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maybe JJ Arrington wasn't that bad (1 Viewer)

Righetti

Righetti

Footballguy
JJ Arrington was a total bust last year..but be honest.. if Edge was a rookie this year and didn't come with the resume that he does..we might be calling him a total bust..

by the way..

1) he has no time to run

2) even when he does, he just doesn't run hard.. he is so far removed from the slashing Edge days pre injury..

I've been saying it forever.. Edge just never looks like he is running that hard, I know he picks up the blitz and he can do tons of things but there are two things you notice about him

1) he doesn't break tackles\

2) he doesnt' move the pile

and another one

3) he doesn't score TD's.. to the point that for years the Colts threw in Dom Rhodes or whomever in goal-line packages and FF players cried b/c Manning would always throw around the goal-line.

maybe Tony Dungy and Peyton Manning knew something about Edge..now that he has his $$$ at least he is close to some nice golf-courses

 
Yeah, I completely agree that Edge has always looked pedestrian running the ball. Excellent blocker, excellent hands, but a very so-so pure runner.

edit: although no one could run well behind that line. seriously.

 
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Edge proved it in Indy, he can run behind an average line. The Arizona line is pathetic, worse than Houston the last 3 years...just bad.

Bigger is not always better, they are getting pushed into the backfield on every running play...just pathetic

 
Righetti said:
JJ Arrington was a total bust last year..but be honest.. if Edge was a rookie this year and didn't come with the resume that he does..we might be calling him a total bust..
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Might Be? He was a Top 6-8 pick in fantasy drafts this year.....although generally not by anyone with half a brain ;)
 
I lost count of the number of fantastic blitz pickups from James. Seriously. Several times I used my DVR to backup and watch them again.

His O-line sucks at run blocking. Nothing new there. I agree that folks were too harsh in judging Arrington a year ago.

 
James was available at 1.9 in my draft, and I briefly considered him, but then remembered how wretched the Cards O-line is. Thank God.

 
Oakland and Arizona could put all of their guys together on the o-line and still be the worst in the league. These guys Jordan and James have absolutely zero places to go. There is no holes, and if they don't make a guy miss or make something out of nothing like a cut back away from the pressure then they are struggling to get to the line of scrimmage.

 
For what it's worth - and I can't check because my Xbox is in for repairs - if I recall correctly they don't have a single lineman above rated above 75 in Madden :)

 
Oline is the most underrated thing of all time

edge could go to denver right now and finish with 5 ypc this season

 
Arrington isn't doing too poorly returning kicks, so obviously the guy's got some open field running skills, and is sure handed enough to carry the football.

I didn't see the game, but 36 carries for 55 yards is pretty GD weak.

 
Take a look at the play-by-play. It's absolutely amazing.

http://nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay/NFL_20061016_CHI@ARI

Here's a sample:

2-5-ARI28 (13:17) E.James left end to ARZ 27 for -1 yards (Ta.Johnson, T.Harris).

2-8-CHI23 (1:45) E.James left tackle to CHI 26 for -3 yards (M.Brown, L.Briggs).

2-6-ARI37 (14:07) E.James left tackle to ARZ 31 for -6 yards (R.Manning, T.Harris).

1-10-ARI20 (9:27) E.James up the middle to ARZ 21 for 1 yard (M.Brown).

2-7-CHI30 (7:24) E.James right end to CHI 30 for no gain (L.Briggs).

1-10-CHI13 (2:00) E.James up the middle to CHI 13 for no gain (I.Idonije, L.Briggs).

2-10-CHI13 (1:19) E.James up the middle to CHI 13 for no gain (L.Briggs, C.Tillman).

1-10-CHI16 (3:17) E.James up the middle to CHI 17 for -1 yards (L.Briggs, B.Urlacher).

1-10-ARI21 (10:53) E.James right tackle to ARZ 20 for -1 yards (B.Urlacher, H.Hillenmeyer).

2-8-ARI28 (8:44) E.James left tackle to ARZ 26 for -2 yards (B.Urlacher).

I left out PLENTY more -1, -2, no gain, 1 yards, 2 yards, 3 yards... :no:

I have a new nickname for him. NO GAIN EDGERRIN JAMES

Every time Leinart hands off, you hear Edgerrin James... no gain.

He must have set a record tonight for no gain/negative carries. Get Drinen on it.

 
Otis said:
He is not very good.
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I took him in the 1st round, and I sat him two of the first six weeks.I was sitting at 1.7, and couldn't get the idea out of my head that S-Jax was injury-prone, so I pulled the trigger on this plodding mud donkey. Good job outta me! :bag: :bag: :bag:
 
Carter_Can_Fly said:
James is not the problem; it is the line.
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Obviously.He's not as good as he looked in Indy, and he's not as bad as he looks now.Edge's strength with the Colts was his patience as a runner. String it out, string it out.... hit the hole. That type of runner can't have much success behind this line. They need more of a speedy, darting runner. A guy like FWP, for instance, would make Arizona's line look more respectable.
 
Given Edge's struggles, it also reflects how great Tomlinson is. In LT's very early years, he played behind a mincemeat OL himself, yet put up fantastic numbers.

Just some food for thought...

 
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Not for nothing but I thought Arrington looked decent in the carries he had. Considering he was playing the NFL's best defense and running behind the NFL's worst offensive line, he seemed to run hard and make something out of nothing on limited carries.

 
Shick! said:
I lost count of the number of fantastic blitz pickups from James. Seriously. Several times I used my DVR to backup and watch them again.His O-line sucks at run blocking. Nothing new there. I agree that folks were too harsh in judging Arrington a year ago.
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he might be the best RB in the league at the blitz pickup.. but I also thought that (while in Indy) he never looked like he was running that hard.. I wish I could describe it with better detail but for the past 4 years he always looks like he gets caught from behind and runs with no strength...
 
I had these 2 posts last night in a WW thread which didn't get any response. Shoulda started the JJA thread myself :)

Yesterday, 10:03 PM Post #20

I know it's the Bears DT but I've read this before elsewhere and now I'm seeing it for myself ... but Arrington sure does look more explosive than Edge. I know there won't be a switch but I could imagine more PT down the stretch. Just MAYBE he still has dynasty value if not of course the injury factor for Edge. For larger leagues only obviously.

Yesterday, 11:21 PM Post #21

A 1.5 YPC is just ungood regardless of the defense. For the record, 62 total yards minus a fumble in 37 touches isn't many more fantasy points than JJA managed in 3 touches with 33 yards.

In a standard scoring system that's 4.2 vs 3.3 points and JJA actually wins in a PPR. I'm not saying to cut Edge for JJA but Edge has a 2.7 YPC on the season after this game vs the 3.3 YPC that got JJA benched last year.

The 3rd option here is that the OL is just that bad and maybe once fixed JJA's dynasty value can jump.

 
During the game they had a quote by Green where in he said something like the linemen all make 3 mil or more and he told them they'd better earn their jobs. Well, I hope he holds them accountable now.

 
Shick! said:
I lost count of the number of fantastic blitz pickups from James. Seriously. Several times I used my DVR to backup and watch them again.His O-line sucks at run blocking. Nothing new there. I agree that folks were too harsh in judging Arrington a year ago.
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Post draft I told the guy who drafted Edge your gonna struggle with him. He blew me off and said *championship baby!*I saw him last week... prior Buffalo Storm and he said, I was dead on... Edge is barely a top 20 back in our league.... barely a viable 2nd RB. Its not him as much as that O line.The thing that has simply amazed me... Leinart... how can tehy NOT runblock so good, yet give him enough time to throw????I didnt see any of the game so I speculating.
 
I still say scheme. They arent using Edge correctly. He's not an I- formation back that hammers up the gut behind the FB.

 
Shick! said:
I agree that folks were too harsh in judging Arrington a year ago.
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The one game I watched Arrington last year was when they played Washington. What I saw had nothing to do with talent, but with heart and toughness. There was a 4th-and-2 Arizona had to have and he fell to the ground one yard short to avoid a tackle. While that was just my one observation, it matched what I was hearing about him from those who had watched him all year. The couple times I've seen him this year, it appears he's changed that some.
 
dgreen said:
Shick! said:
I agree that folks were too harsh in judging Arrington a year ago.
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The one game I watched Arrington last year was when they played Washington. What I saw had nothing to do with talent, but with heart and toughness. There was a 4th-and-2 Arizona had to have and he fell to the ground one yard short to avoid a tackle. While that was just my one observation, it matched what I was hearing about him from those who had watched him all year. The couple times I've seen him this year, it appears he's changed that some.
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Took Edge at 1.9 an Glad that I did. This has do more with our scoring system but he is still ranked 12th and I think he will have big game next week vs oak.Just sample of scoring in my leauge20 Carries =4100 yards=47 Repct =4 (+1 point per recpt after that) Last nightJames 36 carries =8 Points50 yards =1 PointFumble = -1 Total =8 (He was on my bench and out scored Caddy by 4) Not bad outting vs Chi.
 
tietzjd said:
dgreen said:
Shick! said:
I agree that folks were too harsh in judging Arrington a year ago.
Click to expand...
The one game I watched Arrington last year was when they played Washington. What I saw had nothing to do with talent, but with heart and toughness. There was a 4th-and-2 Arizona had to have and he fell to the ground one yard short to avoid a tackle. While that was just my one observation, it matched what I was hearing about him from those who had watched him all year. The couple times I've seen him this year, it appears he's changed that some.
Click to expand...
Took Edge at 1.9 an Glad that I did. This has do more with our scoring system but he is still ranked 12th and I think he will have big game next week vs oak.Just sample of scoring in my leauge20 Carries =4100 yards=47 Repct =4 (+1 point per recpt after that) Last nightJames 36 carries =8 Points50 yards =1 PointFumble = -1 Total =8 (He was on my bench and out scored Caddy by 4) Not bad outting vs Chi.
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in a PPC league maybe..
 
Edge is an extremely talented RB. The problem is clearly the ARZ O-line. It's beyond awful. LT, Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, and the ghost of Walter Payton would all average less than 3yds per carry behind that garbage.

Edge was consistently hit at or behind the line of scrimmage on almost every running play. There were no holes and the run blocking was non-existent. Urlacher even said it himself that he was not blocked all game.

 
I wondered the same thing about J.J. I avoided Edge in every fantasy league I'm in this year, because I firmly believed the offensive system & line there was no good for any RB. This seems to have been confirmed already. Maybe J.J. will have success somewhere else ...

 
Righetti said:
Shick! said:
I lost count of the number of fantastic blitz pickups from James. Seriously. Several times I used my DVR to backup and watch them again.His O-line sucks at run blocking. Nothing new there. I agree that folks were too harsh in judging Arrington a year ago.
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he might be the best RB in the league at the blitz pickup.. but I also thought that (while in Indy) he never looked like he was running that hard.. I wish I could describe it with better detail but for the past 4 years he always looks like he gets caught from behind and runs with no strength...
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7 mill a year to pick up the blitz?? :shock: Pay Ayanbedejo $50 a game to do it.
 
TwinTurbo said:
Edge is an extremely talented RB. The problem is clearly the ARZ O-line. It's beyond awful. LT, Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, and the ghost of Walter Payton would all average less than 3yds per carry behind that garbage. Edge was consistently hit at or behind the line of scrimmage on almost every running play. There were no holes and the run blocking was non-existent. Urlacher even said it himself that he was not blocked all game.
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Sanders and Payton had bad lines for most of their careers, and played HOF ball. No- I am an Edge supporter, but those guys would have had the vision to change direction much earlier and (once-in-awhile) break one. James is no threat to do this, even against average defenses.
 
losgalacticos said:
TwinTurbo said:
Edge is an extremely talented RB. The problem is clearly the ARZ O-line. It's beyond awful. LT, Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, and the ghost of Walter Payton would all average less than 3yds per carry behind that garbage. Edge was consistently hit at or behind the line of scrimmage on almost every running play. There were no holes and the run blocking was non-existent. Urlacher even said it himself that he was not blocked all game.
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Sanders and Payton had bad lines for most of their careers, and played HOF ball. No- I am an Edge supporter, but those guys would have had the vision to change direction much earlier and (once-in-awhile) break one. James is no threat to do this, even against average defenses.
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I'm sorry but you can't change direction when Brian Urlacher hits you immediately after receiving the handoff. There were zero holes for Edge to run at or through. Did you watch the game? He ran into a brick wall on almost every play.
 
It's kind of ironic. Everyone (outside of the people living in the mountainous region between Pakistan and Afghanistan) know that football games are won/loss in the trenches. But when a game is acutally won or lost all the blame/glory goes straight to the QB and top skill position player.

I've never quite figured out why that is. :confused:

 
The thing about Edge is that he's been a finesse runner for a while, a patient runner with decent vision. The power, run-you-over Edge left a long time ago. Some guys can survive without a line or another aspect of the offense that will change defensive game plans; he can't.

Arizona will have to start airing the ball out every week for one simple reason: you can mask a weak offensive line a lot easier in the pass game than you can in the running game. This line is terrible and they have no chance to run the ball consistently on most teams.

 
Borat said:
Sheriff66 said:
Give me an average back with a great OL over a HOF back with a bad OL any day of the week...
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:goodposting: Arizona was foolish for spending big money on a RB when they knew their offensive line was terrible.
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their line has talent. IIRC combined their one of the higher paid units. They fired their OL coach(Everett Lindsay) last offseason and thought he was the prob. I gotta say I still think it either is coaching that line or it's time to say good riddance to some of them. They have talent on that line though. I mean I will grant ya that most weeks they have 5 Mike Williams' but do you fault the Bills for drafting him?
 
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Did not understand WHY the heck they continued to run the ball when it was obvious they couldn't make any yards. They should have focused on the passing game. Since the OC was fired, will their offense switch gears and vastly decrease the running attempts?

Two games in a row, Lienart has passed for two TDs in the first quarter and then gone conservative and lost effectiveness.

 
rzrback77 said:
Did not understand WHY the heck they continued to run the ball when it was obvious they couldn't make any yards. They should have focused on the passing game. Since the OC was fired, will their offense switch gears and vastly decrease the running attempts?Two games in a row, Lienart has passed for two TDs in the first quarter and then gone conservative and lost effectiveness.
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time and to keep the Bears honest, ya just gotta. IMO that's not the OC fault, most OCs would run then.I agree he's started strong and it's odd how it kind of dwindled (for the most part)as the game wore on. It's possible the O is quite stripped down for the rook and while the D adjusts they're limitted in how they can react with # of plays he's comfortable with. I've been meaning to look at the end of the first early 2nd to see if he was hit/sacked then. I hope it's not that he's shaken because he does look special.
 
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