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Matt Ryans rookie season, where does it stack up in history? (1 Viewer)

Da Guru

Fair & Balanced
Ryan could end up with 3500+ yards and a 2-1 TD to INT ratio as a rookie QB.

How many rookie QBs have had this kind of success?

I do know one thing..not Chuck Long, Andre Ware or Joey Harrington.

 
It's really not just just his stats, which are very good for even a veteran QB.

But how many teams allow their QB to call their own plays? To me, its not just his production, but the fact that he seems to control all the action on the field. He sees where blitzes are coming from so he buys himself split second to give his receiver just enough time to get open.

There was a play on their successful two point conversion where he faked a toss to the RB by tossing the ball to himself and then completing a pass on the rollout. He simply just has an intrinsic understanding of the game and a self-assuredness that's pretty cool to watch in action.

 
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Peyton Manning

Rooke Records 1998

Most pass attempts - 575

Most pass completions - 336

Most yards gained - 3,739

Most TDs - 26

Most consecutive games with a TD for a rookie QB - 13

 
Since 1960, only 2 rookies had 3500 passing yards:

Peyton Manning 1998 3739

Jim Kelly 1986 3593

Only 4 had 20+ TD:

Peyton Manning 1998 26 TD, 28 INT

Jim Kelly 1986 22 TD, 17 INT

Butch Songin 1960 22 TD, 15 INT

Dan Marino 1983 20 TD, 6 INT

 
Since 1960, only 2 rookies had 3500 passing yards:

Peyton Manning 1998 3739

Jim Kelly 1986 3593

Only 4 had 20+ TD:

Peyton Manning 1998 26 TD, 28 INT

Jim Kelly 1986 22 TD, 17 INT

Butch Songin 1960 22 TD, 15 INT

Dan Marino 1983 20 TD, 6 INT
I think Ryan's season (should it stay on target), is better then these seasons. BUt even if it doesn't (continue as it is), this is some VERY heady company!
 
Right up there with Manning and Roethlisberger. He has better yardage/TD numbers than Roethlisberger and a better QB rating than Manning. The numbers certainly bode well for his future.

 
:goodposting: Big Ben relied VERY heavily on a strong running game and a dominating defense. he ddn't come even close to what Ryan's done this year.IN fact, I don't think anybody ever has........
Big Ben went 13-0 as a starter?Record holder for comp % and passer rating amongst rookies, will probably end up with similar TD/INT to Ryan despite not starting 16 games.Won a playoff game?Your right, it was run 1st and a very good D, but I think he deserves to be mentioned.PIT had 2400 yards of rushing in 04, while ATL has 1900 with 3 games to goCan we all agree MTurner > Bettis and Roddy > Ward?The D is another level I agree.
 
:goodposting: Big Ben relied VERY heavily on a strong running game and a dominating defense. he ddn't come even close to what Ryan's done this year.IN fact, I don't think anybody ever has........
Big Ben went 13-0 as a starter?Record holder for comp % and passer rating amongst rookies, will probably end up with similar TD/INT to Ryan despite not starting 16 games.

Won a playoff game?

Your right, it was run 1st and a very good D, but I think he deserves to be mentioned. I agree with this part!PIT had 2400 yards of rushing in 04, while ATL has 1900 with 3 games to go

Can we all agree MTurner > Bettis and Roddy > Ward?

The D is another level I agree.
Ben was NOT asked to win games for Pittsburgh. That Pitt team was dominant, and Ben was rarely asked to throw. The dominance of that run game lent itself more then a little bit to Ben's record rating, and Ryan on that team would also have gone 13-0 easily. Ryan on the other hand, has HAD to throw often. While he's enjoyed a solid running game, it wouldn't be if they were one-dimensional, and his defense can't hold a candle to that Pitt team. Hardly trying to disparage Ben...just pointing out that the OP is right. Ryan's rookie season is epic, and is on pace to be the "best ever" by a (modern age) rookie QB.
 
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Ben was NOT asked to win games for Pittsburgh. That Pitt team was dominant, and Ben was rarely asked to throw.
I never liked this logic and I don't like it now. Even if you're on a team with a dominant defense and a pair of great WRs, you still have to play well to go 13-0 and maintain a 98.1 QB rating. Roethlisberger wasn't asked to carry the Steelers in his rookie season, but that doesn't change the fact that he played exceptionally well. There have been innumerable QBs who stepped into similar situations and bombed. I can probably buy into the idea that Ryan's rookie year is more impressive overall, but Roethlisberger was very good in his first season. His rookie season was probably one of the best by a QB in the past 10-15 years.
 
Ben was NOT asked to win games for Pittsburgh. That Pitt team was dominant, and Ben was rarely asked to throw.
I never liked this logic and I don't like it now. Even if you're on a team with a dominant defense and a pair of great WRs, you still have to play well to go 13-0 and maintain a 98.1 QB rating. Roethlisberger wasn't asked to carry the Steelers in his rookie season, but that doesn't change the fact that he played exceptionally well. There have been innumerable QBs who stepped into similar situations and bombed.

I can probably buy into the idea that Ryan's rookie year is more impressive overall, but Roethlisberger was very good in his first season. His rookie season was probably one of the best by a QB in the past 10-15 years.
Never tried to say Ben wasn't impressive. What I am saying is that Ben played with handcuffs on...he was rarely, if ever, allowed to sling it downfield that year. While it's true he never needed to, that doesn't change the fact that Ryan has had to, and has done so succesfully. Had Ben needed to, I suspect he would have still had a great rookie year, but I doubt he'd hold that rookie pass rating record.You're right in virtually every thing you wrote in this post...and Ryan has still been (by far IMHO) more impressive.

 
historical stats for rookie QB's (sorted by fantasy points):

Code:
1	Jim Kelly	qb	1986	26	1	16	285	480	3593	7.49	22	17	41	199	4.85	0	275.552	Peyton Manning	qb	1998	22	1	16	326	575	3739	6.50	26	28	15	62	4.13	0	267.153	Vince Young	qb	2006	23	1	15	184	357	2199	6.16	12	13	83	552	6.65	7	241.154	Warren Moon	qb	1984	28	1	16	259	450	3338	7.42	12	14	58	211	3.64	1	226.005	Rick Mirer	qb	1993	23	1	16	274	486	2833	5.83	12	17	68	343	5.04	3	219.956	Butch Songin	qb	1960	36	1	14	187	392	2476	6.32	22	15	11	40	3.64	2	219.807	<strong class='bbc'>Matt Ryan</strong>	qb	2008	23	1	13	227	366	2940	8.03	14	7	42	84	2.00	1	217.408	Fran Tarkenton	qb	1961	21	1	14	157	280	1997	7.13	18	17	56	308	5.50	5	216.659	Dan Marino	qb	1983	22	1	11	173	296	2210	7.47	20	6	28	45	1.61	2	215.0010	Roethlisberger	qb	2004	22	1	14	196	295	2621	8.88	17	11	56	144	2.57	1	214.4511	Chris Weinke	qb	2001	29	1	15	293	540	2931	5.43	11	19	37	128	3.46	6	212.3512	Tim Couch	qb	1999	22	1	15	223	399	2447	6.13	15	13	39	278	7.13	1	205.1513	Byron Leftwich	qb	2003	23	1	15	239	418	2819	6.74	14	16	25	108	4.32	2	201.7514	<strong class='bbc'>Joe Flacco</strong>	qb	2008	23	1	13	212	352	2410	6.85	13	10	47	172	3.66	2	199.00
 
You guys doing nothing but crunching stats haven't seen a game yet. Find a copy of the Saint's game. Despite our defense kindly handing the game back to NO, what Ryan did out there was so far beyond rookie, people don't even call him rookie anymore. Plenty of five year vets in this league who couldn't pull off what he did in this game.

 
Ben was NOT asked to win games for Pittsburgh. That Pitt team was dominant, and Ben was rarely asked to throw.
I never liked this logic and I don't like it now. Even if you're on a team with a dominant defense and a pair of great WRs, you still have to play well to go 13-0 and maintain a 98.1 QB rating. Roethlisberger wasn't asked to carry the Steelers in his rookie season, but that doesn't change the fact that he played exceptionally well. There have been innumerable QBs who stepped into similar situations and bombed.

I can probably buy into the idea that Ryan's rookie year is more impressive overall, but Roethlisberger was very good in his first season. His rookie season was probably one of the best by a QB in the past 10-15 years.
Never tried to say Ben wasn't impressive. What I am saying is that Ben played with handcuffs on...he was rarely, if ever, allowed to sling it downfield that year. While it's true he never needed to, that doesn't change the fact that Ryan has had to, and has done so succesfully. Had Ben needed to, I suspect he would have still had a great rookie year, but I doubt he'd hold that rookie pass rating record.You're right in virtually every thing you wrote in this post...and Ryan has still been (by far IMHO) more impressive.
I'll paraphrase:Ben was asked simply to not make mistakes. They limited his playbook, only gave him a 3rd of the field to work with and let him rely on the run game and defense.

Ryan has not only limited his mistakes, but has full control of the offense and puts the team on his shoulders.

 
I posted this in the Pro Bowl thread but it fits here. It looks like White is on his way to the Pro Bowl which begs the question: How many WR's in NFL history have made their first Pro Bowl with a rookie QB throwing to them? Obviously a testament to Ryan as much as it to White.

 
For historical comparisons, I think Flacco = Roethlisberger while Ryan = Manning.

Ben's team was better than Flacco's, but Ryan's team is better than Manning's was. But as far as their gameplay and what they are asked to do in the offense, Ryan is much closer to Peyton than Big Ben.

 
What I am saying is that Ben played with handcuffs on...he was rarely, if ever, allowed to sling it downfield that year.
Roethlisberger ranked 3rd in yards per completion that year. When asked to throw, he threw it down field frequently in '04. Plaxico averaged 20 YPR that year. Your memory is off.
 
I posted this in the Pro Bowl thread but it fits here. It looks like White is on his way to the Pro Bowl which begs the question: How many WR's in NFL history have made their first Pro Bowl with a rookie QB throwing to them? Obviously a testament to Ryan as much as it to White.
White should have been in the pro bowl last year!
 
Marino probably had one of the more impressive rookie seasons. Marino's 9 starts had a pace that would be 3928 yards, 35 TDs and 10 INTs if it was over a full season, which would probably win a QB the MVP many seasons. Though of course it's a lot of speculation whether he would have played at that pace over his first 7 games if he'd started and not gotten a chance to watch and adjust.

Still though, for production per game it was a pretty awesome rookie year when he's producing at possible MVP levels.

 
I posted this in the Pro Bowl thread but it fits here. It looks like White is on his way to the Pro Bowl which begs the question: How many WR's in NFL history have made their first Pro Bowl with a rookie QB throwing to them? Obviously a testament to Ryan as much as it to White.
Are Jenkins and White the same wRS who people say could not catch the ball when Vick was the QB?
 
Chase Stuart said:
It's the greatest rookie season by a QB, ever.
I agree, yesterday was the first time I watched Ryan the whole game. The guy looks like a seasoned, playoff ready type of QB. The Falcons hit the jackpot.
 
Chase Stuart said:
It's the greatest rookie season by a QB, ever.
Marino only played in 11 games. If you extend Marino's stats for 16 games, he'd have 3215 yards, 29 TDs, and 9 INTs.And Marino is the only rookie QB to start in the Pro Bowl.
 
Chase Stuart said:
It's the greatest rookie season by a QB, ever.
Marino only played in 11 games. If you extend Marino's stats for 16 games, he'd have 3215 yards, 29 TDs, and 9 INTs.And Marino is the only rookie QB to start in the Pro Bowl.
I don't think "starting" the Pro Bowl is a noteworthy honor. Making the Pro Bowl is, and Marino gets credit for being one of the few to reach that level.Had Marino played 16 games and posted those stats, he'd probably beat out Ryan for the best rookie season ever. But he didn't.I've still got Dan in the top two :lmao: .
 
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Chase Stuart said:
renesauz said:
What I am saying is that Ben played with handcuffs on...he was rarely, if ever, allowed to sling it downfield that year.
Roethlisberger ranked 3rd in yards per completion that year. When asked to throw, he threw it down field frequently in '04. Plaxico averaged 20 YPR that year. Your memory is off.
Then why are his yardage totals so frigging low?ANSWER: Because the stats don't show the complete picture. His YPC were terrific because teams attempted to stack the line and stop the run. YPA will normally be higher when you have a dominant run game and are usually playing with a lead (in obvious running situations). Eight men in box = more room in secondary and far more RAC for your WR's. Although Ryan at times plays with the same advantage, it isn't as obvious.Again...nothing I or several others have written is meant to disparage Ben. His season was one of the best ever for a rookie QB. Just showing through epirical and anecdoctal evidance that Ryan's is even better!
 
Chase Stuart said:
renesauz said:
What I am saying is that Ben played with handcuffs on...he was rarely, if ever, allowed to sling it downfield that year.
Roethlisberger ranked 3rd in yards per completion that year. When asked to throw, he threw it down field frequently in '04. Plaxico averaged 20 YPR that year. Your memory is off.
Then why are his yardage totals so frigging low?ANSWER: Because the stats don't show the complete picture. His YPC were terrific because teams attempted to stack the line and stop the run. YPA will normally be higher when you have a dominant run game and are usually playing with a lead (in obvious running situations). Eight men in box = more room in secondary and far more RAC for your WR's. Although Ryan at times plays with the same advantage, it isn't as obvious.Again...nothing I or several others have written is meant to disparage Ben. His season was one of the best ever for a rookie QB. Just showing through epirical and anecdoctal evidance that Ryan's is even better!
YPA isn't YPC.His YPC was terrific because he completed a lot of long passes. Plaxico Burress averaged 20 yards per catch because Roethlisberger was completing bombs down the field to him.
 
David Yudkin said:
Since 1960, only 2 rookies had 3500 passing yards:

Peyton Manning 1998 3739

Jim Kelly 1986 3593

Only 4 had 20+ TD:

Peyton Manning 1998 26 TD, 28 INT

Jim Kelly 1986 22 TD, 17 INT

Butch Songin 1960 22 TD, 15 INT

Dan Marino 1983 20 TD, 6 INT
While technically Kelly was an NFL rookie, he had played proffesional football before the 1986 season.
 
:thumbup: Big Ben relied VERY heavily on a strong running game and a dominating defense. he ddn't come even close to what Ryan's done this year.IN fact, I don't think anybody ever has........
Big Ben went 13-0 as a starter?Record holder for comp % and passer rating amongst rookies, will probably end up with similar TD/INT to Ryan despite not starting 16 games.Won a playoff game?Your right, it was run 1st and a very good D, but I think he deserves to be mentioned.PIT had 2400 yards of rushing in 04, while ATL has 1900 with 3 games to goCan we all agree MTurner > Bettis and Roddy > Ward?The D is another level I agree.
With regard to supporting cast, IMO Ben's was clearly better than Ryan's:Bettis, Staley, Haynes, Parker > Turner, NorwoodWard, Burress, Randle El > White, Jenkins, Douglas, Finneran, Robinson2 Steelers OL (Hartings and Faneca) were 1st team All Pro, and another (Smith) was a Pro Bowler... I don't know for sure, but I assume Atlanta's OL is not that good.Like some have said, I am not disparaging Ben - he had a great rookie season. However, consider:ANY/A: Ryan (7.1) > Ben (6.4)Interception %: Ryan (1.9) > Ben (3.7)Sack %: Ryan (3.4) > Ben (9.2)(In fairness, Ben had better completion and TD percentages.)Now, consider that Ryan has a chance to complete as many passes this season as Ben attempted. There is no doubt that Ryan's season has been more impressive than Ben's rookie season so far.
 
historical stats for rookie QB's (sorted by fantasy points):

Code:
1	Jim Kelly	qb	1986	26	1	16	285	480	3593	7.49	22	17	41	199	4.85	0	275.552	Peyton Manning	qb	1998	22	1	16	326	575	3739	6.50	26	28	15	62	4.13	0	267.153	Vince Young	qb	2006	23	1	15	184	357	2199	6.16	12	13	83	552	6.65	7	241.154	Warren Moon	qb	1984	28	1	16	259	450	3338	7.42	12	14	58	211	3.64	1	226.005	Rick Mirer	qb	1993	23	1	16	274	486	2833	5.83	12	17	68	343	5.04	3	219.956	Butch Songin	qb	1960	36	1	14	187	392	2476	6.32	22	15	11	40	3.64	2	219.807	<strong class='bbc'>Matt Ryan</strong>	qb	2008	23	1	13	227	366	2940	8.03	14	7	42	84	2.00	1	217.408	Fran Tarkenton	qb	1961	21	1	14	157	280	1997	7.13	18	17	56	308	5.50	5	216.659	Dan Marino	qb	1983	22	1	11	173	296	2210	7.47	20	6	28	45	1.61	2	215.0010	Roethlisberger	qb	2004	22	1	14	196	295	2621	8.88	17	11	56	144	2.57	1	214.4511	Chris Weinke	qb	2001	29	1	15	293	540	2931	5.43	11	19	37	128	3.46	6	212.3512	Tim Couch	qb	1999	22	1	15	223	399	2447	6.13	15	13	39	278	7.13	1	205.1513	Byron Leftwich	qb	2003	23	1	15	239	418	2819	6.74	14	16	25	108	4.32	2	201.7514	<strong class='bbc'>Joe Flacco</strong>	qb	2008	23	1	13	212	352	2410	6.85	13	10	47	172	3.66	2	199.00
lol that rick ####### mirer makes that list
 

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