MLB Expansion/ Relocation Possibilities (1 Viewer)

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Idle Monday thought here, but I was wonder, where would be baseball go next if it were to expand(unlikely?) or relocate? What teams would move, where would they go?

I remember Buffalo getting huge hype years ago, but they didn't get much consideration when Les Expos relocated.

Is it time for Oklahoma City, who've had good minor league support, and did a great job with the Hornets this yeJersey has the market restrictions, but could definately support one

Jersey, based on market, and not the restrictions could be strong, the more I think about it. NJ currently has 5 very strong minor league franchises(3 in south jersey) and 7 succesful ones overall. You'd probably look AL in South Jersey(part of the Philly market) or NL in North Jersey(the Mets would really benefit from a rival, and the Yankee fan base is too strong in north jersey to flip in the AL.

A NL team in Boston?

Charlotte, are they getting much hype? Seems to be an exploding market.

Are the D-Rays and Marlins still threats to move?

 

[whoknew]

I've said this before, but MLB needs two more teams -- ideally one in Brooklyn and one in Vegas. Then you can eliminate the wild card and have four four team divisions in each league.

 

[posty]

I don't see MLB expanding again... That would dilute the talent even more...

 

[whoknew]

I don't see MLB expanding again... That would dilute the talent even more...

Why do you think the talent is diluted now? There's plenty of talent to go around.

 

[prosopis]

Mexico?

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Mexico?

Good one, definately could see it, or puerto ricr, if Florida's situation is unsettled AND Fidel kicks and Cuba opens up, how crazy would people be for the Havana Marlins?

 

[TommyGilmore]

The 2 Florida teams need to merge into 1. Then they need to create an expansion team in one of the following places:

1. Portland

2. Charlotte

3. Oklahoma City

4. Sacramento

Portland is the largest metro area in the country without a baseball team -- the market is larger than Cincinnati, Kansas City, Milwaukee and Cleveland. OKC and Sacramento have been very supportive of minor-league teams, but they are just not major league cities. Charlotte could be viable but the market is starting to get a bit saturated with the Panthers, Hurricane, and now the NBA expansion Bobcats.

 

[Sammy3469]

I don't see MLB expanding again... That would dilute the talent even more...

They won't expand b/c there aren't any more viable markets. Nate Silver did an analysis on moving the Marlins, and basically came to the conclusion that as crappy as the Miami is for a market (on the coast, weather, etc) the only place that made sense for both the Marlins and MLB itself is Charlotte. All the other places either cannabalize other markets (NJ, San Antonio, Orlando) too much or are too small (OKC, Portland, Buffalo, Vancouver, Vegas, Puerto Rico...though in 10-15 years PR may be viable) since attendance and local tv markets are so important.

 

[Greco]

I don't see MLB expanding again... That would dilute the talent even more...

They won't expand b/c there aren't any more viable markets. Nate Silver did an analysis on moving the Marlins, and basically came to the conclusion that as crappy as the Miami is for a market (on the coast, weather, etc) the only place that made sense for both the Marlins and MLB itself is Charlotte. All the other places either cannabalize other markets (NJ, San Antonio, Orlando) too much or are too small (OKC, Portland, Buffalo, Vancouver, Vegas, Puerto Rico...though in 10-15 years PR may be viable) since attendance and local tv markets are so important.

Las Vegas would be

 

[bialczabub]

Stories on the Marlins leaving always talk about them going to Vegas.

 

[Capella]

The 2 Florida teams need to merge into 1.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

The 2 Florida teams need to merge into 1.

Whats the solvency of the D-Rays cappy? Are they getting a new stadium? Is there support there? Would they be better served in O-Town? Whats the perception of the viability of that Disney ballpark?

 

[curta269]

I don't see MLB expanding again... That would dilute the talent even more...

They won't expand b/c there aren't any more viable markets. Nate Silver did an analysis on moving the Marlins, and basically came to the conclusion that as crappy as the Miami is for a market (on the coast, weather, etc) the only place that made sense for both the Marlins and MLB itself is Charlotte. All the other places either cannabalize other markets (NJ, San Antonio, Orlando) too much or are too small (OKC, Portland, Buffalo, Vancouver, Vegas, Puerto Rico...though in 10-15 years PR may be viable) since attendance and local tv markets are so important.

Las Vegas would be

They could have Pete Rose be their manager.

 

[Capella]

Whats the solvency of the D-Rays cappy?

Team is making tons of money.

Are they getting a new stadium?

Not anytime soon.

Is there support there?

I don't think there is support in any market for 10-straight 90-loss seasons. But based on the fact the freaking Lightning were 2nd in the NHL in attendance last year and the Bucs have been sold out every year since 1997, yes, Tampa/St Pete will support this team if it ever decides it wants to actually play meaningful games after May.

Would they be better served in O-Town?

No, why would they? I think people need to step back and ask what market would support a decade of this sort of ineptitude (besides the Cubs fans, and that's solely because of Wrigley).

Whats the perception of the viability of that Disney ballpark?

Zero. It's not a major-league park.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Whats the solvency of the D-Rays cappy?

Team is making tons of money.

Are they getting a new stadium?

Not anytime soon.

Is there support there?

I don't think there is support in any market for 10-straight 90-loss seasons. But based on the fact the freaking Lightning were 2nd in the NHL in attendance last year and the Bucs have been sold out every year since 1997, yes, Tampa/St Pete will support this team if it ever decides it wants to actually play meaningful games after May.

Would they be better served in O-Town?

No, why would they? I think people need to step back and ask what market would support a decade of this sort of ineptitude (besides the Cubs fans, and that's solely because of Wrigley).

Whats the perception of the viability of that Disney ballpark?

Zero. It's not a major-league park.

Could they puff up the seating in that ballpark? And how much is Tampa a Yankee town, any kidding aside? Are their games still broadcast on the radio there?

 

[Capella]

Whats the solvency of the D-Rays cappy?

Team is making tons of money.

Are they getting a new stadium?

Not anytime soon.

Is there support there?

I don't think there is support in any market for 10-straight 90-loss seasons. But based on the fact the freaking Lightning were 2nd in the NHL in attendance last year and the Bucs have been sold out every year since 1997, yes, Tampa/St Pete will support this team if it ever decides it wants to actually play meaningful games after May.

Would they be better served in O-Town?

No, why would they? I think people need to step back and ask what market would support a decade of this sort of ineptitude (besides the Cubs fans, and that's solely because of Wrigley).

Whats the perception of the viability of that Disney ballpark?

Zero. It's not a major-league park.

Could they puff up the seating in that ballpark? And how much is Tampa a Yankee town, any kidding aside? Are their games still broadcast on the radio there?

I don't know what you mean by "puff up"There's a lot of transplants here, so I would guess you could classify it as a yanks or red sox or cubs town, depending on who is here that weekend.Not sure. If they are, it's not on the main station.

 

[shuke]

Whats the solvency of the D-Rays cappy?

Team is making tons of money.

Are they getting a new stadium?

Not anytime soon.

Is there support there?

I don't think there is support in any market for 10-straight 90-loss seasons. But based on the fact the freaking Lightning were 2nd in the NHL in attendance last year and the Bucs have been sold out every year since 1997, yes, Tampa/St Pete will support this team if it ever decides it wants to actually play meaningful games after May.

Would they be better served in O-Town?

No, why would they? I think people need to step back and ask what market would support a decade of this sort of ineptitude (besides the Cubs fans, and that's solely because of Wrigley).

Whats the perception of the viability of that Disney ballpark?

Zero. It's not a major-league park.

Could they puff up the seating in that ballpark? And how much is Tampa a Yankee town, any kidding aside? Are their games still broadcast on the radio there?

I don't know what you mean by "puff up"There's a lot of transplants here, so I would guess you could classify it as a yanks or red sox or cubs town, depending on who is here that weekend.Not sure. If they are, it's not on the main station.

The games aren't even on the radio???

 

[Capella]

Whats the solvency of the D-Rays cappy?

Team is making tons of money.

Are they getting a new stadium?

Not anytime soon.

Is there support there?

I don't think there is support in any market for 10-straight 90-loss seasons. But based on the fact the freaking Lightning were 2nd in the NHL in attendance last year and the Bucs have been sold out every year since 1997, yes, Tampa/St Pete will support this team if it ever decides it wants to actually play meaningful games after May.

Would they be better served in O-Town?

No, why would they? I think people need to step back and ask what market would support a decade of this sort of ineptitude (besides the Cubs fans, and that's solely because of Wrigley).

Whats the perception of the viability of that Disney ballpark?

Zero. It's not a major-league park.

Could they puff up the seating in that ballpark? And how much is Tampa a Yankee town, any kidding aside? Are their games still broadcast on the radio there?

I don't know what you mean by "puff up"There's a lot of transplants here, so I would guess you could classify it as a yanks or red sox or cubs town, depending on who is here that weekend.Not sure. If they are, it's not on the main station.

The games aren't even on the radio???

He was talking about the yankees. All the rays games are on the radio, and all but a few are on tv.

 

[Knightro]

D-Rays have an extremely punitive clause in their contract should they try to leave the Trop to relocate. Anyone who tries to move them will have to pay a big fee to break that lease.

New ownership has made steps in the right direction but the journey is not complete. They really spruced up the park this year so it looks much better than years past.

The lack of a cap or a floor in baseball will always make it a game of haves and have nots. Teams can develop from within but then they have a short window for winning given players are free agents after 6 years. That's going to be the problem here with the Rays - just when they start to get good, Upton, CC, Shields, and Kaz will be up for big paydays. If the team doesn't start to get the attendance to bring in more revenue, I don't see Sternberg dumping more money into this group.

 

[shake zula]

The 2 Florida teams need to merge into 1. Then they need to create an expansion team in one of the following places:

I disagree, the Marlins have a large enough following in Miami based on their tv and radio ratings. What the team needs is a doomed stadium farther south or farther north. Miami will never be the market that NYC or St. Louis is but it can be atleast as good as some of the middle tier teams. This won't happen without a doomed stadium and a doomed stadium won't happen without one of two things: new management [an owner with the true money needed to own an MLB team] or MLB stepping in and getting the deal done w/ the county of Dade or Broward. Florida won't foot the bill and neither will either of the counties, baseball has a vested interest in the latin community and Miami is a gateway. Which is why I don't see the Marlins ever moving from Miami or 'merging' w/ the DRays.

 

[[scooter]]

The 2 Florida teams need to merge into 1. Then they need to create an expansion team in one of the following places:

I disagree, the Marlins have a large enough following in Miami based on their tv and radio ratings. What the team needs is a doomed stadium farther south or farther north.

Something in the path of a hurricane perhaps?

 

[BassNBrew]

Charlotte resident here....it ain't happening here for at least 2 decades. The Panthers went corporate, but you're only talking 8 games a year, not 81. Sure all the seats are sold, but if there's a cloud in the sky the wine and cheese crowd stays at home and just tosses the tixs into the trash can. The Bobcats....I paid $199 apiece for my 2 season tix. That's something like $4.70 a game and they send me freebie tix on top of that. I can't buy a beer for that price. Even with the cheap tix how bad were sales??? The cats were sending people door to door to peddle tix. Think about that...are the Red Sox or Cheifs hiring people to knock on doors to move $5 tix?

75% of the people here are transplants. Until history and a based are established (kids that grow up Charlotte fans), the support will only come when you have a winner. Florida might be an exception becuase the base consists of retired people with nothing better to do and ambulance chasers,

 

[Sammy3469]

Charlotte resident here....it ain't happening here for at least 2 decades. The Panthers went corporate, but you're only talking 8 games a year, not 81. Sure all the seats are sold, but if there's a cloud in the sky the wine and cheese crowd stays at home and just tosses the tixs into the trash can. The Bobcats....I paid $199 apiece for my 2 season tix. That's something like $4.70 a game and they send me freebie tix on top of that. I can't buy a beer for that price. Even with the cheap tix how bad were sales??? The cats were sending people door to door to peddle tix. Think about that...are the Red Sox or Cheifs hiring people to knock on doors to move $5 tix?75% of the people here are transplants. Until history and a based are established (kids that grow up Charlotte fans), the support will only come when you have a winner. Florida might be an exception becuase the base consists of retired people with nothing better to do and ambulance chasers,

Yeah, I grew up in the RDU area, so I know the feeling. Charlotte is the only area from a purely numbers perspective that makes any real sense since they can draw from RDU, some of S Carolina and E Tenn, but I agree that it would be much like Atlanta with the Braves.I also agree with shake that the Marlins will eventually move a little farther north, but I don't see them really leaving the area especially since MLB needs a team down there if they ever expand to PR or in 50 years to Havana.I do think MLB will eventually get to 32 teams, but I think they realize right now that there just aren't that many truly attractive markets though I think that'll change in 10 years when both PR and Charlotte will look a lot more attractive. I think Portland's probably doomed due to its lack of size.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Whats the solvency of the D-Rays cappy?

Team is making tons of money.

Are they getting a new stadium?

Not anytime soon.

Is there support there?

I don't think there is support in any market for 10-straight 90-loss seasons. But based on the fact the freaking Lightning were 2nd in the NHL in attendance last year and the Bucs have been sold out every year since 1997, yes, Tampa/St Pete will support this team if it ever decides it wants to actually play meaningful games after May.

Would they be better served in O-Town?

No, why would they? I think people need to step back and ask what market would support a decade of this sort of ineptitude (besides the Cubs fans, and that's solely because of Wrigley).

Whats the perception of the viability of that Disney ballpark?

Zero. It's not a major-league park.

Could they puff up the seating in that ballpark? And how much is Tampa a Yankee town, any kidding aside? Are their games still broadcast on the radio there?

I don't know what you mean by "puff up"There's a lot of transplants here, so I would guess you could classify it as a yanks or red sox or cubs town, depending on who is here that weekend.

Not sure. If they are, it's not on the main station.

Puff up, meaning expand the edifice around the existing structure, ala Arlington Stadium back in the day. And according to this, they are on WQYK in Tampa: http://www.geocities.com/tripod78/yankees/yankeesradio.html

 

[Darth Cheney]

I don't see MLB expanding again... That would dilute the talent even more...

Out of the four majors......MLB has the biggest pool from which to draw talent.

 

[posty]

I don't see MLB expanding again... That would dilute the talent even more...

Out of the four majors......MLB has the biggest pool from which to draw talent.

Maybe, but how many players are in the majors that shouldn't be? There are probably some #4 and #5 pitchers (and maybe #3) that wouldn't be in the bigs if there were less teams...

 

[Smack Tripper]

Is Montreal a dead market?

I know the Expos failed, do they even have a AAA team now?

 

[bialczabub]

The 2 Florida teams need to merge into 1. Then they need to create an expansion team in one of the following places:

I disagree, the Marlins have a large enough following in Miami based on their tv and radio ratings. What the team needs is a doomed stadium farther south or farther north. Miami will never be the market that NYC or St. Louis is but it can be atleast as good as some of the middle tier teams. This won't happen without a doomed stadium and a doomed stadium won't happen without one of two things: new management [an owner with the true money needed to own an MLB team] or MLB stepping in and getting the deal done w/ the county of Dade or Broward. Florida won't foot the bill and neither will either of the counties, baseball has a vested interest in the latin community and Miami is a gateway. Which is why I don't see the Marlins ever moving from Miami or 'merging' w/ the DRays.

1) good for FL for not giving in to years of management threats of leaving if not for a stadium.2) I can get in a HUGE fight with many friends and family by pointing out that what the Marlins really need is a downtown Miami stadium. My parents in Coral Springs and my sister in Palm Beach Gardens will say "Then people like me won't go to the games!" to which I counter, "the Marlins could afford to lose the 10,000 or so fans they currently have if they moved to a place where they could attract new ones." IMO, football is the only sport where a "destination stadium" away from the city works well. Baseball is made for people in the city to quickly get to the Stadium after work. Not drive 45 minutes away.3) I don't think it's that Loria isn't rich enough, just that very few owners will pony up for a new stadium because so often municipalities do it for them.

 

[Sammy3469]

The 2 Florida teams need to merge into 1. Then they need to create an expansion team in one of the following places:

I disagree, the Marlins have a large enough following in Miami based on their tv and radio ratings. What the team needs is a doomed stadium farther south or farther north. Miami will never be the market that NYC or St. Louis is but it can be atleast as good as some of the middle tier teams. This won't happen without a doomed stadium and a doomed stadium won't happen without one of two things: new management [an owner with the true money needed to own an MLB team] or MLB stepping in and getting the deal done w/ the county of Dade or Broward. Florida won't foot the bill and neither will either of the counties, baseball has a vested interest in the latin community and Miami is a gateway. Which is why I don't see the Marlins ever moving from Miami or 'merging' w/ the DRays.

1) good for FL for not giving in to years of management threats of leaving if not for a stadium.2) I can get in a HUGE fight with many friends and family by pointing out that what the Marlins really need is a downtown Miami stadium. My parents in Coral Springs and my sister in Palm Beach Gardens will say "Then people like me won't go to the games!" to which I counter, "the Marlins could afford to lose the 10,000 or so fans they currently have if they moved to a place where they could attract new ones." IMO, football is the only sport where a "destination stadium" away from the city works well. Baseball is made for people in the city to quickly get to the Stadium after work. Not drive 45 minutes away.

3) I don't think it's that Loria isn't rich enough, just that very few owners will pony up for a new stadium because so often municipalities do it for them.

The last team that did it was the Giants and it's more or less hamstrung the team. they know they need to rebuild, but they have to keep the place filled with Bonds so they can meet the interest payments...which is why the Marlin guys won't pay for it themselves since there's no assurances that they'll have the consistent attendence needed to fund the interest.

 

[bialczabub]

The last team that did it was the Giants and it's more or less hamstrung the team. they know they need to rebuild, but they have to keep the place filled with Bonds so they can meet the interest payments...which is why the Marlin guys won't pay for it themselves since there's no assurances that they'll have the consistent attendence needed to fund the interest.

I'm not sure the stadium is the reason for their shortcomings. I can only feel so bad for a team that would guarantee Barry Zito that kind of money for that long.

 

[Sammy3469]

The last team that did it was the Giants and it's more or less hamstrung the team. they know they need to rebuild, but they have to keep the place filled with Bonds so they can meet the interest payments...which is why the Marlin guys won't pay for it themselves since there's no assurances that they'll have the consistent attendence needed to fund the interest.

I'm not sure the stadium is the reason for their shortcomings. I can only feel so bad for a team that would guarantee Barry Zito that kind of money for that long.

I know and their positional scouting has been bad/terrible, but the the owners interest problem is the reason they kept Bonds around for so long and "tried" to win now. It's been a terrible decision no doubt.

 

[bialczabub]

The last team that did it was the Giants and it's more or less hamstrung the team. they know they need to rebuild, but they have to keep the place filled with Bonds so they can meet the interest payments...which is why the Marlin guys won't pay for it themselves since there's no assurances that they'll have the consistent attendence needed to fund the interest.

I'm not sure the stadium is the reason for their shortcomings. I can only feel so bad for a team that would guarantee Barry Zito that kind of money for that long.

I know and their positional scouting has been bad/terrible, but the the owners interest problem is the reason they kept Bonds around for so long and "tried" to win now. It's been a terrible decision no doubt.

Are you saying they shouldn't have kept Bonds?!?!?!?!The guy is a great player when he plays, and he is absolutely beloved by the SF fans. It's not like ditching him and trying to build a scrappy contender would have worked. Also, within the past 3 years I think the Giants were at one point the oldest team or lineup in baseball. They have a knack for picking up past-their-prime guys for big money.

 

[[scooter]]

I do think MLB will eventually get to 32 teams, but I think they realize right now that there just aren't that many truly attractive markets though I think that'll change in 10 years when both PR and Charlotte will look a lot more attractive. I think Portland's probably doomed due to its lack of size.

Portland is the #23 TV market and the 24th-largest-metro area in the country. Compared to other citiesenver - #22

Cleveland - #23

Baltimore - #24 TV market

Indianapolis - #25 TV market

San Diego - #26 TV market

Charlotte - #27 TV market

Buffalo - #25 (#47 TV market)

Kansas City - #27 (#31 TV market)

Cincinnati - #34

Milwaukee - #37 (#33 TV market)

 

[Smack Tripper]

I do think MLB will eventually get to 32 teams, but I think they realize right now that there just aren't that many truly attractive markets though I think that'll change in 10 years when both PR and Charlotte will look a lot more attractive. I think Portland's probably doomed due to its lack of size.

Portland is the #23 TV market and the 24th-largest-metro area in the country. Compared to other citiesenver - #22

Cleveland - #23

Baltimore - #24 TV market

Indianapolis - #25 TV market

San Diego - #26 TV market

Charlotte - #27 TV market

Buffalo - #25 (#47 TV market)

Kansas City - #27 (#31 TV market)

Cincinnati - #34

Milwaukee - #37 (#33 TV market)

Are the A's a candidate to move still? That would be nice rivalry for the M's in that case.

 

[[scooter]]

I do think MLB will eventually get to 32 teams, but I think they realize right now that there just aren't that many truly attractive markets though I think that'll change in 10 years when both PR and Charlotte will look a lot more attractive. I think Portland's probably doomed due to its lack of size.

Portland is the #23 TV market and the 24th-largest-metro area in the country. Compared to other citiesenver - #22

Cleveland - #23

Baltimore - #24 TV market

Indianapolis - #25 TV market

San Diego - #26 TV market

Charlotte - #27 TV market

Buffalo - #25 (#47 TV market)

Kansas City - #27 (#31 TV market)

Cincinnati - #34

Milwaukee - #37 (#33 TV market)

Are the A's a candidate to move still? That would be nice rivalry for the M's in that case.

The A's may be a "poor" team with a crappy stadium and low revenue stream, but they're still in a much bigger market than any of the above cities. If the A's move anywhere, it would be to San Jose or Sacramento.

 

[Your Mother]

I do think MLB will eventually get to 32 teams, but I think they realize right now that there just aren't that many truly attractive markets though I think that'll change in 10 years when both PR and Charlotte will look a lot more attractive. I think Portland's probably doomed due to its lack of size.

Portland is the #23 TV market and the 24th-largest-metro area in the country. Compared to other citiesenver - #22

Cleveland - #23

Baltimore - #24 TV market

Indianapolis - #25 TV market

San Diego - #26 TV market

Charlotte - #27 TV market

Buffalo - #25 (#47 TV market)

Kansas City - #27 (#31 TV market)

Cincinnati - #34

Milwaukee - #37 (#33 TV market)

Are the A's a candidate to move still? That would be nice rivalry for the M's in that case.

New stadium opens in '09.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

I do think MLB will eventually get to 32 teams, but I think they realize right now that there just aren't that many truly attractive markets though I think that'll change in 10 years when both PR and Charlotte will look a lot more attractive. I think Portland's probably doomed due to its lack of size.

Portland is the #23 TV market and the 24th-largest-metro area in the country. Compared to other citiesenver - #22

Cleveland - #23

Baltimore - #24 TV market

Indianapolis - #25 TV market

San Diego - #26 TV market

Charlotte - #27 TV market

Buffalo - #25 (#47 TV market)

Kansas City - #27 (#31 TV market)

Cincinnati - #34

Milwaukee - #37 (#33 TV market)

Are the A's a candidate to move still? That would be nice rivalry for the M's in that case.

The A's may be a "poor" team with a crappy stadium and low revenue stream, but they're still in a much bigger market than any of the above cities. If the A's move anywhere, it would be to San Jose or Sacramento.

is that market not served by the Giants though? a new ballpark makes it moot, but my perception is that support hasn't been overwhelming.

 

[Knightro]

I thought the A's already signed their deal to have a new stadium built in San Jose?

 

[Your Mother]

The A's new stadium is being built in Fremont, which is the south end of Alameda County, as close to SJ as you can get without going into Giants' territory.

The Giants are a horrid team, and they do good business because they have a nice stadium and concessions. If you build it, they will come.

 

[bialczabub]

The A's new stadium is being built in Fremont, which is the south end of Alameda County, as close to SJ as you can get without going into Giants' territory.

The Giants are a horrid team, and they do good business because they have a nice stadium and concessions. If you build it, they will come.

First off, it will be interesting when the A's move out of Oakland, because of the team's strong roots in the city. They will still be East Bay, but Fremont is the end of the East Bay, and dangerously close to the much more yuppie San Jose/Silicon Valley area than Oakland.

The SF Bay Area is one of the biggest markets in the country. #12 by population, but considering the money in the area, I'd suspect it's a much more attractive market than that. It's #4 here by radio markets, which is likely similar to overall media markets.

As for the Giants' influence, here is the best depiction I can draw of the Bay Area

__ \SF| | | | OAK | | | | |____| FremontSV SJIt's an East West thing. I would suspect people in SJ are just as likely to be A's fans as Giants. People just west of SJ might be another matter.BTW, there are three bridges across the Bay. The Bay Bridge from SF to Oakland, the Dumbarton from Palo Alto in Silicon Valley to Fremont, and the San Mateo bridge from about ten minutes south of SF to the other side of the Bay (not sure which town).

It is about a 45 minute drive from SF to Silicon Valley, and it is 5 miles across the Bay Bridge.

 

[Your Mother]

The A's new stadium is being built in Fremont, which is the south end of Alameda County, as close to SJ as you can get without going into Giants' territory.

The Giants are a horrid team, and they do good business because they have a nice stadium and concessions. If you build it, they will come.

First off, it will be interesting when the A's move out of Oakland, because of the team's strong roots in the city. They will still be East Bay, but Fremont is the end of the East Bay, and dangerously close to the much more yuppie San Jose/Silicon Valley area than Oakland.

The SF Bay Area is one of the biggest markets in the country. #12 by population, but considering the money in the area, I'd suspect it's a much more attractive market than that. It's #4 here by radio markets, which is likely similar to overall media markets.

As for the Giants' influence, here is the best depiction I can draw of the Bay Area

__ \SF| | | | OAK | | | | |____| FremontSV SJIt's an East West thing. I would suspect people in SJ are just as likely to be A's fans as Giants. People just west of SJ might be another matter.BTW, there are three bridges across the Bay. The Bay Bridge from SF to Oakland, the Dumbarton from Palo Alto in Silicon Valley to Fremont, and the San Mateo bridge from about ten minutes south of SF to the other side of the Bay (not sure which town).

It is about a 45 minute drive from SF to Silicon Valley, and it is 5 miles across the Bay Bridge.

I don't know what you're babbling about. The A's cannot build in Santa Clara County, the Giants have official domain over that county. The new stadium location for the A's is about 5 miles from the Alameda/Santa Clara County border.

The reason they're moving down south is more corporate/Silicon Valley sponsorship/financing, which they don't have much of in Oakland. They will abandon some fans, who will find it untenable to go to games on a weeknight (BART does not run to the new stadium, and the freeway that runs along the East Bay, 880, is havoc during rush hour), but they'll be able to pull fans from SJ (pop 1M+) and Fremont (200K+) fine, and they should do well on weekends.

 

[[scooter]]

The A's may be a "poor" team with a crappy stadium and low revenue stream, but they're still in a much bigger market than any of the above cities. If the A's move anywhere, it would be to San Jose or Sacramento.

is that market not served by the Giants though? a new ballpark makes it moot, but my perception is that support hasn't been overwhelming.

The Bay Area has 7.5 million people, making it the #6 market overall. Dallas and Philly are the only markets that are larger with only 1 baseball team. It can support 2 teams, but just barely.

 

[bialczabub]

The A's cannot build in Santa Clara County, the Giants have official domain over that county.

What means this? Is there some legislation stating this?Also, if BART doesn't run to the games, you might as well not call them the Oakland A's anymore. The tickets to A's games are so low because it's in Oakland and they have to be. A buddy of mine used to work for the Raiders, who have the single highest walk-up ticket sales in the entire NFL. People in Oakland cash their checks and buy Raiders tickets week by week.

I would imagine the A's have similar customers. Sure, in moving south they will attract corporate money (It's gonna be Cisco Stadium IIRC), but what I'm saying is that the blue collar A's, who have always been in Oakland, a blue collar town, are now going to be playing for South Bay upper middle class fans almost exclusively considering poor viable public transportation options.

EDIT: Do you think the new A's Stadium won't draw heavily from Silicon Valley? That was kind of my point. I'm a firm believer that mostly people's loyalties, or better yet, a geographic region's loyalties, fall pretty distinctly along geographic lines, or "which stadium is easier to get to?" If not for entrenched loyalties, it sounds like for someone living in Oakland, attending a Giants game will soon be significantly easier than an A's game. Why call them the Oakland A's then? It would be like the Nationals moving to a stadium north of Baltimore and continuing to call themselves the Washington Nationals. Which DC fans would they keep when the Orioles were closer?

 

[Your Mother]

What means this? Is there some legislation stating this?

I think this is governed by MLB.

Also, if BART doesn't run to the games, you might as well not call them the Oakland A's anymore.

I dunno what they'll call them, it's probably more of a marketing decision than anything. But they don't call Detroit's basketball team the "Auburn Hills Pistons."

The tickets to A's games are so low because it's in Oakland and they have to be. A buddy of mine used to work for the Raiders, who have the single highest walk-up ticket sales in the entire NFL. People in Oakland cash their checks and buy Raiders tickets week by week.

There are a lot of non-Raiders Oakland fans, and a lot from the more affluent "Highway 24" area (Orinda, Lafayette, etc.). Oakland games aren't filled with guys in hardhats and lunchpails, covered in paint.
I would imagine the A's have similar customers. Not really. Like I said, it's a diverse crowd. Because of BART, it's easy to get to the Stadium from anywhere in the EB: Berkeley, Dublin, Fremont, Hayward, etc. etc.

Sure, in moving south they will attract corporate money (It's gonna be Cisco Stadium IIRC), but what I'm saying is that the blue collar A's, who have always been in Oakland, a blue collar town, are now going to be playing for South Bay upper middle class fans almost exclusively considering poor viable public transportation options.

People here, even lower/middle class ones, have cars. Oakland isn't Mogadishu. It's not a matter of money, it's a matter of convenience. And during the weekends, it won't be that difficult to get from Oakland to Fremont.

EDIT: Do you think the new A's Stadium won't draw heavily from Silicon Valley? That was kind of my point. I'm a firm believer that mostly people's loyalties, or better yet, a geographic region's loyalties, fall pretty distinctly along geographic lines, or "which stadium is easier to get to?" If not for entrenched loyalties, it sounds like for someone living in Oakland, attending a Giants game will soon be significantly easier than an A's game. Why call them the Oakland A's then? It would be like the Nationals moving to a stadium north of Baltimore and continuing to call themselves the Washington Nationals. Which DC fans would they keep when the Orioles were closer?

I don't really know what you're saying. Very, very few people will abandon the A's for the Giants. It might be different if they left the area, but in the end the core fanbase will just go to fewer games, and the people down south will end up going to more games.

 

[bialczabub]

Also, if BART doesn't run to the games, you might as well not call them the Oakland A's anymore.

I dunno what they'll call them, it's probably more of a marketing decision than anything. But they don't call Detroit's basketball team the "Auburn Hills Pistons."

Well, it's not like there is another team nearby to siphon fans. If the Yankees or the Mets moved to Southern CT or Northern NJ, presumably the other would draw more fans in the city itself. If the Jets had gotten that West Side Stadium, I would guess they would do better with people in NYC.

The tickets to A's games are so low because it's in Oakland and they have to be. A buddy of mine used to work for the Raiders, who have the single highest walk-up ticket sales in the entire NFL. People in Oakland cash their checks and buy Raiders tickets week by week.

There are a lot of non-Raiders Oakland fans, and a lot from the more affluent "Highway 24" area (Orinda, Lafayette, etc.). Oakland games aren't filled with guys in hardhats and lunchpails, covered in paint.

I would imagine the A's have similar customers.Not really. Like I said, it's a diverse crowd. Because of BART, it's easy to get to the Stadium from anywhere in the EB: Berkeley, Dublin, Fremont, Hayward, etc. etc.

First, while I admit it's a diverse crowd, it is a much different crowd from a Giants game, and tickets are much cheaper than one would expect in an area with such a high cost of living.

Sure, in moving south they will attract corporate money (It's gonna be Cisco Stadium IIRC), but what I'm saying is that the blue collar A's, who have always been in Oakland, a blue collar town, are now going to be playing for South Bay upper middle class fans almost exclusively considering poor viable public transportation options.

People here, even lower/middle class ones, have cars. Oakland isn't Mogadishu. It's not a matter of money, it's a matter of convenience. And during the weekends, it won't be that difficult to get from Oakland to Fremont.

Parking will almost assuredly be more costly than taking BART even if it is fairly convenient. I'm living in Oakland now, so I know the rush hour traffic going down there. You're turning a 20 minute BART ride into a 30-40 minute car ride.

EDIT: Do you think the new A's Stadium won't draw heavily from Silicon Valley? That was kind of my point. I'm a firm believer that mostly people's loyalties, or better yet, a geographic region's loyalties, fall pretty distinctly along geographic lines, or "which stadium is easier to get to?" If not for entrenched loyalties, it sounds like for someone living in Oakland, attending a Giants game will soon be significantly easier than an A's game. Why call them the Oakland A's then? It would be like the Nationals moving to a stadium north of Baltimore and continuing to call themselves the Washington Nationals. Which DC fans would they keep when the Orioles were closer?

I don't really know what you're saying. Very, very few people will abandon the A's for the Giants. It might be different if they left the area, but in the end the core fanbase will just go to fewer games, and the people down south will end up going to more games.

I think Silicon Valley will become much more of an A's fanbase with time and the North East Bay will become more friendly to the Giants. It's VERY easy to get to AT&T from the East Bay. It won't happen immediately, but it will with time.

 

[DCThunder]

It would be like the Nationals moving to a stadium north of Baltimore and continuing to call themselves the Washington Nationals. Which DC fans would they keep when the Orioles were closer?

For some people living in the Maryland suburbs of DC, it is closer to go to Baltimore than to RFK for a Nationals game. The new stadium will have very little on-site parking, they are relying on Metro to get people to and from the new stadium.BTW, the attendance has been very disapointing this season at RFK for the Nats. With a better than expected team, they are in the low 20s as far as average attendance is concerned. It's possible that Peter Angelos was right about the DC-Baltimore area NOT being able to support two MLB teams.And for those who think Puerto Rico is a viable place for an expansion team, fuggedaboutdit. The PR winter league just flolded after 50 odd years becasue of poor attendance and all the teams losing money. And when the Expos played in San Juan for a couple of years, all the players, home and visitor alike, HATED it.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

bump based on Mike and the Mad Dog's discussions today

 

[Eephus]

bump based on Mike and the Mad Dog's discussions today

Summary for people with triple digit IQs

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I think others may have already said some of this but I'll put in my

The Marlins need to move somewhere.
The A's need a new stadium.
Vegas doesn't need a team. Let the NBA have Vegas.
Brooklyn should definitely have a team. That would be the 4th biggest city in the U.S. if it wasn't part of NYC. NY can easily support three teams especially with the Yankees statewide, regional, and national appeal.
Portland, OKC, Memphis, etc are too small. Lets not do this. After teh luster wears off they become the Kansas City Royals.
I don't think there should be any expansion. Pitching pool is already shallow and I don't want to see more of that.

 

[Eephus]

I think others may have already said some of this but I'll put in my

The Marlins need to move somewhere.
The A's need a new stadium.
Vegas doesn't need a team. Let the NBA have Vegas.
Brooklyn should definitely have a team. That would be the 4th biggest city in the U.S. if it wasn't part of NYC. NY can easily support three teams especially with the Yankees statewide, regional, and national appeal.
Portland, OKC, Memphis, etc are too small. Lets not do this. After teh luster wears off they become the Kansas City Royals.
I don't think there should be any expansion. Pitching pool is already shallow and I don't want to see more of that.

The Marlins got their stadium and are staying.The A's and Fremont will dance around for a few years

Agree on Las Vegas.

I'll wait and see on Brooklyn until I see how the Nets do there. Three new stadiums in one city (excluding Beijing) is about two too many.

Small markets are all that are left in the US. The way baseball distributes revenue is a barrier for these cities to be succesful. Indianapolis, Charlotte, Nashville, Salt Lake City fit into this category as well.

Does increased strength of the Canadian dollar make Vancouver or Montreal redux more viable?

I agree on expansion issues, but which existing teams are candidates to move?