cubbie5150
Footballguy
Too late, I think...
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Mathews vs. Tolbert (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Football Critic
- Start date
Nicolas Cocaign
Footballguy
If you have Tolbert, but not Mathews...do you hold on to Tolbert or do you try to sell him to the Mathews owner?
Will his value continue to increase, or has he hit his peak?
Will his value continue to increase, or has he hit his peak?
fightingillini
Footballguy
Agree.OAK gave up about 200 yards to HOU on the ground. With SD D playing well, this could get out of hand early, so I wouldn't be surprised if both Mathews and Tolbert get over 75 yards and a TD each.You won't see Mathews get 20+ carries each week.....SD needs Mathews to not hit the rookie wall and be available for their playoff run. Plus, he's their future.IMO, going forward assuming Mathews is healthy, the distribution of carries should be 60-65% Mathews, and 35-40% Tolbert.
Football Critic
Footballguy
Homers?
Any reports on who took the first team reps yesterday?
Any reports on who took the first team reps yesterday?
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Tolbert seems conspicuously low on the FBG's projections this week. Im pretty confident starting him (well, compared to my other options at least: Torain, Bell, Stewart, Spiller, Darby)
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Agreed. I've watched the Raiders every week, and they are a flat out sieve against the run. Can't stop anybody. Wouldn't be surprised to see the Chargers run it 30 times. This is not the day Rivers should be chucking it all over the place - if they run it they win.
i'd think about Torain over Tolbert if i was you.
+1I'm not a homer, but I'm a fan. If bradshaw is limited in any way, I am starting mathews with confidence, and can easily see him getting 15-20 carries. As for tolbert, I would guess he sees a good 8-14 ish carries.Expect the chargers to get up early with something to gates or floyd then pound the ball the rest of the way.Mike Bush may be an x-factor, but we can always depend on shaun phillips to stop him
Football Critic
Footballguy
Bump
The_Underachiever
Footballguy
I think I am rolling with Tolbert over Torain.
Rotoworld:
According to the San Diego Union-Tribune, indications on the Chargers' practice field this week were that Mike Tolbert is slated for "plenty of work," despite Ryan Mathews' (ankle) return to health.
The Chargers did "limit" Mathews' practice participation on Friday, and beat writer Kevin Acee believes that the team is being "cautious both with Mathews' ankle and his pysche." Really, the Chargers would be foolish to not continue to ride Tolbert while he's hot. He's averaging a legitimate 5.5 yards per carry, and the Raiders are the worst team
in football in defending the run on a per-carry basis. Tolbert remains a strong flex play in Week 5.
Rotoworld:
According to the San Diego Union-Tribune, indications on the Chargers' practice field this week were that Mike Tolbert is slated for "plenty of work," despite Ryan Mathews' (ankle) return to health.
The Chargers did "limit" Mathews' practice participation on Friday, and beat writer Kevin Acee believes that the team is being "cautious both with Mathews' ankle and his pysche." Really, the Chargers would be foolish to not continue to ride Tolbert while he's hot. He's averaging a legitimate 5.5 yards per carry, and the Raiders are the worst team
in football in defending the run on a per-carry basis. Tolbert remains a strong flex play in Week 5.
cubbie5150
Footballguy
[raises hand] W/ Mendy on his BYE, I was thinking of starting both Mathews & Tolbert (cuz I didn't want to choose the wrong SD RB), but now I'm considering Tolbert & FJax OR Ivory.
It's definitely concerning. I have to choose between Mathews, Lance Moore, Dez Bryant, and Torain in a PPR, and it's going to be a very tough call now.
scott72
Footballguy
Dez is tempting there, but I'd prob take Torain. The Pack D is decimated with injuries. Torain should have a big day.
glock
"Don't grumble, give a whistle!"
If Matthews' psyche needs some bolstering, why not let him cut his teeth on da Raidaass??
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
Tolbert could pull a Hillis in this game... 
duaneok66
Footballguy
why would you do that???
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
long term thats not a bad move at all
duaneok66
Footballguy
I would still like to hear the rationale . . .
Eastwood
Footballguy
I guess I was thinking long term, with Matthews being so much younger than MJD, figured Jennings would get his shot before Tolbert to be a full time back. It probably wasn't the best move on my part. 
I do have S-Jax, D-Will, and Hillis as my starters this year, so figured I wouldn't be starting either one much from here on out. Again, just thinking long term Jennings might be the better player. Should have dropped LaFell and kept Tolbert in hindsight huh?
Roster:
Ryan, McNabb, Vick
S-Jax, D-Will, Hillis, Portis, Jennings
Fitz, Jennings, Santana, Mike Williams South, Benn, James Jones, Jacoby Jones, Golden Tate, LaFell
V.Davis, Hernandez, Zach Miller
Packers
I do have S-Jax, D-Will, and Hillis as my starters this year, so figured I wouldn't be starting either one much from here on out. Again, just thinking long term Jennings might be the better player. Should have dropped LaFell and kept Tolbert in hindsight huh?Roster:
Ryan, McNabb, Vick
S-Jax, D-Will, Hillis, Portis, Jennings
Fitz, Jennings, Santana, Mike Williams South, Benn, James Jones, Jacoby Jones, Golden Tate, LaFell
V.Davis, Hernandez, Zach Miller
Packers
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mathews is only 2 years younger then MJD. MJD was 21 as a rookie, Mathews has come into the league at 23.
duaneok66
Footballguy
would have dropped Lafell . . .but I have made some regrettable choices . . .early last year Collie and Garcon were on waivers . . . guess who I grabbed???I guess I was thinking long term, with Matthews being so much younger than MJD, figured Jennings would get his shot before Tolbert to be a full time back. It probably wasn't the best move on my part.I do have S-Jax, D-Will, and Hillis as my starters this year, so figured I wouldn't be starting either one much from here on out. Again, just thinking long term Jennings might be the better player. Should have dropped LaFell and kept Tolbert in hindsight huh?Roster:Ryan, McNabb, VickS-Jax, D-Will, Hillis, Portis, JenningsFitz, Jennings, Santana, Mike Williams South, Benn, James Jones, Jacoby Jones, Golden Tate, LaFellV.Davis, Hernandez, Zach MillerPackers
The Jerk
Footballguy
While Mathews is only 25 months younger than MJD, he also has over 1100 fewer NFL touches under his belt. As comparisons of Ricky Williams to Clinton Portis show, football age is not necessarily equivalent to true chronological age.
cubbie5150
Footballguy
Gonna start Tolbert, which of course means Mathews will post something like 20/110/2 on my bench. Oh, and people actually still believe what coaches say publicly when it comes to players &/or the gameplan?
Join the club.I'm starting MJD, hillis, and bradshaw over mathews this week.This is very difficult to do as a chargers fan enjoying the bolts trample over the raiders every time they play.
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duaneok66
Footballguy
that's a no brainer - LT is like butter (on a roll), while Matbews isnt a lock to get 10+ carries . . .
Routilla
Footballguy
Sadly I agree. Signed,Shonn Greene and Ryan Mathews owner
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
Hipple said:
at 29 seconds 
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
HORRIBLE. Unless u have mjd and even then debatable.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
I would rather have Tolbert than half the receivers u kept over him. Everyone past Mike williams south. at the very least you sell him for something to the nervous mathews ownerI guess I was thinking long term, with Matthews being so much younger than MJD, figured Jennings would get his shot before Tolbert to be a full time back. It probably wasn't the best move on my part.I do have S-Jax, D-Will, and Hillis as my starters this year, so figured I wouldn't be starting either one much from here on out. Again, just thinking long term Jennings might be the better player. Should have dropped LaFell and kept Tolbert in hindsight huh?Roster:Ryan, McNabb, VickS-Jax, D-Will, Hillis, Portis, JenningsFitz, Jennings, Santana, Mike Williams South, Benn, James Jones, Jacoby Jones, Golden Tate, LaFellV.Davis, Hernandez, Zach MillerPackers
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Football Critic
Footballguy
Awesome...I'm so glad you guys are keeping us up to date on your transactions that I so care about....
...but if we can get back to the topic that is nameD in this thread.
Last week people suggested that Tolbert was not the guy, so lets just say thats not the case, unless u have not been watching the games....
who's the start on this team? tolbert or Matthews?
...AND CAN A HOMER POST WITH HOW THE REPS WENT EARLIER IN THE WEEK?
...but if we can get back to the topic that is nameD in this thread.
Last week people suggested that Tolbert was not the guy, so lets just say thats not the case, unless u have not been watching the games....
who's the start on this team? tolbert or Matthews?
...AND CAN A HOMER POST WITH HOW THE REPS WENT EARLIER IN THE WEEK?
AgentMulder
Footballguy
cubbie5150
Footballguy
What's a so-called "homer" gonna know that the rest of us don't? (I'm not trying to be a ####) There's so much info on the interwebs these days... always curious what exactly people are expecting when asking this.. Didn't Mathews get 1st team reps prior to week 4 game? We saw how that turned out...if it weren't for garbage time productio,.... But, people keep insisting that b/c Norv states publicly that Mathews is "his guy", it must be true. I agree that Mathews has looked good when given the opportunity, but Tolbert has as well, and besides, talent doesn't always mean as much as we'd like.... ask Jamaal Charles & Beanie Wells owners. My opinion is that Tolbert is the safer play since he'll probably get goal line work. I have no idea what the workload would be in any given game scenario. Hell, once SD got up big week 4, I thought for sure Mathews was done since he was coming off injury & is supposedly Norv's #1...but nope, there he was, getting carries when Billy Volek was in @ QB. If Tolbert's not the #1, why not run him into the ground in a blow-out?
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
Well for instance...i live in new England and a friend of mine works at Gillette...so if i needed to know who was getting the first team reps i could just ask him as he can watch the practices...so in effect a HOMER would know more than the regular Joe reading the paper or the net...just sayin
otb_lifer
Footballguy
Agree 1000% .... ferchrissakes, if a player farts in practice it's: tweeted, blogged, posted, etc ... what the hell can a "homer" tell us, lest they are ACTUALLY at the practices? Seriously, is the news about who is getting first team reps only disseminated in San Diego with the disclaimer "ONLY FOR HOMERS!!! SSSSHH!!" ...?That being said< I would roll with Tolbert this week, regardless >>> goal line love, Raiders soft run D ... 'nuff said on that.This logic of "yards after contact" bothers me. Tolbert ran through massive holes here and simply lowered his head. Mathews is a more dynamic playmaker and would be able to maneuver away from DB and safety tackles. Tolbert eyes a hole, goes through it and lowers his head. Sounds like a fullback to me!
Tolbert rums like a fullback, mathews runs like a tailback. Ill bet on the tailback to play the position as in time tolbert will end up playing the position he is designed for.
We've seen this time and time again and fullbacks can be a short term fill but eventually they go back to what they do best.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
anyone wanna guess the odds that Moderated and Krough are RM owners?
zoonation
Footballguy
I don't know how anyone could watch those Tolbert clips and think he is anything but a part time runner. The guy just lowers his head and looks for contact. Not a dynamic runner at all. This is Mathews' job for sure, with Tolbert spelling him and getting the short yardage stuff.
At some point this season, maybe very soon, I'd expect your last sentence to be true but that's not how it is this weekend.I do disagree with your scouting report on Tolbert. He looks to me like a guy with good vision, nimble feet, and he's also a very good receiver out of the backfield. Tolbert has 3 20+ runs already this year. That's the same as LT had all of last season. You don't do that by just lowering your head and looking for contact.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
No one is arguing that RM is not a top talent. Just that he is injured. That he is a rookie. And that the team has no need to rush him back in with the success that Tolbert is having. The difference is that they are letting their desire to see Mathews perform cloud their judgement about the obvious talent of a guy who is in their way, and is being tremendously productive with his opportunities. Not to mention that with the flux in the charger Offensive line that having a bulldog like T-bert (%$%^#@!) who can both make moves AND break an early contact/tackle is a huge plus. Go watch that video again. Pay specific attention to these times
27 seconds in
49 seconds in
1:48 in
27 seconds in
49 seconds in
1:48 in
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cubbie5150
Footballguy
There have been plenty of situations w/ similar talent disparities where the more talented/dynamic guy is mired in a time share...I'm sure Beanie Wells & Jamaal Charles owners would agree.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
"Fullback" on a 20 yd td reception
"fullback" on a 66 yd td reception [note the pylon dive while racing a DB to the pylon. That's a play a WR usually makes not a plodding FB. Not a "fullback" in the league who could do that from top to bottom...
tolbert/sproles 2009 highlight reel. watch the screen at 19 seconds vs oakland. Only goes for 13 or so yards but another showacse of his hands and athleticism.
Also note how quickly T-Bert goes from selling his 'block" to in and out of his break. I had to pause the tape and go back twice to even see it he was out there and ready to catch the football in under two seconds including his faux block
Not bad moves for s stonehanded FB who isn't a dynamic runner
"fullback" on a 66 yd td reception [note the pylon dive while racing a DB to the pylon. That's a play a WR usually makes not a plodding FB. Not a "fullback" in the league who could do that from top to bottom...
tolbert/sproles 2009 highlight reel. watch the screen at 19 seconds vs oakland. Only goes for 13 or so yards but another showacse of his hands and athleticism.
Also note how quickly T-Bert goes from selling his 'block" to in and out of his break. I had to pause the tape and go back twice to even see it he was out there and ready to catch the football in under two seconds including his faux block
Not bad moves for s stonehanded FB who isn't a dynamic runner
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