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Miami/Minn trade pics........... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter BigTex
- Start date
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
hitmenssharpshooters
Footballguy
I believe the talk is Minn #7 and their second round pick and not #18 for Miami #2. I have heard this in more than one place. Minn is also talking to Cleveland.
ManODaHour
Footballguy
IMO, Edwards is not proven to be worth that much more than the other WR's rated to go in the first round. Therefor, my choice would be to try to get M. Williams with #7 and take Roddy White with #18. They should have two very good starting WR in a couple years and they'd have a better chance at finding that STUD WR they are looking for. These two have a ton of potential. I'd just rather have 2 tries at finding that stud than throwing both pick into one for the "same" type/quality receiver.Granted, this is from a guy who isn't sold on Braylon being that much "better" than M. Williams or others.
Nice misleading thread title. 
Most Vikings fans would be shocked to see the Vikings pull the trigger on a deal like this. I highly doubt that we'd give up a #1 and a #2 to move up, much less both #1's. However, anything could happen, I guess. Heck, the Broncos got the Redskins to give them their first-born for a #25 overall, and Mike Tice is probably on about the same I.Q. level as Daniel Snyder when it comes to off-the-field activities in the NFL...... :X
Most Vikings fans would be shocked to see the Vikings pull the trigger on a deal like this. I highly doubt that we'd give up a #1 and a #2 to move up, much less both #1's. However, anything could happen, I guess. Heck, the Broncos got the Redskins to give them their first-born for a #25 overall, and Mike Tice is probably on about the same I.Q. level as Daniel Snyder when it comes to off-the-field activities in the NFL...... :X Clark Griswold
Footballguy
I don't expect the Vikes to give up 7 and 18 to move to 2 or 3. Thta being said, if the Vikes brass feels that Edwards or whoever would be there, is a missing link to their team or a player that absolutely have to have on their team, I would not bat an eye at them trading both to get that player. I just don't see anyone in this darft as that kind of player. While this draft is not particularly top heavy IMHO, I think alot of great players will come from this draft in the lower 1st, 2nd and 3rd.I would not trade up in his draft, if anything I would trade down. The Vikes can get two very good players at 7 and 18 and I am not convinced that those players will turn out any less than what they could get at the 2 or 3. I would stay pat and help the offense and defense. Ideal situation would be to take a CB at 7(Rolle,Rogers and Jones in that order) and go for a WR at 18(Clayton or White). No way do I pick two WRs.
Gridiron King
Footballguy
Everybody is looking to trade down from the top spots in the draft this year. So why would anyone give alot to move up?
BigJim®
Footballguy
I don't know what reason we have to think it is remotely accurate with all the BS flying around.Bottom line: If the Vikes do this trade, they will have effectively traded Randy Moss and a #18 1st round pick for Nap Harris and a rookie WR. I strongly believe Miami is leveraging Minnesota's futility to boost the value of their pick... there's just nothing in it for Minny. While I'm the first guy to say the Vikes have a JV front office, I find it hard to believe the collective fanbase opinion is this different from how things are being looked at in the war room. I'd still put my money on the Vikes moving down if they move at all.
Clark Griswold
Footballguy
If Miami could pull this deal off as well as Surtain for a 2nd, then Saban will have a very young roster, which is what he wants. If I were a Dolphin fan, I would be very encouraged if Saban is able to do this in his first draft.
Finatic
Footballguy
I pasted this from TwinCities.com today.It basically stated what BigJim said regarding the Vikes intentions....http://www.twincities.com/mld/twinc...ll/11437226.htm
The Vikings have talked to some teams at the top of this weekend's NFL draft, but that doesn't mean they're looking to trade up from the No. 7 spot.
In fact, according to team vice president of football operations Rob Brzezinski, they could just as easily end up moving in the opposite direction.
"I don't want to name teams," Brzezinski said Tuesday. "I will confirm we have talked to teams ahead of us and behind us. We're looking for value. We want to know what it would cost us to move up. It's also possible we could move back for the right value."
Minnesota, which owns the seventh and 18th selections of the first round, reportedly has talked to San Francisco, Miami and Cleveland — which are scheduled to pick first through third, respectively — about a possible trade.
The Vikings' No. 1 need is at wide receiver, and a top-three pick likely would ensure them a shot at this year's top prospect, Michigan's Braylon Edwards, or Southern California's Mike Williams.
Anything is possible, according to Brzezinski, but he said the chances of a trade down are just as likely. That won't create the same buzz as the trade-up rumors, but Brzezinski said the Vikings will continue to talk trade with teams above and below them and that he expects those discussions to continue through Saturday.
"It's likely we'll pick at seven," he said. "All we're doing is exploring our options. We're wide open."
1. Randy Moss and a #18 for Nap Harris, the #2 overall and a 7th rounder is EXACTLY the reason why the Vikings will not trade both first rounders in a trade. Granted, the Moss trade is a "sunk cost", and the landscape around Winter Park is VERY different now that the team has bolstered its defense. However, I just cannot see them pulling a "Dan Snyder" on Saturday.2. JV Front Office? This could not be a more incorrect statement! Rob Brzezinski is one of the best in the game. That, and the team has probably had the best drafts of any NFL team over the past 2-3 seasons. I'll definitely give you "JV Head Coach" though....
Finatic
Footballguy
It's going to take a deal like this to get that pick in my opinion.You can argue that this draft is not laden with blue chip talent,ect,ect.But every team for the most part follows some kind of value chart and I'm sure Saban is just not going to trade down without recouping what he deems proper value for the pick.......
According to the Draft Pick Value Chart NFL teams use to assign a point value to draft picks, the deal would be:Miami's 2nd overall = 2600ptsforMinn's 7th overall (1500pts), 18th overall (900pts), and EITHER 3rd rd pick (235pts) OR most likely 4th rd pick (88pts) = either 2635pts including the 3rd rd pick or 2488pts including the 4th rd pick. Therefore, according to this chart which the teams use, 7th, 18th, and 4th rd is fair value for the #2 overall pick. As a Dolphin fan, I'm really hoping this happens. We could be looking at a couple of great combos of players.
diesel7982
Footballguy
Marcus Spears + Khalif Barnes for Braylon Edwards wouldnt be a bad deal for the Phins.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I'm sorry, the Vikes have not done enough, for any significant period, to convince anyone they are anything but a bottom tier front office. I'm certain I read they have the lowest staffed/paid front office in the NFL as of 2004. They certainly don't do much right on draft day (with obviously an exception here or there). Say what you will about obtaining a couple nice FAs this offseason, their general FA/rookie player evaluations is nothing short of attrocious, historically speaking. While you are right that Rob Brzezinski appears to have his crap together, please grant me that it ain't too difficult to work miracles with the cap when you have an owner who'd rather saw off his own arm than spend cash on players. I'm pretty sure you or I could get the Vikes 50 million under the cap when half of it is being created through LTBE incentives, and the rest is coming from unspent money.2. JV Front Office? This could not be a more incorrect statement! Rob Brzezinski is one of the best in the game. That, and the team has probably had the best drafts of any NFL team over the past 2-3 seasons. I'll definitely give you "JV Head Coach" though....
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
So this must mean the Vikings actually covet pick #4, since they are bound to turn their pick in late accidently.
BigJim®
Footballguy
True, but the GIGANTIC caveat that dwarfs this thought is there is no value to #2 this year. Teams are vocally begging to get out of 1-4, and that makes a chart quite useless. There simply are no franchise players available in 2005 (do you disagree?), and guys being mocked at #2 (Ronnie Brown) could just as easily go at #10-14 because there simply isn't any clear division in talent this year. There's no one size fits all chart, this stuff will always come down to basic concepts of supply and demand. Unless I'm mistaken, there's exactly zero demand for that pick. Perhaps TB will give token value to get there.
Wrong, BigJim. The Vikings drafts in the post-Denny Green era have been STELLAR. The team looked like jack*sses with the whole Kevin Williams "pass" fiasco, but the Ryan Sims pick issue the year before was not the Vikings fault. Kansas City's time had expired, with the Vikings rushing up behind them to try and take Sims. However, the NFL granted the Chiefs extra time as they were trying to work out a deal with the Cowboys (I think). Kinda "funny" that one year later, the Vikings get left at the altar by the Ravens (due to a "busy signal"?! Please...friggin' Ravens) and the NFL doesn't give the Vikings any extra time......
I might look at it a little differently than you do. Rather than focus on the shortcomings that the team has endured under Red McCombs and 
related to the Vikings not having a clue when it comes to the draft after "the pass", I prefer to think about just how much this team has accomplished with an owner that hasn't wanted to spend any money. If you wanna REALLY look at some bad drafts (Packers) or mismanaged squads (Redskins), I can think of some MUCH bigger offenders than the Minnesota Vikings.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
For the record, I'm changing my stance. Andy D or Blue Onion hinted at this earlier, but I think the "Minny is trading up for Edwards" is 
. I think they want to trade up... but I think the target is Benson. Most people think Edwards. Some people think Brown, but I think its Benson. Everything I have seen in the last 2 days leads me to believethe Bears are already fitting Benson's jersey. I think Minnesota is trying to get ahead of Chicago to select the most Pro-ready offensive player in the draft. The Vikings are a team that needs improvement in play, but isn't particularly weak anywhere right now, not even WR IMO. They can play with the best teams in the NFL on any given Sunday (playoff torching of Green Bay) and they can stink up the joint as well as anyone. They are a solid running game (O-side) and pass rush (D-side) from being a very very good team.So, mark me down for the following: Vikings trade up to take Cedric Benson, not Braylon Edwards, Mike WIlliams, or Ronnie Brown.COlin
. I think they want to trade up... but I think the target is Benson. Most people think Edwards. Some people think Brown, but I think its Benson. Everything I have seen in the last 2 days leads me to believethe Bears are already fitting Benson's jersey. I think Minnesota is trying to get ahead of Chicago to select the most Pro-ready offensive player in the draft. The Vikings are a team that needs improvement in play, but isn't particularly weak anywhere right now, not even WR IMO. They can play with the best teams in the NFL on any given Sunday (playoff torching of Green Bay) and they can stink up the joint as well as anyone. They are a solid running game (O-side) and pass rush (D-side) from being a very very good team.So, mark me down for the following: Vikings trade up to take Cedric Benson, not Braylon Edwards, Mike WIlliams, or Ronnie Brown.COlin
BigJim®
Footballguy
All I can say to that statement is WOW. The Vikes have drafted 3 'impact' players in the past 3 full drafts, two of which were top-10 picks (McKinnie, K.Williams, Burleson). They have taken chances on 3 guys (Onterrio Smith, EJ Henderson, K.Udeze) who fell to them, for what in retrospect appears to be valid reason. Mewelde Moore, Darion Scott and Brian Williams have showed they could be situational players last season. The rest? Raonall SmithWillie OffordEd Ta'amuNick RogersChad BeasleyEddie JohnsonMike NattielKeenan HowryDontarrious ThomasNat DorseyRod DavisDiandre EilandJeff Dugan Please do not capitalize the word steller in describing this trash heap/waste of NFL draft picks.
BigJim,Bryant McKinnieKevin WilliamsNate BurlesonKenechi UdezeOnterrio SmithMewelde MooreWillie Offord (might replace Corey Chavous as the starter in '05)Dontarrious Thomas (who I think will be a player once he matures)Nat Dorsey (see D. Thomas)Four top starters and as many as nine major contributors in three drafts. Call me crazy, but that's pretty darned good. If SOD could lay off the weed, it would have been FIVE top starters in three seasons (friggin' Onterrio, throwing away an NFL career that millions would kill for). That doesn't even include what Offord, Thomas and Dorsey will do a few seasons from now! I don't know...I know I wear some Purple-tinted glasses this time of the year, but I have little doubt that the Vikings will land at LEAST 2-3 serious players in this year's draft. Of course, two #1's will help out a lot.
mcjc4
Footballguy
Here the Vikings last 7 1st rounders
1998 Moss
1999 Culpepper
2000 Hovan
2001 Bennett
2002 Mckinney
2003 Williams
2004 Udeze
4 probowlers in 6 seasons, not to shabby of a draft. I think in a couple of years you can bank on highlighting McKinney. Udeze at 20 i believe will turn out to be a great pick.
1998 Moss
1999 Culpepper
2000 Hovan
2001 Bennett
2002 Mckinney
2003 Williams
2004 Udeze
4 probowlers in 6 seasons, not to shabby of a draft. I think in a couple of years you can bank on highlighting McKinney. Udeze at 20 i believe will turn out to be a great pick.
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BigJim®
Footballguy
You're crazy (hey, you asked me to). 3 of the players you mentioned are RBs the Vikes are currently trying to displace. Udeze was playing with one arm, and the jury is very much still out on him for that very reason (1st rounders don't get a pass as studs just because they were 1st rounders). I was being courteous in my first post putting McKinnie in the 'impact' category... some would argue (and do a darn good job doing it) that he hasn't even approached expectations to date. As for the projects, what coaching staff exactly is going to cultivate that talent? Exactly. As for the next post which calls attention to Mike Bennett being a pro bowl player... I mean how does one respond to something so blatantly outdated other than pointing to the obvious fact he's in the process of being replaced and can't even fetch a mediocre draft pick from the guy who initially drafted him. As for his inclusion of Denny years when we are focusing on post-Denny drafts, I beg that poster not to force my hand in listing the complete garbage Denny drafted in rounds 2-7. Please, for the love of god, don't make me do it. I won't do it.BigJim,
Bryant McKinnie
Kevin Williams
Nate Burleson
Kenechi Udeze
Onterrio Smith
Mewelde Moore
Willie Offord (might replace Corey Chavous as the starter in '05)
Dontarrious Thomas (who I think will be a player once he matures)
Nat Dorsey (see D. Thomas)
Four top starters and as many as nine major contributors in three drafts. Call me crazy, but that's pretty darned good. If SOD could lay off the weed, it would have been FIVE top starters in three seasons (friggin' Onterrio, throwing away an NFL career that millions would kill for). That doesn't even include what Offord, Thomas and Dorsey will do a few seasons from now!
I don't know...I know I wear some Purple-tinted glasses this time of the year, but I have little doubt that the Vikings will land at LEAST 2-3 serious players in this year's draft. Of course, two #1's will help out a lot.
BigJim,1. Two RBs (Onterrio Smith and Mewelde Moore), not three, unless you're aware of a recent player position change that I haven't caught-on to yet.2. Yes, I forgot. A rookie "Kenechi Udeze" playing on ONE ARM was pretty solid last season. Just imagine how good he can/will be when playing at 100%......not bad for, what, #20 overall?! 3. Bryant McKinnie is a seriously good player, and an anchor on the Vikings O-Line. The way he was being hyped though (never giving up a sack at ANY LEVEL before coming to the NFL), how could ANYONE live up to the hype that was placed on him? Mt. McKinnie has been well-worth the draft pick the Vikings spent on him and will be an anchor on that line for Y-E-A-R-S.4. Coaching staff. I think Tice is as big of a joke as just-about anyone else out there. My only hope is that he gets his walking papers after the 2005 season, although I can't decide whether McCombs, Fowler or Taylor would be better for helping to expedite the process of running Tice out of town.No arguments about the Vikings horrible coaching staff from me! As for the rest of it though.........
Captain Blowhard
Footballguy
Not only is the talk for both first round picks, it includes another mid-round pick.Read it and weep:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylc=X3oD...=yhoo&type=lgns
Captain Blowhard
Footballguy
It's the media reporting that compensation, not delusional Miami fans (see above post/link).
I don't know how accurate Charles Robinson's (the author of the article) articles have been in the past, but he suggests that Miami is one of three teams that could potentially trade for Travis Henry. The idea that the Bills would trade a productive RB a division rival who could really use him is absurd. So as a huge Dolphins fan, I would be ecstatic to see this deal completed, but I'm a bit skeptical of the Yahoo article citing "a league source."
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
I wonder if the Vikings were maybe going to do this trade if they would have gotten Kampman??I certainly hope they don't do it, unless they have Edwards WAY higher than everyone else. And who is to say that the 49ers don't trade away the #1 to someone else that covets Edwards. Too risky IMO
ninerfan
Footballguy
If that were true (and it may be), wouldn't it make more sense to move one of their RB's rather than two first round picks?For the record, I'm changing my stance. Andy D or Blue Onion hinted at this earlier, but I think the "Minny is trading up for Edwards" is
Most people think Edwards. Some people think Brown, but I think its Benson. Everything I have seen in the last 2 days leads me to believethe Bears are already fitting Benson's jersey. I think Minnesota is trying to get ahead of Chicago to select the most Pro-ready offensive player in the draft. The Vikings are a team that needs improvement in play, but isn't particularly weak anywhere right now, not even WR IMO. They can play with the best teams in the NFL on any given Sunday (playoff torching of Green Bay) and they can stink up the joint as well as anyone. They are a solid running game (O-side) and pass rush (D-side) from being a very very good team.
So, mark me down for the following: Vikings trade up to take Cedric Benson, not Braylon Edwards, Mike WIlliams, or Ronnie Brown.
COlin
Agree with part A, but I believe the target is Ronnie BrownFor the record, I'm changing my stance. Andy D or Blue Onion hinted at this earlier, but I think the "Minny is trading up for Edwards" is
COlin
