What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

McCarthy and McConnell Wanted ‘Son of a B*tch’ Trump Out of Politics After Jan. 6 Riot, (1 Viewer)

She said the election was not on the level, and several times she called Trump illegitimate.  She helped justify the “Resistance”, the Russia collusion narrative, and the poisoning of Trump’s Presidency.  Not on the level of what Trump did, but I’d hardly call that “accepting the result of an election.”


I see no real problem with any of this. 

We don't have to collectively pretend we don't know the context behind these past "illegitimate" complaints. Clinton was drawing attention to the fact that the Russians provided substantial assistance to the Trump 2016 campaign, and perhaps to the fact that she won the popular vote. Abrams was referring to Kemp's voter suppression efforts, including racism in allocation of resources ... something that absolutely needs more attention by any means IMO. Sanders was mad about the DNC gaming the 2016 primary to consolidate support for Clinton early. We don't have to pretend that context doesn't exist and that we have no idea why they were saying the things they were saying. To my knowledge not one of them has suggested that any election results should be invalidated and reversed. Here is how Abrams put it:

“There’s a lot that’s been made of the fact that I did not concede my election,” she said. “But I never denied the legal sufficiency of that election, and that’s the difference between me and Trump. He refuses to acknowledge the legal sufficiency or threatens not to, but my point is that the laws are wrong. We have to fix those laws because as long as we have eligible American citizens who cannot cast a ballot, then the game is rigged.”


(this btw is the only person here who I think was even marginally off base- she should have conceded IMO, as it would have had little to no impact on her getting her message out)

You of course are welcome to think that what these politicians did somehow also constitutes a serious attack on democracy, even though it's a pretty standard tactic that has been employed by opposition party since at least Bill Clinton, who was called illegitimate because he won a three-way election and only garnered 43% of the vote in 1992. For W it was the fact that he didn't win the popular vote in 2000. For Obama it was birtherism, which was dangerous but for reasons unrelated to whether it was an attack on democracy.

With the exception of birtherism, this is pretty standard stuff, and IMO does not belong in a conversation about what Trump and the GOP have been doing since November 2020.  That should stand alone, lumping it in with fairly reasonable gripes just waters it down.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

lazyike

Footballguy
Hillary once again, speaking on the Trevor Noah show in July 2020:

‘In this case, it’s a continuation of the cover-up,’ she said. ‘Because the one thing that Trump is fearful of, when it comes to his being president, is that finally we will see how illegitimate his victory actually was.
Once she conceded and the election was certified who cares. Nobody stormed the capital.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

ekbeats

Footballguy
I see no real problem with any of this. 

We don't have to collectively pretend we don't know the context behind these past "illegitimate" complaints. Clinton was drawing attention to the fact that the Russians provided substantial assistance to the Trump 2016 campaign, and perhaps to the fact that she won the popular vote. Abrams was referring to Kemp's voter suppression efforts, including racism in allocation of resources ... something that absolutely needs more attention by any means IMO. Sanders was mad about the DNC gaming the 2016 primary to consolidate support for Clinton early. We don't have to pretend that context doesn't exist and that we have no idea why they were saying the things they were saying. To my knowledge not one of them has suggested that any election results should be invalidated and reversed. Here is how Abrams put it:
Hillary’s campaign manager John Podesta supported a push by some members of the Electoral College to receive an intelligence briefing ahead of their formal vote. That is most certainly suggesting that the result be invalidated and reversed.

https://www.npr.org/2016/12/12/505286051/is-hillary-clinton-trying-to-question-the-legitimacy-of-donald-trump-winning

 
Last edited by a moderator:

BladeRunner

Footballguy
Once she conceded and the lection certified who cares. Nobody was listening.


But the point is she was sewing discord and fomenting instability and basically pushing THE SAME NARRATIVE  as Trump.  This is ain't some Joe on the street. This was another POTUS candidate.  :shrug:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hillary’s campaign manager John Podesta supported a push by some members of the Electoral College to receive an intelligence briefing ahead of their formal vote.

https://www.npr.org/2016/12/12/505286051/is-hillary-clinton-trying-to-question-the-legitimacy-of-donald-trump-winning


If "John Podesta once said that some members of the EC should get an intelligence briefing before they cast their votes" is the closest you can come to supporting the claim that there's been bipartisan attacks on American democracy, I think we can say that the attacks on American democracy have been largely coming from one side.

 

lazyike

Footballguy
But the point is she was sewing discord and fomenting instability and basically pushing THE SAME NARRATIVE  as Trump.  This is ain't some Joe on the street. This was another POTUS candidate.  :shrug:
Fair but someone like me who follows politics closely didn't even know. She shouldn't have but the concession was key. If Trump have conceded and the election certified I couldn care less what Trump was saying afterwards. Why did she say he was illegitimate....election fraud? (FYI I didn't vote for Hillary or Trump in 2016)

 
Last edited by a moderator:
But the point is she was sewing discord and fomenting instability and basically pushing THE SAME NARRATIVE  as Trump.  This is ain't some Joe on the street. This was another POTUS candidate.  :shrug:


If she was sewing discord and fomenting instability, she didn't do a very good job of it. I don't recall a single incident of violence or unlawful action in support of her July 2020 comments to Trevor Noah.

Y'all are really going out of your way to avoid acknowledging a fairly obvious truth- that 99.999% of the efforts to undermine American democracy in recent years have come from Trump and the GOP.  

 
The absence of "Donald Trump lost the election, he should have conceded, and he should be barred from ever running for office again" is noted and the silence is deafening. That's what I was referring to with "whataboutism", and why it's an unserious response to the actual problem. And it's a serious, serious problem for our country. 

Can you respond to the actual issue of Trump not conceding without bringing up "but this other thing that the other side did", and if you can't, maybe think about why that is. 

 

ekbeats

Footballguy
If "John Podesta once said that some members of the EC should get an intelligence briefing before they cast their votes" is the closest you can come to supporting the claim that there's been bipartisan attacks on American democracy, I think we can say that the attacks on American democracy have been largely coming from one side.
Don’t put words in my mouth.  I never said that there’s been bipartisan attacks on American democracy.  Not once.

 

ekbeats

Footballguy
The absence of "Donald Trump lost the election, he should have conceded, and he should be barred from ever running for office again" is noted and the silence is deafening. That's what I was referring to with "whataboutism", and why it's an unserious response to the actual problem. And it's a serious, serious problem for our country. 

Can you respond to the actual issue of Trump not conceding without bringing up "but this other thing that the other side did", and if you can't, maybe think about why that is. 
No, the actual issue as you outlined it, and what I was responding to, was “accepting the results of elections is the foundation of democracy.”  You and Toby then moved the goalposts all over the place.

Trump sucks.  What he did was despicable and he should never be elected to any office again.  I’ve said that many times in here.

 
No, the actual issue as you outlined it, and what I was responding to, was “accepting the results of elections is the foundation of democracy.”  You and Toby then moved the goalposts all over the place.

Trump sucks.  What he did was despicable and he should never be elected to any office again.  I’ve said that many times in here.
In kind, I will readily acknowledge that Stacey Abrams set a terrible precedent, and also have said that many times on here. I do believe that accepting the results of elections is the foundation of democracy, and therefore she deserves a lot of criticism, which I will be happy to lay on her here. Acknowledging the other person won shouldn't be optional. 

 

lazyike

Footballguy
No, the actual issue as you outlined it, and what I was responding to, was “accepting the results of elections is the foundation of democracy.”  You and Toby then moved the goalposts all over the place.

Trump sucks.  What he did was despicable and he should never be elected to any office again.  I’ve said that many times in here.
You are making a fair point but recall the reason I claimed  our Republic was threatened was because a peaceful transfer of power didn’t occur. Why? Because Trump refused to concede which resulted in the storming of the capital by his angry mob. 

 

lazyike

Footballguy
Let’s just say the last 24 hours have not been very pretty for Team Trump.

-McCarthy and McConnell Wanted ‘Son of a B*tch’ Trump Out of Politics After Jan. 6 Riot, Book Says  https://www.thedailybeast.com/mccarthy-and-mcconnell-wanted-son-of-a-btch-trump-out-of-politics-after-jan-6-riot-report-says

-Alex Jones, the right-wing chief of InfoWars, the conspiracy news outlet that filed for bankruptcy earlier this week, said in a statement through his lawyer that he had formally raised his hand to signal “his desire to speak to federal prosecutors about Jan. 6.” As part of a deal Jones is seeking, however, he has requested immunity from prosecution, his lawyer told The New York Times. 
 

-McCarthy denies he was going to ask President Trump to resign.

AND THEN later today

-https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/audio-contradicts-mccarthy-s-denial-that-he-said-he-would-recommend-that-trump-resign-138276933865

Apparently there is a lot more to come and the Jan 6th committee has much more and have known about this audio all along.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

rockaction

Footballguy
Won't he just holler that these guys are "losers"? The people eat that stuff up, apparently. How does this damage Trump? 

 

lazyike

Footballguy
Won't he just holler that these guys are "losers"? The people eat that stuff up, apparently. How does this damage Trump? 
Not too damaging to Trump although when the GOP leaders feel it looks so bad for Trump he should just resign it has to be a little disconcerting. I am sure Trump can spin it for the few of his followers who have heard this and will accept any explanation no matter how lousy. But I think it looks worse for the entire GOP except Cheney and Kinzinger including the hardcore GOP electorate.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

rockaction

Footballguy
when the GOP leaders feel it looks so bad for Trump he should just resign it has to be a little disconcerting
One would think, but he's pretty much gone above their heads and to the people for all of his candidacy and presidency. Aside from the justices. 

But I think it looks worse for the entire GOP accept Cheney and Kinzinger including the hardcore GOP electorate.
Yeah, I agree with you. It looks horrible for the GOP that they don't have the wherewithal to stick up to him. 

 

dkp993

Footballguy
One would think, but he's pretty much gone above their heads and to the people for all of his candidacy and presidency. Aside from the justices. 

Yeah, I agree with you. It looks horrible for the GOP that they don't have the wherewithal to stick up to him. 
The GOP’s lack of backbone has been on full display for 6 years now.  Nothing changes, nothing will. 

 

lazyike

Footballguy
The GOP’s lack of backbone has been on full display for 6 years now.  Nothing changes, nothing will. 
 Beyond the fact that McCarthy will do anything to be Speaker of the House, is a bald faced liar, what happened after this conversation with Republican leaders Cheney, Scalise and Emmer? Did McCarthy find out that even though Trump did not deserve to be President that the majority of the members of the House GOP caucus would stand behind Trump anyway? How betrayed does Liz Cheney feel after McCarthy threw her under the bus? I would love to hear audio of more conversations with the treasonous remaining Trump loving House members who got McCarthy to change his tune. Yes I am an Independent now but I can’t see myself voting for any rat that Republicans would stand behind and support anytime soon.

 

Desert_Power

Footballguy
Let’s just say the last 24 hours have not been very pretty for Team Trump.

-McCarthy and McConnell Wanted ‘Son of a B*tch’ Trump Out of Politics After Jan. 6 Riot, Book Says  https://www.thedailybeast.com/mccarthy-and-mcconnell-wanted-son-of-a-btch-trump-out-of-politics-after-jan-6-riot-report-says

-Alex Jones, the right-wing chief of InfoWars, the conspiracy news outlet that filed for bankruptcy earlier this week, said in a statement through his lawyer that he had formally raised his hand to signal “his desire to speak to federal prosecutors about Jan. 6.” As part of a deal Jones is seeking, however, he has requested immunity from prosecution, his lawyer told The New York Times. 
 

-McCarthy denies he was going to ask President Trump to resign.

AND THEN later today

-https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/audio-contradicts-mccarthy-s-denial-that-he-said-he-would-recommend-that-trump-resign-138276933865

Apparently there is a lot more to come and the Jan 6th committee has much more and have known about this audio all along.
None of it will matter one bit.

 

timschochet

Footballguy
For alone time now, the pro-MAGA wing of Congress has been hinting that they would prefer a different speaker than McCarthy. I wonder if, after November, folks like Marjorie Taylor Greene will use this story to try to oust him in favor of somebody like Jim Jordan. Wouldn’t surprise me. 

 

lazyike

Footballguy
For alone time now, the pro-MAGA wing of Congress has been hinting that they would prefer a different speaker than McCarthy. I wonder if, after November, folks like Marjorie Taylor Greene will use this story to try to oust him in favor of somebody like Jim Jordan. Wouldn’t surprise me. 
Yes that was the first name that comes to mind for me as well. (Jordan)

 

squistion

Footballguy
 Beyond the fact that McCarthy will do anything to be Speaker of the House, is a bald faced liar, what happened after this conversation with Republican leaders Cheney, Scalise and Emmer? Did McCarthy find out that even though Trump did not deserve to be President that the majority of the members of the House GOP caucus would stand behind Trump anyway? How betrayed does Liz Cheney feel after McCarthy threw her under the bus? I would love to hear audio of more conversations with the treasonous remaining Trump loving House members who got McCarthy to change his tune. Yes I am an Independent now but I can’t see myself voting for any rat that Republicans would stand behind and support anytime soon.


Adam Schiff @AdamSchiff 18m

Anyone in Congress who has dealt with Kevin McCarthy has a story about him lying to them. It’s who he is. 

Here’s mine:  

https://twitter.com/AdamSchiff/status/1517516333763764224 (video at link)

 

GordonGekko

Footballguy
In kind, I will readily acknowledge that Stacey Abrams set a terrible precedent, and also have said that many times on here. I do believe that accepting the results of elections is the foundation of democracy, and therefore she deserves a lot of criticism, which I will be happy to lay on her here. Acknowledging the other person won shouldn't be optional. 


Did she?

When she ran for Governor of Georgia, her opposition, Brian Kemp, was the then sitting Secretary Of State.

The person who decides how elections should be processed, reviewed and managed is also a candidate? That's a more than fair reason for Abrams to doubt the results of that election. But she didn't choose that as the narrative. She chose the identity politics path instead (when the logistical/structural argument was more sound and would have more impact on future elections) because it would weaponize her fund raising capability and so she  could shock market with not uncommon radical leftist "victim" virtue signaling.

Abrams had every right to question her first run for Governor. How she did it sucked. She chose to monetize it.

In the same way, Trump had every right to question the 2020 election results. Something was clearly wrong. ON BOTH SIDES. I'm not going to absolve the GOP and the Trump regime from doing some home cooking. But Trump wasn't wrong in that the establishment Democrats were doing everything possible to ensure the 2020 general cycle was not a free and fair election. But how he ended up doing it sucked. J6 was tragic and idiotic. It did not serve the greater good of the American people. And he chose to monetize it.

The problem with many of the radical leftists here in the PSF is they cannot separate the issue that just because Trump might be wrong doesn't remove the reality that he might actually have a point. Some major critical points that should be explored and investigated, not for his sake, but the sake of the entire Republic and it's future.

Abrams was wrong, she actually went to the NY Times and said, "I Won", but it doesn't mean she didn't have a point.

If I was Trump, I wouldn't concede either. Then again I wouldn't engage in what he did in J6 because it was toxic and stupid. I certainly wouldn't try to run a grifter fund raising routine off of it.

And if I was Abrams, I also would not have conceded. Brian Kemp cannot be both the sitting Secretary Of State of Georgia and oversee the election under which he is a candidate. I'm a hard line Conservative, but I'm no tribalist, and that's also unacceptable. Not for Abrams, but again, unacceptable for the entire Republic. But then again I wouldn't have done what Abrams did and played the intersectional victim card and cashed out over a 100 million dollars in fundraising out of it.

Some of you radical leftists might find Trump totally pathetic and anyone who voted for him totally pathetic. You know what I find pathetic? I'm a hard line Conservative and there are endless of gaggles of radical leftists in the PSF and I'm the ONLY ONE who has brought up the conflict of interest of Brian Kemp as then SOS and also simultaneously a gubernatorial candidate in the same state. The radical leftists here don't actually know the Georgia battleground. Nearly all just blindly repeat the shock marketing click bait outrage culture memes they are getting from Big Social Media. I'm also the ONLY ONE who pointed out when Trump called Kemp, while many radical leftists here were calling for Trump's head, that Trump asked Kemp to use his emergency powers as Governor to override then SOS Brad Raffensperger. That's within the bounds of the actual Georgia State Constitution. Even if you want to nail Trump for what's unethical ( it was unethical, I wouldn't have made that phone call, that phone call was idiotic), it doesn't make it illegal as most of the activist complicit left leaning Big Social Media was claiming. And I'm the ONLY ONE who pointed out Georgia SOS Brad Raffenspeger did not adhere to actual Georgia election guidelines for a "risk limiting audit" of the election. I pointed out that the creator of the RLA, Philip Stark, openly denounced what Raffensperger was doing because it was a desperate move to save his own job after taking massive fire for the logistical failures of the Dominion Voting Systems roll out in the primaries.

That Trump should not have done what he did on J6 is not a grand sweeping catch all to change the reality that any GOP candidate, even one not named Trump, should have cause to question the 2020 election cycle.

There are a lot of low information voters here in the PSF, but as I always say, it's their free speech. I'm not here to rob anyone of free speech, I'm actually one of the biggest proponents of the principles of actual free speech in the FBG forums. But the radical left can't just skirt through the actual principles of law and make up public policy and avoid contextual complexity because they want to burn The Big Cheeto.

Trust me, I'm more weary of Trump than many of you radical leftists. I'm not the only Conservative and/or Republican to feel that way. But the truth is many of you radical leftists aren't really that truly weary of Trump. It's more of "I Hate You For Not Leaving Me!"  If you didn't have Trump as a ramp on point to attack all Conservatives and the GOP,  you'd have nothing else. If Trump walked up to a camera today and said he was leaving politics forever and never running for POTUS again, I don't think many of you zealots would actually know what to do next.

All some of you have is reckless hate against Republicans in defense of your "tribe" And if the center point of that hate is no longer available, then what exactly do some of you have left?

Donald Trump is a 4th rate failed reality TV star, a narcissist, a grifter and he's actually an idiot most of the time. But just because he's wrong about many things doesn't mean he is removed from the ability to actually having a point worth considering on a broad scale. The Democratic Party and the radical leftists here need to give the American people something more than "Not Trump"

Donald Trump will not save this Republic. But neither will the reckless hate of the radical left. Think about that. I mean actually sit down and face that and ask yourself if unrelenting TDS is doing anything for the greater good of this Republic.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Amused to Death

Footballguy
Donald Trump is a 4th rate failed reality TV star, a narcissist, a grifter and he's actually an idiot most of the time. But just because he's wrong about many things doesn't mean he is removed from the ability to actually having a point worth considering on a broad scale. The Democratic Party and the radical leftists here need to give the American people something more than "Not Trump"

Donald Trump will not save this Republic. But neither will the reckless hate of the radical left. Think about that. I mean actually sit down and face that and ask yourself if unrelenting TDS is doing anything for the greater good of this Republic.
When the GOP gives me another option, I'll certainly consider them over the Dem candidate. I have voted GOP almost as much as I've voted Dem. But if Trump is the GOP candidate, I will certainly vote "not Trump". 

GOP, give me an alternative.

 

The Commish

Footballguy
Guys....optics don't matter any more.  That ship has sailed.  I have NO IDEA why people pay attention to any of the words coming out of these politicians' mouths.  They don't matter.  McCarthy and McConnell can say they wanted Trump out all the want.  It's bull####.  Their actions tell a completely different story.

 

Amused to Death

Footballguy
Guys....optics don't matter any more.  That ship has sailed.  I have NO IDEA why people pay attention to any of the words coming out of these politicians' mouths.  They don't matter.  McCarthy and McConnell can say they wanted Trump out all the want.  It's bull####.  Their actions tell a completely different story.
I believe he (McCarthy) felt that way at the time. But then he was called into the principal's office and begged forgiveness. We all saw it, when he humbly went to meet with the leader and returned with a different tone. Suddenly all was well again, and Cheney & Kinziner were thrown under the proverbial bus.

 

The General

Footballguy
Guys....optics don't matter any more.  That ship has sailed.  I have NO IDEA why people pay attention to any of the words coming out of these politicians' mouths.  They don't matter.  McCarthy and McConnell can say they wanted Trump out all the want.  It's bull####.  Their actions tell a completely different story.
This could have been leaked by Trump :lol:  he is loving this.

 

rockaction

Footballguy
This could have been leaked by Trump :lol:  he is loving this.
You sure? I know it probably makes him feel powerful, but the public should never see how the sausage is made. That two top-ranking guys wanted him out can't be good for confidence among Republicans. In fact, probably half of the Republicans on this board seem sick of him for this very reason. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:

dkp993

Footballguy
You sure? I know it probably makes him feel powerful, but the public should never see how the sausage is made. That two top-ranking guys wanted him out can't be good for confidence among Republicans. In fact, probably half of the Republicans on this board seem sick of him for this very reason. 
Yet still nothing happens and he will likely win the nom in ‘24.  It’s no different then when he was running or in office and there were habitual reports of how most in congress didn’t like him or what him leading the party.  Yet they ALWAYS fall in line like good little sheep.  Honestly it’s part of the strength of the GOP party nowadays, while the Dems fights spill out and they’ll vote against each other that almost never happens on the GOP side (minus this most recent SCOTUS vote).  

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Yet they ALWAYS fall in line like good little sheep
That's because their constituents loved him. I don't see that same love anymore, and if the constituents change their mind, he's done. I see enough Republicans on this board who are genuinely sick of the guy not to doubt them when they say they'd rather see somebody else. The question is how does the populace feel about it, not just how guys who are on message boards (and have all the advantages that entails) feel about it. 

 

dkp993

Footballguy
That's because their constituents loved him. I don't see that same love anymore, and if the constituents change their mind, he's done. I see enough Republicans on this board who are genuinely sick of the guy not to doubt them when they say they'd rather see somebody else. The question is how does the populace feel about it, not just how guys who are on message boards (and have all the advantages that entails) feel about it. 
Sure, and I get that I’m taking the pessimistic viewpoint here, but I just can’t help it as all signs point to pessimism. Regarding your point about the constituents though, just like here, they will vote Trump over anything the Dems have to offer regardless of how they feel for him. So his power is still very real. 

 

IvanKaramazov

Footballguy
That's because their constituents loved him. I don't see that same love anymore, and if the constituents change their mind, he's done. I see enough Republicans on this board who are genuinely sick of the guy not to doubt them when they say they'd rather see somebody else. The question is how does the populace feel about it, not just how guys who are on message boards (and have all the advantages that entails) feel about it. 
I was very wrong about Trump in 2016 -- I thought he mainly won that primary because all the normal Republicans were dividing up their votes, when the reality is that Trump somehow intuitively divined a bottom-up change in mood among the GOP base that I was totally oblivious to -- so maybe I'm also wrong about him now.  But I get the sense from afar that you're probably right.  

Republican politicians have definitely realized that their base wants a Trump-like figure who fights for them on cultural issues and doesn't get distracted by minor sideshows like global geopolitics and trivialities like that.  That's why DeSantis probably feels like he won the lottery having Disney -- arguably the most hated company in right-of-center circles except maybe for Twitter or the NYT -- jump into the ring with him for absolutely no reason to pick a fight that it had very little chance of ever winning.  He knows how this sort of thing plays.  And it's not like it's just him.  Every Republican who is positioning themselves for 2024 run seems to be following a similar playbook. 

My guess is that a lot of Republican primary voters will publicly thank Trump for his service, invoke the name "Trump" in primary debates the way that they used to talk about Reagan when guys like you and me were younger, but look for somebody who they know is more competent and less embarrassing.  They'll have options to choose from in the primaries.  The sooner that MAGA base coalesces around a single standard-bearer the less likely it is that Trump divides and conquers.  Although I'm not sure the divide-and-conquer strategy would even work if he's not running against the Jeb!s and Rubios of the world.  

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Anyone know where the “leaked” audio came from?
This was my first thought also. Who exactly leaked this? Couldn't have been McConnell or McCarthy. One person on Twitter quipped that it was a family tradition for a Cheney to shoot somebody in the face. 

That's what it reeks of to me, too. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:

The Commish

Footballguy
That's because their constituents loved him. I don't see that same love anymore, and if the constituents change their mind, he's done. I see enough Republicans on this board who are genuinely sick of the guy not to doubt them when they say they'd rather see somebody else. The question is how does the populace feel about it, not just how guys who are on message boards (and have all the advantages that entails) feel about it. 
I can't see a SINGLE person who's voted for Trump twice now voting ANYTHING other than GOP.  They simply don't care who's on the ballot as long as it's not a Dem.  This is the reality we need to be dealing with when we hit what is currently established as "the bottom".  

 

rockaction

Footballguy
I can't see a SINGLE person who's voted for Trump twice now voting ANYTHING other than GOP.  They simply don't care who's on the ballot as long as it's not a Dem.  This is the reality we need to be dealing with when we hit what is currently established as "the bottom".  
I agree. I'm talking about the pressure from his own party not to run, and if so, the primary he'll face. Lots can happen between now and 2023. 

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top