since randle-el's name pops up in QB/WR conversion comps...
jones is about...
8" taller (6'6" vs. 5'10")
50 lbs heavier (approx 240 vs. 190)
ran about a tenth of a second faster (4.37 vs. 4.45)
VJ 7.5" higher (39.5" vs. 32")
BJ over 2' longer (10'9" vs. 8'6")
nearly identical 3 cone drill & 20 yard shuttle times... these last tests are important measures of change of direction, which can translate to functional & playing speed needed for football purposes...
it is impressive that jones can move so much more bulk & mass with greater speed & approximately the same quickness.
Just curious - how did David Boston compare to Marvin Harrison?Not to say either is the same player, but the tests serve a limited purpose.
most people would agree that boston's career didn't founder on a lack of physical ability... he looked pretty good when he had that 1,500+ yard season.since than though, he has had a narrow miss on a cocaine possession rap, balooned up to near TE/DE proportions, had multiple leg injuries, got in arguments with his coaches & teammates & has basically relegated himself to the football equivalent of siberia.
as far as we know, jones doesn't have anything remotely like these character concerns & off field issues.
plus randle-el isn't exactly marvin harrison... :^) all i was saying, for those who like randle-el, you may really like jones as he seems to have superior athleticism... seemingly the always difficult to project QB/WR conversion might be viewed as having at least as favorable an outcome.
another difference is boston wasn't anywhere near as big when he came up... probably something in the neighborhood of 215 (he may have been as high as 240 with chargers & dolphins) & wasn't 6'6"... if he had been 6'6" 240, & could get into & out of his cuts as smoothly & gracefully as a marvin harrison (or as the quickest among the elite WRs in a given draft class), i would have said his athleticism was a marvel... whether his name was david boston or matt jones.
Hey Bob,All valid points. But, why is Randel El suddenly the benchmark? Randel El is a
nice player who fits in as a reliable slot receiver on a team that doesn't throw the ball a ton. While Steelers fans no doubt view Randel El in great terms, this isn't a guy that, to this point, has played at a level that justifies the use of a 2nd round pick. So simply to show that Jones is a more intriguing athlete than Randel El HARDLY, IMHO, justifies whether he should be worth a 1st/2nd round selection.
hey jason,thanx for the feedback... i used randle-el as a comp player because he is a recent example who made the QB/WR conversion relatively successfully. like you, i don't think randle-el is the second coming of jerry rice... a dangerous slot WR in the az-hakim vein, & a dangerous punt returner up to now.
would you be more enthused about randle-el, if somehow we could genetically engineer him to become 8" taller, 50 lbs heavier, VJ over half a foot higher, broad jump a full two feet longer, run a tenth of a second faster... BUT KEEP EVERYTHING ELSE INTACT? this is just a thought experiment, but it seems like their cone drill & shuttle times were strikingly similar... these latter tests, which measure the critically important ability of change of direction, arguably hold greater "predictive" value for HOW a WR/DBs athleticism will translate to the football field than just the raw 40 time (which don't get me wrong, is extremely impressive in jones case).
wouldn't randle-el be a different animal than?
wouldn't you start to think of him differently & appreciate him in a new way?
he would be a hulking presence (not dimunitive slot WR) taller than heath miller... faster than braylon edwards... who can jump higher than mike williams.
i am not necessarily saying he is white moss & will get DD TDs in '05... the learning curve could take a couple seasons. that fact alone isn't necessarily incompatible with a top of the second round selection... it used to be that it was expected that it would take most WRs a few seasons to get the hang of the speed & complexity of the game.
i was linking the two QB/WR conversions to suggest that jones, based on his measurables & athleticism, could be better, not the same. so even if randle-el wasn't worth a second in your opinion (not sure i would want to dispute that), it is possible jones could be.
i don't think i mentioned this b4, but i am a lot more excited about jones as a dynasty prospect than a redraft prospect... it is important to make that distinction.
the thing that worries me about the learning curve is route running. than again, & i don't want moss comparison to be taken too literally... but if jones has SOME attributes that appear at a cursory glance to be similar... IF jones makes the transition he immediately becomes one of the more impressive size/speed freaks in the league, given his height, speed, VJ, etc... does moss get props for being a brilliant route runner?
a lot of his TDs are scored on fly patterns where MIN just says... go long randy, & daunte will just chuck it up there, often into the teeth of double coverage... & he goes & gets it anyway because of his world class athleticism.
to recap, i am not saying he is moss... i am saying that athleticism in moss' case has made a lack of polished route running almost irrelevant... he is that much better of an athlete than everybody else.
some have concerns about his hands, but he looks like such a superb athlete that i think good hands are a given. i could be off base, but i think his basketball experience will help his hands... he looks like a natural. his bio said he was a mcdonalds all-american finalist, & he broke corliss williamson state record in scoring ave. per game his junior year.
bob mentioned a few other great athletes that made QB/WR conversion successfully... bert emanual & hines ward. i think terrence mathis was a college QB. anquan boldin was a star prep QB, & while he primarily played WR for florida state, did play some QB in his final year, in the junior season bowl game.
so boldin did have advantage of lots of reps for few seasons at WR position. but he is a good example of how a special athlete shouldn't have too much difficulty learning to catch the ball.
i agree that the route running may not come overnight... which is why i like him more in dynasty leagues.
* EDIT/ADD - not sure if i said anywhere i thought he was deserving of high pick... i'll get to that... but you might have been responding to other strands of the thread where this was surely discussed.
i am still hedging my bets, but the more i look into jones the more i like, so yes, it is looking increasingly like when i am done with my research, i would be comfortable taking him in the top half of the second round somewhere. but if jones goes in the 4th round, all bets are off. i won't like him as much. if he goes between pick 30-40, i'll like him more.
am i being a fair weather fan? that is partly the realist in me acknowledging that professionals break down more film and are in a better position to make an informed decision than i could without comparable resources (a scouting department, film vault, years of training, etc). that isn't to say scouts aren't wrong at times... ryan leaf proves some of criteria used to weigh & judge talent are imperfect, it is as much or more art than science, & imaginative facilty to project where a player will be in a few years come into play at least as much as rigorous quant-type analytical skills.