Maybe San Diego wasn't so stupid (1 Viewer)

[Ministry of Pain]

They got Phillip Rivers who may or may not pan out. They were locked into taking Manning and held him ransom for the NYGiants 1st round pick next year. So the Chargers are now sitting with 2 1st rounders next year....maybe the Giants pick will only be the 20th pick but they can combine those 2 1st round picks if need be and move up if they want.Next, they also get McCardell which is a major upgrade and a perfect compliment in a run 1st offense. Gates at TE, Parker a serviceable #2...Keenan fits like a glove for that team right now. Has also won a Super Bowl...something Marty has never done. I still think they got the better of the Vick trade. They have the best RB in football right now...the kind of back that can win a championship for you. LT does it ALL.And for the QB they have gotten Brees highly motivated to keep his job. Rivers is aproject and should hold a clipboard for 2 years at least. If Brees can keep this up and don't forget his is in only his 4th season....so he might get better, than the Chargers really have a nice offense in place. They still need to upgrade the OL but that will come.Defense is a work in progress but they have invested in the secondary on the corners...their DL has played pretty tough, and their LB are a bunch of nobodys that are running to the ball and wrapping guys up. I find it funny that basically they are just doing their job....making tackles, what a novel idea in the NFL. Other teams should look into it.

 

[-OZ-]

I still think they got the better of the Vick trade. They have the best RB in football right now...the kind of back that can win a championship for you. LT does it ALL.And for the QB they have gotten Brees highly motivated to keep his job. Rivers is aproject and should hold a clipboard for 2 years at least. If Brees can keep this up and don't forget his is in only his 4th season....so he might get better, than the Chargers really have a nice offense in place. They still need to upgrade the OL but that will come.

First, I agree completely, I'd rather have LT and Dwight than Vick.Do you expect Brees to resign with SD? We have another thread going on that, so I wouldn't want to make that the emphasis here, but I just don't think he will.Lets not pat SD on the back too much, they could have had Gallery, they signed Boston last year, and gave him away this year, their franchise hasn't made the best decisions, but right now everything is looking good in San D.

 

[mulliganm]

I still think they got the better of the Vick trade. They have the best RB in football right now...the kind of back that can win a championship for you. LT does it ALL.And for the QB they have gotten Brees highly motivated to keep his job. Rivers is aproject and should hold a clipboard for 2 years at least. If Brees can keep this up and don't forget his is in only his 4th season....so he might get better, than the Chargers really have a nice offense in place. They still need to upgrade the OL but that will come.

First, I agree completely, I'd rather have LT and Dwight than Vick.

Just so you know, the trade for Vick was LT, Brees and Dwight (and some cash, I believe)

 

[smcindoe]

Just so you know, the trade for Vick was LT, Brees and Dwight (and some cash, I believe)

I don't think Brees (or the pick he was taken with) was part of the deal. The only connection is that they obviously don't take Brees in the second round if they had already drafted Vick.

 

[Titans2003]

The Chargers got Tomlinson (the flip-flopped first-round picks), Brees (the Falcon's #2 that year), and Dwight. I don't know about the cash. I understand Vick's talent, but people who think that San Diego didn't get the better of the deal are insane.

 

[wazoo11]

What will they do with Brees at the end of the season?Trade up to get Mike Williams or a good WR?

 

[scooterg61]

What will they do with Brees at the end of the season?Trade up to get Mike Williams or a good WR?

isnt brees an UNRESTRICTED free agent..thats why i didnt understand why they turned down GB for a trade.... now brees can name his team and his price... SD wil lose out.. didnt get that... any homers with why SD turned down GB???and am i right hes a UN restricted FA

 

[JAA]

The Chargers got Tomlinson (the flip-flopped first-round picks), Brees (the Falcon's #2 that year), and Dwight. I don't know about the cash. I understand Vick's talent, but people who think that San Diego didn't get the better of the deal are insane.

The Falcons got the better end of the deal not because of NFL talent, but because of the marketability of the player. Vick sells a lot more than LT2, Brees, ... the entire SD team.JAA

 

[rabidfireweasel]

isnt brees an UNRESTRICTED free agent..thats why i didnt understand why they turned down GB for a trade.... now brees can name his team and his price... SD wil lose out.. didnt get that... any homers with why SD turned down GB???

It doesn't take a homer-1)Rivers wasn't ready2)Marty is on the hotseat3)Brees has played well

 

[Ditka is God]

The Chargers got Tomlinson (the flip-flopped first-round picks), Brees (the Falcon's #2 that year), and Dwight. I don't know about the cash. I understand Vick's talent, but people who think that San Diego didn't get the better of the deal are insane.

The trade was Vick for Falcons' picks #1 (5), #3 (67), 2002 #2 (48) which San Diego used on RB LaDanian Tomlinson, CB Tay Cody, WR Reche Caldwell.edit to add link: Vick Trade

 

[Marauder]

The Chargers got Tomlinson (the flip-flopped first-round picks), Brees (the Falcon's #2 that year), and Dwight.

Thats not quite correct. The deal was the falcons first and third round picks that year (Tomlinson and Tay Cody), their second round pick the following year (Reche Caldwell, I believe) and Dwight for Vick.Although, in reality you do have to consider Brees part of the deal because they never would have taken him in the second round if the had taken Vick in the first. They probably would have taken a RB there (Barlow or Lamont Jordan most likely). So, one way to look at the deal from the Chargers point of view is Vick and {Barlow or Jordan} for Tomlinson, Brees, Dwight and Caldwell.

 

[-OZ-]

The Chargers got Tomlinson (the flip-flopped first-round picks), Brees (the Falcon's #2 that year), and Dwight.

Thats not quite correct. The deal was the falcons first and third round picks that year (Tomlinson and Tay Cody), their second round pick the following year (Reche Caldwell, I believe) and Dwight for Vick.Although, in reality you do have to consider Brees part of the deal because they never would have taken him in the second round if the had taken Vick in the first. They probably would have taken a RB there (Barlow or Lamont Jordan most likely). So, one way to look at the deal from the Chargers point of view is Vick and {Barlow or Jordan} for Tomlinson, Brees, Dwight and Caldwell.

Not a bad perspective.It looks like SD got the better RB, QB, CB, WR, etc. Lost some marketing, but I don't know that SD can market quite as well as Atlanta anyway.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Lets not pat SD on the back too much, they could have had Gallery, they signed Boston last year, and gave him away this year, their franchise hasn't made the best decisions, but right now everything is looking good in San D.

Boston was a Butler acquisition. AJ Smith got rid of Boston and Wiley, which were fantastic moves.I originally wanted the Chargers to draft Gallery, but the OT they drafted (Shane Olivea, 7th round) has looked much better than Gallery so far.

 

[cstu]

SD getting LT wasn't that bad at the time either. They were just coming off the Leaf debacle and couldn't afford to take on another project QB. LT was ready to step in and be a starting RB, while Vick needed a few (4+?) years to become an NFL QB. The trade really worked out for both teams since the Chargers got players they needed and the Falcons got the most marketable player the league has probably ever seen. Vick also plays on turf most of his games so it is a better situation for him than SD.Boston didn't work out but the guy has a ton of problems to go with his ton of talent.

 

[cstu]

Rivers is aproject and should hold a clipboard for 2 years at least.

-------------------

Gotta disagree with this. The Chargers wanted Rivers since they thought he was more ready than Big Ben to start right away. That was the thought of most draft "experts"

Peter King on Rivers

Another article about Rivers

 

[Air Coryell]

Rivers is aproject and should hold a clipboard for 2 years at least.-------------------Gotta disagree with this. The Chargers wanted Rivers since they thought he was more ready than Big Ben to start right away. That was the thought of most draft "experts" Peter King on RiversAnother article about Rivers

Maybe so, but is Brees going to want to resign in SD? Why would he want to stay here when he knows the management gave up on him and drafted Rivers. Play anohter season where he has to look over his shoulder, get pulled if he ever struggles. At this pace he can go anywhere he wants where there is a QB opening. Rivers has to start next season, too much money vested in a QB to sit on the sides. Rivers can't get better There were many Charger fans on here durring the draft that hated the Rivers pick because Drew didnt get a fair shot to show what he could do. I think many believed(myself included) that if you gave Drew weapons and time to throw he can do well. His success this year isn't really that surprising.

 

[cstu]

Brees won't be back. The Chargers had to make a decision before the draft whether they wanted to keep Brees as the QB. It came down to this - if he would have played bad this year they would be able to keep him cheap but wouldn't really want to, however if he played well they would want to keep him but he'd be a lot of money. I highly doubt Brees was interested in negotiating a contract after last year's performance. In my mind, the Chargers did what they had to do. After seeing how he's doing, would I rather of had them pick Roy Williams or Sean Taylor? Of course, but that's hindsight.

 

[Kiddnets]

I think Brees is a RFA this year so SD will probably make a tender offer that would take a 1st rd and a 3rd rd to obtain him - then trade him for the best offer ala Price. SD hopes he keeps playing so well - they could be looking at 3 1st rders next year!!!

 

[Jason Wood]

I'll tell you, in a league that is desperate for good quarterbacks (look what Miami was willing to give up for AJ "snicker snicker' Feeley) I think Drew Brees has already made himself a TON of money. Even if Rivers took over from here (which obviously isn't going to happen), I think Brees has shown he can run a prolific and balanced offensive attack when given the weapons.

 

[cstu]

I think Brees is a RFA this year so SD will probably make a tender offer that would take a 1st rd and a 3rd rd to obtain him - then trade him for the best offer ala Price. SD hopes he keeps playing so well - they could be looking at 3 1st rders next year!!!

No, he's an unrestricted free agent.

 

[cstu]

I'll tell you, in a league that is desperate for good quarterbacks (look what Miami was willing to give up for AJ "snicker snicker' Feeley) I think Drew Brees has already made himself a TON of money. Even if Rivers took over from here (which obviously isn't going to happen), I think Brees has shown he can run a prolific and balanced offensive attack when given the weapons.

He had better hope that he goes to a team with a great RB. Much of his success is based on the threat of LT in the backfield. LT gets so much attention that someone is usually open and Brees has just been finding the open guy.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

He had better hope that he goes to a team with a great RB.

And a good OL.The difference between Brees without a good OL (2003) and with a good OL (2004) is significant.

(That's true for any quarterback, not just Brees. But Brees may understand the importance of a good OL better than most QBs do because of his own experience.)

 

[Ghost Rider]

Getting rid of David Boston was a smart move.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Getting rid of David Boston was a smart move.

And Marcellus Wiley.

 

[jonessed]

Getting rid of David Boston was a smart move.

And Marcellus Wiley.

But not Rodney Harrison and arguably not Seau. Seau would have taken a paycut and was a big symbol in that community. His better years are behind him, but they didn't even *try* to work anything out. Harrison seems more obvious though. He is playing great at NE and will probably continue to do so for at least a few more years.

 

[Jason Wood]

Getting rid of David Boston was a smart move.

And Marcellus Wiley.

But not Marvin Harrison and arguably not Seau. Seau would have taken a paycut and was a big symbol in that community. His better years are behind him, but they didn't even *try* to work anything out. Harrison seems more obvious though. He is playing great at NE and will probably continue to do so for at least a few more years.

RODNEY Marvin Harrison?

 

[Me & My Uncle]

If I were a GM, I would not take a stud RB before putting the other pieces in place. By the time the Chargers fill develop Rivers and get an O-line, LT could easily be spent as a runner. The shelf life of most RBs is a lot shorter than that of other positions.I think the Cowboys did it right -- Irvin first, Aikman 2nd, Emmitt 3rd. By the time Emmitt came in, the team was ready for him. Colts did it the same way.

 

[cstu]

If I were a GM, I would not take a stud RB before putting the other pieces in place. By the time the Chargers fill develop Rivers and get an O-line, LT could easily be spent as a runner. The shelf life of most RBs is a lot shorter than that of other positions.I think the Cowboys did it right -- Irvin first, Aikman 2nd, Emmitt 3rd. By the time Emmitt came in, the team was ready for him. Colts did it the same way.

They tried doing it that way - Ryan Leaf?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Getting rid of David Boston was a smart move.

And Marcellus Wiley.

But not Marvin Harrison and arguably not Seau.

Rodney Harrison is a great player who didn't fit at all into Dale Lindsay's defensive scheme. Harrison was a liability his last year with the Chargers. I blame Lindsay for that, not Harrison. (They were using Harrison to cover the deep half of the field in a cover-2 defense instead of letting him play up closer to the line like the Patriots do, where he is most effective.)But I agree with you that letting Rodney go was a mistake: they should have let Lindsay go instead. (At least he's gone now.)

Seau would have taken a paycut and was a big symbol in that community.  His better years are behind him, but they didn't even *try* to work anything out.

This is incorrect. The Chargers approached Junior about restructuring his contract, and Seau responded by publicly demanding to be traded.It would have been nice to see him retire as a Charger, but he was not worth his salary.

 

[jonessed]

Seau would have taken a paycut and was a big symbol in that community.  His better years are behind him, but they didn't even *try* to work anything out.

This is incorrect. The Chargers approached Junior about restructuring his contract, and Seau responded by publicly demanding to be traded.It would have been nice to see him retire as a Charger, but he was not worth his salary.

I've never heard that and I lived in San Diego at the time. I'm not saying that it is or isn't true. The press just didn't report it that way.

RODNEY Marvin Harrison?

Yes, sorry. I was talking about a Marvin trade earlier and I guess I still had him on the brain .

 

[Marvelous]

If I were a GM, I would not take a stud RB before putting the other pieces in place. By the time the Chargers fill develop Rivers and get an O-line, LT could easily be spent as a runner. The shelf life of most RBs is a lot shorter than that of other positions.I think the Cowboys did it right -- Irvin first, Aikman 2nd, Emmitt 3rd. By the time Emmitt came in, the team was ready for him. Colts did it the same way.

You left off a few name:Mike Sherrard, Michael Irvin, Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith, Alvin Harper, who they drafted in the first round since Sherrard and Irvin weren't doing very well.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

M.O.P. - weren't you telling me back in August the Chargers would be lucky to win a game? Because you heard it from Hacksaw! Lolz

 

[Barry Jive and The Uptown Five]

He had better hope that he goes to a team with a great RB.

And a good OL.The difference between Brees without a good OL (2003) and with a good OL (2004) is significant.

(That's true for any quarterback, not just Brees. But Brees may understand the importance of a good OL better than most QBs do because of his own experience.)

I'll trust your opinion on this, but I have to ask.How is the SD OL better? I mean, obviously the offense is working, but I honestly do not know how the OL improved.

Can you give a run-down on the moves from '03 to '04?

I mean, they let their perceived best OL from last year (OC Ball) go for nothing. How have they replaced everyone? Just curious.

 

[Gr00vus]

He had better hope that he goes to a team with a great RB.

And a good OL.The difference between Brees without a good OL (2003) and with a good OL (2004) is significant.

(That's true for any quarterback, not just Brees. But Brees may understand the importance of a good OL better than most QBs do because of his own experience.)

I'll trust your opinion on this, but I have to ask.How is the SD OL better? I mean, obviously the offense is working, but I honestly do not know how the OL improved.

Can you give a run-down on the moves from '03 to '04?

I mean, they let their perceived best OL from last year (OC Ball) go for nothing. How have they replaced everyone? Just curious.

They've replaced everyone. I was saying this over and over and over again this preseason but no one wanted to listen. They started 11 different offensive line configurations last year due to injury and suckage. The started no less than 14 different players at the offensive line positions last year.Hardwick, Oben, Goff, Olivea and Fonoti are an entirely new offensive line - only Fonoti was around last year and he was out all year due to injury. Hardwick's had injury problems, but he's definitely played better than Ball.

It's that simple, their offensive line is miles ahead of what it was last year, and that is why Brees looks like an all star instead of a high schooler.

Let's also keep in mind that the Chargers are playing a last place schedule, and some of the match ups that looked like tough match ups going into the season haven't turned out that way - making Brees's job even easier.

I'm interested to see what will happen when they play another true upper echelon NFL team, however the only one even close to that status seems to be the Colts near the end of the season, as I don't think Denver or KC can be considered top tier teams - and maybe not even the Colts for that matter. They lost to the Jets earlier and beat the Jags, maybe the Jets are a top echelon team, but I don't think they are, and the Jags look to not be quite there either.

People are getting carried away with how good the Chargers are right now - they're allright, but not as good as they seem, yet.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

How is the SD OL better?

They have new starters at LT, LG, C, RG, and RT..LT: last year Damion McIntosh/Ed Ellis, this year Roman Oben (from Buccaneers) = huge upgrade

LG: last year Kelvin Garmon/Michael Keathley, this year Toniu Fonoti (was on IR last year) = huge upgrade

C: last year Jason Ball/Corey Raymer, this year Nick Hardwick (rookie, 3rd round) = nice upgrade

RG: last year Solomon Paige/Phil Bogle, this year Mike Goff (from Bengals) = huge upgrade

RT: last year Vaughn Parker/Courtney Van Buren, this year Shane Olivea (rookie, 7th round) = substantial upgrade

 

[jwvdcw]

SD getting LT wasn't that bad at the time either. They were just coming off the Leaf debacle and couldn't afford to take on another project QB. LT was ready to step in and be a starting RB, while Vick needed a few (4+?) years to become an NFL QB. The trade really worked out for both teams since the Chargers got players they needed and the Falcons got the most marketable player the league has probably ever seen. Vick also plays on turf most of his games so it is a better situation for him than SD.Boston didn't work out but the guy has a ton of problems to go with his ton of talent.

Vick needed two years(sat the bench one year, played the next) to take a 5-11 team and turn them into a playoff team that won in Green Bay.

 

[jwvdcw]

Rivers is aproject and should hold a clipboard for 2 years at least.

I agree completely.Why does everyone think that Brees wants to leave so badly? Things are going pretty well for him here. Unless he can get a lot more money somewhere else, I see no reason to leave provided the Chargers tell him that he'll start as long as he plays better than Rivers(i.e. Don't pull a 'Bengals' and just play the young guy just for the sake of it).

 

[jwvdcw]

I'll tell you, in a league that is desperate for good quarterbacks (look what Miami was willing to give up for AJ "snicker snicker' Feeley) I think Drew Brees has already made himself a TON of money. Even if Rivers took over from here (which obviously isn't going to happen), I think Brees has shown he can run a prolific and balanced offensive attack when given the weapons.

I'm not so sure about this, which is why I think he should stay in SD.Brees doesn't have a great arm nor does he have great height. He is accurate on short passes.So which system will maximize his talents? One with a great pass catching RB, a great pass catching TE, and good short yardages WR, with a deep threat to occassionally keep defenses honest.San Diego really appears to be perfect for him imo.

 

[Jason Wood]

I'll tell you, in a league that is desperate for good quarterbacks (look what Miami was willing to give up for AJ "snicker snicker' Feeley) I think Drew Brees has already made himself a TON of money. Even if Rivers took over from here (which obviously isn't going to happen), I think Brees has shown he can run a prolific and balanced offensive attack when given the weapons.

I'm not so sure about this, which is why I think he should stay in SD.Brees doesn't have a great arm nor does he have great height. He is accurate on short passes.So which system will maximize his talents? One with a great pass catching RB, a great pass catching TE, and good short yardages WR, with a deep threat to occassionally keep defenses honest.San Diego really appears to be perfect for him imo.

I never understand this "strong arm" argument...explain to me how Drew Brees lacks the physical arm strength that guys like Chad Pennington, Trent Green, Matt Hasselbeck and Tom Brady do.

 

[jwvdcw]

Let's also keep in mind that the Chargers are playing a last place schedule, and some of the match ups that looked like tough match ups going into the season haven't turned out that way - making Brees's job even easier.

@HoustonNY Jets@BroncosTennesseeJacksonville@Atlanta@CarolinaOaklandSo their out of division schedule so far has been: Houston(4-3), NY Jets(5-1), Tennessee(3-5), Jacksonville(5-3), Atlanta(6-2), and Carolina(1-6).I don't think thats all that easy.

 

[jwvdcw]

I'll tell you, in a league that is desperate for good quarterbacks (look what Miami was willing to give up for AJ "snicker snicker' Feeley) I think Drew Brees has already made himself a TON of money. Even if Rivers took over from here (which obviously isn't going to happen), I think Brees has shown he can run a prolific and balanced offensive attack when given the weapons.

I'm not so sure about this, which is why I think he should stay in SD.Brees doesn't have a great arm nor does he have great height. He is accurate on short passes.So which system will maximize his talents? One with a great pass catching RB, a great pass catching TE, and good short yardages WR, with a deep threat to occassionally keep defenses honest.San Diego really appears to be perfect for him imo.

I never understand this "strong arm" argument...explain to me how Drew Brees lacks the physical arm strength that guys like Chad Pennington, Trent Green, Matt Hasselbeck and Tom Brady do.

A lot of good QBs don't have great arms.

 

[NYG Endzone]

Interesting read on Vick trade

http://www.tcervo.com/index.php?p=78

 

[cstu]

SD getting LT wasn't that bad at the time either. They were just coming off the Leaf debacle and couldn't afford to take on another project QB. LT was ready to step in and be a starting RB, while Vick needed a few (4+?) years to become an NFL QB. The trade really worked out for both teams since the Chargers got players they needed and the Falcons got the most marketable player the league has probably ever seen. Vick also plays on turf most of his games so it is a better situation for him than SD.Boston didn't work out but the guy has a ton of problems to go with his ton of talent.

Vick needed two years(sat the bench one year, played the next) to take a 5-11 team and turn them into a playoff team that won in Green Bay.

Vick is an X factor against defenses and can get the job done with his feet, but he's not an NFL QB yet. Until he can throw the ball consistently (as he did for parts of 2002) the Falcons won't be going far in the playoffs. I think Vick will become a great QB but he's not there yet. My point was that the Chargers weren't a good fit for him because they needed help and too many other positions and they play on grass, not turf.

 

[cstu]

Interesting read on Vick trade http://www.tcervo.com/index.php?p=78

Good article. It just goes to show that you don't judge a team based on how many wins the team had but on how much the trade helped each team. There's no doubt that Vick was crucial for the Falcons, but without the players that the Chargers drafted they would still be struggling to win 4 games.

 

[Gr00vus]

Let's also keep in mind that the Chargers are playing a last place schedule, and some of the match ups that looked like tough match ups going into the season haven't turned out that way - making Brees's job even easier.

@HoustonNY Jets@BroncosTennesseeJacksonville@Atlanta@CarolinaOaklandSo their out of division schedule so far has been: Houston(4-3), NY Jets(5-1), Tennessee(3-5), Jacksonville(5-3), Atlanta(6-2), and Carolina(1-6).I don't think thats all that easy.

Houston currently ranked 25th in passing defenseJets currently ranked 16th in passing defenseTennessee currently ranked 20th in passing defenseJacksonville currently ranked 24th in passing defenseAtlanta currently ranked 30th in passing defenseCarolina currently ranked 6th in passing defenseaverage rank: 20.17Sorry, try again.

 

[NYG Endzone]

Vick rushing this season... ON ARTIFICIAL SURFACES 34 241 7.1 1ON GRASS FIELDS 31 222 7.2 0

 

[cstu]

Rivers is aproject and should hold a clipboard for 2 years at least.

I agree completely.Why does everyone think that Brees wants to leave so badly? Things are going pretty well for him here. Unless he can get a lot more money somewhere else, I see no reason to leave provided the Chargers tell him that he'll start as long as he plays better than Rivers(i.e. Don't pull a 'Bengals' and just play the young guy just for the sake of it).

The point is not what Brees wants, but what the Chargers want. They don't want Brees and they paid Rivers a huge contract. The Chargers is the perfect system for Brees - great RB, decent OL, decent WR and a good defense. Unfortunately he needs all that to be successful - unlike a QB like Rivers that can control the game with the pass. I admire Brees for what he has done, but the Chargers have their QB of the future.

 

[-OZ-]

Interesting read on Vick trade http://www.tcervo.com/index.php?p=78

Good article. It just goes to show that you don't judge a team based on how many wins the team had but on how much the trade helped each team. There's no doubt that Vick was crucial for the Falcons, but without the players that the Chargers drafted they would still be struggling to win 4 games.

Maybe.Or maybe they would have drafted Andre Johnson, McGahee, and Nick Barnett and would be as good or better than they are now.We never know, but the trade does seem to be a good one by itself.But, to say they'd be struggling 5 years later, do we really know?

 

[jwvdcw]

SD getting LT wasn't that bad at the time either.  They were just coming off the Leaf debacle and couldn't afford to take on another project QB.  LT was ready to step in and be a starting RB, while Vick needed a few (4+?) years to become an NFL QB.  The trade really worked out for both teams since the Chargers got players they needed and the Falcons got the most marketable player the league has probably ever seen.  Vick also plays on turf most of his games so it is a better situation for him than SD.Boston didn't work out but the guy has a ton of problems to go with his ton of talent.

Vick needed two years(sat the bench one year, played the next) to take a 5-11 team and turn them into a playoff team that won in Green Bay.

Vick is an X factor against defenses and can get the job done with his feet, but he's not an NFL QB yet. Until he can throw the ball consistently (as he did for parts of 2002) the Falcons won't be going far in the playoffs. I think Vick will become a great QB but he's not there yet. My point was that the Chargers weren't a good fit for him because they needed help and too many other positions and they play on grass, not turf.

Not to totally hijack....I totally agree that Vick is not a great passer yet. However, I think that if he gets hot during the playoffs that he can indeed take his team far because if hes on, hes nearly unstoppable.

 

[jwvdcw]

Let's also keep in mind that the Chargers are playing a last place schedule, and some of the match ups that looked like tough match ups going into the season haven't turned out that way - making Brees's job even easier. 

@HoustonNY Jets@BroncosTennesseeJacksonville@Atlanta@CarolinaOaklandSo their out of division schedule so far has been: Houston(4-3), NY Jets(5-1), Tennessee(3-5), Jacksonville(5-3), Atlanta(6-2), and Carolina(1-6).I don't think thats all that easy.

Houston currently ranked 25th in passing defenseJets currently ranked 16th in passing defenseTennessee currently ranked 20th in passing defenseJacksonville currently ranked 24th in passing defenseAtlanta currently ranked 30th in passing defenseCarolina currently ranked 6th in passing defenseaverage rank: 20.17Sorry, try again.

Wins...thats all that matter. Those are good teams.Moreover, a good team often has a poor pass defense ranking because teams are always throwing a lot while behind and racking up garbage time stats.Brees has led them to wins against tough teams.