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MSU in the Crosshairs - Lawsuit Alleges MSU Encouraged Woman not to Report Rape by Basketball Players; Ohio State University Doctor Abused 177 Athlete (1 Viewer)

whoknew

Footballguy
I don't think I've seen a thread on this, but Larry Nassar was recently sentenced to 60 years in prison for molesting an unknown number of gymnasts. He worked for both the US gymnastics team and at Michigan State University. And some at Michigan State knew this was going on and let him continue working. Surprised this isn't getting more publicity.

Nassar continued to work during MSU police investigation, victims say assaults continued

No one at Michigan State University followed up to make sure that Larry Nassar was complying with policies put in place by MSU following a Title IX sexual assault investigation in 2014. Instead, the school allowed Nassar to return to work, even as its own campus police investigation into Nassar continued for more than a year.

MSU Police and the FBI interviewed multiple MSU employees about Nassar's work, and whether anyone enforced the guidelines the school laid out for him in 2014. 

That’s the takeaway from a 19-page report from the MSU Police Department, conducted in partnership with the FBI in March. Originally obtained and reported by the Lansing State Journal, Michigan State University provided these documents to Michigan Radio late Tuesday night.

Seven current and former MSU employees were interviewed by law enforcement as part of this investigation, in order to find out “whether any procedures or guidelines … were communicated and followed,” writes Detective Sgt. Christopher Rozman. “As part of this investigation, I also probed whether any criminal statutes were violated by others during the Nassar sexual assault investigation.”

Nassar welcomed back in 2014, goes on to assault at least a dozen victims 

In late summer of 2016, Rachael Denhollander told the Indiana Star about being abused by Nassar as a young patient. Since then, more than 100 women and girls have come forward with similar stories. Several say they told MSU employees as far back as 1997 about Nassar’s practice of digitally penetrating them during treatment, without gloves or consent. Many of them are suing MSU, claiming the school failed to protect them.  

Nassar was sentenced this month to 60 years in federal prison for possessing thousands of images of child pornography. He’s also pleaded guilty in state court to abusing multiple patients under the guise of treatment, and faces sentencing in those cases next month.

But back in 2014, a graduate student at MSU did make an official Title IX complaint about Nassar. She’d seen him for hip pain, but instead Nassar had groped her breasts and massaged her ######l area, and was “extremely close to inserting a finger into her ######l opening,” according to the woman’s lawsuit.

She then promptly filed a complaint with MSU’s Title IX office, which triggered a criminal investigation by the school’s police department as well.

The school’s Title IX investigator, Kristine Moore, wrapped up her investigation and cleared Nassar of wrongdoing in July 2014.

William Strampel, then the dean of the College of Osteopathic Medicine, sent Nassar an email saying he was “happy this has resolved to some extend [sic] and I am happy to have you back in full practice."

That email, which was forwarded to Kristine Moore, also outlines three policies Nassar and Strampel have agreed to:

1)     "We will have another person (resident, nurse, etc) in the room whenever we are approaching a patient to perform procedures of anything close to a sensitive area.

2)      The procedure which caused the patient emotional distress because of her interpretation will be modified in the future to be sure that there is little to no skin to skin contact when in these regions. Should this be absolutely necessary, the procedure will be explained in detail with another person in the room…

3)      New people in our practice will be oriented to be sure they understand these requirements."

Meanwhile, MSU police were still in the midst of an open criminal sexual conduct investigation into Nassar – one they would eventually send to the Ingham County Prosecutor’s Office in July 2015, a full year after Nassar had been allowed to return to work.

“It should be noted that at least twelve assaults have been reported that occurred after 7/30/2014,” the date Nassar returned to work, the police report says. “Many of the sexual assaults occurred in examination rooms at MSU Sports Medicine and involved the lack of a chaperone during sensitive procedures and un-gloved skin-to-skin contact."

No enforcement of “common sense” policies 

MSU PD and the FBI interviewed Dr. William Strampel, then the Dean of MSU’s College of Osteopathic Medicine, on March 13 of this year. (Strampel stepped down from that job last week, and is currently on medical leave, according to the university.)

At the time, Strampel told police he didn’t have any contact with Nassar until the 2014 allegations, at which point he immediately removed Nassar from “clinical duties and ordered him to have no patient contact.”

Eventually, Strampel says he was “told that Dr. Nassar was ‘cleared’ and could return to work.” It was his own choice to email Nassar about “common sense medical guidelines,” he said.

“When asked about accountability and follow-up to ensure that Dr. Nassar was complying with the guidelines, Strampel said that having a chaperone in the room when performing a sensitive exam is ‘health care 101’ and all doctors learn this in medical school,” the report says.

“Strampel said because Dr. Nassar was ‘cleared of all charges’ and ‘exonerated,’ he did not see the need to follow-up.… Strampel also said he had to be conscious of sharing with other employees in Sports Medicine (specifically nurses and medical assistants) because they did not know about the investigation that had taken place, and since Dr. Nassar was cleared of all wrong doing, he didn’t feel it was appropriate to tell them about it.”

Other employees and administrators interviewed in this investigation say they were never formally instructed that Nassar was supposed to follow any specific guidelines or conditions. “How do we enforce those things when we didn’t even know about them,” a former clinic director asked police.

MSU employees say they saw “red flags,” but never suspected abuse  

Dr. Douglas Dietzel served as the head of orthopedic surgery and as a clinic director for MSU Sports Medicine, and told police he worked with Nassar as both his colleague and a supervisor.

He knew Nassar did some kind of intra######l procedure, but was vague on the details and “didn’t really understand it,” as it wasn’t his area of expertise. Patients never told him they were uncomfortable around Nassar, he said. “We have seen hundreds of the same patients. Not a single patient or parent has said anything at all.”

When asked about “red flags,” Dietzel told police Nassar did a lot of “consulting on his Facebook page and communicated with a lot of young girls for treatment recommendations.” That’s a common theme among MSU employees interviewed: that Nassar was on Facebook all the time, communicating with young patients, and that at one point Nassar’s Facebook profile had been “shut down.”

Dr. Michael Shingles, a surgeon with MSU Sports Medicine who’s also in charge of financial management, said Nassar had “gotten kicked off of Facebook” and remembers him “joking about it in the office saying something about getting kicked off because of all the kids he was friends with on Facebook.” Shingles said he assumed it was a joke.

Several employees also say they knew Nassar had stopped working with USA Gymnastics in 2015, but either assumed or were told by Nassar that it was his own choice. USA Gymnastics says they fired Nassar in 2015 because of athlete complaints.

On March 15, MSU PD Detective Andrea Munford interviewed Destiny Teachnor-Hauk, supervising athletic trainer who worked closely with Nassar for years.

“I advised Destiny that victims had reported that athletic trainers knew of Nassar’s treatments and joked with the athletes about the treatments being very personal,” Det. Munford writes in the report. “Destiny said she does recall that occurring, and that she assumed they were referring to the sacrotuberous ligament adjustment, because it involves hand placement near the area (but not on) the ######.

“Destiny said she recalls a specific time when gymnast [redacted] was talking to another athlete and said something to the effect of Nassar being in her private area. Destiny said that [redacted] was laughing and did not seem uncomfortable…. Destiny said the other times she had heard comments by athletes about Nassar they were ‘no more extreme’ than [name redacted.] Destiny said she has never had an athlete tell her that Nassar made them uncomfortable.”

Munford says Teachnor-Hauk was aware of one athlete going to Nassar’s home for treatment, but that this did not “raise any red flags” for her.

Two people on the report’s witness list are not mentioned or interviewed in the documents provided by Michigan State University: Kristine Moore, the Title IX investigator at the time of the school’s 2014 investigation into Nassar, and Brooke Lemmen, a former MSU sports medicine doctor who worked closely with Nassar and resigned after removing patient files at Nassar’s request.

Michigan State University did not provide any additional comment.  

Updated December 20 at 5:24 pm: Michigan State University issued the following statement. 

“On May 15, 2014, the MSU Police Department received its first report about Larry Nassar. Police immediately began a criminal investigation, and the MSU administration also immediately began a Title IX investigation.

It is important to remember, the criminal investigations conducted by MSU Police are done independently and without influence from the MSU administration. While a criminal investigation may prompt a review of an employee’s status, those processes are separate from one another.

In this case, as soon as the MSU administration was aware of the allegation, we took immediate action and began a Title IX investigation. That investigation, in July 2014 and based upon the information known at that time, concluded there was no finding of a policy violation by Nassar. Thus, Nassar returned to work.

On the criminal investigation, it is important to note that from the early stages, MSU Police detectives made multiple contacts with the Ingham County Prosecutor’s office. Each time, prosecutors indicated this was not a chargeable case. Despite that, a thorough investigation was completed and the report was submitted to that office for review and consideration of charges. This is consistent with the MSUPD practice of forwarding all investigations involving sexual assault to the prosecutor for review. The final decision by the prosecutor’s office was not to authorize criminal charges.”

--MSU spokesperson Jason Cody

 
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whoknew

Footballguy
Timeline for the Nassar matter, including:

1996

Nassar completes family practice residency at St. Lawrence Hospital in Lansing, which has since merged with Sparrow Hospital.

Nassar is appointed national medical coordinator for USA Gymnastics. He attends the Olympic Games in Atlanta with gymnastics teams.

Gedderts’ Twistars USA Gymnastics Club opens in Dimondale.

1997

Nassar completes a primary care sports medicine fellowship, then becomes a team physician and assistant professor at MSU.

Nassar begins working as team physician at Holt High School.

Nassar becomes a team physician and assistant professor at MSU.

A parent raises concerns to John Geddert about Nassar, but Geddert doesn’t notify police, according to a lawsuit filed in 2017.

1998

According to court records, Nassar begins sexually abusing the six–year–old daughter of a family friend. She later tells police Nassar penetrated her ###### with his fingers “every other week for five years”.

A student–athlete at MSU reports concerns regarding Nassar to trainers or coaches, but the university “failed to take any action” as a result, a lawsuit later claims.

2000

A second student–athlete at MSU reports concerns regarding Nassar to trainers or coaches, but the university “failed to take any action” as a result, according to a lawsuit filed in 2017.

Nassar attends Olympic Games in Sydney, Australia, with gymnastics teams.

Rachael Denhollander, a gymnast who later files a criminal complaint against Nassar, says she was sexually abused by Nassar during treatments for lower back pain in 2000. She was 15 at the time.

2014

MSU clears Nassar of any wrongdoing three months after a recent MSU graduate complains he sexually assaulted her during a medical examination.

AUG. 30, 2016

MSU relieves Nassar of clinical and patient duties.

 

AAABatteries

Footballguy
Sicko - I wonder how common it is for someone to abuse a 6 year old and then move to older girls.  

I did a quick Google search and it sounds like Maroney is accusing US Gymnastics of paying her off - is that right?

 

Christo

Footballguy
Sicko - I wonder how common it is for someone to abuse a 6 year old and then move to older girls.  

I did a quick Google search and it sounds like Maroney is accusing US Gymnastics of paying her off - is that right?
I've seen a little on this. She's accusing them of paying her to sign a confidentiality agreement. If she wanted to talk, she shouldn't have taken the money. She was represented by an attorney.

I guess the fight now is over who wanted the confidentiality agreement. Her attorney is saying USA Gymnastics wanted it. They are claiming he brought it up.

 
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RUSF18

Footballguy
Yeah they probably are the new PSU. But to answer your question, rightly or wrongly, it isn't getting the same traction because it doesn't involve a storied football program and the guy(s) who looked the other way in this case wasn't one of the most legendary coaches in history.

 

otb_lifer

Footballguy
I've seen a little on this. She's accusing them of paying her to sign a confidentiality agreement. If she wanted to talk, she shouldn't have taken the money. She was represented by an attorney.

I guess the fight now is over who wanted the confidentiality agreement. Her attorney is saying USA Gymnastics wanted it. They are claiming he brought it up.
the number being bandied about is 1.25 mil for her silence, as per WSJ 

 

Hawkeye21

Footballguy
It wouldn't surprise me.  MSU always seems to care more about winning in athletics and keeping that kind of reputation.  I always hated how their football program never suspended players like they should.  If a player was in jail he'd still be on the field playing that same week.  What a joke.

 

Da Guru

Fair & Balanced
Very disturbing story.  MSU has always run a loose ship with the athletic dept going way back.

 

whoknew

Footballguy
There is testifying going on today in a Michigan courtroom - 

Dan Murphy

@DanMurphyESPN

Bedford said she told an athletic trainer at MSU she wanted to file a general complaint about Nassar. She is now the fifth person to say they told an authority figure at MSU about Nassar.

 

BroncoFreak_2K3

sucker for Orange
1. Rachael Denhollander is a ### ####ed hero and should be regarded as such. If she didn't come forward when she did its likely hundreds more would have been abused.

2. This is sick... its so ####### sick. As much as we're conditioned to point the finger and make sure it isn't pointing at us... its important to listen to the kids. Encourage them say when something feels wrong - and don't blindly trust people when your kids are young and innocent. I get it, the dude had a "reputation" and it was an "honor" to get treatment from him. So ####### what, he's not a god, don't put him on a pedestal - if something seems wrong, check it out... encourage your kids to speak up... and if they do, listen. Maybe its not what you want to hear, but looking at this critically, all the signs were there, nobody wants to take responsibility so everybody has an excuse.

In a lot of ways, I hope the athletic department, osteopathic department - and anything else connected to this gets burned to the ground. It was all there, but too many spineless people unwilling to look in the dark places for the things they didn't want to see - when given the opportunity to do the right thing, they did nothing, and that alone is not a culture that can continue to exist.

 

Da Guru

Fair & Balanced
Not sure if people understand how bad this situation at MSU is.   Watching the sentencing of Nassar as a father was gut wrenching.  This is much worse than Penn State with over 300 kids involved.  Life's ruined, Families destroyed, multiple suicides.

The MSU president and AD will probably both be fired soon as well as many in administration.   After the football scandal last year and now there was talk about rapes by the basketball team that were swept under the rug as well.

 

Yankee23Fan

Fair Tax!
Yeah, I'm not a "immediately burn down everything" kind of guy... but reading this story and following it the past few days... Michigan State's athletics program, the entire program, needs to be given the death penalty by the NCAA, and the state legislature needs to remove just about everyone from leadership positions in that school that were in any way remotely close to someone that could have done something.

That might all be going too far and harming people and students that had no idea nor part in any of this, but I don't know what else can be done to show that the seriousness of this entire ordeal matters more than games played by people with physical ability that mean literally nothing in the grand scheme of things and in the face of a girl my daughter's age who had this happen - or the hundreds like her.

Hundreds.

 

otb_lifer

Footballguy
Yeah, I'm not a "immediately burn down everything" kind of guy... but reading this story and following it the past few days... Michigan State's athletics program, the entire program, needs to be given the death penalty by the NCAA, and the state legislature needs to remove just about everyone from leadership positions in that school that were in any way remotely close to someone that could have done something.

That might all be going too far and harming people and students that had no idea nor part in any of this, but I don't know what else can be done to show that the seriousness of this entire ordeal matters more than games played by people with physical ability that mean literally nothing in the grand scheme of things and in the face of a girl my daughter's age who had this happen - or the hundreds like her.

Hundreds.
and how in the #### did the USOC allow this mutha###### into a position of even more power?

roll their friggin' heads as well - had this happened in Russia or any of the other perennial women's gymnastic powerhouse countries the IOC would've dropped the mother of all hammers. 

 

LAUNCH

Footballguy
Nassar complains about hearing victims, 5 more women ask to speak at sentencing

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/nassar-complains-about-hearing-victims-5-more-women-ask-to-speak-at-sentencing

"You may find it harsh that you are here, listening. But nothing is as harsh as what your victims endured for thousands of hours at your hands," the judge said. "Spending 4 or 5 days listening to them is significantly minor considering the hours of pleasure you had at their expense and ruining their lives."

In another section of the letter, Nassar complains how he must sit in the witness box.

"You're sitting here in the witness box not for you entertainment, but so your victims can face you in the eye without turning back constantly," she said.

The judge dismissed the letter to continue with the sentencing hearing.

"Writing this mumbo jumbo doesnt help you sir," she said.

 

Yankee23Fan

Fair Tax!
and how in the #### did the USOC allow this mutha###### into a position of even more power?

roll their friggin' heads as well - had this happened in Russia or any of the other perennial women's gymnastic powerhouse countries the IOC would've dropped the mother of all hammers. 
Can't say I disagree with that either.

 

BroncoFreak_2K3

sucker for Orange
Nassar complains about hearing victims, 5 more women ask to speak at sentencing

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/nassar-complains-about-hearing-victims-5-more-women-ask-to-speak-at-sentencing

"You may find it harsh that you are here, listening. But nothing is as harsh as what your victims endured for thousands of hours at your hands," the judge said. "Spending 4 or 5 days listening to them is significantly minor considering the hours of pleasure you had at their expense and ruining their lives."

In another section of the letter, Nassar complains how he must sit in the witness box.

"You're sitting here in the witness box not for you entertainment, but so your victims can face you in the eye without turning back constantly," she said.

The judge dismissed the letter to continue with the sentencing hearing.

"Writing this mumbo jumbo doesnt help you sir," she said.
I like this judge a lot.

 

jabarony

Footballguy
Not quite Penn State, yet.  They haven't put up statues of the enablers.

 
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culdeus

Have good
Honestly this is worse than psu because there is such a clear paper trail up to the admin. 

Still doubt anything happens. 

 

Mookie

Footballguy
What a monster, and what a colossal blunder by those who hired, managed, and enabled his crimes.  No way it ends with his sentence - it is just the starting point.  

 

The Commish

Footballguy
Yeah, I'm not a "immediately burn down everything" kind of guy... but reading this story and following it the past few days... Michigan State's athletics program, the entire program, needs to be given the death penalty by the NCAA, and the state legislature needs to remove just about everyone from leadership positions in that school that were in any way remotely close to someone that could have done something.

That might all be going too far and harming people and students that had no idea nor part in any of this, but I don't know what else can be done to show that the seriousness of this entire ordeal matters more than games played by people with physical ability that mean literally nothing in the grand scheme of things and in the face of a girl my daughter's age who had this happen - or the hundreds like her.

Hundreds.
I still think the most "hurt" comes from civil cases.  I thought that with the PSU situation and I think that here.  The NCAA is a joke.  We all know it.  

 

TobiasFunke

Footballguy
Yeah, I'm not a "immediately burn down everything" kind of guy... but reading this story and following it the past few days... Michigan State's athletics program, the entire program, needs to be given the death penalty by the NCAA, and the state legislature needs to remove just about everyone from leadership positions in that school that were in any way remotely close to someone that could have done something.

That might all be going too far and harming people and students that had no idea nor part in any of this, but I don't know what else can be done to show that the seriousness of this entire ordeal matters more than games played by people with physical ability that mean literally nothing in the grand scheme of things and in the face of a girl my daughter's age who had this happen - or the hundreds like her.

Hundreds.
I think the breakdown here is totally different than the one at Penn State, which is closer to what you're describing in the bolded. This was a different sort of breakdown, and making it about athletics kind of misses the point IMO. This is a broader ignorance about or dismissal of sexual assault claims and how we treat victims and whether they are comfortable coming forward.  As a result I'd say this could just have easily happened at a university's medical facility dealing with regular students, as opposed to in the athletics program. Contrast that with Penn State, where I think part of the problem was that football was so important that nobody wanted to make waves or negatively impact a program that meant so much to so many people. That exerted a special kind of pressure.

 

Spartans Rule

Footballguy
I think the breakdown here is totally different than the one at Penn State, which is closer to what you're describing in the bolded. This was a different sort of breakdown, and making it about athletics kind of misses the point IMO. This is a broader ignorance about or dismissal of sexual assault claims and how we treat victims and whether they are comfortable coming forward.  As a result I'd say this could just have easily happened at a university's medical facility dealing with regular students, as opposed to in the athletics program. Contrast that with Penn State, where I think part of the problem was that football was so important that nobody wanted to make waves or negatively impact a program that meant so much to so many people. That exerted a special kind of pressure.
Agree with this.

I didn't even know MSU had a gymnastics team until this story broke, and I went there. If the athletic department ever needed to save a few bucks, it would've likely been one of the first programs axed. It's not some massive institution that had to be protected at all costs like Penn State football. Big difference in terms of motivations.

Not a big difference in terms of being horrible, of course. Obviously MSU has failed on a ton of different levels, and it's really disappointing that their response to everything has been to layer themselves in lawyers rather than cleaning house. The university deserves all the penalties and negative publicity that come from this.

 

belljr

Footballguy
I have a serious question.

No I am not defending this monster.

What is the reasoning behind the victims getting a chance to confront him in court?

Is it for the benefit of the victims?

I don't understand

 

General Malaise

Poop Lord
I have a serious question.

No I am not defending this monster.

What is the reasoning behind the victims getting a chance to confront him in court?

Is it for the benefit of the victims?

I don't understand
It was part of the plea deal that he accepted and now, he wants it to stop.  The victims are getting a chance to say directly to him what's been festering inside of them for years as the roles are now reversed.  He no longer has power over them; they have the power and they are making him tremble and cry and suffer and I hope once it's over, they play this on a constant loop in his solitary cell until he dies of rot.

Read some of the victim statements; this is cathartic for some of them.  

 

belljr

Footballguy
It was part of the plea deal that he accepted and now, he wants it to stop.  The victims are getting a chance to say directly to him what's been festering inside of them for years as the roles are now reversed.  He no longer has power over them; they have the power and they are making him tremble and cry and suffer and I hope once it's over, they play this on a constant loop in his solitary cell until he dies of rot.

Read some of the victim statements; this is cathartic for some of them.  
Thanks.  If it makes him suffer I'm all for it.

I just don't  I remember hearing vicitms have "open session" in court but I could also be completely wrong

 

Ilov80s

Footballguy
Weird story in how low on the radar it flew nationally. This has been on the news in Michigan regularly for awhile now. MSU's administration needs to be wiped clean. 

 

BroncoFreak_2K3

sucker for Orange
Thanks.  If it makes him suffer I'm all for it.

I just don't  I remember hearing vicitms have "open session" in court but I could also be completely wrong
The judge has also stated that she will allow more than the original number of victims to have their say if they would like. She said this could go on until Monday at the earliest. I hope like someone else said it’s on a continuous loop in his cell 24/7/365

 

General Malaise

Poop Lord
Weird story in how low on the radar it flew nationally. This has been on the news in Michigan regularly for awhile now. MSU's administration needs to be wiped clean. 
Yeah, from what I read, he was protected and the victims' reports were ignored, dismissed or discredited.  Also read that there was $10MM parked aside for victims.  I have a feeling that's not going to be near enough when the dust settles (and it will never settle for the victims, no matter the dollar amount).

His abuse started in the 90's with a 6 year old girl who was the daughter of a family friend.  It went on for 6 years.  She told her parents, who believed the monster over her.  He said she was lying.  Her father killed himself over the guilt not long ago.  

The number of victims and the years he was allowed to perpetuate his sick crimes under the nose of adults and supervisors and coaches and administrators who should have has suspicions but didn't even in the face of girls coming forward....my god, it's staggering to think how much negligence occurred.  $10MM?  Good luck with that, MSU. 

 

Yankee23Fan

Fair Tax!
Yeah, from what I read, he was protected and the victims' reports were ignored, dismissed or discredited.  Also read that there was $10MM parked aside for victims.  I have a feeling that's not going to be near enough when the dust settles (and it will never settle for the victims, no matter the dollar amount).

His abuse started in the 90's with a 6 year old girl who was the daughter of a family friend.  It went on for 6 years.  She told her parents, who believed the monster over her.  He said she was lying.  Her father killed himself over the guilt not long ago.  

The number of victims and the years he was allowed to perpetuate his sick crimes under the nose of adults and supervisors and coaches and administrators who should have has suspicions but didn't even in the face of girls coming forward....my god, it's staggering to think how much negligence occurred.  $10MM?  Good luck with that, MSU. 
I fully admit that I feel a father's rage, but really the more I read this the more I think MSU can't pay a high enough penalty.

 

Sinn Fein

Footballguy
Nassar complains about hearing victims, 5 more women ask to speak at sentencing

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/nassar-complains-about-hearing-victims-5-more-women-ask-to-speak-at-sentencing

"You may find it harsh that you are here, listening. But nothing is as harsh as what your victims endured for thousands of hours at your hands," the judge said. "Spending 4 or 5 days listening to them is significantly minor considering the hours of pleasure you had at their expense and ruining their lives."

In another section of the letter, Nassar complains how he must sit in the witness box.

"You're sitting here in the witness box not for you entertainment, but so your victims can face you in the eye without turning back constantly," she said.

The judge dismissed the letter to continue with the sentencing hearing.

"Writing this mumbo jumbo doesnt help you sir," she said.
video of the Judge addressing the letter

 

facook

Footballguy
It was part of the plea deal that he accepted and now, he wants it to stop.  The victims are getting a chance to say directly to him what's been festering inside of them for years as the roles are now reversed.  He no longer has power over them; they have the power and they are making him tremble and cry and suffer and I hope once it's over, they play this on a constant loop in his solitary cell until he dies of rot.

Read some of the victim statements; this is cathartic for some of them.  
I think cathartic is probably true but maybe even not strong enough.  I know an abuse victim who was strongly advised by her counselor to confront the man who abused her as a child, even if only through a letter, and spell out exactly what he'd done to her.  The counselor said until she did that she remained a victim of his every time she saw him or heard his name.  Basically, for her writing that letter gave her her voice back and helped her move forward in life as not a victim, but a truth-teller.  I really think for these young ladies spelling out to him what he has done is giving them a sense of freedom again. He's no longer their tormenter.  He's vanquished.  There is tremendous power in that.

 

General Malaise

Poop Lord
I think cathartic is probably true but maybe even not strong enough.  I know an abuse victim who was strongly advised by her counselor to confront the man who abused her as a child, even if only through a letter, and spell out exactly what he'd done to her.  The counselor said until she did that she remained a victim of his every time she saw him or heard his name.  Basically, for her writing that letter gave her her voice back and helped her move forward in life as not a victim, but a truth-teller.  I really think for these young ladies spelling out to him what he has done is giving them a sense of freedom again. He's no longer their tormenter.  He's vanquished.  There is tremendous power in that.
Beautiful.   You said it way better than I ever could, other guy from Oregon.

 

IvanKaramazov

Footballguy
I fully admit that I feel a father's rage, but really the more I read this the more I think MSU can't pay a high enough penalty.
I agree with TF on this.  Clearly some MSU staff and administrators behaved horribly here.  It goes without saying that they should be fired and (where appropriate) prosecuted.  But I can't seen any justification for taking it out on innocent people, like student-athletes and coaches in other programs who did absolutely nothing wrong.

 

Da Guru

Fair & Balanced
ESPN and a few others are now picking up on this story.  The MSU president is under fire to step down by the students and the East Lansing newspapers so she is toast as she should be.  The AD who the coaches reported to will probably have to fall on the sword as well.

MSU gymnastics loved being associated with the USA Olympic team and team doctor.  Nassar was viewed as a "God" in the field of treating gymnasts. Parents from all over the country wanted him to treat their injured athletes.  So many horrific mistakes on so many levels here.

Heard today this could cost MSU up to 100 million when all is said and done.

 

General Malaise

Poop Lord
I agree with TF on this.  Clearly some MSU staff and administrators behaved horribly here.  It goes without saying that they should be fired and (where appropriate) prosecuted.  But I can't seen any justification for taking it out on innocent people, like student-athletes and coaches in other programs who did absolutely nothing wrong.
:oldunsure:

 

Sinn Fein

Footballguy
I agree with TF on this.  Clearly some MSU staff and administrators behaved horribly here.  It goes without saying that they should be fired and (where appropriate) prosecuted.  But I can't seen any justification for taking it out on innocent people, like student-athletes and coaches in other programs who did absolutely nothing wrong.
You punish the institution - if the facts warrant it.  (I'll confess that I don't know enough about the case to understand how deep or wide the complicit behavior ran in the Athletic Department).

But - if it is wide enough and deep enough, where the institution lacked controls to prevent it - then you burn it down.  The school failed the Athletes and Coaches if that happens.  That is where the blame lies.

 

rascal

Footballguy
Needs to be such a strong punishment other schools finally take note as apparently MSU didn't learn from watching PSU 

 

IvanKaramazov

Footballguy
You punish the institution - if the facts warrant it.  (I'll confess that I don't know enough about the case to understand how deep or wide the complicit behavior ran in the Athletic Department).

But - if it is wide enough and deep enough, where the institution lacked controls to prevent it - then you burn it down.  The school failed the Athletes and Coaches if that happens.  That is where the blame lies.
It's literally not possible to punish an institution.  You can only punish people within an institution.  If you're going to punish the football program for something that gymnastic staffers did, then why not shut down the Physics department while you're at it?  That's equally as just.  

 

Sinn Fein

Footballguy
It's literally not possible to punish an institution.  You can only punish people within an institution.  If you're going to punish the football program for something that gymnastic staffers did, then why not shut down the Physics department while you're at it?  That's equally as just.  
You absolutely punish an institution.  

Again - I don't know the details behind MSU's culpability - so I am not saying to burn MSU down - but the institute derives financial, and other benefits, from the sports programs.  If the institution has lost control of the Athletic Department - then it makes sense to punish the institution by sanctioning the Athletic Department - to such an extent that it punishes bad behavior, and encourages future good behavior - from the institution.

And, yes, when teams get sanctioned, the athletes are often left without much recourse - but its the schools that have let them down - not the sanctioning body.  Part of the punishment is certainly the reputation of the school, and the likelihood that a future athlete might choose a different program.

In this particular case - I don't know where the system failed.  I can imagine the Gymnastics program taking a hit.  There seems to be some culpability in the training department.  But, I don't know how high up these decisions went.  But, if the AD/President are involved with trying to cover up misdeeds to protect the reputation of the institution (and I am not saying they are in this case) - at the expense of leaving this guy in a position to keep abusing female athletes - then I have no sympathy for the school or the athletic program as a whole...

 

IvanKaramazov

Footballguy
You absolutely punish an institution.  

Again - I don't know the details behind MSU's culpability - so I am not saying to burn MSU down - but the institute derives financial, and other benefits, from the sports programs.  If the institution has lost control of the Athletic Department - then it makes sense to punish the institution by sanctioning the Athletic Department - to such an extent that it punishes bad behavior, and encourages future good behavior - from the institution.

And, yes, when teams get sanctioned, the athletes are often left without much recourse - but its the schools that have let them down - not the sanctioning body.  Part of the punishment is certainly the reputation of the school, and the likelihood that a future athlete might choose a different program.

In this particular case - I don't know where the system failed.  I can imagine the Gymnastics program taking a hit.  There seems to be some culpability in the training department.  But, I don't know how high up these decisions went.  But, if the AD/President are involved with trying to cover up misdeeds to protect the reputation of the institution (and I am not saying they are in this case) - at the expense of leaving this guy in a position to keep abusing female athletes - then I have no sympathy for the school or the athletic program as a whole...
I'm not saying don't punish gymnastics. Sure, that's fine.  I just don't think there's any good argument for punishing some other sport because of misconduct in gymnastics.  

On the academic side of the house, all academic programs ultimately report to the provost.  So let's say the Department of Physics has a culture of academic misconduct, with everybody plagiarizing and fabricating data and everything.  It turns out that the chair knows, the dean knows, and the provost knows.  When this news breaks, should we dissolve the Department of Political Science because they report to the same provost?  This seems to be the exact same argument, but everybody would write it off as insane.  

 

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