Mass grave with 796 children found at former orphanage (1 Viewer)

[msommer]

Run by nuns from 1925-1960

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/04/irish-church-under-fire-after-research-uncovers-796-young-children-buried-in-an-old-septic-tank/

I find myself much in agreement with this editorial

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/04/children-galway-mass-graves-ireland-catholic-church

This is vile.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Jesus man. Happy Saturday?

 

[msommer]

Yeah, I know. I should have saved that one for tomorrow.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

It's worth reading for sure, but that is an indictment on mankind as a whole right there. Terrible.

 

[matuski]

It's worth reading for sure, but that is an indictment on mankind as a whole right there. Terrible.

Mankind shielded by religion.

Do not say Catholic prayers over these dead children. Don't insult those who were in life despised and abused by you.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

"We're firmly against abortion. But if a few hundred kids happen to die because we neglected them....well, that's just God's will."

 

[Kal El]

Just horrible. There's no excuse for this kind of behavior, certainly not ostensibly having been carried out in the name of Jesus. Matsuki has it right, these barbarians hid behind their religion and 800 kids in this home died. Who knows how many more died because of this terrible treatment?

 

[fatness]

A 1944 government inspection recorded evidence of malnutrition among some of the 271 children then living in the Tuam orphanage alongside 61 unwed mothers. The death records cite sicknesses, diseases, deformities and premature births as causes. This would reflect an Ireland that, in the first half of the 20th century, had one of the worst infant mortality rates in Europe, with tuberculosis rife.

Elderly locals recalled that the children attended a local school — but were segregated from other pupils — until they were adopted or placed, around age 7 or 8, into church-run industrial schools that featured unpaid labour and abuse.

 

[cstu]

Reminds me of the movie Philomena.

 

[Psychopav]

That's horrific.

 

[Jayrok]

wow, how tragic.

 

[NCCommish]

"We're firmly against abortion. But if a few hundred kids happen to die because we neglected them....well, that's just God's will."

Life begins at conception and ends at birth.

 

[Rick James]

reminds me of the movie "Philomena".

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Reminds me of the movie Philomena.

Me too. It really is appalling that stuff happened during such recent history.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Religion

 

[glock]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

 

[beavers]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

Didn't they take away the children from single mothers who were forced into labor and punished for their sins?

 

[NCCommish]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

 

[shader]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

Don't think anyone who did this can rightfully be called Christians.

 

[NCCommish]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

Don't think anyone who did this can rightfully be called Christians.

I am quite sure they would disagree. And they probably got all the justification they needed from their local vicar. I wonder did they send the men that made the women pregnant to forced labor houses?

 

[shader]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

Don't think anyone who did this can rightfully be called Christians.

I am quite sure they would disagree. And they probably got all the justification they needed from their local vicar. I wonder did they send the men that made the women pregnant to forced labor houses?

Irrelevant. "You will know them by their fruits". Claiming to be a christian is meaningless.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

Don't think anyone who did this can rightfully be called Christians.

Only 18 posts before 'those aren't real christians'.

Well done.

 

[NCCommish]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

Don't think anyone who did this can rightfully be called Christians.

I am quite sure they would disagree. And they probably got all the justification they needed from their local vicar. I wonder did they send the men that made the women pregnant to forced labor houses?

Irrelevant. "You will know them by their fruits". Claiming to be a christian is meaningless.

I am sure you are aware that this is what "good Christians" did. They were in the mainstream of church thought at the time. The children were disposable fruits of sin and the women were whores with no real rights or expectations.

 

[shader]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

Don't think anyone who did this can rightfully be called Christians.

Only 18 posts before 'those aren't real christians'.

Well done.

This shtick is so ridiculous.

 

[shader]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

Don't think anyone who did this can rightfully be called Christians.

I am quite sure they would disagree. And they probably got all the justification they needed from their local vicar. I wonder did they send the men that made the women pregnant to forced labor houses?

Irrelevant. "You will know them by their fruits". Claiming to be a christian is meaningless.

I am sure you are aware that this is what "good Christians" did. They were in the mainstream of church thought at the time. The children were disposable fruits of sin and the women were whores with no real rights or expectations.

I disagree. They obviously weren't good, look at what happened. It's pretty cut and dry.

 

[[icon]]

Do not say Catholic prayers over these dead children. Don't insult those who were in life despised and abused by you.

Yep. This sort of #### is one of many reasons I parted ways with organized religion.

 

[Zow]

Thanks, posty

 

[mquinnjr]

"We're firmly against abortion. But if a few hundred kids happen to die because we neglected them....well, that's just God's will."

But support the pro-choice candidates (don't denounce them in line with a staunch pro-life stance), and shield those who commit sex crimes against minors.

 

[mquinnjr]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

Don't think anyone who did this can rightfully be called Christians.

I am quite sure they would disagree. And they probably got all the justification they needed from their local vicar. I wonder did they send the men that made the women pregnant to forced labor houses?

"I go to church on Sunday, so I'm better than you by default." I've seen enough people in my lifetime play this card and through their day-to-day actions couldn't live their lives any farther from the teachings of Christianity.

But I go to church every Sunday, so I win.

 

[shader]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

Don't think anyone who did this can rightfully be called Christians.

I am quite sure they would disagree. And they probably got all the justification they needed from their local vicar. I wonder did they send the men that made the women pregnant to forced labor houses?

"I go to church on Sunday, so I'm better than you by default." I've seen enough people in my lifetime play this card and through their day-to-day actions couldn't live their lives any farther from the teachings of Christianity.

But I go to church every Sunday, so I win.

If you can see the hypocrisy, I'm sure God can too.

 

[Psychopav]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

Don't think anyone who did this can rightfully be called Christians.

I am quite sure they would disagree. And they probably got all the justification they needed from their local vicar. I wonder did they send the men that made the women pregnant to forced labor houses?

Irrelevant. "You will know them by their fruits". Claiming to be a christian is meaningless.

I am sure you are aware that this is what "good Christians" did. They were in the mainstream of church thought at the time. The children were disposable fruits of sin and the women were whores with no real rights or expectations.

Oh

The "mainstream of church thought" didn't even allow for cremations at that time. The Church believes we should treat individuals with the dignity due to those made in the image and likeness of God. Abusing and neglecting women and children, dumping bodies in a mass grave in a sewer is not treating individuals with dignity in any day or age. You can't really blame Church doctrine on what some screwed up individuals did.

 

[beavers]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

Don't think anyone who did this can rightfully be called Christians.

I am quite sure they would disagree. And they probably got all the justification they needed from their local vicar. I wonder did they send the men that made the women pregnant to forced labor houses?

Irrelevant. "You will know them by their fruits". Claiming to be a christian is meaningless.

I am sure you are aware that this is what "good Christians" did. They were in the mainstream of church thought at the time. The children were disposable fruits of sin and the women were whores with no real rights or expectations.

Oh

The "mainstream of church thought" didn't even allow for cremations at that time. The Church believes we should treat individuals with the dignity due to those made in the image and likeness of God. Abusing and neglecting women and children, dumping bodies in a mass grave in a sewer is not treating individuals with dignity in any day or age. You can't really blame Church doctrine on what some screwed up individuals did.

Seems like there are a lot of screwed up individuals who are Catholics.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Reminds me of the movie Philomena.

http://ncronline.org/news/global/irish-archbishop-adds-voice-those-calling-investigation-septic-tank-burials

 

[NCCommish]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

Don't think anyone who did this can rightfully be called Christians.

I am quite sure they would disagree. And they probably got all the justification they needed from their local vicar. I wonder did they send the men that made the women pregnant to forced labor houses?

Irrelevant. "You will know them by their fruits". Claiming to be a christian is meaningless.

I am sure you are aware that this is what "good Christians" did. They were in the mainstream of church thought at the time. The children were disposable fruits of sin and the women were whores with no real rights or expectations.

Oh

The "mainstream of church thought" didn't even allow for cremations at that time. The Church believes we should treat individuals with the dignity due to those made in the image and likeness of God. Abusing and neglecting women and children, dumping bodies in a mass grave in a sewer is not treating individuals with dignity in any day or age. You can't really blame Church doctrine on what some screwed up individuals did.

Oh BS yourself. This was fully endorsed by the church of the day. This place was run by nuns. An order that is still active. Sorry it's ugly but it was church run.

 

[Amused to Death]

Oh


The "mainstream of church thought" didn't even allow for cremations at that time. The Church believes we should treat individuals with the dignity due to those made in the image and likeness of God. Abusing and neglecting women and children, dumping bodies in a mass grave in a sewer is not treating individuals with dignity in any day or age. You can't really blame Church doctrine on what some screwed up individuals did.

Seems like it was common in Ireland at the time. From the first link in the OP:

It is well documented that throughout Ireland in the first half of the 20th century, church-run orphanages and workhouses often buried their dead in unmarked graves and unconsecrated ground, reflecting how unmarried mothers — derided as “fallen women” in the culture of the day — typically were ostracized by society, even their own families.

Ireland already has published four major investigations into child abuse and its coverup in Catholic parishes and a network of children’s industrial schools, the last of which closed in the 1990s.

 

[Guest]

There are still "homes" that young unwed pregnant women are sent to. Usually by their family.

 

[dozer]

Can't we all just agree that Religion is bad and there is no God?

Edit: Changed Christianity to Religion. Since they are all about the same.

 

[shader]

Can't we all just agree that Religion is bad and there is no God?

Edit: Changed Christianity to Religion. Since they are all about the same.

So if an atheist commits an atrocity, does this mean atheism is bad and there IS a God?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Can't we all just agree that Religion is bad and there is no God?

Edit: Changed Christianity to Religion. Since they are all about the same.

So if an atheist commits an atrocity, does this mean atheism is bad and there IS a God?

 

[dozer]

Can't we all just agree that Religion is bad and there is no God?

Edit: Changed Christianity to Religion. Since they are all about the same.

So if an atheist commits an atrocity, does this mean atheism is bad and there IS a God?

No.

 

[HellToupee]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

Don't think anyone who did this can rightfully be called Christians.

I am quite sure they would disagree. And they probably got all the justification they needed from their local vicar. I wonder did they send the men that made the women pregnant to forced labor houses?

Irrelevant. "You will know them by their fruits". Claiming to be a christian is meaningless.

I am sure you are aware that this is what "good Christians" did. They were in the mainstream of church thought at the time. The children were disposable fruits of sin and the women were whores with no real rights or expectations.

Oh The "mainstream of church thought" didn't even allow for cremations at that time. The Church believes we should treat individuals with the dignity due to those made in the image and likeness of God. Abusing and neglecting women and children, dumping bodies in a mass grave in a sewer is not treating individuals with dignity in any day or age. You can't really blame Church doctrine on what some screwed up individuals did.

Seems like there are a lot of screwed up individuals who are Catholics.

Don't play that game , its a very slippery slope

 

[Psychopav]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

Don't think anyone who did this can rightfully be called Christians.

I am quite sure they would disagree. And they probably got all the justification they needed from their local vicar. I wonder did they send the men that made the women pregnant to forced labor houses?

Irrelevant. "You will know them by their fruits". Claiming to be a christian is meaningless.

I am sure you are aware that this is what "good Christians" did. They were in the mainstream of church thought at the time. The children were disposable fruits of sin and the women were whores with no real rights or expectations.

Oh

The "mainstream of church thought" didn't even allow for cremations at that time. The Church believes we should treat individuals with the dignity due to those made in the image and likeness of God. Abusing and neglecting women and children, dumping bodies in a mass grave in a sewer is not treating individuals with dignity in any day or age. You can't really blame Church doctrine on what some screwed up individuals did.

Oh BS yourself. This was fully endorsed by the church of the day. This place was run by nuns. An order that is still active. Sorry it's ugly but it was church run.

Looking forward to your report on mainstream Islam's thoughts on terrorism.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

Don't think anyone who did this can rightfully be called Christians.

I am quite sure they would disagree. And they probably got all the justification they needed from their local vicar. I wonder did they send the men that made the women pregnant to forced labor houses?

Irrelevant. "You will know them by their fruits". Claiming to be a christian is meaningless.

I am sure you are aware that this is what "good Christians" did. They were in the mainstream of church thought at the time. The children were disposable fruits of sin and the women were whores with no real rights or expectations.

Oh

The "mainstream of church thought" didn't even allow for cremations at that time. The Church believes we should treat individuals with the dignity due to those made in the image and likeness of God. Abusing and neglecting women and children, dumping bodies in a mass grave in a sewer is not treating individuals with dignity in any day or age. You can't really blame Church doctrine on what some screwed up individuals did.

Oh BS yourself. This was fully endorsed by the church of the day. This place was run by nuns. An order that is still active. Sorry it's ugly but it was church run.

Looking forward to your report on mainstream Islam's thoughts on terrorism.

So you're argument is "We're not as awful as Islam?"

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Organized religion is EVIL.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

Don't think anyone who did this can rightfully be called Christians.

I am quite sure they would disagree. And they probably got all the justification they needed from their local vicar. I wonder did they send the men that made the women pregnant to forced labor houses?

Irrelevant. "You will know them by their fruits". Claiming to be a christian is meaningless.

I am sure you are aware that this is what "good Christians" did. They were in the mainstream of church thought at the time. The children were disposable fruits of sin and the women were whores with no real rights or expectations.

Oh

The "mainstream of church thought" didn't even allow for cremations at that time. The Church believes we should treat individuals with the dignity due to those made in the image and likeness of God. Abusing and neglecting women and children, dumping bodies in a mass grave in a sewer is not treating individuals with dignity in any day or age. You can't really blame Church doctrine on what some screwed up individuals did.

Oh BS yourself. This was fully endorsed by the church of the day. This place was run by nuns. An order that is still active. Sorry it's ugly but it was church run.

Looking forward to your report on mainstream Islam's thoughts on terrorism.

So you're argument is "We're not as awful as Islam?"

Impressive thread. We've had 'those aren't real christians' and 'we're not as bad as Islam' on the first page. Gotta be some kind of record.

 

[shader]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

Don't think anyone who did this can rightfully be called Christians.

I am quite sure they would disagree. And they probably got all the justification they needed from their local vicar. I wonder did they send the men that made the women pregnant to forced labor houses?

Irrelevant. "You will know them by their fruits". Claiming to be a christian is meaningless.

I am sure you are aware that this is what "good Christians" did. They were in the mainstream of church thought at the time. The children were disposable fruits of sin and the women were whores with no real rights or expectations.

Oh

The "mainstream of church thought" didn't even allow for cremations at that time. The Church believes we should treat individuals with the dignity due to those made in the image and likeness of God. Abusing and neglecting women and children, dumping bodies in a mass grave in a sewer is not treating individuals with dignity in any day or age. You can't really blame Church doctrine on what some screwed up individuals did.

Oh BS yourself. This was fully endorsed by the church of the day. This place was run by nuns. An order that is still active. Sorry it's ugly but it was church run.

Looking forward to your report on mainstream Islam's thoughts on terrorism.

So you're argument is "We're not as awful as Islam?"

:whoosh:

 

[shader]

Impressive thread. We've had 'those aren't real christians' and 'we're not as bad as Islam' on the first page. Gotta be some kind of record.

So do you think that Jesus would approve of these actions?

 

[DrJ]

Can't we all just agree that Religion is bad and there is no God?

Edit: Changed Christianity to Religion. Since they are all about the same.

So if an atheist commits an atrocity, does this mean atheism is bad and there IS a God?

No, but if the atrocity is greater it shows that atheists are more evil.

 

[sho nuff]

NOT defending the church here, but these were orphans- their parents and society in general pretty much washed their hands of these children first. Which might even be more sad, if that's possible...

And Jesus said "What you do for the least of you, you do for me". Wish more Christians would make it past Leviticus.

Don't think anyone who did this can rightfully be called Christians.

I am quite sure they would disagree. And they probably got all the justification they needed from their local vicar. I wonder did they send the men that made the women pregnant to forced labor houses?

Irrelevant. "You will know them by their fruits". Claiming to be a christian is meaningless.

I am sure you are aware that this is what "good Christians" did. They were in the mainstream of church thought at the time. The children were disposable fruits of sin and the women were whores with no real rights or expectations.

Oh

The "mainstream of church thought" didn't even allow for cremations at that time. The Church believes we should treat individuals with the dignity due to those made in the image and likeness of God. Abusing and neglecting women and children, dumping bodies in a mass grave in a sewer is not treating individuals with dignity in any day or age. You can't really blame Church doctrine on what some screwed up individuals did.

Seems like there are a lot of screwed up individuals who are Humans Catholics.

Don't think Catholics have any sort of patent on this.

As far as this being "mainstream"...it seems like it was, in Ireland. Not for the Church overall.

 

[Riversco]

I wonder how much of this has to do with the Irish potato famine from a few decades prior to this? Attitudes about starvation and what to do with people you cannot feed may have been shaped by that experience. To us it may seem gruesome, but maybe to them they felt as if they were always on the edge of starvation and Irish Catholics were brutally persecuted in the past so that may have factored in to this.