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Media Silence About Hip Hop, Five Percenters, Farrakhan, and Anti-Semitism. Where Are You, Wu? Plus, Some Personal Musings (1 Viewer)

Maybe this will pick up steam but i think the partial answer to your question is visible in this thread.  Traditionally the consumer of mainstream media is middle class white people.  Middle class white people have not heard of this person....
I doubt this will pick up any more steam than it already has. I believe that Nick Cannon's comments were picked up by mainstream media and I think he was fired from at least one of his jobs as a result.

Jay Electronica simply isn't that well known. Yes he is Grammy nominated but mainstream rap fans aren't going to know who his. By mainstream rap fans I mean those who get most of their rap from the radio. The album he was nominated for didn't have ANY radio singles. There are no "bangers" or up tempo cuts on the album so it's not going to get any play in the clubs or strip clubs 

 
I literally have never understood things like celebrity endorsements, reality TV shows with celebrities, etc.  I could not care less about stars.  I watch sports (love them) but I don't give a #### what car LeBron drives or what cereal Tiger eats.  I watch movies but same things with the actors.  Musicians, politicians, rich people.  Why the #### should I care what these people have to say or what they do?  The vast majority of them wouldn't pee on me if I was on fire and I'm supposed to value what they have to say?

/old man rant
yea, it's because, they as a movie star, they somehow know more than you about pretty much everything.  notice they all have a cause so they can show they are deep thinkers & really really care?  I would value AAA's opinion(even though I'm right of Rush Limbaugh) over any dribble coming out of most of a star's or athlete's mouth. 

 
That wasn't serious.

My OP was, though. Why on earth does hate from one quarter get a free pass like this? If this were a white country star, the media would be all over it and the city of Nashville would have issued a formal apology to the ADL.
And God help us all if a white lady decides to start selling burritos.

 
Dont care and wont care until the day returns when i am confident that people are minding their own business at least as well as that of others, meaning not for the remainder of my allotted time. Suckers, keep suckin'...

 
Suckers, keep suckin'...
I get why you might say that, but this has nothing to do with your theory about late-stage capitalism or political "suckerism." This is not an issue generated by right-wing media. This is me, noting the album, noting the nomination, noting the content. This was barely picked up by the media, hence my lament upon hearing about one lonely DJ (Paul Rosenberg?) wondering aloud why this is allowed to go on in the hip-hop world.

 
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Somehow I don't think that "minding one's own business well" has any necessary mechanism that prevents the eradication of the "other," actually. Minding one's own business isn't good enough when there are busybodies trying damn hard to trample on the rights of others to exist freely. Only the simple think "not my problem until everybody has their own house in order," because autonomy doesn't really exist in the world when there are others disrespecting the freedom of movement or settling down of a people.

In the course of history, from before we were born until and up to including now, calls for either the displacement or eradication of a particular people, the Jews, have been very prevalent, accepted at times, excused at others, all in the name of minding one's own business. The Jews have always been subjected to this odious ####, regardless of the corner from which it comes.  

There is no excuse for this sort of stuff anymore. High time it ended. This is neither suckerism nor the musings of a busybody. This is a very distinct and easily identifiable phenomenon, tried and true, used and abused over and over against a people that have never deserved it. Call it what it is. It is not for suckers. Calling it that is a theory in search of validation rather than a meaningful response to the problem at hand. 

 
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Sometimes somebody tells me about something I've never heard of and urges me to be outraged about it, and I consider it a helpful service. The first time I ever read about the Chinese government's treatment of the Uyghurs falls into that category. Just because I've never heard of something before doesn't mean I shouldn't be outranged about it.

But the lyrics to pop music won't usually fall into that category. (Are we all Tipper Gore now?)

In any case, there's something I've been wondering about. The guys mentioned in the OP have won some Grammys even though nobody's ever heard of them, right? Pop music is so decentralized now. When I came of age, everybody knew all the Top 40 stuff. There was a shared musical universe, a common knowledge of hip tunes. Does that not exist anymore? Or am I just old?

The best musician alive, IMO, is Jacob Collier. He's won a bunch of Grammys, but so far not a single person I've told about him had previously heard of him (including some musicians, and including some people under 30). Are any pop musicians truly popular among a very wide audience anymore?

 
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I get why you might say that, but this has nothing to do with your theory about late-stage capitalism or political "suckerism." This is not an issue generated by right-wing media. This is me, noting the album, noting the nomination, noting the content. This was barely picked up by the media, hence my lament upon hearing about one lonely DJ (Paul Rosenberg?) wondering aloud why this is allowed to go on in the hip-hop world.
While I understand your broader point about the double standard, and I don’t fundamentally disagree, I do think the reason this hasn’t picked up more steam or gotten more pub is because both people are relatively unknown.  They’re “minor” celebrities in the zeitgeist.  Had it been a Drake or Jay Z or someone of that ilk I do believe it would garner the attention you’re wonder why it’s not getting.  

 
Are any pop musicians truly popular among a very wide audience anymore?
Some, but it's generational and they're on TikTok, having moved there from SoundCloud. If SoundCloud doesn't sound familiar, chances are you're out of the demographic where there is still a shared musical culture. But your broader point is correct. Things are utterly fragmented these days, and we have no cultural capital or cultural literacy to which we can even aspire. 

But the lyrics to pop music won't usually fall into that category. (Are we all Tipper Gore now?)
I'm not really talking about the lyrics to obscure pop music. I'm talking about Jay Electronica, and his mentor and financier, Jay-Z, being Five Percenters and sympathetic to the odious Nation Of Islam. Jay-Z is a billionaire that helped Brooklyn claim eminent domain over the objections of its older residents so it could build the Barclays Center. His sociopolitical views are important in that he becomes a financier and supporter of certain causes, especially when he acts in a manner such that his capital and political clout become publicly important. There should be every bit of a kerfuffle when an avid proponent billionaire that acts to acquire public lands and uses government mechanisms of transfer of those lands, supports, endorses, and appears on a man's album that repeats Farrakhan's nonsense, especially when that land is traditionally Jewish land. That nonsense comes to bear politically, eventually, and Jay-Z announces it in his lyrics. 

The Story of O.J. and the album 4:44 has instructive, borderline anti-Semitic tracks that I've started a topic on in the PSF before w/r/t to Grammy nominations and wins. "Did Jay-Z Just Win a Grammy For An Anti-Semitic Track?" asked I back when 4:44 came out. Black anti-Semitism among those with political power is always something to watch. We are not all Tipper Gores. What happened in BKNY is instructive. 

 
While I understand your broader point about the double standard, and I don’t fundamentally disagree, I do think the reason this hasn’t picked up more steam or gotten more pub is because both people are relatively unknown.  They’re “minor” celebrities in the zeitgeist.  Had it been a Drake or Jay Z or someone of that ilk I do believe it would garner the attention you’re wonder why it’s not getting.  
Wow, I was just writing about Jay-Z when you posted this. Read my post and see my former thread from 2019, watching this closely back then. Jay Z appears all over the album, financed it, and runs Jay Electronica's label. I don't see how much more intimately involved one need be. 

 
Wow, I was just writing about Jay-Z when you posted this. Read my post and see my former thread from 2019, watching this closely back then. Jay Z appears all over the album, financed it, and runs Jay Electronica's label. I don't see how much more intimately involved one need be. 
Interesting. Didn’t know any of that.  But that’s exactly my point, the overwhelming majority of people wouldn’t know that either.  So it gets no attention   

But ultimately that circles back around to your point too, why isn’t someone pick up that story and telling the larger public about it.  It’s a valid argument IMO.  

 
rockaction said:
Jay Electronica was nominated for a Grammy this year. That nobody has heard of him just means you're old and white, nothing else. It's not the example that's the problem. It's...it's you.

And Nick Cannon should be known. If he isn't, you need to catch up on pop culture a bit. Again, not the example, but you.
I love the "I don't know who that is, so he must be obscure, and it doesn't matter" response.  These people are pretty big in pop culture right now, and all that's being pointed out is the double standard, which is obvious.  It's almost as if anti-Semitism is acceptable to a certain portion of our society..... 🤔

 
Somehow I don't think that "minding one's own business well" has any necessary mechanism that prevents the eradication of the "other," actually. Minding one's own business isn't good enough when there are busybodies trying damn hard to trample on the rights of others to exist freely. Only the simple think "not my problem until everybody has their own house in order," because autonomy doesn't really exist in the world when there are others disrespecting the freedom of movement or settling down of a people.

In the course of history, from before we were born until and up to including now, calls for either the displacement or eradication of a particular people, the Jews, have been very prevalent, accepted at times, excused at others, all in the name of minding one's own business. The Jews have always been subjected to this odious ####, regardless of the corner from which it comes.  

There is no excuse for this sort of stuff anymore. High time it ended. This is neither suckerism nor the musings of a busybody. This is a very distinct and easily identifiable phenomenon, tried and true, used and abused over and over against a people that have never deserved it. Call it what it is. It is not for suckers. Calling it that is a theory in search of validation rather than a meaningful response to the problem at hand. 


The considered response to this should be either zero (or another round of "deck chairs on the Titanic") or 40,000 words. Against better advice, i'll try to middle it.

You're (collective) losing your basis to make claims. The more anyone plugs into Suckerdome, the more compelling it becomes and the less obvious it becomes that it's all a construct. I'm sure there are loads of emotionally compelling situations which arise during & from ComicCons, but what people do in a world created to get worked up over junk commerce must be considered within that limited context (i'm reminded of this ol' Letterman bit) -. I'm sure lives have been ruined during the pursuit of a great sneaker collection, a WSOP title or the perfect orgasm, but they cant be considered tragic in a world where 40,000 people die each day from the simple inability to sustain life. For all my desire to be fair, i'm going to devalue the opinions of wrestlers in uniform.

I'm not going to flog my same old thing, but i'm going to flog my same old thing. Fitness, fitness, fitness - we've got watches & talking walls monitoring our physical fitness. Yet we dont even know what emotional fitness is. We stroll out onto the field of life, crouch under center & start barking numbers like we've seen on TV and receive the snap without ever having read a playbook, practiced any of the disciplines intrinsic to the game or sometimes even scanned the basic rules. Yet we expect mercy, pity & a do-over when there are 5 280-pound guys in pads on top of us and are outraged that our fumble was not called a forward pass. We do this time & time again across most of our lives and still see ourselves closer to Tom Brady at it than a fat girl @ Disneyland. You tell me...

 
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This is all really part of larger discussion about how to separate art from politics though, right?  And that's a question I've never personally been able to come up with an easy answer for.  

I mean, it's easy for me to boycott the music of the odious Ted Nugent because I didn't listen to him anyway.  And the racist comments of Jay Electronica or that young country singer who has been in the news don't really outrage me b/c I had never heard their names before their comments broke.

But how am I supposed to feel when I listen to GnR "Lies" and "One in a Million" comes on?  In my dumber teenage years, I tried to convince myself that it was a perfectly realized vehicle for distilling the angry and disaffected feelings of a "small-town white boy," i.e. art.  Now I realize Axl was just an ignorant bigot and it's no wonder Vernon Reid wanted to beat his ###.  Is it OK to enjoy GnR?  Should I skip "One in a Million," even in private?

What about when Professor Griff got booted from Public Enemy for a lot of the same stuff Jay Electronica espouses.  Do I throw away my PE records now?

On the flip side, I can remember a lot of meathead fascists I worked with at various restaurants loving Rage Against the Machine.  I could never quite process how one could profess to love a band whose politics were central to their existence yet abhor their actual beliefs.  Of course, maybe they were just idiots and never realized who "#### you I won't do what you tell me" was directed at.

Sorry to ramble - this was my poor attempt at channeling Rock... 

 
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This is all really part of larger discussion about how to separate art from politics though, right?  And that's a question I've never personally been able to come up with an easy answer for.  

I mean, it's easy for me to boycott the music of the odious Ted Nugent because I didn't listen to him anyway.  And the racist comments of Jay Electronica or that young country singer who has been in the news don't really outrage me b/c I had never heard their names before their comments broke.

But how am I supposed to feel when I listen to GnR "Lies" and "One in a Million" comes on?  In my dumber teenage years, I tried to convince myself that it was a perfectly realized vehicle for distilling the angry and disaffected feelings of a "small-town white boy," i.e. art.  Now I realize Axl was just an ignorant bigot and it's no wonder Vernon Reid wanted to beat his ###.  Is it OK to enjoy GnR?  Should I skip "One in a Million," even in private?

What about when Professor Griff got booted from Public Enemy for a lot of the same stuff Jay Electronica espouses.  Do I throw away my PE records now?

On the flip side, I can remember a lot of meathead fascists I worked with at various restaurants loving Rage Against the Machine.  I could never quite process how one could profess to love a band whose politics were central to their existence yet abhor or their actual beliefs.  Of course, maybe they were just idiots and never realized who "#### you I won't do what you tell me" was directed at.

Sorry to ramble - this was my poor attempt at channeling Rock... 
No sweat about rambling. You channeled the issues better than you think. I can only hope I channel them like that.

Your distinction between what an artist says and what the work says is an important one. How to separate the artist from the art is an age-old question, one that was considered even in antiquity. But this is slightly different. It's close to along the lines of G N' R.

Electronica raps about being a Five Percenter, a Nation Of Islam member, and weaves Farrakhan audio clips into the album itself, much like G N'R espoused its beliefs three decades or so ago. They are not like G N' R in that the clips do not bait Jewish people, but using a person whose group is considered a "hate group," whatever that means, is suspect, especially if his voice winds up in the middle and in the introduction to your latest sound recording as an authoritative voice and role model.

It's tough. The OP reaches for even more than that, though. We continue, in the media and in all walks of life, to give truck to Farrakhan because he speaks to the seemingly oppressed within our society. When a race and culture has been thoroughly degraded and denigrated like American blacks were due to slavery, any uplifting message is key and valued, and Farrakhan provides that in part of his teachings. Where he clearly runs afoul is the hateful rhetoric directed at Jews and whites. How do we separate that out? It proves more controversial and difficult, it seems, than separating out the artist from the art.

Do we need to separate that out? I don't necessarily know the answer. My answer to most things is "Yes, we do." I can separate out Thomas Jefferson's benevolence and greatness out from the fact that he was a slaveholder. I can do that intellectually and spiritually come away with good conscience. We learn from history. Yet Farrakhan has history at his disposal and the quotes being used by the artists, away from their recordings, are his most hateful. And they're creeping into their mainstream recordings, the hateful bits. Not overtly, but enough to get these ears perked up, and I'm not Jewish.

So what to do about that?

That's the question, and I don't think the media has dealt with it fairly. The complexity of the issue is whitewashed with the brush of that which seeks inoffensiveness. That is what I'm really getting at. An honest discussion is not to be had.

 
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This is all really part of larger discussion about how to separate art from politics though, right?  And that's a question I've never personally been able to come up with an easy answer for.  

I mean, it's easy for me to boycott the music of the odious Ted Nugent because I didn't listen to him anyway.  And the racist comments of Jay Electronica or that young country singer who has been in the news don't really outrage me b/c I had never heard their names before their comments broke.

But how am I supposed to feel when I listen to GnR "Lies" and "One in a Million" comes on?  In my dumber teenage years, I tried to convince myself that it was a perfectly realized vehicle for distilling the angry and disaffected feelings of a "small-town white boy," i.e. art.  Now I realize Axl was just an ignorant bigot and it's no wonder Vernon Reid wanted to beat his ###.  Is it OK to enjoy GnR?  Should I skip "One in a Million," even in private?

What about when Professor Griff got booted from Public Enemy for a lot of the same stuff Jay Electronica espouses.  Do I throw away my PE records now?

On the flip side, I can remember a lot of meathead fascists I worked with at various restaurants loving Rage Against the Machine.  I could never quite process how one could profess to love a band whose politics were central to their existence yet abhor or their actual beliefs.  Of course, maybe they were just idiots and never realized who "#### you I won't do what you tell me" was directed at.

Sorry to ramble - this was my poor attempt at channeling Rock... 
These are all good points.  

I think some of it is people aren't really listening to the message, but enjoy the music.  I used to really dig ROTM.  Saw em in concert back in '97 at the Gorge in George.....INSANE show!!  Honestly, I always liked Morello's guitar work the most......I was a kid/young adult back then......things change.

I still listen to ROTM a bit, but it's really not meant for my ears, right?  As I got older and more responsible, I kind of filter things out a bit more........and to clarify what I mean as it pertains to ROTM, Im just not into the militant anti-American stuff.  To me, it really helps nothing.  It only helps create a bigger divide......I mean a little bit of angst or whatever, fine.....but literally the bands name is completely anti-American and every song is about how ####ty our country is.

 
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