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:MERGED: Manning's Legacy Article (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Varmint
- Start date
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
That's an interesting new take on this.
I stopped at
J
Yeah, the only way they can win is by tricking those guys into submission....
J
Yes, there are a ton of threads on that today.JSeems odd that everyone seems to figure them out come playoff time..I stopped at
Yeah, the only way they can win is by tricking those guys into submission....
Unlucky
Phenom
Can we please stop giving QBs credit for wins and losses? Two of the best QBs in the game, Brady and Manning, both lost this weekend. If they are so freaking great, why didn't they win? Oh, I forgot. Football is a team game, with far more players than just the QB. In the future, you are hereby banned from posting the "won-lost" record of a QB, since wins and losses are not solely his responsibility.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
Half the first page is Manning sucks threads.Honestly? This is stupid, in my opinion. You either believe he chokes in the playoffs, or you believe his team has more to do with it than he does, or you believe he's just had a few bad games.I don't think members of any three camps are changing their opinions based on some of the drivel that's been spouted tonight.I think the better team won today. I've thought the Colts' defense has been overrated all year, and again, a good defense would stop the Colts in the playoffs. The Colts offense is designed to take advantage of mistakes by the defense.Minimize mistakes, you minimize Manning. Plain and simple.But hey, I'm one guy with an opinion. If someone else disagrees with me, I'm not going to start *another* thread proclaiming why my theory is correct.Oh, yeah. Go Broncos.
Jimmy James
Footballguy
If you're serious about this, we'd might as well stop keeping stats for any player because none of them are true. They're all influenced by the play of another.This could be the worst post I have seen on a message board.
Keysersoze666
Footballguy
I have an even better idea ...Lets all collectively stop posting whiney tirades on a subject that EVERY single knowledgable fan that frequents this board already knows. Gee, the QB doesn't derserve all the credit all the time. BTW, Rex Grossman's career playoff record is 0-1 and I'm not banned from anything.
BTW, Rex Grossman's career playoff record is 0-1 and I'm not banned from anything.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
If every single knowledgable fan on this board knows that, then logic would dictate that 90% of this board is unknowledgable.I have an even better idea ...
Lets all collectively stop posting whiney tirades on a subject that EVERY single knowledgable fan that frequents this board already knows. Gee, the QB doesn't derserve all the credit all the time.
BTW, Rex Grossman's career playoff record is 0-1 and I'm not banned from anything.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
That flaming straw man keeping you warm over there?
Jimmy James
Footballguy
Are QB wins and losses not stats? You have improperly declared that I used a strawman argument.
Keysersoze666
Footballguy
Hey Spartans, I'm not sure I can argue with your point about the percentage, I'll try harder in the future to just ignore how the big percentage amuses itself.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
Nope, but you decided to take his argument to the absolute extreme (nothing statistical matters), then set that argument on fire.That is your straw man.
Jimmy James
Footballguy
Ah, I see -- you actually just misunderstood my argument. My argument is that someone can misapply any statistic, so the only way to keep someone like our thread starter from being annoyed by them is for statistics not to exist.
Although the article is exactly what I expected after the loss, I am at least glad about one thing it mentioned:I agree that I don't think it was Vandy's fault at all that the Colts lost the game. I am sure most Colts' fans and others will put a new Kicker as the 1st thing on the list of changes for 2006, but that was awful play calling and time management to end up with a game tying FG from 46 yards out.First of all, they don't call a timeout with 2:30 left in the game and Manning couldn't get a play off before the 2 minute warning. They had 3 timeouts left. Sure they can score in a hurry, but really 30 seconds get burned off and they can't even get a play in before the 2 minute warning? They still had 60-70+ yards to go at that point.Second, they don't burn a timeout and what happens on the first play after the 2 minute warning? A sack, woo-hoo, nice use of the timeout to put a good play call in and good protection when Pittsburgh got up 21-3 because of pressure on Manning. Duh. Hey, if they don't mess up on my first of all, maybe the sack doesn't happen and Vandy has a 39 yarder, doesn't press as much for distance and makes it.Third, they don't call a timeout with 1 minute+ on the clock after Wayne's reception to the Steeler's 37. They burn another 30 seconds before getting an 8 yarder to Harrison. Geez, they have 3 timeouts left, why not wait until the games over, I heard that the NFL gives out money for unused timeouts. 
Fourth, you have 30 seconds left and 2 timeouts and you just missed an almost TD to Wayne on 2 and 2. It is now 3rd and 2, and right now Vandy has a 46 yarder. Oh well, let's just try that Wayne in the corner thing again and come closer to an INT than a completion. Man, why not try to get the 1st down. Even if it is a 2 yard run, you have 2 timeouts left, use one and you have another just in case for the FG. Also, you get a 1st down and now, instead of 1 shot at the end zone, you have 3 more before you have to kick a FG. Heck, it would even be a shorter FG.Oh well, I got excited at the end of the game because I was hoping that this year might be a Super Bowl year for Indy and Manning, especially hosting Denver next week who they have owned in the post season. I am not a Colts fan in the least, but since the Redskins were out of it, I usually root for the guys that haven't had success but have gottent to the playoffs a bunch. After watching the end of the game, I felt bad for Vandy because I knew he would get most of the blame when it was an awful job by Manning that sealed their fate.
Fourth, you have 30 seconds left and 2 timeouts and you just missed an almost TD to Wayne on 2 and 2. It is now 3rd and 2, and right now Vandy has a 46 yarder. Oh well, let's just try that Wayne in the corner thing again and come closer to an INT than a completion. Man, why not try to get the 1st down. Even if it is a 2 yard run, you have 2 timeouts left, use one and you have another just in case for the FG. Also, you get a 1st down and now, instead of 1 shot at the end zone, you have 3 more before you have to kick a FG. Heck, it would even be a shorter FG.Oh well, I got excited at the end of the game because I was hoping that this year might be a Super Bowl year for Indy and Manning, especially hosting Denver next week who they have owned in the post season. I am not a Colts fan in the least, but since the Redskins were out of it, I usually root for the guys that haven't had success but have gottent to the playoffs a bunch. After watching the end of the game, I felt bad for Vandy because I knew he would get most of the blame when it was an awful job by Manning that sealed their fate.
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bostonfred
Footballguy
OK, from now on, when discussing Manning choking in the playoffs, we'll name specific things he did wrong. This week:"ONE--> The interception. When Manning threw the (later overturned) game ending interception, he had 180 yards, 1 TD, and that 1 INT. Not great numbers, and he didn't keep his team in the game, but far from a choke. He got bailed out by the overturned interception, and while the Steelers were shellshocked, he led them on a fast TD drive. I give him credit for that - that was a great drive. And maybe that was the right call, I don't know. There's no question he threw a pick, though, and that it was game ending. Still, that in and of itself is not that bad. But after the Colts' D, which had been crushedin time of possession, makes a great three and out stand, TWO--> The four and out with two sacksManning responds by going four and out and turning the ball over inside his own five. Along the way, he was sacked twice, and lobbed another hook shot pass that should never have been thrown. At that point, the game appeared to be over. But wait, the defense bails him out again, and not only gets him the ball back, they get it to him at midfield. THREE--> Failing to get them in field goal rangeManning responds by getting them a handful of yards, then, with two timeouts left and plenty of time on the clock, inexplicably stops trying to advance into field goal range, and takes a low percentage shot at the end zone. He gets stopped with plenty of time on the clock, and ends up giving his kicker a field goal attempt that he can't hit. Do other people deserve blame for this performance? Maybe Vanderjagt, although that was far from a gimme. After a quick TD, the defense generally did a good job in this game, and certainly atoned for their sins in the fourth quarter on back to back drives when they got a key stop to get the ball back and then forced, recovered and returned Bettis' fumble when the game seemed out of hand. Wayne had a phenomenal game. Edge averaged over 4 yards a carry, had five catches and a touchdown. Clark had a 50 yard touchdown reception and deserves all the credit for about 40 yards after the catch.I suppose the offensive line didn't give him much time, but Manning didn't do the team a lot of favors today, either. He was fortunate to end up with the stat line he did, and that errors by Vanderjagt, Bettis and the referees outshadowed his own."Last year: "I think it's possible to see Manning "choking" without necessarily taking glee in it. I do think that Manning is a paper tiger and a regular season champion. I think he's a true artist with the skills he has. But I also think that his skills make him good at beating bad teams, and bad at beating good teams. His brand of football - changing his play at the line of scrimmage based on the defense - is only as good as his ability to read the opposing defense, and that's why he struggles against top defenses. It's certainly what stopped him today. ""Look at the play by play. The first drive ended when Manning threw a 2 yard pass to Pollard on third and four. The second drive ended on a Manning incompletion. The third drive ended on consecutive incompletions to Stokley, who was covered by Troy Brown at the time. He clearly misdiagnosed that as a mismatch. The fourth drive started with a Manning fumble on first down, followed by consecutive incomplete passes. The fifth drive ended on a 2nd and 17 pass to a well covered Dominic Rhodes for -2 yards - Rhodes was blanketed by Bruschi the whole way, so even if Bruschi doesn't strip him, it's still probably a loss or small gain when they need 17. The sixth drive ended with a field goal just before the half, but Manning and the Colts failed to call a timeout and because of it, they ended up kicking a field goal instead of going for it on third and goal from the 5 yard line. The Colts could have taken a shot at going into the locker room with a lead at halftime but had to settle for the field goal instead. The Patriots went three and out on their first possession of the second half, and the Colts had a chance to get some momentum. Instead, Manning's first drive of the second half ended when Manning threw a three yard pass to Stokley on third and four. He then sat on the bench for over 9 minutes, and ended when he threw a pass at Edge's feet, then threw the next pass out of bounds. Sure, he would have been risking an interception by throwing into coverage, but his defense was getting run over. He had to sustain a drive. The next drive, he was down three scores with seven minutes left, but instead of taking his shots downfield, he threw little dink and dunk stuff to Edge and Wayne. Wayne fumbled, then when Manning got the ball back with three minutes left and down by three scores, he started throwing 5-10 yard passes to get a passing touchdown in the closing minutes instead of trying to win the game. "Years past:"Manning's career numbers in the regular season:265 yards, 1.7 TDs, 1 INT (numbers through 2004 only - I didnt redo them this year)Manning's career numbers in the six playoff losses/"chokes":yards/TDs/INTs227/0/0194/1/0137/0/2237/1/4238/0/1290/1/0"There. All that without talking about won/loss record.
Kleck
Footballguy
Not even close. Further, Mike (Unlucky) is one of the most respected members our board has ever had. He rarely speaks in generalities and he's rational in his approach to discussing the hobby way more often than the average fan.That said, I don't entirely agree with him. From my perspective a quarterback has more on his plate that the other guys on the team. I'm sure all 32 starting quarterbacks in the NFL would agree with that statement. The aspect of leadership is important, and they carry that burden.
First rule of responsibility: It's all your fault.
I think Manning screwed up today in his press conference. I'm sure he would readily admit it now after the fact. He's not perfect, and the standard that ignorant fans and media hold them to is insane. Win it all or you suck. That doesn't work for me.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
By the way, is anyone else seeing this Mastercard commercial?All the bloopers of the D-CAF scene, and at the end..."Not being perfect: Priceless".Ouch to releasing that now. Seriously. I hope I'm wrong in some way here, but if that was released after today's game, I have a problem with that.
Fumbleweed
Footballguy
Everyone except Denver. The Colts have beaten the heck out of the Broncos in the playoffs the last few years......Seems odd that everyone seems to figure them out come playoff time..I stopped at
Yeah, the only way they can win is by tricking those guys into submission....
Jimmy James
Footballguy
Let me put it this way: The argument just made to never bring up QB W-L is precisely the argument that anyone would have to also accept when it comes to the head coach being evaluated by W-L record. It's actually even worse for the head coach -- he doesn't even have a direct influence on the game because he plays none of the positions on the field. He is totally at the mercy of others.Strangely, whenever this discussion comes up (and this is hardly the first place I have encountered it), nobody has an objection to giving the coach this sort of statistical yardstick. In fact, most fans have an opinion on whether their coach should be retained or not that is almost solely based on this statistic. Now, somebody else can try to explain to me why this isn't a bad thread.
Jimmy James
Footballguy
FWIW, I was talking about a thread merged into this one about how no QB should have a W-L record kept for him when I said this was a bad thread. I actually rather liked the article you contributed and cannot understand why these two threads were put together out of the many threads on the same general topic.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
My bad, David, that was a kneejerk exaggeration, based on the couple that were up there.My fault.
Jimmy James
Footballguy
Do you guys have the ability to alter thread titles when they're merged? I ask because as a moderator at one board and a user at many others, I have found it makes it a lot easier for people to follow if you can give them a heads up that threads have been merged when it happens. I personally prefer a nice (Merged #xThere are not "many threads". If there were, I would merge them. Glad we're on the same page.
at the front, but even just a M: might be helpful.
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Spartans Rule
Footballguy
I thought you were talking about specific things MANNING did wrong. Why is this in there?On the first sack, Dallas Clark was supposed to be watching Manning's blindside, but stepped up to help stop Polamalu, who was trying to force his way through the line, as Joey Porter ran right behind his back for the easy sack.
Porter also came in untouched on the second sack, although I couldn't figure out on replay where the missed assignment was. Polamalu again came on the blitz which seemed to disrupt Colts.
This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Blame Manning for throwing an interception. Blame him for poor clock management, although I disagree. But don't blame him for being blindsided on protection breakdowns.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Mike Vanderjagt is 65-81, just a hair over 80%, between 40 and 49 yards for his career. He's 62-68, about 91%, between 30 and 39 yards.I don't see the wisdom in trying to move the ball 5-10 yards closer and getting an extra 10% on a field goal try which merely ties the game. Why not shoot for the end zone? Vandy's good 4 out of 5 times from that range. This was the fifth time.
Jimmy James
Footballguy
The problem with that logic is that a 2 yard Edge run and a time out gives Manning 3 more shots at the end zone before they kick. They had about that much time on the clock.
Red Apples
Footballguy
You don't see the wisdom in trying to get closer so your FG is easier, so you can tie the game and send it into overtime in your own stadium?You are the definition of a Manning fan.
cstu
Footballguy
There was plenty of time on the clock for them to get the 1st down and spike the ball, giving them 2 shots at the endzone or possibly moving the kick closer. Throwing the ball in situation where the Steelers knew what was coming was stupid. The Colts only ran the ball one time in the last 27 minutes of the game. That one run? A 3 yard TD by Edge.
Red Apples
Footballguy
Manning not getting any love...
Warsteinner
Footballguy
This article is right on.
Wilbur Wood
Footballguy
First off, I do not HATE Peyton Manning. However, I do have opinions about NFL football. I am in my mid-40's and since season of Super Bowl III, can probably count on one hand the number of NFL playoff games that I have not watched on TV. Several hundred playoff games, lots of terrific QB play --- Namath, Bradshaw, Stabler, Staubach, Montana, Elway, Young, Favre, Brady, Delhomme (?) and several that I am obviously forgetting. Peyton Manning's body of work in the NFL post-season does not put him in the same company as these other QBs. Unfair, perhaps (I did limit this to "post-season" only). Vince Lombardi once said that the one thing that he did not like about the game of football was the position of quarterback -- as the position was of such paramount importance that it somehow served to undermine the concept of the team and that no individual piece is bigger than the whole. Fair point, perhaps Vince went a little over the top to make a point. QB's -- too much credit when they win, too much blame when they lose, but these are the guys that NFL teams throw high 8 figure contracts at (with much of this money guaranteed) so I shed no tears when they are thoroughly borescoped after a loss.A lot has been said on a thread that has now been locked, so I'll limit my comments to a couple of points:#1 "Peyton Manning is clearly the greatest QB in the NFL today and playoff losses are a result of the fact that football is a team game and the Colts' opponents in these games greatly outplayed the entire Colts team and in no way did Manning's individual effort in these losses diminish his stock as the NFL's best QB" - I find it down right comical that virtually any other viewpoint is categorized, in some cases by otherwise intelligent NFL analysts (Wood, Ashcroft), as a "Manning HATE statement". And I use to think that Mets fans had inferiority complexes.#2 IMO, Tom Brady is a better NFL QB than Peyton Manning. There I said it, a statement in the warped view of some that is a "Manning HATE statement". I am a JETS fan, thus I do not like or ever root for the Patriots. Thus, I don't think that I bring a fans' bias to my assessment. I base this on the fact that Brady is as "tough as nails" and consistently brings his "A game" to the field in the playoffs. I do not think that Brady simply tags along for the ride as part of a great team, I think that he has had to perform at the very top of his game to bring home post-season wins. Brady didn't quite have his "A game" versus Denver, yet I still like how Brady played in defeat better than I do how Manning played in defeat vs Pitt. A critical difference that is greatly highlighted in the post-season in which Brady is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Manning is in his ability to hang in the pocket in the presence of a pass rush and make strong, accurate throws. The differential in this important ability was never more evident than this past weekend. Denver brought a ton of pressure against Brady and there were numerous times when Brady exhibited the classic pocket toughness to "hang in" and make a strong, confident, accurate throw down the field, right before he was to get hit. On the other hand, Manning in the face of pressure develops happy feet and makes weak, inaccurate throws in the face of pressure. The difference between the two in this key area has nothing to do with "mobility" or "physical gifts", but rather it is all about "toughness".#3 Here is an excerpt from today, Indianapolis Star by Kravitz (who I guess is just another person who HATES Peyton Manning): "Another big game. Another big stage. Another spectacular flameout, a meltdown of epic proportions. Seen this movie before? There was 41-0 to the Jets in 2003. There was 24-14 in 2004 and 21-3 in 2005, both in New England. And then there was this, the worst of them all, a game Peyton Manning, in particular, may never live down. Even now, the clouds of doubt are gathering around Manning, and the whispers are so loud, they seemed to be artificially enhanced. He can't win the big one. Didn't win them in college. Hasn't won them in the pros. Not the biggest ones."#4 This year everything was set up for the Colts. Peyton Manning is a classic "momentum QB". When everything is breaking right with the well-oiled Colts machine there is no QB on the planet that can match Peyton's stat line. He now has a 3-6 playoff record, and his stat line in those 3 wins was very impressive. However, two of those were in complete blowouts at home and the 3rd against KC was against the worst defense seen in the NFL playoffs since the Bass-led Charger D of the '80's. I would love to see Manning win a big NFL playoff game, on the road (outdoors) in a game in which his team trails in the 4th qtr. This year he could have diffused a lot of his critics without ever having to get close to playing an outdoor, road game. The Colts were clearly the best team in the NFL during the regular season, yet based upon what we saw yesterday I think that in addition to the loss to Pitt, the Colts would not have been able to win vs Denver or New England. Thus, somehow the Manning-led Colts morphed from the best team in the NFL into perhaps the 4th best team in the AFC. #5 Manning's comments regarding the offensive showed a lack of leadership and accountability.#6 As a fan, I am not enamored with Manning's persistent utilizing and fake line calls. I know that it has its moments. However, it puts unnecessary pressure on the line to hold their stances. The false start penalty that negated the Colts 1st half TD was huge.#7 I know that this thread is not about Eli, but I find it interesting that Baby Bro had an extremely ugly post-season debut. Yes, he is young. However, he has quite a bit more NFL experience and more "skills" than Rex Grossman. Yet somehow, Grossman showed me a lot more than Eli did in what was the first post-season game for either young QB.#8 I don't think that I have ever read a more stupid comment than the one that suggested that it is "Manning's strong Christian faith" that causes some to HATE him.#9. Many highly regarded NFL analysts are espousing similar views on Manning today. Not all, but a significant number. Probably none of these folks HATE Peyton Manning. Yet somehow in the twisted world of denial in which the faithful Manning followers reside, they are all "Manning HATERS".
Wilbur Wood
Footballguy
Sorry I didn't see this thread, so I moved my other one over to here:First off, I do not HATE Peyton Manning. However, I do have opinions about NFL football. I am in my mid-40's and since season of Super Bowl III, can probably count on one hand the number of NFL playoff games that I have not watched on TV. Several hundred playoff games, lots of terrific QB play --- Namath, Bradshaw, Stabler, Staubach, Montana, Elway, Young, Favre, Brady, Delhomme (?) and several that I am obviously forgetting. Peyton Manning's body of work in the NFL post-season does not put him in the same company as these other QBs. Unfair, perhaps (I did limit this to "post-season" only). Vince Lombardi once said that the one thing that he did not like about the game of football was the position of quarterback -- as the position was of such paramount importance that it somehow served to undermine the concept of the team and that no individual piece is bigger than the whole. Fair point, perhaps Vince went a little over the top to make a point. QB's -- too much credit when they win, too much blame when they lose, but these are the guys that NFL teams throw high 8 figure contracts at (with much of this money guaranteed) so I shed no tears when they are thoroughly borescoped after a loss.A lot has been said on this thread, so I'll limit my comments to a couple of points:#1 "Peyton Manning is clearly the greatest QB in the NFL today and playoff losses are a result of the fact that football is a team game and the Colts' opponents in these games greatly outplayed the entire Colts team and in no way did Manning's individual effort in these losses diminish his stock as the NFL's best QB" - I find it down right comical that virtually any other viewpoint is categorized, in some cases by otherwise intelligent NFL analysts (Wood, Ashcroft), as a "Manning HATE statement". And I use to think that Mets fans had inferiority complexes.#2 IMO, Tom Brady is a better NFL QB than Peyton Manning. There I said it, a statement in the warped view of some that is a "Manning HATE statement". I am a JETS fan, thus I do not like or ever root for the Patriots. Thus, I don't think that I bring a fans' bias to my assessment. I base this on the fact that Brady is as "tough as nails" and consistently brings his "A game" to the field in the playoffs. I do not think that Brady simply tags along for the ride as part of a great team, I think that he has had to perform at the very top of his game to bring home post-season wins. Brady didn't quite have his "A game" versus Denver, yet I still like how Brady played in defeat better than I do how Manning played in defeat vs Pitt. A critical difference that is greatly highlighted in the post-season in which Brady is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Manning is in his ability to hang in the pocket in the presence of a pass rush and make strong, accurate throws. The differential in this important ability was never more evident than this past weekend. Denver brought a ton of pressure against Brady and there were numerous times when Brady exhibited the classic pocket toughness to "hang in" and make a strong, confident, accurate throw down the field, right before he was to get hit. On the other hand, Manning in the face of pressure develops happy feet and makes weak, inaccurate throws in the face of pressure. The difference between the two in this key area has nothing to do with "mobility" or "physical gifts", but rather it is all about "toughness".#3 Here is an excerpt from today, Indianapolis Star by Kravitz (who I guess is just another person who HATES Peyton Manning): "Another big game. Another big stage. Another spectacular flameout, a meltdown of epic proportions. Seen this movie before? There was 41-0 to the Jets in 2003. There was 24-14 in 2004 and 21-3 in 2005, both in New England. And then there was this, the worst of them all, a game Peyton Manning, in particular, may never live down. Even now, the clouds of doubt are gathering around Manning, and the whispers are so loud, they seemed to be artificially enhanced. He can't win the big one. Didn't win them in college. Hasn't won them in the pros. Not the biggest ones."#4 This year everything was set up for the Colts. Peyton Manning is a classic "momentum QB". When everything is breaking right with the well-oiled Colts machine there is no QB on the planet that can match Peyton's stat line. He now has a 3-6 playoff record, and his stat line in those 3 wins was very impressive. However, two of those were in complete blowouts at home and the 3rd against KC was against the worst defense seen in the NFL playoffs since the Bass-led Charger D of the '80's. I would love to see Manning win a big NFL playoff game, on the road (outdoors) in a game in which his team trails in the 4th qtr. This year he could have diffused a lot of his critics without ever having to get close to playing an outdoor, road game. The Colts were clearly the best team in the NFL during the regular season, yet based upon what we saw yesterday I think that in addition to the loss to Pitt, the Colts would not have been able to win vs Denver or New England. Thus, somehow the Manning-led Colts morphed from the best team in the NFL into perhaps the 4th best team in the AFC. #5 Manning's comments regarding the offensive showed a lack of leadership and accountability.#6 As a fan, I am not enamored with Manning's persistent utilizing and fake line calls. I know that it has its moments. However, it puts unnecessary pressure on the line to hold their stances. The false start penalty that negated the Colts 1st half TD was huge.#7 I know that this thread is not about Eli, but I find it interesting that Baby Bro had an extremely ugly post-season debut. Yes, he is young. However, he has quite a bit more NFL experience and more "skills" than Rex Grossman. Yet somehow, Grossman showed me a lot more than Eli did in what was the first post-season game for either young QB.#8 I don't think that I have ever read a more stupid comment than the one that suggested that it is "Manning's strong Christian faith" that causes some to HATE him.#9. Many highly regarded NFL analysts are espousing similar views on Manning today. Not all, but a significant number. Probably none of these folks HATE Peyton Manning. Yet somehow in the twisted world of denial in which the faithful Manning followers reside, they are all "Manning HATERS".
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nygiants56
Footballguy
not really, its called Tony Dungy's Disease...4-7 lifetime playoff record, one of the worst among active coaches.Indy will quickly realize that TB won a SB the year after they fired Dungy..Seems odd that everyone seems to figure them out come playoff time..I stopped at
Yeah, the only way they can win is by tricking those guys into submission....
hmm..notice a pattern developing?
nygiants56
Footballguy
#1. Manning has never won any championship at any level.#2. he has a lifetime 3-6 playoff record.#3. looks alot like Dan Fouts - i.e., great stats, no BIG WINS.#4. Manning teams up with 2 of the best players in the history of the NFL, at their positions: Edge James, and Marvin Harrison.there is simply NO EXCUSE for him to ALWAYS lose big games.none at all.#5. HE IS NO TOM BRADY you got that right!!he is overrated..great regular season QB, maybe..but one of the worst postseason qb's , ever. isn't he tied with, or close to Danny White for most playoff appearances without playing in a SB?
B Maverick
Footballguy
SD vs Mia wasnt a big win? And you cant count the next week in cinci with frost bitten hands after the 2 games in unbearable heat the week before.Sorry for the hijack
#3. looks alot like Dan Fouts - i.e., great stats, no BIG WINS.
As for manning, i am saddened by the "hate". He is a great QB and maybe someday he will pull a Young and get the monkey off his back. Even then the haters will look at it all and think it took him long enough and one win doesnt fix all the failures. Maybe he will be marino or kelly, maybe someday he will turn into Elway and Young. He is 30 right? still has several good years left.
