Miami RB's (1 Viewer)

[coachbobbyfinstock]

According to everything read it is a forgone conclusion that Bush will not be back with the 'fins. Who is going to be the man in Miami next year.

think I like Lamar Miller's upside the most, but I suppose Daniel THomas will be in the mix. Anyone else? Can Thomas stay healthy?

How will this shake out?

Miami's O seems to be headed in the right direction, any predictions for Miller or Thomas' numbers next year?

Miller could be studly...

 

[Concept Coop]

I see them brining someone in. Don't think Jackson would go there, but Mendy, Greene, Felix, Bradshaw, Blount are options. Otherwise, I think they're likely to draft someone.Then it's off to camp and it' will sort itself out, likely resulting in some kind of RBBC.My thoughts.

 

[rct]

According to everything read it is a forgone conclusion that Bush will not be back with the 'fins. Who is going to be the man in Miami next year.

think I like Lamar Miller's upside the most, but I suppose Daniel THomas will be in the mix. Anyone else? Can Thomas stay healthy?

How will this shake out?

Miami's O seems to be headed in the right direction, any predictions for Miller or Thomas' numbers next year?

Miller could be studly...

Speculation seems to be that it will be Miller Time and I go with that for the time being.

 

[coachbobbyfinstock]

great point about bringing someone in. If im not mistaken the fins were interested in Bradshaw when he was a FA (prior to signing Bush).

 

[gianmarco]

I see them brining someone in. Don't think Jackson would go there, but Mendy, Greene, Felix, Bradshaw, Blount are options. Otherwise, I think they're likely to draft someone.

Then it's off to camp and it' will sort itself out, likely resulting in some kind of RBBC.

My thoughts.

Bolded are guys I wouldn't worry about. If Miller is talented enough (which quite a few think he is), he should be able to beat out those guys for the majority of the carries (even if a timeshare). Bradshaw is intriguing as he's a great RB but health is obviously an issue. I think Mendy is the only true legit threat in terms of keeping Miller out of the starting position but I don't know if Miami wants to pony up as much as he'd be looking for when they have so many other needs.I'd say the odds are at least 50% that Miller is the starter for 2013 or will be at some point in the year.

 

[Concept Coop]

Bolded are guys I wouldn't worry about. If Miller is talented enough (which quite a few think he is), he should be able to beat out those guys for the majority of the carries (even if a timeshare).

I think the key here is the word timeshare. Greene/Blount aren't likely to keep Miller on the bench like Bush did. But they could do what the Dolphins had hoped Thomas would.

Bradshaw is intriguing as he's a great RB but health is obviously an issue. I think Mendy is the only true legit threat in terms of keeping Miller out of the starting position but I don't know if Miami wants to pony up as much as he'd be looking for when they have so many other needs.

I think all mentioned are a legit threat to put Miller on the bench to start games. Teams like having the traditional, or bruiser type opening games, with the COP back coming in later. For the record, I know what Miller's BMI is, but I feel he's a COP at this level. Felix Jones is proof that being a bell-cow is more than just size. You have to be a steady, balanced, powerful runner to be a bell-cow. I like Miller's potential to one day be that. But, at the moment, I still question it.

I'd say the odds are at least 50% that Miller is the starter for 2013 or will be at some point in the year.

I'd take an EV bet, taking other side.

 

[MAC_32]

I expect them to draft someone to share the load with Miller.

 

[coachbobbyfinstock]

Seems like a well thought out post. But can someone fill in the blanks for me. COP= ?BMI= ?EV= ?Sure they are something simple....

 

[Concept Coop]

Seems like a well thought out post. But can someone fill in the blanks for me. COP= ?BMI= ?EV= ?Sure they are something simple....

Change of pace.Body mass index.Even. A bet with even odds. Or, a pick 'em.

 

[coachbobbyfinstock]

 

[Concept Coop]

 

[jonboltz]

For the record, I know what Miller's BMI is, but I feel he's a COP at this level. Felix Jones is proof that being a bell-cow is more than just size. You have to be a steady, balanced, powerful runner to be a bell-cow. I like Miller's potential to one day be that. But, at the moment, I still question it.

Based on his combine from last year, his BMI would be 29.6

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I see them brining someone in. Don't think Jackson would go there, but Mendy, Greene, Felix, Bradshaw, Blount are options. Otherwise, I think they're likely to draft someone.

Then it's off to camp and it' will sort itself out, likely resulting in some kind of RBBC.

My thoughts.

Bolded are guys I wouldn't worry about. If Miller is talented enough (which quite a few think he is), he should be able to beat out those guys for the majority of the carries (even if a timeshare). Bradshaw is intriguing as he's a great RB but health is obviously an issue. I think Mendy is the only true legit threat in terms of keeping Miller out of the starting position but I don't know if Miami wants to pony up as much as he'd be looking for when they have so many other needs.I'd say the odds are at least 50% that Miller is the starter for 2013 or will be at some point in the year.

Miami has the third most cap room ($47 MMM) in the league. I'm not saying they will pay a RB but they can. As pointed out before Bradshaw was under consideration before he resigned with the NYG two yaers ago and I can see them brining him in. He'd be a good RBBC partner with Miller.

 

[Concept Coop]

Based on his combine from last year, his BMI would be 29.6

I know that. Well, actually, I didn't know what his BMI was, just that his height/weight would suggest he'll be just fine being a 3 down back. And he could be. A lot of owners I respect are rolling the dice and are quite sure that he will be. I just want to see more before I invest it in, just like Jaquizz Rodgers who has a crazy BMI and no clear starter in front of him.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Based on his combine from last year, his BMI would be 29.6

I know that. Well, actually, I didn't know what his BMI was, just that his height/weight would suggest he'll be just fine being a 3 down back. And he could be. A lot of owners I respect are rolling the dice and are quite sure that he will be. I just want to see more before I invest it in, just like Jaquizz Rodgers who has a crazy BMI and no clear starter in front of him.

As much as I liked Rodgers coming into the league, I guess the difference would be that Rodgers has already "failed" his audition while the jury is still out with Miller.

 

[gianmarco]

Based on his combine from last year, his BMI would be 29.6

I know that. Well, actually, I didn't know what his BMI was, just that his height/weight would suggest he'll be just fine being a 3 down back. And he could be. A lot of owners I respect are rolling the dice and are quite sure that he will be. I just want to see more before I invest it in, just like Jaquizz Rodgers who has a crazy BMI and no clear starter in front of him.

It's not just BMI. Rodgers is only 195 lbs. You have to have elite skills to perform as a starter at that size (see Charles, CJ3, etc.). Miller is 5'10 and 218 lbs. If you were to pick an ideal size for a 3 down starting RB in the NFL, that's it. There is nothing about him that suggests he's just a COP guy.

 

[Concept Coop]

There is nothing about him that suggests he's just a COP guy.

That's your opinion, and that's fine. Felix Jones has ideal size and is a COP guy. Roy Helu, too. But others have concerns, and, based on draft position, that is a lot of others.NFL:'He relies on speed and leg drive to gain yards. He won't be able to juke linebackers at the next level or bail himself out of bad spots with his feet. He runs like a power back at times, which could be a liability in the NFL at his size. 'CBS Sports:'Lacks much strength to power through tackles and doesn't have the body type to withstand a heavy beating. Suspect ball security and tends to wear down over the course of a game.''An upright runner with a narrow frame -- won't break many tackles.'Profootballweekly:'should be effective in tandem duty with a power back. Runs upright and struggles to grind out yards on his own inside (although was playing hurt and turned on contact more as a junior than he did earlier in career).'It's not as simple as "5'10", 218, 4.40. ZOMG - He's great!"

 

[gianmarco]

There is nothing about him that suggests he's just a COP guy.

That's your opinion, and that's fine. Felix Jones has ideal size and is a COP guy.But others have concerns, and, based on draft position, that is a lot of others.NFL:'He relies on speed and leg drive to gain yards. He won't be able to juke linebackers at the next level or bail himself out of bad spots with his feet. He runs like a power back at times, which could be a liability in the NFL at his size. 'CBS Sports:'Lacks much strength to power through tackles and doesn't have the body type to withstand a heavy beating. Suspect ball security and tends to wear down over the course of a game.''An upright runner with a narrow frame -- won't break many tackles.'It's not as simple as "5'10", 218, 4.40. ZOMG - He's great!"

Felix Jones is the one example you keep going to. They TRIED to give him more carries but he simply couldn't stay healthy. He's a COP RB as a result of not being able to stay on the field. But if a team wants to make a guy their starting RB, being 5'10 and 218 lbs is certainly not a reason that would stop him. Again, it's an ideal size to be a starting RB and handle the rigors of lots of carries in the NFL. The only reason he'll be a COP guy is if they have someone who they think is more talented than him to start or because he can't stay healthy. It's not because he's 5'10 and 218 lbs and you label him as a COP guy. That's a legitimate concern for RBs 200lbs or below based on size alone but not for 215+lb RBs under 6' tall.

 

[Concept Coop]

Felix Jones is the one example you keep going to. They TRIED to give him more carries but he simply couldn't stay healthy. He's a COP RB as a result of not being able to stay on the field.

There is tape of the conversation between Jerry and Garrett (OC at the time) before they drafted him. They described him as a special change of pace player. That's what they drafted him to do. They say that they would have drafted Mendenhall over him if they were looking for a 3 down back. Roy Helu's staff called him a COP guy before his injury, too. Also your perfect size.

But if a team wants to make a guy their starting RB, being 5'10 and 218 lbs is certainly not a reason that would stop him. Again, it's an ideal size to be a starting RB and handle the rigors of lots of carries in the NFL.

He's narrow, runs upright, and doesn't break tackles. He doesn't play his weight. He's going to need to be in space to be dangerous.He could be a Spiller like player, who - despite lacking a few traditional 3-down-back triats - is able to make enough plays to offset that. But I'm just not betting on it.

 

[Concept Coop]

The only reason he'll be a COP guy is if they have someone who they think is more talented than him to start or because he can't stay healthy. It's not because he's 5'10 and 218 lbs and you label him as a COP guy. That's a legitimate concern for RBs 200lbs or below based on size alone but not for 215+lb RBs under 6' tall.

At least admit that's your opinion. I am not the only one with concerns - as I showed you - and there are plenty of players his size who aren't 3 down backs in the NFL. He is narrow, runs upright, and I don't know if he can make people miss and break tackles at a high enough rate. I don't know if he can take the beating, based on his running style. As much as you want it to be as simple as his size, it's not.

 

[jonboltz]

He's narrow, runs upright, and doesn't break tackles. He doesn't play his weight. He's going to need to be in space to be dangerous.He could be a Spiller like player, who - despite lacking a few traditional 3-down-back triats - is able to make enough plays to offset that. But I'm just not betting on it.

One of the things I most enjoy about watching Lamar is that he operates very well between the tackles. At the U, and last season in his limited carries, he rarely bounced plays to the outside. Even his long runs came on moving through the seams between the tackles. I seem to recall from the other Miller thread discussion you watched his 2012 video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7khPECxIbxY). It is a bit slanted, as it only included runs 4 yards or greater, but it gives a fair estimation of his running abilities -- and I think most of his runs were between the tackles. Can he do that 15x per game? Don't think anyone can know that for sure. And while he didn't bounce DBs off of him, he seemed to do a good job of running through arm tackles and gaining the extra yard or two...I certainly don't think he's a back that immediately goes down on first contact.

 

[Concept Coop]

I seem to recall from the other Miller thread discussion you watched his 2012 video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7khPECxIbxY).

Yes. And the entire Buffalo/Oak games. (couldn't find NYJ, which I'd also like to watch).

It is a bit slanted, as it only included runs 4 yards or greater, but it gives a fair estimation of his running abilities -- and I think most of his runs were between the tackles.

It is as slanted as it gets. And lacks some needed context. His runs started bewteen the tackles...

Can he do that 15x per game? Don't think anyone can know that for sure. And while he didn't bounce DBs off of him, he seemed to do a good job of running through arm tackles and gaining the extra yard or two...I certainly don't think he's a back that immediately goes down on first contact.

There's just no quality sample size to use. He looked good in those 20+ carries. He is fast as hell, and when he's in space he's great. But he was a 4th round pick and the 3rd string back on his team. It's going to take more than 20+ carries, many against Buffalo, to make me overlook that and project him to start.

 

[gianmarco]

The only reason he'll be a COP guy is if they have someone who they think is more talented than him to start or because he can't stay healthy. It's not because he's 5'10 and 218 lbs and you label him as a COP guy. That's a legitimate concern for RBs 200lbs or below based on size alone but not for 215+lb RBs under 6' tall.

At least admit that's your opinion. I am not the only one with concerns - as I showed you - and there are plenty of players his size who aren't 3 down backs in the NFL. He is narrow, runs upright, and I don't know if he can make people miss and break tackles at a high enough rate. I don't know if he can take the beating, based on his running style. As much as you want it to be as simple as his size, it's not.

It is my opinion, but again, those players that are his size that aren't 3 down backs aren't starters because of talent level, not because of size. I'd gladly listen to a list of guys talented enough to be starters that couldn't hack it at that size BECAUSE of that size. If guys like Quizz or Daryl Richardson could do what they do while playing at 215 lbs, I guarantee they'd be starting RBs in the NFL. As for the running upright, if that's on his scouting report, I can't think of a more inaccurate statement about him and his running style.

Again, here are the 2012 highlights of him: Miller 2012

The LAST thing I'd take away from that video is that he runs too upright. There are surely guys that run upright that we can see (DMC, Murray).....I can't fathom how that made it onto a scouting report on him. If you find any video evidence of what you think of him running upright is, I'd love to see it.

 

[Concept Coop]

Again, here are the 2012 highlights of him: Miller 2012

When you want to watch all his carries, and not just those 20 carries, 10 minutes on Google, and some download time will get you all of his games.

 

[jonboltz]

It is as slanted as it gets. And lacks some needed context. His runs started bewteen the tackles...

I only saw two of those runs where he bounced it to the outside, and *perhaps* one more in the middle of the series, where he was 1v1 and happened so sidestep to the outside to beat the defender.

But he was a 4th round pick and the 3rd string back on his team.

Do you believe he fell to the 4th round based on talent issues, or the reported other concerns (mostly injury/shoulders, but some people hypothesized playbook concerns)? If it was talent concerns, do you believe that everyone that had him predraft ahead of (or same as) Wilson were baseless?

 

[Concept Coop]

It is my opinion, but again, those players that are his size that aren't 3 down backs aren't starters because of talent level, not because of size.

I am confused about this. I have been saying this entire thread that it isn't because of his size. I never claimed size as my reasoning.

As for the running upright, if that's on his scouting report, I can't think of a more inaccurate statement about him and his running style.

Really? I think it's pretty accurate. He runs top heavy. Look how he takes contact and changes direction. He leads with his upper-body.

 

[jonboltz]

As for the running upright, if that's on his scouting report, I can't think of a more inaccurate statement about him and his running style.

Really? I think it's pretty accurate. He runs top heavy. Look how he takes contact and changes direction. He leads with his upper-body.

I know that you are knowledgeable, but that last comment makes me wonder if you know exactly what "running upright" means. I honestly think you do any this might be likely a case of confusion via internet message boards, but...It sure looks like Miller runs most of the time with his shoulders low, especially through the line, and keeps them down for hits. This would be the opposite of running upright.

 

[Concept Coop]

I only saw two of those runs where he bounced it to the outside, and *perhaps* one more in the middle of the series, where he was 1v1 and happened so sidestep to the outside to beat the defender.

I'm watching now and saw a whole lot more than two. Look how many of those rns are designed to go to the outside (off tackle). The very large majority of them.

Do you believe he fell to the 4th round based on talent issues, or the reported other concerns (mostly injury/shoulders, but some people hypothesized playbook concerns)? If it was talent concerns, do you believe that everyone that had him predraft ahead of (or same as) Wilson were baseless?

I think that the mock draft community was higher on him than the NFL ever was.And does anyone have a report suggesting he fell because of his shoulder injury? This is an honest question, I simlpy haven't seen (or don't remember seeing) a report suggesting that. I don't recall his shoulder being an issue while people were suggesting he'd go in the first.My understanding is that it was a minor shoulder injury which he played through in college. Am I missing something? Again, I very well could be.

 

[Concept Coop]

I know that you are knowledgeable, but that last comment makes me wonder if you know exactly what "running upright" means. I honestly think you do any this might be likely a case of confusion via internet message boards, but...

If I don't know what it means, a whole lot of people like myself are cunfused too. NFL.com, CBSSports, Walter Football, Pro Football Weekly, gridironexperts, thephinsider.com, NFLsfuture.com. All claimed Miller runs upright in their player profiles. All confusion via internet message boards?

 

[gianmarco]

Again, here are the 2012 highlights of him: Miller 2012

When you want to watch all his carries, and not just those 20 carries, 10 minutes on Google, and some download time will get you all of his games.

I've watched plenty of his carries. I'm putting that up since it's his most recent and shows him in the NFL. I'm completely fine being in the minority if every scouting report describes him as running upright. I don't see it AT ALL.

 

[jonboltz]

I know that you are knowledgeable, but that last comment makes me wonder if you know exactly what "running upright" means. I honestly think you do any this might be likely a case of confusion via internet message boards, but...

If I don't know what it means, a whole lot of people like myself are cunfused too. NFL.com, CBSSports, Walter Football, Pro Football Weekly, gridironexperts, thephinsider.com, NFLsfuture.com. All claimed Miller runs upright in their player profiles. All confusion via internet message boards?

Again, I said I think it was a confusion in the words you used -- "Leads with his upper body". When I think of a RB leading with his upper-body I think of him leading with the shoulders, i.e. what they are supposed to do. When I think of "running upright", I think of running as a sprinter with their shoulders back (which isn't the worst thing if you are talented, for example Robert Smith). I just think your comment was probably more intended to mean that he runs like a sprinter, and it confused me.I would also point out that different scouting reports often 1) contract each other, and 2) copy each other. NFL.com actually says that he "He runs like a power back at times, which could be a liability in the NFL at his size", which is the opposite of running upright. Waldman, who I think watches and analyses more than most places out there, cited none of those concerns -- "good balance and power between the tackles", "can run through contact", "his pad level is consistently low enough that he bounces off hits and maximizes his output on carries".

 

[jonboltz]

I only saw two of those runs where he bounced it to the outside, and *perhaps* one more in the middle of the series, where he was 1v1 and happened so sidestep to the outside to beat the defender.

I'm watching now and saw a whole lot more than two. Look how many of those rns are designed to go to the outside (off tackle). The very large majority of them.

Do you believe he fell to the 4th round based on talent issues, or the reported other concerns (mostly injury/shoulders, but some people hypothesized playbook concerns)? If it was talent concerns, do you believe that everyone that had him predraft ahead of (or same as) Wilson were baseless?

I think that the mock draft community was higher on him than the NFL ever was.And does anyone have a report suggesting he fell because of his shoulder injury? This is an honest question, I simlpy haven't seen (or don't remember seeing) a report suggesting that. I don't recall his shoulder being an issue while people were suggesting he'd go in the first.My understanding is that it was a minor shoulder injury which he played through in college. Am I missing something? Again, I very well could be.

I only recall reports of the shoulder injury having dropped him off some teams lists from some Miami beat reporters following the draft. I cannot recall where I heard "playbook concerns" originally from. I seem to recall Kiper dropping Miller down a fair amount just prior to the draft, but I don't recall the exact reason for it (injury vs talent vs playbook vs other).By the 'mock draft community' -- do you mean anyone that isn't a GM? If so, then its obviously true due to his final draft slot, but that doesn't exactly tell us *why* he fell there.

 

[Concept Coop]

I've watched plenty of his carries. I'm putting that up since it's his most recent and shows him in the NFL. I'm completely fine being in the minority if every scouting report describes him as running upright. I don't see it AT ALL.

And I honestly would like to see what you see. I have said all along that a lot of posters I respect really like the guy, and that I could be dead wrong.But simply using the video you posted: (I say this knowing full well I'm just a random football fan; not pretending to be anything more than that) You can see that it is something he is working on. He often started low and there are a couple runs where he gets low to take head on contact. But when he's hit from the side, and not expecting it - that looks high to me. In about 50% of his jump cuts (again, small sample size) he rises up and isn't (wouldn't) be able to take contact. His lower body doesn't look strong to me, and he doesn't make as many people miss as I would look for. Overall, as I said, the highlights look good. He makes a lot of nice runs and is very dangerous in space. I am simply looking for a bigger sample size and additional context.

 

[Concept Coop]

Again, I said I think it was a confusion in the words you used -- "Leads with his upper body". When I think of a RB leading with his upper-body I think of him leading with the shoulders, i.e. what they are supposed to do. When I think of "running upright", I think of running as a sprinter with their shoulders back (which isn't the worst thing if you are talented, for example Robert Smith).

Adrian Peterson is an example of a guy who can generate power with and behind his shoulders; what I would call top heavy. But most do so with their lower body - running behind their pads, sure - but getting their balance and power from their lower body. That is what I am talking about. He takes the blount of the impact with his upper body. When he knows contact is coming, he often does better. But too often he goes down with one hit because he is top heavy and not Adrian Peterson.

I would also point out that different scouting reports often 1) contract each other, and 2) copy each other. NFL.com actually says that

Very true and Waldman is certainly I guy I trust.

By the 'mock draft community' -- do you mean anyone that isn't a GM? If so, then its obviously true due to his final draft slot, but that doesn't exactly tell us *why* he fell there.

I mean everyone that contributes to the status quo rankings prior to the draft. It happens a lot, really. I don't think the NFL community was ever as high on him as we were. There are surprising draft picks both ways (high/low) every tear. Some have obvious reasoning (injury, combine, etc) and some don't. When they don't, often, I think we just didn't have an accurate reading of what the war rooms actually think.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

Miller was a 4th rounder. But keep in mind that Miami traded their 4th rounder (103) their 6th (196) and their 2014 6th, to get high enough in the 4th (97) to get him. I would suspect they had him with a much higher grade than the 4th round. So much so that they didn't want to risk him being drafted in the next 6 picks. It's looking like it was a pretty deep draft for RBs at this point anyway. Bernard Pierce (84), Lamar Miller (97), and Robert Turbin (106) all came off the board in the same area, and all look like they can play IMO. Ballard (170) and Morris (173) were drafted late 5th/early 6th and Bryce Brown (229) DRich (242) look like decent players from the 7th.

 

[jonboltz]

Again, I said I think it was a confusion in the words you used -- "Leads with his upper body". When I think of a RB leading with his upper-body I think of him leading with the shoulders, i.e. what they are supposed to do. When I think of "running upright", I think of running as a sprinter with their shoulders back (which isn't the worst thing if you are talented, for example Robert Smith).

Adrian Peterson is an example of a guy who can generate power with and behind his shoulders; what I would call top heavy. But most do so with their lower body - running behind their pads, sure - but getting their balance and power from their lower body. That is what I am talking about. He takes the blount of the impact with his upper body. When he knows contact is coming, he often does better. But too often he goes down with one hit because he is top heavy and not Adrian Peterson.

Gotcha, makes more sense in this context and this is something I can buy into your assessment of Miller.

 

[jonboltz]

Miller was a 4th rounder. But keep in mind that Miami traded their 4th rounder (103) their 6th (196) and their 2014 6th, to get high enough in the 4th (97) to get him. I would suspect they had him with a much higher grade than the 4th round. So much so that they didn't want to risk him being drafted in the next 6 picks. It's looking like it was a pretty deep draft for RBs at this point anyway. Bernard Pierce (84), Lamar Miller (97), and Robert Turbin (106) all came off the board in the same area, and all look like they can play IMO. Ballard (170) and Morris (173) were drafted late 5th/early 6th and Bryce Brown (229) DRich (242) look like decent players from the 7th.

There was a lot of talent there in the mid-rounds. I will also suggest that Miller draft position, at least in the eyes of fantasy/dynasty owners, looked a bit worse with that (4) in front of it. A handful of picks earlier and he is a second-day/3rd round pick, which I believe produces a different psychological feeling when we evaluate him. But that is a tangent and not the reality of the situation.

 

[Concept Coop]

Miller was a 4th rounder. But keep in mind that Miami traded their 4th rounder (103) their 6th (196) and their 2014 6th, to get high enough in the 4th (97) to get him. I would suspect they had him with a much higher grade than the 4th round. So much so that they didn't want to risk him being drafted in the next 6 picks. It's looking like it was a pretty deep draft for RBs at this point anyway. Bernard Pierce (84), Lamar Miller (97), and Robert Turbin (106) all came off the board in the same area, and all look like they can play IMO. Ballard (170) and Morris (173) were drafted late 5th/early 6th and Bryce Brown (229) DRich (242) look like decent players from the 7th.

Very deep draft at RB, and Miami did come out and say that they liked him more than some of the guys drafted before him; so I would guess that a least a few teams graded him as a late 2/3rd round pick. I just don't think he was ever the prospect we thought he was this time last year.

 

[ty247]

Miller was a 4th rounder. But keep in mind that Miami traded their 4th rounder (103) their 6th (196) and their 2014 6th, to get high enough in the 4th (97) to get him. I would suspect they had him with a much higher grade than the 4th round. So much so that they didn't want to risk him being drafted in the next 6 picks. It's looking like it was a pretty deep draft for RBs at this point anyway. Bernard Pierce (84), Lamar Miller (97), and Robert Turbin (106) all came off the board in the same area, and all look like they can play IMO. Ballard (170) and Morris (173) were drafted late 5th/early 6th and Bryce Brown (229) DRich (242) look like decent players from the 7th.

Very deep draft at RB, and Miami did come out and say that they liked him more than some of the guys drafted before him; so I would guess that a least a few teams graded him as a late 2/3rd round pick. I just don't think he was ever the prospect we thought he was this time last year.

He had red flags concerning his shoulder come draft time which caused him to unexpectantly drop.

 

[Concept Coop]

He had red flags concerning his shoulder come draft time which caused him to unexpectantly drop.

People keep saying this, but I haven't seen anything. Does anyone have a link? I Googled it and it sounds like it was a minor injury during the season and he played through it, then had minor surgery. He was fine to compete at the combine, etc. I haven't seen anything suggesting that as the reason he fell.

 

[jonboltz]

He had red flags concerning his shoulder come draft time which caused him to unexpectantly drop.

People keep saying this, but I haven't seen anything. Does anyone have a link? I Googled it and it sounds like it was a minor injury during the season and he played through it. I haven't seen anything suggesting that as the reason he fell.

I'll look more, but I'm certain he actually had to have surgery on the shoulder following the season. He actually played through it during the year.

 

[Concept Coop]

I'll look more, but I'm certain he actually had to have surgery on the shoulder following the season. He actually played through it during the year.

He did. I did see that. Perhaps it was the reason, but it was described as minor and a non-issue by his coach. And I don't see any articles suggesting otherwise. Again, I could be wrong. And if he did only fall due to the shoulder, and was a potential 1st round pick before that, that is a solid bit of information that would support Miller's potential FF value.

 

[King of the Jungle]

He had red flags concerning his shoulder come draft time which caused him to unexpectantly drop.

People keep saying this, but I haven't seen anything. Does anyone have a link? I Googled it and it sounds like it was a minor injury during the season and he played through it. I haven't seen anything suggesting that as the reason he fell.

What did do you not like about him? When I watch him run he seems very quick and efficient (very little wasted movement and gets from point A to point B fast). Miller Time

 

[Concept Coop]

What did do you not like about him? When I watch him run he seems very quick and efficient (very little wasted movement and gets from point A to point B fast). Miller Time

It's really not that I don't like him. It's just that I don't like him at his current price and don't think he is anything close to a lock to start this season.As for what concerns I have, I question whether he is a 3 down back; build, durability, lower body strength, mostly. I would be happy to have him on any of my rosters, and if his cost wasn't so high, he'd be a target of mine. The potential is there, no doubt.

 

[gianmarco]

What did do you not like about him? When I watch him run he seems very quick and efficient (very little wasted movement and gets from point A to point B fast).

Miller Time

It's really not that I don't like him. It's just that I don't like him at his current price and don't think he is anything close to a lock to start this season.As for what concerns I have, I question whether he is a 3 down back; build, durability, lower body strength, mostly.

I would be happy to have him on any of my rosters, and if his cost wasn't so high, he'd be a target of mine. The potential is there, no doubt.

I've got a question for you. You've said he has a "narrow" upper body and you're also saying he doesn't have good lower body strength (which his 10' broad jump suggests otherwise).....He's only 5'10 and weighs 218, which is pretty sturdy. If it's not in his upper body and it's not in his lower body, where is it all? His arms certainly aren't big. I mean, you can't weigh that much at that height and not be thick/strong somewhere.

 

[Faust]

Lamar Miller reason for Reggie Bush's Dolphins demiseBy Chris Wesseling Around the League WriterPublished: Feb. 11, 2013

Impending free-agent running back Reggie Bush's agents are reportedly "confused" by the Miami Dolphins' indifference about his status since the end of the season. The team has yet to make him a contract offer.Bush's camp should look no further than Lamar Miller for an explanation, as the Dolphins believe the 97th pick in the 2012 draft can be a bigger, faster, better version in this year's backfield.While the expectations remain low for 2011 second-rounder Daniel Thomas, general manager Jeff Ireland recently singled out the more talented Miller for a bigger role."Lamar really showed some great signs of really some explosive play opportunity," Ireland said last week, according to The Palm Beach Post. "He kind of shoots out of the cannon when he hits the hole. He's got very good hands. I thought he did a very good job in his pass protection, which keeps him on the field all three downs." The Dolphins think highly enough of Miller as their lead running back that they likely will ignore looking for another player at the position in free agency.Any list of 2013 NFL breakout candidates should start with Miller. He has the playmaking ability to emerge as the Dolphins' top offensive weapon.

 

[jonboltz]

I'll look more, but I'm certain he actually had to have surgery on the shoulder following the season. He actually played through it during the year.

He did. I did see that. Perhaps it was the reason, but it was described as minor and a non-issue by his coach. And I don't see any articles suggesting otherwise. Again, I could be wrong. And if he did only fall due to the shoulder, and was a potential 1st round pick before that, that is a solid bit of information that would support Miller's potential FF value.

Not a ton of information, and certainly nothing conclusive in my search (and I claim no knowledge of validity of some of these places):Evan Silva -- best source on the list that cites medical concerns (not exclusively)The surgeryShoulder, but shouldn't cause miss any training campPure speculationRang - inexperience/playbook

 

[lbouchard]

What did do you not like about him? When I watch him run he seems very quick and efficient (very little wasted movement and gets from point A to point B fast). Miller Time

It's really not that I don't like him. It's just that I don't like him at his current price and don't think he is anything close to a lock to start this season.As for what concerns I have, I question whether he is a 3 down back; build, durability, lower body strength, mostly. I would be happy to have him on any of my rosters, and if his cost wasn't so high, he'd be a target of mine. The potential is there, no doubt.

Was he even a 3 down back at Miami? I recall some posts saying that he wasn't, but I could be incorrect.

 

[ty247]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1032477-why-lamar-miller-is-the-wrong-choice-for-the-bengals-in-round-oneLink to mention of his shoulder injury and shoulder surgery,Have to leave work otherwise would post more.

 

[jonboltz]

What did do you not like about him? When I watch him run he seems very quick and efficient (very little wasted movement and gets from point A to point B fast). Miller Time

It's really not that I don't like him. It's just that I don't like him at his current price and don't think he is anything close to a lock to start this season.As for what concerns I have, I question whether he is a 3 down back; build, durability, lower body strength, mostly. I would be happy to have him on any of my rosters, and if his cost wasn't so high, he'd be a target of mine. The potential is there, no doubt.

Was he even a 3 down back at Miami? I recall some posts saying that he wasn't, but I could be incorrect.

He led RBs in carries 227-72 and receptions 17-14-9. However, pass protection was a negative for him (and often, but not always, is the case for college backs). Ireland has reported that Miller was sound in pass protection last year, but its the offseason and everyone gets fluffed up there so take it with a bit of salt.