MSU in the Crosshairs - Lawsuit Alleges MSU Encouraged Woman not to Report Rape by Basketball Players; Ohio State University Doctor Abused 177 Athlete (2 Viewers)

[Da Guru]

It's not about her being the "right one" to lead the university, as they state it.  Everything is secondary to the university sending a signal that they understand how serious this is and taking an action that reinforces that point.  The best way to show their accountability and demonstrate their concern for the victims would be to let the President go ..."tone at the top," as they say.  

If anything..don`t say a word until the dust settle.  To give Simon a vote of confidence today is a slap in the face to the victims. Simon is 73..how much longer was she going to stay on anyway?

 

[Kal El]

In response to the letter above:

The proverbial horse is long gone. Locking the door now is useless. You allowed a predator to operate right under your noses, and when complaints arose, you apparently did nothing. Congratulations, you're the new Penn State. Have fun getting sued by each and every one of the victims, and I doubt Michigan law will protect you for long.

 

[culdeus]

Nassar was also present in some capacity at the training facility that Bela Karyola (sp? sorry - on my phone) and his wife run in Texas. That's been taken off of the USAG grid now, too, and they are scrambling for a training center.

That guy was always creepy AF. But his wife gave off the worse vibe.  If that's even possible. 

 

[culdeus]

I see. From what it looks like, it's a lot of people refusing to believe little kids. The system failed them. I'm getting very tired of these stories where predators are allowed to act with impunity, and only when the number tops 3 digits is something actually done.

Relax dude. I havent been on this story much. Not much press on it in texas really until maybe Wednesday. 

Whole story is amazing more I read. I think I'm done reading though just too sad. Hope the guy lives a long scary life in jail and dies alone. 

 

[Kal El]

Relax dude. I havent been on this story much. Not much press on it in texas really until maybe Wednesday. 

Whole story is amazing more I read. I think I'm done reading though just too sad. Hope the guy lives a long scary life in jail and dies alone. 

That I can agree on.

 

[Ilov80s]

Relax dude. I havent been on this story much. Not much press on it in texas really until maybe Wednesday. 

Whole story is amazing more I read. I think I'm done reading though just too sad. Hope the guy lives a long scary life in jail and dies alone. 

Blows my mind how slow the national media was on this story. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

oooooooooooooooofffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2018/01/19/msu-board-trustees-still-supporting-simon/1049205001/

Yeah, #### these people.  They're doing severe damage to the institution that they're supposed to be looking out for.

 

[rascal]

That doesn't matter.  The underlying principle is the same: we punish people who break the rules, not third parties who did nothing wrong.  

The athlete's would be able to transfer with no penalty under my scenario.  Hell, I may make msu honor their scholarships.

 

[jabarony]

PSU's endowment is $3.6 Billion - why would the tax payers be on the hook?

Educate me - how is an endowment funded?  Donations?  Tuition?  Thanks. 

 

[tri-man 47]

Given some of the criticism leveled at MSU, I hope you will keep a few important points in mind.

First, 

Second,

It's not just this situation ...these little details irk me.  Carry on.

 

[culdeus]

Educate me - how is an endowment funded?  Donations?  Tuition?  Thanks. 

Donations from former students.  Usually, the endowment is run such that it kicks off interest to fund school activities and that forms the basis of the goodwill gesture.  

Sometimes the state itself sets up the endowment in the beginning with a land sale.  (Think like 1800s)

 

[General Malaise]

Educate me - how is an endowment funded?  Donations?  Tuition?  Thanks. 

Generational money that earns interest over a century plus; people dying and leaving money to it; donations, fund raisers.....endowments invest in hedge funds, not mine, though I have talked to several over 15 years.  PSU has a huge one.  They earn more in interest per day in this rate flat environment than you or I will make on a year.  

Tax payers were never going to be on the hook for Sandusky/Paterno and they won't be in Michigan for Nasser....unless MSU managed money as well as their government has.

 

[General Malaise]

I don't think damage control means the same thing to MSU that it does to the rest of us.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Aly Raisman pulls zero punches

 

[pollardsvision]

Aly Raisman pulls zero punches

Whether it can be fixed or not, I have no idea, but women's gymnastics in general just seems like it would lend towards all sorts of problems. We call it women's gymnastics, but obviously, there aren't a lot of grown women competing. Many of these girls clearly love the sport, but it does seem problematic to have a sport where you've got tiny little girls getting put through hell by domineering, egomaniacal men 5 hours everyday.

Nothing is as disturbing as what Nassar has done, but that coach sounds like he played a large part in enabling this. 

I'm not sure how women's gymnastics, in general, recovers from this. Or whether it should.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Women's figure skating seems like it's open to this same kind of thing, too. Especially on the international front (I can't even imagine what international gymnasts have gone through). 

I think that Raisman pointing the finger directly at the USAG and the USOC is going to be seismic. 

 

[otb_lifer]

Aly Raisman pulls zero punches

there was a picture making the rounds on reddit a few months ago, back when it broke that McKayla was foregoing her 'gag order', and ready to speak out ... it was from London 2012 - now, she (Maroney) was a whirlwind of personality during those games, usually exhibiting either: jubilation, intensity (or resting "##### face", as the kids say), and, of course, the now (in)famous not impressed podium moment ...

but the pic i am referring to was of Nassar working her thigh, and she had a look of lifelessness to her, almost a doll-like, catatonic blank expression, totally bereft of any of the emotion/animation she made her trademark.  it's chilling now to think that she, along with the rest, were completely subjugated to this #####'s "treatment" as their main source of injury relief, preperation, etc.   i mean, there she is, the biggest moment of her life, and this guy is working her before the eyes of the entire world ... and she has that intimate knowledge of the assaults he perpetrated on her - talk about a pic telling a thousand words ... like i said, chilling is the only way to describe that shot  :(

 

[JuniorGong]

Aly Raisman pulls zero punches

Just watched her full statement, not embarrassed to say that I shed a few tears watching it. Quite a remarkable and powerful speech.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Aly Raisman pulls zero punches

No kidding. She is remarkable. And she added the USOC to my burn it down list.

 

[Hawkeye21]

I don't understand why people keep saying punish the institution.  The only thing that can be punished is people.

Institutions do not have feelings.  Corporations do not have feelings.  Neither have hearts or anything that resembles emotion.  They feel no joy or sorrow, and they feel no pleasure or punishment.  Whether it be a large college, or a huge business, all they really are is pieces of paper stating a legal entity.  If MSU was totally destroyed tomorrow, shut down, to never again exist, the pieces of paper that document what is the entity of MSU wouldn't have a care in the world.     It's only the people who are associated that can truly be impacted.

What you can punish is people.  And you do that through either incarceration, taking away livelihoods, restricting future earnings, and what of course normally happens is taking away their money.   So what should happen is to punish the people who have responsibility.  Restrict their ability to profit in the future, or perhaps take some of their profits from the past.  If it rises to that level, pursue criminal actions.  That is the only place that punishment should be placed.

My thought is that the institution is the vehicle used to perform these evil occurrences.  Without the institution this would not have been possible.  The fact that it was used and others will stand by it and defend it because they are fan or went to school there is why I want it all gone.

Have you ever seen or heard what PSU fans are like?  It's like they live in their own little world where PSU can do no wrong, Joe Pa was didn't know anything and Sandusky was used in some big conspiracy theory.  They act this way because they care more about their sports and institution than they do about human decency.

I want it all gone.  I want the people who support it to be all punished in some way.

 

[jabarony]

Generational money that earns interest over a century plus; people dying and leaving money to it; donations, fund raisers.....endowments invest in hedge funds, not mine, though I have talked to several over 15 years.  PSU has a huge one.  They earn more in interest per day in this rate flat environment than you or I will make on a year.  

Tax payers were never going to be on the hook for Sandusky/Paterno and they won't be in Michigan for Nasser....unless MSU managed money as well as their government has.

I see.  Thank you.

 

[Tom Servo]

Have you ever seen or heard what PSU fans are like?  It's like they live in their own little world where PSU can do no wrong, Joe Pa was didn't know anything and Sandusky was used in some big conspiracy theory.  They act this way because they care more about their sports and institution than they do about human decency.

Nice generalization, corn-fed hick.

 

[Hawkeye21]

Nice generalization, corn-fed hick.

Not a hick at all but I do love sweet corn.  It was a generalization and has been seen time and time again.  PSU football should be given the death penalty.

 

[Tom Servo]

Execute sparty

I dunno; he's probably the only innocent one there.

 

[Tom Servo]

Not a hick at all but I do love sweet corn. It was a generalization and has been seen time and time again.   PSU football should be given the death penalty.

Tell that to the Penn State fans on this board like @ClownCausedChaos2 @CentralPA @joffer @Fat Nick @Insein @Jutz @Trey and many others I'm forgetting that we're just part of some paralyzed-face and drooling truthers who refuse the acknowledge what happened. It was terrible, disgusting and nasty. Sandusky deserves every punishment he's gotten and then some. 

The perpetrator and his son are in jail, the coach is dead, and the top two people at the university got charged. The football team was slapped with sanctions and fined. What was PSU's response? They - wait for it - ACKNOWLEDGED what happened. A state senator SUED  to keep the money in state to help victims here in PA. The monument that honored said deceased coach was taken down and probably buried next to Hoffa's body.

Are their still people - alums both real and t-shirt - that are that brain dead? Darn straight there are. I'm guessing they are in the vast (but somewhat vocal) minority. 

So, I dare you to paint all of us PSU fans on this board with this generalization. If not, #### and go back to painting your silos or whatever mind-numbing passion passes for entertainment in Flatlandia. 

 

[nysfl2]

oooooooooooooooofffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2018/01/19/msu-board-trustees-still-supporting-simon/1049205001/

I've never cared much about the election for Boards of Trustees before, but every one of these jackholes needs to go.

Brian Brelsin, the Chair, and Mitch Lyons up for re-election this year, for other Michiganders.

 

[Hawkeye21]

Tell that to the Penn State fans on this board like @ClownCausedChaos2 @CentralPA @joffer @Fat Nick @Insein @Jutz @Trey and many others I'm forgetting that we're just part of some paralyzed-face and drooling truthers who refuse the acknowledge what happened. It was terrible, disgusting and nasty. Sandusky deserves every punishment he's gotten and then some. 

The perpetrator and his son are in jail, the coach is dead, and the top two people at the university got charged. The football team was slapped with sanctions and fined. What was PSU's response? They - wait for it - ACKNOWLEDGED what happened. A state senator SUED  to keep the money in state to help victims here in PA. The monument that honored said deceased coach was taken down and probably buried next to Hoffa's body.

Are their still people - alums both real and t-shirt - that are that brain dead? Darn straight there are. I'm guessing they are in the vast (but somewhat vocal) minority. 

So, I dare you to paint all of us PSU fans on this board with this generalization. If not, #### and go back to painting your silos or whatever mind-numbing passion passes for entertainment in Flatlandia. 

I know it was a generalization.  It happens when you're so incredibly pissed off at something.  I know there are people that are not as I described but I feel there are still far too many of them.  I know how PSU was punished and I feel it wasn't enough.  Maybe my opinion is too harsh for some but I feel it requires it.  If a college like SMU can get punished for cheating then I feel PSU should receive so much worse.  I feel MSU should have the hammer brought down on them harder that has ever been seen before in college.  Make an example out of them now since they whiffed on PSU.

 

[Tom Servo]

I know it was a generalization.  It happens when you're so incredibly pissed off at something.  I know there are people that are not as I described but I feel there are still far too many of them.  I know how PSU was punished and I feel it wasn't enough.  Maybe my opinion is too harsh for some but I feel it requires it.  If a college like SMU can get punished for cheating then I feel PSU should receive so much worse.  I feel MSU should have the hammer brought down on them harder that has ever been seen before in college.  Make an example out of them now since they whiffed on PSU.

It's OK. Even though I went to one class at PSU, I call myself a t-shirt alumni. A lot of fans are embarrassed by what happened and know that for the rest of their lives this incident will be thrown in their faces. People still refer to Michael Jackson as a kid toucher, and he's been dead - what? ten years? Sometimes, you let it slide. This time, I couldn't.

I think with a topic like this, emotions will run high. It's understandable; no one in the two standard deviations of humanity are in favor of sexually abusing kids. We can't wrap our heads around it. It hits us at a base, emotional level and our response is to want to burn everything down. Once the Israelis caught, tried, convicted and executed Adolph Eichmann, they cremated him immediately, took his ashes out to sea in international waters, dumped them out and finally rinsed out the bucket the ashes were in. They wanted no part of the evil personified by Eichmann to have any contact with their shores. It's essentially what we're feeling here.

 

[Hawkeye21]

It's OK. Even though I went to one class at PSU, I call myself a t-shirt alumni. A lot of fans are embarrassed by what happened and know that for the rest of their lives this incident will be thrown in their faces. People still refer to Michael Jackson as a kid toucher, and he's been dead - what? ten years? Sometimes, you let it slide. This time, I couldn't.

I think with a topic like this, emotions will run high. It's understandable; no one in the two standard deviations of humanity are in favor of sexually abusing kids because we can't wrap our heads around it. It hits us at a base, emotional level and our response is to want to burn everything down. Once the Israelis caught, tried, convicted and executed Adolph Eichmann, they cremated him immediately, took his ashes out to sea in international waters, dumped them out and finally rinsed out the bucket the ashes were in. They wanted no part of the evil personified by Eichmann to have any contact with their shores. It's essentially what we're feeling here.

That's about how I feel yet I see PSU going on with life as if it never happened.  Back to playing football and national rankings.  I don't feel they deserve it.  It's too late to do anything about PSU now but it can be done with MSU and I hope it is.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

seems like MSU isn't getting as much heat as PSU that's for sure

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I do hope that people are not saying shut down the football/basketball programs because of what happened with gymnastics?? 

 

[Hawkeye21]

I do hope that people are not saying shut down the football/basketball programs because of what happened with gymnastics?? 

The whole damn sports program is corrupt, might as well.  Still pisses me off they had a football player in jail and then a couple days later he was on the field playing.  WTF?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

The whole damn sports program is corrupt, might as well.  Still pisses me off they had a football player in jail and then a couple days later he was on the field playing.  WTF?

Who yoy talking about lj scott??

 

[Hawkeye21]

Who yoy talking about lj scott??

Chris Rucker.  He served 8 days in jail for an OWI, was released on Thursday, reinstated and played Saturday morning at Iowa.

http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2010/10/michigan_states_chris_l_rucker_3.html

This is some BS right here. "Dantonio said his "zero tolerance" policy does not mean an automatic dismissal from the team."

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Chris Rucker.  He served 8 days in jail for an OWI, was released on Thursday, reinstated and played Saturday morning at Iowa.

http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2010/10/michigan_states_chris_l_rucker_3.html

This is some BS right here. "Dantonio said his "zero tolerance" policy does not mean an automatic dismissal from the team."

Oh i see against iowa. Lol

 

[Spartans Rule]

Iowa won that game 37-6 and Chris Rucker's presence on the field was without a doubt a huge boost to the Hawkeyes. One of the worst players in MSU history IMO.

 

[Christo]

I don't understand why people keep saying punish the institution.  The only thing that can be punished is people.

When the people try to irrationally protect the institution (as the board has done with it's vote of confidence for Simon), it's the only thing to do.

 

[Christo]

I do hope that people are not saying shut down the football/basketball programs because of what happened with gymnastics?? 

Why not? If people in the athletic department and non-athletic department administration knew, why not shut it all down?

 

[General Malaise]

there was a picture making the rounds on reddit a few months ago, back when it broke that McKayla was foregoing her 'gag order', and ready to speak out ... it was from London 2012 - now, she (Maroney) was a whirlwind of personality during those games, usually exhibiting either: jubilation, intensity (or resting "##### face", as the kids say), and, of course, the now (in)famous not impressed podium moment ...

but the pic i am referring to was of Nassar working her thigh, and she had a look of lifelessness to her, almost a doll-like, catatonic blank expression, totally bereft of any of the emotion/animation she made her trademark.  it's chilling now to think that she, along with the rest, were completely subjugated to this #####'s "treatment" as their main source of injury relief, preperation, etc.   i mean, there she is, the biggest moment of her life, and this guy is working her before the eyes of the entire world ... and she has that intimate knowledge of the assaults he perpetrated on her - talk about a pic telling a thousand words ... like i said, chilling is the only way to describe that shot  :(

Gut wrenching.  

Christy Tiegan offered to pay her $100,000 + fine for violating the gag order, which the USGA or whatever rescinded to allow her to speak.  I love Tiegan.  

 

[otb_lifer]

Gut wrenching.  

Christy Tiegan offered to pay her $100,000 + fine for violating the gag order, which the USGA or whatever rescinded to allow her to speak.  I love Tiegan.  

" 'I had a dream to go to the Olympics,' she writes in a statement , 'and the things that I had to endure to get there, were unnecessary, and disgusting.'

" 'Dr. Nassar told me that I was receiving 'medically necessary treatment that he had been performing on patients for over 30 years," ' she writes. 'It started when I was 13 years old, at one of my first National Team training camps, in Texas, and it didn't end until I left the sport.' She says the abuse continued in London during the 2012 games.

"Maroney says the scariest night of her life happened when she was 15 years old, when the team traveled to Tokyo. She says Nassar gave her a sleeping pill to help her sleep on the flight, and when she awoke she was alone with him in his hotel room, 'getting a "treatment.' " She does not describe his specific actions.

" 'I thought I was going to die that night,' she writes."

- and, according to This, the order she was under was illegal

choice excerpt:  “A simple fact is this. If Michigan State University, USA Gymnastics and the US Olympic Committee had paid attention to any of the red flags in Larry Nassar’s behavior I never would have met him, I never would have been “treated” by him and I never would have been abused by him,” said Ms. Maroney.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Oh i see against iowa. Lol

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Iowa won that game 37-6 and Chris Rucker's presence on the field was without a doubt a huge boost to the Hawkeyes. One of the worst players in MSU history IMO.

 

[tri-man 47]

That's about how I feel yet I see PSU going on with life as if it never happened.  Back to playing football and national rankings.  I don't feel they deserve it.  It's too late to do anything about PSU now but it can be done with MSU and I hope it is.

This is an intriguing issue to consider.  PSU was punished, but was it insufficient to cause MSU to take it to heart?  If the PSU punishment was effective in sending a signal to others, then red flags at MSU should have led to immediate and strong reaction by MSU.  Ideally, folks at MSU should have responded because it was the right thing to do.  But then again, the motivation of :shiver: "we don't want to go through what PSU went though" could also have been the impetus for action.  Apparently not, though.

 

[culdeus]

Maybe I'm on an island here, but I think the decision was made for PSU that the current football players should not be punished for the actions of a sick man decades ago.  

Now, I'm biased since I have a SMU affiliation, but I mean SMU could be the Miami of Texas today if they went a little easier.  Capable of being both fun and shaking things up every so often, even today and now they are mostly a joke. 

So I'm pissed PSU fans won't really ever get so disenfranchised, and what was done was far worse, but in that sense I get the idea in the death penalty being applied there applied to the actual players who were also at least partially culpable.

.02

If they do a single thing to the football program I would be stunned here.  AFAIK they aren't even 3 degrees of separation away here but tbf I'm actively trying to not read all the victim accounts to see exactly who got hurt here.  If a football coach was in the mix here then I'm not sure what to do.  

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

Tell that to the Penn State fans on this board like @ClownCausedChaos2 @CentralPA @joffer @Fat Nick @Insein @Jutz @Trey and many others I'm forgetting that we're just part of some paralyzed-face and drooling truthers who refuse the acknowledge what happened. It was terrible, disgusting and nasty. Sandusky deserves every punishment he's gotten and then some. 

The perpetrator and his son are in jail, the coach is dead, and the top two people at the university got charged. The football team was slapped with sanctions and fined. What was PSU's response? They - wait for it - ACKNOWLEDGED what happened. A state senator SUED  to keep the money in state to help victims here in PA. The monument that honored said deceased coach was taken down and probably buried next to Hoffa's body.

Are their still people - alums both real and t-shirt - that are that brain dead? Darn straight there are. I'm guessing they are in the vast (but somewhat vocal) minority. 

So, I dare you to paint all of us PSU fans on this board with this generalization. If not, #### and go back to painting your silos or whatever mind-numbing passion passes for entertainment in Flatlandia. 

Not a hick at all but I do love sweet corn.  It was a generalization and has been seen time and time again.  PSU football should be given the death penalty.

I really couldn't have said it better, Tom.  Unfortunately, yes, those brain dead supporters were the most outspoken and did seem to speak for all PSU fans.  And nothing pisses off the majority of us level-headed fans more.  We know what happened.  We know that there were people at the highest levels involved, but like Tom said, they faced their prosecution.

If you don't think PSU was punished harshly enough, blame the NCAA for folding.  Penn State football makes a ####load of money.  If you wanted them to get the death penalty, realize that the NCAA didn't have the backbone to do it and face the impending financial implications.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I do hope that people are not saying shut down the football/basketball programs because of what happened with gymnastics?? 

Yes, people are making that exact argument.  Strangely, we should punish football because of misconduct in gymnastics. That's unjust and unethical, but there are lots of people in this thread signing onto that position.

 

[McGarnicle]

I think if I had a daughter in gymnastics I'd be wary of every male who chose a profession in that world. Just common sense, a certain percentage are going to choose that career because they are pedophiles. Not a huge percentage and I wouldn't be paranoid about it, just vigilant.

The idea that a girl would report abuse and her parents wouldn't believe her??? Mind boggling. What in the holy hell?

 

[jabarony]

Tell that to the Penn State fans on this board like @ClownCausedChaos2 @CentralPA @joffer @Fat Nick @Insein @Jutz @Trey and many others I'm forgetting that we're just part of some paralyzed-face and drooling truthers who refuse the acknowledge what happened. It was terrible, disgusting and nasty. Sandusky deserves every punishment he's gotten and then some. 

The perpetrator and his son are in jail, the coach is dead, and the top two people at the university got charged. The football team was slapped with sanctions and fined. What was PSU's response? They - wait for it - ACKNOWLEDGED what happened. A state senator SUED  to keep the money in state to help victims here in PA. The monument that honored said deceased coach was taken down and probably buried next to Hoffa's body.

Are their still people - alums both real and t-shirt - that are that brain dead? Darn straight there are. I'm guessing they are in the vast (but somewhat vocal) minority. 

So, I dare you to paint all of us PSU fans on this board with this generalization. If not, #### and go back to painting your silos or whatever mind-numbing passion passes for entertainment in Flatlandia. 

Didn't PSU honor Paterno at a game just a couple years back?  Not saying all PSU people did, but that seems like an odd thing to do to appease a vocal minority. Or perhaps a better way to say it -  an odd thing to do if a majority of the PSU supporters were vehemently anti Paterno.

 

[Politician Spock]

Why not? If people in the athletic department and non-athletic department administration knew, why not shut it all down?

Gotta say this is a strong argument. First off, if the punishment PSU got didn't scare the MSU administration enough into doing something instead of being another school that just looks the other way, then the punishment to a school for looking the other way needs to be harsher.

It sucks that this would affect the football and basketball programs, but they are under the umbrella, and the umbrella is the problem. 

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Gotta say this is a strong argument. First off, if the punishment PSU got didn't scare the MSU administration enough into doing something instead of being another school that just looks the other way, then the punishment to a school for looking the other way needs to be harsher.

It sucks that this would affect the football and basketball programs, but they are under the umbrella, and the umbrella is the problem. 

So is the USOC and USA Gymnastics. So is the NCAA. Shut all college and Olympic programs down?

I think every single person who was reported to and did nothing should be punished to the fullest extent. These are vile people - either ill & demented like Nassar or (and in my mind even worse) those who knew and didn't do a ####### thing because their priorities are so twisted. Burn them all. Every single person in a position of power who knew and did nothing - hack them, prosecute if possible, and ban them for life.

But I don't think MSU Athletics itself should be shuttered. The real "umbrella", in this case, is USAG. Many of these violations took place away from MSU and with kids with no connection there.