Military Service (1 Viewer)

[DaBeers]

Before I start:  to all of those in the FFA who have served or are currently serving in the military - Thank You for your commitment and sacrifice!

I would appreciate a little input if you wouldn't mind:

Would you recommend the military as a path for a 19 year old (my son) who is a year out of high school, claims he knows what he wants to do (go to college, major in graphic design) but does not show the ambition to follow through?  He takes a non-chalant approach towards everything, and shows (or gives the impression) that "everything will be fine".

He has the book smarts when he applies himself but the problem is he is really unmotivated, disorganized, and probably lacks  the maturity needed for college.  His high school grades were not horrible (just under 3.0 on a 4.0 scale) but could have been better with organization and motivation.   He knew the subject matter but did not turn in assignments (or they were late), etc.  which had the obvious negative effects on his grades.

My wife and I have come to the conclusion that the military is his best option to instill discipline and structure while allowing him time to mature and become better prepared for life in general.   Maybe even save a little money and works towards college tuition assistance.   

It appears the Army even has a career field geared towards graphic design (his proclaimed interest) in post-military life, whether directly into the work force or as a lead into college.  

What say you all? Thanks in advance for your input.....

 

[cstu]

He takes a non-chalant approach towards everything, and shows (or gives the impression) that "everything will be fine".

Everything will be fine.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

Yes, but only the Air Force or Coast Guard.   Stay away from the others seriously.  I served in the Army for 6 years and I don't recommend it for anyone.  I think if a kid is pretty smart that the Air Force or Coast Guard would be a better fit. 

 

[Poppa]

Marines. End of discussion...

 

[rustycolts]

I served in the Army and proud that I did.It really helped me get myself together and I think it would help your son.Having said that I served in a different era I don't think I would want my son or daughter in now because of the times we live in.Way to dangerous.

 

[rustycolts]

Marines. End of discussion...

Army because even Marines need hero's. 

 

[DaBeers]

I served in the Army and proud that I did.It really helped me get myself together and I think it would help your son.Having said that I served in a different era I don't think I would want my son or daughter in now because of the times we live in.Way to dangerous.

LOL - I actually kind of said this same thing while voting during the primaries:  if Trump is elected, don't let your kids near the military 'cause he is gonna get us in so much s**t with his big mouth we won't know what to do....

And I say this knowing I will probably vote for Trump over Clinton or Sanders this November.

 

[Dexter]

Would you recommend the military as a path for a 19 year old

Yes.

If he likes it he can have a career for the rest of his life or set him up as long as he doesn't blow his money he makes in the service and uses the tuition plan on a real school and not a diploma mill I see too many vets go into.

If he hates it he'll realize he needs to get his #### together.

If he does enlist don't let him get married too soon. Many women pray on young enlisted men

 

[DaBeers]

Yes, but only the Air Force or Coast Guard.   Stay away from the others seriously.  I served in the Army for 6 years and I don't recommend it for anyone.  I think if a kid is pretty smart that the Air Force or Coast Guard would be a better fit. 

His buddy from the neighborhood graduated a year before him and is in the AF and is enjoying it... Stationed outside Denver,  has been home 2-3 times since finishing basic, lives pretty freely with some obvious limitations....

The Air Force does seem to be more suited for those who have tech fields in their sights, or am I mis-guided?

 

[Ignoramus]

Yes, but only the Air Force or Coast Guard.   Stay away from the others seriously.  I served in the Army for 6 years and I don't recommend it for anyone.  I think if a kid is pretty smart that the Air Force or Coast Guard would be a better fit. 

This, 100%.

Much better quality of life vs the Army, USMC or Navy.  Plus much lower chance of having someone shoot at him.  

 

[Cjw_55106]

This might be a little crazy, but.....have you asked him if he is even interested in any of this? 

 

[Johnny Rock]

Did you ask him what he wants to do? 

 

[fantasycurse42]

How exactly does tuition assistance work for those that serve anyways? Honestly, if you put your life on the line, you absolutely deserve free college. 

 

[DaBeers]

Did you ask him what he wants to do? 

Absolutely - he knows what he wants to do long term (and this is totally cool with mom and I) but he has no means to the end.  Furthermore, his current level of maturity and life skills do not add up to success in college.  Yet.    The he problem is he refuses to acknowledge his current limitations and low probability of success until he gains some more life experience, maturity, etc.

But I know others who have served and seen it help get their stuff together (as stated above by rusty colts).   I was wondering if anyone had the same opinion or experience that I could pass on, recommendations, etc.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Sometimes you have to trust them. Despite him not being to what you deem an acceptable maturity level, he managed a B average in high school. Why do you think this isn't possible in college? 

 

[Johnny Rock]

Absolutely - he knows what he wants to do long term (and this is totally cool with mom and I) but he has no means to the end.  Furthermore, his current level of maturity and life skills do not add up to success in college.  Yet.    The he problem is he refuses to acknowledge his current limitations and low probability of success until he gains some more life experience, maturity, etc.

But I know others who have served and seen it help get their stuff together (as stated above by rusty colts).   I was wondering if anyone had the same opinion or experience that I could pass on, recommendations, etc.

But what does HE want to do NOW?

Did he bring up the military or did you? He needs to be invested.  

 

[Henry Ford]

Community college.  Saves money while he gets his #### together, gives him a chance to get his feet wet without the pressure of a four year university, is likely to meet some kind of mentor if he's smart, and no one will shoot at him when Trump or Clinton get us into our next war.

 

[Charlie Steiner]

A related question: Any of you FBGs go the ROTC route?  If so, would you recommend that option?

 

[Abraham]

Community college.  Saves money while he gets his #### together, gives him a chance to get his feet wet without the pressure of a four year university, is likely to meet some kind of mentor if he's smart, and no one will shoot at him when Trump or Clinton get us into our next war.

This.  Different people find motivation at different ages.  19 and doesn't show any organization, ambition or motivation?  That sounds like most of the people I know that are twice his age. 

Does he have a job? Or does he just sit around playing xbox all day?

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Sounds like a pretty normal teenage kid to me, personally, unless you're leaving quite a bit out. Let him get a crappy job, take some classes at the local CC, and figure it out over time.  If he's genuinely interested in serving, great, support him in that.  Don't push him toward joining the military as a "need to give him a kick in the ###" type thing.  That's a really terrible idea IMO.

 

[DaBeers]

Sometimes you have to trust them. Despite him not being to what you deem an acceptable maturity level, he managed a B average in high school. Why do you think this isn't possible in college? 

The GPA is padded by classes that everyone does well in - when it came to the classes that mattered and required real work, he did not do as we'll.   This is what is concerning, but I get your point....

 

[DaBeers]

This.  Different people find motivation at different ages.  19 and doesn't show any organization, ambition or motivation?  That sounds like most of the people I know that are twice his age. 

Does he have a job? Or does he just sit around playing xbox all day?

Both.  It is not a 40 hr / week job that pays min wage.  Most of his free time is on XBox or his phone and sleeping.     This is also another area of concern as he has no other interests or associations outside of a couple of neighborhood buddies, one who is in the AF (and also tries to convince him to join).

I think in the end we will let him find his own way as being suggested but we want to make sure he understands there are alternatives and I was just looking for feedback from those who have personal experience or kids in the military....

 

[Chadstroma]

For someone like him the military would either make or break him. If he adapts, then it will most likely be a great time for him that taught him a number of things that set him up to be successful in life down the road. If he doesn't, then he will hate the whole time there and not learn anything from it and most likely come out bitter. I think a major factor on this is the motivation for signing up. Is it his idea or did he cave in to pressure from Dad?

 

[sbonomo]

As a hiring manager, if I see a military background it it an instant plus in my book.  People that can get through the military  have proved to me that they can work in a team, know how learn and have balls.  I often  wish I would  have gone prior to getting my degree.  IMO no downside here.

 

[Jayrok]

How exactly does tuition assistance work for those that serve anyways? Honestly, if you put your life on the line, you absolutely deserve free college. 

100% tuition for active duty while serving.  GI Bill after separating from the military.  Least that's what it used to be.  

 

[Chadstroma]

As a hiring manager, if I see a military background it it an instant plus in my book.  People that can get through the military  have proved to me that they can work in a team, know how learn and have balls.  I often  wish I would  have gone prior to getting my degree.  IMO no downside here.

I don't know about other industries though I know Police and Fire tend to look favorable on service but the financial services industry LOVES vets.

 

[JNox3]

How exactly does tuition assistance work for those that serve anyways? Honestly, if you put your life on the line, you absolutely deserve free college. 

While on active duty you can go to school for free.   It hasn't always been 100% tuition assistance though.  Additionally, they have a program called the Montgomery GI Bill.   You can use this while on active duty (after you've been in for a year or two I believe) or use it after you retire or separate.  The GI bill is also transferrable to a dependent.

So you can go to college while in the military and then when you get out you have the GI Bill you can use.

I transferred mine to our daughter.   She got $1200 a month stipend and it paid all her classes.

For the OP....this was the avenue I took.   I didn't really know what I wanted to do.  I didn't enjoy school very much.   It's not for everyone but it would give him time to figure out what he wants to do and if he doesn't enjoy it he can do something else in four years. 

 

[whoknew]

Community college.  Saves money while he gets his #### together, gives him a chance to get his feet wet without the pressure of a four year university, is likely to meet some kind of mentor if he's smart, and no one will shoot at him when Trump or Clinton get us into our next war.

Seriously. I mean, the government is still sending troops to Afghanistan. Do you really want your son to go there?

 

[ProstheticRGK]

I did 5 years active duty Army in the late 80s, early 90s. Best decision I ever made. It taught me self-confidence, based on actually achieving something, that I wouldn't have gotten anyplace else. I was always capable of good grades in High School, but was a really lousy student. I went to college on the GI Bill after getting out, worked FT and lived like a king, compared to other college kids. I did really well in all my classes because I had the maturity to realize I was paying for it, and had learned to balance work hard / play hard.

my 15-year-old son is obsessed with my Army stories. He talks about enlisting after High School. I know it would be an awesome experience for him. But, I have to admit, I worry about the current climate in the military. I am all for military service; I could even be convinced to support mandatory 2-year service for everyone. But I'll be damned if I want my boy making the ultimate sacrifice for what I consider a doomed foreign policy. 

 

[Joe Summer]

You can't be nonchalant in the military. Well, maybe the Air Force.

 

[JNox3]

You can't be nonchalant in the military. Well, maybe the Air Force.

 

[eoMMan]

I have an older sibling who did ROTC (Army) and it worked out great for him. This was well over a decade ago but I believe his entire undergraduate degree was paid for and he was obligated to do 4 years active and 4 reserve. 

 

[Kanil]

His buddy from the neighborhood graduated a year before him and is in the AF and is enjoying it... Stationed outside Denver,  has been home 2-3 times since finishing basic, lives pretty freely with some obvious limitations....

The Air Force does seem to be more suited for those who have tech fields in their sights, or am I mis-guided?

I feel like the your OP was describing me pre-enlistment (except I didn't know what I wanted to do, just knew it was in IT).  I went into a tech field (3CO) in the Air Force and learned more than I did in college afterwards.  I was essentially tech support for a largely civilian unit (we were a test unit).  I absolutely would not be where I am today had it not been for that.  I learned discipline (although that could just be growing up, people change a lot from 18-22), responsibility, and most importantly, work ethic.

My suggestion is to send him into the Air Force but make sure he gets a guaranteed career field (it is something they will do if you test well enough).  While he's in, he needs to take advantage of the free tuition and get as many classes as he can out of the way while he's not paying for it.  Most bases have a program setup with one of the state universities near them to have classes brought onto base (and a lot of schools have online classes as well now).  As stated above, he could either use his GI Bill for grad school or transfer it if he decides not to use it himself.

 

[Charlie Steiner]

I have an older sibling who did ROTC (Army) and it worked out great for him. This was well over a decade ago but I believe his entire undergraduate degree was paid for and he was obligated to do 4 years active and 4 reserve. 

I've been looking at this option for my son (finishing his jr year of HS).  In addition to tuition AND books AND housing, they also receive a modest stipend for living expenses. 

 

[Arizona Ron]

Air Force IMO.  The ASVAB requirements are higher but just study/practice tests.

ETA:  The reason I say AF is because they have more jobs that translate to the civilian world. 

 

[whoknew]

There are other places besides the military to learn discipline. He can learn discipline in college. He will learn to either sink or swim - with the benefit of not getting shot at.

 

[gianmarco]

There are other places besides the military to learn discipline. He can learn discipline in college. He will learn to either sink or swim - with the benefit of not getting shot at.

Or yelled at.

 

[sbonomo]

I don't know about other industries though I know Police and Fire tend to look favorable on service but the financial services industry LOVES vets.

I work for Bank of America - Company wide it is looked at as a huge plus

 

[sbonomo]

Or yelled at.

God forbid a delicate snowflake is offended.

 

[Kanil]

There are other places besides the military to learn discipline. He can learn discipline in college. He will learn to either sink or swim - with the benefit of not getting shot at.

The problem is, if he sinks, he's going to be up to his eyeballs in debt with nothing to show.

 

[ProstheticRGK]

There are other places besides the military to learn discipline. He can learn discipline in college. He will learn to either sink or swim - with the benefit of not getting shot at.

I don't think it would be the same experience, though. I know for a fact that I learned to push my body and brain harder and longer than I would have thought possible in Basic Training. Your brain tells you to quit when things start to get uncomfortable, but there is still a lot more that you're capable of doing, beyond that. I learned that in the Army. I've never seen anything in civilian life that compares to that experience, especially on modern college campuses.

Or yelled at.

My first week in Basic Training, we got issued our M16s and went to the range for the first time. I was 17, and had never spent more than a week away from home. I was scared and confused and really homesick. I wanted to quit really badly. So, we do a forced ruck-march to the range: full 75 lb. rucksack, and our rifles. We do dry fire exercises and they go over all of the safety rules for being on the range- long, long day.

The sun is going down and it's brutally cold in Missouri in early December. Nothing ever happens fast in the military, especially not when you need to move 300 or so green recruits from point A to point B in an organized, efficient manner, making sure that no gear gets left behind. The majority of our training battalion is standing in formation, at parade rest, waiting while the whole area is scoured and policed up. Most of the guys in my training unit were in the same boat as me, fresh out of High School, overwhelmed, scared, trying to blend in and not get picked out of the crowd.

Standing in formation, stock-still, eyes locked to the front is a skill. It is learned and not at all intuitive. We were singled out and forced to do push-ups and sit ups for breaking discipline. While we stood there, the drill sergeants walked up and down the ranks, and messed with us. They'd quiz us on our general orders. They'd ask us about where we grew up and make some of the funniest jokes I ever heard. It was a lot like the beginning scenes of Full Metal Jacket. DSgt Sanders was one of the funniest guys, but he was also a sadist. A huge light-skinned black guy (6'3" 230ish lbs.) with bug eyes and a John Waters mustache, he seemed to take the most pleasure in tormenting us. And here he was, walking right towards me.

"oh, please, God, no. Keep walking." I thought, eyes locked on the guy's head in front of me.

Stops right in front of me, looks down at my name tag, takes a minute and crouches down so he can bang the brim of his smokey bear hat right on the bridge of my nose, as he says my name: "ProstheticRGK..." like a kid trying Brussels sprouts for the first time, and not enjoying them, at all. "You an ugly mother trucker. Your mama must not have loved you."

"Drill Sgt., my mother is dead." I heard somebody say in a voice that was loud and explosive. What the hell? Did I say that? Shut up, you idiot, shut up! Your mom is alive and you just talked to her last night and ended up crying like a kid at summer camp for the first time because you were so homesick. Do not do this! Do not draw attention to yourself.

without skipping a beat, Sgt Sanders shoots back with "Well, your father must not have loved you." The acute interest of the entire battalion is now focused on this exchange, dead silence otherwise.

"Drill Sgt, my father's dead, too." What?!?! What are you doing? Shut the hell up. Sneaks a sideways glance at Sgt Sanders, and notices an almost imperceptible wave of remorse and human emotion cross his face. But showing mercy or remorse are signs of weakness in the laboratories where boys are turned into men, and he presses on.

"Well, ### ####, somebody had to raise you. Who the hell raised you? Your grandparents?"

"Drill Sergeant, I was raised by a pack of feral wolves in the Ozark mountains. You may have read about it in the National Enquirer."

The 30 seconds or so until he replied seemed like an eternity. I didn't dare look, but in my head, I remember being the only one out of 300 some troops still maintaining perfect parade rest discipline. Everyone else was laughing their asses off. Except Dsgt Sanders. He was staring at me hard, like he could drill through my head.

He simply said, "Oh, we got us a smartass. Come on over here and see Sgt Harris, he's got something for you."

The drill sergeants all took in interest in my remedial training after that. They made me do PT until it was time to get back in formation and march back to the barracks. And when we marched, I had to run around the formation, doing military presses with my M16 the whole time. They made me do wolf howls while I ran. Basic training was a breeze after that, because I learned that the whole thing was a mind game. They yell at you and try to stress you out on purpose, to get you to shut off your brain and do things you didn't think you could do. Amazing trick, once you learn it.

I posted this long story in honor of Memorial Day weekend. I'm proud to have served, and I appreciate all the men and women who served beside me. Especially those who made the ultimate sacrifice. 

 

[JNox3]

WTF...is that a real story or some movie I missed?   I never said a word in BMT.  I'm pretty sure they never knew my name. 

 

[ProstheticRGK]

WTF...is that a real story or some movie I missed?   I never said a word in BMT.  I'm pretty sure they never knew my name. 

Real story. My best pg-13 story from my time in the military.

 

[JNox3]

Whoa!!   You get medically discharged?   Section 8?    

 

[cstu]

As a hiring manager, if I see a military background it it an instant plus in my book.  People that can get through the military  have proved to me that they can work in a team, know how learn and have balls.  I often  wish I would  have gone prior to getting my degree.  IMO no downside here.

Not the case for a lot of companies - the unemployment rate for vets is higher than for non-vets.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

I work for Bank of America - Company wide it is looked at as a huge plus

can you zero out my mortgage

 

[ProstheticRGK]

Whoa!!   You get medically discharged?   Section 8?    

Nope. Honorable Discharge after a long and non-illustrious military career, spent at some of the coolest places I ever got to live.

 

[Mister CIA]

You can't be nonchalant in the military. Well, maybe the Air Force.

You mean, the Chair Force.

 

[Spike]

I think the military is a great option...if YOU want it. 

Not sure it's the best idea to force it on your son.

(I was in from 1981-1987.)

 

[Chadstroma]

I don't think it would be the same experience, though. I know for a fact that I learned to push my body and brain harder and longer than I would have thought possible in Basic Training. Your brain tells you to quit when things start to get uncomfortable, but there is still a lot more that you're capable of doing, beyond that. I learned that in the Army. I've never seen anything in civilian life that compares to that experience, especially on modern college campuses.

My first week in Basic Training, we got issued our M16s and went to the range for the first time. I was 17, and had never spent more than a week away from home. I was scared and confused and really homesick. I wanted to quit really badly. So, we do a forced ruck-march to the range: full 75 lb. rucksack, and our rifles. We do dry fire exercises and they go over all of the safety rules for being on the range- long, long day.

The sun is going down and it's brutally cold in Missouri in early December. Nothing ever happens fast in the military, especially not when you need to move 300 or so green recruits from point A to point B in an organized, efficient manner, making sure that no gear gets left behind. The majority of our training battalion is standing in formation, at parade rest, waiting while the whole area is scoured and policed up. Most of the guys in my training unit were in the same boat as me, fresh out of High School, overwhelmed, scared, trying to blend in and not get picked out of the crowd.

Standing in formation, stock-still, eyes locked to the front is a skill. It is learned and not at all intuitive. We were singled out and forced to do push-ups and sit ups for breaking discipline. While we stood there, the drill sergeants walked up and down the ranks, and messed with us. They'd quiz us on our general orders. They'd ask us about where we grew up and make some of the funniest jokes I ever heard. It was a lot like the beginning scenes of Full Metal Jacket. DSgt Sanders was one of the funniest guys, but he was also a sadist. A huge light-skinned black guy (6'3" 230ish lbs.) with bug eyes and a John Waters mustache, he seemed to take the most pleasure in tormenting us. And here he was, walking right towards me.

"oh, please, God, no. Keep walking." I thought, eyes locked on the guy's head in front of me.

Stops right in front of me, looks down at my name tag, takes a minute and crouches down so he can bang the brim of his smokey bear hat right on the bridge of my nose, as he says my name: "ProstheticRGK..." like a kid trying Brussels sprouts for the first time, and not enjoying them, at all. "You an ugly mother trucker. Your mama must not have loved you."

"Drill Sgt., my mother is dead." I heard somebody say in a voice that was loud and explosive. What the hell? Did I say that? Shut up, you idiot, shut up! Your mom is alive and you just talked to her last night and ended up crying like a kid at summer camp for the first time because you were so homesick. Do not do this! Do not draw attention to yourself.

without skipping a beat, Sgt Sanders shoots back with "Well, your father must not have loved you." The acute interest of the entire battalion is now focused on this exchange, dead silence otherwise.

"Drill Sgt, my father's dead, too." What?!?! What are you doing? Shut the hell up. Sneaks a sideways glance at Sgt Sanders, and notices an almost imperceptible wave of remorse and human emotion cross his face. But showing mercy or remorse are signs of weakness in the laboratories where boys are turned into men, and he presses on.

"Well, ### ####, somebody had to raise you. Who the hell raised you? Your grandparents?"

"Drill Sergeant, I was raised by a pack of feral wolves in the Ozark mountains. You may have read about it in the National Enquirer."

The 30 seconds or so until he replied seemed like an eternity. I didn't dare look, but in my head, I remember being the only one out of 300 some troops still maintaining perfect parade rest discipline. Everyone else was laughing their asses off. Except Dsgt Sanders. He was staring at me hard, like he could drill through my head.

He simply said, "Oh, we got us a smartass. Come on over here and see Sgt Harris, he's got something for you."

The drill sergeants all took in interest in my remedial training after that. They made me do PT until it was time to get back in formation and march back to the barracks. And when we marched, I had to run around the formation, doing military presses with my M16 the whole time. They made me do wolf howls while I ran. Basic training was a breeze after that, because I learned that the whole thing was a mind game. They yell at you and try to stress you out on purpose, to get you to shut off your brain and do things you didn't think you could do. Amazing trick, once you learn it.

I posted this long story in honor of Memorial Day weekend. I'm proud to have served, and I appreciate all the men and women who served beside me. Especially those who made the ultimate sacrifice. 

Thanks for your service but not the smartest young lad back then huh?