This is their best offensive play and seems to always get someone open for chunks of yardage. It has been this way all year and very frustrating that they will do this a couple times early and then never seem to do it again.Loved the 1st quarter.. As the announcers pointed out, the first 15 plays are scripted.. Big question is.. if that script worked so well, Why the HELL did you go away from roll-outs, sweeps and screens in the 2nd and 3rd quarter?
Will never understand the "Well, that worked great.. But we can't run those same plays again" ..Should continue to run what is working until they shut it down and THEN move on..
Once that 75 yard run happened in the 3rd quarter the Defense woke up and took control until the Offense woke up again in the 4th quarter.
Hope they can continue to improve as a win next week in Detroit is going to be big now that the Bears, if they win at the 49ers, will have something to play for on week 17.
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Minnesota Vikings Team Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Heatman
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
There definitely seemed to be an emotional low after Cousins threw the interception. The Vikings defense then allows a 12 play drive that used up most of the half, converting several 1st downs. Then the 75 yard run to start the 2nd half. It just seemed like the Vikings were sleep walking after the interception, on both sides of the ball.
The defense ended up playing great after that run but it took some defensive stops before the offense unrutted itself and started to move the ball again.
Miamis defense is terrible and they were missing some of their best players like Howard. While it is encouraging, against better defenses, tho blocking Cook got (wow he actually had some blocks to read) isn't as good.
Still I do think Stefnoski is an improvement and hopefully the Vikings can keep it going next week against the Lions.
I still expect the Vikings to be one and done if they do make the playoffs. If they play well the last two games though maybe they can make it to the post season again.
The defense ended up playing great after that run but it took some defensive stops before the offense unrutted itself and started to move the ball again.
Miamis defense is terrible and they were missing some of their best players like Howard. While it is encouraging, against better defenses, tho blocking Cook got (wow he actually had some blocks to read) isn't as good.
Still I do think Stefnoski is an improvement and hopefully the Vikings can keep it going next week against the Lions.
I still expect the Vikings to be one and done if they do make the playoffs. If they play well the last two games though maybe they can make it to the post season again.
BigJim®
Footballguy
It definitely was reassuring to see the OL make holes for RB. I'm not sure what to make of it... scheme related or defense related. I was not happy the time I noticed a 3rd and 1 going the up the gut route, although they did pick up the 1st. Very predictable to rely upon that play every time they need 1 yard (it seems), with limited success rate.
Whether what we did yesterday is a mirage or sign of improvement, it makes me optimistic to get a glimpse of what this team can do with improved OL play... so hopefully that unit receives a talent upgrade over the offseason so that can become more of a norm than once every so many games.
Whether what we did yesterday is a mirage or sign of improvement, it makes me optimistic to get a glimpse of what this team can do with improved OL play... so hopefully that unit receives a talent upgrade over the offseason so that can become more of a norm than once every so many games.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Anthony Barr had a very good game against Miami. His pass rush was getting home and he blew up a blocker in the backfield knocking him into the ball carrier.
I may be one of Barr's biggest critics, but he has been playing some of his best football the last couple weeks I think.
I did not really notice Barr against the Patriots but Gronkowski didn't do much in that game and I think Barr was an important part of that.
I may be one of Barr's biggest critics, but he has been playing some of his best football the last couple weeks I think.
I did not really notice Barr against the Patriots but Gronkowski didn't do much in that game and I think Barr was an important part of that.
I'm pretty certain if they win out they're guaranteed to make it. If they win one and lose one, then that allows Philly or Wash an opportunity.
I've been very critical of his play but he definitely has stepped up his game in recent weeks.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I agree Barr was good yesterday. It still bothers me that he's too inconsistent, and frankly I think he spent the first half the season pouting. I don't think he's worth whatever he'd require.
I was yelling at the screen when they did that. Although, later in the game they did run a bootleg play on a 3rd and short and picked up some nice yardage. I have been calling for those kind of plays all season and it was nice to finally see it. We did get to see some glimmer of mis-direction and designed roll outs and it was successful. However, I would have liked to see Thielen be targeted a bit more. I don't think it's a good thing to go away from one of your best players. I also don't know why they use Conklin down the field with Rudolph on the 5 yd drag. It seems like they should be flipped as Rudolph is a better athlete down the field.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The Vikings used a lot of 2 TE sets to help the running game.
Conklin is likely a worse blocker than Rudolph at this point of his career. He had one drop but otherwise did ok. Rudolph had 3 targets 3 receptions Conklin 3 targets 2 receptions.
Rudolph played 51 offensive snaps (74%)
Conklin played 23 snaps (33%) as did David Morgan.
Rashod Hill played 3 snaps as a TE (unless O'Neil kicked outside?) as the 5 starters played every snap.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
That's really all Barr is, IMO. A get up the field pass rusher.
Ask him to change directions and/or cover someone and all bets are off.
I get that. I was more wondering about the types of routes they chose to implement for each player. I have noticed that Rudolph is being used as a 5 yd dump off guy and the other TE's get more downfield routes in those instances. It could be due to blocking proficiency but seems like Rudolph could be used more down the field as a weapon with his size and hands.
I get the 2 TE sets for running game purposes. Mostly I was confused by who ran which type of route.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
He has actually been pretty good in coverage since early on in the season, such as the Rams game.
5 Vikings whose futures could rest on a strong finish to the season
I don't recall Barr missing any coverage assignments in the two games since this article.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Yeah I think I know what you mean.
Why have the lesser athlete/professional run a shorter route?
I think part of this is just how the defense chooses to cover the players. They mostly were not covering Conklin or Morgan. So if the OC and QB are seeing that, you call a deeper route with the guy they are not accounting for, to get a bit more out of it. Rudolph running a shorter route on the play keeps the defense closer to the LOS and helps open up Conklins route.
Part of it is also just what Cousins sees and where he decides to go with the ball. If they are having Rudolph check for the blitz and chip block, then his route will need to be shorter because he won't get out on the route right away. Rudolph being the better blocker than Conklin, they want him to help with the protection more than they do Conklin.
When Morgan was in there is likely when they released Rudolph on some other routes without the blocking assignment.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I just saw the play again and it is Hill who is lined up outside of Conklin on this play.
Before the snap Conklin motions inside of Hill and blocks downfield from the same formation where they ran with Murray earlier in the game. Then they run the same play but play action. Conklin is a better receiver than Hill who is blocking the defender who does rush from the outside.
Rudolph could be used similar way as Conklin on play actions in the future. The block and short yardage run sets up the play action later. Conklins guy assumes its a run and just lets him go, with a jumbo package and not many defenders back there.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
What's been wrong with Thielen, ever since he popped up on the injury report he hasn't done much. Does Slay typically cover Thielen or Diggs.
His targets have just been down.
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snogger
Footballguy
Teams have been double covering him and Diggs and no one else has stepped up enough yet to make them stop. Hopefully if the running game continues like last week teams will need to start defending the run again, which should open up the passing game.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I think it is more whats been wrong with Cousins and the protection than whats been wrong with Theilen. It was also the match ups being difficult and play calling being off.Gottabesweet said:
Last week the Vikings got TE David Morgan back from injury last week. He is their best blocking TE. He had been out the previous 4 weeks. The Vikings played him TE Tyler Conklin and FB CJ Ham on significant number of snaps last week, so big formations and only Theilen and Diggs as receivers. A lot of the time the TE are blocking so there are only 3 guys getting out on routes, thus Theilen and DIggs getting double covered a lot.
The Lions are a better defense against the run particularly inside. The Vikings may continue to use more of these big formations, or the offense may try to spread them out more, I am not sure.
As far as the history of who Slay covers I think it is a mixed bag, but in the previous game this season he covered Theilen, but that is because DIggs did not play. Slay doesn't always shadow the top receiver anyways, although I think he did do that most of the game against Diggs in one of the games in previous season.
Theilen does much better running routes from the slot, so these big formations with multiple TE on the field (also a few snaps for 3rd tackle Hill as a TE as well) do not allow Theilen to line up there.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
Lots of talk about how good the Lions interior run D is. Do you still see success for Cook given his speed on the perimeter?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I would think so based on how they played last week. They were getting Murray running outside as well.
In the previous game DeFlippo was running Cook right into Harrison up the middle. That didn't work very well. Remmers can't block him. So hopefully we don't see more of that again.
Harrison is questionable with a knee injury right now and only a limited practice Friday. So if he doesn't play or is on a snap count that improves the outlook for the running game.
⚡DEADHEAD⚡
Footballguy
How do you think the Cousins to Diggs combo works out? I'd be putting a lot of eggs in that basket.
Guess I'm surprised to see Cousins not well ranked this week, but I don't know much about the Lions secondary and Cousins is poor on the road. Guess I'm going with Goff but still torn.
Guess I'm surprised to see Cousins not well ranked this week, but I don't know much about the Lions secondary and Cousins is poor on the road. Guess I'm going with Goff but still torn.
Gopher State
Footballguy
Not much for the bears to play for next week, feels like a Vikings victory next week.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I think Bears can still get a bye and home field if they win and Rams lose.
I'm nervous about the game, but IMHO the Viking should need to win a game like this to earn playoffs. Seeing if Stefanski can improve upon the previous Chicago game plan will good to know heading into an offseason.
snogger
Footballguy
Man, the way they played for the 1st quarter and part of the 2nd... It was like they said "Let's run what hasn't worked all year as they won't expect that" 
Thankfully, they were playing the Lions or this could have easily been one of those games where it was over before half-time..
BIG game next week for both teams.
Bears win and the 49ers beat the Rams, they get the #2 seed and a week off.
Vikings need to win to get in as the only other way in would be to expect Washington to beat the Eagles.
Probably going to come down to turnovers as I see a defensive battle coming..
SKOL!!!!!
Thankfully, they were playing the Lions or this could have easily been one of those games where it was over before half-time..
BIG game next week for both teams.
Bears win and the 49ers beat the Rams, they get the #2 seed and a week off.
Vikings need to win to get in as the only other way in would be to expect Washington to beat the Eagles.
Probably going to come down to turnovers as I see a defensive battle coming..
SKOL!!!!!
Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Agreed. They need to beat a good team if they are going to do anything in the playoffs anyways. If they can't beat the Bears they shouldn't even make it.
snogger
Footballguy
Pathetic game from start to finish on both sides of the ball.. Defense couldn't stop anything when it was needed on 3rd down...A full game of Cousins standing in the pocket and it shows with Cousins having 80 yards late in the 4th...Need to find a REAL offensive coach next year who can realize when a OL sucks and changes accordingly..
Better spend draft picks and any money in FA on OL..
Kind of glad they lost today, and Eagles won, as this team had embarrassing 1st round loss written all over it..
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Agreed. The team has seemed uninspired for much of this season. Cousins is playing bad. The receivers are not happy with him.
They tried to do that by hiring DeFlippo.
The offensive line needs a lot of improvement.
They did that signing Remmers, Reif and Compton recently. Basically playing Remmers out of position at guard because of some guaranteed money when they signed him to play tackle.
So free agency isn't a great way to address this need, teams lock up the good players, its mostly fringe starters being available as free agents. Linemen take time to develop so rookies may not be instant impact.
Agreed.
I had a sliver of hope they might have played well against the Bears today, but they didn't. I could tell from the very beginning of the game that they were not focused or ready to beat a good team, even in favorable situation.
skol asylum
Footballguy
skol asylum
Footballguy
I like Zimmer and always will. I wonder if the team goes a different direction though. It's an offense driven league now with brilliant offensive minds writing up exotic exciting game plans. Not sure there is anyone out there at that level looking to only be an OC.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
Zimmer sucks.always has. in WAY over his head.has no idea what he's doing, worse in-game manager than Rex Ryan. just pathetic. go be an assistant coach somewhere Zimmer you need to be shown the door.
same goes for Jay Gruden,Bowles, etc.
same goes for Jay Gruden,Bowles, etc.
Is that really true though? I mean I know there's a handful of teams that have found their offensive guru but not sure it's that easy to just replace your coach with a brilliant offensive mind.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I’m not sure how to assess any part of the team given the cataclysmically bad OL. It impacts everything, and clearly JDF was not the problem. It’s plain to see this team is not beating the Bears anytime soon with this OL. It’s true that FA is tough, but I think they need to swallow hard if a good player hits open market. Even if it costs them Barr, Richardson and/or Waynes. With those guys, they are not competitive against the now top of the division.
sports_fan
Footballguy
Zimmer is not the problem
Heatman
Footballguy
snogger
Footballguy
Agreed. The team has seemed uninspired for much of this season. Cousins is playing bad. The receivers are not happy with him.
They tried to do that by hiring DeFlippo. Point proven.. He never adjusted to what he had... He went into the season with a mind set regardless of the talent.. A good Offensive coach would have adjusted to th epalyers..
The offensive line needs a lot of improvement.
They did that signing Remmers, Reif and Compton recently. Basically playing Remmers out of position at guard because of some guaranteed money when they signed him to play tackle.
So free agency isn't a great way to address this need, teams lock up the good players, its mostly fringe starters being available as free agents. Linemen take time to develop so rookies may not be instant impact. Colts drafted a OL with the #6 pick and he is going to the Pro bowl and they have one of the best OL's.. The talent is there, as long as they are smart enough to find it.. Then again, Speilman might be the problem
Agreed.
I had a sliver of hope they might have played well against the Bears today, but they didn't. I could tell from the very beginning of the game that they were not focused or ready to beat a good team, even in favorable situation.
snogger
Footballguy
I think Zimmer is a very good coach.. Just needs to have the organization find a great Offensive Coordinator and Zimmer just needs to get out the OC's way and let him do his job.
Might need to find someone that has Head coaching experience, like they had with Norv Turner, so Zimmer respects him enough to let him coach.
snogger
Footballguy
won't bother me to let Barr walk.. Multiple times yesterday he showed his inability to adjust.. He was suppose to be the spy on the QB yesterday and whiffed multiple times. Let him find someone willing to pay him the big $ he wants and use the savings to sign OL..
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
Kendricks being out killed them yesterday...they don't have the depth to cover his loss.
O'Neill has played well - easily their best O-lineman this year (nothing to really be proud of...)
Best thing for the Bears would have been to let the Vikings win - would have been like a bye for them next week...
O'Neill has played well - easily their best O-lineman this year (nothing to really be proud of...)
Best thing for the Bears would have been to let the Vikings win - would have been like a bye for them next week...
Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
He's a dinosaur. He want's to run the ball and play defense - yet keeps drafting CBs in the first round. The NFL doesn't want that 17 - 14 games. They want offense. Zimmer is a great defensive mind, but past his NFL usefulness. (and I like him)I think Zimmer is a very good coach.. Just needs to have the organization find a great Offensive Coordinator and Zimmer just needs to get out the OC's way and let him do his job.
Might need to find someone that has Head coaching experience, like they had with Norv Turner, so Zimmer respects him enough to let him coach.
mr roboto
Footballguy
The same Norv Turner who ‘quit’ because he and Zim didn’t get along?I think Zimmer is a very good coach.. Just needs to have the organization find a great Offensive Coordinator and Zimmer just needs to get out the OC's way and let him do his job.
Might need to find someone that has Head coaching experience, like they had with Norv Turner, so Zimmer respects him enough to let him coach.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I love Mike ZImmer but you may be right.Hov34 said:
After the Vikings lost to the Eagles in the playoffs DeFlippo got way too much credit for that. It seemed like ZImmer wasn't able to adjust the DEFENSE to what they were doing with RPO and so on. If you can't beat them (with a great defense) then join them right?
They hire DeFlippo at least from my perspective so that Zimmer can learn from him how these offenses function so Zimmer can devise ways to counter such offenses moving forward.
So was DeFlippo some offensive genius? Or was ZImmer just not able to get the defense to play well enough against Nick Foles?
I have heard ZImmer talk about how he likes playing against certain QBs because he knows how to beat them (and they are bad) I wonder what his evaluation of Kirk Cousins is in that regard? We have heard about how Cousins will pump before throwing which is why he had so many throws batted down at the point of release, defenders can read him and get up in the air to knock them down. Cousins also make a lot of pre snap reads and decides where he wants to go with the ball before the snap. His post snap reading of the defense is slow. I know ZImmer knows all about hiding the defense and doing different things post snap.
Yet after the hired DeFlipp last year and they all sat down watched QB and they decided Cousins was the best option. I still think Cousins was the best option, it just has taken this season for me to see some of his weaknesses that other teams are taking advantage of.
Zimmer has been preaching situational football to all the players every year since he took over as the coach. He wants players to understand what other teams players are doing at all times, regard;ess of their position. That context will allow them to better understand what offenses are trying to do to them (if they play defense) even though the player would never have to do the job of an offensive linemen for example.
Isn't that applicable to coaching as well? Why does ZImmer have blind spots about offenses if he does? It is his job to understand what every offense is trying to do and devise ways to stop them from doing that. I think he does and he isn't behind the times, but there is some sort of disconnect. I can't imagine ZImmer calling offensive plays.
