Missouri football player Michael Sam is gay (1 Viewer)

[Mr. Know-It-All]

Bonnie Bernstein ‏@BonnieBernstein

Michael Sam's #Mizzou teammates knew he was gay. *Somehow,* a bunch of 18-22 year old kids pulled off a 12-win season. Unity works.

Oh dear god

Indeed.

Troy Phegley ‏@Tphegs91

Westboro Baptist Church has said that they will be picketing the Mizzou basketball game on Saturday in response to Michael Sam coming out

WBC, yet another abomination (like the Jayhawks) that come out of the state of Kansas. Shut that state down.

 

[bigbottom]

Can someone explain why DADT isn't acceptable for the NFL? I mean it seems to be a hard hitting issue for a lot of players and I think we all know that if you have openly gay players calling attention to themselves and the lifestyle that suddenly the locker rooms will take on a different feel.

There seems to be a certain segment of the population that will not rest until they have turned the NFL inside out and abiding by the same rules we all live by at our routine daily jobs. It's a privilege to be in the NFL, very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very few men on this planet get a chance to play professional football so why do we have to go thru all this? Why can't it be enough that to play in the NFL, the powers that be are not asking your sexual preference and in return you don't need to tell everyone who you sleep with?

Because forcing people to live their lives in the closet is unfair and immoral.

Immoral to who?

People with morals.

And forced to live in a closet?

It's a privilege to be able to play in the NFL.

Let's assume for a second BB that the NFL does the wrong thing and the kid isn't drafted or is quietly cut during preseason. There are no new rules or laws that will be made to govern this. It still is gonna be the unspoken DADT and while it might not sit well with many including yourself, I'm not sure it would actually change anything other than some folks in the media making it a big story for a while. Now if the kid somehow makes a roster and became an impact player, obviously the stakes change at that point.

Does the NFL need to generate some kind of new rules and make it very public meaning full blown press conferences and an overhaul publicly of their policies? Do you think the NFL needs rule changes in regards to anything we're discussing in here?

I oppose the NFL implementing a formal rule that expressly prohibits known gay players from playing in the NFL. That is what DADT is and that is what you are proposing.

So everyone who is A-OK with the UNWRITTEN DADT that seems to be prevalent in the NFL is immoral? You gonna throw everyone into that category?

I won't speak to whether or not they are moral, but those who would support the NFL prohibiting known gay players from playing in the NFL would be supporting an immoral practice.

I'm not proposing it, it's already in place but they are never gonna write it down, that would have an army of attorneys ready to attack.

No it's not. DADT necessarily relies on an underlying rule that gay soldiers/players are prohibited from being a member of the armed forces/league. That is not the case in the NFL. If Tom Brady came out tomorrow, he wouldn't be kicked out of the league. Indeed, the fact that it seems to be a foregone conclusion that the Missouri player will be drafted at some point in the draft is evidence that this is not "already in place." Do gay players face a lot if pressure to stay quiet about their sexuality? I don't think this can be denied. But that doesn't make it the same thing as DADT. You asked for someone to explain why DADT isn't acceptable for the NFL. I gave you one perspective. Interestingly, you made your own argument against it in a subsequent post. For some teams at least, it would likely be illegal.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Bonnie Bernstein ‏@BonnieBernstein

Michael Sam's #Mizzou teammates knew he was gay. *Somehow,* a bunch of 18-22 year old kids pulled off a 12-win season. Unity works.

Oh dear god

Indeed.

Troy Phegley ‏@Tphegs91

Westboro Baptist Church has said that they will be picketing the Mizzou basketball game on Saturday in response to Michael Sam coming out

From bad to worse. I was just rolling my eyes at social media taking the story and running but then you have these 1 cell idiots doing stuff like that.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Dude got 11.5 sacks on the field last year and was SEC defensive player of the year - I'd say he will warrant a fairly high draft pick. If you watched any Mizzou football games, the guy is seemingly everywhere. For an offensive minded team, we have produced some pretty good defensive talent. Sean Weatherspoon, Will Moore, Aldon Smith, Justin Smith, and now Michael Sam.

I did not know this. I would say with that info that he will get drafted fairly high, chance at the 1st 2-3 rounds seems likely so if he is sitting there in the 5th then NFL experts like Kiper are gonna have to discuss his sexual orientation.

This could be a PR nightmare for Roger Goodell

 

[dutch]

He'll drop in the draft because certain teams are too scared, then he'll get scooped up by the Patriots or some other "progressive" team and he'll end up being the steal of the draft.

No way it hurts him. If his draft projection says 3-4th round, he will go late 2nd, The NFL is too PC now. There will be teams tripping over themselves to try to draft him. The NFL is not ready for him? Bull####.

Why would teams be tripping over themselves to draft a player 1-2 rounds ahead of where he would otherwise be drafted? Don't just say because the NFL is PC. Actually play it out for me. Your assertion is that there will be multiple teams with GMs and coaching staff that will draft a player who is inferior to a whole round or two of players on the board because the player is openly gay. What is the thinking there? Is it your contention that they'll draft an inferior player because they think that they'll sell more tickets? More merchandise?

To be that GM that put Jackie Robinson in a uniform. To make history. To create buzz. Yes, there will be gain financially and in status to be that guy. The guy will potentially have that top selling jersey.

Not a chance Sam has the top selling jersey unless he turns out to be so much better on the field than he's currently predicted to be based on predraft mocks. A bit of a bump maybe but nothing outlandish. I think your overselling his potential endoresment gain without considering the the backlash that will erode it at the same time.

 

[RBM]

its weird to me that the typically anti-gay rights posters think its to his benefit to come out. I guess that's some sort of odd progress.

Gays are very IN right now

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I won't speak to whether or not they are moral, but those who would support the NFL prohibiting known gay players from playing in the NFL would be supporting an immoral practice.

I'm not proposing it, it's already in place but they are never gonna write it down, that would have an army of attorneys ready to attack.

No it's not. DADT necessarily relies on an underlying rule that gay soldiers/players are prohibited from being a member of the armed forces/league. That is not the case in the NFL. If Tom Brady came out tomorrow, he wouldn't be kicked out of the league. Indeed, the fact that it seems to be a foregone conclusion that the Missouri player will be drafted at some point in the draft is evidence that this is not "already in place." Do gay players face a lot if pressure to stay quiet about their sexuality? I don't think this can be denied. But that doesn't make it the same thing as DADT.You asked for someone to explain why DADT isn't acceptable for the NFL. I gave you one perspective. Interestingly, you made your own argument against it in a subsequent post. For some teams at least, it would likely be illegal.

Agree with your 1st statement. The 2nd part…I need you to understand that I am not saying it is written law. I'm saying it is happening without it being discussed. If a player wants to out themselves then have at it but as far as the NFL is concerned they would prefer an unwritten DADT, just keep it yourself if you can.

I am interested in this story more if the guy is a bonafide selection in the 1st 2-3 rounds. If I see a guy with 11.5 sacks, SEC Def PoTY, I'm gonna want my team to draft that player. Gonna be hard for the NFL to ignore this guy.

 

[bigbottom]

It's a privilege to be able to play in the NFL.

It's no more a privilege to work for an NFL team than it is to work at a grocery store or for a law firm.

@bigbottom For some reason I thought Windsor went further than it actually did in making sexual orientation a federally protected class.

The Employment Non-Discrimination Act would make sexual orientation and gender identity a protected class under federal law for purposes of employment discrimination claims. It has been introduced for last five sessions or so, but has not yet been passed by both houses of Congress. A few district court judges have interpreted the prohibition on gender discrimination to extend to sexual orientation discrimination, but those cases are outliers at the moment.

On the other hand, a number of states prohibit employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

 

[McGarnicle]

If he's truly a middle round pick on merit, he drops maybe 10-20 spots max. At some point he becomes too great of a value to pass up, and that team will show some sensitivity videos or whatever. Then by September all the hype will be over with and it won't be a huge story anymore.

Nobody wants their name all over the media as a bigot who refused to accept a gay guy in the locker room. If he can play and help a team win, he'll be accepted, even if reluctantly at first.

 

[jon_mx]

What backlash? You will have the idiots from WBC and that will be it. A few people who do speak out will be quickly denounced as homophobic bogota and then they will shut up. There will be nothing but upside in coming out.

 

[bigbottom]

I won't speak to whether or not they are moral, but those who would support the NFL prohibiting known gay players from playing in the NFL would be supporting an immoral practice.

I'm not proposing it, it's already in place but they are never gonna write it down, that would have an army of attorneys ready to attack.

No it's not. DADT necessarily relies on an underlying rule that gay soldiers/players are prohibited from being a member of the armed forces/league. That is not the case in the NFL. If Tom Brady came out tomorrow, he wouldn't be kicked out of the league. Indeed, the fact that it seems to be a foregone conclusion that the Missouri player will be drafted at some point in the draft is evidence that this is not "already in place." Do gay players face a lot if pressure to stay quiet about their sexuality? I don't think this can be denied. But that doesn't make it the same thing as DADT.You asked for someone to explain why DADT isn't acceptable for the NFL. I gave you one perspective. Interestingly, you made your own argument against it in a subsequent post. For some teams at least, it would likely be illegal.

Agree with your 1st statement. The 2nd partI need you to understand that I am not saying it is written law. I'm saying it is happening without it being discussed. If a player wants to out themselves then have at it but as far as the NFL is concerned they would prefer an unwritten DADT, just keep it yourself if you can.

And what if they don't keep it to themselves? What happens if AP comes out during the preseason? Does he get cut? No? That's why what you are describing is not DADT.

 

[Fennis]

What backlash? You will have the idiots from WBC and that will be it. A few people who do speak out will be quickly denounced as homophobic bogota and then they will shut up. There will be nothing but upside in coming out.

then why do you suppose no one in the NFL has come out?

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Bonnie Bernstein ‏@BonnieBernstein

Michael Sam's #Mizzou teammates knew he was gay. *Somehow,* a bunch of 18-22 year old kids pulled off a 12-win season. Unity works.

Oh dear god

Indeed.

Troy Phegley ‏@Tphegs91

Westboro Baptist Church has said that they will be picketing the Mizzou basketball game on Saturday in response to Michael Sam coming out

They'd get a lot more mileage protesting a volleyball match or something....just sayin'....

 

[jon_mx]

What backlash? You will have the idiots from WBC and that will be it. A few people who do speak out will be quickly denounced as homophobic bogota and then they will shut up. There will be nothing but upside in coming out.

then why do you suppose no one in the NFL has come out?

Fear. But nobody will care.

 

[bigbottom]

He'll drop in the draft because certain teams are too scared, then he'll get scooped up by the Patriots or some other "progressive" team and he'll end up being the steal of the draft.

No way it hurts him. If his draft projection says 3-4th round, he will go late 2nd, The NFL is too PC now. There will be teams tripping over themselves to try to draft him. The NFL is not ready for him? Bull####.

Why would teams be tripping over themselves to draft a player 1-2 rounds ahead of where he would otherwise be drafted? Don't just say because the NFL is PC. Actually play it out for me. Your assertion is that there will be multiple teams with GMs and coaching staff that will draft a player who is inferior to a whole round or two of players on the board because the player is openly gay. What is the thinking there? Is it your contention that they'll draft an inferior player because they think that they'll sell more tickets? More merchandise?

To be that GM that put Jackie Robinson in a uniform. To make history. To create buzz. Yes, there will be gain financially and in status to be that guy. The guy will potentially have that top selling jersey.

There have already been gay NFL players. I don't think this will be anything like a Jackie Robinson moment. But I don't doubt that there will be discussion about potential upside of drafting the first openly gay NFL prospect. I just can't imagine those considerations leading to a 1-2 round jump from where he'd otherwise be drafted.

 

[dutch]

There's backlash coming from posters in this thread and it is taking various forms and I think that's what we'll see from the population at large. Coming out as he did is going to prove a challenge to Mr. Sam, imo, and to think he'll get an across the board bump in polularity based on his sexuality doesn't square with the reaction so far.

 

[T Bell]

Can someone explain why DADT isn't acceptable for the NFL? I mean it seems to be a hard hitting issue for a lot of players and I think we all know that if you have openly gay players calling attention to themselves and the lifestyle that suddenly the locker rooms will take on a different feel.

There seems to be a certain segment of the population that will not rest until they have turned the NFL inside out and abiding by the same rules we all live by at our routine daily jobs. It's a privilege to be in the NFL, very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very few men on this planet get a chance to play professional football so why do we have to go thru all this? Why can't it be enough that to play in the NFL, the powers that be are not asking your sexual preference and in return you don't need to tell everyone who you sleep with?

Because forcing people to live their lives in the closet is unfair and immoral.

Immoral to who?

People with morals.

And forced to live in a closet?

It's a privilege to be able to play in the NFL.

Let's assume for a second BB that the NFL does the wrong thing and the kid isn't drafted or is quietly cut during preseason. There are no new rules or laws that will be made to govern this. It still is gonna be the unspoken DADT and while it might not sit well with many including yourself, I'm not sure it would actually change anything other than some folks in the media making it a big story for a while. Now if the kid somehow makes a roster and became an impact player, obviously the stakes change at that point.

Does the NFL need to generate some kind of new rules and make it very public meaning full blown press conferences and an overhaul publicly of their policies? Do you think the NFL needs rule changes in regards to anything we're discussing in here?

I oppose the NFL implementing a formal rule that expressly prohibits known gay players from playing in the NFL. That is what DADT is and that is what you are proposing.

So everyone who is A-OK with the UNWRITTEN DADT that seems to be prevalent in the NFL is immoral? You gonna throw everyone into that category?

I'm not proposing it, it's already in place but they are never gonna write it down, that would have an army of attorneys ready to attack.

The NFL isn't DADT - based upon those text messages from Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin do you really think people are keeping their sex lives to themselves?

 

[Fennis]

What backlash? You will have the idiots from WBC and that will be it. A few people who do speak out will be quickly denounced as homophobic bogota and then they will shut up. There will be nothing but upside in coming out.

then why do you suppose no one in the NFL has come out?

Fear. But nobody will care.

Even if youre correct, that coming out as gay will be seen as a positive is a very new thing. If the reaction is what you're predicting, I'm more than good with it. Time will tell.

 

[HughHoney]

What backlash? You will have the idiots from WBC and that will be it. A few people who do speak out will be quickly denounced as homophobic bogota and then they will shut up. There will be nothing but upside in coming out.

Have you not seen that si.com and Peter King have both reported that GM's are saying this will hurt his draft stock?

 

[timschochet]

This is a fascinating story. First off, it's hard not to root for Mr. Sam, and those who are attempting to diminish his bravery have, IMO, very little recognition of what it must be like to be a gay athlete in this country.

As to where he goes in the draft- who knows? I tend to agree with squisition that this will hurt him (or at least not help him). But jon could also be right. It only takes one team. Certainly not something I'd want to wager on.

 

[Scoresman]

Dude got 11.5 sacks on the field last year and was SEC defensive player of the year - I'd say he will warrant a fairly high draft pick. If you watched any Mizzou football games, the guy is seemingly everywhere. For an offensive minded team, we have produced some pretty good defensive talent. Sean Weatherspoon, Will Moore, Aldon Smith, Justin Smith, and now Michael Sam.

I did not know this. I would say with that info that he will get drafted fairly high, chance at the 1st 2-3 rounds seems likely so if he is sitting there in the 5th then NFL experts like Kiper are gonna have to discuss his sexual orientation. This could be a PR nightmare for Roger Goodell

This will only be a PR nightmare if Goodell takes any position on the matter other than having it be a non-issue. If any other players in the locker room have a problem with it, thats THEIR problem.

 

[jon_mx]

What backlash? You will have the idiots from WBC and that will be it. A few people who do speak out will be quickly denounced as homophobic bogota and then they will shut up. There will be nothing but upside in coming out.

Have you not seen that si.com and Peter King have both reported that GM's are saying this will hurt his draft stock?

I hAve heard of one GM, and if they identify people who say this, they will likely be forced to issue a public apology and announce that the NFL does not discriminate on sexual preferences.

 

[HughHoney]

What backlash? You will have the idiots from WBC and that will be it. A few people who do speak out will be quickly denounced as homophobic bogota and then they will shut up. There will be nothing but upside in coming out.

Have you not seen that si.com and Peter King have both reported that GM's are saying this will hurt his draft stock?

I hAve heard of one GM, and if they identify people who say this, they will likely be forced to issue a public apology and announce that the NFL does not discriminate on sexual preferences.

I agree but that doesn't change the fact that coming out is hurting his draft stock. So it's not all positive for him as you've said.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

There's backlash coming from posters in this thread and it is taking various forms and I think that's what we'll see from the population at large. Coming out as he did is going to prove a challenge to Mr. Sam, imo, and to think he'll get an across the board bump in polularity based on his sexuality doesn't square with the reaction so far.

I think in media that does not cover the NFL day to day he will. I can see the nightly smut shows on from 7-8PM parading him out there as a savior and then asking celebrities walking down the red carpet what they think of an NFL player coming out…and it just keep going from there.

Look what happened with Bullygate, that thing took on a life of its own. Gay Rights in the NFL? Rosie, Ellen, and otters will have a field day and they have legions upon legions of followers, many heterosexual and they will be out in full force. This guy is gonna get a lot of support IMO.

 

[jon_mx]

What backlash? You will have the idiots from WBC and that will be it. A few people who do speak out will be quickly denounced as homophobic bogota and then they will shut up. There will be nothing but upside in coming out.

Have you not seen that si.com and Peter King have both reported that GM's are saying this will hurt his draft stock?

I hAve heard of one GM, and if they identify people who say this, they will likely be forced to issue a public apology and announce that the NFL does not discriminate on sexual preferences.

I agree but that doesn't change the fact that coming out is hurting his draft stock. So it's not all positive for him as you've said.

It is not going to hurt his draft stock.

 

[timschochet]

There's backlash coming from posters in this thread and it is taking various forms and I think that's what we'll see from the population at large. Coming out as he did is going to prove a challenge to Mr. Sam, imo, and to think he'll get an across the board bump in polularity based on his sexuality doesn't square with the reaction so far.

I think in media that does not cover the NFL day to day he will. I can see the nightly smut shows on from 7-8PM parading him out there as a savior and then asking celebrities walking down the red carpet what they think of an NFL player coming out…and it just keep going from there.

Look what happened with Bullygate, that thing took on a life of its own. Gay Rights in the NFL? Rosie, Ellen, and otters will have a field day and they have legions upon legions of followers, many heterosexual and they will be out in full force. This guy is gonna get a lot of support IMO.

And well he should. This is one of the great things ever to happen to professional sports in my lifetime. How could anyone who is not a bigot fail to cheer for this guy?

 

[timschochet]

What backlash? You will have the idiots from WBC and that will be it. A few people who do speak out will be quickly denounced as homophobic bogota and then they will shut up. There will be nothing but upside in coming out.

Have you not seen that si.com and Peter King have both reported that GM's are saying this will hurt his draft stock?

I hAve heard of one GM, and if they identify people who say this, they will likely be forced to issue a public apology and announce that the NFL does not discriminate on sexual preferences.

I agree but that doesn't change the fact that coming out is hurting his draft stock. So it's not all positive for him as you've said.

It is not going to hurt his draft stock.

But it might. None of us really know at this point. Too early.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

There's backlash coming from posters in this thread and it is taking various forms and I think that's what we'll see from the population at large. Coming out as he did is going to prove a challenge to Mr. Sam, imo, and to think he'll get an across the board bump in polularity based on his sexuality doesn't square with the reaction so far.

I think in media that does not cover the NFL day to day he will. I can see the nightly smut shows on from 7-8PM parading him out there as a savior and then asking celebrities walking down the red carpet what they think of an NFL player coming out…and it just keep going from there.

Look what happened with Bullygate, that thing took on a life of its own. Gay Rights in the NFL? Rosie, Ellen, and otters will have a field day and they have legions upon legions of followers, many heterosexual and they will be out in full force. This guy is gonna get a lot of support IMO.

And well he should. This is one of the great things ever to happen to professional sports in my lifetime. How could anyone who is not a bigot fail to cheer for this guy?

Tim just called everyone a bigot



I can't run with you dude, you take the cake

 

[squistion]

What backlash? You will have the idiots from WBC and that will be it. A few people who do speak out will be quickly denounced as homophobic bogota and then they will shut up. There will be nothing but upside in coming out.

Have you not seen that si.com and Peter King have both reported that GM's are saying this will hurt his draft stock?

I hAve heard of one GM, and if they identify people who say this, they will likely be forced to issue a public apology and announce that the NFL does not discriminate on sexual preferences.

I agree but that doesn't change the fact that coming out is hurting his draft stock. So it's not all positive for him as you've said.

It is not going to hurt his draft stock.

Changing your position?. You were saying it elevated his draft stock (everyone wanting to be the first on the PC wagon). Have we now backtracked to where it won't hurt his value?

 

[timschochet]

There's backlash coming from posters in this thread and it is taking various forms and I think that's what we'll see from the population at large. Coming out as he did is going to prove a challenge to Mr. Sam, imo, and to think he'll get an across the board bump in polularity based on his sexuality doesn't square with the reaction so far.

I think in media that does not cover the NFL day to day he will. I can see the nightly smut shows on from 7-8PM parading him out there as a savior and then asking celebrities walking down the red carpet what they think of an NFL player coming out…and it just keep going from there.

Look what happened with Bullygate, that thing took on a life of its own. Gay Rights in the NFL? Rosie, Ellen, and otters will have a field day and they have legions upon legions of followers, many heterosexual and they will be out in full force. This guy is gonna get a lot of support IMO.

And well he should. This is one of the great things ever to happen to professional sports in my lifetime. How could anyone who is not a bigot fail to cheer for this guy?

Tim just called everyone a bigot



I can't run with you dude, you take the cake

Who is "everyone"?

As I wrote, I think most people will want this guy to succeed. If you don't, what possible reason could you have other than a dislike towards homosexuals?

 

[HughHoney]

What backlash? You will have the idiots from WBC and that will be it. A few people who do speak out will be quickly denounced as homophobic bogota and then they will shut up. There will be nothing but upside in coming out.

Have you not seen that si.com and Peter King have both reported that GM's are saying this will hurt his draft stock?

I hAve heard of one GM, and if they identify people who say this, they will likely be forced to issue a public apology and announce that the NFL does not discriminate on sexual preferences.

I agree but that doesn't change the fact that coming out is hurting his draft stock. So it's not all positive for him as you've said.

It is not going to hurt his draft stock.

ok. You know more than Peter King and the people at SI.

I can only imagine how you are in the political threads, a fact is presented and you just completely choose to ignore it and follow the narrative you've created in your head.

 

[Gawain]

There's backlash coming from posters in this thread and it is taking various forms and I think that's what we'll see from the population at large. Coming out as he did is going to prove a challenge to Mr. Sam, imo, and to think he'll get an across the board bump in polularity based on his sexuality doesn't square with the reaction so far.

I think in media that does not cover the NFL day to day he will. I can see the nightly smut shows on from 7-8PM parading him out there as a savior and then asking celebrities walking down the red carpet what they think of an NFL player coming out…and it just keep going from there.

Look what happened with Bullygate, that thing took on a life of its own. Gay Rights in the NFL? Rosie, Ellen, and otters will have a field day and they have legions upon legions of followers, many heterosexual and they will be out in full force. This guy is gonna get a lot of support IMO.

And well he should. This is one of the great things ever to happen to professional sports in my lifetime. How could anyone who is not a bigot fail to cheer for this guy?

Tim just called everyone a bigot



I can't run with you dude, you take the cake

Who is "everyone"?

As I wrote, I think most people will want this guy to succeed. If you don't, what possible reason could you have other than a dislike towards homosexuals?

I think when it's all said and done, on average only about 3% of all NFL fans will want to see this guy become a star.

 

[squistion]

There's backlash coming from posters in this thread and it is taking various forms and I think that's what we'll see from the population at large. Coming out as he did is going to prove a challenge to Mr. Sam, imo, and to think he'll get an across the board bump in polularity based on his sexuality doesn't square with the reaction so far.

I think in media that does not cover the NFL day to day he will. I can see the nightly smut shows on from 7-8PM parading him out there as a savior and then asking celebrities walking down the red carpet what they think of an NFL player coming out…and it just keep going from there.

Look what happened with Bullygate, that thing took on a life of its own. Gay Rights in the NFL? Rosie, Ellen, and otters will have a field day and they have legions upon legions of followers, many heterosexual and they will be out in full force. This guy is gonna get a lot of support IMO.

And well he should. This is one of the great things ever to happen to professional sports in my lifetime. How could anyone who is not a bigot fail to cheer for this guy?

Tim just called everyone a bigot

Um, no he didn't.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

There's backlash coming from posters in this thread and it is taking various forms and I think that's what we'll see from the population at large. Coming out as he did is going to prove a challenge to Mr. Sam, imo, and to think he'll get an across the board bump in polularity based on his sexuality doesn't square with the reaction so far.

I think in media that does not cover the NFL day to day he will. I can see the nightly smut shows on from 7-8PM parading him out there as a savior and then asking celebrities walking down the red carpet what they think of an NFL player coming out…and it just keep going from there.

Look what happened with Bullygate, that thing took on a life of its own. Gay Rights in the NFL? Rosie, Ellen, and otters will have a field day and they have legions upon legions of followers, many heterosexual and they will be out in full force. This guy is gonna get a lot of support IMO.

And well he should. This is one of the great things ever to happen to professional sports in my lifetime. How could anyone who is not a bigot fail to cheer for this guy?

Tim just called everyone a bigot



I can't run with you dude, you take the cake

Who is "everyone"?

As I wrote, I think most people will want this guy to succeed. If you don't, what possible reason could you have other than a dislike towards homosexuals?

OK, I'll bite for a bit.

In the SP there are posters saying that basically if you don't 100% back this coming out party that you are the devil. And that's exactly what you did here.

Back in 1989 when the gay movement started, Rosie O'Donnell and many of the founding fathers of the gay movement knew the only way they would succeed is to get middle class white America to accept them as defenseless children which they succeeded mightily in doing so. I'm not gonna link all this but I took a course at Univ of Miami that was very progressive let's say and we went over this topic in depth. I'm not an expert but I know what I read and what was discussed.

You sir are doing it all over again, essentially saying there is no room for any voices except for those in favor of MS coming out. You can keep saying that if you are not accepting that you're a bigot but that kinda makes you a bigot in the process. You can't just have 1 POV and say everything else is invalid, that's kind of a slippery slope.

Also I think it's great you decided to don the Superman cape with a big "G" on it.

 

[jon_mx]

What backlash? You will have the idiots from WBC and that will be it. A few people who do speak out will be quickly denounced as homophobic bogota and then they will shut up. There will be nothing but upside in coming out.

Have you not seen that si.com and Peter King have both reported that GM's are saying this will hurt his draft stock?

I hAve heard of one GM, and if they identify people who say this, they will likely be forced to issue a public apology and announce that the NFL does not discriminate on sexual preferences.

I agree but that doesn't change the fact that coming out is hurting his draft stock. So it's not all positive for him as you've said.

It is not going to hurt his draft stock.

Changing your position?. You were saying it elevated his draft stock (everyone wanting to be the first on the PC wagon). Have we now backtracked to where it won't hurt his value?

I gave you 15 positions above the consensus draft positions. If you are sure it will hurt him, you should take the bet. It should be a slam dunk.

 

[timschochet]

There's backlash coming from posters in this thread and it is taking various forms and I think that's what we'll see from the population at large. Coming out as he did is going to prove a challenge to Mr. Sam, imo, and to think he'll get an across the board bump in polularity based on his sexuality doesn't square with the reaction so far.

I think in media that does not cover the NFL day to day he will. I can see the nightly smut shows on from 7-8PM parading him out there as a savior and then asking celebrities walking down the red carpet what they think of an NFL player coming out…and it just keep going from there.

Look what happened with Bullygate, that thing took on a life of its own. Gay Rights in the NFL? Rosie, Ellen, and otters will have a field day and they have legions upon legions of followers, many heterosexual and they will be out in full force. This guy is gonna get a lot of support IMO.

And well he should. This is one of the great things ever to happen to professional sports in my lifetime. How could anyone who is not a bigot fail to cheer for this guy?

Tim just called everyone a bigot



I can't run with you dude, you take the cake

Who is "everyone"?

As I wrote, I think most people will want this guy to succeed. If you don't, what possible reason could you have other than a dislike towards homosexuals?

I think when it's all said and done, on average only about 3% of all NFL fans will want to see this guy become a star.

I don't care about star. I certainly hope more than 3% will want to see him succeed. I may have a higher opinion of people than you do.

 

[Hipple II]

Probably going to hurt his draft stock

Uh no, then he can say the teams that passed on him were homophobes. As politically correct as we are this should guarantee him being the first pick in the draft now. lol

https://twitter.com/sipetethamel/status/432688791112138752One NFL exec says the league ain't ready.

One exec said the league will be ready for an openly gay player in:

any guesses?

Spoiler

1-2 decades

Spoiler

funny how annonymous gms are always so wrong

http://deadspin.com/heres-how-the-nfl-reacted-to-michael-sam-coming-out-1519612068?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

about 10-20 tweets from active and current players applauding him and saying that it's about time for this to happen. i bet this ends up being much ado about nothing when all is said and done.

steve gleason ✔ @TeamGleason Follow

It appears that @Mikesamfootball is a very high character guy. Beyond athletics, this is what u need in the locker room, & on the field. -SG

Geoff Schwartz ✔ @geoffschwartz Follow

Good for him RT @nfldraftscout: I'm amazed at your courage, Michael Sam. The NFL will have an active gay player. It's about time.

DeAngelo Williams ✔ @DeAngeloRB Follow

I could care less about a man's sexual preference! i care about winning games and being respectful in the locker room!

2:06 AM - 10 Feb 2014

Malcolm Smith ✔ @MalcSmitty Follow

There is no room for bigotry in American sports. It takes courage to change the culture.

How are the GM's wrong? Last I checked Deangelo Williams doesn't make the draft picks for the Panthers.

if that gm said that the nfl locker room won't be 'ready' for an openly gay player for 10-20 years/ yes, i would say he is just flat out wrong.And while deangelo doesnt make the picks he is certainly part of one of those locker rooms, and he seems 'ready'. i think you might be mixing what i was referencing with this 'where will he be drafted debate'.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

What backlash? You will have the idiots from WBC and that will be it. A few people who do speak out will be quickly denounced as homophobic bogota and then they will shut up. There will be nothing but upside in coming out.

Have you not seen that si.com and Peter King have both reported that GM's are saying this will hurt his draft stock?

I hAve heard of one GM, and if they identify people who say this, they will likely be forced to issue a public apology and announce that the NFL does not discriminate on sexual preferences.

I agree but that doesn't change the fact that coming out is hurting his draft stock. So it's not all positive for him as you've said.

It is not going to hurt his draft stock.

ok. You know more than Peter King and the people at SI.

I can only imagine how you are in the political threads, a fact is presented and you just completely choose to ignore it and follow the narrative you've created in your head.

Peter King thinks it will hurt? No schtick HH, if he has 11.5 sacks, DOTY in the SEC, that usually means 1st round many years but let's say it is 2nd or 3rd…this is gonna be really bad if he is ignored until say the 6th round. Talking heads will have a field day who don't cover the NFL all the time.

 

[jon_mx]

What backlash? You will have the idiots from WBC and that will be it. A few people who do speak out will be quickly denounced as homophobic bogota and then they will shut up. There will be nothing but upside in coming out.

Have you not seen that si.com and Peter King have both reported that GM's are saying this will hurt his draft stock?

I hAve heard of one GM, and if they identify people who say this, they will likely be forced to issue a public apology and announce that the NFL does not discriminate on sexual preferences.

I agree but that doesn't change the fact that coming out is hurting his draft stock. So it's not all positive for him as you've said.

It is not going to hurt his draft stock.

ok. You know more than Peter King and the people at SI. I can only imagine how you are in the political threads, a fact is presented and you just completely choose to ignore it and follow the narrative you've created in your head.

I understand the politics better than Peter King. One person opinion does not make something a fact.

 

[timschochet]

There's backlash coming from posters in this thread and it is taking various forms and I think that's what we'll see from the population at large. Coming out as he did is going to prove a challenge to Mr. Sam, imo, and to think he'll get an across the board bump in polularity based on his sexuality doesn't square with the reaction so far.

I think in media that does not cover the NFL day to day he will. I can see the nightly smut shows on from 7-8PM parading him out there as a savior and then asking celebrities walking down the red carpet what they think of an NFL player coming out…and it just keep going from there.

Look what happened with Bullygate, that thing took on a life of its own. Gay Rights in the NFL? Rosie, Ellen, and otters will have a field day and they have legions upon legions of followers, many heterosexual and they will be out in full force. This guy is gonna get a lot of support IMO.

And well he should. This is one of the great things ever to happen to professional sports in my lifetime. How could anyone who is not a bigot fail to cheer for this guy?

Tim just called everyone a bigot



I can't run with you dude, you take the cake

Who is "everyone"?

As I wrote, I think most people will want this guy to succeed. If you don't, what possible reason could you have other than a dislike towards homosexuals?

OK, I'll bite for a bit.

In the SP there are posters saying that basically if you don't 100% back this coming out party that you are the devil. And that's exactly what you did here.

Back in 1989 when the gay movement started, Rosie O'Donnell and many of the founding fathers of the gay movement knew the only way they would succeed is to get middle class white America to accept them as defenseless children which they succeeded mightily in doing so. I'm not gonna link all this but I took a course at Univ of Miami that was very progressive let's say and we went over this topic in depth. I'm not an expert but I know what I read and what was discussed.

You sir are doing it all over again, essentially saying there is no room for any voices except for those in favor of MS coming out. You can keep saying that if you are not accepting that you're a bigot but that kinda makes you a bigot in the process. You can't just have 1 POV and say everything else is invalid, that's kind of a slippery slope.

Also I think it's great you decided to don the Superman cape with a big "G" on it.

Honestly Ministry of Pain, I don't want to call you or anyone else the devil or a bigot or whatever. But you're going to have to explain to me why you would be opposed to this, if you are not prejudiced against gays. Possibly there is a good, non-bigoted reason to root against this guy over this issue. But I can't think of one. If you can, please tell me.

 

[HughHoney]

What backlash? You will have the idiots from WBC and that will be it. A few people who do speak out will be quickly denounced as homophobic bogota and then they will shut up. There will be nothing but upside in coming out.

Have you not seen that si.com and Peter King have both reported that GM's are saying this will hurt his draft stock?

I hAve heard of one GM, and if they identify people who say this, they will likely be forced to issue a public apology and announce that the NFL does not discriminate on sexual preferences.

I agree but that doesn't change the fact that coming out is hurting his draft stock. So it's not all positive for him as you've said.

It is not going to hurt his draft stock.

ok. You know more than Peter King and the people at SI.I can only imagine how you are in the political threads, a fact is presented and you just completely choose to ignore it and follow the narrative you've created in your head.

Peter King thinks it will hurt? No schtick HH, if he has 11.5 sacks, DOTY in the SEC, that usually means 1st round many years but let's say it is 2nd or 3rdthis is gonna be really bad if he is ignored until say the 6th round. Talking heads will have a field day who don't cover the NFL all the time.

The King tweet. https://twitter.com/si_peterking/status/432722481087279104

 

[squistion]

Who is "everyone"?

As I wrote, I think most people will want this guy to succeed. If you don't, what possible reason could you have other than a dislike towards homosexuals?

OK, I'll bite for a bit.

In the SP there are posters saying that basically if you don't 100% back this coming out party that you are the devil. And that's exactly what you did here.

Back in 1989 when the gay movement started, Rosie O'Donnell and many of the founding fathers of the gay movement knew the only way they would succeed is to get middle class white America to accept them as defenseless children which they succeeded mightily in doing so. I'm not gonna link all this but I took a course at Univ of Miami that was very progressive let's say and we went over this topic in depth. I'm not an expert but I know what I read and what was discussed.

You sir are doing it all over again, essentially saying there is no room for any voices except for those in favor of MS coming out. You can keep saying that if you are not accepting that you're a bigot but that kinda makes you a bigot in the process. You can't just have 1 POV and say everything else is invalid, that's kind of a slippery slope.

Also I think it's great you decided to don the Superman cape with a big "G" on it.

Who knew that MOP was an authority on gay history in this country? Most people would say the Stonewall riots in the late 60s started the gay movement, but according to MOP it was Rosie O'Donnell and friends in 1989.

 

[HughHoney]

Rosie O'Donnell a modern day scissoring Rosa Parks.

 

[jon_mx]

What backlash? You will have the idiots from WBC and that will be it. A few people who do speak out will be quickly denounced as homophobic bogota and then they will shut up. There will be nothing but upside in coming out.

Have you not seen that si.com and Peter King have both reported that GM's are saying this will hurt his draft stock?

I hAve heard of one GM, and if they identify people who say this, they will likely be forced to issue a public apology and announce that the NFL does not discriminate on sexual preferences.

I agree but that doesn't change the fact that coming out is hurting his draft stock. So it's not all positive for him as you've said.

It is not going to hurt his draft stock.

ok. You know more than Peter King and the people at SI.I can only imagine how you are in the political threads, a fact is presented and you just completely choose to ignore it and follow the narrative you've created in your head.

Peter King thinks it will hurt? No schtick HH, if he has 11.5 sacks, DOTY in the SEC, that usually means 1st round many years but let's say it is 2nd or 3rdthis is gonna be really bad if he is ignored until say the 6th round. Talking heads will have a field day who don't cover the NFL all the time.

The King tweet. https://twitter.com/si_peterking/status/432722481087279104

Any GM who does not think this kid will be drafted is a ####### idiot and should be fired on the spot.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Honestly Ministry of Pain, I don't want to call you or anyone else the devil or a bigot or whatever. But you're going to have to explain to me why you would be opposed to this, if you are not prejudiced against gays. Possibly there is a good, non-bigoted reason to root against this guy over this issue. But I can't think of one. If you can, please tell me.

I'm not against him coming out but I am not ready to take a Samurai Sword everyone who thinks it could have ramifications.

 

[timschochet]

My challenge to MOP is the same to anyone else here: if you are opposed to this move, if you are planning on rooting against this guy, but you do not consider yourself to be homophobic (either for religious reasons or otherwise), please provide your reason. Any reason will do.

 

[timschochet]

Honestly Ministry of Pain, I don't want to call you or anyone else the devil or a bigot or whatever. But you're going to have to explain to me why you would be opposed to this, if you are not prejudiced against gays. Possibly there is a good, non-bigoted reason to root against this guy over this issue. But I can't think of one. If you can, please tell me.

I'm not against him coming out but I am not ready to take a Samurai Sword everyone who thinks it could have ramifications.

I think it will have ramifications. Good ones. Do you think it will have negative ramifications? Please explain.

 

[Hipple II]

What backlash? You will have the idiots from WBC and that will be it. A few people who do speak out will be quickly denounced as homophobic bogota and then they will shut up. There will be nothing but upside in coming out.

Have you not seen that si.com and Peter King have both reported that GM's are saying this will hurt his draft stock?

I hAve heard of one GM, and if they identify people who say this, they will likely be forced to issue a public apology and announce that the NFL does not discriminate on sexual preferences.

I agree but that doesn't change the fact that coming out is hurting his draft stock. So it's not all positive for him as you've said.

It is not going to hurt his draft stock.

ok. You know more than Peter King and the people at SI.I can only imagine how you are in the political threads, a fact is presented and you just completely choose to ignore it and follow the narrative you've created in your head.

Peter King thinks it will hurt? No schtick HH, if he has 11.5 sacks, DOTY in the SEC, that usually means 1st round many years but let's say it is 2nd or 3rdthis is gonna be really bad if he is ignored until say the 6th round. Talking heads will have a field day who don't cover the NFL all the time.

The King tweet. https://twitter.com/si_peterking/status/432722481087279104

peter king is wrong more often than he i right with his predictions.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Who knew that MOP was an authority on gay history in this country? Most people would say the Stonewall riots in the late 60s started the gay movement, but according to MOP it was Rosie O'Donnell and friends in 1989.

That's published material in most libraries if you want to go verify.

After the Ball-is the title(1989)…can't believe I gotta eat #### again for actually being educated in here…post UM I question the intelligence of many in here more so than I did when I 1st walked in the door.

6 point agenda was laid out so sit back because this is gonna be like gasoline on an open fire in here.

1. Talk about gays and being gay as loud and as often as possible

2. Portray gays as victims not challengers

3. Give potential homosexual protectors a reason

4. Make gays look good

5. Make the victimizers look bad

6. Get funds from Wall Street aka Corp America

Chew on that for a bit

Now if you or anyone else in here wants to take it further I suggest you go read the book 1st or at least don't act incredibly ignorant about this topic. I'm not an EXPERT, I simply was exposed to this while getting my degree. I am done defending my POV. I accept all homosexuals but certain things have and always will bother me how they went about things and also the unbelievably ignorant mindset by some that ALL homosexuals are born that way, that's pure bologna.

 

[squistion]

What backlash? You will have the idiots from WBC and that will be it. A few people who do speak out will be quickly denounced as homophobic bogota and then they will shut up. There will be nothing but upside in coming out.

Have you not seen that si.com and Peter King have both reported that GM's are saying this will hurt his draft stock?

I hAve heard of one GM, and if they identify people who say this, they will likely be forced to issue a public apology and announce that the NFL does not discriminate on sexual preferences.

I agree but that doesn't change the fact that coming out is hurting his draft stock. So it's not all positive for him as you've said.

It is not going to hurt his draft stock.

Changing your position?. You were saying it elevated his draft stock (everyone wanting to be the first on the PC wagon). Have we now backtracked to where it won't hurt his value?

I gave you 15 positions above the consensus draft positions. If you are sure it will hurt him, you should take the bet. It should be a slam dunk.

You said it would elevate his draft position from 3rd/4th round to late 2nd. You said his coming out was a big plus with tremendous upside in his favor and would increase his draft value.

I never said I was sure it would hurt him (although I think it will play out that way). I offered to bet you on what you think now, that he will go late 2nd at worst because of the gay factor. You think it is a posiitive being gay, but you won't bet on that except for some positions a few months down the road that have already factored that in. Put up or shut up - bet me on your 2nd round prediction or go away.