Mike Clay positional rankings for all 32 NFL teams (1 Viewer)

[Bracie Smathers]

Listing the top-ten, go to the link for the full graph of every team.

Mike Clay Positional rankings for all 32 NFL teams

1. Saints - 7.5 combined - 4.3 offense, 3.2 defense 
   
2. Patriots - 7.4 combined - 4.3 offense, 3.2 defense (Saints/Pats tied because Off/Def units equal same score as the Saints)
   
3. Colts - 7.4 combined - 4.2 offense, 3.2 defense
   
4. Bears - 7.2 combined - 3.3 offense, 3.9 defense
   
5. Rams - 7.1 combined - 4.0 offense, 3.0 defense (same combined score so assuming he has Rams/Chargers tied)
   
6. Chargers 7.1- combined - 3.9 offense, 3.2 defense
   
7. Eagles - 6.9 combined - 4.0 offense, 2.9 defense (Eagles Falcons tie combined score)
   
8. Falcons - 6.9 combined - 4.0 offense, 2.9 defense
   
9. Steelers - 6.8 combined - 4.0 offense, 2.9 defense (Steelers/Packers/Browns tie combined unit pts)
   
10. (tie) Packers/Browns - 6.8 combined - 4.1 offense, 2.7 defense
    

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Cut off here to show top ten/eleven teams.  Go to link to see full graph and how every unit was ranked to get the above numbers.

Could argue some of his rankings and these 'should' change after the draft but its a 'decent' snapshot of how things rank right now.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I wish I could simply cut-and-paste the graph to show individual unit grades because that is interesting.

Of the top ten/eleven teams listed you can see some teams carry the lowest unit grades at one position meaning that if they could improve that one unit in the draft or via trade/free agent signing that one low grade would improve enough to boost their combined grade.

Of the top ten/eleven teams with the highest combined scores these teams had one unit with the lowest grade in the league:

Patriots - WR unit grade 2.2 is the lowest in the league.  Even though they pick last in the first round they have a lot of draft capital to move-up or make a trade to improve this low grade to move them up to the highest combined total score of any team.

Eagles - RB unit grade of 2.0 is the lowest in the league and that is an easier fix than finding a WR to start in a demanding Tom Brady led offense but the Eagles also have a low grade of 3.0 at CB but they pick lower near the end of the first round and that is a tougher position to expect early results.  The low score at RB could get a serious boost before/during/or after the draft so anticipate their overall combined score to improve.

Browns - lowest score of 2.0 at the safety position but after the OBJ trade they lack a 1st round pick so it might be harder for them to improve this low grade.

Checking out other low grades of top ten/eleven teams the Chargers have low grades of 2.7 at DT and 3.0 at OL.  This draft is deep at DT and has some good OL prospects so they could seriously improve at least one of those low scores.  

Thought the positional grades were interesting alone but even more interesting to see how individual unit grades link to the draft and what teams could be targeting.

 

[travdogg]

I have the same top-5, albeit in a different order, Rams/Pats/Saints/Colts/Bears. The Packers are the only top-10 team I'd agree on.

I don't think I'd have Atlanta in my top-15, them and San Fran seem the highest to me. As for the lowest, I assume this will be a strong minority opinion, but I think Denver is extremely underrated, they were a playoff caliber team last year, that had the league's worst coaching, and then injury woes. I think they are my pick to win the AFC West, behind an elite defense and strong ground game, much like 2015, though I won't go as far as to call them a Super Bowl team.

 

[kittenmittens]

I really agree with his QB unit grades.  I assume the starter is most of the rating. 

Notables for QBs:

Dalton and Flacco are a league worst 2.  Tied with Miami and Washington. 

Foles in Jax is rated a 4 - tied with Eli

Rosen is a 4

Darnold is a 5

Allen is a 2

Trubisky is a 5

Dak and Goff are rated 6

Wentz is a 7

Notables for teams:

Worst rated teams - MIA, NYG, WAS, OAK

Best rated - NE, CHI, NO, STL

 

[travdogg]

I really agree with his QB unit grades.  I assume the starter is most of the rating. 

Notables for QBs:

Dalton a league worst 2. 

I'm not his biggest fan or anything, but Andy Dalton being tied for the worst starting QB is a pretty big middle finger to a guy who has never been worse than league average, with occasional spurts of pro bowl caliber play. 

 

[Tau837]

His Chargers unit grades look about right to me. However, I don't agree with how he aggregates the rankings. He shows the offenses ranked in this order:

1. Chiefs
   
2. Saints
   
3. Pats
   
4. Colts
   
5. Packers
   
6. Browns
   
7. Rams
   
8. Falcons
   
9. Eagles
   
10. Steelers
    
11. Panthers
    
12. Chargers
    

No way the Panthers and Steelers offenses should be above the Chargers. Last year, the Chargers were #6 in points and #11 in yards. #11 doesn't look great, but it was intentional offensive tempo/philosophy; they were #3 in yards per play. This despite losing TE Henry for the entire season and Gordon for 4 games.

Not sure if the problem is specific grades or weighting, but the Chargers should be at least a few spots higher on offense, which implies higher overall as well.

 

[Milkman]

No way Wentz is better than Goff. Like the only thing he does better than Goff is escape pressure. 

 

[King of the Jungle]

No way Wentz is better than Goff. Like the only thing he does better than Goff is escape pressure. 

I think there is a chance that he may be. Played well while on the field, the injuries may skew our outlook. I feel like Goff may be the system dependent of the potentially “good+” QBs in the league. Swap him to another team/coach/system and I not sure we see anything we like. 

 

[travdogg]

I think there is a chance that he may be. Played well while on the field, the injuries may skew our outlook. I feel like Goff may be the system dependent of the potentially “good+” QBs in the league. Swap him to another team/coach/system and I not sure we see anything we like. 

Could the same not be said of Wentz? He wasn't that far ahead of a journeyman-ish QB in Foles in Philly's system.

If Goff had gotten McVay right away, and not had a year of Fisher, would he be different? 

 

[Bri]

Right on the Titans, Mariota a 3.5 is honest and true....guy has to step up. I don't think anyone realizes how good their D is but he's got them third. If MM8 could get it together....

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Clay put out his positional grades a few days ago, I posted them yesterday before the Gronk retirement.  

Before Gronkowski retired he had the Patriots receivers rated the worst in the league, look at their receiver corps today.

Clink link to see graph of Pats WR/TEs.

-----------------------------------------------------

Here is what the Patriots' offense looks like without Rob Gronkowski. Clearly one of the worst WR/TE situations in the league right now.

Mike Clay‏Verified account @MikeClayNFL

Here is what the Patriots' offense looks like without Rob Gronkowski. Clearly one of the worst WR/TE situations in the league right now. (early 2019 #clayprojections shown)

3:12 PM - 24 Mar 2019

 

[daveR]

I think it'd be fun to make the chart drag-n-drop, where you could put a unit anywhere along a scale of "incredible" to "abysmal" and have the arithmetic done behind the app.

 

[kittenmittens]

I'm not his biggest fan or anything, but Andy Dalton being tied for the worst starting QB is a pretty big middle finger to a guy who has never been worse than league average, with occasional spurts of pro bowl caliber play. 

I agree.  Dalton is a 4 or a 3 at worst.  Even Flacco is better than a 2.... Either that or Miami and Washington should be 0 or 1..

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Here is what the Patriots' offense looks like without Rob Gronkowski. Clearly one of the worst WR/TE situations in the league right now.

Mike Clay‏Verified account @MikeClayNFL

Here is what the Patriots' offense looks like without Rob Gronkowski. Clearly one of the worst WR/TE situations in the league right now. (early 2019 #clayprojections shown)

3:12 PM - 24 Mar 2019

Michael Giardi‏Verified account @MikeGiardi

Plenty of time for Belichick/Caserio to shape the roster but more proof we aren't the only ones who recognize the need at WR (and now TE).

Michael Giardi added,

According to a league source, the #Patriots inquired about just about every available wide receiver - and some not available - over the last month, from Antonio Brown to Odell to the assortment of free agents they've missed on.

10:22 AM - 27 Mar 2019

 

[Anarchy99]

The Patriots more than any other team are a 24/7/365 operation. As I always say, to try to evaluate them in the off season before opening day is pretty pointless. 

Come September, they could draft, trade for, or sign receiving help. Picking up a player cut from another team is always an option. Maybe they have an idea Gordon will be able to play. 

Sure, if they had a game TODAY they would be up against it. But they have five and a half months to get their house in order. 

As a for instance, if they traded for AJ Green, drafted a TE early, and had Gordon come back, when factoring in their RBs, suddenly their situation wouldn’t look so dire. 

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Mike Clay's update positional rankings for every NFL team.

Their are changes since the last list.

Posting top-twelve in order, go to link for full list and unit scores.

-----------------------

Mike Clay updated positional rankings

Mike Clay Positional rankings for all 32 NFL teams  

1. Saints 
   
2. Rams 
   
3. Eagles 
   
4. Bears 
   
5. Patriots 
   
6. Chargers 
   
7. Colts
   
8. Browns 
   
9. Packers
   
10. Falcons
    
11. Chiefs 
    
12. Cowboys 
    

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[Slapdash]

Miami showing how tanking is done  

 

[travdogg]

Mike Clay's update positional rankings for every NFL team.

Their are changes since the last list.

Posting top-twelve in order, go to link for full list and unit scores.

-----------------------

Mike Clay updated positional rankings

Mike Clay Positional rankings for all 32 NFL teams  

1. Saints 
   
2. Rams 
   
3. Eagles 
   
4. Bears 
   
5. Patriots 
   
6. Chargers 
   
7. Colts
   
8. Browns 
   
9. Packers
   
10. Falcons
    
11. Chiefs 
    
12. Cowboys 
    

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Hmm, that is my exact top-5 going into the draft. Pretty much right where I have Dallas and KC as well. 

I'd say my biggest disagreements would be Cleveland and Atlanta. Just not ready to call the Browns a playoff team yet, we have no idea if Kitchens is a good coach, and that o-line and back 7 still have major issues. Falcons have similar issues, only with a much worse D-line, and maybe a slightly better secondary.

I think the Titans and Jaguars are top-12 teams. Titans just need to stay healthy, and the Jaguars boost from Bortles to Foles, even though he's only decent, is huge. That team quit about a month into last season simply because they didn't believe in their QB at all. Just having a competent guy is probably worth at least 4 wins. I think the AFC South might have 3 playoff teams.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

UPDATED rankings, post draft and free agency.

See how much your team improved low positional rankings after the draft.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

UPDATED MIKE CLAY positional rankings for every NFL team post draft

Mike Clay‏Verified account @MikeClayNFL 20h20 hours ago

And here are NFL Unit Grades updated to reflect the draft and recent roster moves #ClayProjections

 

[Deamon]

UPDATED rankings, post draft and free agency.

See how much your team improved low positional rankings after the draft.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

UPDATED MIKE CLAY positional rankings for every NFL team post draft

Mike Clay‏Verified account @MikeClayNFL 20h20 hours ago

And here are NFL Unit Grades updated to reflect the draft and recent roster moves #ClayProjections

No idea how the Lions are that high.  They're WAY above the Ravens and Seahawks?

 

[QuizGuy66]

Miami showing how tanking is done  

Dolphins have to do something about that secondary though.

-QG

 

[Bracie Smathers]

No idea how the Lions are that high.  They're WAY above the Ravens and Seahawks?

Positional grades.  Lamar Jackson and how the Ravens are building the offense runs counter to traditional way and I don't think Clay has adjusted his point system to account for that because if you look at the Raven TE, WR, alone it is poor but then if you try to score Lamar against standard NFL QBs he would score low but he is unique.

Take a look at his projected W/L records and you will see different results.

The W/L projections are interesting if you put them side-by-side with the positional rankings because I think you took positional rankings and figured he was projecting wins off of total points but that isn't the case, especially with the Lions.

---------------------------------------

CLAY W/L PROJECTIONS

Mike Clay‏Verified account @MikeClayNFL May 9

Updated 2019 NFL #ClayProjections - including projected standings, strength of schedule, playoff seeds and 2020 draft order

 

[Bri]

Clay put out his positional grades a few days ago, I posted them yesterday before the Gronk retirement.  

Before Gronkowski retired he had the Patriots receivers rated the worst in the league, look at their receiver corps today.

Clink link to see graph of Pats WR/TEs.

-----------------------------------------------------

Here is what the Patriots' offense looks like without Rob Gronkowski. Clearly one of the worst WR/TE situations in the league right now.

Mike Clay‏Verified account @MikeClayNFL

Here is what the Patriots' offense looks like without Rob Gronkowski. Clearly one of the worst WR/TE situations in the league right now. (early 2019 #clayprojections shown)

3:12 PM - 24 Mar 2019

The Titans added a (possible) HOFer at Edge and he didn't really bump up their grade. Is Wake old and done in his mind?

I get it that the Titans WR production is low. It's a painful reality for me. I think I'd rate them higher though, especially after adding Brown and Humphries and losing none at WR. 

Love Clay, just picking nits

 

[TripItUp]

Clay is a top 5 fantasy analyst.  I read everything he does.  

in season I particularly like his WR/DB matchup series.   

 

[Bracie Smathers]

The Titans added a (possible) HOFer at Edge and he didn't really bump up their grade. Is Wake old and done in his mind?

I get it that the Titans WR production is low. It's a painful reality for me. I think I'd rate them higher though, especially after adding Brown and Humphries and losing none at WR. 

Love Clay, just picking nits

You've got a legit nit to pick in one sense, he goes back-and-forth to award points for EDGE position to DE/EDGE or LB/EDGE positions.  I think he tries to make a designation between 3/4 and 4/3 base schemes and awards points to where the pass rush will come from.

In the case of the Titans they have Cameron Wake and Harold Landry listed as OLBers and two starting inside LBers so they run a 3/4 and not much at DE so he gives high LB points but low EDGE points which go to the 3/4 DEs who provide little pass rush.  If you notice the Titans have the highest LB positional grade out of all but one team ranked ahead of them, Chicago who have Kalil Mack listed as an OLB/

The team listed one spot below the Titans, Dallas has the highest LB positional grade but they run a 4/3 and have DeMarcus Lawrene and Robert Quinn at DE and get an 'OK/Acce[table' grade at EDGE but they are loaded at every LB position with Sean Lee, Jaylon Smith, and Vander Esch as starting LBers so they get the second highest LBer grade in the league.

I see your point but only four teams in the league have higher LB grades than the Titans and only two Chicago and Dallas had higher EDGE AND LB grades.

Basically the Titans got awarded the points to the LB position since they have solid OLBers.  They don't get double points at OLB AND EDGE for Landry and Wake just as Dallas gets awarded at LB for Lee/Jaylon/Vander and also get points for Lawrence at DE/EDGE.  The back-and-forth is confusing but the points even out.

 

[Tau837]

No way the Panthers and Steelers offenses should be above the Chargers. Last year, the Chargers were #6 in points and #11 in yards. #11 doesn't look great, but it was intentional offensive tempo/philosophy; they were #3 in yards per play. This despite losing TE Henry for the entire season and Gordon for 4 games.

Not sure if the problem is specific grades or weighting, but the Chargers should be at least a few spots higher on offense, which implies higher overall as well.

He is still underrating the Chargers offense, ranking it #12.

Also, his ranking is way too low at S for the Chargers. He has them with the 13th highest grade. All Pro James is worth more than that by himself, and the team added FS Adderley, the best FS in the draft. Correcting that grade would have the Chargers defense as 2nd best, behind only Chicago, which seems about right IMO.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

He is still underrating the Chargers offense, ranking it #12.

Also, his ranking is way too low at S for the Chargers. He has them with the 13th highest grade. All Pro James is worth more than that by himself, and the team added FS Adderley, the best FS in the draft. Correcting that grade would have the Chargers defense as 2nd best, behind only Chicago, which seems about right IMO.

The top weighted position on offense was QB at 21% and the Chargers only held a slight margin over Pittsburgh at 3.3 to 3.0, a negligible point margin but the Steelers hold a distinct advantage on the offensive line which has the 2nd highest weighted position at 13%.

Chargers O-Line - LT: Russell Okung, Trent Scott, LG: Dan Feeney, Spencer Drango, C: Mike Pouncey, Scott Quessenberry, Cole Toner, RG: Michael Schofield, Forrest Lampm RT: Sam Tevi

Steelers O-Line - LT: Alejandro Villanueva, Chukwuma Okorafor, LG: Ramon Foster, BJ Finney, Zach Banner, C: Maurkice Pouncey, Patrick Morris, JC Hassenauer, RG: David Decastro, Derwin Gray, RT: Matt Feiler, Jerald Hawkins, RJ Prince

Chargers held a huge advantage at TE 3.0 to only 1.4 but the TE position was weighted at only 6%. So even though the Chargers hold advantages all skill positions their offensive line weighs them down in his scoring system.

Per safety.  I agree with you but he does not give high grades to 2nd year or rookies.  See Browns with only the 'average' score of 2.0 at CB even with Denzel Ward and after drafting Greedy Williams so he does not give high points for 2nd year players or rookies on a consistent basis, he's not picking on the Chargers from what I see.

 

[Bri]

You've got a legit nit to pick in one sense, he goes back-and-forth to award points for EDGE position to DE/EDGE or LB/EDGE positions.  I think he tries to make a designation between 3/4 and 4/3 base schemes and awards points to where the pass rush will come from.

In the case of the Titans they have Cameron Wake and Harold Landry listed as OLBers and two starting inside LBers so they run a 3/4 and not much at DE so he gives high LB points but low EDGE points which go to the 3/4 DEs who provide little pass rush.  If you notice the Titans have the highest LB positional grade out of all but one team ranked ahead of them, Chicago who have Kalil Mack listed as an OLB/

The team listed one spot below the Titans, Dallas has the highest LB positional grade but they run a 4/3 and have DeMarcus Lawrene and Robert Quinn at DE and get an 'OK/Acce[table' grade at EDGE but they are loaded at every LB position with Sean Lee, Jaylon Smith, and Vander Esch as starting LBers so they get the second highest LBer grade in the league.

I see your point but only four teams in the league have higher LB grades than the Titans and only two Chicago and Dallas had higher EDGE AND LB grades.

Basically the Titans got awarded the points to the LB position since they have solid OLBers.  They don't get double points at OLB AND EDGE for Landry and Wake just as Dallas gets awarded at LB for Lee/Jaylon/Vander and also get points for Lawrence at DE/EDGE.  The back-and-forth is confusing but the points even out.

excellent points.

Maybe we need Clay to do a nickel ranking since teams are so often in nickel now?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

excellent points.

Maybe we need Clay to do a nickel ranking since teams are so often in nickel now?

True dat.  Four and five wide sets make the slot corner valuable enough their could be a category unto itself with the way teams use TEs or big WRs in the slot to gain an advantage and how teams counter that and are using high picks on slot corners like Minka Fitzpatrick.  Boundary corners still rule so I can't fault the system and Clay does a lot of work but it would be nice to see how top slot CBs or if teams really struggle in the D-backfield to defend in point format.

He also needs to try and address the type of unique advantage that a QB like Lamar Jackson brings instead of just dinging him as a passer.  Same with Josh Allen in Buffalo and we might see some big rush totals from Kyler Murray and/or a few other guys.  I'm not sure he's awarding enough for running-threat QBs but on the whole he does a ton of really nice work where everything is one spot to compare/contrast.  Just great stuff IMHO.

 

[Tau837]

The top weighted position on offense was QB at 21% and the Chargers only held a slight margin over Pittsburgh at 3.3 to 3.0, a negligible point margin but the Steelers hold a distinct advantage on the offensive line which has the 2nd highest weighted position at 13%.

Chargers O-Line - LT: Russell Okung, Trent Scott, LG: Dan Feeney, Spencer Drango, C: Mike Pouncey, Scott Quessenberry, Cole Toner, RG: Michael Schofield, Forrest Lampm RT: Sam Tevi

Steelers O-Line - LT: Alejandro Villanueva, Chukwuma Okorafor, LG: Ramon Foster, BJ Finney, Zach Banner, C: Maurkice Pouncey, Patrick Morris, JC Hassenauer, RG: David Decastro, Derwin Gray, RT: Matt Feiler, Jerald Hawkins, RJ Prince

Chargers held a huge advantage at TE 3.0 to only 1.4 but the TE position was weighted at only 6%. So even though the Chargers hold advantages all skill positions their offensive line weighs them down in his scoring system.

Per safety.  I agree with you but he does not give high grades to 2nd year or rookies.  See Browns with only the 'average' score of 2.0 at CB even with Denzel Ward and after drafting Greedy Williams so he does not give high points for 2nd year players or rookies on a consistent basis, he's not picking on the Chargers from what I see.

Results are results.

• The Chargers offense was #11 in total yards last season despite intentionally running a conservative offense with a low number of plays (5th fewest in NFL).
  
• They were #3 in yards per play and #6 in points.
  
• All of those ranks are higher than where Clay has their offense - #12.
  
• That was without starting TE Henry and with Gordon missing 4 games and playing at less than 100% in others.
  
• The only notable offseason loss on offense was #3 WR Tyrell Williams, but that is offset by the return of Henry and emergence of Mike Williams.
  
• That was with the exact same OL as is expected to start this season for the Chargers.
  
  PFF ranked the Chargers pass blocking (whole unit, not just offense) as tied for #29-30, which seems correct and is in line with Clay's ranking. But PFF ranked the Chargers run blocking (whole unit) as #17. I'm not sure about that, intuitively I would have them at least slightly lower, but there is no doubt that the OL is better at run blocking than pass blocking... they did average 4.7 ypc. IMO Clay should have the OL ranked at least a few spots higher.
  
• That was with a rookie 6th rounder (Tevi)  playing most of the season at RT and a second year 3rd rounder (Feeney) at LG. Both guys could improve. We could also see 2017 2nd round pick Lamp make an impact on the line this season.
  

Anyway, IMO his rankings or his weighting or both are off, plain and simple.

Regarding not giving high grades to 2nd year or rookies, that isn't really true. Look at the grade for Mahomes. You mentioned Vander Esch contributing to a high grade earlier in this thread. That was just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others. Bottom line, grading the Chargers' safeties down because James is  a second year player when  he made 1st team All Pro is invalid. Heck, James not only made 1st team All Pro at S, he also made 2nd team All Pro at DB.

 

[Tau837]

excellent points.

Maybe we need Clay to do a nickel ranking since teams are so often in nickel now?

He graded the Chargers as #1 at CB, and I have to assume he accounted for nickel CB Des King in that grade. So I believe he is accounting for nickel CBs.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Results are results.

• The Chargers offense was #11 in total yards last season despite intentionally running a conservative offense with a low number of plays (5th fewest in NFL).
  
• They were #3 in yards per play and #6 in points.
  
• All of those ranks are higher than where Clay has their offense - #12.
  
• That was without starting TE Henry and with Gordon missing 4 games and playing at less than 100% in others.
  
• The only notable offseason loss on offense was #3 WR Tyrell Williams, but that is offset by the return of Henry and emergence of Mike Williams.
  
• That was with the exact same OL as is expected to start this season for the Chargers.
  
  PFF ranked the Chargers pass blocking (whole unit, not just offense) as tied for #29-30, which seems correct and is in line with Clay's ranking. But PFF ranked the Chargers run blocking (whole unit) as #17. I'm not sure about that, intuitively I would have them at least slightly lower, but there is no doubt that the OL is better at run blocking than pass blocking... they did average 4.7 ypc. IMO Clay should have the OL ranked at least a few spots higher.
  
• That was with a rookie 6th rounder (Tevi)  playing most of the season at RT and a second year 3rd rounder (Feeney) at LG. Both guys could improve. We could also see 2017 2nd round pick Lamp make an impact on the line this season.
  

Anyway, IMO his rankings or his weighting or both are off, plain and simple.

Regarding not giving high grades to 2nd year or rookies, that isn't really true. Look at the grade for Mahomes. You mentioned Vander Esch contributing to a high grade earlier in this thread. That was just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others. Bottom line, grading the Chargers' safeties down because James is  a second year player when  he made 1st team All Pro is invalid. Heck, James not only made 1st team All Pro at S, he also made 2nd team All Pro at DB.

Results are the results and the Patriots have ultimate score board on the league because they won it all but positional grades are positional grades and the Chargers O-Line isn't good and it got a low score.  High scores for every skill position but a low O-Line score is correct, you can argue fairness of how he weights the final offensive score but I find no fault in giving the Bolts a low O-Line score or giving them high skill positional scores.

Mahomes is entering his third year, Leighton was named to the Pro Bowl and won the job over a Pro Bowl LBer who was moved outside.  They have Pro Bowl talent at every LBer position, its a fair grade.  Derwin is a hybrid and not only do the Bolts have the highest CB grade in the entire league they have the 2nd highest LBer grade of the top-six teams so Derwin's grade gets added to the corners and LBers because he is a hybrid who plays all over the field.  Nasir hasn't done anything just like every rookie and that is reflected in the score just as it is with other rookies like Greedy Williams who made zero impact on Clay's CB grade for the Browns.  ZERO so he is not picking on the Chargers, he is consistent in not giving rookies points.

 

[Tau837]

High scores for every skill position but a low O-Line score is correct, you can argue fairness of how he weights the final offensive score but I find no fault in giving the Bolts a low O-Line score or giving them high skill positional scores.

Agree at a high level that high positional scores and low OL scores are fair. I will agree to disagree on the weighting and overall ranking.

Derwin is a hybrid and not only do the Bolts have the highest CB grade in the entire league they have the 2nd highest LBer grade of the top-six teams so Derwin's grade gets added to the corners and LBers because he is a hybrid who plays all over the field.  Nasir hasn't done anything just like every rookie and that is reflected in the score just as it is with other rookies like Greedy Williams who made zero impact on Clay's CB grade for the Browns.  ZERO so he is not picking on the Chargers, he is consistent in not giving rookies points.

James is a SS. It doesn't matter that he plays all over the field. Other SSs do that as well.

He doesn't play CB. The Chargers have established starters at CB (Hayward, Williams/Davis) and an established Pro Bowl nickel corner (King). Those are the reasons for the high CB grade.

He doesn't play LB, unless you want to label him as doing that when the Chargers have 7 DBs on the field. But that is 7 DBs, not a mix of LBs and DBs, so that is just a label. Phillips is their established dime LB, so James doesn't play LB in dime.

I would be extremely surprised if Clay has James contributing to CB and LB grades at all. That doesn't make sense.

The Chargers LB grade is because they signed Davis and get Perryman, White, and Brown back from injury, plus drafted a solid depth player in Tranquill.

As for Adderley, I get the notion that rookies are unproven until they aren't. But I would think there would be some credit given just for taking Addae out of the lineup. He was the worst starting FS in the NFL last season and probably cost the Chargers 2 of their 5 losses, which cost them the division and #1 seed in the AFC.

Again, we can agree to disagree on the safety grade, which is simply off base. Mistakes happen to the best of us, including Clay.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

He doesn't play CB...  He doesn't play LB,

He does play corner and he does play LBer.

Chargers S Derwin James named PFF's Defensive Rookie of the Year

...What made James so special in his rookie season was his ability to do it all across the field, something we saw during his time at Florida State and something that clearly represents the shift in today’s prototypical safety in the NFL. In total, James lined up deep safety, a box safety, an outside linebacker, an inside linebacker, outside cornerback and as a slot cornerback, all on multiple occasions, and in multiple games. He had no trouble rushing the passer, stopping the run or covering outside receivers just the same as he did with smaller, shiftier slot receivers.

He was a threat in coverage just as much as he was a threat when he rushed the passer, recording near-elite grades in both categories this season. James’ 89.7 coverage grade finished third among his peers while his 86.0 pass-rush grade was the second-best among safeties who rushed the passer at least 30 times in 2018.

Derwin James say's he has played every position other than NT and MLB and says he has split time at nickel and outside corner.

Derwin James is redefining the safety position 

... According to James, he has played every position in the Chargers defense except middle linebacker and nose tackle. 

...he has split between nickel corner, outside corner

...Positional splits like that just don’t happen. If you remember, Cardinals QB Josh Rosen said James is “a linebacker and corner in one player.”

So because the offense can’t key on James, it’s wise to deploy him from different positions. 

 

[Bri]

He graded the Chargers as #1 at CB, and I have to assume he accounted for nickel CB Des King in that grade. So I believe he is accounting for nickel CBs.

Probably so, but the nickel set. The 3-4 teams go to two LBs, some hybrid on the ends, with a couple tackles. 

The Titans NT, for example, only plays like 20 percent of the plays but with this "base defense" theory, he'd be part of this.

I think maybe Clay needs to see which team plays which defensive set the most, grade that set, then rank the defenses.

 

[Tau837]

He does play corner and he does play LBer.

Chargers S Derwin James named PFF's Defensive Rookie of the Year

Derwin James say's he has played every position other than NT and MLB and says he has split time at nickel and outside corner.

Derwin James is redefining the safety position 

You are debating semantics. I agreed that he plays all over the field. That means he lines up deep, in the box, in coverage, and to rush the passer. But his position is SS. The first article you quoted even stated that he is representative of "the shift in today’s prototypical safety in the NFL."

The Chargers have (at least) 3 outside corners. James isn't one of them.

They have a Pro Bowl nickel corner. It isn't James.

They have 6 LBs I expect to make the final roster. James isn't one of them.

They have a starting FS. It isn't James.

They have edge rushers. James isn't one of them.

Just because James lines up in those positions at times does not change his actual position. Safeties in Bradley's defense have a lot of responsibilities, at least when he has safeties that can handle those responsibilities. In every single game this season, James will be listed as the starting SS. In every depth chart this season, James will be listed as the starting SS. He will not be listed as the starter at any other position.

I stand by my take that it makes zero sense to suggest Clay assigned some of James's value to the LB and CB positions. If you have actual evidence to the contrary, post it.

I also already agreed to disagree about this.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

You are debating semantics. I agreed that he plays all over the field. That means he lines up deep, in the box, in coverage, and to rush the passer. But his position is SS. The first article you quoted even stated that he is representative of "the shift in today’s prototypical safety in the NFL."

The Chargers have (at least) 3 outside corners. James isn't one of them.

They have a Pro Bowl nickel corner. It isn't James.

They have 6 LBs I expect to make the final roster. James isn't one of them.

They have a starting FS. It isn't James.

They have edge rushers. James isn't one of them.

Just because James lines up in those positions at times does not change his actual position. Safeties in Bradley's defense have a lot of responsibilities, at least when he has safeties that can handle those responsibilities. In every single game this season, James will be listed as the starting SS. In every depth chart this season, James will be listed as the starting SS. He will not be listed as the starter at any other position.

I stand by my take that it makes zero sense to suggest Clay assigned some of James's value to the LB and CB positions. If you have actual evidence to the contrary, post it.

I also already agreed to disagree about this.

So if Derwin James lines up at slot corner, plays slot corner. he's not listed as a corner so him lining up and playing corner means he is not playing corner because... ya know he's listed as a safety so his fine corner play shouldn't be credited as fine corner play.  It should be listed as fine safety play even though he actually is not lined up as a safety or making safety plays...

OBJ threw two passes last year, both went for TDs.  He did not get credit for catching two TD passes just because he is a WR.  He correctly got credit for throwing two passes, completing two passes, got credit for throwing 2 TDs.

We'll agree to disagree that a player who lines up and plays different positions should be credited for plays at the position where they line up and where they makes plays rather than having all production defaulted to the position listed to where they are supposed to play just because they are listed  as a starter at a different position.  

 

[Tau837]

So if Derwin James lines up at slot corner, plays slot corner. he's not listed as a corner so him lining up and playing corner means he is not playing corner because... ya know he's listed as a safety so his fine corner play shouldn't be credited as fine corner play.  It should be listed as fine safety play even though he actually is not lined up as a safety or making safety plays...

Safeties line up in coverage sometimes. That doesn't make them cornerbacks.

OBJ threw two passes last year, both went for TDs.  He did not get credit for catching two TD passes just because he is a WR.  He correctly got credit for throwing two passes, completing two passes, got credit for throwing 2 TDs.

Of course he got credit for throwing them. But no one claimed that he played QB, and I'm sure Mike Clay did not increase the Browns QB grade because they traded for OBJ. If you think this example proves anything, you are arguing against a strawman.

We'll agree to disagree

Good.