Muslims in NYC Planning to Build Second Mosque Near Ground Zero (2 Viewers)

[MongoL3]

I can't believe people are even debating this. Are we really going to allow a mosque to get built at 9/11? How crazy is that? The public should have the right to stop this. Didn't the people living around Gettysburg stop a housing development from being built nearbye? Ground Zero should be treated the same way. And LOL at people suggesting that Islam was not responsible for 9/11. Without Islam, there would have been no 9/11.

You do know that there isn't really a place called "9/11" right?

Ground Zero. Whatever.

It's not really at Ground Zero either.

Oh yeah, i love playing the word game when i dont agree with someone. How cool

 

[jon_mx]

Sometimes I wonder if liberals even understand what the crusades were. They throw it around as if it is something all Christians should be condemned about. Besides the fact it all started about 1000 years ago, it was really a response to Muslim aggression. What is now Israel was largely a Christian area. Christians built up many churches. But then in the 7th century, Muslims took it over. But what really got Christians upset was when the Muslims destroyed the Church which marked the spot of Jesus crucifixion and his grave. This lead to a lot of built up anger against Muslims, and eventually lead to the first crusades. This was a very brutal period in the history of mankind, and the Crusades were not exactly unjustified. Of course there were abuses, but it cut both ways. None of mankind could be too proud of how anyone behaved back then. It is pretty ignorant to just point to the Crusaders as the evil ones.

 

[McJose]

I can't believe people are even debating this. Are we really going to allow a mosque to get built at 9/11? How crazy is that? The public should have the right to stop this. Didn't the people living around Gettysburg stop a housing development from being built nearbye? Ground Zero should be treated the same way. And LOL at people suggesting that Islam was not responsible for 9/11. Without Islam, there would have been no 9/11.

You do know that there isn't really a place called "9/11" right?

Ground Zero. Whatever.

It's not really at Ground Zero either.

Oh yeah, i love playing the word game when i dont agree with someone. How cool

You do?

 

[MongoL3]

Its an old strategy but i still get a kick out of it. Its so oldschool. Good for you McJosie

 

[McJose]

Sometimes I wonder if liberals even understand what the crusades were. They throw it around as if it is something all Christians should be condemned about. Besides the fact it all started about 1000 years ago, it was really a response to Muslim aggression. What is now Israel was largely a Christian area. Christians built up many churches. But then in the 7th century, Muslims took it over. But what really got Christians upset was when the Muslims destroyed the Church which marked the spot of Jesus crucifixion and his grave. This lead to a lot of built up anger against Muslims, and eventually lead to the first crusades. This was a very brutal period in the history of mankind, and the Crusades were not exactly unjustified. Of course there were abuses, but it cut both ways. None of mankind could be too proud of how anyone behaved back then. It is pretty ignorant to just point to the Crusaders as the evil ones.

This isn't why the First Crusade was called for.

 

[McJose]

Its an old strategy but i still get a kick out of it. Its so oldschool. Good for you McJosie

What 'old strategy'? Pointing out that the Mosque isn't going to be built at Ground Zero or that there isn't a place called "9/11"?

 

[MongoL3]

Its an old strategy but i still get a kick out of it. Its so oldschool. Good for you McJosie

What 'old strategy'? Pointing out that the Mosque isn't going to be built at Ground Zero or that there isn't a place called "9/11"?

 

[datonn]

Suppose, after the KKK did something horrible like a lynching, one third of the churches in this country spoke in favor of it? Suppose the other two-thirds of Christian churches stayed silent? Suppose a poll was taken among Christians around the world, and 70% of them approved of the KKK's actions? If that happened, Christianity would forever be linked with the KKK.

You can't dismiss 9/11 as "the actions of a few", because of the reaction by the Muslim world. Do you remember the cheering and celebration in places like Gaza and Iran?

The only effect the United States has had on the Middle East is that we made them a whole lot richer. We discovered their oil, we drilled it for them, and then allowed them nationalize most of the wealth that WE created. If not for us, that whole area would be the backwater that it was 100 years ago. And hopefully soon we'll uncover an alternative tp petroleum, and then it can become a backwater again. But in the meantime we don't need to humiliate ourselves by allowing them to spit in our faces with this mosque.

I'd be willing to wager that before JFK and Lyndon Johnson, before Civil Rights became the law of the land (when the KKK was actually doing a lot of the lynchings you are referring to), a minor but significant percentage of church leaders across the South and parts of the Midwest were speaking out in favor of it. Not 33%, but even 0.001% is too many. That said, how many churches at that time didn't speak out against it? Not speaking out in support of it, but not speaking out against it? Failing to take an outward stand and saying that what the KKK was doing was wrong, and most-certainly NOT following the teachings of Christianity?! I'm guessing maybe one-third.I remember seeing the TV footage in Gaza the afternoon of 9/11. People burning American flags, waving shoes in the air and firing off guns in celebration. My first reaction?! Wishing that Israel and/or the United States would drop a nuclear bomb on that area and turn everyone living there into sulfur. That said, months/years passed, and I simmered down...realizing that two wrongs do not make a right, and that killing more people will just lead to, guess what?! Another generation or two of killing, hatred and distrust.

One other thing: Your reference to them and our (bolded). Five million Americans self-identify as Muslim. So are you saying that five million Americans (or 3.5 million, AKA 70% of individuals) were dancing and celebrating in the streets when the planes struck the Twin Towers?! I could be wrong, but I'm guessing about 4.95 million or more of those individuals, those citizens, those AMERICANS might take extreme offense to your lumping "them" in with people in the Middle East.

People need to speak out against the racism and religious discrimination that is being exhibited by people who are all wrapped up in "them" and "us," when "them and us" is also "we." If you are a Christian, ask yourself one simple question related to this issue:

What would Jesus do?!

I'm guessing racism, intolerance, and hatred/hostility probably wouldn't be terribly high on the To Do List.

 

[McJose]

Its an old strategy but i still get a kick out of it. Its so oldschool. Good for you McJosie

What 'old strategy'? Pointing out that the Mosque isn't going to be built at Ground Zero or that there isn't a place called "9/11"?

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Its an old strategy but i still get a kick out of it. Its so oldschool. Good for you McJosie

What 'old strategy'? Pointing out that the Mosque isn't going to be built at Ground Zero or that there isn't a place called "9/11"?

Ah the other old strategy. You're a true master at this game.

 

[jon_mx]

Sometimes I wonder if liberals even understand what the crusades were. They throw it around as if it is something all Christians should be condemned about. Besides the fact it all started about 1000 years ago, it was really a response to Muslim aggression. What is now Israel was largely a Christian area. Christians built up many churches. But then in the 7th century, Muslims took it over. But what really got Christians upset was when the Muslims destroyed the Church which marked the spot of Jesus crucifixion and his grave. This lead to a lot of built up anger against Muslims, and eventually lead to the first crusades. This was a very brutal period in the history of mankind, and the Crusades were not exactly unjustified. Of course there were abuses, but it cut both ways. None of mankind could be too proud of how anyone behaved back then. It is pretty ignorant to just point to the Crusaders as the evil ones.

This isn't why the First Crusade was called for.

I did not say it was. But it was important in that it drove Christians to resent Muslims. The first crusades were an opportunity to recapture taken land and to fight against abuses by Muslims.

 

[McJose]

Its an old strategy but i still get a kick out of it. Its so oldschool. Good for you McJosie

What 'old strategy'? Pointing out that the Mosque isn't going to be built at Ground Zero or that there isn't a place called "9/11"?

Ah the other old strategy. You're a true master at this game.

 

[Burton]

Suppose, after the KKK did something horrible like a lynching, one third of the churches in this country spoke in favor of it? Suppose the other two-thirds of Christian churches stayed silent? Suppose a poll was taken among Christians around the world, and 70% of them approved of the KKK's actions? If that happened, Christianity would forever be linked with the KKK.

You can't dismiss 9/11 as "the actions of a few", because of the reaction by the Muslim world. Do you remember the cheering and celebration in places like Gaza and Iran?

The only effect the United States has had on the Middle East is that we made them a whole lot richer. We discovered their oil, we drilled it for them, and then allowed them nationalize most of the wealth that WE created. If not for us, that whole area would be the backwater that it was 100 years ago. And hopefully soon we'll uncover an alternative tp petroleum, and then it can become a backwater again. But in the meantime we don't need to humiliate ourselves by allowing them to spit in our faces with this mosque.

I'd be willing to wager that before JFK and Lyndon Johnson, before Civil Rights became the law of the land (when the KKK was actually doing a lot of the lynchings you are referring to), a minor but significant percentage of church leaders across the South and parts of the Midwest were speaking out in favor of it. Not 33%, but even 0.001% is too many. That said, how many churches at that time didn't speak out against it? Not speaking out in support of it, but not speaking out against it? Failing to take an outward stand and saying that what the KKK was doing was wrong, and most-certainly NOT following the teachings of Christianity?! I'm guessing maybe one-third.I remember seeing the TV footage in Gaza the afternoon of 9/11. People burning American flags, waving shoes in the air and firing off guns in celebration. My first reaction?! Wishing that Israel and/or the United States would drop a nuclear bomb on that area and turn everyone living there into sulfur. That said, months/years passed, and I simmered down...realizing that two wrongs do not make a right, and that killing more people will just lead to, guess what?! Another generation or two of killing, hatred and distrust.

One other thing: Your reference to them and our (bolded). Five million Americans self-identify as Muslim. So are you saying that five million Americans (or 3.5 million, AKA 70% of individuals) were dancing and celebrating in the streets when the planes struck the Twin Towers?! I could be wrong, but I'm guessing about 4.95 million or more of those individuals, those citizens, those AMERICANS might take extreme offense to your lumping "them" in with people in the Middle East.

People need to speak out against the racism and religious discrimination that is being exhibited by people who are all wrapped up in "them" and "us," when "them and us" is also "we." If you are a Christian, ask yourself one simple question related to this issue:

What would Jesus do?!

I'm guessing racism, intolerance, and hatred/hostility probably wouldn't be terribly high on the To Do List.

Do you really believe that having a mosque built at/near Ground Zero is going to decrease the level of tension between us and the Muslim world? It's going to make things worse, not better. It's a stupid idea, stupid for them to do it, and even stupider for us to allow it.

 

[McJose]

Suppose, after the KKK did something horrible like a lynching, one third of the churches in this country spoke in favor of it? Suppose the other two-thirds of Christian churches stayed silent? Suppose a poll was taken among Christians around the world, and 70% of them approved of the KKK's actions? If that happened, Christianity would forever be linked with the KKK.

You can't dismiss 9/11 as "the actions of a few", because of the reaction by the Muslim world. Do you remember the cheering and celebration in places like Gaza and Iran?

The only effect the United States has had on the Middle East is that we made them a whole lot richer. We discovered their oil, we drilled it for them, and then allowed them nationalize most of the wealth that WE created. If not for us, that whole area would be the backwater that it was 100 years ago. And hopefully soon we'll uncover an alternative tp petroleum, and then it can become a backwater again. But in the meantime we don't need to humiliate ourselves by allowing them to spit in our faces with this mosque.

I'd be willing to wager that before JFK and Lyndon Johnson, before Civil Rights became the law of the land (when the KKK was actually doing a lot of the lynchings you are referring to), a minor but significant percentage of church leaders across the South and parts of the Midwest were speaking out in favor of it. Not 33%, but even 0.001% is too many. That said, how many churches at that time didn't speak out against it? Not speaking out in support of it, but not speaking out against it? Failing to take an outward stand and saying that what the KKK was doing was wrong, and most-certainly NOT following the teachings of Christianity?! I'm guessing maybe one-third.I remember seeing the TV footage in Gaza the afternoon of 9/11. People burning American flags, waving shoes in the air and firing off guns in celebration. My first reaction?! Wishing that Israel and/or the United States would drop a nuclear bomb on that area and turn everyone living there into sulfur. That said, months/years passed, and I simmered down...realizing that two wrongs do not make a right, and that killing more people will just lead to, guess what?! Another generation or two of killing, hatred and distrust.

One other thing: Your reference to them and our (bolded). Five million Americans self-identify as Muslim. So are you saying that five million Americans (or 3.5 million, AKA 70% of individuals) were dancing and celebrating in the streets when the planes struck the Twin Towers?! I could be wrong, but I'm guessing about 4.95 million or more of those individuals, those citizens, those AMERICANS might take extreme offense to your lumping "them" in with people in the Middle East.

People need to speak out against the racism and religious discrimination that is being exhibited by people who are all wrapped up in "them" and "us," when "them and us" is also "we." If you are a Christian, ask yourself one simple question related to this issue:

What would Jesus do?!

I'm guessing racism, intolerance, and hatred/hostility probably wouldn't be terribly high on the To Do List.

Do you really believe that having a mosque built at/near Ground Zero is going to decrease the level of tension between us and the Muslim world? It's going to make things worse, not better. It's a stupid idea, stupid for them to do it, and even stupider for us to allow it.

You didn't answer his question.

 

[badmojo1006]

Suppose, after the KKK did something horrible like a lynching, one third of the churches in this country spoke in favor of it? Suppose the other two-thirds of Christian churches stayed silent? Suppose a poll was taken among Christians around the world, and 70% of them approved of the KKK's actions? If that happened, Christianity would forever be linked with the KKK.

You can't dismiss 9/11 as "the actions of a few", because of the reaction by the Muslim world. Do you remember the cheering and celebration in places like Gaza and Iran?

The only effect the United States has had on the Middle East is that we made them a whole lot richer. We discovered their oil, we drilled it for them, and then allowed them nationalize most of the wealth that WE created. If not for us, that whole area would be the backwater that it was 100 years ago. And hopefully soon we'll uncover an alternative tp petroleum, and then it can become a backwater again. But in the meantime we don't need to humiliate ourselves by allowing them to spit in our faces with this mosque.

I'd be willing to wager that before JFK and Lyndon Johnson, before Civil Rights became the law of the land (when the KKK was actually doing a lot of the lynchings you are referring to), a minor but significant percentage of church leaders across the South and parts of the Midwest were speaking out in favor of it. Not 33%, but even 0.001% is too many. That said, how many churches at that time didn't speak out against it? Not speaking out in support of it, but not speaking out against it? Failing to take an outward stand and saying that what the KKK was doing was wrong, and most-certainly NOT following the teachings of Christianity?! I'm guessing maybe one-third.I remember seeing the TV footage in Gaza the afternoon of 9/11. People burning American flags, waving shoes in the air and firing off guns in celebration. My first reaction?! Wishing that Israel and/or the United States would drop a nuclear bomb on that area and turn everyone living there into sulfur. That said, months/years passed, and I simmered down...realizing that two wrongs do not make a right, and that killing more people will just lead to, guess what?! Another generation or two of killing, hatred and distrust.

One other thing: Your reference to them and our (bolded). Five million Americans self-identify as Muslim. So are you saying that five million Americans (or 3.5 million, AKA 70% of individuals) were dancing and celebrating in the streets when the planes struck the Twin Towers?! I could be wrong, but I'm guessing about 4.95 million or more of those individuals, those citizens, those AMERICANS might take extreme offense to your lumping "them" in with people in the Middle East.

People need to speak out against the racism and religious discrimination that is being exhibited by people who are all wrapped up in "them" and "us," when "them and us" is also "we." If you are a Christian, ask yourself one simple question related to this issue:

What would Jesus do?!

I'm guessing racism, intolerance, and hatred/hostility probably wouldn't be terribly high on the To Do List.

Do you really believe that having a mosque built at/near Ground Zero is going to decrease the level of tension between us and the Muslim world? It's going to make things worse, not better. It's a stupid idea, stupid for them to do it, and even stupider for us to allow it.

Can you answer his question? Are you religious?

 

[Smack Tripper]

In all honesty, when you reward the religious followers with a mosque after they've committed the worst terrorist act in our nations history just a block away from where it all took place. You're kinda asking for trouble down the line. JMHOHopefully im wrong....

do you want to bejudged and accounted for by the actions of the few in the name of your religion? Are Christians still accountable the crusades?

a few??actions of a few?? few in terms of who was hijacking the plane but they have a pretty big following here and abroad, and the crusades is a little out of our time dont you think. 9/11 didnt happen 1000 years ago....

There are 1.5 billion muslims in the world. 23 attacked us on 9/11 and fewer than that have launched subsequent attacks. And 9/11 wasn't a 100 years ago, but it was 10, at what point do we start to let it go? Its enough already. But in respect to this "pretty big following", what or who are you going after? Where does this flow down from? If your solution is to just go out and execute 1.5 billion people so that we might feel safe, I don't know what to tell you. Christ, the majority of hijackers were from Saudi Arabia and we did nothing with that country, no sanctions, no strikes, nothing. This whole thing is a game, designed to push your buttons and rile you up over nonsense issues like this. Muslims have been a part of the NY community for years, and always will be. NY is condensed and compressed and this is a mosque in the neighborhood, not across the street.What are you guys going to say when there is a Muslim prescence in the memorial, which I guarntee there will be if we trot out the old WTC cross to be part of the memorial.

 

[jon_mx]

Suppose, after the KKK did something horrible like a lynching, one third of the churches in this country spoke in favor of it? Suppose the other two-thirds of Christian churches stayed silent? Suppose a poll was taken among Christians around the world, and 70% of them approved of the KKK's actions? If that happened, Christianity would forever be linked with the KKK.

You can't dismiss 9/11 as "the actions of a few", because of the reaction by the Muslim world. Do you remember the cheering and celebration in places like Gaza and Iran?

The only effect the United States has had on the Middle East is that we made them a whole lot richer. We discovered their oil, we drilled it for them, and then allowed them nationalize most of the wealth that WE created. If not for us, that whole area would be the backwater that it was 100 years ago. And hopefully soon we'll uncover an alternative tp petroleum, and then it can become a backwater again. But in the meantime we don't need to humiliate ourselves by allowing them to spit in our faces with this mosque.

I'd be willing to wager that before JFK and Lyndon Johnson, before Civil Rights became the law of the land (when the KKK was actually doing a lot of the lynchings you are referring to), a minor but significant percentage of church leaders across the South and parts of the Midwest were speaking out in favor of it. Not 33%, but even 0.001% is too many. That said, how many churches at that time didn't speak out against it? Not speaking out in support of it, but not speaking out against it? Failing to take an outward stand and saying that what the KKK was doing was wrong, and most-certainly NOT following the teachings of Christianity?! I'm guessing maybe one-third.I remember seeing the TV footage in Gaza the afternoon of 9/11. People burning American flags, waving shoes in the air and firing off guns in celebration. My first reaction?! Wishing that Israel and/or the United States would drop a nuclear bomb on that area and turn everyone living there into sulfur. That said, months/years passed, and I simmered down...realizing that two wrongs do not make a right, and that killing more people will just lead to, guess what?! Another generation or two of killing, hatred and distrust.

One other thing: Your reference to them and our (bolded). Five million Americans self-identify as Muslim. So are you saying that five million Americans (or 3.5 million, AKA 70% of individuals) were dancing and celebrating in the streets when the planes struck the Twin Towers?! I could be wrong, but I'm guessing about 4.95 million or more of those individuals, those citizens, those AMERICANS might take extreme offense to your lumping "them" in with people in the Middle East.

People need to speak out against the racism and religious discrimination that is being exhibited by people who are all wrapped up in "them" and "us," when "them and us" is also "we." If you are a Christian, ask yourself one simple question related to this issue:

What would Jesus do?!

I'm guessing racism, intolerance, and hatred/hostility probably wouldn't be terribly high on the To Do List.

Do you really believe that having a mosque built at/near Ground Zero is going to decrease the level of tension between us and the Muslim world? It's going to make things worse, not better. It's a stupid idea, stupid for them to do it, and even stupider for us to allow it.

You didn't answer his question.

Jesus was very forgiving of lots of sin, but following the teachings of Muhammad would not be one of them. Jesus would not be supportive at all. Besides, characterizing the opposition as racist, intolerant, and hateful is a bunch of rhetorical bs which does nothing but make you look silly.

 

[Burton]

Can you answer his question? Are you religious?

My religion has nothing to do with it. Our reaction to this issue should be based on the interests of this country and not on religious beliefs. It is not in our interests to allow a Mosque so close to Ground Zero. It's an incredible insult to the 3,000 that died.

 

[badmojo1006]

Can you answer his question? Are you religious?

My religion has nothing to do with it. Our reaction to this issue should be based on the interests of this country and not on religious beliefs. It is not in our interests to allow a Mosque so close to Ground Zero. It's an incredible insult to the 3,000 that died.

Then the terrorists have won.And why did you just join yesterday? Who are you really?

 

[timschochet]

Can you answer his question? Are you religious?

My religion has nothing to do with it. Our reaction to this issue should be based on the interests of this country and not on religious beliefs. It is not in our interests to allow a Mosque so close to Ground Zero. It's an incredible insult to the 3,000 that died.

Then the terrorists have won.And why did you just join yesterday? Who are you really?

The terrorists WILL win if we don't allow this.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Can you answer his question? Are you religious?

My religion has nothing to do with it. Our reaction to this issue should be based on the interests of this country and not on religious beliefs. It is not in our interests to allow a Mosque so close to Ground Zero. It's an incredible insult to the 3,000 that died.

Then the terrorists have won.And why did you just join yesterday? Who are you really?

The terrorists WILL win if we don't allow this.

tim>what's going on here exactly?

 

[McJose]

Can you answer his question? Are you religious?

My religion has nothing to do with it. Our reaction to this issue should be based on the interests of this country and not on religious beliefs. It is not in our interests to allow a Mosque so close to Ground Zero. It's an incredible insult to the 3,000 that died.

Wait. Are you worried about an insult or our "interests"?

 

[the moops]

This thread is gold. I love you peens.

 

[datonn]

Do you really believe that having a mosque built at/near Ground Zero is going to decrease the level of tension between us and the Muslim world? It's going to make things worse, not better. It's a stupid idea, stupid for them to do it, and even stupider for us to allow it.

More with the us and them?Listen, REALLY listen. Al-Qaeda did the attacks on 9/11 for three reasons:

1. To instill a little fear in Joe Q. Lunchpail across the United States...who hasn't had to deal with a foreign attack/invasion/occupation on American soil in a long, long time.

2. To show the supporters of their more-radical, jihadist branch of Islam that the United States can be wounded. A la "if it bleeds, we can kill it."

3. MOST IMPORTANT. To provoke a swift, severe, and somewhat indiscriminate response against the Middle East and (indirectly) Islam that would all but necessarily draw more and more moderate Muslims into the conflict. In effect, creating the Holy War that Al-Qaeda and radical Islam wants.

So how did Al-Qaeda do?! #1? Check. #2? Check. #3? Jury is still out, but pretty close to "check." Al-Qaeda and other radical Islamist groups probably read the headlines about Joe Q. Lunchpail in America protesting mosques in NYC, Tennessee, Wisconsin, California, et al (a la The Daily Show) and are grinning ear to ear. I'm sure Osama Bin Laden doesn't care at all about a mosque a couple of blocks from Ground Zero. However, getting Joe Q. Lunchpail to make moderate Muslims, all Muslims, the focus of their ire is probably EXACTLY what he wants.

Get some nut-job to fire-bomb the new mosque in NYC, and you've got the fuel you need to recruit a few thousand more kids to your movement. And the conflict and killing continues. And Al-Qaeda wins. Heck, if some red-neck yahoo doesn't do it, it would probably be in Al-Qaeda's best interests to do it themselves (pinning it on some middle-aged, overweight, white guy)...then pipe-in the equivalent of "flag burning, waving shoes in the air and firing off guns in celebration" by the righties on televisions across the Middle East.

Think with your brain and not with your heart or "member" for five minutes...PLEASE!

 

[Smack Tripper]

Sometimes I wonder if liberals even understand what the crusades were. They throw it around as if it is something all Christians should be condemned about. Besides the fact it all started about 1000 years ago, it was really a response to Muslim aggression. What is now Israel was largely a Christian area. Christians built up many churches. But then in the 7th century, Muslims took it over. But what really got Christians upset was when the Muslims destroyed the Church which marked the spot of Jesus crucifixion and his grave. This lead to a lot of built up anger against Muslims, and eventually lead to the first crusades. This was a very brutal period in the history of mankind, and the Crusades were not exactly unjustified. Of course there were abuses, but it cut both ways. None of mankind could be too proud of how anyone behaved back then. It is pretty ignorant to just point to the Crusaders as the evil ones.

Point being, there has been a lot of blood spilt and a lot of wrongs done in the name of Christ. The issue is not what specific incident we cite, its the overriding theme, do you want to answer for everyone in your religion?

 

[the moops]

Jon Stewart's take

link

 

[McJose]

Jon Stewart's take

link

 

[BobbyLayne]

Jon Stewart's take

link

That S.O.B. almost made me get in an accident today (nearly rear ended a cabbie dropping off). As some of you may know, his studio is on 11th Ave (52nd St); around the corner is another well-known establishment. I cruising SB on 11th tonight, and there is a building size billboard of Jon Stewart, with these words:

Larry Flint's Hustler Club? Down one block, hang a right.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

tim>what's going on here exactly?

Seriously? Awesome!

 

[jon_mx]

CNN poll finds 68 percent of Americans oppose this....doesn't the left get tired of throwing around racism charges and blaming FoxNews on every issue. The left arguments are like a broken record.

 

[Claydon]

Freaking Muslims...as if we don't have enough Christians in this country already.

We have got to kill religion in the coming decades.

 

[ScottyFargo]

Sometimes I wonder if liberals even understand what the crusades were. They throw it around as if it is something all Christians should be condemned about. Besides the fact it all started about 1000 years ago, it was really a response to Muslim aggression. What is now Israel was largely a Christian area. Christians built up many churches. But then in the 7th century, Muslims took it over. But what really got Christians upset was when the Muslims destroyed the Church which marked the spot of Jesus crucifixion and his grave. This lead to a lot of built up anger against Muslims, and eventually lead to the first crusades. This was a very brutal period in the history of mankind, and the Crusades were not exactly unjustified. Of course there were abuses, but it cut both ways. None of mankind could be too proud of how anyone behaved back then. It is pretty ignorant to just point to the Crusaders as the evil ones.

This isn't why the First Crusade was called for.

I did not say it was. But it was important in that it drove Christians to resent Muslims. The first crusades were an opportunity to recapture taken land and to fight against abuses by Muslims.

Christians were driven to resent Muslims, but much of that rests on those who were pulling the strings and inciting the hatred to garner support for the Crusades, which was called for a combination of reasons, not the least of which was greed. C Warren Hollister:

The Crusades represented a fusion of three characteristic medieval impulses: piety, pugnacity, and greed. All three were essential. Without Christian idealism, the Crusades would be inconceivable, yet the dream of liberating Jerusalem and the Holy Land from the infidel and reopening them to Christian pilgrims was reinforced mightily by the lure of new lands and vast wealth.

...

Pope Urban II capitalized on the request of support from Emperor Alexius Comnenus against Seljuk Turks and amassed a large army to fulfill a completely unrelated plan. The Byzantine's didn't care to expand East and take over Jerusalem, but that's not what the Western Church cared about. It's the same formula that's been used time and again. 1. Garner support for a war by riling people up (God wills it!) 2. Go to war and take their stuff 3. Profit. Your point that it was heavily influenced by religious fervor only goes to show that contemporary hatred hasn't changed one iota from the foundation that had been used to invoke the Crusades. Right Wing Media is telling you to hate these Muslims, you have a reason to hate Islam already in 9/11, so you follow along without really thinking about what's going on here.

 

[MongoL3]

Sometimes I wonder if liberals even understand what the crusades were. They throw it around as if it is something all Christians should be condemned about. Besides the fact it all started about 1000 years ago, it was really a response to Muslim aggression. What is now Israel was largely a Christian area. Christians built up many churches. But then in the 7th century, Muslims took it over. But what really got Christians upset was when the Muslims destroyed the Church which marked the spot of Jesus crucifixion and his grave. This lead to a lot of built up anger against Muslims, and eventually lead to the first crusades. This was a very brutal period in the history of mankind, and the Crusades were not exactly unjustified. Of course there were abuses, but it cut both ways. None of mankind could be too proud of how anyone behaved back then. It is pretty ignorant to just point to the Crusaders as the evil ones.

This isn't why the First Crusade was called for.

I did not say it was. But it was important in that it drove Christians to resent Muslims. The first crusades were an opportunity to recapture taken land and to fight against abuses by Muslims.

Christians were driven to resent Muslims, but much of that rests on those who were pulling the strings and inciting the hatred to garner support for the Crusades, which was called for a combination of reasons, not the least of which was greed. C Warren Hollister:

The Crusades represented a fusion of three characteristic medieval impulses: piety, pugnacity, and greed. All three were essential. Without Christian idealism, the Crusades would be inconceivable, yet the dream of liberating Jerusalem and the Holy Land from the infidel and reopening them to Christian pilgrims was reinforced mightily by the lure of new lands and vast wealth.

...

Pope Urban II capitalized on the request of support from Emperor Alexius Comnenus against Seljuk Turks and amassed a large army to fulfill a completely unrelated plan. The Byzantine's didn't care to expand East and take over Jerusalem, but that's not what the Western Church cared about. It's the same formula that's been used time and again. 1. Garner support for a war by riling people up (God wills it!) 2. Go to war and take their stuff 3. Profit. Your point that it was heavily influenced by religious fervor only goes to show that contemporary hatred hasn't changed one iota from the foundation that had been used to invoke the Crusades. Right Wing Media is telling you to hate these Muslims, you have a reason to hate Islam already in 9/11, so you follow along without really thinking about what's going on here.

Well, its hard to dislike someone if they dont give you any reason.....

 

[KarmaPolice]

In all honesty, when you reward the religious followers with a mosque after they've committed the worst terrorist act in our nations history just a block away from where it all took place. You're kinda asking for trouble down the line. JMHO

Hopefully im wrong....

do you want to bejudged and accounted for by the actions of the few in the name of your religion? Are Christians still accountable the crusades?

a few??actions of a few?? few in terms of who was hijacking the plane but they have a pretty big following here and abroad, and the crusades is a little out of our time dont you think. 9/11 didnt happen 1000 years ago....

There are 1.5 billion muslims in the world. 23 attacked us on 9/11 and fewer than that have launched subsequent attacks. And 9/11 wasn't a 100 years ago, but it was 10, at what point do we start to let it go? Its enough already.

But in respect to this "pretty big following", what or who are you going after? Where does this flow down from? If your solution is to just go out and execute 1.5 billion people so that we might feel safe, I don't know what to tell you.

Christ, the majority of hijackers were from Saudi Arabia and we did nothing with that country, no sanctions, no strikes, nothing. This whole thing is a game, designed to push your buttons and rile you up over nonsense issues like this. Muslims have been a part of the NY community for years, and always will be. NY is condensed and compressed and this is a mosque in the neighborhood, not across the street.

What are you guys going to say when there is a Muslim prescence in the memorial, which I guarntee there will be if we trot out the old WTC cross to be part of the memorial.

I've tried that reasoning, it doesn't matter.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Jon Stewart's take

link

That had me laughing like hell and weeping for my country at the same time.

Cult? Koran burning ceremony? Saudi Arabia isn't putting up any churches? And a couple of these people are high up in our government.

 

[kface]

Jon Stewart's take

link

That had me laughing like hell and weeping for my country at the same time.

Cult? Koran burning ceremony? Saudi Arabia isn't putting up any churches? And a couple of these people are high up in our government.

A good portion of this country runs on fear. Fear of pretty much everything. Americans, in general, are afraid of their own shadow.

 

[KarmaPolice]

"Cordoba wants to transform the building into a glass tower with a swimming pool, basketball court, auditorium and culinary school besides the mosque. The center, called Park51, also would have a library, art studios and meditation rooms. "

Aren't they also setting up a panel/board of people to oversee the center and mosque made up of people of different faiths? What are people afraid of here exactly?

 

[pantagrapher]

CNN poll finds 68 percent of Americans oppose this....doesn't the left get tired of throwing around racism charges and blaming FoxNews on every issue. The left arguments are like a broken record.

Poll results like this happen when people are thoroughly misinformed.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Jon Stewart's take

link

That had me laughing like hell and weeping for my country at the same time.

Cult? Koran burning ceremony? Saudi Arabia isn't putting up any churches? And a couple of these people are high up in our government.

A good portion of this country runs on fear. Fear of pretty much everything. Americans, in general, are afraid of their own shadow.

Good point, and this shouldn't surprise me. It's easier to be afraid of everything and lump everybody into one category, I guess.

 

[KarmaPolice]

CNN poll finds 68 percent of Americans oppose this....doesn't the left get tired of throwing around racism charges and blaming FoxNews on every issue. The left arguments are like a broken record.

Poll results like this happen when people are thoroughly misinformed.

It is interesting that the number drops as you get closer to NYC too. How much of this should be left in the hands of NYC? Would people care what the rest of the country thinks if you were debating something like this in your hometown?

 

[MongoL3]

CNN poll finds 68 percent of Americans oppose this....doesn't the left get tired of throwing around racism charges and blaming FoxNews on every issue. The left arguments are like a broken record.

Poll results like this happen when people are thoroughly misinformed.

It is interesting that the number drops as you get closer to NYC too. How much of this should be left in the hands of NYC? Would people care what the rest of the country thinks if you were debating something like this in your hometown?

I dont think it matters how people vote anymore, we can just let a muslim judge decide on this.....

 

[urbanhack]

I'm hearing an awful lot of hate on talk radio.

big surprise.

 

[GrandpaRox]

I'm hearing an awful lot of hate on talk radio.

big surprise.

Yes I do believe MSNBC is very hateful and lies at every turn, thank God very few but the far left maniacs listen to them.,

 

[jamny]

Someone gets it.

Yes, thanks. Stat already linked her opinion piece from a Toronto newspaper.Always love to hear from the conservative muslims living in Cananda.

Do these peoples opinion count?

Founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy Zuhdi Jasser reacted to the prospect: “For us, a mosque was always a place to pray, to be together on holidays-not a way to make an ostentatious architectural statement. Ground zero shouldn’t be about promoting Islam. It’s the place where war was declared on us Americans.”

Stephen Suleyman Schwartz, director of the Center for Islamic Pluralism, asserted, “Building a 15-story Islamic center at ground zero isn’t something a Sufi (spiritually wise Muslim) would do. Sufism is supposed to be based on sensitivity toward others,” as opposed to the imposition of a Muslim mosque in an area where Americans were attacked by radical Muslims, a prospect that Schwartz calls “grossly insensitive”.

With so much retail space available in NYC, why do you suppose they chose this spot to build a mosque?

 

[KarmaPolice]

CNN poll finds 68 percent of Americans oppose this....doesn't the left get tired of throwing around racism charges and blaming FoxNews on every issue. The left arguments are like a broken record.

Poll results like this happen when people are thoroughly misinformed.

It is interesting that the number drops as you get closer to NYC too. How much of this should be left in the hands of NYC? Would people care what the rest of the country thinks if you were debating something like this in your hometown?

I dont think it matters how people vote anymore, we can just let a muslim judge decide on this.....

Good god, man.

Seriously, if the situation was reversed, or something like this was going on in your town would you care much about what people in Georgia or Seattle have to say about it?

 

[pantagrapher]

Someone gets it.

Yes, thanks. Stat already linked her opinion piece from a Toronto newspaper.Always love to hear from the conservative muslims living in Cananda.

Do these peoples opinion count?

Founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy Zuhdi Jasser reacted to the prospect: “For us, a mosque was always a place to pray, to be together on holidays-not a way to make an ostentatious architectural statement. Ground zero shouldn’t be about promoting Islam. It’s the place where war was declared on us Americans.”

Stephen Suleyman Schwartz, director of the Center for Islamic Pluralism, asserted, “Building a 15-story Islamic center at ground zero isn’t something a Sufi (spiritually wise Muslim) would do. Sufism is supposed to be based on sensitivity toward others,” as opposed to the imposition of a Muslim mosque in an area where Americans were attacked by radical Muslims, a prospect that Schwartz calls “grossly insensitive”.

With so much retail space available in NYC, why do you suppose they chose this spot to build a mosque?

More on ZuhdiFor his part, Schwartz created the Center for Islamic Pluralism. It's not like some long-standing organization.

 

[the moops]

With so much retail space available in NYC, why do you suppose they chose this spot to build a mosque?

Did you watch the Daily Show clip?It doesn't matter if the mosque is built elsewhere in NY, or in Wisconsin, or in California. People protest mosques being built anywhere.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Someone gets it.

Yes, thanks. Stat already linked her opinion piece from a Toronto newspaper.Always love to hear from the conservative muslims living in Cananda.

Do these peoples opinion count?

Founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy Zuhdi Jasser reacted to the prospect: “For us, a mosque was always a place to pray, to be together on holidays-not a way to make an ostentatious architectural statement. Ground zero shouldn’t be about promoting Islam. It’s the place where war was declared on us Americans.”

Stephen Suleyman Schwartz, director of the Center for Islamic Pluralism, asserted, “Building a 15-story Islamic center at ground zero isn’t something a Sufi (spiritually wise Muslim) would do. Sufism is supposed to be based on sensitivity toward others,” as opposed to the imposition of a Muslim mosque in an area where Americans were attacked by radical Muslims, a prospect that Schwartz calls “grossly insensitive”.

With so much retail space available in NYC, why do you suppose they chose this spot to build a mosque?

More on Zuhdi

For his part, Schwartz created the Center for Islamic Pluralism. It's not like some long-standing organization.

Congrats, Jamny.

I don't think Maddow could have found two less credible sources.

 

[Knocks]

Asra Q. Nomani

Heard her on the radio this morning on my drive to work. Intresting and seems she is well versed / educated. Apparently a co-worker/friend of Daniel Pearl. Actually rented him the home he was kidnapped from and as we all know later murdered.

Briefly her take is there is already a mosque 5 blks from ground zero espousing jihad against america....

Unfortuanetly now the focus is on this one being proposed/built.

More from her The Mosque in Morgantown

Edit to add: Have not read the entire thread, sorry if Honda.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

This thread is gold. I love you peens.

He pushes the bigotry just far enough to look like your typical hick but not quite far enough to get hit with the ban hammer. Very impressive.