Moreno/Buckhalter (1 Viewer)

[CMU37484]

I realize there is a 6-7 page thread out there on Moreno that has guys STILL bickering about his ADP

I'd like some insight from Denver homers that follow this closely if possible...................

I take the Denver success with SERIOUS CAUTION since they won Week 1 on a fluke play and then beat Cleveland and Oakland.....what I'd like to know is what people think about the use of Buckhalter and Moreno. Is this a true "job share" now and not a handcuff? How do people see the carries breaking down going forward? If Moreno is looking solid and riding momentum in the game is McDaniels STILL rotating in Buckhalter?

Thanks

 

[MCguidance]

 

[nxmehta]

paging SSOG...

 

[The Moz]

He looks like he is getting his game legs now and might actually break out sooner than later. It appears Denver is going to be giving him a 2-1 ratio over Buckhalter. They just need to include him more in the passing game.

 

[cubbie5150]

He looks like he is getting his game legs now and might actually break out sooner than later. It appears Denver is going to be giving him a 2-1 ratio over Buckhalter. They just need to include him more in the passing game.

The lack of receptions is the only thing holding me back from using Knowshon this weekend (over guys like Ryan Grant). Denver's schedule looks tough for the next month +, and his production, IMO, will likely suffer if he doesn't show his versatility (like I thought he possessed); i.e., catching the ball. Dallas also shut-down the Carolina running game week 3, so it makes me a bit cautious in using Knowshon week 4.

 

[DoubleG]

He looks like he is getting his game legs now and might actually break out sooner than later. It appears Denver is going to be giving him a 2-1 ratio over Buckhalter. They just need to include him more in the passing game.

21-14 <> 2:1 Yes, Moreno is being given the chance to prove his worth (and he's doing it), but 1 game out of 3 with a 2:1 ratio doesn't indicate it's moving in that direction. The fact of the matter is, both are having success as are the Broncos. I would think the 3:2 split might stay steady until someone takes the reigns or someone stumbles a few times. (Buckhalter putting the ball on the carpet isn't going to help his case though.)

 

[theglorydays]

I'm a Moreno owner and from the few highlights i've seen, buckhalter looks to be the more explosive back. Has anyone seen all the games? I'd like to here some views on who looks better at this point.

(I realize that Moreno isn't 100% and has dealt with injuries to this point)

 

[puckalicious]

He looks like he is getting his game legs now and might actually break out sooner than later. It appears Denver is going to be giving him a 2-1 ratio over Buckhalter. They just need to include him more in the passing game.

The lack of receptions is the only thing holding me back from using Knowshon this weekend (over guys like Ryan Grant). Denver's schedule looks tough for the next month +, and his production, IMO, will likely suffer if he doesn't show his versatility (like I thought he possessed); i.e., catching the ball. Dallas also shut-down the Carolina running game week 3, so it makes me a bit cautious in using Knowshon week 4.

Dallas did not shut down the Carolina running game. John Fox shut down the Carolina running game. Dwill averaged over 5ypc so he was not "shut down". For some strange reason CAR all but abandoned the run when they were only trailing by 1 score most of the game. They put the game in Delhomme's hands and that is the reason they did so poorly.

 

[Bills_Fan11]

He looks like he is getting his game legs now and might actually break out sooner than later. It appears Denver is going to be giving him a 2-1 ratio over Buckhalter. They just need to include him more in the passing game.

The lack of receptions is the only thing holding me back from using Knowshon this weekend (over guys like Ryan Grant). Denver's schedule looks tough for the next month +, and his production, IMO, will likely suffer if he doesn't show his versatility (like I thought he possessed); i.e., catching the ball. Dallas also shut-down the Carolina running game week 3, so it makes me a bit cautious in using Knowshon week 4.

Meh, Tampa ran on them, the Giants couldn't, and Carolina didn't even try. Not sure what to make of that but in the absence of more information I consider Dallas an average run defense. Bye, Steelers, Ravens is a rough 3 game stretch, otherwise nothing to avoid there. @Philly week 16 I suppose is a minus.

 

[SSOG]

Moreno got 50% of the RB touches in each of the past two weeks. No way does that number DECREASE over the course of the season, and I suspect the fact that he reached 50% so quickly is a strong indicator that the coaches want to get him more. I'm banking on 60% of the RB touches on the season. Should be good for 250-300 carries this year. Hopefully, he can add another 40 catches, although the coaches have left him strangely uninvolved in the passing game so far. If I had to guess, I would guess that's more aberration than meaningful indicator going forward, because McDaniels spoke when he drafted Moreno about how excited he was to use him as a 3-down back in every facet of the game.

 

[cubbie5150]

He looks like he is getting his game legs now and might actually break out sooner than later. It appears Denver is going to be giving him a 2-1 ratio over Buckhalter. They just need to include him more in the passing game.

The lack of receptions is the only thing holding me back from using Knowshon this weekend (over guys like Ryan Grant). Denver's schedule looks tough for the next month +, and his production, IMO, will likely suffer if he doesn't show his versatility (like I thought he possessed); i.e., catching the ball. Dallas also shut-down the Carolina running game week 3, so it makes me a bit cautious in using Knowshon week 4.

Dallas did not shut down the Carolina running game. John Fox shut down the Carolina running game. Dwill averaged over 5ypc so he was not "shut down". For some strange reason CAR all but abandoned the run when they were only trailing by 1 score most of the game. They put the game in Delhomme's hands and that is the reason they did so poorly.

Good point...I was lazy & looked only at total rush yds... Thanks for calling me out on that one. Still, the lack of involvement in the short passing game is perplexing, and limits Moreno's upside

 

[SSOG]

I'm a Moreno owner and from the few highlights i've seen, buckhalter looks to be the more explosive back. Has anyone seen all the games? I'd like to here some views on who looks better at this point.(I realize that Moreno isn't 100% and has dealt with injuries to this point)

Buckhalter's big runs came on carries where he had a clear path to the second level. He didn't "manufacture" those big gains like a Chris Johnson or MJD or Peterson or even DeAngelo Williams does. That's not at all a knock on Buckhalter- just because he's not an elite back doesn't mean he's not a good back. At the same time, it's not necessarily meant as an endorsement of Moreno, who has yet to manufacture a single big gain as well. It's just that I think Moreno would have been just as capable of getting a big gain as Buckhalter was on those particular plays. The fact that Buckhalter has them all so far and Moreno doesn't at this point looks more like a case of "splits happen" than a meaningful indicator going forward.I was lukewarm towards Moreno coming out, in large part because I didn't think he was as explosive or elite strictly in terms of skill running the ball as highly-drafted RBs recently such as McFadden, Stewart, Johnson, etc. With that said, he's looked good so far. I've been very happy with his consistency more than anything. Moreno played better than his ypc would indicate this past week, too- his ypc was right at 5 until late in the game when he started getting a lot more short yardage carries, and that was with a long run of 9 (so it was consistent positive gains rather than breaking a few big ones). I'm still not in love with his talent, but I'm in love with his opportunity, and I'm in love with how in love his coaches are with his talent.

 

[moleculo]

He looks like he is getting his game legs now and might actually break out sooner than later. It appears Denver is going to be giving him a 2-1 ratio over Buckhalter. They just need to include him more in the passing game.

The lack of receptions is the only thing holding me back from using Knowshon this weekend (over guys like Ryan Grant). Denver's schedule looks tough for the next month +, and his production, IMO, will likely suffer if he doesn't show his versatility (like I thought he possessed); i.e., catching the ball. Dallas also shut-down the Carolina running game week 3, so it makes me a bit cautious in using Knowshon week 4.

Dallas did not shut down the Carolina running game. John Fox shut down the Carolina running game. Dwill averaged over 5ypc so he was not "shut down". For some strange reason CAR all but abandoned the run when they were only trailing by 1 score most of the game. They put the game in Delhomme's hands and that is the reason they did so poorly.

Good point...I was lazy & looked only at total rush yds... Thanks for calling me out on that one. Still, the lack of involvement in the short passing game is perplexing, and limits Moreno's upside

I think it's important to note that last week Denver rushed 45 times and threw the ball 23 times. They had the distinct luxury of not having to air it out, given that they held a substantial lead for most of the game.I don't expect that to continue. And, given that Denver will be throwing more moving forward given that they won't hold double-digit leads for most of the game, I'd expect some portion of those throws to be headed in Moreno's direction.

I'm not saying a whole lot, but certainly more than the zero we saw last week.

 

[moleculo]

Buckhalter's big runs came on carries where he had a clear path to the second level. He didn't "manufacture" those big gains like a Chris Johnson or MJD or Peterson or even DeAngelo Williams does. That's not at all a knock on Buckhalter- just because he's not an elite back doesn't mean he's not a good back. At the same time, it's not necessarily meant as an endorsement of Moreno, who has yet to manufacture a single big gain as well. It's just that I think Moreno would have been just as capable of getting a big gain as Buckhalter was on those particular plays. The fact that Buckhalter has them all so far and Moreno doesn't at this point looks more like a case of "splits happen" than a meaningful indicator going forward....

that was my take as well. Buckhalter had nice, clean holes on his big runs - Moreno didn't seem to have as much to work with. That said, I really liked how good Buck looked in the open field - he made some nice cuts getting safeties turned around. Moreno seemed better in short yardage. He's not "power-back" short yardage guy, he's "fits through small holes" short yardage guy. He seemed like a tough guy to corral, whatever that's worth.

 

[MCguidance]

Watching the game, it again seemed like a pretty even split. However, Buckhalter got hurt (ankle) and Moreno had the load from there on out and looked good again. If he gets the load, RB1 production could be in order.

Any word on the severity of the injury to Buck?

 

[cvnpoka]

cbuck injury looked pretty nasty. id say at least 2 weeks. more likely 4-6 tho.

 

[Tigerbot Hesh]

.

 

[packersfan]

Watching the game, it again seemed like a pretty even split. However, Buckhalter got hurt (ankle) and Moreno had the load from there on out and looked good again. If he gets the load, RB1 production could be in order.

After he fumbled, Moreno didn't get on the field again until Buckhalter got hurt. If Buckhalter hadn't gotten hurt, I wonder if Moreno would have returned. If Buckhalter's out, I agree Moreno has RB1 potential. He's now had three productive games in a row while in a time share. If he gets the majority of the touches, he do well.

 

[MCguidance]

If Buckhalter is out, a major bump is likely in order for Moreno in the rankings going forward.

 

[CMU37484]

He definitely cracks the top 15. He'll get spelled by Lamont Jordan but I would think an 80-20 split is more likely than 60-40 to 50-50 like he and Buckhalter had.

Moreno's for real and this is the opportunity for him to show it. They play the Patriots this week and their run defense has been nothing special this year.

He's in my starting lineup for sure this weekend over Kevin Smith.

 

[MCguidance]

I am interested where the guys rank him if they believe he will get 75% or more of the rb touches, plus passes.

 

[SSOG]

I am interested where the guys rank him if they believe he will get 75% or more of the rb touches, plus passes.

If I believed Knowshon Moreno was going to get 75% of Denver's RB touches going forward, I would rank him as RB1. Not a fantasy RB1 (meaning a top-12 back), I literally mean the #1 RB in all of fantasy football going forward. Maaaaaaaaybe RB2 or 3 behind ADP and MJD. Maybe not.Almost nobody gets 75% of the RB touches. Michael Turner didn't get 75% of his team's RB touches last year. ADRIAN PETERSON didn't even get 75% of his team's RB touches last year. Basically, the only guys who have gotten 75% in recent years are Steven Jackson, Matt Forte, and Larry Johnson. Any back who gets 75% is basically guaranteed to be an uberstud simply due to sheer massive volume of attempts. 75% is a completely unreasonable number.60% of the RB touches will really be plenty, especially given Denver's extremely run-heavy gameplan and effective defense to date. 60% of the RB touches in Denver would still very easily equal 320+ touches. With 320+ touches, I think Moreno's easily a top 15 fantasy RB.

 

[Aardvarks]

Why do I get the feeling Peyton Hillis will be started in all 12-team leagues down the stretch?

 

[SSOG]

Why do I get the feeling Peyton Hillis will be started in all 12-team leagues down the stretch?

Hillis is a legit NFL talent, but the job is Moreno's to lose, and he's going to have a very long leash.

 

[MCguidance]

I am interested where the guys rank him if they believe he will get 75% or more of the rb touches, plus passes.

If I believed Knowshon Moreno was going to get 75% of Denver's RB touches going forward, I would rank him as RB1. Not a fantasy RB1 (meaning a top-12 back), I literally mean the #1 RB in all of fantasy football going forward. Maaaaaaaaybe RB2 or 3 behind ADP and MJD. Maybe not.Almost nobody gets 75% of the RB touches. Michael Turner didn't get 75% of his team's RB touches last year. ADRIAN PETERSON didn't even get 75% of his team's RB touches last year. Basically, the only guys who have gotten 75% in recent years are Steven Jackson, Matt Forte, and Larry Johnson. Any back who gets 75% is basically guaranteed to be an uberstud simply due to sheer massive volume of attempts. 75% is a completely unreasonable number.60% of the RB touches will really be plenty, especially given Denver's extremely run-heavy gameplan and effective defense to date. 60% of the RB touches in Denver would still very easily equal 320+ touches. With 320+ touches, I think Moreno's easily a top 15 fantasy RB.

My fault, I just meant the majority of touches. Thanks for the insight.

 

[CMU37484]

I am interested where the guys rank him if they believe he will get 75% or more of the rb touches, plus passes.

If I believed Knowshon Moreno was going to get 75% of Denver's RB touches going forward, I would rank him as RB1. Not a fantasy RB1 (meaning a top-12 back), I literally mean the #1 RB in all of fantasy football going forward. Maaaaaaaaybe RB2 or 3 behind ADP and MJD. Maybe not.Almost nobody gets 75% of the RB touches. Michael Turner didn't get 75% of his team's RB touches last year. ADRIAN PETERSON didn't even get 75% of his team's RB touches last year. Basically, the only guys who have gotten 75% in recent years are Steven Jackson, Matt Forte, and Larry Johnson. Any back who gets 75% is basically guaranteed to be an uberstud simply due to sheer massive volume of attempts. 75% is a completely unreasonable number.60% of the RB touches will really be plenty, especially given Denver's extremely run-heavy gameplan and effective defense to date. 60% of the RB touches in Denver would still very easily equal 320+ touches. With 320+ touches, I think Moreno's easily a top 15 fantasy RB.

OK, while I see your point and we can use "majority" instead so a simple percentage prediction won't be slammed the bottom line is Moreno is likely to get "more" carries in comparison to the other backs on the roster if Buck is out.But to say any RB who gets 75% of the RB touches is an auto "super stud" is a bit of a reach. Larry Johnson just got 18/25 rushing attempts? Is he a super stud? Kevin Smith 19/26 carries. There are backs still left in the league that are not part of committee's due to depth and talent.........this was the case with Buck/Moreno. With Buck out of the picture Moreno's perctage or share of the load will likely increase and this cleary shoots his value up quite a bit.

 

[MCguidance]

Anyone rolling with Moreno over another stud?

 

[cubbie5150]

Anyone rolling with Moreno over another stud?

I have to choose between Moreno & Grant (yeah, I know, not a stud) & am going w/ Grant: GB @ home off a BYE vs crappy D (Lions likely w/out CJ & Stafford, so less likely they put up pts/sustain drives); SD @ home on MNF coming off BYE in a must-win divisional game; CBuck is back, and this morning on ESPN, Tim Hasselbeck said CBuck would have 100/1 (yeah, the Hasselbeck prognostication had no bearing on my decision)

 

[biggamer3]

Moreno is the only rookie RB worth a damn this year.

I would have him ranked in the top 15 RB for today on in fantasy

 

[SteevieG]

Going with Benson & Moreno. The only other choice would have been Lynch, but I'm not yet ready to insert Lynch into the lineup over either of these guys.

 

[dcham77]

Moreno over T Jones.

 

[MCguidance]

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13725797?source=rss

Kiszla: Broncos make mistake with Moreno over Buckhalter

By Mark Kiszla

The Denver Post

Posted: 11/06/2009 01:00:00 AM MST

The Broncos need more touchdowns and fewer excuses. Where to begin? That's easy.

Start veteran Correll Buckhalter at running back.

Bench prized draft choice Knowshon Moreno.

This is the time to make the upgrade, with a Steel Curtain dead ahead for the Broncos. The Pittsburgh Steelers lay down an unforgiving law meant to intimidate foes: Don't even bother trying to run.

"They make everybody stop running the football," coach Josh McDaniels said Thursday.

So what can the Broncos do to fight the Steelers in a battle of wills? Put it all on the shoulders of quarterback Kyle Orton?

Something tells me Denver better come up with a Plan B.

Better give Buckhalter an increased role in the game plan.

In an offense averaging a modest 20 points per game, McDaniels has given Moreno 120 touches from scrimmage to 73 for Buckhalter, yet despite the disparity in workload both Denver players have gained an identical 484 total yards by running or catching the football.

If productivity counts for anything, then it seems to me Buckhalter deserves to be in the huddle nearly twice as much as Moreno.

"We let them play, and we feel good about our backs. No matter who's in the game, we think they're capable people," McDaniels said.

Here's the problem: Know-shon doesn't know all the tricks of the NFL trade, and what the rookie doesn't know is hurting the Broncos.

Don't get me wrong. Despite all the caterwauling when Denver used the 12th choice in the first round on Moreno, taking the 5-foot-11, 210-pound runner out of Georgia was the right thing to do. Playing him so much while Moreno learns on the job has been the mistake.

It's as if McDaniels is in a rush to prove wrong the doubters of his football acumen. Could it be ego is blinding McDaniels to the fact it's Buckhalter, not Moreno, who has been the most dangerous weapon in a Denver offense lacking in big shots?

Despite missing the New England game with an ankle injury, Buckhalter leads the Broncos with five gains of more than 20 yards.

After salary negotiations and a banged-up knee cost Moreno valuable time on the field during his first NFL training camp, his apprenticeship has been done with victory and defeat on the line. The 420 yards gained rushing speak loudly to Moreno's natural talent. Nevertheless . . .

Whether smashing into the pile on third down or fumbling the football in a crash, there are too many times when his rookie anxiety shows and Moreno treats this sport like demolition derby.

It's not the speed of the game that's killing Moreno. It's failure to trust his instincts to slow down the action. Moreno is so obsessed with picking up the tough yards he doesn't give himself a chance to take a play to the house. Maybe that's why his longest run in 109 attempts for Denver is 17 yards.

What Moreno must learn to break big plays is the same trait McDaniels needs to employ in the development of his prized rookie running back: patience.

"Patience is not getting the ball and going 100 mph. In this league, the majority of the time, if you're going 1,000 mph from the time you touch the ball, you're not going to make a good read," said Buckhalter, whose 6.0 yards per carry this season ranks second in the NFL behind the superb 6.9 per attempt by Chris Johnson of Tennessee.

"When I say have patience, I don't mean running the ball at 50 percent speed," Buckhalter added. "But you start out at maybe 70 percent. Then, when you find the crease, you see the opening and that's when you turn it on. Slow to the hole. Fast through the hole."

Buckhalter started four consecutive times to open the season, then got injured, which allowed McDaniels to give the No. 1 running back job to Moreno, and Denver's rushing production has gone on a slow, steady decline.

It's OK for Moreno to be in the game. The Broncos, however, need Buckhalter to make more plays to win the game.

Buckhalter told me he is confident Moreno will develop the patience necessary to exploit NFL defenses, but the talent won't appear overnight, and it might take a whole season of hard knocks for his rookie teammate to master the counterintuitive principle that getting ahead in this league sometimes requires slowing down the racing brain inside your helmet.

A commitment to the running game needs to be made by Denver.

Is the Broncos' No. 1 priority to let Moreno learn by trial and error, or ride the back of Buckhalter to the playoffs?

 

[North]

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13725797?source=rss

Kiszla: Broncos make mistake with Moreno over Buckhalter

By Mark Kiszla

The Denver Post

Posted: 11/06/2009 01:00:00 AM MST

The Broncos need more touchdowns and fewer excuses. Where to begin? That's easy.

Start veteran Correll Buckhalter at running back.

Bench prized draft choice Knowshon Moreno.

This is the time to make the upgrade, with a Steel Curtain dead ahead for the Broncos. The Pittsburgh Steelers lay down an unforgiving law meant to intimidate foes: Don't even bother trying to run.

"They make everybody stop running the football," coach Josh McDaniels said Thursday.

So what can the Broncos do to fight the Steelers in a battle of wills? Put it all on the shoulders of quarterback Kyle Orton?

Something tells me Denver better come up with a Plan B.

Better give Buckhalter an increased role in the game plan.

In an offense averaging a modest 20 points per game, McDaniels has given Moreno 120 touches from scrimmage to 73 for Buckhalter, yet despite the disparity in workload both Denver players have gained an identical 484 total yards by running or catching the football.

If productivity counts for anything, then it seems to me Buckhalter deserves to be in the huddle nearly twice as much as Moreno.

"We let them play, and we feel good about our backs. No matter who's in the game, we think they're capable people," McDaniels said.

Here's the problem: Know-shon doesn't know all the tricks of the NFL trade, and what the rookie doesn't know is hurting the Broncos.

Don't get me wrong. Despite all the caterwauling when Denver used the 12th choice in the first round on Moreno, taking the 5-foot-11, 210-pound runner out of Georgia was the right thing to do. Playing him so much while Moreno learns on the job has been the mistake.

It's as if McDaniels is in a rush to prove wrong the doubters of his football acumen. Could it be ego is blinding McDaniels to the fact it's Buckhalter, not Moreno, who has been the most dangerous weapon in a Denver offense lacking in big shots?

Despite missing the New England game with an ankle injury, Buckhalter leads the Broncos with five gains of more than 20 yards.

After salary negotiations and a banged-up knee cost Moreno valuable time on the field during his first NFL training camp, his apprenticeship has been done with victory and defeat on the line. The 420 yards gained rushing speak loudly to Moreno's natural talent. Nevertheless . . .

Whether smashing into the pile on third down or fumbling the football in a crash, there are too many times when his rookie anxiety shows and Moreno treats this sport like demolition derby.

It's not the speed of the game that's killing Moreno. It's failure to trust his instincts to slow down the action. Moreno is so obsessed with picking up the tough yards he doesn't give himself a chance to take a play to the house. Maybe that's why his longest run in 109 attempts for Denver is 17 yards.

What Moreno must learn to break big plays is the same trait McDaniels needs to employ in the development of his prized rookie running back: patience.

"Patience is not getting the ball and going 100 mph. In this league, the majority of the time, if you're going 1,000 mph from the time you touch the ball, you're not going to make a good read," said Buckhalter, whose 6.0 yards per carry this season ranks second in the NFL behind the superb 6.9 per attempt by Chris Johnson of Tennessee.

"When I say have patience, I don't mean running the ball at 50 percent speed," Buckhalter added. "But you start out at maybe 70 percent. Then, when you find the crease, you see the opening and that's when you turn it on. Slow to the hole. Fast through the hole."

Buckhalter started four consecutive times to open the season, then got injured, which allowed McDaniels to give the No. 1 running back job to Moreno, and Denver's rushing production has gone on a slow, steady decline.

It's OK for Moreno to be in the game. The Broncos, however, need Buckhalter to make more plays to win the game.

Buckhalter told me he is confident Moreno will develop the patience necessary to exploit NFL defenses, but the talent won't appear overnight, and it might take a whole season of hard knocks for his rookie teammate to master the counterintuitive principle that getting ahead in this league sometimes requires slowing down the racing brain inside your helmet.

A commitment to the running game needs to be made by Denver.

Is the Broncos' No. 1 priority to let Moreno learn by trial and error, or ride the back of Buckhalter to the playoffs?

1 mans opinion, but not the coaches.

 

[MCguidance]

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13725797?source=rss

Kiszla: Broncos make mistake with Moreno over Buckhalter

By Mark Kiszla

The Denver Post

Posted: 11/06/2009 01:00:00 AM MST

The Broncos need more touchdowns and fewer excuses. Where to begin? That's easy.

Start veteran Correll Buckhalter at running back.

Bench prized draft choice Knowshon Moreno.

This is the time to make the upgrade, with a Steel Curtain dead ahead for the Broncos. The Pittsburgh Steelers lay down an unforgiving law meant to intimidate foes: Don't even bother trying to run.

"They make everybody stop running the football," coach Josh McDaniels said Thursday.

So what can the Broncos do to fight the Steelers in a battle of wills? Put it all on the shoulders of quarterback Kyle Orton?

Something tells me Denver better come up with a Plan B.

Better give Buckhalter an increased role in the game plan.

In an offense averaging a modest 20 points per game, McDaniels has given Moreno 120 touches from scrimmage to 73 for Buckhalter, yet despite the disparity in workload both Denver players have gained an identical 484 total yards by running or catching the football.

If productivity counts for anything, then it seems to me Buckhalter deserves to be in the huddle nearly twice as much as Moreno.

"We let them play, and we feel good about our backs. No matter who's in the game, we think they're capable people," McDaniels said.

Here's the problem: Know-shon doesn't know all the tricks of the NFL trade, and what the rookie doesn't know is hurting the Broncos.

Don't get me wrong. Despite all the caterwauling when Denver used the 12th choice in the first round on Moreno, taking the 5-foot-11, 210-pound runner out of Georgia was the right thing to do. Playing him so much while Moreno learns on the job has been the mistake.

It's as if McDaniels is in a rush to prove wrong the doubters of his football acumen. Could it be ego is blinding McDaniels to the fact it's Buckhalter, not Moreno, who has been the most dangerous weapon in a Denver offense lacking in big shots?

Despite missing the New England game with an ankle injury, Buckhalter leads the Broncos with five gains of more than 20 yards.

After salary negotiations and a banged-up knee cost Moreno valuable time on the field during his first NFL training camp, his apprenticeship has been done with victory and defeat on the line. The 420 yards gained rushing speak loudly to Moreno's natural talent. Nevertheless . . .

Whether smashing into the pile on third down or fumbling the football in a crash, there are too many times when his rookie anxiety shows and Moreno treats this sport like demolition derby.

It's not the speed of the game that's killing Moreno. It's failure to trust his instincts to slow down the action. Moreno is so obsessed with picking up the tough yards he doesn't give himself a chance to take a play to the house. Maybe that's why his longest run in 109 attempts for Denver is 17 yards.

What Moreno must learn to break big plays is the same trait McDaniels needs to employ in the development of his prized rookie running back: patience.

"Patience is not getting the ball and going 100 mph. In this league, the majority of the time, if you're going 1,000 mph from the time you touch the ball, you're not going to make a good read," said Buckhalter, whose 6.0 yards per carry this season ranks second in the NFL behind the superb 6.9 per attempt by Chris Johnson of Tennessee.

"When I say have patience, I don't mean running the ball at 50 percent speed," Buckhalter added. "But you start out at maybe 70 percent. Then, when you find the crease, you see the opening and that's when you turn it on. Slow to the hole. Fast through the hole."

Buckhalter started four consecutive times to open the season, then got injured, which allowed McDaniels to give the No. 1 running back job to Moreno, and Denver's rushing production has gone on a slow, steady decline.

It's OK for Moreno to be in the game. The Broncos, however, need Buckhalter to make more plays to win the game.

Buckhalter told me he is confident Moreno will develop the patience necessary to exploit NFL defenses, but the talent won't appear overnight, and it might take a whole season of hard knocks for his rookie teammate to master the counterintuitive principle that getting ahead in this league sometimes requires slowing down the racing brain inside your helmet.

A commitment to the running game needs to be made by Denver.

Is the Broncos' No. 1 priority to let Moreno learn by trial and error, or ride the back of Buckhalter to the playoffs?

1 mans opinion, but not the coaches.

Absolutely correct - but it's just interesting to read. More of an FYI, keep the eyes open type of thing.

 

[SSOG]

Whether Buckhalter starts or Moreno does doesn't really matter. I don't think Buck could handle a full load, so regardless of who gets the first carry, the split will likely stay pretty constant.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Whether Buckhalter starts or Moreno does doesn't really matter. I don't think Buck could handle a full load, so regardless of who gets the first carry, the split will likely stay pretty constant.

I don't think Buckhalter is ever a feature back in Denver. McDaniels will continue to employ the New England clone style of running the ball. And it has worked.I do agree with that "one mans opinion", and that Buckhalter is the better back this year. Maybe Moreno will be better in the future, but if the game is on the line, and I need a playoff caliber performance, and its between these guys, I am choosing Buckhalter.I do think that as the season wears on, we'll see more of a 60/40 split in Buckhalters favor, with key 3rd quarter and early 4th quarter possessions going to Buckhalter. FWIW, I traded Moreno away early in the season, and have recently traded for Buckhalter. The hype on Moreno was not justified, and Buckhalter is not getting the credit he deserves, IMO.

 

[packersfan]

FWIW, I traded Moreno away early in the season, and have recently traded for Buckhalter. The hype on Moreno was not justified, and Buckhalter is not getting the credit he deserves, IMO.

I agree with both. I'm a Moreno owner and there's no question in my opinion that right now Buckhalter is the superior RB, deserves to start and should be getting more carries. Moreno runs hard but has shown little burst and rarely makes things happen. There's nothing special about him. My belief going into the season was that Wells was the superior talent but I thought Moreno had the better situation so he'd emerge as the superior fantasy RB. Thus far, he has been but I could see Wells overtaking him even as he remains immersed in his time share with Hightower. Moreno was viewed as a good receiver but he's a non-factor in the passing game and McDaniels clearly favors Buckhalter there. As much as I'd like to see Moreno take the job and make it his own I agree with the story above. The Broncos should give the job to Buckhalter and use Moreno much less than they have been. The TD last week was good to see, especially coming against a good run defense, so maybe he can seize the goal-line role. Right now, that's about the only thing I can cling to with any sense of optimism about him. He looks like a very average RB and his schedule (especially tomorrow night) is not very appealing. I don't see how you can start Moreno this week in any league. I think Buckhalter is a decent RB3 in PPR leagues because he'll continue to be an option in the passing game. Going forward, I'd expect that to be the case most weeks. Buckhalter a decent RB3 in PPR leagues and Moreno being a guy only worth considering when the matchup is in his favor (though as we saw against the Chargers, he can kill you then as well).

 

[Raiderfan32904]

I agree with both. I'm a Moreno owner and there's no question in my opinion that right now Buckhalter is the superior RB, deserves to start and should be getting more carries. Moreno runs hard but has shown little burst and rarely makes things happen. There's nothing special about him. My belief going into the season was that Wells was the superior talent but I thought Moreno had the better situation so he'd emerge as the superior fantasy RB. Thus far, he has been but I could see Wells overtaking him even as he remains immersed in his time share with Hightower. Moreno was viewed as a good receiver but he's a non-factor in the passing game and McDaniels clearly favors Buckhalter there. As much as I'd like to see Moreno take the job and make it his own I agree with the story above. The Broncos should give the job to Buckhalter and use Moreno much less than they have been. The TD last week was good to see, especially coming against a good run defense, so maybe he can seize the goal-line role. Right now, that's about the only thing I can cling to with any sense of optimism about him. He looks like a very average RB and his schedule (especially tomorrow night) is not very appealing. I don't see how you can start Moreno this week in any league. I think Buckhalter is a decent RB3 in PPR leagues because he'll continue to be an option in the passing game. Going forward, I'd expect that to be the case most weeks. Buckhalter a decent RB3 in PPR leagues and Moreno being a guy only worth considering when the matchup is in his favor (though as we saw against the Chargers, he can kill you then as well).

It's refreshingly honest that an owner of a player man up with an objective assessment. Buckhalter has a nice floor in PPR, and he has some upside as well. I'm starting him this week as my flex. Who else is with me?

 

[packersfan]

I agree with both. I'm a Moreno owner and there's no question in my opinion that right now Buckhalter is the superior RB, deserves to start and should be getting more carries. Moreno runs hard but has shown little burst and rarely makes things happen. There's nothing special about him. My belief going into the season was that Wells was the superior talent but I thought Moreno had the better situation so he'd emerge as the superior fantasy RB. Thus far, he has been but I could see Wells overtaking him even as he remains immersed in his time share with Hightower. Moreno was viewed as a good receiver but he's a non-factor in the passing game and McDaniels clearly favors Buckhalter there. As much as I'd like to see Moreno take the job and make it his own I agree with the story above. The Broncos should give the job to Buckhalter and use Moreno much less than they have been. The TD last week was good to see, especially coming against a good run defense, so maybe he can seize the goal-line role. Right now, that's about the only thing I can cling to with any sense of optimism about him. He looks like a very average RB and his schedule (especially tomorrow night) is not very appealing. I don't see how you can start Moreno this week in any league. I think Buckhalter is a decent RB3 in PPR leagues because he'll continue to be an option in the passing game. Going forward, I'd expect that to be the case most weeks. Buckhalter a decent RB3 in PPR leagues and Moreno being a guy only worth considering when the matchup is in his favor (though as we saw against the Chargers, he can kill you then as well).

It's refreshingly honest that an owner of a player man up with an objective assessment.

My league keeps one player per year who wasn't drafted in the first three rounds of the previous year. I took Moreno this year thinking he'd be a prime keeper for next year and be a solid RB2 this year. But I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe he's going to be my keeper next year. There's just nothing special about the guy. He looks very ordinary so far. Maybe (hopefully) that changes in the second half of the season but right now, Buckhalter's the guy who looks more like a special RB and I'm not sure he has either of his knees anymore.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

I agree with both. I'm a Moreno owner and there's no question in my opinion that right now Buckhalter is the superior RB, deserves to start and should be getting more carries. Moreno runs hard but has shown little burst and rarely makes things happen. There's nothing special about him. My belief going into the season was that Wells was the superior talent but I thought Moreno had the better situation so he'd emerge as the superior fantasy RB. Thus far, he has been but I could see Wells overtaking him even as he remains immersed in his time share with Hightower. Moreno was viewed as a good receiver but he's a non-factor in the passing game and McDaniels clearly favors Buckhalter there. As much as I'd like to see Moreno take the job and make it his own I agree with the story above. The Broncos should give the job to Buckhalter and use Moreno much less than they have been. The TD last week was good to see, especially coming against a good run defense, so maybe he can seize the goal-line role. Right now, that's about the only thing I can cling to with any sense of optimism about him. He looks like a very average RB and his schedule (especially tomorrow night) is not very appealing. I don't see how you can start Moreno this week in any league. I think Buckhalter is a decent RB3 in PPR leagues because he'll continue to be an option in the passing game. Going forward, I'd expect that to be the case most weeks. Buckhalter a decent RB3 in PPR leagues and Moreno being a guy only worth considering when the matchup is in his favor (though as we saw against the Chargers, he can kill you then as well).

It's refreshingly honest that an owner of a player man up with an objective assessment.

My league keeps one player per year who wasn't drafted in the first three rounds of the previous year. I took Moreno this year thinking he'd be a prime keeper for next year and be a solid RB2 this year. But I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe he's going to be my keeper next year. There's just nothing special about the guy. He looks very ordinary so far. Maybe (hopefully) that changes in the second half of the season but right now, Buckhalter's the guy who looks more like a special RB and I'm not sure he has either of his knees anymore.

Agree with you about Buckhalter. He's no keeper. But I picked him up specifically because he fills in gaps in my schedule, and his matchups are favorable. I am counting on him for week #15 vs the Raiders as my flex. I gave up on Moreno early, because I was very disappointed early on with his lack of burst. I saw him a lot in college, and I was thinking, "Is this the same guy?"

 

[packersfan]

I think Moreno owners should be very concerned right now. For the third straight game, Moreno looked like garbage. Granted, Pittsburgh's run defense is stellar but Moreno just looked awful last night and again he looked considerably worse than Buckhalter. I think there are several things that are quite disturbing about Moreno right now:

1. He looks awful. He has been held under 45 yards rushing in each of the past three games and were it not for a TD last week, his fantasy production would be putrid.

2. He's lost his starting job to Buckhalter. Buckhalter has started the past two games and has been more effective.

3. He's a total non-factor in the passing game. This is a huge issue in my opinion because Orton isn't very good and that means the Broncos could be playing from behind a lot as has been the case the past two weeks. If they're playing from behind, that means more snaps for Buckhalter, who McDaniels clearly trusts more in the passing game.

The only thing I can see that will save Moreno's season is another injury to Buckhalter (which isn't out of the question given Buckhalter's history). Otherwise, he is not someone who can be started in any leagues and he's someone who, in my opinion, is droppable in smaller leagues or leagues with tight rosters.

 

[Lord Fantasy]

I think we got spoiled by last year's crop of immediately productive rookies.

 

[SCT]

I put this in the game thread last night:

Buckhalter has started every game in which he was active....As a Moreno owner, I think a case can be made that the only reason Moreno has had 2-1 carries is due to Buck getting dinged up. I know many don't agree with that but I have watched Denver games very closely to try to figure out the true intended RB rotation and I contend that CBuck has been the main guy from the beginning and if anything they have wanted a 50/50 split but couldn't because of his injuries. Tonight would be a possible argument for that theory too.

 

[Titus Pullo]

I gave up on Moreno early, because I was very disappointed early on with his lack of burst. I saw him a lot in college, and I was thinking, "Is this the same guy?"

compared to what i saw in college and his first time playing in the preseason to what i'm seeing now i agree. he doesn't look anywhere near as explosive and looks a lot more hesitant than i ever remember. are the injuries he's had a little more severe or lingering than we know?

 

[packersfan]

I actually think the opposite. I think Moreno is the guy they want to be their starter but there's nothing special about him. At his best this season, he's been a slightly better than average RB and that's it. Meanwhile, Buckhalter has looked real good. He makes more things happen as a runner and he's a better receiver. I think the Broncos are realizing they need to utilize Buckhalter more if they want to win because Moreno gives them nothing of substance. That sucks for Moreno owners but as I posted above, it's the smart thing for the team to do. Buckhalter needs to be getting 15 or so touches a game. Moreno doesn't deserve more than 5 or so given how awful he's looked for the past several weeks.

 

[King of the Jungle]

This Moreno dynasty owner is starting to bury his head in the sand.

 

[SCT]

I actually think the opposite. I think Moreno is the guy they want to be their starter but there's nothing special about him. At his best this season, he's been a slightly better than average RB and that's it. Meanwhile, Buckhalter has looked real good. He makes more things happen as a runner and he's a better receiver. I think the Broncos are realizing they need to utilize Buckhalter more if they want to win because Moreno gives them nothing of substance. That sucks for Moreno owners but as I posted above, it's the smart thing for the team to do. Buckhalter needs to be getting 15 or so touches a game. Moreno doesn't deserve more than 5 or so given how awful he's looked for the past several weeks.

If Moreno is the guy they wanted to be their starter, why then has he never started with the exception of the game Buckhalter was inactive? If you look at series by series throughout the season you will see that CBuck was in place to be the man (or at least a 50/50), but one game was injured, then sat out a game, then came back and was dinged in the 2nd half of his first game back. Those three games were where Moreno saw the 2-1 ratio. At best, I think they intended a 50/50 RBBC and the starting nod always went to CBuck with the one exception.

 

[packersfan]

I actually think the opposite. I think Moreno is the guy they want to be their starter but there's nothing special about him. At his best this season, he's been a slightly better than average RB and that's it. Meanwhile, Buckhalter has looked real good. He makes more things happen as a runner and he's a better receiver. I think the Broncos are realizing they need to utilize Buckhalter more if they want to win because Moreno gives them nothing of substance. That sucks for Moreno owners but as I posted above, it's the smart thing for the team to do. Buckhalter needs to be getting 15 or so touches a game. Moreno doesn't deserve more than 5 or so given how awful he's looked for the past several weeks.

If Moreno is the guy they wanted to be their starter, why then has he never started with the exception of the game Buckhalter was inactive? If you look at series by series throughout the season you will see that CBuck was in place to be the man (or at least a 50/50), but one game was injured, then sat out a game, then came back and was dinged in the 2nd half of his first game back. Those three games were where Moreno saw the 2-1 ratio. At best, I think they intended a 50/50 RBBC and the starting nod always went to CBuck with the one exception.

Prior to last night's game, Moreno had gotten more rushing attempts in every game he and Buckhalter had played together. He has gotten more than 15 rushing attempts in four games. Buckhalter has never gotten 15 or more and has double-digit carries only twice. Having watched every game as well, I think it's clear Moreno is the guy the Broncos want to be their starter. But his utter failure to do anything the past three weeks combined with the fact Buckhalter has consistently outperformed him has caused them to re-visit the situation. Again, that sucks for Moreno owners but I applaud the Broncos for not being stubborn with their prized first-round pick and realizing that, to be perfectly honest, he looks like an awful RB right now and doesn't deserve to be on the field.

 

[LHUCKS]

This Moreno dynasty owner is starting to bury his head in the sand.

 

[basher]

This Moreno dynasty owner is starting to bury his head in the sand.

Buckhalter is 31. Moreno is their future and he has a great o-line. His game might become something more predicated on consistency over explosiveness but he will be just fine.