two_dollars
Footballguy
Ben was convicted of rape? link?
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Michael Vick outplayed Peyton Manning today (1 Viewer)
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
kotzwinkle
Footballguy
but you knew it was him, without a mention of his name...
Fla\/\/ed
Footballguy
Just pathetic
Fla\/\/ed
Footballguy
So please tell us how those links you provided show that Little and Stallworth are serial rapist not to mention when they played QB. #######g pathetic
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Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
I've firmly believed Vick to be one of the best QBs in the league, but several QBs had a better week than Manning. The fact that Peyton was on the other sideline doesn't make Vick's performance better.
Pathetic? Really? Those may not be cases of rape, but I'd put manslaughter pretty high up on the list of "no-no's" Much higher than dog fighting.So please tell us how those links you provided show that Little and Stallworth are serial rapist. #######g pathetic
two_dollars
Footballguy
Well no kidding. QB who was accused of it and was punished for putting himself in a bad position. If I referred to the QB who was running a dogfighting ring, I don't think you'd ask who I was talking about.
Fla\/\/ed
Footballguy
How slow are you? Do you want to tell us about the "serial rapist" that got a slap in the wrist? That is what KRS mentioned.Pathetic? Really? Those may not be cases of rape, but I'd put manslaughter pretty high up on the list of "no-no's" Much higher than dog fighting.So please tell us how those links you provided show that Little and Stallworth are serial rapist. #######g pathetic
timschochet
Footballguy
Vick received backlash because a large number of Americans have an aversion to cruelty to animals, especially to man's best friend. What is extraordinary about Vick is not the initial reaction he received but the fact that we are so willing as a society to forgive him so easily and move on. I would not have bet this was possible- I thought that animal rights groups and a good number of fans would protest and boycott any team that gave him a roster spot. I figured he would be persona non grata. But I was wrong, nobody batted an eyelash.I think you may be the slow one.. It's been made abundantly clear that the OP was referring to Ben
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
karma already knocked him out once this year, and it's probably not done with him.
he should be back in jail by december.
he should be back in jail by december.
We have an aversion to cruelty directed towards man's best friend, but not towards man himself. How rational.Vick received backlash because a large number of Americans have an aversion to cruelty to animals, especially to man's best friend. What is extraordinary about Vick is not the initial reaction he received but the fact that we are so willing as a society to forgive him so easily and move on. I would not have bet this was possible- I thought that animal rights groups and a good number of fans would protest and boycott any team that gave him a roster spot. I figured he would be persona non grata. But I was wrong, nobody batted an eyelash.I think you may be the slow one.. It's been made abundantly clear that the OP was referring to Ben
tend to agree with krs and im a dog owner.Just pathetic
*chuckle*
I live in Philly, trust me, they batted an eyelash. They boycotted, they petitioned. It was all over the news and in the paper. And it still continues, albeit mostly under the radar of national media now.
What, so they're your property?tend to agree with krs and im a dog owner.Just pathetic
Blue-Kun
Footballguy
What, so they're your property?tend to agree with krs and im a dog owner.Just pathetic
This fishing trip just gets better and better.
Billy Costigan Jr
Footballguy
So I'm silly for saying he's not the MVP because the season isn't over, but you're OK with those saying he is MVP even though the season isn't over.I was just making the distinction between player of the year and MVP, which very often isn't understood when it comes time to handing out the awards.But your presumption that I'm silly because you predict the Chargers record to improve is just asinine.Everyone in the FFA is right...the SP is filled with morons.MVP's are named at the end of the year, silly.
Insein
Footballguy
MY presumption was that by the end of the year, Rivers has a very good shot to be MVP. Your presumption was that there is no way he could because his team is 4-5. What if his team ends up 11-5 or 10-6 or 9-7 and makes the playoffs? I guess they aren't 4-5 then. No one wins the MVP in the middle of the year.So I'm silly for saying he's not the MVP because the season isn't over, but you're OK with those saying he is MVP even though the season isn't over.I was just making the distinction between player of the year and MVP, which very often isn't understood when it comes time to handing out the awards.But your presumption that I'm silly because you predict the Chargers record to improve is just asinine.Everyone in the FFA is right...the SP is filled with morons.MVP's are named at the end of the year, silly.
Insein
Footballguy
Its a natural human tendency to protect things we perceive as unable to protect themselves. Alot of pets such as cats and dogs, we see as vulnerable and unable to protect themselves much like children. An adult human is perceived as being fully capable of protecting his or her self. It doesn't make it right or wrong, thats just how many people see the situation. So thats why people get fantaical about treating animals inhumanely but are blaise when an adult human is killed.We have an aversion to cruelty directed towards man's best friend, but not towards man himself. How rational.Vick received backlash because a large number of Americans have an aversion to cruelty to animals, especially to man's best friend. What is extraordinary about Vick is not the initial reaction he received but the fact that we are so willing as a society to forgive him so easily and move on. I would not have bet this was possible- I thought that animal rights groups and a good number of fans would protest and boycott any team that gave him a roster spot. I figured he would be persona non grata. But I was wrong, nobody batted an eyelash.I think you may be the slow one.. It's been made abundantly clear that the OP was referring to Ben
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
How do you explain Wade Phillips then?Its a natural human tendency to protect things we perceive as unable to protect themselves. Alot of pets such as cats and dogs, we see as vulnerable and unable to protect themselves much like children. An adult human is perceived as being fully capable of protecting his or her self. It doesn't make it right or wrong, thats just how many people see the situation. So thats why people get fantaical about treating animals inhumanely but are blaise when an adult human is killed.We have an aversion to cruelty directed towards man's best friend, but not towards man himself. How rational.Vick received backlash because a large number of Americans have an aversion to cruelty to animals, especially to man's best friend. What is extraordinary about Vick is not the initial reaction he received but the fact that we are so willing as a society to forgive him so easily and move on. I would not have bet this was possible- I thought that animal rights groups and a good number of fans would protest and boycott any team that gave him a roster spot. I figured he would be persona non grata. But I was wrong, nobody batted an eyelash.I think you may be the slow one.. It's been made abundantly clear that the OP was referring to Ben
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Now I have to live with that visual all day today
Johnny Ice
Footballguy
Vick received backlash because a large number of Americans have an aversion to cruelty to animals, especially to man's best friend. What is extraordinary about Vick is not the initial reaction he received but the fact that we are so willing as a society to forgive him so easily and move on. I would not have bet this was possible- I thought that animal rights groups and a good number of fans would protest and boycott any team that gave him a roster spot. I figured he would be persona non grata. But I was wrong, nobody batted an eyelash.I think you may be the slow one.. It's been made abundantly clear that the OP was referring to Ben
I just don't understand how it's pathetic to bring up 2 cases of manslaughter and talk about how much little publicity and public backlash they recieved when compared to Vick.
You can't go two post in a Vick thread without seeing a lame dog joke. Sports radio is flooded with callers wanting him banned from the NFL or rooting for his demise. So quick to move on, not hardly. He served time for 2 years and lost a good amount of his wealth if not all of it. What more do you want Vick to suffer? I'm glad "society" isn't Vick's judge and jury. He's trying to turn his life around, he's playing the best football of his life and that's all that matters. Everyone who can't get over it should get ready to sit in front of the TV with a frown on their face because they are going to be seeing a lot of highlights and wins from here on out.
He'll screw up again. Countdown clock for him being back in prison is getting towards 0 I am sureVick received backlash because a large number of Americans have an aversion to cruelty to animals, especially to man's best friend. What is extraordinary about Vick is not the initial reaction he received but the fact that we are so willing as a society to forgive him so easily and move on. I would not have bet this was possible- I thought that animal rights groups and a good number of fans would protest and boycott any team that gave him a roster spot. I figured he would be persona non grata. But I was wrong, nobody batted an eyelash.I think you may be the slow one.. It's been made abundantly clear that the OP was referring to Ben
I just don't understand how it's pathetic to bring up 2 cases of manslaughter and talk about how much little publicity and public backlash they recieved when compared to Vick.You can't go two post in a Vick thread without seeing a lame dog joke. Sports radio is flooded with callers wanting him banned from the NFL or rooting for his demise. So quick to move on, not hardly. He served time for 2 years and lost a good amount of his wealth if not all of it. What more do you want Vick to suffer? I'm glad "society" isn't Vick's judge and jury. He's trying to turn his life around, he's playing the best football of his life and that's all that matters. Everyone who can't get over it should get ready to sit in front of the TV with a frown on their face because they are going to be seeing a lot of highlights and wins from here on out.
Johnny Ice
Footballguy
Well I'm sure it will be tough watching for you in the meantime. Pack a lunch.He'll screw up again. Countdown clock for him being back in prison is getting towards 0 I am sureVick received backlash because a large number of Americans have an aversion to cruelty to animals, especially to man's best friend. What is extraordinary about Vick is not the initial reaction he received but the fact that we are so willing as a society to forgive him so easily and move on. I would not have bet this was possible- I thought that animal rights groups and a good number of fans would protest and boycott any team that gave him a roster spot. I figured he would be persona non grata. But I was wrong, nobody batted an eyelash.I think you may be the slow one.. It's been made abundantly clear that the OP was referring to Ben
I just don't understand how it's pathetic to bring up 2 cases of manslaughter and talk about how much little publicity and public backlash they recieved when compared to Vick.
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
Peyton has a lot he can learn from Vick. Resilience is one of those things. I don't care how tough it gets in an NFL game, Vick has gone from prison to the very top of the NFL quarterbacking food chain in 18 months. Peyton was born with a golden arm, a golden pedigree and with everyone he ever met rooting for his success. He's not a self-made man like Vick is.
Pots
Footballguy
Vick has been blessed with more gifted athleticism and arguably a better arm (depending on your definition) than Peyton. His upbringing may have been very different, and he's made mistakes in his life that Peyton hasn't so your comment about being resiliant is still valid, but don't try to play off that Peyton has done less with more physically.
They made the playoffs only two of his six years in Atlanta and he was 1-1 in each of those playoffs.He was fantastic that one year at 11-4, but otherwise his record was nearly .500.He's one of the most exciting players I've ever seen. I still remember that preseason game against the Giants his rookie year where all he did was run straight and yet none of the Giants were fast enough to get there to tackle him. The jets he showed on that play were awesome.Montana, Young, Elway, Marino blah blah blah were awesome with two minutes left needing one scoring drive, but (as a fan) Vick is downright scary in that situation.Fisher's Titans have gone after Manning and other games they curiously just hold their ground. The DL push forward but they're not going for a sack, they just stay there. Everyone behind them plays super disciplined and sits home waiting for the play to come to them. Many many many times Manning can drive em' down the field but yet they don't score. BB and Pats have done something similar over the years as well. I mention this because, I've always felt that Vick (and McNabb) is almost thrown when a D doesn't chase after him and stays in their lanes and such. It takes away where he is best, ad libbing and all. I'd like to see Vick do well in that instance.He was vilified while in Atlanta. They had revolving doors for coaches and receivers while he was there, and he was still winning games and leading his team deep into the playoffs. His receivers dropped balls left and right, but the blame was placed at his feet b/c he throws "an uncatchable ball". Looks like DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin and LeSean McCoy don't have any trouble catching his balls.
Dought Man
Footballguy
ANY team would take Vick over Peyton right now to be their starting QB. KRS is 100% correct.
Vick has shown to be great in big games over his career, with all of his playoff success, marching his teams deep into the playoffs on a number of occasions. He also is an Iron Man out there.. rarely, if ever gets dinged up.
Vick is on the top of the mountain. Only he can knock himself off.
Vick has shown to be great in big games over his career, with all of his playoff success, marching his teams deep into the playoffs on a number of occasions. He also is an Iron Man out there.. rarely, if ever gets dinged up.
Vick is on the top of the mountain. Only he can knock himself off.
Shutout
Footballguy
Vick has come a long way and he deserves credit for making ammends but he is also the person who put himself in the situation that made it neccessary to come back from and that is a large part of what makes this an absurd post.
Peyton Manning is the icon of the current NFL. There would be very few owners that would want all the things that come with Vick over all the things that come with Manning. Manning is known as one of the hardest working, and all around best QBs, period. The fact that he IS Payton Manning is the only reason the Colts are still an every-week legitimate team. How many other teams could lose half their starting defense, their All-Pro TE, their top two RBs, half theor WR corps, and still go out and play with anyone? Few if any.
And all the talk about "Vick is scary when the game is on the line"...Please. It is probably inarguable fact that Peyton with the ball will 47 seconds left=everyone watching that game was holding their breath because they thought the Colts would score.
I really don't wan't to knock Vick because I am really happy for him turning his life around but that is the fact that needs to be underscored. It is only because he has done all these bonehead things and came back that this is really a discussion with these two. Without all the drama, Vick is simply a journeyman QB that has risen to have one fantastic little stretch at this point in his career. He is no different than Rich gannon having his nice little run or the year that Derek Anderson looked lights out for a brief period. But at the end of the day, that's all it is; a nice little story about a player that is playing well right now.
But compared to Peyton Manning, there simply is none. Only one of these players has won a Super Bowl, has been a model of consistency (on and off the field), has maintained his team as a legitimate contender for over a decade, is a Hall of Famer 5 years to the second that he retires, and does/has doen so many things that you can't even really start to mention them. the other guy is flashy, gets nice FF points (not that Manning doesn't) and is enjoying a nice run right now, but lots of guys have been nice for one year. Scott Mitchell was nice for one year. Tyler thigpen was relevant for one year. This comparison is not one until Vick does half the things that Manning has already done.
Twenty years from now, Mike Vick's story will be a nice "30 for 30" documentary and will be interesting. It might even include a nice ending with several good years and a championship. But Peyton Manning's documentary will be how every great QB that we ever see in this league for the rest of our lives will be compared to Peyton Manning. It will be Manning that is the discussion for greatest QB of all time in all the "top 10" shows.
Peyton Manning is THE bar that is set for all others in the current generation. Mike Vick is a good story now and, sad but true, even if he finishes his career brilliantly, and wins a couple of titles or whatnot, the best his career will ever be is one that end with "What if..."
Peyton Manning is the icon of the current NFL. There would be very few owners that would want all the things that come with Vick over all the things that come with Manning. Manning is known as one of the hardest working, and all around best QBs, period. The fact that he IS Payton Manning is the only reason the Colts are still an every-week legitimate team. How many other teams could lose half their starting defense, their All-Pro TE, their top two RBs, half theor WR corps, and still go out and play with anyone? Few if any.
And all the talk about "Vick is scary when the game is on the line"...Please. It is probably inarguable fact that Peyton with the ball will 47 seconds left=everyone watching that game was holding their breath because they thought the Colts would score.
I really don't wan't to knock Vick because I am really happy for him turning his life around but that is the fact that needs to be underscored. It is only because he has done all these bonehead things and came back that this is really a discussion with these two. Without all the drama, Vick is simply a journeyman QB that has risen to have one fantastic little stretch at this point in his career. He is no different than Rich gannon having his nice little run or the year that Derek Anderson looked lights out for a brief period. But at the end of the day, that's all it is; a nice little story about a player that is playing well right now.
But compared to Peyton Manning, there simply is none. Only one of these players has won a Super Bowl, has been a model of consistency (on and off the field), has maintained his team as a legitimate contender for over a decade, is a Hall of Famer 5 years to the second that he retires, and does/has doen so many things that you can't even really start to mention them. the other guy is flashy, gets nice FF points (not that Manning doesn't) and is enjoying a nice run right now, but lots of guys have been nice for one year. Scott Mitchell was nice for one year. Tyler thigpen was relevant for one year. This comparison is not one until Vick does half the things that Manning has already done.
Twenty years from now, Mike Vick's story will be a nice "30 for 30" documentary and will be interesting. It might even include a nice ending with several good years and a championship. But Peyton Manning's documentary will be how every great QB that we ever see in this league for the rest of our lives will be compared to Peyton Manning. It will be Manning that is the discussion for greatest QB of all time in all the "top 10" shows.
Peyton Manning is THE bar that is set for all others in the current generation. Mike Vick is a good story now and, sad but true, even if he finishes his career brilliantly, and wins a couple of titles or whatnot, the best his career will ever be is one that end with "What if..."
switz
Footballguy
You forgot to add:
Insein
Footballguy
I was going to say...You forgot to add:
tonyftony716
Footballguy
It makes you wonder how much money Vick will command in the offseason? Vick can cash in big time if he continues like this. The Eagles might be able to get a slight hometown discount because of how they helped out Vick and , lets face it, because they have a ton of talent on the offensive side of the ball who are all young and will be around for a while. The question then becomes of what they do with Kolb. It would be unfair to his growth as a QB to keep him as Vick's backup next season. He his signed through 2011. The next 8 weeks are big for the Eagles and Vick. The Eagles would be in negotiations now if it wasn't for a potential lockout next season.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
At this rate the Eagles will franchise him and then hope to work out an extension.It makes you wonder how much money Vick will command in the offseason? Vick can cash in big time if he continues like this. The Eagles might be able to get a slight hometown discount because of how they helped out Vick and , lets face it, because they have a ton of talent on the offensive side of the ball who are all young and will be around for a while. The question then becomes of what they do with Kolb. It would be unfair to his growth as a QB to keep him as Vick's backup next season. He his signed through 2011. The next 8 weeks are big for the Eagles and Vick. The Eagles would be in negotiations now if it wasn't for a potential lockout next season.
footballnerd
Footballguy
who says the MVP has to be a QB?
DoubleG
Footballguy
Mods, please move this thread to the FFA.
When people start blabbering about Vick being more "resilient" than Manning, who is 2nd only to Favre in terms of games started at QB and the argument over who is "better" turns to a discussion about the treatment of animals and links to other NFL players who committed crimes, the thread has decended into something about anything BUT football. There's just all kinds of stupid going on here.
TIA.
When people start blabbering about Vick being more "resilient" than Manning, who is 2nd only to Favre in terms of games started at QB and the argument over who is "better" turns to a discussion about the treatment of animals and links to other NFL players who committed crimes, the thread has decended into something about anything BUT football. There's just all kinds of stupid going on here.
TIA.
If I had to take a player to insert into my team to finish the season this year it would be very difficult to pick Vick over Manning. Vick plays in a way that gets him hurt. Manning plays in a way to that wins games. Manning is the better QB, in my opinion. His trouble this year is losing players around him.
If Vick stays healthy for remainder of the year he could be the NFL MVP. Foster could easily give Vick a run for the title. Vick is a great story though.
For those that subscribe to the "most important to their team" please insert the backup QB into their respective offenses. Manning is a clear winner by that criteria. If manning goes down the Colts are toast.
If Vick stays healthy for remainder of the year he could be the NFL MVP. Foster could easily give Vick a run for the title. Vick is a great story though.
For those that subscribe to the "most important to their team" please insert the backup QB into their respective offenses. Manning is a clear winner by that criteria. If manning goes down the Colts are toast.
5Rings
Lurker
Don't be stupid dude. Roddy was awful his first two years. In fact, his rookie year the coaching staff was questioning if he was going to make it at all.Nice try.
Shlon
Footballguy
When Roddy White was admittedly lazy, partying, and eating Mcdonald's all day: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-thegameface120508
timschochet said:Vick received backlash because a large number of Americans have an aversion to cruelty to animals, especially to man's best friend. What is extraordinary about Vick is not the initial reaction he received but the fact that we are so willing as a society to forgive him so easily and move on. I would not have bet this was possible- I thought that animal rights groups and a good number of fans would protest and boycott any team that gave him a roster spot. I figured he would be persona non grata. But I was wrong, nobody batted an eyelash.Nefari said:I think you may be the slow one.. It's been made abundantly clear that the OP was referring to Ben
There were a lot of eyelashes batted. A not-insignificant number of fans swore off the team. Animal rights groups were somewhat mollified by an aggressive passification strategy employed by Vick, the Eagles, and Dungy...but were NOT completely silent at the beginning.
What does the O-line look like? Behind Philly's line...you gotta take Vick.But behind even an average line...Manning is the easy play. I love what Vick has done, but putting him in the same tier as P. Manning is silly. E. Manning is a different storyMIMN said:
TommyGilmore
Footballguy
Everything you post is a fishing trip.
nysportsfan
Footballguy
Cutting through the BS, Vick is such an advantage when healthy. Guy looks like he's fresh out of college with better football acumen. Top 5 moving forward?
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