Mortenson Notes from Sportscenter (1 Viewer)

[Finatic]

I think the potential winner in the MJ hype could be the team that needs a TE.Heath Miller now might be the 2nd TE taken.His offseason hernia surgery has rendered him unable to work out for teams,thus he is starting to drop in some circles.In fact in some of the more recent mocks,he is not even in the 1st round anymore.The team looking to steal Heath(The only true TE STUD) could benefit from the MJ hype

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I think the potential winner in the MJ hype could be the team that needs a TE.Heath Miller now might be the 2nd TE taken.His offseason hernia surgery has rendered him unable to work out for teams,thus he is starting to drop in some circles.In fact in some of the more recent mocks,he is not even in the 1st round anymore.The team looking to steal Heath(The only true TE STUD) could benefit from the MJ hype

I hear Pittsburgh is VERY interested in Miller...

 

[coolbeans59]

Antonio Bryant was a much more productive COLLEGE WR than Andre Johnson.  I think that at the time he was in college there were probably quite a few people thinking he was one of the all-time greatest college WRs.  Andre Johnson in college was extremely unpolished had major questions about his route running ability it was at the scouting combine that he vaulted himself high into the 1st round.  If you think Andre Johnson was a better college WR I really question the amount of college football you were watching at the time.

DeAngelo Hall was asked a year ago who was the best WR he ever faced (the ESPN guy who asked it was expecting Larry Fitzgerald to be the answer), without skipping a beat he answered Andre Johnson. He said he had the size/strength to outmuscle for a ball AND the speed to make him pay for a bad move.I'll trust a guy who played against all three, over a dude who watches college football games from the stands that gives opinions on a freakin' message board.

 

[pgreenfan]

Antonio Bryant was a much more productive COLLEGE WR than Andre Johnson.  I think that at the time he was in college there were probably quite a few people thinking he was one of the all-time greatest college WRs.  Andre Johnson in college was extremely unpolished had major questions about his route running ability it was at the scouting combine that he vaulted himself high into the 1st round.  If you think Andre Johnson was a better college WR I really question the amount of college football you were watching at the time.

DeAngelo Hall was asked a year ago who was the best WR he ever faced (the ESPN guy who asked it was expecting Larry Fitzgerald to be the answer), without skipping a beat he answered Andre Johnson. He said he had the size/strength to outmuscle for a ball AND the speed to make him pay for a bad move.I'll trust a guy who played against all three, over a dude who watches college football games from the stands that gives opinions on a freakin' message board.

I am sorry but I stand by my statement that Bryant was a better WR in college than Johnson. Johnson had much greater physical ability but he wasn't polished, could he make a huge play? Yes, was he as consistent as Bryant? No. Do I think that Johnson was the harder guy to cover because of his physical abilities? Yes.

 

[stbugs]

Antonio Bryant was a much more productive COLLEGE WR than Andre Johnson.  I think that at the time he was in college there were probably quite a few people thinking he was one of the all-time greatest college WRs.  Andre Johnson in college was extremely unpolished had major questions about his route running ability it was at the scouting combine that he vaulted himself high into the 1st round.  If you think Andre Johnson was a better college WR I really question the amount of college football you were watching at the time.

DeAngelo Hall was asked a year ago who was the best WR he ever faced (the ESPN guy who asked it was expecting Larry Fitzgerald to be the answer), without skipping a beat he answered Andre Johnson. He said he had the size/strength to outmuscle for a ball AND the speed to make him pay for a bad move.I'll trust a guy who played against all three, over a dude who watches college football games from the stands that gives opinions on a freakin' message board.

I am sorry but I stand by my statement that Bryant was a better WR in college than Johnson. Johnson had much greater physical ability but he wasn't polished, could he make a huge play? Yes, was he as consistent as Bryant? No. Do I think that Johnson was the harder guy to cover because of his physical abilities? Yes.

Agreed, from the link above:"Antonio Bryant, the winner of the Biletnikoff Award as the top receiver in the country, caught five passes for 155 yards, including touchdowns of 72 and 44 yards, for Pittsburgh (7-5)."

Just because Bryant was a better college receiver doesn't mean that he was going to be a better pro or was a higher draft pick than Johnson. I am a Johnson homer, but Bryant was the top college receiver and he dropped to the 2nd round because of attitude and slow combine numbers. It still doesn't mean he wasn't the most productive in college.

 

[pgreenfan]

Antonio Bryant was a much more productive COLLEGE WR than Andre Johnson.  I think that at the time he was in college there were probably quite a few people thinking he was one of the all-time greatest college WRs.  Andre Johnson in college was extremely unpolished had major questions about his route running ability it was at the scouting combine that he vaulted himself high into the 1st round.  If you think Andre Johnson was a better college WR I really question the amount of college football you were watching at the time.

DeAngelo Hall was asked a year ago who was the best WR he ever faced (the ESPN guy who asked it was expecting Larry Fitzgerald to be the answer), without skipping a beat he answered Andre Johnson. He said he had the size/strength to outmuscle for a ball AND the speed to make him pay for a bad move.I'll trust a guy who played against all three, over a dude who watches college football games from the stands that gives opinions on a freakin' message board.

I am sorry but I stand by my statement that Bryant was a better WR in college than Johnson. Johnson had much greater physical ability but he wasn't polished, could he make a huge play? Yes, was he as consistent as Bryant? No. Do I think that Johnson was the harder guy to cover because of his physical abilities? Yes.

Agreed, from the link above:"Antonio Bryant, the winner of the Biletnikoff Award as the top receiver in the country, caught five passes for 155 yards, including touchdowns of 72 and 44 yards, for Pittsburgh (7-5)."

Just because Bryant was a better college receiver doesn't mean that he was going to be a better pro or was a higher draft pick than Johnson. I am a Johnson homer, but Bryant was the top college receiver and he dropped to the 2nd round because of attitude and slow combine numbers. It still doesn't mean he wasn't the most productive in college.

IIRC Bryant also had the most consecutive games with a catch in college or it could have been most consecutive games with td catch, which was later broken by Fitzgerald.

 

[Bojang0301]

http://www.gbnreport.com/guestfile.html

Good read

 

[Bob Magaw]

since randle-el's name pops up in QB/WR conversion comps...jones is about...8" taller (6'6" vs. 5'10")50 lbs heavier (approx 240 vs. 190)ran about a tenth of a second faster (4.37 vs. 4.45)VJ 7.5" higher (39.5" vs. 32")BJ over 2' longer (10'9" vs. 8'6")nearly identical 3 cone drill & 20 yard shuttle times... these last tests are important measures of change of direction, which can translate to functional & playing speed needed for football purposes...it is impressive that jones can move so much more bulk & mass with greater speed & approximately the same quickness.

 

[-OZ-]

since randle-el's name pops up in QB/WR conversion comps...

jones is about...

8" taller (6'6" vs. 5'10")

50 lbs heavier (approx 240 vs. 190)

ran about a tenth of a second faster (4.37 vs. 4.45)

VJ 7.5" higher (39.5" vs. 32")

BJ over 2' longer (10'9" vs. 8'6")

nearly identical 3 cone drill & 20 yard shuttle times... these last tests are important measures of change of direction, which can translate to functional & playing speed needed for football purposes...

it is impressive that jones can move so much more bulk & mass with greater speed & approximately the same quickness.

Just curious - how did David Boston compare to Marvin Harrison?Not to say either is the same player, but the tests serve a limited purpose.

 

[Bob Magaw]

since randle-el's name pops up in QB/WR conversion comps...

jones is about...

8" taller (6'6" vs. 5'10")

50 lbs heavier (approx 240 vs. 190)

ran about a tenth of a second faster (4.37 vs. 4.45)

VJ 7.5" higher (39.5" vs. 32")

BJ over 2' longer (10'9" vs. 8'6")

nearly identical 3 cone drill & 20 yard shuttle times... these last tests are important measures of change of direction, which can translate to functional & playing speed needed for football purposes...

it is impressive that jones can move so much more bulk & mass with greater speed & approximately the same quickness.

Just curious - how did David Boston compare to Marvin Harrison?Not to say either is the same player, but the tests serve a limited purpose.

most people would agree that boston's career didn't founder on a lack of physical ability... he looked pretty good when he had that 1,500+ yard season.since than though, he has had a narrow miss on a cocaine possession rap, balooned up to near TE/DE proportions, had multiple leg injuries, got in arguments with his coaches & teammates & has basically relegated himself to the football equivalent of siberia.

as far as we know, jones doesn't have anything remotely like these character concerns & off field issues.

plus randle-el isn't exactly marvin harrison... :^) all i was saying, for those who like randle-el, you may really like jones as he seems to have superior athleticism... seemingly the always difficult to project QB/WR conversion might be viewed as having at least as favorable an outcome.

another difference is boston wasn't anywhere near as big when he came up... probably something in the neighborhood of 215 (he may have been as high as 240 with chargers & dolphins) & wasn't 6'6"... if he had been 6'6" 240, & could get into & out of his cuts as smoothly & gracefully as a marvin harrison (or as the quickest among the elite WRs in a given draft class), i would have said his athleticism was a marvel... whether his name was david boston or matt jones.

 

[Chase Stuart]

http://oinkville.tripod.com/jones70.wmv

http://www.hogcall.com/funstuff/multimedia...-NFLCombine.mpg

You might need to save that link to work, it wouldn't work regularly for me. That link is interesting for three reasons:

1) He looks...interesting. With interesting shoes.

2) The showed three clips of him, all practicing at the senior bowl.

3) It looked like Joe Gibbs and Terry Bradway (Jets GM) were sitting right next to each other, with many empty seats around them. Maybe this was filmed around the time the Coles-Moss trade was going down.

 

[Jason Wood]

since randle-el's name pops up in QB/WR conversion comps...

jones is about...

8" taller (6'6" vs. 5'10")

50 lbs heavier (approx 240 vs. 190)

ran about a tenth of a second faster (4.37 vs. 4.45)

VJ 7.5" higher (39.5" vs. 32")

BJ over 2' longer (10'9" vs. 8'6")

nearly identical 3 cone drill & 20 yard shuttle times... these last tests are important measures of change of direction, which can translate to functional & playing speed needed for football purposes...

it is impressive that jones can move so much more bulk & mass with greater speed & approximately the same quickness.

Just curious - how did David Boston compare to Marvin Harrison?Not to say either is the same player, but the tests serve a limited purpose.

most people would agree that boston's career didn't founder on a lack of physical ability... he looked pretty good when he had that 1,500+ yard season.since than though, he has had a narrow miss on a cocaine possession rap, balooned up to near TE/DE proportions, had multiple leg injuries, got in arguments with his coaches & teammates & has basically relegated himself to the football equivalent of siberia.

as far as we know, jones doesn't have anything remotely like these character concerns & off field issues.

plus randle-el isn't exactly marvin harrison... :^) all i was saying, for those who like randle-el, you may really like jones as he seems to have superior athleticism... seemingly the always difficult to project QB/WR conversion might be viewed as having at least as favorable an outcome.

another difference is boston wasn't anywhere near as big when he came up... probably something in the neighborhood of 215 (he may have been as high as 240 with chargers & dolphins) & wasn't 6'6"... if he had been 6'6" 240, & could get into & out of his cuts as smoothly & gracefully as a marvin harrison (or as the quickest among the elite WRs in a given draft class), i would have said his athleticism was a marvel... whether his name was david boston or matt jones.

Hey Bob,All valid points. But, why is Randel El suddenly the benchmark? Randel El is a nice player who fits in as a reliable slot receiver on a team that doesn't throw the ball a ton. While Steelers fans no doubt view Randel El in great terms, this isn't a guy that, to this point, has played at a level that justifies the use of a 2nd round pick. So simply to show that Jones is a more intriguing athlete than Randel El HARDLY, IMHO, justifies whether he should be worth a 1st/2nd round selection.

 

[-OZ-]

since randle-el's name pops up in QB/WR conversion comps...

jones is about...

8" taller (6'6" vs. 5'10")

50 lbs heavier (approx 240 vs. 190)

ran about a tenth of a second faster (4.37 vs. 4.45)

VJ 7.5" higher (39.5" vs. 32")

BJ over 2' longer (10'9" vs. 8'6")

nearly identical 3 cone drill & 20 yard shuttle times... these last tests are important measures of change of direction, which can translate to functional & playing speed needed for football purposes...

it is impressive that jones can move so much more bulk & mass with greater speed & approximately the same quickness.

Just curious - how did David Boston compare to Marvin Harrison?Not to say either is the same player, but the tests serve a limited purpose.

most people would agree that boston's career didn't founder on a lack of physical ability... he looked pretty good when he had that 1,500+ yard season.since than though, he has had a narrow miss on a cocaine possession rap, balooned up to near TE/DE proportions, had multiple leg injuries, got in arguments with his coaches & teammates & has basically relegated himself to the football equivalent of siberia.

as far as we know, jones doesn't have anything remotely like these character concerns & off field issues.

plus randle-el isn't exactly marvin harrison... :^) all i was saying, for those who like randle-el, you may really like jones as he seems to have superior athleticism... seemingly the always difficult to project QB/WR conversion might be viewed as having at least as favorable an outcome.

another difference is boston wasn't anywhere near as big when he came up... probably something in the neighborhood of 215 (he may have been as high as 240 with chargers & dolphins) & wasn't 6'6"... if he had been 6'6" 240, & could get into & out of his cuts as smoothly & gracefully as a marvin harrison (or as the quickest among the elite WRs in a given draft class), i would have said his athleticism was a marvel... whether his name was david boston or matt jones.

Hey Bob,All valid points. But, why is Randel El suddenly the benchmark? Randel El is a nice player who fits in as a reliable slot receiver on a team that doesn't throw the ball a ton. While Steelers fans no doubt view Randel El in great terms, this isn't a guy that, to this point, has played at a level that justifies the use of a 2nd round pick. So simply to show that Jones is a more intriguing athlete than Randel El HARDLY, IMHO, justifies whether he should be worth a 1st/2nd round selection.

I'm not sure if I'm the only one mentioning that I see Jones as a bigger ARE, but I'm pretty sure Bob is refferring to me as an ARE fan - I'm a huge fan of his. IMO they are similar in how raw they are for the position despite being among the most athleticly gifted players in the game (ARE doesn't match Jones's measurables, but watch the guy play), granted there have been others who have made the transition. My point is simply that it's taken ARE 3 years to learn the position before (I assume) getting his chance to be the #2 in Pittsburgh. Maybe Jones will land in a better spot, but then maybe the pressure of having to perform immediately is worse than being the #3, special teams player, and "X-factor". What little I have seen of Jones doesn't give me faith that he'll step in and perform immediately as a WR.

My other point is all the tests in the combine don't amount to much in the end. I don't care if a guy is 6'4", runs a 4.1 40, benches 225 40 times, can jump over builidings with a single bound, etc. if he can't catch the ball and run decent routes. (I'm not saying he can't, but I want to see that he can)

All that said, his physical gifts are enough to make him worthy of taking a risk on when the value presents itself. Some have said they'd take him above Mark Clayton though, which to me is insane, he's probably somewhere around the #6-8 WR.

To address Wood's point - at least IMO, ARE is well worth the 2nd round pick spent on him, not purely as a WR, but he brings a lot to the game in other areas as well. If Jones can do the same (he probably can) he'll be worth the NFL team's 2nd rounder, just don't expect a big FF impact immediately.

 

[nightshift]

Most of you are assuming he plays WR.What if he plays TE???

 

[-OZ-]

Most of you are assuming he plays WR.

What if he plays TE???

He'd probably be a very good receiving TE, but can he block well enough?If he's going to be blocking the OLB or DE he'll have to bulk up from 240. I'm not sure who the lightest TE is, but Shockey, Clark and Heap are all 250+ - those aren't exactly elite blockers either. Compared to (IMO) one of the best blockers in the game, Jason Dunn, Jones is 26 pounds lighter.

I'd be concerned that as a TE he'll take too much of a pounding at his current weight.

 

[nightshift]

Most of you are assuming he plays WR.

What if he plays TE???

He'd probably be a very good receiving TE, but can he block well enough?If he's going to be blocking the OLB or DE he'll have to bulk up from 240. I'm not sure who the lightest TE is, but Shockey, Clark and Heap are all 250+ - those aren't exactly elite blockers either. Compared to (IMO) one of the best blockers in the game, Jason Dunn, Jones is 26 pounds lighter.

I'd be concerned that as a TE he'll take too much of a pounding at his current weight.

Gonzo is 248, but at 6'4". Gates is 260. To put 10-20 lbs on in the NFL is very doable. I don't think any team that puts him in the TE position is expecting killer blocking. Although with this guy, I won't underestimate him to do anything.

 

[pgreenfan]

Most of you are assuming he plays WR.

What if he plays TE???

He'd probably be a very good receiving TE, but can he block well enough?If he's going to be blocking the OLB or DE he'll have to bulk up from 240. I'm not sure who the lightest TE is, but Shockey, Clark and Heap are all 250+ - those aren't exactly elite blockers either. Compared to (IMO) one of the best blockers in the game, Jason Dunn, Jones is 26 pounds lighter.

I'd be concerned that as a TE he'll take too much of a pounding at his current weight.

Gonzo is 248, but at 6'4". Gates is 260. To put 10-20 lbs on in the NFL is very doable. I don't think any team that puts him in the TE position is expecting killer blocking. Although with this guy, I won't underestimate him to do anything.

I think the transition from QB to WR would be much easier than QB to TE. I think that the blocking aspect of TE would take quite a bit longer to learn.

 

[Jason Wood]

Most of you are assuming he plays WR.

What if he plays TE???

Hey nightshift,I think teams aren't looking at him as a TE because Jones himself has openly questioned the logic of it. From Mort's article:

Some NFL teams have tried to peg him [Matt Jones] as a tight end or H-back because of his size. Jones has been truthful with NFL teams that have spoken with him. He's reluctant to play tight end.

"You know, it's funny," one AFC head coach told me last week. "We asked [Jones] about putting on some weight and playing tight end, and he made it clear that he thought it was foolish. He said, 'So you want me to put on 20 pounds and be a 4.57 guy instead of a 4.37 guy?' When you put that into context, you have to admit he makes sense. Match up a 6-6 guy who is that fast and athletic with great hands on any corner – even the tall ones – and how do you stop him?"

 

[Hawk]

Man, Mort has a serious man-crush going on Jones. He's a good and intriguing player, but acting like he could score 10-12 TD's in his sleep his rookie year is a bit over the top. And Mort's memory is a bit fuzzy as well in reference to the Texas-Ark game. I think Benson had like 200 yards and 2 TDs while Jones had a couple of picks and a fumble that pretty much sealed the game for Texas. I wouldn't spend 1st round money on a project like Jones, but I might take him in the second.

 

[Family Matters]

Man, Mort has a serious man-crush going on Jones. He's a good and intriguing player, but acting like he could score 10-12 TD's in his sleep his rookie year is a bit over the top. And Mort's memory is a bit fuzzy as well in reference to the Texas-Ark game. I think Benson had like 200 yards and 2 TDs while Jones had a couple of picks and a fumble that pretty much sealed the game for Texas. I wouldn't spend 1st round money on a project like Jones, but I might take him in the second.

Isn't the second where the experts are projecting him? 1st is clearly a major reach when you consider the talent that's out there.

 

[Bob Magaw]

since randle-el's name pops up in QB/WR conversion comps...

jones is about...

8" taller (6'6" vs. 5'10")

50 lbs heavier (approx 240 vs. 190)

ran about a tenth of a second faster (4.37 vs. 4.45)

VJ 7.5" higher (39.5" vs. 32")

BJ over 2' longer (10'9" vs. 8'6")

nearly identical 3 cone drill & 20 yard shuttle times... these last tests are important measures of change of direction, which can translate to functional & playing speed needed for football purposes...

it is impressive that jones can move so much more bulk & mass with greater speed & approximately the same quickness.

Just curious - how did David Boston compare to Marvin Harrison?Not to say either is the same player, but the tests serve a limited purpose.

most people would agree that boston's career didn't founder on a lack of physical ability... he looked pretty good when he had that 1,500+ yard season.since than though, he has had a narrow miss on a cocaine possession rap, balooned up to near TE/DE proportions, had multiple leg injuries, got in arguments with his coaches & teammates & has basically relegated himself to the football equivalent of siberia.

as far as we know, jones doesn't have anything remotely like these character concerns & off field issues.

plus randle-el isn't exactly marvin harrison... :^) all i was saying, for those who like randle-el, you may really like jones as he seems to have superior athleticism... seemingly the always difficult to project QB/WR conversion might be viewed as having at least as favorable an outcome.

another difference is boston wasn't anywhere near as big when he came up... probably something in the neighborhood of 215 (he may have been as high as 240 with chargers & dolphins) & wasn't 6'6"... if he had been 6'6" 240, & could get into & out of his cuts as smoothly & gracefully as a marvin harrison (or as the quickest among the elite WRs in a given draft class), i would have said his athleticism was a marvel... whether his name was david boston or matt jones.

Hey Bob,All valid points. But, why is Randel El suddenly the benchmark? Randel El is a nice player who fits in as a reliable slot receiver on a team that doesn't throw the ball a ton. While Steelers fans no doubt view Randel El in great terms, this isn't a guy that, to this point, has played at a level that justifies the use of a 2nd round pick. So simply to show that Jones is a more intriguing athlete than Randel El HARDLY, IMHO, justifies whether he should be worth a 1st/2nd round selection.

hey jason,thanx for the feedback... i used randle-el as a comp player because he is a recent example who made the QB/WR conversion relatively successfully. like you, i don't think randle-el is the second coming of jerry rice... a dangerous slot WR in the az-hakim vein, & a dangerous punt returner up to now.

would you be more enthused about randle-el, if somehow we could genetically engineer him to become 8" taller, 50 lbs heavier, VJ over half a foot higher, broad jump a full two feet longer, run a tenth of a second faster... BUT KEEP EVERYTHING ELSE INTACT? this is just a thought experiment, but it seems like their cone drill & shuttle times were strikingly similar... these latter tests, which measure the critically important ability of change of direction, arguably hold greater "predictive" value for HOW a WR/DBs athleticism will translate to the football field than just the raw 40 time (which don't get me wrong, is extremely impressive in jones case).

wouldn't randle-el be a different animal than?

wouldn't you start to think of him differently & appreciate him in a new way?

he would be a hulking presence (not dimunitive slot WR) taller than heath miller... faster than braylon edwards... who can jump higher than mike williams.

i am not necessarily saying he is white moss & will get DD TDs in '05... the learning curve could take a couple seasons. that fact alone isn't necessarily incompatible with a top of the second round selection... it used to be that it was expected that it would take most WRs a few seasons to get the hang of the speed & complexity of the game.

i was linking the two QB/WR conversions to suggest that jones, based on his measurables & athleticism, could be better, not the same. so even if randle-el wasn't worth a second in your opinion (not sure i would want to dispute that), it is possible jones could be.

i don't think i mentioned this b4, but i am a lot more excited about jones as a dynasty prospect than a redraft prospect... it is important to make that distinction.

the thing that worries me about the learning curve is route running. than again, & i don't want moss comparison to be taken too literally... but if jones has SOME attributes that appear at a cursory glance to be similar... IF jones makes the transition he immediately becomes one of the more impressive size/speed freaks in the league, given his height, speed, VJ, etc... does moss get props for being a brilliant route runner?

a lot of his TDs are scored on fly patterns where MIN just says... go long randy, & daunte will just chuck it up there, often into the teeth of double coverage... & he goes & gets it anyway because of his world class athleticism.

to recap, i am not saying he is moss... i am saying that athleticism in moss' case has made a lack of polished route running almost irrelevant... he is that much better of an athlete than everybody else.

some have concerns about his hands, but he looks like such a superb athlete that i think good hands are a given. i could be off base, but i think his basketball experience will help his hands... he looks like a natural. his bio said he was a mcdonalds all-american finalist, & he broke corliss williamson state record in scoring ave. per game his junior year.

bob mentioned a few other great athletes that made QB/WR conversion successfully... bert emanual & hines ward. i think terrence mathis was a college QB. anquan boldin was a star prep QB, & while he primarily played WR for florida state, did play some QB in his final year, in the junior season bowl game.

so boldin did have advantage of lots of reps for few seasons at WR position. but he is a good example of how a special athlete shouldn't have too much difficulty learning to catch the ball.

i agree that the route running may not come overnight... which is why i like him more in dynasty leagues.

* EDIT/ADD - not sure if i said anywhere i thought he was deserving of high pick... i'll get to that... but you might have been responding to other strands of the thread where this was surely discussed.

i am still hedging my bets, but the more i look into jones the more i like, so yes, it is looking increasingly like when i am done with my research, i would be comfortable taking him in the top half of the second round somewhere. but if jones goes in the 4th round, all bets are off. i won't like him as much. if he goes between pick 30-40, i'll like him more.

am i being a fair weather fan? that is partly the realist in me acknowledging that professionals break down more film and are in a better position to make an informed decision than i could without comparable resources (a scouting department, film vault, years of training, etc). that isn't to say scouts aren't wrong at times... ryan leaf proves some of criteria used to weigh & judge talent are imperfect, it is as much or more art than science, & imaginative facilty to project where a player will be in a few years come into play at least as much as rigorous quant-type analytical skills.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

since randle-el's name pops up in QB/WR conversion comps...

jones is about...

8" taller (6'6" vs. 5'10")

50 lbs heavier (approx 240 vs. 190)

ran about a tenth of a second faster (4.37 vs. 4.45)

VJ 7.5" higher (39.5" vs. 32")

BJ over 2' longer (10'9" vs. 8'6")

nearly identical 3 cone drill & 20 yard shuttle times... these last tests are important measures of change of direction, which can translate to functional & playing speed needed for football purposes...

it is impressive that jones can move so much more bulk & mass with greater speed & approximately the same quickness.

Just curious - how did David Boston compare to Marvin Harrison?Not to say either is the same player, but the tests serve a limited purpose.

most people would agree that boston's career didn't founder on a lack of physical ability... he looked pretty good when he had that 1,500+ yard season.since than though, he has had a narrow miss on a cocaine possession rap, balooned up to near TE/DE proportions, had multiple leg injuries, got in arguments with his coaches & teammates & has basically relegated himself to the football equivalent of siberia.

as far as we know, jones doesn't have anything remotely like these character concerns & off field issues.

plus randle-el isn't exactly marvin harrison... :^) all i was saying, for those who like randle-el, you may really like jones as he seems to have superior athleticism... seemingly the always difficult to project QB/WR conversion might be viewed as having at least as favorable an outcome.

another difference is boston wasn't anywhere near as big when he came up... probably something in the neighborhood of 215 (he may have been as high as 240 with chargers & dolphins) & wasn't 6'6"... if he had been 6'6" 240, & could get into & out of his cuts as smoothly & gracefully as a marvin harrison (or as the quickest among the elite WRs in a given draft class), i would have said his athleticism was a marvel... whether his name was david boston or matt jones.

Hey Bob,All valid points. But, why is Randel El suddenly the benchmark? Randel El is a nice player who fits in as a reliable slot receiver on a team that doesn't throw the ball a ton. While Steelers fans no doubt view Randel El in great terms, this isn't a guy that, to this point, has played at a level that justifies the use of a 2nd round pick. So simply to show that Jones is a more intriguing athlete than Randel El HARDLY, IMHO, justifies whether he should be worth a 1st/2nd round selection.

hey jason,thanx for the feedback... i used randle-el as a comp player because he is a recent example who made the QB/WR conversion relatively successfully. like you, i don't think randle-el is the second coming of jerry rice... a dangerous slot WR in the az-hakim vein, & a dangerous punt returner up to now.

would you be more enthused about randle-el, if somehow we could genetically engineer him to become 8" taller, 50 lbs heavier, VJ over half a foot higher, broad jump a full two feet longer, run a tenth of a second faster... BUT KEEP EVERYTHING ELSE INTACT? this is just a thought experiment, but it seems like their cone drill & shuttle times were strikingly similar... these latter tests, which measure the critically important ability of change of direction, arguably hold greater "predictive" value for HOW a WR/DBs athleticism will translate to the football field than just the raw 40 time (which don't get me wrong, is extremely impressive in jones case).

wouldn't randle-el be a different animal than?

wouldn't you start to think of him differently & appreciate him in a new way?

he would be a hulking presence (not dimunitive slot WR) taller than heath miller... faster than braylon edwards... who can jump higher than mike williams.

i am not necessarily saying he is white moss & will get DD TDs in '05... the learning curve could take a couple seasons. that fact alone isn't necessarily incompatible with a top of the second round selection... it used to be that it was expected that it would take most WRs a few seasons to get the hang of the speed & complexity of the game.

i was linking the two QB/WR conversions to suggest that jones, based on his measurables & athleticism, could be better, not the same. so even if randle-el wasn't worth a second in your opinion (not sure i would want to dispute that), it is possible jones could be.

i don't think i mentioned this b4, but i am a lot more excited about jones as a dynasty prospect than a redraft prospect... it is important to make that distinction.

the thing that worries me about the learning curve is route running. than again, & i don't want moss comparison to be taken too literally... but if jones has SOME attributes that appear at a cursory glance to be similar... IF jones makes the transition he immediately becomes one of the more impressive size/speed freaks in the league, given his height, speed, VJ, etc... does moss get props for being a brilliant route runner?

a lot of his TDs are scored on fly patterns where MIN just says... go long randy, & daunte will just chuck it up there, often into the teeth of double coverage... & he goes & gets it anyway because of his world class athleticism.

to recap, i am not saying he is moss... i am saying that athleticism in moss' case has made a lack of polished route running almost irrelevant... he is that much better of an athlete than everybody else.

some have concerns about his hands, but he looks like such a superb athlete that i think good hands are a given. i could be off base, but i think his basketball experience will help his hands... he looks like a natural. his bio said he was a mcdonalds all-american finalist, & he broke corliss williamson state record in scoring ave. per game his junior year.

bob mentioned a few other great athletes that made QB/WR conversion successfully... bert emanual & hines ward. i think terrence mathis was a college QB. anquan boldin was a star prep QB, & while he primarily played WR for florida state, did play some QB in his final year, in the junior season bowl game.

so boldin did have advantage of lots of reps for few seasons at WR position. but he is a good example of how a special athlete shouldn't have too much difficulty learning to catch the ball.

i agree that the route running may not come overnight... which is why i like him more in dynasty leagues.

* EDIT/ADD - not sure if i said anywhere i thought he was deserving of high pick... i'll get to that... but you might have been responding to other strands of the thread where this was surely discussed.

i am still hedging my bets, but the more i look into jones the more i like, so yes, it is looking increasingly like when i am done with my research, i would be comfortable taking him in the top half of the second round somewhere. but if jones goes in the 4th round, all bets are off. i won't like him as much. if he goes between pick 30-40, i'll like him more.

am i being a fair weather fan? that is partly the realist in me acknowledging that professionals break down more film and are in a better position to make an informed decision than i could without comparable resources (a scouting department, film vault, years of training, etc). that isn't to say scouts aren't wrong at times... ryan leaf proves some of criteria used to weigh & judge talent are imperfect, it is as much or more art than science, & imaginative facilty to project where a player will be in a few years come into play at least as much as rigorous quant-type analytical skills.

^^^ Good post, I will forward it to AJ Smith, hopefully my Bolts take a serious look at him.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

since randle-el's name pops up in QB/WR conversion comps...

jones is about...

8" taller (6'6" vs. 5'10")

50 lbs heavier (approx 240 vs. 190)

ran about a tenth of a second faster (4.37 vs. 4.45)

VJ 7.5" higher (39.5" vs. 32")

BJ over 2' longer (10'9" vs. 8'6")

nearly identical 3 cone drill & 20 yard shuttle times... these last tests are important measures of change of direction, which can translate to functional & playing speed needed for football purposes...

it is impressive that jones can move so much more bulk & mass with greater speed & approximately the same quickness.

Just curious - how did David Boston compare to Marvin Harrison?Not to say either is the same player, but the tests serve a limited purpose.

most people would agree that boston's career didn't founder on a lack of physical ability... he looked pretty good when he had that 1,500+ yard season.since than though, he has had a narrow miss on a cocaine possession rap, balooned up to near TE/DE proportions, had multiple leg injuries, got in arguments with his coaches & teammates & has basically relegated himself to the football equivalent of siberia.

as far as we know, jones doesn't have anything remotely like these character concerns & off field issues.

plus randle-el isn't exactly marvin harrison... :^) all i was saying, for those who like randle-el, you may really like jones as he seems to have superior athleticism... seemingly the always difficult to project QB/WR conversion might be viewed as having at least as favorable an outcome.

another difference is boston wasn't anywhere near as big when he came up... probably something in the neighborhood of 215 (he may have been as high as 240 with chargers & dolphins) & wasn't 6'6"... if he had been 6'6" 240, & could get into & out of his cuts as smoothly & gracefully as a marvin harrison (or as the quickest among the elite WRs in a given draft class), i would have said his athleticism was a marvel... whether his name was david boston or matt jones.

Hey Bob,All valid points. But, why is Randel El suddenly the benchmark? Randel El is a nice player who fits in as a reliable slot receiver on a team that doesn't throw the ball a ton. While Steelers fans no doubt view Randel El in great terms, this isn't a guy that, to this point, has played at a level that justifies the use of a 2nd round pick. So simply to show that Jones is a more intriguing athlete than Randel El HARDLY, IMHO, justifies whether he should be worth a 1st/2nd round selection.

hey jason,thanx for the feedback... i used randle-el as a comp player because he is a recent example who made the QB/WR conversion relatively successfully. like you, i don't think randle-el is the second coming of jerry rice... a dangerous slot WR in the az-hakim vein, & a dangerous punt returner up to now.

would you be more enthused about randle-el, if somehow we could genetically engineer him to become 8" taller, 50 lbs heavier, VJ over half a foot higher, broad jump a full two feet longer, run a tenth of a second faster... BUT KEEP EVERYTHING ELSE INTACT? this is just a thought experiment, but it seems like their cone drill & shuttle times were strikingly similar... these latter tests, which measure the critically important ability of change of direction, arguably hold greater "predictive" value for HOW a WR/DBs athleticism will translate to the football field than just the raw 40 time (which don't get me wrong, is extremely impressive in jones case).

wouldn't randle-el be a different animal than?

wouldn't you start to think of him differently & appreciate him in a new way?

he would be a hulking presence (not dimunitive slot WR) taller than heath miller... faster than braylon edwards... who can jump higher than mike williams.

i am not necessarily saying he is white moss & will get DD TDs in '05... the learning curve could take a couple seasons. that fact alone isn't necessarily incompatible with a top of the second round selection... it used to be that it was expected that it would take most WRs a few seasons to get the hang of the speed & complexity of the game.

i was linking the two QB/WR conversions to suggest that jones, based on his measurables & athleticism, could be better, not the same. so even if randle-el wasn't worth a second in your opinion (not sure i would want to dispute that), it is possible jones could be.

i don't think i mentioned this b4, but i am a lot more excited about jones as a dynasty prospect than a redraft prospect... it is important to make that distinction.

the thing that worries me about the learning curve is route running. than again, & i don't want moss comparison to be taken too literally... but if jones has SOME attributes that appear at a cursory glance to be similar... IF jones makes the transition he immediately becomes one of the more impressive size/speed freaks in the league, given his height, speed, VJ, etc... does moss get props for being a brilliant route runner?

a lot of his TDs are scored on fly patterns where MIN just says... go long randy, & daunte will just chuck it up there, often into the teeth of double coverage... & he goes & gets it anyway because of his world class athleticism.

to recap, i am not saying he is moss... i am saying that athleticism in moss' case has made a lack of polished route running almost irrelevant... he is that much better of an athlete than everybody else.

some have concerns about his hands, but he looks like such a superb athlete that i think good hands are a given. i could be off base, but i think his basketball experience will help his hands... he looks like a natural. his bio said he was a mcdonalds all-american finalist, & he broke corliss williamson state record in scoring ave. per game his junior year.

bob mentioned a few other great athletes that made QB/WR conversion successfully... bert emanual & hines ward. i think terrence mathis was a college QB. anquan boldin was a star prep QB, & while he primarily played WR for florida state, did play some QB in his final year, in the junior season bowl game.

so boldin did have advantage of lots of reps for few seasons at WR position. but he is a good example of how a special athlete shouldn't have too much difficulty learning to catch the ball.

i agree that the route running may not come overnight... which is why i like him more in dynasty leagues.

* EDIT/ADD - not sure if i said anywhere i thought he was deserving of high pick... i'll get to that... but you might have been responding to other strands of the thread where this was surely discussed.

i am still hedging my bets, but the more i look into jones the more i like, so yes, it is looking increasingly like when i am done with my research, i would be comfortable taking him in the top half of the second round somewhere. but if jones goes in the 4th round, all bets are off. i won't like him as much. if he goes between pick 30-40, i'll like him more.

am i being a fair weather fan? that is partly the realist in me acknowledging that professionals break down more film and are in a better position to make an informed decision than i could without comparable resources (a scouting department, film vault, years of training, etc). that isn't to say scouts aren't wrong at times... ryan leaf proves some of criteria used to weigh & judge talent are imperfect, it is as much or more art than science, & imaginative facilty to project where a player will be in a few years come into play at least as much as rigorous quant-type analytical skills.

^^^ Good post, I will forward it to AJ Smith, hopefully my Bolts take a serious look at him.

great read!!! I like someone that actually thinks about what they write it makes for a wonderful read.

 

[Bob Magaw]

thanx CCF,thats what i like about shark pool... it is like a collaborative intelligence... some info gets propogated & disseminated thru the network, is collectively digested, an idea from one person can trigger separate ideas in ten other people, which is fed back into the loop... repeat & rinse. :^)a vast, parallel processing football engine, that turns raw data into knowledge & understanding.even when i don't necessarily agree with an individual take, it is refreshing to be able to go some place where you can HEAR PEOPLE THINKING ALOUD... because in shark pool, thinking is allowed.ps - don't be spendin that 1.1 dynasty pick on matt jones now ;^D... be careful with the kool aid... it is spiked with WHITE LIGHTNING... it can makes ya go blind!but i do like jones... it should be interesting to see where he goes in dynasty drafts if pats take him in late first or team like lions gets him around 40.

 

[Bloom]

it is impressive that jones can move so much more bulk & mass with greater speed & approximately the same quickness.

and look like he's not even trying while he's doing it

 

[Joe Bryant]

I agree on the Matt Jones issue.  I don't understand how a WR can vault himself by posting crazy numbers at the combine ( Roddy White ) but someone with Jones size posting numbers like he did at the combine doesn't get into the late 1st round- early 2nd.

Because playing the position involves more than being athletic. If speed and athleticism were the main keys, Renaldo Nehemiah would've been better than Jerry Rice. Jones had NEVER played the position before the combine, he's essentially a walk on at the NFL level who will, at best, need a few years to develop. To pay 1st/2nd round money for a guy like that is bad business.I've seen Jones, watched his combine workout, and am aware of the buzz. I think a team that has depth and can stow him away might have the next Drew Bennett/Eric Johnson on their hands, but they just as easily might have a guy without an NFL position.

Valid point Jason... he could end up another Mike Mamula combine freak gametime bust.

Leeland McElroy was that guy for me. Squatted with the linemen, better vertical leap than the CB's, and ran 40's better than the WRs. And NFL bust.J

 

[Joe Bryant]

Great thread guys. Outstanding posts. My .02 is that I love the QBs turned WRs. They've got a leap frog on the learning curve just because they've spent their career having to know what the WRs are doing. Of course, it's not the same. But it's a lot closer than the guy who's been running the 110 High Hurdles. What I've seen of Jones freaks me out because he doesn't look like he's moving anywhere near as fast as he clocks. Very weird.Should be interesting. And yes, freaky speed and good hands goes a long way towards dressing up average route running. We'll see. But yes, dynasty focus for sure.J

 

[Bojang0301]

Great thread guys.

Outstanding posts.

My .02 is that I love the QBs turned WRs. They've got a leap frog on the learning curve just because they've spent their career having to know what the WRs are doing. Of course, it's not the same. But it's a lot closer than the guy who's been running the 110 High Hurdles.

What I've seen of Jones freaks me out because he doesn't look like he's moving anywhere near as fast as he clocks. Very weird.

Should be interesting. And yes, freaky speed and good hands goes a long way towards dressing up average route running. We'll see.

But yes, dynasty focus for sure.

J

That's what college defenses said too. He has deceptive speed... turns out pretty damn deceptive for a 4.37. I am trying to decipher if I am blinded by the fact that he is such a freaky athlete for a 6-6 white guy and that's why I like him or if he is really that skilled. I hope that doesn't come off the wrong way.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Great thread guys.

Outstanding posts. 

My .02 is that I love the QBs turned WRs. They've got a leap frog on the learning curve just because they've spent their career having to know what the WRs are doing. Of course, it's not the same. But it's a lot closer than the guy who's been running the 110 High Hurdles.

What I've seen of Jones freaks me out because he doesn't look like he's moving anywhere near as fast as he clocks. Very weird.

Should be interesting. And yes, freaky speed and good hands goes a long way towards dressing up average route running. We'll see.

But yes, dynasty focus for sure.

J

hey joe,deceptive speed is interesting... the signature player for me exhibiting that characteristic was robert smith. he was very fast (100 m sprinter at ohio state), but he just sort of had this easy, loping, fluid, economical gait, & it just didn't look like he was going that fast... UNTIL HE RAN BY & AWAY FROM HAPLESS DBs. :^)

funny after all those years, & presumably having "the book" on him, seeing the film & advance scouting reports on him... DBs still took wrong angles on him until the end, when he retired prematurely still at the apex of his game. they still seemed to be surprised by the explosive playing speed in the guise of a RB who looked like he wasn't running hard, in live, gameday conditions... as if there was no way to prepare for it. :^)

a possibly related skill or aptitude, but could be discrete & separate from this conversation... the ability to change speeds... kind of like a great pitcher setting up batters, & great WR setting up DBs. smith was smart, too, & an intuitive runner... if he had one on one... he would run right at the player, breaking to the sideline at the last second to prevent the defender from using the sideline as an extra defender & getting the upper hand on the angle.

smith was tall, too... like jones is tall for a WR (though i think harold carmichael was more than 6'6", for old skoolers out there... might have been listed at 6'8", which would be like 6'10" three decades later in relative, height-adjusted sense... carmichel was a height prodigy & freak several decades ahead of his time :^)... those long strides can eat up a lot of ground...

think "el caballo" juantarena :^)...

 

[cstu]

Great thread guys.

Outstanding posts. 

My .02 is that I love the QBs turned WRs. They've got a leap frog on the learning curve just because they've spent their career having to know what the WRs are doing. Of course, it's not the same. But it's a lot closer than the guy who's been running the 110 High Hurdles.

What I've seen of Jones freaks me out because he doesn't look like he's moving anywhere near as fast as he clocks. Very weird.

Should be interesting. And yes, freaky speed and good hands goes a long way towards dressing up average route running. We'll see.

But yes, dynasty focus for sure.

J

That's what college defenses said too. He has deceptive speed... turns out pretty damn deceptive for a 4.37. I am trying to decipher if I am blinded by the fact that he is such a freaky athlete for a 6-6 white guy and that's why I like him or if he is really that skilled. I hope that doesn't come off the wrong way.

I'm starting to wonder if my doubts about him are more racial than I like to admit (yes, I'm white also). It's really hard to imagine that there could actually be a white guy with that kind of athleticism playing WR.

 

[diesel7982]

Great thread guys.

Outstanding posts. 

My .02 is that I love the QBs turned WRs. They've got a leap frog on the learning curve just because they've spent their career having to know what the WRs are doing. Of course, it's not the same. But it's a lot closer than the guy who's been running the 110 High Hurdles.

What I've seen of Jones freaks me out because he doesn't look like he's moving anywhere near as fast as he clocks. Very weird.

Should be interesting. And yes, freaky speed and good hands goes a long way towards dressing up average route running. We'll see.

But yes, dynasty focus for sure.

J

That's what college defenses said too. He has deceptive speed... turns out pretty damn deceptive for a 4.37. I am trying to decipher if I am blinded by the fact that he is such a freaky athlete for a 6-6 white guy and that's why I like him or if he is really that skilled. I hope that doesn't come off the wrong way.

I'm starting to wonder if my doubts about him are more racial than I like to admit (yes, I'm white also). It's really hard to imagine that there could actually be a white guy with that kind of athleticism playing WR.

Drew Bennett is also regarded as one of the best athletes in the NFL. But you wouldn't know it from the general fan's reputation of him.

 

[Wadsworth]

Boldin was a pretty good QB early on at FSU and while that's not the NFL he stepped right in at WR did well. At that size, with that speed and that vert, how good do his routes have to be?Can't wait for the draft.

 

[Jason Wood]

Bo:  Ouch, that was bad.  Hell, that's the third best male vocal song from Pippin.  I have no idea why he chose that tune.  As I think Scooby mentioned previously, if Bo came out and nailed Too Much Heaven On Their Minds, I would have power voted during the entire voting period (and I've never voted before).  The guy's a rocker.  Why didn't he do something from JC Superstar, or Tommy (Pinball Wizard would have killed!) or even Rent (show up Constantine yet again).  Seriously, Scoob, you need to fly to Hollywood and start helping these people.  Talk about a missed opportunity.

I'm guessing that JC Superstar probably would have freaked FOX out, but Bo still had plenty of other choices. One I immediately thought of, also from Chess (sue me, I like the music in that show) is Pity the Child. It's Murray Head, who was also the orignial Judas in Superstar, so I think it would have been in Bo's wheelhouse. It's mawkish, but in a Freddie Mercury kind of way.I thought the song choices were uniformly dreadful tonight. And seriously, if Constantine tries to eye #### me any harder, I'm calling the Eagle, CO police department.

BTW, of course it was Anwar's best performance in weeks. He didn't have to sing a pop song. He's just a big, gay easy listening singer.

Great thread guys.

Outstanding posts. 

My .02 is that I love the QBs turned WRs. They've got a leap frog on the learning curve just because they've spent their career having to know what the WRs are doing. Of course, it's not the same. But it's a lot closer than the guy who's been running the 110 High Hurdles.

What I've seen of Jones freaks me out because he doesn't look like he's moving anywhere near as fast as he clocks. Very weird.

Should be interesting. And yes, freaky speed and good hands goes a long way towards dressing up average route running. We'll see.

But yes, dynasty focus for sure.

J

That's what college defenses said too. He has deceptive speed... turns out pretty damn deceptive for a 4.37. I am trying to decipher if I am blinded by the fact that he is such a freaky athlete for a 6-6 white guy and that's why I like him or if he is really that skilled. I hope that doesn't come off the wrong way.

I'm starting to wonder if my doubts about him are more racial than I like to admit (yes, I'm white also). It's really hard to imagine that there could actually be a white guy with that kind of athleticism playing WR.

Drew Bennett is also regarded as one of the best athletes in the NFL. But you wouldn't know it from the general fan's reputation of him.

As are Brian Urlacher and Adam Archuleta. And I recall Joey Harrington and Byron Leftwich on Dan Patrick last offseason talking about how Arizona QB Josh McCown was the most athletic QB in the league (they were all at the QB Skills competition in Hawaii).

 

[-OZ-]

Drew Bennett is also regarded as one of the best athletes in the NFL. But you wouldn't know it from the general fan's reputation of him.

As are Brian Urlacher and Adam Archuleta. And I recall Joey Harrington and Byron Leftwich on Dan Patrick last offseason talking about how Arizona QB Josh McCown was the most athletic QB in the league (they were all at the QB Skills competition in Hawaii).

Which goes to show athleticism at QB is highly overrated.Give me a QB with an arm and a brain, you can have your athlete.

 

[Boone22]

Bo:  Ouch, that was bad.  Hell, that's the third best male vocal song from Pippin.  I have no idea why he chose that tune.  As I think Scooby mentioned previously, if Bo came out and nailed Too Much Heaven On Their Minds, I would have power voted during the entire voting period (and I've never voted before).  The guy's a rocker.  Why didn't he do something from JC Superstar, or Tommy (Pinball Wizard would have killed!) or even Rent (show up Constantine yet again).  Seriously, Scoob, you need to fly to Hollywood and start helping these people.  Talk about a missed opportunity.

I'm guessing that JC Superstar probably would have freaked FOX out, but Bo still had plenty of other choices. One I immediately thought of, also from Chess (sue me, I like the music in that show) is Pity the Child. It's Murray Head, who was also the orignial Judas in Superstar, so I think it would have been in Bo's wheelhouse. It's mawkish, but in a Freddie Mercury kind of way.I thought the song choices were uniformly dreadful tonight. And seriously, if Constantine tries to eye #### me any harder, I'm calling the Eagle, CO police department.

BTW, of course it was Anwar's best performance in weeks. He didn't have to sing a pop song. He's just a big, gay easy listening singer.

Great thread guys.

Outstanding posts. 

My .02 is that I love the QBs turned WRs. They've got a leap frog on the learning curve just because they've spent their career having to know what the WRs are doing. Of course, it's not the same. But it's a lot closer than the guy who's been running the 110 High Hurdles.

What I've seen of Jones freaks me out because he doesn't look like he's moving anywhere near as fast as he clocks. Very weird.

Should be interesting. And yes, freaky speed and good hands goes a long way towards dressing up average route running. We'll see.

But yes, dynasty focus for sure.

J

That's what college defenses said too. He has deceptive speed... turns out pretty damn deceptive for a 4.37. I am trying to decipher if I am blinded by the fact that he is such a freaky athlete for a 6-6 white guy and that's why I like him or if he is really that skilled. I hope that doesn't come off the wrong way.

I'm starting to wonder if my doubts about him are more racial than I like to admit (yes, I'm white also). It's really hard to imagine that there could actually be a white guy with that kind of athleticism playing WR.

Drew Bennett is also regarded as one of the best athletes in the NFL. But you wouldn't know it from the general fan's reputation of him.

As are Brian Urlacher and Adam Archuleta. And I recall Joey Harrington and Byron Leftwich on Dan Patrick last offseason talking about how Arizona QB Josh McCown was the most athletic QB in the league (they were all at the QB Skills competition in Hawaii).

Woodrow's worst nightmare may come to pass...Eagles | Eyeing Arkansas' Jones? - from www.KFFL.com

Tue, 5 Apr 2005 20:34:53 -0700

Dave Spadaro, of PhiladelphiaEagles.com, reports ESPN's Mel Kiper Jr. says the Philadelphia Eagles may look to acquire Arkansas QB/WR Matt Jones with the No. 31 overall selection in the NFL Draft if Jones is available.

 

[Jason Wood]

Great thread guys. Outstanding posts. 

My .02 is that I love the QBs turned WRs. They've got a leap frog on the learning curve just because they've spent their career having to know what the WRs are doing. Of course, it's not the same. But it's a lot closer than the guy who's been running the 110 High Hurdles.

What I've seen of Jones freaks me out because he doesn't look like he's moving anywhere near as fast as he clocks. Very weird.

Should be interesting. And yes, freaky speed and good hands goes a long way towards dressing up average route running. We'll see.

But yes, dynasty focus for sure.

J

That's what college defenses said too. He has deceptive speed... turns out pretty damn deceptive for a 4.37. I am trying to decipher if I am blinded by the fact that he is such a freaky athlete for a 6-6 white guy and that's why I like him or if he is really that skilled. I hope that doesn't come off the wrong way.

I'm starting to wonder if my doubts about him are more racial than I like to admit (yes, I'm white also). It's really hard to imagine that there could actually be a white guy with that kind of athleticism playing WR.

Drew Bennett is also regarded as one of the best athletes in the NFL. But you wouldn't know it from the general fan's reputation of him.

As are Brian Urlacher and Adam Archuleta. And I recall Joey Harrington and Byron Leftwich on Dan Patrick last offseason talking about how Arizona QB Josh McCown was the most athletic QB in the league (they were all at the QB Skills competition in Hawaii).

Woodrow's worst nightmare may come to pass...

Eagles | Eyeing Arkansas' Jones? - from www.KFFL.com

Tue, 5 Apr 2005 20:34:53 -0700

Dave Spadaro, of PhiladelphiaEagles.com, reports ESPN's Mel Kiper Jr. says the Philadelphia Eagles may look to acquire Arkansas QB/WR Matt Jones with the No. 31 overall selection in the NFL Draft if Jones is available.

Spadaro isn't reporting anything new, Kiper mentioned Jones as a possible Eagles target in his latest chat (in fact, I reference it in one of these Jones threads at the time). But to be honest, having followed Kiper closely, he's got ZERO inside info when it comes to the Eagles, he's never gotten them right. I'm not saying there's not some logic in the Eagles eyeing Jones. After all, I would contend that IF he goes early, he's more likely to be selected in the late 1st by a contending team that doesn't need its 1st rounder to contribute immediately (i.e., Pats, Steelers, Eagles) versus the early 2nd where the teams with plenty of immediate needs are going to select.

 

[stbugs]

Bo:  Ouch, that was bad.  Hell, that's the third best male vocal song from Pippin.  I have no idea why he chose that tune.  As I think Scooby mentioned previously, if Bo came out and nailed Too Much Heaven On Their Minds, I would have power voted during the entire voting period (and I've never voted before).  The guy's a rocker.  Why didn't he do something from JC Superstar, or Tommy (Pinball Wizard would have killed!) or even Rent (show up Constantine yet again).  Seriously, Scoob, you need to fly to Hollywood and start helping these people.  Talk about a missed opportunity.

I'm guessing that JC Superstar probably would have freaked FOX out, but Bo still had plenty of other choices. One I immediately thought of, also from Chess (sue me, I like the music in that show) is Pity the Child. It's Murray Head, who was also the orignial Judas in Superstar, so I think it would have been in Bo's wheelhouse. It's mawkish, but in a Freddie Mercury kind of way.I thought the song choices were uniformly dreadful tonight. And seriously, if Constantine tries to eye #### me any harder, I'm calling the Eagle, CO police department.

BTW, of course it was Anwar's best performance in weeks. He didn't have to sing a pop song. He's just a big, gay easy listening singer.

Are you trying to compare Constantine to Matt Jones? Or are you more of a Bo fan?

Methinks you are hangin out in the FFA Idol thread too much.

 

[Jason Wood]

Bo:  Ouch, that was bad.  Hell, that's the third best male vocal song from Pippin.  I have no idea why he chose that tune.  As I think Scooby mentioned previously, if Bo came out and nailed Too Much Heaven On Their Minds, I would have power voted during the entire voting period (and I've never voted before).  The guy's a rocker.  Why didn't he do something from JC Superstar, or Tommy (Pinball Wizard would have killed!) or even Rent (show up Constantine yet again).  Seriously, Scoob, you need to fly to Hollywood and start helping these people.  Talk about a missed opportunity.

I'm guessing that JC Superstar probably would have freaked FOX out, but Bo still had plenty of other choices. One I immediately thought of, also from Chess (sue me, I like the music in that show) is Pity the Child. It's Murray Head, who was also the orignial Judas in Superstar, so I think it would have been in Bo's wheelhouse. It's mawkish, but in a Freddie Mercury kind of way.I thought the song choices were uniformly dreadful tonight. And seriously, if Constantine tries to eye #### me any harder, I'm calling the Eagle, CO police department.

BTW, of course it was Anwar's best performance in weeks. He didn't have to sing a pop song. He's just a big, gay easy listening singer.

Are you trying to compare Constantine to Matt Jones? Or are you more of a Bo fan?

Methinks you are hangin out in the FFA Idol thread too much.

It's a byproduct of the new quote button