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Moss (1 Viewer)

hellzbellz

Footballguy
Moss rates Collins over

Culpepper

CHARLEY WALTERS

Randy Moss says his new quarterback with the Oakland Raiders, Kerry Collins, is better overall than his former quarterback, Daunte Culpepper of the Vikings.

Moss, traded by the Vikings to the Raiders this spring, said so during an ESPN "SportsCenter'' interview.

"When it comes to athleticism, Daunte has Kerry beat by a large margin," the controversial wide receiver said. "But Kerry has pocket presence and knows how to read defenses. So Kerry has a slight step over Daunte."

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/11858506.htm

:lmao:

 

LHUCKS

Footballguy
It remains to be seen if Daunte can get by with mediocre WRs the way that Collins has. You could definitely make the case.

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
Wow, I'm shocked. Moss touts his current QB at the expense of his former QB...a few months after Culpepper went public with the notion that he thought the Vikings were better off without Moss.LOL...someone needs to show Randy some game film of Collins career. He looks great with that rocket arm in PRACTICE, but just wait until half of the passes that use to be right into Moss' arms are thrown way behind him or over his head.

 

jurb26

Footballguy
LOL...someone needs to show Randy some game film of Collins career. He looks great with that rocket arm in PRACTICE, but just wait until half of the passes that use to be right into Moss' arms are thrown way behind him or over his head.
You do realize just how easy it would be to turn these comments around in Collin's favor I hope. Using Moss as a catalyst.
 

Maggot Brain

Footballguy
The talent of guys like Moss and TO is unquestioned. But you have to wonder what type of warped realities drives these 'boneheads' to repeatedly say and do the same type of assinine things.

 
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jurb26

Footballguy
The talent of guys like Moss and TO is unquestioned. But you have to wonder what type of warped realities drives these 'boneheads' to repeatedly say and do the same type of assinine things again and again.
Honestly, if Moss didn't say this and protect his CURRENT QB. Then all the Moss haters come out and say "see, what kind of teamate is Moss, can't even support his new QB?" He does support his new QB and did so in manor that did not throw Cpep under the bus IMO and now he has a warped sense of reality..... :rolleyes: Some guys just can't win I guess. Talk about a catch-22. :shrug:

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
LOL...someone needs to show Randy some game film of Collins career. He looks great with that rocket arm in PRACTICE, but just wait until half of the passes that use to be right into Moss' arms are thrown way behind him or over his head.
You do realize just how easy it would be to turn these comments around in Collin's favor I hope. Using Moss as a catalyst.
Hey Jurb, let's not go down this road AGAIN. We just agree to disagree on the caliber of QB Collins is. Keep in mind I currently rank him 6th so I'm not suggesting Moss isn't going to help; he's going to help him tremendously. But Moss is about to find out just how different having Collins is at QB than Culpepper. Not only was Culpepper vastly more accurate, his mobility and the Vikings offensive line made him much more consistently effective than Collins who is a stone and can't handle pressure AT ALL.
 

-OZ-

Footballguy
Collins is no better than an average QB with a good arm.Culpepper is a better than average QB with a better arm and great athleticism. As far as reading the defense? I don't know, maybe Moss is on to something here, time will tell.BUT, what Randy won't admit but will learn in time is that Minnesota is a better team than Oakland, even in 2005.

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
It's tough for me to buy into the idea that Collins is better at reading defenses when he's thrown more INTs than TDs in his 10 year career, has never thrown for more than 22 TDs in a season, and has completed 60% or more of his passes just once (but threw for less than 50% twice).

 
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jurb26

Footballguy
LOL...someone needs to show Randy some game film of Collins career. He looks great with that rocket arm in PRACTICE, but just wait until half of the passes that use to be right into Moss' arms are thrown way behind him or over his head.
You do realize just how easy it would be to turn these comments around in Collin's favor I hope. Using Moss as a catalyst.
Hey Jurb, let's not go down this road AGAIN. We just agree to disagree on the caliber of QB Collins is. Keep in mind I currently rank him 6th so I'm not suggesting Moss isn't going to help; he's going to help him tremendously. But Moss is about to find out just how different having Collins is at QB than Culpepper. Not only was Culpepper vastly more accurate, his mobility and the Vikings offensive line made him much more consistently effective than Collins who is a stone and can't handle pressure AT ALL.
I cerainly don't want to go through all that again Wood. I know your feelings on it... you know mine. We can agree to disagree. I just want to make sure that you realize that having a WR like Moss certianly COULD and CAN have a great impact on a QBs accuracy.
 

-OZ-

Footballguy
The talent of guys like Moss and TO is unquestioned. But you have to wonder what type of warped realities drives these 'boneheads' to repeatedly say and do the same  type of assinine things again and again.
Honestly, if Moss didn't say this and protect his CURRENT QB. Then all the Moss haters come out and say "see, what kind of teamate is Moss, can't even support his new QB?" He does support his new QB and did so in manor that did not throw Cpep under the bus IMO and now he has a warped sense of reality..... :rolleyes: Some guys just can't win I guess. Talk about a catch-22. :shrug:
:yes: Would any WR admit today that his current QB is worse than a previous QB?

Ok, TO might. Anyone else?

Would Moose Muhammed?

Derrick Mason?

Both are taking a fairly obvious step back with their new QB, but I doubt they'd say it.

 

fridayfrenzy

Footballguy
It remains to be seen if Daunte can get by with mediocre WRs the way that Collins has. You could definitely make the case.
Didn't Daunte play around half the season without Moss and still put up fine numbers, I mean he was the #1 QB in our league last year.Burleson, Williamson, Robinson, Campbell and Taylor is no slouch of a WR corps at all. Wiggins is also back from injury. They may have lost Moss, but that is still a fine looking receiving corps.

Moss leaving doesn't scare me so much for Culpepper, its the fact that their defense may be getting on paper and Culpepper won't be gunning as much this season if they aren't in big shootouts.

 
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Boone22

Footballguy
It's tough for me to buy into the idea that Collins is better at reading defenses when he's thrown more INTs than TDs in his 10 year career, has never thrown for more than 22 TDs in a season, and has completed 60% or more of his passes just once (but threw for less than 50% twice).
:goodposting: I'm one of those people who feels Collins will still suck regardless of who he has to throw to. When you throw balls 10 feet over receiver's head or to defensive backs, it's hard to put up decent numbers even when you are trying to target Randy Moss. I'd be amazed if Collins finishes in the top 10 this year.

 
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hellzbellz

Footballguy
i totally agree with that joey harrington has 3 good recievers and will still suckas with collins

 
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jurb26

Footballguy
It's tough for me to buy into the idea that Collins is better at reading defense when he's thrown more INTs than TDs in his 10 year career, has never thrown for more than 22 TDs in a season, and has completed 60% or more of his passes just once (but three for less than 50% twice).
:goodposting: I'm one of those people who feels Collins will stil suck regardless of who he has to throw to. When you throw balls 10 feet over receiver's head or to defensive backs, it's hard to put up decent numbers even when you are trying to target Randy Moss. I'd be amazed if Collins finishes in the top 10 this year.
He was 15 last year. W/o Moss and (-) 2 games. I think top 10 is a rather safe bet for him this year.
 

hellzbellz

Footballguy
at the bottom of the article

• Randy Moss, on his initial reaction to being traded by the Vikings to Oakland, on ESPN "SportsCenter'': "The thing that hurt me the most is that I had to find out about it from my agent at 11 p.m... . Nobody from the team contacted me. I was disappointed and hurt... . All that I've done for the team and the state of Minnesota... just to be traded like I was nothing. It hurt."
ha
 

Boone22

Footballguy
It's tough for me to buy into the idea that Collins is better at reading defense when he's thrown more INTs than TDs in his 10 year career, has never thrown for more than 22 TDs in a season, and has completed 60% or more of his passes just once (but three for less than 50% twice).
:goodposting: I'm one of those people who feels Collins will stil suck regardless of who he has to throw to. When you throw balls 10 feet over receiver's head or to defensive backs, it's hard to put up decent numbers even when you are trying to target Randy Moss. I'd be amazed if Collins finishes in the top 10 this year.
He was 15 last year. W/o Moss and (-) 2 games. I think top 10 is a rather safe bet for him this year.
I understand the hype people are generating about Collins and I can see the logic but having watched Collins play for the Giants I just can't see him putting up top 10 numbers. Collins gets flustered to easily. He gets hurried or sacked a few times and he starts to panic. Defenses have a very easy time taking him out of his game and disrupting his rhythm. When that happens you can throw what little accuracy he had out the window. Despite Moss talent, I think Collins will continue to throw more INTs then TDs and will probably fall in the 10-15 ranged for QBs provided his O-line can provide decent pass protection.
 

Maggot Brain

Footballguy
The talent of guys like Moss and TO is unquestioned. But you have to wonder what type of warped realities drives these 'boneheads' to repeatedly say and do the same  type of assinine things again and again.
Honestly, if Moss didn't say this and protect his CURRENT QB. Then all the Moss haters come out and say "see, what kind of teamate is Moss, can't even support his new QB?" He does support his new QB and did so in manor that did not throw Cpep under the bus IMO and now he has a warped sense of reality..... :rolleyes: Some guys just can't win I guess. Talk about a catch-22. :shrug:
But why even make a comparison like that when you've played with one QB for your whole a career(with great success I might add) and the other not even ONE game? If you want to give your new qB a 'shout out', then just do that without the unrealistic comparison.
 

jurb26

Footballguy
The talent of guys like Moss and TO is unquestioned. But you have to wonder what type of warped realities drives these 'boneheads' to repeatedly say and do the same  type of assinine things again and again.
Honestly, if Moss didn't say this and protect his CURRENT QB. Then all the Moss haters come out and say "see, what kind of teamate is Moss, can't even support his new QB?" He does support his new QB and did so in manor that did not throw Cpep under the bus IMO and now he has a warped sense of reality..... :rolleyes: Some guys just can't win I guess. Talk about a catch-22. :shrug:
But why even make a comparison like that when you've played with one QB for your whole a career(with great success I might add) and the other not even ONE game? If you want to give your new qB a 'shout out', then just do that without the unrealistic comparison.
How exactly do you know that it is "unrealistic" before the season has even started? Either way I realize that opinions vary. No point getting into this again as Wood said. I think its nice that a WR shows confidence in his QB. Thats what being part of a team is about.
 

Dulymus Mudhounds

Footballguy
I'd like to see Moss do to Collins what TO did to Mcnabb. McNabb went (since fully starting in 2000) 21, 25, 17, 16, 31 passing TD's. The big jump obviously attributed to finally having a superstar to throw to. Who's to say Moss won't do the same for Collins. Collins has all the weapons, save for a great line like Philly does, to put up those same numbers.It will be very interesting to see if Moss can make a stud out of Collins.Mud out

 

Garrett

Footballguy
LOL...someone needs to show Randy some game film of Collins career. He looks great with that rocket arm in PRACTICE, but just wait until half of the passes that use to be right into Moss' arms are thrown way behind him or over his head.
You don't need to show Moss any game film. He was there when Collins torched the Vikings for...28 Completions

381 Yards

and 5 TDs

in the NFC championship game.

 

fridayfrenzy

Footballguy
LOL...someone needs to show Randy some game film of Collins career. He looks great with that rocket arm in PRACTICE, but just wait until half of the passes that use to be right into Moss' arms are thrown way behind him or over his head.
You don't need to show Moss any game film. He was there when Collins torched the Vikings for...28 Completions

381 Yards

and 5 TDs

in the NFC championship game.
Ya, that was only 5 years ago for a completely different team.
 
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pmcdade

Footballguy
"When it comes to athleticism, Daunte has Kerry beat by a large margin," the controversial wide receiver said. "But Kerry has pocket presence and knows how to read defenses. So Kerry has a slight step over Daunte."Maybe its the attorney in me, but I don't read this as Moss actually saying that Collins is a better QB than C-Pep.Lets divide it into two statements.1)  C-Pep beats Kerry by a large margin.2)  Kerry has a slight step over Duante in pocket presence and reading of defenses.  Net:  Tie with the Large Margin in one facet of the game balancing the two smaller margins in presence and reading of defenses.  If its not a tie, then its almost definitely stated to be "Advantage C-Pep" as "beat by a large margin" outweighs "slight step" even if we count the slight step twice.Now, the statement doesn't have to be read the way I read it... but it should be.How much of this is taking a vague statement that is really a compliment to both the former and current QB's and having the Media try to find a controvery to spin into a big story on a slow news day?  I think there is a lot of that in this.Lets not forget that Randy didn't write these sentences... a reporter did.  Lets turn that second to last period into a comma.  With the flow of the sentence structer it makes much more sense for it to be a comma."But Kerry has pocket presence and knows how to read defenses, so Kerry has a slight step over Daunte."Why would the writer use a period between the words defenses and so?  It makes a big story out of a polite non-statement.  By putting a period in there the writer can stir up a story out of nothing.  Read the sentances... that should DEFINITELY be a comma not a period.  "When it comes to athleticism, Daunte has Kerry beat by a large margin," the controversial wide receiver said. "But Kerry has pocket presence and knows how to read defenses, so Kerry has a slight step over Daunte."Now you can hit me with the "But Moss is enough of a jerk to say this and he hates C-pep!" but the person who really has a motivation to spin the story is the reporter.

 
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Muahahaha

Footballguy
Moss rates Collins over

Culpepper

CHARLEY WALTERS

Randy Moss says his new quarterback with the Oakland Raiders, Kerry Collins, is better overall than his former quarterback, Daunte Culpepper of the Vikings.

Moss, traded by the Vikings to the Raiders this spring, said so during an ESPN "SportsCenter'' interview.

"When it comes to athleticism, Daunte has Kerry beat by a large margin," the controversial wide receiver said. "But Kerry has pocket presence and knows how to read defenses. So Kerry has a slight step over Daunte."

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/11858506.htm

:lmao:
Not that it matters, but I am almost 100% sure that he mis-quoted Moss. I watched the interview & I would swear that he said the equivalent of "So there Kerry has a slight step over Daunte." He was in no way saying that Kerry is overall better than Daunte.Anyone else see this interview?!?!?

 

Muahahaha

Footballguy
"When it comes to athleticism, Daunte has Kerry beat by a large margin," the controversial wide receiver said. "But Kerry has pocket presence and knows how to read defenses. So Kerry has a slight step over Daunte."

Maybe its the attorney in me, but I don't read this as Moss actually saying that Collins is a better QB than C-Pep.

Lets divide it into two statements.

1) C-Pep beats Kerry by a large margin.

2) Kerry has a slight step over Duante in pocket presence and reading of defenses.

Net: Tie with the Large Margin in one facet of the game balancing the two smaller margins in presence and reading of defenses. If its not a tie, then its almost definitely stated to be "Advantage C-Pep" as "beat by a large margin" outweighs "slight step" even if we count the slight step twice.

Now, the statement doesn't have to be read the way I read it... but it should be.

How much of this is taking a vague statement that is really a compliment to both the former and current QB's and having the Media try to find a controvery to spin into a big story on a slow news day? I think there is a lot of that in this.

Lets not forget that Randy didn't write these sentences... a reporter did. Lets turn that second to last period into a comma. With the flow of the sentence structer it makes much more sense for it to be a comma.

"But Kerry has pocket presence and knows how to read defenses, so Kerry has a slight step over Daunte."

Why would the writer use a period between the words defenses and so? It makes a big story out of a polite non-statement. By putting a period in there the writer can stir up a story out of nothing. Read the sentances... that should DEFINITELY be a comma not a period.

"When it comes to athleticism, Daunte has Kerry beat by a large margin," the controversial wide receiver said. "But Kerry has pocket presence and knows how to read defenses, so Kerry has a slight step over Daunte."

Now you can hit me with the "But Moss is enough of a jerk to say this and he hates C-pep!" but the person who really has a motivation to spin the story is the reporter.
I watched the interview & I didn't hear it the way he wrote it. See above.
 

FunkyPlutos

Footballguy
Well, to use "Randy's" words against him:"When it comes to athleticism, Moss has Keenan McCardell beat by a large margin, but Keenan know how to run precise routes and knows how to read defenses. So Keenan has a slight step over Randy."So, which one do you want on your team? :boxing:

 

jcjets

Footballguy
Blah blah blah...If Moss went to the Giants, then Eli would be better than CPep. If Moss wne to the Dolphins then A.J. would read defenses better than any QB he has played with...Its just talk people, get over it. Randy does the right thing by supporting his current QB and people bash him. Randy says nothing and people bash him. He can't win. I'mnot Randy supporter, but from a fantasy perspective you cannot ignore this guy.It looks to me the Raiders are becoming the old Vikings, all offense and no defense.

 

Chris Smith

The Head Goon!
When I first read this quote, I immediately wondered if Moss wasn't at least slightly misquoted. I didn't see the need for him to say anything like that at this time.In no way whatsoever does what he said have an impact on the Raiders this season. You expect your receivers to have confidence (at least publicly) in their quarterbacks and basically that is what Moss did was express his confidence in his guy.However Culpepper, already out to prove he is a great quarterback without his star receiver just received a nice Bulletin Board blurb to use for even more inspiration this season. People talk about Moss and how he'll be out to prove a point this season but what about Culpepper. Many folks believe he won't be nearly as effective without Moss in the starting lineup but he is a very competitive dude and you can tell already this season that he is focused and wants to prove he is the man!I wouldn't bet against Culpepper doing just that in 2005.Quotes like the above though make the offseason much more interesting so whether Moss actually did say it or the reporter got creative, it does make for interesting discussion.

 

TheFanatic

Footballguy
"When it comes to athleticism, Daunte has Kerry beat by a large margin," the controversial wide receiver said. "But Kerry has pocket presence and knows how to read defenses. So Kerry has a slight step over Daunte."

Maybe its the attorney in me, but I don't read this as Moss actually saying that Collins is a better QB than C-Pep.

Lets divide it into two statements.

1)  C-Pep beats Kerry by a large margin.

2)  Kerry has a slight step over Duante in pocket presence and reading of defenses. 

Net:  Tie with the Large Margin in one facet of the game balancing the two smaller margins in presence and reading of defenses.  If its not a tie, then its almost definitely stated to be "Advantage C-Pep" as "beat by a large margin" outweighs "slight step" even if we count the slight step twice.

Now, the statement doesn't have to be read the way I read it... but it should be.

How much of this is taking a vague statement that is really a compliment to both the former and current QB's and having the Media try to find a controvery to spin into a big story on a slow news day?  I think there is a lot of that in this.

Lets not forget that Randy didn't write these sentences... a reporter did.  Lets turn that second to last period into a comma.  With the flow of the sentence structer it makes much more sense for it to be a comma.

"But Kerry has pocket presence and knows how to read defenses, so Kerry has a slight step over Daunte."

Why would the writer use a period between the words defenses and so?  It makes a big story out of a polite non-statement.  By putting a period in there the writer can stir up a story out of nothing.  Read the sentances... that should DEFINITELY be a comma not a period. 

"When it comes to athleticism, Daunte has Kerry beat by a large margin," the controversial wide receiver said. "But Kerry has pocket presence and knows how to read defenses, so Kerry has a slight step over Daunte."

Now you can hit me with the "But Moss is enough of a jerk to say this and he hates C-pep!" but the person who really has a motivation to spin the story is the reporter.
I watched the interview & I didn't hear it the way he wrote it. See above.
I didn't see the interview but I see this as a non-story. Every player has his strengths and weaknesses. Moss mentioned a strength that Culp has over Collins and then he mentioned something he thinks Collins has over Culp. He didn't pull a TO and say, "I'm glad I'm finally with a QB that is worthy of my talent." No, he just said that they have different strengths as he sees it. Non story....
 

Maulers

Footballguy
Wow, I'm shocked. Moss touts his current QB at the expense of his former QB...a few months after Culpepper went public with the notion that he thought the Vikings were better off without Moss.

LOL...someone needs to show Randy some game film of Collins career. He looks great with that rocket arm in PRACTICE, but just wait until half of the passes that use to be right into Moss' arms are thrown way behind him or over his head.
If an old Randall Cunningham can get the ball to a rookie Randy Moss then I feel confident Moss can track down ALOT of Collins' errant throws (which are frequent to be sure).
 

John 14:6

Jesus is Lord!
at the bottom of the article

• Randy Moss, on his initial reaction to being traded by the Vikings to Oakland, on ESPN "SportsCenter'': "The thing that hurt me the most is that I had to find out about it from my agent at 11 p.m... . Nobody from the team contacted me. I was disappointed and hurt... . All that I've done for the team and the state of Minnesota... just to be traded like I was nothing. It hurt."
I have to agree with Moss here. Right off hand I can't think of a better athlete who was more underappreicated by his team's fans than Moss.
 

David Yudkin

Footballguy
I'd like to see Moss do to Collins what TO did to Mcnabb. McNabb went (since fully starting in 2000) 21, 25, 17, 16, 31 passing TD's. The big jump obviously attributed to finally having a superstar to throw to. Who's to say Moss won't do the same for Collins. Collins has all the weapons, save for a great line like Philly does, to put up those same numbers.

It will be very interesting to see if Moss can make a stud out of Collins.

Mud out
Let's say Moss does get Collins up to 31 TD this year--he still won't maych McNabb's 220/3 rushing the ball or even come close. That's 40 fantasy points over the season. Collins once had a season with 44 rushes but -3 rushing yards.As for Culpepper without Moss, Culpepper had almost 1,100 yards and 4 TD FROM RUNNING BACKS last season. I don't see how he would lose that production from the backfield with Moss in Oakland.

 

Maggot Brain

Footballguy
The talent of guys like Moss and TO is unquestioned. But you have to wonder what type of warped realities drives these 'boneheads' to repeatedly say and do the same  type of assinine things again and again.
Honestly, if Moss didn't say this and protect his CURRENT QB. Then all the Moss haters come out and say "see, what kind of teamate is Moss, can't even support his new QB?" He does support his new QB and did so in manor that did not throw Cpep under the bus IMO and now he has a warped sense of reality..... :rolleyes: Some guys just can't win I guess. Talk about a catch-22. :shrug:
But why even make a comparison like that when you've played with one QB for your whole a career(with great success I might add) and the other not even ONE game? If you want to give your new qB a 'shout out', then just do that without the unrealistic comparison.
How exactly do you know that it is "unrealistic" before the season has even started? Either way I realize that opinions vary. No point getting into this again as Wood said. I think its nice that a WR shows confidence in his QB. Thats what being part of a team is about.
"Unrealistic" might be the wrong description. But can you argue with the documented success he's had with Culpepper? What's he done with Collins thus far to warrant such a comparison? Like I said, they haven't even played a game with each other yet. There's nothing wrong with propping up his new QB, but comparing him to Daunte, before they've even played a game or had any type of success doesn't make any sense.
 

jurb26

Footballguy
"Unrealistic" might be the wrong description. But can you argue with the documented success he's had with Culpepper? What's he done with Collins thus far to warrant such a comparison? Like I said, they haven't even played a game with each other yet. There's nothing wrong with propping up his new QB, but comparing him to Daunte, before they've even played a game or had any type of success doesn't make any sense.
Well like I said, I don't want to get into another all out debate on this. The thing is though, Moss is the one who has had documemted success w/o Cpep. Cpep has not had documented success w/o Moss, he has always had Moss. No, I don't think the 5 game stretch last year proved much if anything and fact is Cpep did see a great reduction in his production in those 5 games. Every QB with the exception of S.Wynn has had documented success with Moss. Collins looks to be in a great situation with the addition of Moss. Cpep, not so much. Yes, we know that Cpep was a great QB with Moss. We so not know that he is w/o him though. We know Moss is great no matter who has been throwing him the ball.
 

Family Matters

Footballguy
Here's the reason Moss made his comments. He got his feelings hurt and is striking out:

-- Moss Was Hurt by Vikings --

Fri Jun 10, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

Courtesy of the Pioneer Press... WR Randy Moss, on his initial reaction to being traded by the Vikings to Oakland, on ESPN "SportsCenter'': "The thing that hurt me the most is that I had to find out about it from my agent at 11 p.m... . Nobody from the team contacted me. I was disappointed and hurt... . All that I've done for the team and the state of Minnesota... just to be traded like I was nothing. It hurt."

 

Heatman

Footballguy
"When it comes to athleticism, Daunte has Kerry beat by a large margin," the controversial wide receiver said. "But Kerry has pocket presence and knows how to read defenses. So Kerry has a slight step over Daunte."

Maybe its the attorney in me, but I don't read this as Moss actually saying that Collins is a better QB than C-Pep.

Lets divide it into two statements.

1)  C-Pep beats Kerry by a large margin.

2)  Kerry has a slight step over Duante in pocket presence and reading of defenses. 

Net:  Tie with the Large Margin in one facet of the game balancing the two smaller margins in presence and reading of defenses.  If its not a tie, then its almost definitely stated to be "Advantage C-Pep" as "beat by a large margin" outweighs "slight step" even if we count the slight step twice.

Now, the statement doesn't have to be read the way I read it... but it should be.

How much of this is taking a vague statement that is really a compliment to both the former and current QB's and having the Media try to find a controvery to spin into a big story on a slow news day?  I think there is a lot of that in this.

Lets not forget that Randy didn't write these sentences... a reporter did.  Lets turn that second to last period into a comma.  With the flow of the sentence structer it makes much more sense for it to be a comma.

"But Kerry has pocket presence and knows how to read defenses, so Kerry has a slight step over Daunte."

Why would the writer use a period between the words defenses and so?  It makes a big story out of a polite non-statement.  By putting a period in there the writer can stir up a story out of nothing.  Read the sentances... that should DEFINITELY be a comma not a period. 

"When it comes to athleticism, Daunte has Kerry beat by a large margin," the controversial wide receiver said. "But Kerry has pocket presence and knows how to read defenses, so Kerry has a slight step over Daunte."

Now you can hit me with the "But Moss is enough of a jerk to say this and he hates C-pep!" but the person who really has a motivation to spin the story is the reporter.
I watched the interview & I didn't hear it the way he wrote it. See above.
I didn't see the interview but I see this as a non-story. Every player has his strengths and weaknesses. Moss mentioned a strength that Culp has over Collins and then he mentioned something he thinks Collins has over Culp. He didn't pull a TO and say, "I'm glad I'm finally with a QB that is worthy of my talent." No, he just said that they have different strengths as he sees it. Non story....
I DID watch the interview and Moss WAS misquoted. As a matter of fact, when Moss was asked the question he looked very uncomfortable about answering the question and took time searching for the right answer. I saw it as him searching for some possible way NOT to say Collins was in no way as good as Culpepper. He was very careful in what he said about Culpepper being more of an all around athlete and he said Collins has been in the league longer and is better at reading defenses because of his time in the league.I'm not saying Moss is a saint by any means. But it's funny how this video does not show up anywhere since the "Moss says Collins is better than Culpepper!" stories surfaced. If he actually said what they are saying he said then we would be watching it every 30 minutes on ESPN news. Funny how the media likes to play games with people... not really, they LOVE IT!

 

John 14:6

Jesus is Lord!
Here's the reason Moss made his comments. He got his feelings hurt and is striking out:
-- Moss Was Hurt by Vikings --Fri Jun 10, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

Courtesy of the Pioneer Press... WR Randy Moss, on his initial reaction to being traded by the Vikings to Oakland, on ESPN "SportsCenter'': "The thing that hurt me the most is that I had to find out about it from my agent at 11 p.m... . Nobody from the team contacted me. I was disappointed and hurt... . All that I've done for the team and the state of Minnesota... just to be traded like I was nothing. It hurt."

This was posted at the end of the first page of this thread, but thanks anyway :thumbup:
 

Family Matters

Footballguy
Here's the reason Moss made his comments. He got his feelings hurt and is striking out:
-- Moss Was Hurt by Vikings --Fri Jun 10, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

Courtesy of the Pioneer Press... WR Randy Moss, on his initial reaction to being traded by the Vikings to Oakland, on ESPN "SportsCenter'': "The thing that hurt me the most is that I had to find out about it from my agent at 11 p.m... . Nobody from the team contacted me. I was disappointed and hurt... . All that I've done for the team and the state of Minnesota... just to be traded like I was nothing. It hurt."

This was posted at the end of the first page of this thread, but thanks anyway :thumbup:
Sorry about that. Working from dial up while on vacation and I just missed it. :wall:
 

jwvdcw

Footballguy
It remains to be seen if Daunte can get by with mediocre WRs the way that Collins has.  You could definitely make the case.
Didn't Daunte play around half the season without Moss and still put up fine numbers, I mean he was the #1 QB in our league last year.Burleson, Williamson, Robinson, Campbell and Taylor is no slouch of a WR corps at all. Wiggins is also back from injury. They may have lost Moss, but that is still a fine looking receiving corps.

Moss leaving doesn't scare me so much for Culpepper, its the fact that their defense may be getting on paper and Culpepper won't be gunning as much this season if they aren't in big shootouts.
We've been over this far too much, so I promise not to start again, but I just wanted to clear up this myth:First 5 weeks: Moss healthy

1. 242-5

2. 343-1

3. 360-2

4. 396-5

5. 425-5

average: 353.2 yards and 3.6 TDs

Next 5 weeks: Moss injured

6. 183-1

7. 231-2

8. 169-1

9. 363-4

10. 233-2

average: 235.8 yards and 2 TDs

 
As far as reading the defense? I don't know, maybe Moss is on to something here, time will tell.
This is how Kerry Collins reads defenses.:walks up to the line:

"Okay, let's see how many DBs they got. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6... mmm 6 pack. I really shouldn't have chugged that down with Janikowski 15 minutes before kickoff. Those were some cheap ### beers too, I'm going to have to talk to him about that. Oh wait ####, we're playing football. Okay. Damn the LBers are creeping down to the line of scrimmage. Those ####ers want to sack me I know it. #### the playclock is ticking down, what was that audible again? Hut hut. Here comes the pass rush!! Damn I'll just chuck it up with my super strong arm I developed at Penn St. playing beer pong. Amani you better catch this. Wait I don't even play for the Gia.."

:SACK:

 

jwvdcw

Footballguy
It's tough for me to buy into the idea that Collins is better at reading defenses when he's thrown more INTs than TDs in his 10 year career, has never thrown for more than 22 TDs in a season, and has completed 60% or more of his passes just once (but threw for less than 50% twice).
:goodposting: I'm one of those people who feels Collins will still suck regardless of who he has to throw to. When you throw balls 10 feet over receiver's head or to defensive backs, it's hard to put up decent numbers even when you are trying to target Randy Moss. I'd be amazed if Collins finishes in the top 10 this year.
you(and everyone else) are invited: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=152854I happen to think that Collins is just as good as Culpepper.

 

jwvdcw

Footballguy
The talent of guys like Moss and TO is unquestioned. But you have to wonder what type of warped realities drives these 'boneheads' to repeatedly say and do the same  type of assinine things again and again.
Honestly, if Moss didn't say this and protect his CURRENT QB. Then all the Moss haters come out and say "see, what kind of teamate is Moss, can't even support his new QB?" He does support his new QB and did so in manor that did not throw Cpep under the bus IMO and now he has a warped sense of reality..... :rolleyes: Some guys just can't win I guess. Talk about a catch-22. :shrug:
But why even make a comparison like that when you've played with one QB for your whole a career(with great success I might add) and the other not even ONE game? If you want to give your new qB a 'shout out', then just do that without the unrealistic comparison.
None of us here on this board have played in any NFL games with either of these QBs, yet we don't hesitate to give our opinion. I would think that a player who has played with one QB for years and has had a few practices with another is a lot more qualified than us to discuss this issue.
 

jwvdcw

Footballguy
"When it comes to athleticism, Daunte has Kerry beat by a large margin," the controversial wide receiver said. "But Kerry has pocket presence and knows how to read defenses. So Kerry has a slight step over Daunte."

Maybe its the attorney in me, but I don't read this as Moss actually saying that Collins is a better QB than C-Pep.

Lets divide it into two statements.

1)  C-Pep beats Kerry by a large margin.

2)  Kerry has a slight step over Duante in pocket presence and reading of defenses. 

Net:  Tie with the Large Margin in one facet of the game balancing the two smaller margins in presence and reading of defenses.  If its not a tie, then its almost definitely stated to be "Advantage C-Pep" as "beat by a large margin" outweighs "slight step" even if we count the slight step twice.

Now, the statement doesn't have to be read the way I read it... but it should be.

How much of this is taking a vague statement that is really a compliment to both the former and current QB's and having the Media try to find a controvery to spin into a big story on a slow news day?  I think there is a lot of that in this.

Lets not forget that Randy didn't write these sentences... a reporter did.  Lets turn that second to last period into a comma.  With the flow of the sentence structer it makes much more sense for it to be a comma.

"But Kerry has pocket presence and knows how to read defenses, so Kerry has a slight step over Daunte."

Why would the writer use a period between the words defenses and so?  It makes a big story out of a polite non-statement.  By putting a period in there the writer can stir up a story out of nothing.  Read the sentances... that should DEFINITELY be a comma not a period. 

"When it comes to athleticism, Daunte has Kerry beat by a large margin," the controversial wide receiver said. "But Kerry has pocket presence and knows how to read defenses, so Kerry has a slight step over Daunte."

Now you can hit me with the "But Moss is enough of a jerk to say this and he hates C-pep!" but the person who really has a motivation to spin the story is the reporter.
very very :goodposting: I'm honestly very impressed with this post. Icy pots, peezer.

 

jwvdcw

Footballguy
Blah blah blah...If Moss went to the Giants, then Eli would be better than CPep. If Moss wne to the Dolphins then A.J. would read defenses better than any QB he has played with...
I actually agree with both of those statements btw. Maybe I'm delusional, but I really think that Moss is that damn good and makes that much of a difference.
 

Hinezer

Footballguy
It remains to be seen if Daunte can get by with mediocre WRs the way that Collins has.  You could definitely make the case.
Didn't Daunte play around half the season without Moss and still put up fine numbers, I mean he was the #1 QB in our league last year.Burleson, Williamson, Robinson, Campbell and Taylor is no slouch of a WR corps at all. Wiggins is also back from injury. They may have lost Moss, but that is still a fine looking receiving corps.

Moss leaving doesn't scare me so much for Culpepper, its the fact that their defense may be getting on paper and Culpepper won't be gunning as much this season if they aren't in big shootouts.
We've been over this far too much, so I promise not to start again, but I just wanted to clear up this myth:First 5 weeks: Moss healthy

1. 242-5

2. 343-1

3. 360-2

4. 396-5

5. 425-5

average: 353.2 yards and 3.6 TDs

Next 5 weeks: Moss injured

6. 183-1

7. 231-2

8. 169-1

9. 363-4

10. 233-2

average: 235.8 yards and 2 TDs
You are forgetting something in your stats. Moss didn't play in the second half of game #5 and Culpepper had more yards in the 2nd half than he did in the 1st.And please don't pretend that the Vikings struggled when Moss was out. If they had a defense, they would have beaten the Colts and Packers on the road. Other than the Giants game (the Vikings always struggle against the Giants), Culpeppers' QB ratings were 97.5 or better. 103.2, 62.1 (Giants), 121.3, 117.9 and 97.5 were his QB ratings in the 5 games where Moss was injured.

The real myth here is that Culpepper is going to struggle without Moss. Culpepper will become a better QB with Moss gone. His stats may not be as good right away, but they will be.

 

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