn't have a great time because it wound up being cold and windy. The explanation provided to my wife was that my MIL didn't mean it and that she was just upset that we may not be going and placed blame where she could. Now, I suspect that was manufactured with my input by my FIL and I'm not buying it, but as previously stated I don't really care much about and it made my wife happy. So, any potential drama and crisis averted I think.  

 
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jvdesigns2002 said:
Agree with the others--let your wife handle it how she deems is the best way.  Your role is to be completely supportive of your wife.  On a side note that is nothing but pure speculation or gut instinct on my part--MIL didn't act the way she did or say what she did because she thought you wanted to watch football. I would bet the underlying reasons why she said what she did is because you guys have political differences and football was just a convenient scapegoat to mask the real reasoning that she was implying.  
Eh, I'm not so entirely sure. Honestly, and I don't know this for certain, but I think she views my wife as being wrongly subservient to me because my wife sometimes does consult with me on family decisions and, on rare occasions, does defer to me if there's a disagreement. In my MIL's and SIL's family the women are very much in charge of family activities. So, and again I don't know this to be true, I think the comment was a criticism of the fact that my wife will defer to me on occasion and that is exacerbated in an instance where my input runs contrary to my MIL's and means us possibly not doing what is considered a mandatory yearly family activity. So, essentially, a perfect storm where I'm the bad guy from her perspective. 

 
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Terminalxylem said:
It sounds like your wife wants you at least to listen to MIL's apology, so do that. Either she will come across as sincere and considerate, or she won't. If she doesn't, try not to be dismissive, but clarify the ground rules moving forward - ie. you and your family will follow the CDC's guidance to the best of your ability, and not de-legitimize the threat covid poses. Explain this is non-negotiable, but only a temporary inconvenience.

Let your wife know your plan before the call so she can prepare herself for the aftermath.
In a vacuum this seems like sound advice, but given your horrible stance on cheesecake it's just all discredited and can't be taken seriously. 

 
Alex P Keaton said:
Definitely sounds frustrating.  It also sounds like a lot of people making assumptions or speaking through others rather than communicating directly with each other.  Lastly, none of what you outlined sounds overly cautious about COVID, so I’m not sure a) why they think you are over-doing this whole thing, or b) why you are worried about the pumpkin place given that you are in frequent, close proximity with a woman (MIL) who thinks this is a hoax and thus is the likely family vector anyway.

In the weird times we live in now, my starting point is to assume everyone is reacting based on fear, at all times.......and so I try to bite my tongue and just give people a pass.  It’s hard to do, I’m not great at it, but.....yeah, I just keep trying to pause and count to 10 before responding.  And then I try not to escalate.

Good luck man.  As others have said, this is your wife’s family, so it really is hers to own.
Just to address this point -- I see it and get it. But, my MIL is actually a creature of habit with a pretty regular/boring schedule. Unless it's a family event the most social thing she does is go to the grocery store and occasionally a restaurant. So, while she likely isn't taking precautions, she's not exactly going to heavily crowded events. Plus, in weighing the risks, she's a great grandma and my kids should see her pretty frequently so I think it's a risk worth taken. In comparison, a crowded pumpkin patch taking zero precautions didn't seem like a worthwhile risk (given that there was a safe alternative and we had already spent most of the weekend with the family we were there to see). 

 
Just to address this point -- I see it and get it. But, my MIL is actually a creature of habit with a pretty regular/boring schedule. Unless it's a family event the most social thing she does is go to the grocery store and occasionally a restaurant. So, while she likely isn't taking precautions, she's not exactly going to heavily crowded events. Plus, in weighing the risks, she's a great grandma and my kids should see her pretty frequently so I think it's a risk worth taken. In comparison, a crowded pumpkin patch taking zero precautions didn't seem like a worthwhile risk (given that there was a safe alternative and we had already spent most of the weekend with the family we were there to see). 
Makes sense.  Just to be clear, I’m not judging your decisions or anyone else’s.  That didn’t come through in my comments - but it is sincere.

 
I'm curious about a couple of things:

- Why not show up at the pumpkin patch and see what things look like for yourself? Your concerns are built on the Yelp comments from complete strangers. And if things really do appear unsafe upon arrival, it seems completely reasonable to speak up at that point. Maybe have a Plan B in your back pocket to keep the kids from being too upset?

- What type of safety precautions are you expecting from a pumpkin patch, exactly? Isn't it outside? Plenty of land for comfortable social distancing? I'm not taking the side of your inlaws here, but that sounds like a pretty COVID-safe environment from the outset if you're smart about keeping distance.

I'm just trying to understand your position. If you're afraid of being in the presence of people who are distanced outdoors without a mask on (as your park incident kinda indicates) at this point in the pandemic, I have a feeling this is as much about your unresolved uncomfortable feelings about the realities of the pandemic as it is about your mother in law's political leanings.

I guess what I'm saying: Participating in public events on Saturday and refusing to do an outdoor event on Sunday based on Yelp reviews sounds exactly like what someone who wanted a day full of NFL games would do. 😉

 
I'm curious about a couple of things:

- Why not show up at the pumpkin patch and see what things look like for yourself? Your concerns are built on the Yelp comments from complete strangers. And if things really do appear unsafe upon arrival, it seems completely reasonable to speak up at that point. Maybe have a Plan B in your back pocket to keep the kids from being too upset?

- What type of safety precautions are you expecting from a pumpkin patch, exactly? Isn't it outside? Plenty of land for comfortable social distancing? I'm not taking the side of your inlaws here, but that sounds like a pretty COVID-safe environment from the outset if you're smart about keeping distance.

I'm just trying to understand your position. If you're afraid of being in the presence of people who are distanced outdoors without a mask on (as your park incident kinda indicates) at this point in the pandemic, I have a feeling this is as much about your unresolved uncomfortable feelings about the realities of the pandemic as it is about your mother in law's political leanings.

I guess what I'm saying: Participating in public events on Saturday and refusing to do an outdoor event on Sunday based on Yelp reviews sounds exactly like what someone who wanted a day full of NFL games would do. 😉
Reasonable questions. Here are my reasonable responses: 

1. My children are ages 3, 4, 5, and 6. They can be easily distracted and forget plans, but if we pull up to a big pumpkin patch only to hear daddy explain that the place isn't being safe enough for a threat they cannot see or comprehend, they're going to be upset and the 1.5 hr. drive home would be awful. Additionally, the place was 30 minutes in the opposite direction of our house so driving out there to see, when the reviews online were very consistent (and turned out to be accurate), seems a risk of a total waste of an hour. Lastly, should my wife suggested this when I got back to the vrbo to talk to her, I would have considered it as a viable option. As events unfolded, my wife and I never even had the conversation of how to handle because my MIL's comments got upset her enough to where she didn't want to be around MIL. 

2. While it is a pumpkin patch outside, there are a significant number of booths, indoor/barn events, hayrides, kids' rides, and eating areas that get really crowded and have lines. The crowd issue and how they would handle it is genuinely what got me thinking about it and caused me to google it. I'm just copying and pasting some of the reviews online below so you can see what I saw. Further, I was not "afraid" of being around somebody unmasked in the park (they weren't "distanced" from me but were like 3 feet away at the swing next to me), but seeing somebody openly unmasked seems unique to me at this point. The places we went to on Saturday all required masks and made reasonable efforts to keep people distanced. I find this to be entirely distinguishable from the below reports that I just copied and pasted from Yelp below. And, again, I didn't "refuse" to do this - I merely texted my wife for the reasons stated above and said that I thought we should discuss it before going there. 

10/21/2020

WAY too crowded. All the booths out of food. Lines way too long. Total ripoff. Should have stayed home. It was a total circus.  We waited in line for over 90 minutes to get just lunch.

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Michael G.

Scottsdale, AZ

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9/17/2020

Shockingly unsafe: this place has a reckless disregard for you and your family.
Staff and customers are not wearing masks or distancing. Yes, it's a farm, but they route you through the store when you enter and exit.
On the way out, the line to pay was nearly out the door with people crammed into the tiny space inside. There must have been 50 people inside with maybe 20% of customers masked. No staff members were masked; almost like they were making a point of it. Unacceptable.
We decided to leave all of our items and found a way to exit without passing through the store.
After making the drive up with a toddler and a baby, we left empty-handed.
We've been three times before, but this was our last visit.

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Stephanie G.

Phoenix, AZ

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9/12/2020

Very VERY UNSafe.  The store is packed people are literally touching each other to get past each other.  Masking is NOT required.  Employees aren't wearing masks inside the store and things are not being cleaned.  

Livid.

We drove up from phx because the website says they are open and respecting guidelines.  They are not.  We used to love coming here and they are missing basic common sense.

This would be a very safe and easy place to come.

Require masking inside the store.  Maximum occupancy inside the store.  Set up kiosks outside to weigh fruits and vegetables and for tickets. They are doing none of these things

 
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Here are some of the "positive reviews" below that made me chuckle. And, again, we aren't opposed to socializing in public nor is this some political stance my wife and I are taking - but this place seems just too reckless to attend given that we didn't have N-95 masks for ourselves and our kids (our cloth masks should have done us zero good). 

"For the pumpkin festival on oct 17th 2020 If you're not worried about covid this is the place to be. Large crowds didn't wear masks unless you wanted to wear one. No social distances in lines or on kids rides. No cleaning or sanitizing of any rides between kids. No masks needed on hayride."

Ashley N.

Indio, CA

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10/8/2020

Super fun, but unfortunately their website is misleading. They say masks aren't required because there is enough room to social distance but I don't think that's true. It felt very crowded, everyone was on top of each other even though we tried to social distance. It was almost impossible, it felt like we were at Disneyland! I wish I read the reviews before coming. Such a bummer because it could be a great experience and it could be much safer if they just enforced social distancing more. We felt totally mislead by their Covid "protocols" on their website.

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Meagan E.

Peoria, AZ

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10/11/2020

Love that all the staff are PRO FREEDOM and allow families to enjoy time together. We have been coming here for years, and especially now, we will always support [place] Thank you for letting us show our faces and working so hard to make the farm such a great family experience.

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Bec S.

Yuma, AZ

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10/16/2020

It's nice that you don't have to wear a mask OUTSIDE. Because ya know, logic. This place is amazing and glad they have the freedom to run their place how they see fit. Everyone else can stay home if they are afraid of fresh air.

 
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I think a lot of families are dealing with similar issues right now.  Even for my family where we are essentially on the same page, it is a constant concern wondering where my in-laws have been and if they have been "safe".  It is draining, anxiety producing and has caused some friction here and there. Future plans re Thanksgiving and Christmas are getting hard and somebody is going to be disappointed (probably my parents).  I have a similar relationship with my MIL, I think that is pretty common.  You did the right thing by putting the safety of your family first.  Political affiliations aside, this COVID thing is hard and it is tough to navigate.  I would give the in-laws a "pass".  Sorry your wife got so upset, that sucks and is hard to deal with as well.  

 
My thought process at this point was two-fold. First, my wife and I are set to adopt two of our kids by the end of the year. But, because we haven't yet, they technically are in the legal custody of the state. Accordingly, my worry is that it's borderline neglect to assume the risk for them when it's technically not our call yet
You really don't need to say anything else beyond this.  This is your singular focus; jeopardizing the adoption process for something so trivial as a visit to the pumpkin patch is a non-starter.  Accept the apologies, smooth it over, but this is your only talking point you need to use.  "We want to adopt these two kids into our family and we do not want to do anything that will pose a risk to the process.  I think and hope you all can understand that".  

/Scene  

 
I don't think it's necessary for the MIL to apologize directly to you. Let her apologize to her daughter and then you can move on.

 
I don't think it's necessary for the MIL to apologize directly to you. Let her apologize to her daughter and then you can move on.
This seems to be what is happening and I'm good with it. I created the thread around the time she asked my wife if she should call me to apologize. 

 
non issue.  you did what was right.  apologies aren't needed.  maybe for your wife.  but why would you care?

your wife probably shouldn't have shared your texts/concerns.  or,  you should have waited to tell her in person.  

your decision, solely based on the adoption issue, is unarguable.  regardless of the "politics".  both familial and governmental

 
Reasonable questions. Here are my reasonable responses: 

1. My children are ages 3, 4, 5, and 6. They can be easily distracted and forget plans, but if we pull up to a big pumpkin patch only to hear daddy explain that the place isn't being safe enough for a threat they cannot see or comprehend, they're going to be upset and the 1.5 hr. drive home would be awful. Additionally, the place was 30 minutes in the opposite direction of our house so driving out there to see, when the reviews online were very consistent (and turned out to be accurate), seems a risk of a total waste of an hour. Lastly, should my wife suggested this when I got back to the vrbo to talk to her, I would have considered it as a viable option. As events unfolded, my wife and I never even had the conversation of how to handle because my MIL's comments got upset her enough to where she didn't want to be around MIL. 

2. While it is a pumpkin patch outside, there are a significant number of booths, indoor/barn events, hayrides, kids' rides, and eating areas that get really crowded and have lines. The crowd issue and how they would handle it is genuinely what got me thinking about it and caused me to google it. I'm just copying and pasting some of the reviews online below so you can see what I saw. Further, I was not "afraid" of being around somebody unmasked in the park (they weren't "distanced" from me but were like 3 feet away at the swing next to me), but seeing somebody openly unmasked seems unique to me at this point. The places we went to on Saturday all required masks and made reasonable efforts to keep people distanced. I find this to be entirely distinguishable from the below reports that I just copied and pasted from Yelp below. And, again, I didn't "refuse" to do this - I merely texted my wife for the reasons stated above and said that I thought we should discuss it before going there.
Thanks, I think these are the details I was missing out on. Around here, we literally have pumpkin patches in fields. This sounds more like a carnival or fall festival, so I totally get where you're coming from now.

 
Thanks, I think these are the details I was missing out on. Around here, we literally have pumpkin patches in fields. This sounds more like a carnival or fall festival, so I totally get where you're coming from now.
Yeah this time of year they turn it into a festival type thing. It's a pretty big draw and is an all-day event. And with my kids' ages  it's mostly us waiting in lines for hayrides, other rides, and facepainting type stuff. We are in close proximity to others for extended periods and the way they had it set up in previous years did sort of corral patrons and there was a lot of shoulder to shoulder scenarios. Hence me wondering how they were going to adapt it to precautions - which they apparently haven't at all. 

 
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I can understand wife's anger and would support how she wants to handle it.  I think everyone needs to understand that just trying to get through COVID with health intact is about all that many can hope, and be thankful, for.  Nobody should take anything personally.

I live in the DC area. My mom is up in NJ, and my parents-in-law live in NM.  I haven't seen any of them since Jan/Feb.  We sometimes talk about doing something with either set of parents to try to make it work, but we've never been able to figure out something that all of us are comfortable with. Won't see for Thanksgiving and Christmas either.  No hard feelings on either side -- everyone understands that just looking out for ourselves and each other. Just a ****** situation, as who knows how many more Thanksgivings and Christmases will be able to have together.

 
I can understand wife's anger and would support how she wants to handle it.  I think everyone needs to understand that just trying to get through COVID with health intact is about all that many can hope, and be thankful, for.  Nobody should take anything personally.

I live in the DC area. My mom is up in NJ, and my parents-in-law live in NM.  I haven't seen any of them since Jan/Feb.  We sometimes talk about doing something with either set of parents to try to make it work, but we've never been able to figure out something that all of us are comfortable with. Won't see for Thanksgiving and Christmas either.  No hard feelings on either side -- everyone understands that just looking out for ourselves and each other. Just a ****** situation, as who knows how many more Thanksgivings and Christmases will be able to have together.
It's funny the geographical differences in Covid-19 precautions. My dad and his wife live in northern NJ and have essentially quarantined themselves from everybody (including my sister). My mom and her husband live in eastern PA and have already canceled Christmas this year but are seeing extended family in small gatherings and I think are limiting going out to places with significant precautions taken. 

Out here in AZ it's a serious debate whether a private business can require patrons to wear a mask. :facepalm: 

 
Getzlaf15 said:
sleep with her mom
Wait, sleep with the mom's mom? I'm all for any port in a storm but there has to be a line somewhere. Old girl would have to be in her 70's? 80's? C'mon now

 
In a vacuum this seems like sound advice, but given your horrible stance on cheesecake it's just all discredited and can't be taken seriously. 
Link to the cheesecake discussion please.. I must have missed it and now need to get indignant on one of the two of you

 
I'd send a text saying the safety of your family come before family outings, and you will be the one to determine what is safe and it is not open for discussion.

There is no good reason to defer to your wife  that puts her in a tough spot. If you take charge, then she can says she has to defer to you and it will be easier for her with her mother. 
There is the perspective of a single man :)

For the sake of family harmony, I'd do what many others have suggested.  Ask your wife what she wants, and support her.  The in-laws realized that MIL stepped in it and at least want to make amends. If her "apology" gets off track, you don't have to debate her on your family's safety or your position on mask wearing, just say you are sorry that she misinterpreted your reason for not wanting to go.

And after the hippling I see that she called your wife and apologized directly to her, which is probably the best route.  Family drama is not fun so hopefully it is in the past and MIL will be more careful with her words.

 
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