My impending Italian Ex-Pat adventure....2023 Version 2.01 (1 Viewer)

[zoobird]

Do either of you have parents who are still alive?

Also, how sociable are you and your wife? Interested both in terms of whether your existing friends/family were a reason not to go that you had to overcome and in terms of how quickly you're likely to get to know people once you move.

 

[ChiefD]

So what does that mean when they say portion of a farmhouse? Are you only purchasing half of it or something? Kind of like a townhouse?

 

[Chemical X]

we negotiated in all furnishings. start with some stuff and work our way to refurnishing.

so, with covid hitting 2020 and our dog getting sick thereafter, plans changed. the last time we were in italy was that 5/2019 trip. our apartment has been empty and untouched, except for 2021 when my realtor let my HVAC guy in to install a digital thermostat. we pretty much said we’d let our dog live his best life and start to look again once he goes…..so, after that we began a planning a return trip for 3 weeks in May to looks for property, hitting florence and rome too. we started to make a list of properties and ran across what we felt was a too good to be true property. my wife set up a virtual tour with the agent. when we saw it, we knew…….we told the agent we would talk prices and see if the seller will agree to a price with us, if they do verbally, we’d get on a plane and look in person and decide if go forward with paperwork. we saw the property friday and made return trips saturday evening and sunday afternoon to walk the village, see the views, listen to night noise. we met the agent today at our place today, told him we are going forward and to put our current place on the market.

here’s the flyer…..

Characteristic portion of a farmhouse with garden

A few minutes from the center of Allerona, we offer for sale a portion of a farmhouse of 186 square meters divided as follows: ground floor with a very elegant porch that precedes the entrance, a kitchen equipped with all comforts, a bathroom and a closet. The first floor is accessed by both an...

www.engelvoelkers.com

House looks amazing and peaceful.

They are really selling those two chaise lounges, like 4 pics of them.

Bunch of questions, @Chemical X

Do either of you speak the language? Think you're an Eagles fan, so I figure about 60% chance your name ends in a vowel, but I didn't know if y'all had any connection to Italy.

Retiring there, what is Italy's stance? You have money, you want to buy here, help yourself, or is it a lot more complicated?

Were you pretty set on this area where you wound up?

1) yes - we have been learning hard and now would consider ourselves intermediate to upper intermediate. my wife is a study nut, i am not, so she is a little ahead of me….that said i was able to go to the pharmacy yesterday morning and buy hemorrhoid cream and a cycle of bactrim speaking all italian….we have passed an A2 language exam as well. i am a jet fan and enjoy bagels and challah bread. no connection here outside of vacations where we fell in love with the east way of living and pace of life. we have limited ties to the states, actually, i have none.

2) so, we bought a property here 10 years ago. was really no problem, but if you want to live and retire here, you need the proper visa and proof of financial support. it’s complicated to explain, but i will do so shortly after this post if you are interested.

3) we like our current area in and around lake trasimeno, but the area is dying a bit. i don’t like east of the lake, spello, todi, gubbio. bleccch. this side of the lake has great access to the A1 and trains to and from rome and florence, so we wanted this general area…….but that means traveling 1 hour or so, since the roads are meh. we never specifically said orvieto, but it checks a lot of my boxes. bigger city, but not rome sized, outside the city, but not 45 minutes. quiet, but not isolated. near a major airport. train access.

 

[Chemical X]

Do either of you have parents who are still alive?

Also, how sociable are you and your wife? Interested both in terms of whether your existing friends/family were a reason not to go that you had to overcome and in terms of how quickly you're likely to get to know people once you move.

i will answer you and @ChiefD when we return from our aperitivo. it’s 5:30 here and time to eat again apparently.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

When will you be welcoming guests? 😂😂😂

 

[Osaurus]

Do they have Taco Bell there?

 

[Chemical X]

When will you be welcoming guests? 😂😂😂

if i am there, anytime….but i’m gonna need a real name. can’t tell the neighbors in italy that this is da raiders, from the board…..heck, can’t tell my wife that either. seems we will have plenty of space.

 

[Chemical X]

Do they have Taco Bell there?

Do they have Taco Bell there?

this is as good as i have found…..

Hamburgers, carni alla griglia - Menu

Scopri il nostro menu. Hamburgere, carni alla griglia, tex mex, vegetariani, insalatone e molto altro.

www.oldwildwest.it

 

[FatMax]

 

[Van Dyman]

Maybe we can table all that nonsense and get to the thing that really matters, eh?


Is there a bidet?

 

[Chemical X]

Maybe we can table all that nonsense and get to the thing that really matters, eh?


Is there a bidet?

3….but we removed the one in our current place and replaced it with a storage cabinet.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

When will you be welcoming guests? 😂😂😂

if i am there, anytime….but i’m gonna need a real name. can’t tell the neighbors in italy that this is da raiders, from the board…..heck, can’t tell my wife that either. seems we will have plenty of space.

“This is lady raiders. She grew up in Greensboro” 😂

 

[Chemical X]

Do either of you have parents who are still alive?

Also, how sociable are you and your wife? Interested both in terms of whether your existing friends/family were a reason not to go that you had to overcome and in terms of how quickly you're likely to get to know people once you move.

both my parents are long gone, wife has dad who is 89 this year. we are not very sociable. we didn’t have kids and are not religious, which are the main ways people tend to meet IMO. we don’t have much in common with lots of folks, so we tend to keep to ourselves. i have no family at all. my wife is close to one sister and somewhat close to her brother, both in ny. she said that we won’t be able to hop flights and visit like we do now, so she needs to know they will visit, maybe 1x year. they seem in. we are gonna check out the expat community here, but that’s not something we really crave, we want to be in italy, not little usa. we expect to meet people at markets and bars and around town as we strike up conversations.

 

[Chemical X]

When will you be welcoming guests? 😂😂😂

if i am there, anytime….but i’m gonna need a real name. can’t tell the neighbors in italy that this is da raiders, from the board…..heck, can’t tell my wife that either. seems we will have plenty of space.

“This is lady raiders. She grew up in Greensboro” 😂

well greensboro is near raleigh, so we can have a common subject to discuss.

 

[Chemical X]

So what does that mean when they say portion of a farmhouse? Are you only purchasing half of it or something? Kind of like a townhouse?

so, if you look at the photos, number 1 is what we are buying it is in the middle and everything to the right as you look at it. picture 2 shows the whole structure. it’s a 3 family structure…..house 1 is the white portion and house 2 is in between mine and the white, but we have nothing common, not a condo or townhouse per se. it’s what they do here. it’s called an independent portion of a farmhouse. every out building is mine as shown on the plat.

current owner has the neighbors watch his property when he is not around and he allows them to use a portion behind an outbuilding as a hen house. fresh eggs are on the menu for visitors.

 

[Chemical X]

i should also mention i am selling my current place here too, for any of you dreamers. it is <150k, more than affordable for the infinite 6 figure fbgers. if interested, pm me for teh boards discount code.

 

[massraider]

Rough idea on cost of living differences between here and there?

 

[ChiefD]

So what does that mean when they say portion of a farmhouse? Are you only purchasing half of it or something? Kind of like a townhouse?

so, if you look at the photos, number 1 is what we are buying it is in the middle and everything to the right as you look at it. picture 2 shows the whole structure. it’s a 3 family structure…..house 1 is the white portion and house 2 is in between mine and the white, but we have nothing common, not a condo or townhouse per se. it’s what they do here. it’s called an independent portion of a farmhouse. every out building is mine as shown on the plat.

current owner has the neighbors watch his property when he is not around and he allows them to use a portion behind an outbuilding as a hen house. fresh eggs are on the menu for visitors.

Gotcha - makes much more sense now. That place is incredible.

 

[Chemical X]

So what does that mean when they say portion of a farmhouse? Are you only purchasing half of it or something? Kind of like a townhouse?

so, if you look at the photos, number 1 is what we are buying it is in the middle and everything to the right as you look at it. picture 2 shows the whole structure. it’s a 3 family structure…..house 1 is the white portion and house 2 is in between mine and the white, but we have nothing common, not a condo or townhouse per se. it’s what they do here. it’s called an independent portion of a farmhouse. every out building is mine as shown on the plat.

current owner has the neighbors watch his property when he is not around and he allows them to use a portion behind an outbuilding as a hen house. fresh eggs are on the menu for visitors.

Gotcha - makes much more sense now. That place is incredible.

so the owners are german, bought it 40 years ago and renovated. the owner came out this weekend to meet us and answer questions. had this great moustache and kept saying yah yah. so, if you see the kitchen….he told us when they bought it was a cow stable. just a stone storage area and unfinished. they hired a contractor and he developed and finished the entire level into a kitchen. that floor also has a .5 bath and laundry/pantry room at the entry door. they also installed the wooden staircase to the second level……he said the second level has stairs on the outside that access and the kitchen was originally on that floor somehow. honestly, i think the price is low here for what i’ve seen in the past. it’s honestly a bit more than we wanted to spend, but have rationalized that we are selling this current place, so it’s kind of a wash.

 

[Scoresman]

Following this thread as my wife and I are planning to move to Europe in 8-10 years. Our way of life and values really fit a European lifestyle. And we're just about done with this country.

Our primary concerns are obviously health care, especially for ex-pats, economic stability, etc. We also want to be centrally located since train travel across Europe will be something we do often. Italy is near the top of our list for this reason.

Question for you. It seems like you're not in a big city. One of the things we don't want to sacrifice are certain conveniences of living in or near urban centers. Small things that add up like how long an order from Amazon arrives, how fast the internet is, or how durable the plumbing/utilities are. I know some of those villages are old. Was there an adjustment in this regard for you guys?

 

[Chemical X]

Rough idea on cost of living differences between here and there?

great question and thanks for asking!
(fyi, i am being sarcastic….i hate that saying).

things are cheaper here, but right now 1.08$-1.00€. but check this, at home in u.s., my wife and i run out for 2 coffees and a muffin to split at a local non sbux spot and spend around $12. here, we went out and had the same and it was $4. we went to a local bar, which is more like a small grab and go cafe that has food, coffee, spirits….we got 3 aperol spritz, 3 square slices of pizza with toppings, 2 small crossandwiches, 2 coffees, 2 biscotti and 2 cookies, bottle of water and can of coke zero for $32 somehow. plus, no tipping expected, though i always round up, so i left $3. i was told insurance on the property is $500 annually and real estate taxes are $900.

 

[Chemical X]

Following this thread as my wife and I are planning to move to Europe in 8-10 years. Our way of life and values really fit a European lifestyle. And we're just about done with this country.

Our primary concerns are obviously health care, especially for ex-pats, economic stability, etc. We also want to be centrally located since train travel across Europe will be something we do often. Italy is near the top of our list for this reason.

Question for you. It seems like you're not in a big city. One of the things we don't want to sacrifice are certain conveniences of living in or near urban centers. Small things that add up like how long an order from Amazon arrives, how fast the internet is, or how durable the plumbing/utilities are. I know some of those villages are old. Was there an adjustment in this regard for you guys?

the adjustment is to check your americanism at the door. meaning, europe ain’t the states and if you want to have the states in europe than don’t come. when we bought this place it was for vacation only. 2 weeks at a time, 2-3x a year. i wanted access to trains, highway and a location where i could hit cool places like perugia, montepulciano, assisi, siena, orvieto, but close enough to rome-florence. i am exactly 2 hours from FCO. what we do now is rent a wifi key at the airport for our trips and i don’t have to pay year round. the main thing is getting yourself close enough to a village with services. i broke it down to huge cities like rome, florence, milan, then smaller main cities like orvieto, siena, perugia, then even smaller comunes like castiglione del lago, todi, gubbio for instance. each of these locations has their own suburbs, so to speak. my town is pozzuolo, 10 minutes outside CDL. i am lucky to be 1 minutes from pozzuolo, which has 1 post office, bank atm, pharmacy, 2 bars, 1 tobacco guy, hardware store, mini supermarket and bakery. big things i go to CDL.

to continue, my advise is to be near a smaller main city and i am pretty lucky in that regard. orvieto is only a 15 minute drive on normal roads. orvieto scalo has essentially everything. my little village will have enough for daily life, but big ticket items are as close to me as the u.s….. properties are old, so you want charm but it has to be modern to support living. i asked the owner about amazon and he said it was easy and quick and we saw several vans around town. if you are in the boondocks, forget it, all bets are off. heck, i get nauseous on 1/2 the rides here going up and s curving every friggin mountain and hill.

 

[zoobird]

Any concerns on your wife's part about being so far from her father and unable to visit often?

Curious about this because proximity to aging parents (some of whom will likely need us involved as caretakers at some point) is one of the main things keeping my wife and I from considering moves more than a few hours from NY/NJ.

 

[Chemical X]

Any concerns on your wife's part about being so far from her father and unable to visit often?

Curious about this because proximity to aging parents (some of whom will likely need us involved as caretakers at some point) is one of the main things keeping my wife and I from considering moves more than a few hours from NY/NJ.

so, i actually bought my FIL a facebook portal from amazon for <$50. we set up a dummy facebook account for him and added like 3 friends, his 2 daughters and my wife’s 1/2 brother. so, we can video call and it actually works thru messenger. my SIL is in ny, 10 mins away, she handles meds and look ins.
my FIL is a scoundrel and my wife cares about him, but he isn’t the father of the year. she has tried the talk with him about living and down the line stuff and he wants to be left alone, where he is…..so be it. we know a long flight for final plans will be down the line, but at some point you make the decision you feel is best for you and live with that choice. imo there can always be a reason not to go family wise, but video calls and messaging apps help.
we can always hop a flight i figure.

 

[Chemical X]

i would love a gambling thread where odds are posted of first fbg to meet me in italy at my place.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

That’s a really nice looking place! Friends of my family Re did a place on mallorca in the 80’s and then did another one in st antonin, fra. Having a place ready to go is awesome. it was a TON of work. Good for you!

 

[Chemical X]

Following this thread as my wife and I are planning to move to Europe in 8-10 years. Our way of life and values really fit a European lifestyle. And we're just about done with this country.

Our primary concerns are obviously health care, especially for ex-pats, economic stability, etc. We also want to be centrally located since train travel across Europe will be something we do often. Italy is near the top of our list for this reason.

Question for you. It seems like you're not in a big city. One of the things we don't want to sacrifice are certain conveniences of living in or near urban centers. Small things that add up like how long an order from Amazon arrives, how fast the internet is, or how durable the plumbing/utilities are. I know some of those villages are old. Was there an adjustment in this regard for you guys?

i should also mention that health care is a main thing for us too. italy allows foreigners with a residence permit entry into its medical plan. the plan is annual, a calendar year. based on your income you pay the sanitary office a fee, say $200- for the year and you then have public coverage for everything, my understanding. you can supplement with private coverage. the pharmacy seems to give you most anything without a prescription. case in point, i of course got an ear infection on the flight over here and knowing how i felt, figured my usual medication would work to clear it. i didn’t have enough pills…….i went to the farmacia and explained in italian my situation and what my doctor usually gives me…….pharmacist said ah, bactrim, goes to back and brings me a 16 pill dose box for $8…..wa la, infection gone. my wife says that my prescription is $0 in the states after i go to the my doctor, so it isn’t a deal, but i say i didn’t have to pay $30 to see my doctor.

 

[Chemical X]

That’s a really nice looking place! Friends of my family Re did a place on mallorca in the 80’s and then did another one in st antonin, fra. Having a place ready to go is awesome. it was a TON of work. Good for you!

a ton of work in another country is brutal. mallorca is gorgeous. i am a valencia fan too.

fyi, i expect visitors to work, so be ready to prune trees or clean and pluck the chickens.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

That’s a really nice looking place! Friends of my family Re did a place on mallorca in the 80’s and then did another one in st antonin, fra. Having a place ready to go is awesome. it was a TON of work. Good for you!

a ton of work in another country is brutal. mallorca is gorgeous. i am a valencia fan too.

fyi, i expect visitors to work, so be ready to prune trees or clean and pluck the chickens.

100%. We mucked out an old irrigation pool for them. Horrible back breaking work. They then turned it into a dipping pool. So awesome. The house was in Soller.

 

[massraider]

i would love a gambling thread where odds are posted of first fbg to meet me in italy at my place.

$50 on me

fyi, i expect visitors to work, so be ready to prune trees or clean and pluck the chickens.

$5000 on the field

 

[Jaysus]

Hi Ecks! What is the closest Serie A team? Are you going to check them out?

 

[Chemical X]

Hi Ecks! What is the closest Serie A team? Are you going to check them out?

umbria and tuscany don’t do serie a much…..
closest a to me would be roma or lazio.
serie b has ternana….about 1 hour away. my juventus up in torino is an overnight trip.
fiorentina is in florence and about 2 hours by train.

 

[FatMax]

Maybe I'm just used to expensive California real estate, but that price seems like a steal to me. That home here would be 3X that amount, probably more. I don't have a lot to add, but this thread is seriously interesting to me. Thanks for posting about your adventure.

 

[AAABatteries]

What are your thoughts on Campari?

 

[New Binky the Doormat]

just don't pick Tuscany, there's nothing left to buy or rent in Tuscany.

 

[Chemical X]

Maybe I'm just used to expensive California real estate, but that price seems like a steal to me. That home here would be 3X that amount, probably more. I don't have a lot to add, but this thread is seriously interesting to me. Thanks for posting about your adventure.

i know…..we came here in 2019 and looked at 49 houses, we found only 1 we thought about making an offer on and found out the second floor was sinking a bit due to settling, leaving a 1-2 crack all around the wall bottom. also, the property got stream water from a pump house located on the neighbor’s property. i said what happens if they hate americans and turn off the pump?

every house had a nickname;
bee house
wasp house
death house
nutella house
house of cats
mold house
gin and tonic
doll house
guggenhouse

 

[Chemical X]

What are your thoughts on Campari?

i’m still bitter……..negroni si, but aperol is more drinkable.

 

[Chemical X]

spoke to our immigration attorney yesterday about visas……some interesting info i will post later. right now it’s market day in castiglione del lago and i’m itching for a €3 porchetta sandwich from a truck! maybe some fruits and nuts too.

 

[Chemical X]

so, our original thought was to do an ERV, retirement visa, but then we can’t work anywhere. my wife’s work is international, 75% APAC, EMEA and her employer has said that they are ok with her working abroad…..so, we are pursuing what is called an ICT, intracompany xfer. essentially, her company needs to have an office in italy that will accept her as a loaner. if the mothership says yes, then they will go along. she will continue to be paid by and in the u.s. the italian branch needs to file for a work permit for her, called a nulla osta. after the NO, she gets a visa and the. goes to italy, where she has 8 days to file papers to be a resident. i thought i could do a visa simultaneously, but i can’t…….after she gets her residency, she can then apply for a NO family reunification for me, then i get my visa and do what she did. i can travel with her while she does her visa things, but i will just be in the 90/180 rule.

 

[Chemical X]

pretty happy with our lawyer here. property checks are clear and we are ready to sign the prelim contract. sadly, i need to pay the agent 4% and then 22% vat tax. both sides pay in italy. we asked for 3% and they told me to pound sand, but will give me 3% for the sale of my current place.

 

[massraider]

22% vat tax

Oh my goodness

 

[Chemical X]

contract has been signed by both sides and my deposit went out today. wife’s company is actively helping her with a transfer. seems i will own the property by the time i return in may, which is the goal.

 

[Chemical X]

i think this works…..video of the property.

W-02Q8JQ interni

www.youtube.com

 

[ChiefD]

i think this works…..video of the property.

W-02Q8JQ interni

www.youtube.com

Love the porn music.

 

[New Binky the Doormat]

i think this works…..video of the property.

W-02Q8JQ interni

www.youtube.com

f'n sweet man - maybe you mentioned before ...but how much is it (and then the VAT)

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I’m so visiting!

 

[Drunken knight]

Fantastic info....

Thinking about Bolzano (and area), Guarda, Maggiore.

@DA RAIDERS check out the resorts within a 3 hr drive/train ride.

Eta: love the property you selected. Coming from Northern California, amazing value

 

[FatMax]

i think this works…..video of the property.

W-02Q8JQ interni

www.youtube.com

Very cool. I think that sunken range might drive me crazy though

 

[gianmarco]

i think this works…..video of the property.

W-02Q8JQ interni

www.youtube.com

Very cool. I think that sunken range might drive me crazy though

Well, it wasn't going to, but now....

 

[Beef Ravioli Part 2]

i think this works…..video of the property.

W-02Q8JQ interni

www.youtube.com

I saw at least two bidet’s! Report back please!