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Moreno or Wells (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter LHUCKS
- Start date
Tanner9919
Footballguy
Moreno will be hard-pressed to get more than ,say, 150 carries this season..will he ever develop into a Portis-type 300+ carry RB? probably not , at least not with McDaniels coaching staff..but he'll catch a lot of passes, if that's your thing...
Wells, if he stays healthy ( a mighty big if), will be the starting RB in Az who is more likely to carry the ball 325+ times and become the focal point of the Az offense..problem is, he's fragile, and he's a soft player - he doesn't like to play hurt , apparently..
however, playing in the defensively-challenged NFC West does help!!
I think Moreno is more of a complete back..with the right coaching staff and playbook, he could be a top 5 RB..but as it is now, he's just one of 6 RB's on the Denver roster...
seems like his talent(s) might be wasted by a massive 6-way RBBC...we know McDaniels is a huge RBBC guy..
Wells, if he stays healthy ( a mighty big if), will be the starting RB in Az who is more likely to carry the ball 325+ times and become the focal point of the Az offense..problem is, he's fragile, and he's a soft player - he doesn't like to play hurt , apparently..
however, playing in the defensively-challenged NFC West does help!!
I think Moreno is more of a complete back..with the right coaching staff and playbook, he could be a top 5 RB..but as it is now, he's just one of 6 RB's on the Denver roster...
seems like his talent(s) might be wasted by a massive 6-way RBBC...we know McDaniels is a huge RBBC guy..
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comfortably numb
Footballguy
This RBBC in Den is gonna be good shtick all camp long.A new coach in a new town doesn't draft the highest rated RB in the draft at #12, on a team that has NO clear cut starter, and give him less than 10 carries per game. I just don't see it. Barring any injury Moreno should see at least 220-250 carries IMO, good for 14-15 carries per game.Moreno will be hard-pressed to get more than ,say, 150 carries this season..will he ever develop into a Portis-type 300+ carry RB? probably not , at least not with McDaniels coaching staff..but he'll catch a lot of passes, if that's your thing...
I think Moreno is more of a complete back..with the right coaching staff and playbook, he could be a top 5 RB..but as it is now, he's just one of 6 RB's on the Denver roster...
seems like his talent(s) might be wasted by a massive 6-way RBBC...we know McDaniels is a huge RBBC guy..
Last years Rookie backs total carries
315 Forte
239 KSmith
268 Slaton
251 CJohnson
183 Stewart
113 Dmac
Dmac was hurt and got 113 carries, Stewart had 183 carries, and he had you know, the highest scoring RB in the league last year.
Color me SHOCKED if Moreno doesn't start day 1 and get 220+ carries.
inzanitee
Footballguy
I like them both, think Wells is more explosive. Durability is the only issue for me, and really I think him being labeled "soft" is overblown -- Ohio State coaches were asked if they thought Wells was genuinely injured and they said yes.
Moreno has better hands and is a very complete RB. I think they'll both be very good. I say Wells but it's close.
Moreno has better hands and is a very complete RB. I think they'll both be very good. I say Wells but it's close.
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SteevieG
Footballguy
This RBBC in Den is gonna be good shtick all camp long.A new coach in a new town doesn't draft the highest rated RB in the draft at #12, on a team that has NO clear cut starter, and give him less than 10 carries per game. I just don't see it. Barring any injury Moreno should see at least 220-250 carries IMO, good for 14-15 carries per game.Moreno will be hard-pressed to get more than ,say, 150 carries this season..will he ever develop into a Portis-type 300+ carry RB? probably not , at least not with McDaniels coaching staff..but he'll catch a lot of passes, if that's your thing...
I think Moreno is more of a complete back..with the right coaching staff and playbook, he could be a top 5 RB..but as it is now, he's just one of 6 RB's on the Denver roster...
seems like his talent(s) might be wasted by a massive 6-way RBBC...we know McDaniels is a huge RBBC guy..
Last years Rookie backs total carries
315 Forte
239 KSmith
268 Slaton
251 CJohnson
183 Stewart
113 Dmac
Dmac was hurt and got 113 carries, Stewart had 183 carries, and he had you know, the highest scoring RB in the league last year.
Color me SHOCKED if Moreno doesn't start day 1 and get 220+ carries.
I will go with Wells. Whisenhunt is now calling the plays and he made Parker a star for a year. What will he do with an ultimate target. Wells wont be the main focus of the D and will have alot of big plays. I think he can catch the ball and was not asked to at Ohio State
I think Moreno is a good back but there is lots of things I dont like. I can just see another Laurence Maroney situation arising with McDaniels in the end and why I go Wells across the board. Add in the competition there at this point also. Orton wont open things up like Warner will either. I also like that Arizona is the powerhouse O. Hightower had 10 TD's last year and Wells gets the TD's.
I think both are talented. Coming into the draft, they split the vote on who was #1. I think after the draft though, that the situation goes to Beanie.
I also like the argument I heard about Moreno in college had a great player in Stafford to take the pressure off. Wells had no one really and faced 8 man fronts and still produced. What will he do with 7 man fronts.
I think Moreno is a good back but there is lots of things I dont like. I can just see another Laurence Maroney situation arising with McDaniels in the end and why I go Wells across the board. Add in the competition there at this point also. Orton wont open things up like Warner will either. I also like that Arizona is the powerhouse O. Hightower had 10 TD's last year and Wells gets the TD's.
I think both are talented. Coming into the draft, they split the vote on who was #1. I think after the draft though, that the situation goes to Beanie.
I also like the argument I heard about Moreno in college had a great player in Stafford to take the pressure off. Wells had no one really and faced 8 man fronts and still produced. What will he do with 7 man fronts.
sparkky
Footballguy
I think I prefer the skills of Moreno but like the situation of Wells better. I'm concerned how McD will use all the backs in Denver.
ETA:
Wells blocking ability will play a part in determining his playing time I think. I don't know how much he was required to block in college, probably not much if I was guessing.
ETA:
Wells blocking ability will play a part in determining his playing time I think. I don't know how much he was required to block in college, probably not much if I was guessing.
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Maybe not "blazing" speed, but to be fair I can't think of another top back in the league that clocked in at a 4.6. Most of the elite backs in the league are at a minimum sub-4.5 guys. That's not to say that I don't think Moreno will succeed, but his lack of speed is a definite concern IMO.
Warhogs
Footballguy
As a guy owning 1.1 in a dynasty league I am very interested in hearing this debate. A couple of things I want to add.
1- I think the injury prone/soft label for Wells is overblown around here. He certainly had his fair share of injuries but he missed a total of 3 games in college when he sprained his foot last year. He did miss parts of a couple other games with a concussion (did the medical staff hold him out?), and I think he missed part of another game with a hand injury (don't know if this game was a blowout or anything like that). I hope this information is accurate as I was reading this on NFL.com about his injuries. To my knowledge that is it.
2- I don't follow these guys in college very closely. I would be interested in hearing if either of these guys may have a large transition to a new system (such as this guy ran behind a FB in college but in the pros will be always running out of a spread). I don't know what might be there but these sorts of things could factor into trying to grade out these two guys.
1- I think the injury prone/soft label for Wells is overblown around here. He certainly had his fair share of injuries but he missed a total of 3 games in college when he sprained his foot last year. He did miss parts of a couple other games with a concussion (did the medical staff hold him out?), and I think he missed part of another game with a hand injury (don't know if this game was a blowout or anything like that). I hope this information is accurate as I was reading this on NFL.com about his injuries. To my knowledge that is it.
2- I don't follow these guys in college very closely. I would be interested in hearing if either of these guys may have a large transition to a new system (such as this guy ran behind a FB in college but in the pros will be always running out of a spread). I don't know what might be there but these sorts of things could factor into trying to grade out these two guys.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Wells in non-PPR
Moreno in PPR
As a side note, I think you're seeing the days of the 325+ carry back coming quickly to a close. The game is far to physical for that now and it shortens the life of your running backs. Most if not all teams, are going to gravitate toward a RBBC with the "lead" back getting not much more than 300 carries.
Along those lines, I sure wish the Vikes would give AP less carries and Chester some more. Same with Turner and Norwood.
Moreno in PPR
As a side note, I think you're seeing the days of the 325+ carry back coming quickly to a close. The game is far to physical for that now and it shortens the life of your running backs. Most if not all teams, are going to gravitate toward a RBBC with the "lead" back getting not much more than 300 carries.
Along those lines, I sure wish the Vikes would give AP less carries and Chester some more. Same with Turner and Norwood.
Tenacious D
Footballguy
A new coach in a new town doesn't run the franchise QB out of town either, so, give it a name.McDaniels continued the tradition of a frustrating RBBC in NE. He's not Shanny, but then again Shanny didn't run a RBBC when he had talented and sturdy enough runners, either. On the other hand, the only NFL offense McDaniels knows and the mentality he carried on was mixing it up is integral and system over talent. McDaniels is already a disaster. Moreno has some challenges ahead the next few years.Wells won the fantasy jackpot of the draft. Even if you think he's only an average talent, he is in such a good situation it jacks his potential.comfortably numb said:
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
comfortably numb said:This RBBC in Den is gonna be good shtick all camp long.A new coach in a new town doesn't draft the highest rated RB in the draft at #12, on a team that has NO clear cut starter, and give him less than 10 carries per game. I just don't see it. Barring any injury Moreno should see at least 220-250 carries IMO, good for 14-15 carries per game.Moreno will be hard-pressed to get more than ,say, 150 carries this season..will he ever develop into a Portis-type 300+ carry RB? probably not , at least not with McDaniels coaching staff..but he'll catch a lot of passes, if that's your thing...
I think Moreno is more of a complete back..with the right coaching staff and playbook, he could be a top 5 RB..but as it is now, he's just one of 6 RB's on the Denver roster...
seems like his talent(s) might be wasted by a massive 6-way RBBC...we know McDaniels is a huge RBBC guy..
Last years Rookie backs total carries
315 Forte
239 KSmith
268 Slaton
251 CJohnson
183 Stewart
113 Dmac
Dmac was hurt and got 113 carries, Stewart had 183 carries, and he had you know, the highest scoring RB in the league last year.
Color me SHOCKED if Moreno doesn't start day 1 and get 220+ carries.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Yeah people need to stop this "McDaniels <3's RBBC" shtick. He has one year as an OC on a team that had no standout RB and while he had no say in personnel decisions. More importantly, they drafted a RB @ 1.12. That fact alone is much more relevant than who was on the NE RB depth chart while McDaniels was calling the plays.
EBF
Footballguy
I'm in a lot of leagues. I have lots of early firsts and lots of late ones.Wells won't be on any of my teams.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Big Kahuna
Footballguy
Neither. Give me McCoy for dynasty leagues.
BoltzNBrew
Footballguy
Anybody watch NFLN anymore? AZ plans to use Wells as primarily a 2 down back, DEN plans to use Kno as an everydown back.
Now, anybody see AZ play last year? LHUCKS? They like to throw the ball, a lot, and as long as Warner is back there that is what they will do. I can see them trying to run more but for a team that ran for 1178 yards I dont see how in the hell people can love the situation more than Moreno's. I just don't see it. Sounds to me like a bunch of you are picking 2nd or 3rd and are trying to hype Wells' value so Crabtree and Moreno fall...lol
As for Moreno....DEN kept the OL coaches and RB coaches. Add to that McDaniels, as the NE O Coordinator, finished 6th in Rushing. (AZ was dead last BTW).
I know this is a Wells/Moreno discussion but....Polin said INDY would be using 2 backs like they did in their run to the SB.
Now, anybody see AZ play last year? LHUCKS? They like to throw the ball, a lot, and as long as Warner is back there that is what they will do. I can see them trying to run more but for a team that ran for 1178 yards I dont see how in the hell people can love the situation more than Moreno's. I just don't see it. Sounds to me like a bunch of you are picking 2nd or 3rd and are trying to hype Wells' value so Crabtree and Moreno fall...lol
As for Moreno....DEN kept the OL coaches and RB coaches. Add to that McDaniels, as the NE O Coordinator, finished 6th in Rushing. (AZ was dead last BTW).
I know this is a Wells/Moreno discussion but....Polin said INDY would be using 2 backs like they did in their run to the SB.
Multiple Scores
Footballguy
Who do you like to have a better season this year and beyond, Knowshon Moreno or Cedric Benson? I'll take Moreno, how about you?
Warhogs
Footballguy
Good point here. Honestly, as I compare the two this is probably my greatest concern. Can Arizona run block well enough to allow Beanie a chance to push for 1500 yards? I suspect Beanie can get phased into the passing game but most NFL RBs take a few years to develop into decent pass catchers.
foxco
Footballguy
They won't be stacking the line of scrimmage in Zona, that's for sure.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Wisenhunt has stated several times he wants a more balanced attack...Warner was lucky to escape the season relatively unscathed last year...very lucky.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
While we can debate all day long who is better, history indicates that the higher floor rests with Moreno. That's not to say he'll be the best choice of the 1st round RBs, but we can be sure he won't be the worst.
In the last 10 years, the following RBs were selected first of the RBs in their draft classes. In parentheses I've put the other 1st round RB choices. Make your own determinations as to who would have been best in redraft, dynasty, PPR, etc. That said, it is VERY hard to argue that in any case was another first round RB a better selection in dynasty then the top RB from the class. If you'd known Enis was going to get hurt in the 98 class, of course you take Taylor. Maybe Alexander has been better then Jamal Lewis, but Lewis isn't exactly a slouch plus he's still playing. Maybe LJ over McGahee...? Otherwise, the top RB picked seems to be a pretty safe bet (with the jury still out on McFadden, CJ, Stewart, and co.).
Try as we might, it would appear that the law of statistics sides with the NFL player evaluators more then the football fan-pundits who out-think themselves.
1998: Enis (F.Taylor, Edwards, Avery)
1999: James (Williams)
2000: Lewis (T.Jones, Dayne, ALexander, Candidate)
2001: Tomlinson (McAllister, Bennett)
2002: Green (Duckett)
2003: McGahee (LJ)
2004: Jackson (Perry, Jones)
2005: Brown (Benson, Cadillac)
2006: Bush (Maroney, Williams, Addai)
2007: Peterson (Lynch)
2008: McFadden (Stewart, Jones, Johnson, Mendenhall)
2009: Moreno (Brown, Wells)
In the last 10 years, the following RBs were selected first of the RBs in their draft classes. In parentheses I've put the other 1st round RB choices. Make your own determinations as to who would have been best in redraft, dynasty, PPR, etc. That said, it is VERY hard to argue that in any case was another first round RB a better selection in dynasty then the top RB from the class. If you'd known Enis was going to get hurt in the 98 class, of course you take Taylor. Maybe Alexander has been better then Jamal Lewis, but Lewis isn't exactly a slouch plus he's still playing. Maybe LJ over McGahee...? Otherwise, the top RB picked seems to be a pretty safe bet (with the jury still out on McFadden, CJ, Stewart, and co.).
Try as we might, it would appear that the law of statistics sides with the NFL player evaluators more then the football fan-pundits who out-think themselves.
1998: Enis (F.Taylor, Edwards, Avery)
1999: James (Williams)
2000: Lewis (T.Jones, Dayne, ALexander, Candidate)
2001: Tomlinson (McAllister, Bennett)
2002: Green (Duckett)
2003: McGahee (LJ)
2004: Jackson (Perry, Jones)
2005: Brown (Benson, Cadillac)
2006: Bush (Maroney, Williams, Addai)
2007: Peterson (Lynch)
2008: McFadden (Stewart, Jones, Johnson, Mendenhall)
2009: Moreno (Brown, Wells)
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LHUCKS
Footballguy
I agree to an extent. I think the major difference of opinion lies in year one, not so much at the dynasty level.It is interesting that several NFL teams had Wells graded out higher than Moreno...per Mayock.
BoltzNBrew
Footballguy
Good point(s)...Longer term who knows. Warner goes down and Leinart comes in it changes the whole dynamic of their attack. I have no doubt they are going to run more, still not sure that would sway me to take Wells over Moreno #1 in Dynasty. TD only leagues maybe...
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
I think it's easy to see why some teams had Wells higher. I like Moreno more, but I don't think the difference is that great and some of it comes down to preferences: Wells is more of a banger while Moreno seems to have more moves. If you said one of them was going to score 13 TDs this year and that the other would rush for 1300 yards, I'm not sure who I would match up with which stat. THey both have a chance to be good players. I think Moreno has a bit higher ceiling, but it's a pretty negligible difference.
maxwelledison
Footballguy
Deangelo Williams is, imo, a whole hell of a lot better than anyone else listed that year. And the jury is very much out on the 2008 1st round class.
