KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Fantasy Purposes / Standard Scoring... who do you like
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Matt Ryan vs Kevin Kolb (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter KellysHeroes
- Start date
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
sure...
I like them both, but I'm not sure I agree with this logic. Such a small sample size for Kolb, using those two games as if they would be the norm seems a bit dangerous. Dennis Dixon has 1 less start than Kolb and put up good numbers, doesn't mean he's guaranteed to be a stud if he starts.
LBH
Footballguy
There are no guarentees but ill take my chances with Kolb given the system, investment/commitment, and weapons vs MRyan. I think Ryan is grossly overrated as a fantasy QB. Good real life QB but i just dont get all the love in fantasy. If the system changes and Ryan has to throw the ball 35-40 times a game then my opinion will change, but im not the kind of fantasy manager that likes to wait on these things if im counting on Ryan as my QB1
I don't disagree with any of this reasoning, though I'm certainly higher on Ryan than you. I just think expecting Kolb to put up the numbers he had with his two starts on a weekly basis may be asking too much; it's probably not an accurate barometer for what his year end numbers will look like.
Kolb is certainly in an offense that will throw the ball more and with more weapons. Ryan is the safe choice, but Kolb likely has the higher upside at least in the short term based on his situation. In dynasty, I probably lean towards Ryan as he has proven more and was regarded as the better talend entering the league.
I agree on all points.
LBH
Footballguy
Im only saying that its a good sign that Kolbs only two starts were as good as any Ryan has had in two seasons, not that i expect that kind of production every week.
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puckalicious
Footballguy
Add me to the list of who in the heck would take Kolb over Ryan. Must be a lot of philly fans weighing in.
LBH
Footballguy
no im just suggesting that based on Ryans production and situation that his price seems quite inflated to me. Kolb had two starts last year. They were as good or nearly as good as any start that Ryan has had. No I dont think Kolb will throw for 300+ every game but the fact that he did in his only two chances last year bodes well IMO given the offense, and weapons around him(that i expect will only get better). If Kolb was only a rookie last year Id be more worried, but hes been sitting behind a top QB for three seasons and Reid thinks hes ready for the starting job. Thats enough for me to take Kolb over Ryan
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
I can see why LBH would like Kolb over Ryan this year, but Ryan is very talented which is why its hard to trade for him.
Atl has been babying him, year 1 they asked Turner to do all the work as they should of and when they needed Ryan he was usually good.
Year 2 was a step back as what happens to most QBs. Theres wa injuries as well...
This year I got to think they begin to let Matty loose to see what hes got. The Weapons around Ryan aren't as exciting as Kolb, but the Falcons are smart, they'll beginning getting some WRs.
Atl has been babying him, year 1 they asked Turner to do all the work as they should of and when they needed Ryan he was usually good.
Year 2 was a step back as what happens to most QBs. Theres wa injuries as well...
This year I got to think they begin to let Matty loose to see what hes got. The Weapons around Ryan aren't as exciting as Kolb, but the Falcons are smart, they'll beginning getting some WRs.
You stated "I think Kolb beats these numbers easily." If that's the case, it seems like you are projecting Matt Ryan to do no better than he has the last two years; one when he was a rookie, the other where he missed 3 games. I'm saying it's not those numbers Kolb has to beat, it's Matt Ryan's numbers going forward. I have no problem with those who think Kolb will outperform Ryan, he very well may, I just don't quite agree with the statement that since Kolb will beat what Ryan has already accomplished, he is better. If Ryan plays a full season he could shatter what he has done so far, he certainly has the talent. I think there is a ton of room for improvement in Ryan and he could become a top QB. In any event, I think it's a decent debate and these two, along with Flacco, will be interesting to follow.
werdnoynek
Footballguy
you're right, its extremely silly to be comparing stats between the two: 2 games for kolb (in 4 seasons... 3 games counting '08 spot appearences where he threw 0 TD's and 4 INTs) vs 2 seasons for ryan... it doesn't make sense and it's just not a good way to present your case for kolb being the better of the two. he very well may be, but we've seen nothing to show that he is. until then ryan > kolb imo. it is a good debate, i think flaco and matt moore deserve to be in the discussion as well for the over 2 seasons in the NFL, yet still young group.
LBH
Footballguy
Well obviously its tough to present a strong case for Kolb based on two games but i dont think Kolb is without talent and i did present a case for him based on weapons and system. I wouldnt knock anybody for wanting Ryan, i just believe Kolb is set up better for a bigger season in 2010. Thats pretty much all ive got to say on it
I think Kolb will have a good year and future with the team.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
i was extremely impressed with ryan after his rookie season (how could you not be, he helped team to the playoffs)...
last year he did seem to regress... maybe it was a confluence of factors... he was protected by playcalling as a rookie and maybe unleashed more as a soph... he didn't have the benefit of michael turner, who was one of the best RBs in the league in 2008, for as much of the 2009 season.
did they have more OL injuries in 2009 relative to 2008?
a better WR2 than jenkins would be great, but they already have two outstanding options in white & t-gon...
it was almost like ryan made better decisions as a rookie... there were times last year he looked exposed against the rush, made made decisions, & threw the ball up for grabs...
he is a hard worker, smart & has great intangibles... imo he is definitely capable of turning last year around and getting back on his extremely promising rookie career arc/trajectory...
agree he is probably safer choice, and no doubt was higher graded coming out.
i also agree kolb seems to have higher upside due to scheme, and the upside of YOUNG receiving trio of jackson, maclin & celek.
if you were in an actual startup dynasty, choosing one or the other might dictate what other QBs you get... if you like kolb best, it would seem more important to go after another quality QB, with kolb not being as proven...
this will be much easier to answer in a year... & by then, kolb should have a new contract...
this could also be a decision dictated by composition of the rest of a team's roster... if you like to balance risk, a lot of risk at other positions might point to ryan... if you have a very solid team in place around him, the upside of kolb could make a great complement.
last year he did seem to regress... maybe it was a confluence of factors... he was protected by playcalling as a rookie and maybe unleashed more as a soph... he didn't have the benefit of michael turner, who was one of the best RBs in the league in 2008, for as much of the 2009 season.
did they have more OL injuries in 2009 relative to 2008?
a better WR2 than jenkins would be great, but they already have two outstanding options in white & t-gon...
it was almost like ryan made better decisions as a rookie... there were times last year he looked exposed against the rush, made made decisions, & threw the ball up for grabs...
he is a hard worker, smart & has great intangibles... imo he is definitely capable of turning last year around and getting back on his extremely promising rookie career arc/trajectory...
agree he is probably safer choice, and no doubt was higher graded coming out.
i also agree kolb seems to have higher upside due to scheme, and the upside of YOUNG receiving trio of jackson, maclin & celek.
if you were in an actual startup dynasty, choosing one or the other might dictate what other QBs you get... if you like kolb best, it would seem more important to go after another quality QB, with kolb not being as proven...
this will be much easier to answer in a year... & by then, kolb should have a new contract...
this could also be a decision dictated by composition of the rest of a team's roster... if you like to balance risk, a lot of risk at other positions might point to ryan... if you have a very solid team in place around him, the upside of kolb could make a great complement.
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Kolb is a nice upside guy but didn't he throw the ball like 100ish times in those 2 games?
I know the game against NO his stats looked better then his actual performance. KC was horrible in the beginning of the year when Kolb played them but he did put up nice numbers.
In dynasty i really don't think it's wise to rank Kolb over Ryan at this point in time. Ryan has better pedigree and has proved himself over a larger sample.
That said i'd love to have Kolb as my #2 QB, but he's not in the same league as Ryan at this point IMO.
I know the game against NO his stats looked better then his actual performance. KC was horrible in the beginning of the year when Kolb played them but he did put up nice numbers.
In dynasty i really don't think it's wise to rank Kolb over Ryan at this point in time. Ryan has better pedigree and has proved himself over a larger sample.
That said i'd love to have Kolb as my #2 QB, but he's not in the same league as Ryan at this point IMO.
kremenull
Footballguy
Not a Philly fan in the least, but this is a no-brainer for me.......Kolb is my choiceCertainly a more passer-friendly offense, with weapons all around. I could care less about who is the better talent (esp for QBs) when it comes to fantasy.....Hell, Big Ben dwarfs Brees in talent, but who would u roll with as your preferred fantasy QB? And besides, I don't see Ryan as a superior 'talent' at the QB position over most any other QB. Intangibles, not measurables, is what most peiple viewed as his stengths entering the league. He was viewed as a higher-rated prospect than Aaron Rodgers if you compare them upon entering the league, but if you judge them now, Rodgers is head-and-shoulders a better, and more physically talented, player than Ryan. Bottom-"ine though will be production and I see Kolb in a position to outproduce Ryan over the next few seasons (aggregate) by a pretty nice margin........unless he just flat-out flops this golden situation
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
your kidding
theglorydays
Footballguy
You didn't know that? I mean Big Ben is 6'5 240 and Brees is barely 6'0 200 so Ben is obviously more talented
Birdie048
Footballguy
I believe that Ryan is a better QB, better talent and a better LONG TERM VALUE. Kolb is in a better situation with a pass heavy offense, has better supporting cast and the benefit of having learned behind a potential HOF QB for the past few years.
If they were in the same situation, I would take Ryan.... but due to their drastic situational differences, Kolb has the better value (for 2010 IMO).
If they were in the same situation, I would take Ryan.... but due to their drastic situational differences, Kolb has the better value (for 2010 IMO).
jurb26
Footballguy
I in no way think that Kolb is a better player than Ryan as far as ability and NFL value is concerned. This question however is about fantasy football. Fantasy (redraft anyway) has just as much to do with opportunity and system as it does with ability. Kolb plays in one of the most pass happy systems in the entire NFL. Ryan plays in a rather conservative system. Kolb has explosive receiving options all over the field and a poor running game (or maybe just a coach who refuses to use a running game). Ryan has a dominant running game and only one explosive receiving option. Ryan is no doubt the better player, but as far as fantasy I'd roll the dice on Kolb. I'd imagine you will be able to draft Kolb later as well which only sweetens the pot. ADP and value has to be some factor in this and I think that edge goes to Kolb.
Aznflyer14
Footballguy
Simply put... Andy Reid is a trigger-happy coach while Mike Smith is a big believer in smash-mouth offense. Matt Ryan had a productive year in his rookie season because opponents knew Falcons were going to shove down their throats in ground game. Last year, it was a learning experience for Matt Ryan to carry Falcons' offense when Mike Turner went down.
For any fantasy format, I def would take Kolb cuz of his coach's pass-first mentality in his offense scheme.
For any fantasy format, I def would take Kolb cuz of his coach's pass-first mentality in his offense scheme.
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