My Top 10 QB Risers and Fallers (1 Viewer)

[Cecil Lammey]

http://nfldraftguys.com/features/top_ten_Q...and_fallers.php

enjoy!

My 1st mock draft should debut tonight!

 

[NYCGangGreen]

Few hours and no comments?

I like the read, I'm still amazed that with all the negative talk of Woodson, he is still the #6, I guess there is a big dropoff from him on if he still stays at the 6 spot.

A lot I have read on Flacco seems to have him getting higher and higher in the projections. I guess we will see in a couple of weeks just how this all works out.

But good work Cecil!

 

[vandyt]

I'm surprised Ainge is in the top 10. I always thought he had the talent, but he never showed it on the field. I doubt we'll see him on an NFL roster come this fall.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

I'm surprised Ainge is in the top 10. I always thought he had the talent, but he never showed it on the field. I doubt we'll see him on an NFL roster come this fall.

He's consistent in his inconsistency! Some people have him graded as a 4th round pick. Some team will take a 2nd day chance on him.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

Few hours and no comments? I like the read, I'm still amazed that with all the negative talk of Woodson, he is still the #6, I guess there is a big dropoff from him on if he still stays at the 6 spot.A lot I have read on Flacco seems to have him getting higher and higher in the projections. I guess we will see in a couple of weeks just how this all works out.But good work Cecil!

Thanks man!Flacco has to be the biggest mystery of the top QBs. Size? check. Rifle arm? check. How could this kid not beat out Tyler Palko?? And the comment about taking a million sacks is somewhat bothersome. Protect him and you've got something. Flacco flushed from the pocket =

 

[Chaos Commish]

Thanks Cecil.

Comments and questions:

I'm trying to get up to speed on Flacco. Some of what I've seen gives me a real good vibe. Some makes me feel like that scout you quote. I have him lower.

I'm a little shocked by the love Josh Johnson is getting. He played against midgets for Pete's sake. I know quite a bit about him going back to the Harbaugh days, and I figured I had him higher than anyone. I have him lower than you and Sig.

Nice to see Dennis Dixon holding steady at 7. I remember posting here early in the season that he was playing at a higher level than any QB in the country, and that had nothing to do with his running ability. He came down to reality a bit before the injury, but he is very underrated now because of it. I have him higher.

I'm not much for Booty (haha). I could see him never take a snap, or trudge his way into a long term backup role. If ever asked to be a starter, I think his time in the limelight would be short lived. I have him lower.

I think it's important to try and find players who could be great. Because anything else really has no chance of ever playing. QB is a monster at the next level. A good ship's captain like Booty will be swamped in the bigger seas.

Now a kid like Brennan just might find his way. In the right system he could make it. I can't picture a system where Booty thrives. Booty lower, Brennan in the top 10, even if it's just the last slot. Where do you have him?

We have the same top ten if we exchange those two.

I'm guessing 14 QBs get drafted this year. Just a little more than usual. Lots of needy teams. I'd like to see a top 15. I'm sure we have a few different names on the bottom.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

Thanks Cecil.Comments and questions:I'm trying to get up to speed on Flacco. Some of what I've seen gives me a real good vibe. Some makes me feel like that scout you quote. I have him lower.I'm a little shocked by the love Josh Johnson is getting. He played against midgets for Pete's sake. I know quite a bit about him going back to the Harbaugh days, and I figured I had him higher than anyone. I have him lower than you and Sig. Nice to see Dennis Dixon holding steady at 7. I remember posting here early in the season that he was playing at a higher level than any QB in the country, and that had nothing to do with his running ability. He came down to reality a bit before the injury, but he is very underrated now because of it. I have him higher.I'm not much for Booty (haha). I could see him never take a snap, or trudge his way into a long term backup role. If ever asked to be a starter, I think his time in the limelight would be short lived. I have him lower. I think it's important to try and find players who could be great. Because anything else really has no chance of ever playing. QB is a monster at the next level. A good ship's captain like Booty will be swamped in the bigger seas. Now a kid like Brennan just might find his way. In the right system he could make it. I can't picture a system where Booty thrives. Booty lower, Brennan in the top 10, even if it's just the last slot. Where do you have him?We have the same top ten if we exchange those two. I'm guessing 14 QBs get drafted this year. Just a little more than usual. Lots of needy teams. I'd like to see a top 15. I'm sure we have a few different names on the bottom.

thanks for the reply CC!It's the cerebral nature of Josh Johnson that makes me go crazy for him. You know the Jim Harbaugh quote: "If there was an SAT for football, Josh Johnson would crush it!"He is one helluva athlete, but he doesn't look to run first. He is a project, but he has the tools, he just needs some time. I agree with you on the need to find the great QBs. I feel Josh Johnson could be a great one. He was the most impressive QB that I saw on our road trip to the Shrine, Senior, & TX v Nation Bowls. I would have LOVED to seen him compete in Mobile (he was there in the stands and we chatted for a few minutes). I talked to all the QBs in Mobile, and Henne seemed sharp!Brennan is just outside my top 10, after having him ranked 14th initially. The rapid weight gain is a bit of a concern, but this kid knows how to win.Confidence is the big key with Brennan. He's had a taste of the big time (vGA & Senior Bowl) so he now knows what level he'll have to play at if he ever wants to see the field. If he goes to the right system, and if he can feel comfortable taking the ball from center, then he could have a shot.

 

[JKL]

A few questions:

You have Ryan as the first quarterback. Do you think he is first overall pick caliber?

How many of the quarterbacks you have listed do you think should be taken by the early to middle part of the second round?

Do you have the official combine heights on the various quarterbacks?

 

[FavreCo]

Few hours and no comments?

I like the read, I'm still amazed that with all the negative talk of Woodson, he is still the #6, I guess there is a big dropoff from him on if he still stays at the 6 spot.

A lot I have read on Flacco seems to have him getting higher and higher in the projections. I guess we will see in a couple of weeks just how this all works out.

But good work Cecil!

Thanks man!Flacco has to be the biggest mystery of the top QBs. Size? check. Rifle arm? check. How could this kid not beat out Tyler Palko?? And the comment about taking a million sacks is somewhat bothersome. Protect him and you've got something. Flacco flushed from the pocket =

Looks adequate to me if not more.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

A few questions:You have Ryan as the first quarterback. Do you think he is first overall pick caliber?

I don't believe that Ryan is worthy of the #1 overall pick. He is talented, but does not measure up to some of the QBs drafted in recent years.

How many of the quarterbacks you have listed do you think should be taken by the early to middle part of the second round?

The top 3 (Ryan, Brohm, Henne) should be gone by the middle 2nd round. Josh Johnson could get himself into the end of the first day with a good pro day. As a project that is the highest he could be drafted. Hey, if TJax was drafted by the Vikings in the 2nd, there's no reason to think that JJ couldn't be drafted there as well.

Do you have the official combine heights on the various quarterbacks?

Official weights of my top 10:1. Matt Ryan - 6'4" 2282. Brian Brohm - 6'2" 230 3. Chad Henne - 6'2" 2304. Josh Johnson - 6'2" 2135. Joe Flacco - 6'6" 2306. Andre Woodson - 6'4" 2297. Dennis Dixon - 6'3" 1958. JD Booty - 6'2" 2189. Erik Ainge - 6'5" 22510. Kevin O'Connell - 6'5" 225

 

[Cecil Lammey]

Few hours and no comments?

I like the read, I'm still amazed that with all the negative talk of Woodson, he is still the #6, I guess there is a big dropoff from him on if he still stays at the 6 spot.

A lot I have read on Flacco seems to have him getting higher and higher in the projections. I guess we will see in a couple of weeks just how this all works out.

But good work Cecil!

Thanks man!Flacco has to be the biggest mystery of the top QBs. Size? check. Rifle arm? check. How could this kid not beat out Tyler Palko?? And the comment about taking a million sacks is somewhat bothersome. Protect him and you've got something. Flacco flushed from the pocket =

Looks adequate to me if not more.

One rollout looked nice, he opened up his shoulders and threw to the receiver in stride. He worked primarily out of the shotgun which automatically gives him a cushion from the defense. during the course of a game the defense knows the way to get to Flacco is to make him move. I have that App State game on tape and the final score was 49-21

Flacco's stat line:

23-48-334 1TD

7-(-1) rushing

It was 28-7 at halftime, and Flacco was in trouble because the D just pinned their ears back and went after him. Yes, he put up a lot of yards - in a blowout loss, not entirely uncommon. Less than 50% passing was due in large part to the pressure that App State got on him.

3rd and 4th down conversion for the game was 8-20.

can he make a play on the run? sure, from time to time. But during the course of a game, how do you beat Flacco? Flush him from the pocket.

 

[ditka85]

I've read the criticism on Flacco regarding taking all of those sacks. How was his O-line? Did he hold onto the ball trying to make big plays or was the defense in his face instantly? I don't have a problem with guys taking sacks if that means he's not trying to force a pass into coverage.

ETA: saw the video posted above along with a few others. Flacco does have some form of pocket presence. He made some nice adjustments with pressure in his face. Granted, these are highlight reels, so I'll take them with a grain of salt. But I was impressed none the less. Certainly has potential.

 

[LTsharks]

Few hours and no comments? I like the read, I'm still amazed that with all the negative talk of Woodson, he is still the #6, I guess there is a big dropoff from him on if he still stays at the 6 spot.A lot I have read on Flacco seems to have him getting higher and higher in the projections. I guess we will see in a couple of weeks just how this all works out.But good work Cecil! :(

Thanks man!Flacco has to be the biggest mystery of the top QBs. Size? check. Rifle arm? check. How could this kid not beat out Tyler Palko?? And the comment about taking a million sacks is somewhat bothersome. Protect him and you've got something. Flacco flushed from the pocket =

I'm no scout so I can't comment too much on Flacco's ability, but he was sacked 28 times in 15 games last year. Is that that what comment was about - less then 2 sacks/game?edit to add - now that I think about it I probably saw most of those sacks last year and I would be willing to bet more then half of them were of the jailbreak variety. So if taking about 1 sack per game from holding the ball is a big problem, I guess it is one that he has. Otherwise, I'm not sure where those comments came from.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

I've read the criticism on Flacco regarding taking all of those sacks. How was his O-line? Did he hold onto the ball trying to make big plays or was the defense in his face instantly? I don't have a problem with guys taking sacks if that means he's not trying to force a pass into coverage.

ETA: saw the video posted above along with a few others. Flacco does have some form of pocket presence. He made some nice adjustments with pressure in his face. Granted, these are highlight reels, so I'll take them with a grain of salt. But I was impressed none the less. Certainly has potential.

People have a hard time doing that sometimes, but it is a concern when watching strictly highlights on Youtube.

Flacco had a good run game at Delaware which helped him out. Shotgun formation and short passing helped him out too. I will say that Flacco has made improvement in his ability to slide around behind the line of scrimmage.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

Few hours and no comments? I like the read, I'm still amazed that with all the negative talk of Woodson, he is still the #6, I guess there is a big dropoff from him on if he still stays at the 6 spot.A lot I have read on Flacco seems to have him getting higher and higher in the projections. I guess we will see in a couple of weeks just how this all works out.But good work Cecil!

Thanks man!Flacco has to be the biggest mystery of the top QBs. Size? check. Rifle arm? check. How could this kid not beat out Tyler Palko?? And the comment about taking a million sacks is somewhat bothersome. Protect him and you've got something. Flacco flushed from the pocket =

I'm no scout so I can't comment too much on Flacco's ability, but he was sacked 28 times in 15 games last year. Is that that what comment was about - less then 2 sacks/game?edit to add - now that I think about it I probably saw most of those sacks last year and I would be willing to bet more then half of them were of the jailbreak variety. So if taking about 1 sack per game from holding the ball is a big problem, I guess it is one that he has. Otherwise, I'm not sure where those comments came from.

It isn't just about the sacks.Flacco barely worked from under center. He has poor foot quickness, and I feel will have difficulty in his 3,5, and 7 step drops. He has a tendency to lock on to his primary target, and struggles going through his reads. He hasn't seen the type of sophisticated defenses that he will go up against in the pros.Flacco must be protected to get the most out of his ability. QBs like Cutler/Roethlisberger have good foot quickness, are able to read defenses, and don't HAVE to have the best protection.

 

[LTsharks]

Few hours and no comments?

I like the read, I'm still amazed that with all the negative talk of Woodson, he is still the #6, I guess there is a big dropoff from him on if he still stays at the 6 spot.

A lot I have read on Flacco seems to have him getting higher and higher in the projections. I guess we will see in a couple of weeks just how this all works out.

But good work Cecil!

Thanks man!Flacco has to be the biggest mystery of the top QBs. Size? check. Rifle arm? check. How could this kid not beat out Tyler Palko?? And the comment about taking a million sacks is somewhat bothersome. Protect him and you've got something. Flacco flushed from the pocket = :X

I'm no scout so I can't comment too much on Flacco's ability, but he was sacked 28 times in 15 games last year. Is that that what comment was about - less then 2 sacks/game?edit to add - now that I think about it I probably saw most of those sacks last year and I would be willing to bet more then half of them were of the jailbreak variety. So if taking about 1 sack per game from holding the ball is a big problem, I guess it is one that he has. Otherwise, I'm not sure where those comments came from.

It isn't just about the sacks.Flacco barely worked from under center. He has poor foot quickness, and I feel will have difficulty in his 3,5, and 7 step drops. He has a tendency to lock on to his primary target, and struggles going through his reads. He hasn't seen the type of sophisticated defenses that he will go up against in the pros.

Flacco must be protected to get the most out of his ability. QBs like Cutler/Roethlisberger have good foot quickness, are able to read defenses, and don't HAVE to have the best protection.

I get all of that and trust me, I'm not trying to make a claim that he is the second coming. But the quote is:"Fundamentally he? pretty good. But I watched him take about a million sacks on tape. He couldn't move around."

So either that coach was full of it or he did a terrible job of describing what he was trying to say. People reading that quote will think he took a ton of sacks at Delaware because he couldn't make the read or get out of the way in the offense he was playing in. That isn't the case at all. If you want to make the case that it will be different in the pros that is a very legit discussion point. I never like it when people exaggerate claims to make a point. It really doesn't help them and serves to hurt what they are really trying to say. That seems to be what this coach did.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

Few hours and no comments?

I like the read, I'm still amazed that with all the negative talk of Woodson, he is still the #6, I guess there is a big dropoff from him on if he still stays at the 6 spot.

A lot I have read on Flacco seems to have him getting higher and higher in the projections. I guess we will see in a couple of weeks just how this all works out.

But good work Cecil!

Thanks man!Flacco has to be the biggest mystery of the top QBs. Size? check. Rifle arm? check. How could this kid not beat out Tyler Palko?? And the comment about taking a million sacks is somewhat bothersome. Protect him and you've got something. Flacco flushed from the pocket = :X

I'm no scout so I can't comment too much on Flacco's ability, but he was sacked 28 times in 15 games last year. Is that that what comment was about - less then 2 sacks/game?edit to add - now that I think about it I probably saw most of those sacks last year and I would be willing to bet more then half of them were of the jailbreak variety. So if taking about 1 sack per game from holding the ball is a big problem, I guess it is one that he has. Otherwise, I'm not sure where those comments came from.

It isn't just about the sacks.Flacco barely worked from under center. He has poor foot quickness, and I feel will have difficulty in his 3,5, and 7 step drops. He has a tendency to lock on to his primary target, and struggles going through his reads. He hasn't seen the type of sophisticated defenses that he will go up against in the pros.

Flacco must be protected to get the most out of his ability. QBs like Cutler/Roethlisberger have good foot quickness, are able to read defenses, and don't HAVE to have the best protection.

I get all of that and trust me, I'm not trying to make a claim that he is the second coming. But the quote is:"Fundamentally he? pretty good. But I watched him take about a million sacks on tape. He couldn't move around."

So either that coach was full of it or he did a terrible job of describing what he was trying to say. People reading that quote will think he took a ton of sacks at Delaware because he couldn't make the read or get out of the way in the offense he was playing in. That isn't the case at all. If you want to make the case that it will be different in the pros that is a very legit discussion point. I never like it when people exaggerate claims to make a point. It really doesn't help them and serves to hurt what they are really trying to say. That seems to be what this coach did.

very well said

 

[loose circuits]

no love for Bernie Morris or Paul Smith?

Personally, I like Bernie Morris as a Josh Johnson like project. He has a lightning quick release, but probably needs some fundamental tweaks. For example, better touch on his checkdowns. However, I think he could be just as good as anybody in this draft...

 

[Cecil Lammey]

no love for Bernie Morris or Paul Smith?Personally, I like Bernie Morris as a Josh Johnson like project. He has a lightning quick release, but probably needs some fundamental tweaks. For example, better touch on his checkdowns. However, I think he could be just as good as anybody in this draft...

Got to see Bernard Morris and Josh Johnson up close at this year's Shrine Game. As you said, Morris' release is quick, but very, very awkward. He is also not near the athlete that Johnson is. The touch observation is spot on. I currently am wrapping up my updated rankings, but I have Morris in the 15 range.