Mike Tomlin -vs- Josh McDaniels (1 Viewer)

[Scooby1974]

Just to get some discussion going I figured we could take a look at the leadership styles and effectiveness of Mike Tomlin as he has taken over for Mr. Bill Cower in Pittsburg -vs- Josh McDaniel's first month taking over for Mr. Mike Shanahan in Denver.

Tomlin comes in as an authority on Defense, kept the current D-Coordinator, didn't insist on doing it his way, and somehow proceeded to build trust and respect with his players and coaching staff while leading them to an NFL Championship.

So what can Josh McDaniels learn from Mr. Tomlin? (all smart ### comments like "take over an already solid team" aside.) What does he need to do to turn this thing around before Denver flat implodes?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Also, one of the first things Tomlin did after taking the job was going to dinner with Big Ben and having a long conversation about the team, how there are leaders who really respected Coach Wiz and Grimm. So really Tomlin had to replace a HOF coach and deal with two in-house guys who the players loved being passed over. Damn I love Tomlin.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Good thread.

Tomlin made the transition very smooth, and it took only two years for the Steelers to win a Super Bowl with him as head coach.

McDaniels has had the Denver job for less than two months and has already ####ed it up badly.

 

[Adebisi]

Roethlisberger was a far more mature person when Tomlin took over the Steelers than Cutler is with McDaniels taking over the Broncos. I continue to be amazed by the way Cutler is acting.

If Roethlisberger had acted the way Cutler is acting right now, the transition from Cowher to Tomlin would not have been nearly as smooth. I don't think anyone can really argue against that.

 

[Franchise Playa]

Good thread.Tomlin made the transition very smooth, and it took only two years for the Steelers to win a Super Bowl with him as head coach. McDaniels has had the Denver job for less than two months and has already ####ed it up badly.

Im sorry but Cutler is about equally to blame in my eyes....His reaction is overblown and it seems like- Cutler didn't like Shanny getting fired and is whining his way into a tradeI think the blame is equal.

 

[bcr8f]

These Bill Belichick assistants go to other teams acting like they know the way to the championship but as of now have all failed in the NFL. Weiss isn't doing much better in college.

They have been abrasive. Tomlin on the other hand didn't go to Pitt and dictate how things had to be done. He was a 4-3 coach yet he allowed the defense to stay as is.

Completely different attitude and treatment.

My analogy is

a tourist goes somewhere and says how the trees and mountains are more beautiful where he's from

VS Tomlin goes to the same place and compliments them on the how beautiful their area is.

I encounter both here and the 2nd fit in far better. It makes you want to ask "if your state is so much better why are you here?"

McDaniels and all the BB disciples need people skills.

 

[pollardsvision]

not to take anything away from mike tomlin, i love him, but this comparison is highly unfair.

tomlin came into to take over a team that still had much of it's super bowl champion core, including a QB who was a winner and leader from day 1 in the NFL.

mcdaniels is taking over a team that hasn't been able to make the playoffs for 3 straight years, playing in a very weak division. as we're now learning, he also has a whiny starting QB (as hard as it might be, imagine ben in the same situation. you know he'd handle it differently).

when you take over a team with a losing mentality, you generally shake things up more.

when you are handed the keys to a team with a winning mindset and system in place, you don't shake things up as much.

 

[Ghost Rider]

- Cutler didn't like Shanny getting fired and is whining his way into a trade

Cutler was initially aggravated about Shanny being fired, but then said he was excited to have a new head coach...until the b.s. with them trying to trade him and then lying to him happened.

McDaniels and all the BB disciples need people skills.

Then again, look who they learned from.

 

[Wyld Stallyns]

Roethlisberger was a far more mature person when Tomlin took over the Steelers than Cutler is with McDaniels taking over the Broncos. I continue to be amazed by the way Cutler is acting.If Roethlisberger had acted the way Cutler is acting right now, the transition from Cowher to Tomlin would not have been nearly as smooth. I don't think anyone can really argue against that.

You're comparing apples to oranges here... To say Tomlin's transition wouldn't have been as smooth if Roethlisberger had acted the way Cutler is acting is completely ignoring the differences in the two head coaches approaches: One coach didn't shake the boat, took his QB out to dinner and had a face to face conversation with and got everyone on the same page. The other coach tried to trade his QB, then lied to him about it, then admitted it and told him to deal with it because everyone is tradable and basically came in like a gunslinger on a highhorse.I think you're being shortsighted if you don't think Roethlisberger would've reacted the same way as Cutler is had Tomlin came in and been a lying dictator type. Especially after he'd just won a Superbowl... Heck, I don't see any reason to think Roeth wouldn't have reacted WORSE.

 

[Scooby1974]

not to take anything away from mike tomlin, i love him, but this comparison is highly unfair.tomlin came into to take over a team that still had much of it's super bowl champion core, including a QB who was a winner and leader from day 1 in the NFL.---This thread isn't about Jay -vs- Benmcdaniels is taking over a team that hasn't been able to make the playoffs for 3 straight years, playing in a very weak division. as we're now learning, he also has a whiny starting QB (as hard as it might be, imagine ben in the same situation. you know he'd handle it differently).---You are missing the point of the thread. Beyond that we don't know that Ben would handle it differently. Being on a winning and healthy team makes everything taste a little better.when you take over a team with a losing mentality, you generally shake things up more.---I can agree...but the question is HOW should things be "shaken up"?when you are handed the keys to a team with a winning mindset and system in place, you don't shake things up as much.

---maybe, maybe not. If you can't get over the hump something needs to change...and that "thing" could be big.

 

[FUBAR]

Just to get some discussion going I figured we could take a look at the leadership styles and effectiveness of Mike Tomlin as he has taken over for Mr. Bill Cower in Pittsburg -vs- Josh McDaniel's first month taking over for Mr. Mike Shanahan in Denver.Tomlin comes in as an authority on Defense, kept the current D-Coordinator, didn't insist on doing it his way, and somehow proceeded to build trust and respect with his players and coaching staff while leading them to an NFL Championship.So what can Josh McDaniels learn from Mr. Tomlin? (all smart ### comments like "take over an already solid team" aside.) What does he need to do to turn this thing around before Denver flat implodes?

IMO, the key difference has to do with player leadership. Aside from Tomlin being one of the best in the business already. Tomlin builds his connection with the team's leaders, but what leaders does McDaniels have to utilize? Champ? Maybe I just don't know the dynamics involved, but I don't see any player leader on the Broncos that can help lead the team. The Steelers have many veteran leaders who already knew how to win. Mac has certainly done wrong, but I won't throw him under the bus just yet. He does have an uphill climb, maybe Dawkins can help with that?

 

[HellToupee]

All McDaniels knows came from BB. Tomlin coached under different head coaches with different styles. McDaniels was immersed in the Belichekian culture and is following suit without the BB cache.

 

[Adebisi]

These Bill Belichick assistants go to other teams acting like they know the way to the championship but as of now have all failed in the NFL. Weiss isn't doing much better in college.

They have been abrasive. Tomlin on the other hand didn't go to Pitt and dictate how things had to be done. He was a 4-3 coach yet he allowed the defense to stay as is.

Completely different attitude and treatment.

My analogy is

a tourist goes somewhere and says how the trees and mountains are more beautiful where he's from

VS Tomlin goes to the same place and compliments them on the how beautiful their area is.

I encounter both here and the 2nd fit in far better. It makes you want to ask "if your state is so much better why are you here?"

McDaniels and all the BB disciples need people skills.

I think you're off the mark here. Crennel, from everything I've read, was loved by his players, staff, and pretty much the organization as a whole (maybe some Browns fans can step in and correct me if I'm wrong here?). I don't even think McDaniels has been "abrasive" - I think he just got caught up in a failed attempt at trying to make a move that he thought would improve his team.And of course, it's pointing out the obvious to say that Tomlin was stepping into a championship-caliber organization that didn't need any changes, whereas that has clearly not been the case for McDaniels, Mangini, Weis, or Crennel.

My analogy is

a tourist goes somewhere and says how the trees and mountains are more beautiful where he's from

VS Tomlin goes to the same place and compliments them on the how beautiful their area is.

Your analogy is dead-on: the "trees and mountains" were/are far more beautiful in New England than they were/are in Denver, Cleveland, New York (Jets), and Notre Dame. But they're pretty nice in Pittsburgh, too.

 

[Rockchild]

A key difference in these two situations, I believe, is leadership from ownership. The sense I get from the Steelers ownership is that they have certain expectations on how the team is run and standards that apply to players, coaches and management. I'm sure the defense situation was discussed and cleared up before Tomlin was hired. I can't think that Bowlen hired McDaniels having discussed and okayed the attempt to trade Cutler(not that Cutler is untradable).

 

[Fiddles]

steeler homer here so of course i love tomlin but to compare 2 years to 1 month makes no sense

he hasnt even coached a game yet

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Mike Shanahan is a HOF coach ?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Mike Shanahan is a HOF coach ?

Arguably, yes. An average record over his last three years in Denver doesn't take away from he did his first 11 years there.When it's all said and done, two Super Bowl wins and a winning percentage of .616 over 14 seasons is pretty awesome. I have a feeling that just about every other coach who averaged 10 wins in a season over a 14-year span is either already in the HoF or destined to make it.

 

[massraider]

Mike Shanahan is a HOF coach ?

Yes.

 

[Banger]

Roethlisberger was a far more mature person when Tomlin took over the Steelers than Cutler is with McDaniels taking over the Broncos. I continue to be amazed by the way Cutler is acting.If Roethlisberger had acted the way Cutler is acting right now, the transition from Cowher to Tomlin would not have been nearly as smooth. I don't think anyone can really argue against that.

If Tomlin tried to deal him and then lie about it he may have acted the same way. We'll never know...

 

[Adebisi]

Right or wrong, I don't think 2 Super Bowls should be enough to get a coach into the Hall of Fame.

 

[Banger]

Right or wrong, I don't think 2 Super Bowls should be enough to get a coach into the Hall of Fame.

that shouldn't be a sole litmus test. The length of time and the complete body of work should be taken into account but I think he's borderline.

 

[Bri]

pittsburgh was in far better shape and Tomlin was also not Grimm or Whisenhunt which really made alot of folks curious about him.

McDaniels is replacing Shanny who just wasn't able to work his magic anymore. He spent alot of effort trying to make a good player or find a gem by picking up players other teams were skittish about and....there's a whole lot of curious moves like all but reuniting an ineffective Browns DL, Clarett etc.

Shanny also lost alot of good players over the years including Al Wilson who just couldn't do it anymore after getting injured. While nowhere near the best player he lost, there's him and that C (Nalen?) that just sort of make a change seem due after all the previous ones.

Their pass D wasn't so good and they went thru a zillion runningbacks, how'd the Portis trade seem in 08?

I'd guess that Cowher's departure was one of the smoothest and had none of this stuff. It's a rough rough comparison here.

 

[Adebisi]

pittsburgh was in far better shape and Tomlin was also not Grimm or Whisenhunt which really made alot of folks curious about him.McDaniels is replacing Shanny who just wasn't able to work his magic anymore. He spent alot of effort trying to make a good player or find a gem by picking up players other teams were skittish about and....there's a whole lot of curious moves like all but reuniting an ineffective Browns DL, Clarett etc.Shanny also lost alot of good players over the years including Al Wilson who just couldn't do it anymore after getting injured. While nowhere near the best player he lost, there's him and that C (Nalen?) that just sort of make a change seem due after all the previous ones.Their pass D wasn't so good and they went thru a zillion runningbacks, how'd the Portis trade seem in 08?I'd guess that Cowher's departure was one of the smoothest and had none of this stuff. It's a rough rough comparison here.

Let's be fair here.Clarett was drafted with the last pick in the third round. That's not exactly a franchise-altering waste of a pick.Al Wilson and Tom Nalen retired. Big deal - every team in the league loses players to retirement.The Portis trade was, always has been, and always will be one-sided in Denver's favor.I agree that Tomlin pretty much walked into the perfect situation, but Shanahan dug his own ditch.

 

[Franknbeans]

let me cut to the chase...

Steelers > Patriots

 

[Scooby1974]

pittsburgh was in far better shape and Tomlin was also not Grimm or Whisenhunt which really made alot of folks curious about him.McDaniels is replacing Shanny who just wasn't able to work his magic anymore. He spent alot of effort trying to make a good player or find a gem by picking up players other teams were skittish about and....there's a whole lot of curious moves like all but reuniting an ineffective Browns DL, Clarett etc.Shanny also lost alot of good players over the years including Al Wilson who just couldn't do it anymore after getting injured. While nowhere near the best player he lost, there's him and that C (Nalen?) that just sort of make a change seem due after all the previous ones.Their pass D wasn't so good and they went thru a zillion runningbacks, how'd the Portis trade seem in 08?I'd guess that Cowher's departure was one of the smoothest and had none of this stuff. ---Don't guessIt's a rough rough comparison here.---I'm not asking you to compare situations.

Let's get back on topic.I'm not asking you guys to compare situations, I'm asking to compare LEADERSHIP styles and discuss what works BEST in this day and age. Is a man's leadership style dependent solely upon situation?

 

[CanadianNFLJunkie]

Mike Shanahan is a HOF coach ?

That's the first thing I thought. WHY? Considering the ownership gave him whatever he wanted, he sucked. Sure he had a good offensive mind but he's not one of the all time greatest coaches, no way.

 

[munchkin]

let me cut to the chase...Steelers > Patriots

Thanks for your insight on Shanahan, McDaniels and Tomlin.If, and it appears there were discussions regarding a trade for Cutler involving Cassel and draft picks, Bowlen was well aware of it. You don't trade the face, no matter how sour looking it is, of a franchise without discussions with the team's owner. Tomlin has done a solid job taking over a Super Bowl winning team. There were those who thought he might change from a 3-4 to a more familiar (to him) 4-3 defense. That never happened and the very good upper management continued to draft well and keep the pieces in place for one of the best defenses in football last year. McDaniels came in to a team with perhaps one of the worst defensive rosters in the NFL. The purging on that side of the ball was understandable. The new and inexperienced GM and management staff are in the process of upgrading the personnel on the defensive side of the ball, which is a tall task. In addition they are attempting to install the 3-4 defense which McDaniels and Mike Nolan are most familiar with. So that all makes sense.The problem is Cutler and his agent Bus Cook. Cook saw an opportunity to create havoc where there should be none. Yeah McDaniels was used to dealing with adults in Brady and Cassel so he made a mistake in wrongfully assuming that Cutler was one as well, I get that. But he should have known that agents like Cook are adept at manipulating the fans through the media (see Brett Favre). They should have known he would leak out any information he could to put the pressure on ownership to get Cutler a new contract and thus himself an early pay day. Cutler wants his money now; Cook wants his money now. The End Jan. 23, 2005 - New England 41, Pittsburgh 27 - AFC ChampionshipJan. 27, 2002 - New England 24, Pittsburgh 17 - AFC ChampionshipJan. 3, 1998 - Pittsburgh 7, New England 6 - AFC DivisionalJan. 5, 1997 - New England 28, Pittsburgh 3 - AFC Divisional

 

[beavers]

let me cut to the chase...Steelers > Patriots

The End Jan. 23, 2005 - New England 41, Pittsburgh 27 - AFC Championship*Jan. 27, 2002 - New England 24, Pittsburgh 17 - AFC Championship*Jan. 3, 1998 - Pittsburgh 7, New England 6 - AFC DivisionalJan. 5, 1997 - New England 28, Pittsburgh 3 - AFC Divisional

 

[Scooby1974]

Mike Shanahan is a HOF coach ?

That's the first thing I thought. WHY? Considering the ownership gave him whatever he wanted, he sucked. Sure he had a good offensive mind but he's not one of the all time greatest coaches, no way.

If you want to be petty, we'll just call him a 2 time superbowl winning coach. Please answer the question now, if you can.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Mike Shanahan is a HOF coach ?

That's the first thing I thought. WHY? Considering the ownership gave him whatever he wanted, he sucked.

Winning 62% of his games and two Super Bowls in 14 seasons sucks? Wow, you must have unusually high standards.

 

[Ozymandias]

Tomlin is a class act; McDaniels is an ###.

No need to embroider it any more.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Right or wrong, I don't think 2 Super Bowls should be enough to get a coach into the Hall of Fame.

Agreed, and it's not. Exhibit A is Tom Flores.Among coaches not yet eligible, Belichick and Parcells are locks. Dungy is not far behind them. I think Schottenheimer, Holmgren, Cowher and Shanahan are borderline candidates. Schottenheimer probably has the worst chance because of the lack of bling. You might think Cowher/Holmgren/Shanahan are locks, but it's worth noting that comparables like Reeves and Seifert are not in. Seifert has two rings and Reeves made four SBs, so they had good resumes. Someone like Knox is probably a half step below Holmgren/Cowher/Shanahan, but he hasn't received much consideration. I suspect those three will all be inducted one day, but I think they'll have have to wait a little bit.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Mike Shanahan is a HOF coach ?

That's the first thing I thought. WHY? Considering the ownership gave him whatever he wanted, he sucked. Sure he had a good offensive mind but he's not one of the all time greatest coaches, no way.

He's not one of the all time greatest coaches, but that's not the standard for the HOF. When I think all time greatest, I think top five or top ten. And obviously the Hall lets in a bunch more than that.

 

[Chase Stuart]

It's way too early to judge McDaniels' career. I understand the point of the thread but if McDaniels ruffles a ton of feathers and wins a Super Bowl he's done a good job. And that's all that counts.