My wife, she's... overweight. (3 Viewers)

[pats3in4]

I think she is testing his resolve. What is your resolve invaded?

Are you ready to pull the ripcord?

I don't think she is testing his resolve. I think she is trying to avoid doing anything, just like she seemingly has been for years.

I think it's less a cognitive decision to not change, or not to make efforts to change, and more a simple inability to do so. She's just not capable.

You say that now, but the sad thing is, if you leave her, she'll lose weight and change her attitude in a heartbeat, just long enough to snag another man. It's what a lot of women do.

And then she'll go back to her old ways. In any case, anyone leaving their spouse needs to have the mindset of looking forward and not looking back on what could have been. If she loses the weight, finds another guy and this time decides to keep the weight off, then so be it.

 

[James Daulton]

If she's not capable, or willing, then a choice has to be made. Till death to us part is not automatic. Sorry. Each party is entitled to happiness and fulfillment. If somebody becomes an alcoholic, drug user, felon, batterer is it until death? Of course not. What about if they become verbally abusive and won't change? I wouldn't stay. How about if they become a hoarder? I can't live like that, so after umpteen attempts at counseling I'd be gone. If they stop caring for themselves physically or deny intimacy I'm gone too. Of course after multiple attempts at therapy. You married her, she deserves a shot.

I will say that after my wife saw that 70% of my friends are now divorced she tries even harder to make our marriage great. Doesn't take me for granted, and hasn't turned down an initiation for sex in 5 years. Also doing Cardio Barre religiously. Smart woman - she knows what we have is great and wants it to continue. By the way, all of the guys (40's and 50's) who now have fractured families and twenty something's they are sleeping with said they would switch places with me tomorrow. But I was lucky or smart in choosing a great life partner, and it's better now than it was when we married 28 years ago. But we've always been best friends too. Don't think we've ever had a real fight.

But if my wife even refused to acknowledge an issue, and made zero attempt even if it was important to me, it would be rough to stay. I would think she thinks the same way. You get what you put into all relationships. And if your wife isn't putting in she just might not have a relationship to worry about anymore.

Can you unpack this a little bit? You're saying they're hooking up with much younger women, but still aren't happy? What do they miss about being married, their wife, kids full-time? Did they initiate the divorce? Just curious since for folks our age in unhappy marriages, I'd think hooking up with some young strange would be great.

 

[Patriotsfatboy1]

If she's not capable, or willing, then a choice has to be made. Till death to us part is not automatic. Sorry. Each party is entitled to happiness and fulfillment. If somebody becomes an alcoholic, drug user, felon, batterer is it until death? Of course not. What about if they become verbally abusive and won't change? I wouldn't stay. How about if they become a hoarder? I can't live like that, so after umpteen attempts at counseling I'd be gone. If they stop caring for themselves physically or deny intimacy I'm gone too. Of course after multiple attempts at therapy. You married her, she deserves a shot.

I will say that after my wife saw that 70% of my friends are now divorced she tries even harder to make our marriage great. Doesn't take me for granted, and hasn't turned down an initiation for sex in 5 years. Also doing Cardio Barre religiously. Smart woman - she knows what we have is great and wants it to continue. By the way, all of the guys (40's and 50's) who now have fractured families and twenty something's they are sleeping with said they would switch places with me tomorrow. But I was lucky or smart in choosing a great life partner, and it's better now than it was when we married 28 years ago. But we've always been best friends too. Don't think we've ever had a real fight.

But if my wife even refused to acknowledge an issue, and made zero attempt even if it was important to me, it would be rough to stay. I would think she thinks the same way. You get what you put into all relationships. And if your wife isn't putting in she just might not have a relationship to worry about anymore.

Can you unpack this a little bit? You're saying they're hooking up with much younger women, but still aren't happy? What do they miss about being married, their wife, kids full-time? Did they initiate the divorce? Just curious since for folks our age in unhappy marriages, I'd think hooking up with some young strange would be great.

Short-term, you want some fine young tail. Afterwards, you are still looking for someone with similar interests and goals. When there is a big age gap, that can be lacking.

At least that is what I have heard.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think she is testing his resolve. What is your resolve invaded?

Are you ready to pull the ripcord?

I don't think she is testing his resolve. I think she is trying to avoid doing anything, just like she seemingly has been for years.

Maybe. Perhaps she is hoping that this too shall pass. And it will. One way or the other.

 

[Judge Smails]

If she's not capable, or willing, then a choice has to be made. Till death to us part is not automatic. Sorry. Each party is entitled to happiness and fulfillment. If somebody becomes an alcoholic, drug user, felon, batterer is it until death? Of course not. What about if they become verbally abusive and won't change? I wouldn't stay. How about if they become a hoarder? I can't live like that, so after umpteen attempts at counseling I'd be gone. If they stop caring for themselves physically or deny intimacy I'm gone too. Of course after multiple attempts at therapy. You married her, she deserves a shot.

I will say that after my wife saw that 70% of my friends are now divorced she tries even harder to make our marriage great. Doesn't take me for granted, and hasn't turned down an initiation for sex in 5 years. Also doing Cardio Barre religiously. Smart woman - she knows what we have is great and wants it to continue. By the way, all of the guys (40's and 50's) who now have fractured families and twenty something's they are sleeping with said they would switch places with me tomorrow. But I was lucky or smart in choosing a great life partner, and it's better now than it was when we married 28 years ago. But we've always been best friends too. Don't think we've ever had a real fight.

But if my wife even refused to acknowledge an issue, and made zero attempt even if it was important to me, it would be rough to stay. I would think she thinks the same way. You get what you put into all relationships. And if your wife isn't putting in she just might not have a relationship to worry about anymore.

Can you unpack this a little bit? You're saying they're hooking up with much younger women, but still aren't happy? What do they miss about being married, their wife, kids full-time? Did they initiate the divorce? Just curious since for folks our age in unhappy marriages, I'd think hooking up with some young strange would be great.

1) The financial hit is ROUGH. All are struggling. At one point 2 divorced guys were living with the 3rd divorce guy. One couch surfs 3 nights a week at my friend's house and then spends a few nights a week at her apartment, and hour plus away.2) See their kids less

3) Friendships suffer. They have to maintain the strange. Sorta takes awhile for them to get back in the circle. My wife knew all of their wives. While cordial, you can understand that most wives aren't inviting the guys with 22 year old strange to dinner parties, SuperBowl parties, whatever. Right or wrong - it is what it is. Nothing in common. Try having a conversation with one where "like" isn't every other word. I see my friends a whole lot less now. Their nights or weekends are tied up. They go where the ##### is. I get it.

4) Lives are sort of hectic. Most aren't just one night stands. They get young girlfriends. Sure, sex is fun and frequent but ultimately they start pushing relationship status too. So it's probably off to the next one. Makes sense for now - why rush into another commitment, but long term they all said it's empty.

5) 50/50 on initiating the divorce. Usually cheating involved. One similar to the OP just realized they made a young mistake and weren't right for each other.

For all the no marriage types, I just can't imagine getting older without somebody meaningful to share life experiences with, and to be there if needed. But that's just me.

 

[James Daulton]

If she's not capable, or willing, then a choice has to be made. Till death to us part is not automatic. Sorry. Each party is entitled to happiness and fulfillment. If somebody becomes an alcoholic, drug user, felon, batterer is it until death? Of course not. What about if they become verbally abusive and won't change? I wouldn't stay. How about if they become a hoarder? I can't live like that, so after umpteen attempts at counseling I'd be gone. If they stop caring for themselves physically or deny intimacy I'm gone too. Of course after multiple attempts at therapy. You married her, she deserves a shot.

I will say that after my wife saw that 70% of my friends are now divorced she tries even harder to make our marriage great. Doesn't take me for granted, and hasn't turned down an initiation for sex in 5 years. Also doing Cardio Barre religiously. Smart woman - she knows what we have is great and wants it to continue. By the way, all of the guys (40's and 50's) who now have fractured families and twenty something's they are sleeping with said they would switch places with me tomorrow. But I was lucky or smart in choosing a great life partner, and it's better now than it was when we married 28 years ago. But we've always been best friends too. Don't think we've ever had a real fight.

But if my wife even refused to acknowledge an issue, and made zero attempt even if it was important to me, it would be rough to stay. I would think she thinks the same way. You get what you put into all relationships. And if your wife isn't putting in she just might not have a relationship to worry about anymore.

Can you unpack this a little bit? You're saying they're hooking up with much younger women, but still aren't happy? What do they miss about being married, their wife, kids full-time? Did they initiate the divorce? Just curious since for folks our age in unhappy marriages, I'd think hooking up with some young strange would be great.

1) The financial hit is ROUGH. All are struggling. At one point 2 divorced guys were living with the 3rd divorce guy. One couch surfs 3 nights a week at my friend's house and then spends a few nights a week at her apartment, and hour plus away.2) See their kids less

3) Friendships suffer. They have to maintain the strange. Sorta takes awhile for them to get back in the circle. My wife knew all of their wives. While cordial, you can understand that most wives aren't inviting the guys with 22 year old strange to dinner parties, SuperBowl parties, whatever. Right or wrong - it is what it is. Nothing in common. Try having a conversation with one where "like" isn't every other word. I see my friends a whole lot less now. Their nights or weekends are tied up. They go where the ##### is. I get it.

4) Lives are sort of hectic. Most aren't just one night stands. They get young girlfriends. Sure, sex is fun and frequent but ultimately they start pushing relationship status too. So it's probably off to the next one. Makes sense for now - why rush into another commitment, but long term they all said it's empty.

5) 50/50 on initiating the divorce. Usually cheating involved. One similar to the OP just realized they made a young mistake and weren't right for each other.

For all the no marriage types, I just can't imagine getting older without somebody meaningful to share life experiences with, and to be there if needed. But that's just me.

The points you've made are great, and not ones that leap to mind given the scenario of an older dude getting some young tail. Very interesting.

Also, you're in Cali so I think the divorce laws vastly favor the women, but why is the financial hit so bad? Don't they basically just split up the assets/debs? Is it child support or alimony? And if the dudes are older, aren't the kids usually older too? Do the kids typically harbor a grudge against the guy?

 

[Sabertooth]

If she's not capable, or willing, then a choice has to be made. Till death to us part is not automatic. Sorry. Each party is entitled to happiness and fulfillment. If somebody becomes an alcoholic, drug user, felon, batterer is it until death? Of course not. What about if they become verbally abusive and won't change? I wouldn't stay. How about if they become a hoarder? I can't live like that, so after umpteen attempts at counseling I'd be gone. If they stop caring for themselves physically or deny intimacy I'm gone too. Of course after multiple attempts at therapy. You married her, she deserves a shot.

I will say that after my wife saw that 70% of my friends are now divorced she tries even harder to make our marriage great. Doesn't take me for granted, and hasn't turned down an initiation for sex in 5 years. Also doing Cardio Barre religiously. Smart woman - she knows what we have is great and wants it to continue. By the way, all of the guys (40's and 50's) who now have fractured families and twenty something's they are sleeping with said they would switch places with me tomorrow. But I was lucky or smart in choosing a great life partner, and it's better now than it was when we married 28 years ago. But we've always been best friends too. Don't think we've ever had a real fight.

But if my wife even refused to acknowledge an issue, and made zero attempt even if it was important to me, it would be rough to stay. I would think she thinks the same way. You get what you put into all relationships. And if your wife isn't putting in she just might not have a relationship to worry about anymore.

Can you unpack this a little bit? You're saying they're hooking up with much younger women, but still aren't happy? What do they miss about being married, their wife, kids full-time? Did they initiate the divorce? Just curious since for folks our age in unhappy marriages, I'd think hooking up with some young strange would be great.

1) The financial hit is ROUGH. All are struggling. At one point 2 divorced guys were living with the 3rd divorce guy. One couch surfs 3 nights a week at my friend's house and then spends a few nights a week at her apartment, and hour plus away.2) See their kids less

3) Friendships suffer. They have to maintain the strange. Sorta takes awhile for them to get back in the circle. My wife knew all of their wives. While cordial, you can understand that most wives aren't inviting the guys with 22 year old strange to dinner parties, SuperBowl parties, whatever. Right or wrong - it is what it is. Nothing in common. Try having a conversation with one where "like" isn't every other word. I see my friends a whole lot less now. Their nights or weekends are tied up. They go where the ##### is. I get it.

4) Lives are sort of hectic. Most aren't just one night stands. They get young girlfriends. Sure, sex is fun and frequent but ultimately they start pushing relationship status too. So it's probably off to the next one. Makes sense for now - why rush into another commitment, but long term they all said it's empty.

5) 50/50 on initiating the divorce. Usually cheating involved. One similar to the OP just realized they made a young mistake and weren't right for each other.

For all the no marriage types, I just can't imagine getting older without somebody meaningful to share life experiences with, and to be there if needed. But that's just me.

This is a great post. Dose of reality there.

 

[Invaded?]

I think she is testing his resolve. What is your resolve invaded?

Are you ready to pull the ripcord?

I don't think she is testing his resolve. I think she is trying to avoid doing anything, just like she seemingly has been for years.

I think it's less a cognitive decision to not change, or not to make efforts to change, and more a simple inability to do so. She's just not capable.

You say that now, but the sad thing is, if you leave her, she'll lose weight and change her attitude in a heartbeat, just long enough to snag another man. It's what a lot of women do.

And then she'll go back to her old ways. In any case, anyone leaving their spouse needs to have the mindset of looking forward and not looking back on what could have been. If she loses the weight, finds another guy and this time decides to keep the weight off, then so be it.

Yeah, I'm prepared for whatever happens if/when we split. I would love it if she got herself together and truly was able to live life happy.

 

[Invaded?]

If she's not capable, or willing, then a choice has to be made. Till death to us part is not automatic. Sorry. Each party is entitled to happiness and fulfillment. If somebody becomes an alcoholic, drug user, felon, batterer is it until death? Of course not. What about if they become verbally abusive and won't change? I wouldn't stay. How about if they become a hoarder? I can't live like that, so after umpteen attempts at counseling I'd be gone. If they stop caring for themselves physically or deny intimacy I'm gone too. Of course after multiple attempts at therapy. You married her, she deserves a shot.

I will say that after my wife saw that 70% of my friends are now divorced she tries even harder to make our marriage great. Doesn't take me for granted, and hasn't turned down an initiation for sex in 5 years. Also doing Cardio Barre religiously. Smart woman - she knows what we have is great and wants it to continue. By the way, all of the guys (40's and 50's) who now have fractured families and twenty something's they are sleeping with said they would switch places with me tomorrow. But I was lucky or smart in choosing a great life partner, and it's better now than it was when we married 28 years ago. But we've always been best friends too. Don't think we've ever had a real fight.

But if my wife even refused to acknowledge an issue, and made zero attempt even if it was important to me, it would be rough to stay. I would think she thinks the same way. You get what you put into all relationships. And if your wife isn't putting in she just might not have a relationship to worry about anymore.

Can you unpack this a little bit? You're saying they're hooking up with much younger women, but still aren't happy? What do they miss about being married, their wife, kids full-time? Did they initiate the divorce? Just curious since for folks our age in unhappy marriages, I'd think hooking up with some young strange would be great.

1) The financial hit is ROUGH. All are struggling. At one point 2 divorced guys were living with the 3rd divorce guy. One couch surfs 3 nights a week at my friend's house and then spends a few nights a week at her apartment, and hour plus away.2) See their kids less

3) Friendships suffer. They have to maintain the strange. Sorta takes awhile for them to get back in the circle. My wife knew all of their wives. While cordial, you can understand that most wives aren't inviting the guys with 22 year old strange to dinner parties, SuperBowl parties, whatever. Right or wrong - it is what it is. Nothing in common. Try having a conversation with one where "like" isn't every other word. I see my friends a whole lot less now. Their nights or weekends are tied up. They go where the ##### is. I get it.

4) Lives are sort of hectic. Most aren't just one night stands. They get young girlfriends. Sure, sex is fun and frequent but ultimately they start pushing relationship status too. So it's probably off to the next one. Makes sense for now - why rush into another commitment, but long term they all said it's empty.

5) 50/50 on initiating the divorce. Usually cheating involved. One similar to the OP just realized they made a young mistake and weren't right for each other.

For all the no marriage types, I just can't imagine getting older without somebody meaningful to share life experiences with, and to be there if needed. But that's just me.

This is a great post. Dose of reality there.

Financial - I'll be fine. I expect joint custody, and whatever child support there is won't be too bad considering she makes almost as much as me on an hourly basis (though she works less). I won't be living the life of luxury for a while, but I'll be fine.

Kids - this is the hardest thing to come to grips with. Not seeing the kids every day, kissing them goodnight every night... will be difficult. I have no doubt I can be an amazing dad in either scenario, but it will be tough missing out on things.

Friends - I have friends. WE don't have friends. So no real change there. My social circle will probably grow.

Hectic life - a hectic life seems better than no life.

5. - not sure what the exact point is there, but I agree... in the end I do need someone to spend my life with, someone I enjoy time with / experiencing things with, someone I love, and someone that loves me the way I need to be loved

 

[Judge Smails]

If she's not capable, or willing, then a choice has to be made. Till death to us part is not automatic. Sorry. Each party is entitled to happiness and fulfillment. If somebody becomes an alcoholic, drug user, felon, batterer is it until death? Of course not. What about if they become verbally abusive and won't change? I wouldn't stay. How about if they become a hoarder? I can't live like that, so after umpteen attempts at counseling I'd be gone. If they stop caring for themselves physically or deny intimacy I'm gone too. Of course after multiple attempts at therapy. You married her, she deserves a shot.

I will say that after my wife saw that 70% of my friends are now divorced she tries even harder to make our marriage great. Doesn't take me for granted, and hasn't turned down an initiation for sex in 5 years. Also doing Cardio Barre religiously. Smart woman - she knows what we have is great and wants it to continue. By the way, all of the guys (40's and 50's) who now have fractured families and twenty something's they are sleeping with said they would switch places with me tomorrow. But I was lucky or smart in choosing a great life partner, and it's better now than it was when we married 28 years ago. But we've always been best friends too. Don't think we've ever had a real fight.

But if my wife even refused to acknowledge an issue, and made zero attempt even if it was important to me, it would be rough to stay. I would think she thinks the same way. You get what you put into all relationships. And if your wife isn't putting in she just might not have a relationship to worry about anymore.

Can you unpack this a little bit? You're saying they're hooking up with much younger women, but still aren't happy? What do they miss about being married, their wife, kids full-time? Did they initiate the divorce? Just curious since for folks our age in unhappy marriages, I'd think hooking up with some young strange would be great.

1) The financial hit is ROUGH. All are struggling. At one point 2 divorced guys were living with the 3rd divorce guy. One couch surfs 3 nights a week at my friend's house and then spends a few nights a week at her apartment, and hour plus away.2) See their kids less

3) Friendships suffer. They have to maintain the strange. Sorta takes awhile for them to get back in the circle. My wife knew all of their wives. While cordial, you can understand that most wives aren't inviting the guys with 22 year old strange to dinner parties, SuperBowl parties, whatever. Right or wrong - it is what it is. Nothing in common. Try having a conversation with one where "like" isn't every other word. I see my friends a whole lot less now. Their nights or weekends are tied up. They go where the ##### is. I get it.

4) Lives are sort of hectic. Most aren't just one night stands. They get young girlfriends. Sure, sex is fun and frequent but ultimately they start pushing relationship status too. So it's probably off to the next one. Makes sense for now - why rush into another commitment, but long term they all said it's empty.

5) 50/50 on initiating the divorce. Usually cheating involved. One similar to the OP just realized they made a young mistake and weren't right for each other.

For all the no marriage types, I just can't imagine getting older without somebody meaningful to share life experiences with, and to be there if needed. But that's just me.

This is a great post. Dose of reality there.

Financial - I'll be fine. I expect joint custody, and whatever child support there is won't be too bad considering she makes almost as much as me on an hourly basis (though she works less). I won't be living the life of luxury for a while, but I'll be fine.Kids - this is the hardest thing to come to grips with. Not seeing the kids every day, kissing them goodnight every night... will be difficult. I have no doubt I can be an amazing dad in either scenario, but it will be tough missing out on things.

Friends - I have friends. WE don't have friends. So no real change there. My social circle will probably grow.

Hectic life - a hectic life seems better than no life.

5. - not sure what the exact point is there, but I agree... in the end I do need someone to spend my life with, someone I enjoy time with / experiencing things with, someone I love, and someone that loves me the way I need to be loved

I'm 100% in your camp and based on what you have said I would fully understand you initiating a divorce. I would try to be as amicable as possible with your wife and agree to put the kids first. Over time, you will find a much better life partner.

 

[Sabertooth]

edited.

 

[Sabertooth]

Smails.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

Smails.

OK, but I'm not sure he put things exactly the way you did. I was a little taken aback by your language. I don't think we have enough information to say that stuff.

 

[Sabertooth]

Yeah maybe a little too much venom in my post. I'll delete it.

Amend to: If she's not willing to even try, she's probably never going to be.

 

[Tick]

How's the sex life? I mean outside of attraction issues. Frequent? Good quality? Does she try to ruin it by doing things to turn you off?

Well... it's bad.

In general I'm the only initiator when I just can't deal with it any more [not lately... I haven't initiated in a long time]. Healthy marriage frequency was still only a few times a month. I don't want to talk too much crap about her, but she's not good in bed. Little to no passion/feedback/etc. She's a terrible kisser.

Her definition of sex initiation is literally "I'm going to go up to bed. You can/are welcome to join me if you want." Some times, if she's feeling extra frisky, she might tell me that she would LIKE me to join her. Woooo!!!!

Does she typically go to bed before you, and you stay up checking the internet or watching sports awhile longer?

Yes. This is a problem that I have admitted to contributing to over the years. It's not a recipe for a healthy intimate relationship. But it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. It wasn't always that way.

Go to bed earlier, and not just when you want some. Do it every night. Get an iPad if you must and watch Netflix or surf in bed. Just be there, not downstairs.

Otherwise, when you do go to bed early and poke her, she'll be even more annoyed that you only go upstairs early when you want some.

I've made this mistake in an otherwise awesome, healthy marriage. Fixing it is easy and worthwhile.

 

[Tick]

If she's not capable, or willing, then a choice has to be made. Till death to us part is not automatic. Sorry. Each party is entitled to happiness and fulfillment. If somebody becomes an alcoholic, drug user, felon, batterer is it until death? Of course not. What about if they become verbally abusive and won't change? I wouldn't stay. How about if they become a hoarder? I can't live like that, so after umpteen attempts at counseling I'd be gone. If they stop caring for themselves physically or deny intimacy I'm gone too. Of course after multiple attempts at therapy. You married her, she deserves a shot.

I will say that after my wife saw that 70% of my friends are now divorced she tries even harder to make our marriage great. Doesn't take me for granted, and hasn't turned down an initiation for sex in 5 years. Also doing Cardio Barre religiously. Smart woman - she knows what we have is great and wants it to continue. By the way, all of the guys (40's and 50's) who now have fractured families and twenty something's they are sleeping with said they would switch places with me tomorrow. But I was lucky or smart in choosing a great life partner, and it's better now than it was when we married 28 years ago. But we've always been best friends too. Don't think we've ever had a real fight.

But if my wife even refused to acknowledge an issue, and made zero attempt even if it was important to me, it would be rough to stay. I would think she thinks the same way. You get what you put into all relationships. And if your wife isn't putting in she just might not have a relationship to worry about anymore.

Can you unpack this a little bit? You're saying they're hooking up with much younger women, but still aren't happy? What do they miss about being married, their wife, kids full-time? Did they initiate the divorce? Just curious since for folks our age in unhappy marriages, I'd think hooking up with some young strange would be great.

1) The financial hit is ROUGH. All are struggling. At one point 2 divorced guys were living with the 3rd divorce guy. One couch surfs 3 nights a week at my friend's house and then spends a few nights a week at her apartment, and hour plus away.2) See their kids less

3) Friendships suffer. They have to maintain the strange. Sorta takes awhile for them to get back in the circle. My wife knew all of their wives. While cordial, you can understand that most wives aren't inviting the guys with 22 year old strange to dinner parties, SuperBowl parties, whatever. Right or wrong - it is what it is. Nothing in common. Try having a conversation with one where "like" isn't every other word. I see my friends a whole lot less now. Their nights or weekends are tied up. They go where the ##### is. I get it.

4) Lives are sort of hectic. Most aren't just one night stands. They get young girlfriends. Sure, sex is fun and frequent but ultimately they start pushing relationship status too. So it's probably off to the next one. Makes sense for now - why rush into another commitment, but long term they all said it's empty.

5) 50/50 on initiating the divorce. Usually cheating involved. One similar to the OP just realized they made a young mistake and weren't right for each other.

For all the no marriage types, I just can't imagine getting older without somebody meaningful to share life experiences with, and to be there if needed. But that's just me.

This is a great post. Dose of reality there.

Financial - I'll be fine. I expect joint custody, and whatever child support there is won't be too bad considering she makes almost as much as me on an hourly basis (though she works less). I won't be living the life of luxury for a while, but I'll be fine.

Kids - this is the hardest thing to come to grips with. Not seeing the kids every day, kissing them goodnight every night... will be difficult. I have no doubt I can be an amazing dad in either scenario, but it will be tough missing out on things.

Friends - I have friends. WE don't have friends. So no real change there. My social circle will probably grow.

Hectic life - a hectic life seems better than no life.

5. - not sure what the exact point is there, but I agree... in the end I do need someone to spend my life with, someone I enjoy time with / experiencing things with, someone I love, and someone that loves me the way I need to be loved

Another I've seen in my brother... you get shackled to her town. If she moves and you want to see your kids, you have to move also. If she stays put, you can't leave.

 

[Northern Voice]

How's the sex life? I mean outside of attraction issues. Frequent? Good quality? Does she try to ruin it by doing things to turn you off?

Well... it's bad.

In general I'm the only initiator when I just can't deal with it any more [not lately... I haven't initiated in a long time]. Healthy marriage frequency was still only a few times a month. I don't want to talk too much crap about her, but she's not good in bed. Little to no passion/feedback/etc. She's a terrible kisser.

Her definition of sex initiation is literally "I'm going to go up to bed. You can/are welcome to join me if you want." Some times, if she's feeling extra frisky, she might tell me that she would LIKE me to join her. Woooo!!!!

Does she typically go to bed before you, and you stay up checking the internet or watching sports awhile longer?

Yes. This is a problem that I have admitted to contributing to over the years. It's not a recipe for a healthy intimate relationship. But it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. It wasn't always that way.

Go to bed earlier, and not just when you want some. Do it every night. Get an iPad if you must and watch Netflix or surf in bed. Just be there, not downstairs.

Otherwise, when you do go to bed early and poke her, she'll be even more annoyed that you only go upstairs early when you want some.

I've made this mistake in an otherwise awesome, healthy marriage. Fixing it is easy and worthwhile.

On the other hand, my wife much prefers that if I'm going to be up later than her, I do it downstairs where no light/sounds/movement will bother her. She is a runner and gets up very early most mornings to get 10-15K in and get to work for 8:30ish. She always goes to bed earlier and wakes up earlier than me. Sex isn't affected by it, I just know that if it hasn't happened by 9 PMish, it likely isn't going to. So we both make sure it does before then. Afterwards it's no big deal if I head back downstairs to watch the end of a baseball game.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

How's the sex life? I mean outside of attraction issues. Frequent? Good quality? Does she try to ruin it by doing things to turn you off?

Well... it's bad.

In general I'm the only initiator when I just can't deal with it any more [not lately... I haven't initiated in a long time]. Healthy marriage frequency was still only a few times a month. I don't want to talk too much crap about her, but she's not good in bed. Little to no passion/feedback/etc. She's a terrible kisser.

Her definition of sex initiation is literally "I'm going to go up to bed. You can/are welcome to join me if you want." Some times, if she's feeling extra frisky, she might tell me that she would LIKE me to join her. Woooo!!!!

Does she typically go to bed before you, and you stay up checking the internet or watching sports awhile longer?

Yes. This is a problem that I have admitted to contributing to over the years. It's not a recipe for a healthy intimate relationship. But it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. It wasn't always that way.

Go to bed earlier, and not just when you want some. Do it every night. Get an iPad if you must and watch Netflix or surf in bed. Just be there, not downstairs.

Otherwise, when you do go to bed early and poke her, she'll be even more annoyed that you only go upstairs early when you want some.

I've made this mistake in an otherwise awesome, healthy marriage. Fixing it is easy and worthwhile.

Honestly, if you've read this whole thing, I think that you are oversimplifying this situation quite a bit.

 

[Tick]

How's the sex life? I mean outside of attraction issues. Frequent? Good quality? Does she try to ruin it by doing things to turn you off?

Well... it's bad.

In general I'm the only initiator when I just can't deal with it any more [not lately... I haven't initiated in a long time]. Healthy marriage frequency was still only a few times a month. I don't want to talk too much crap about her, but she's not good in bed. Little to no passion/feedback/etc. She's a terrible kisser.

Her definition of sex initiation is literally "I'm going to go up to bed. You can/are welcome to join me if you want." Some times, if she's feeling extra frisky, she might tell me that she would LIKE me to join her. Woooo!!!!

Does she typically go to bed before you, and you stay up checking the internet or watching sports awhile longer?

Yes. This is a problem that I have admitted to contributing to over the years. It's not a recipe for a healthy intimate relationship. But it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. It wasn't always that way.

Go to bed earlier, and not just when you want some. Do it every night. Get an iPad if you must and watch Netflix or surf in bed. Just be there, not downstairs.

Otherwise, when you do go to bed early and poke her, she'll be even more annoyed that you only go upstairs early when you want some.

I've made this mistake in an otherwise awesome, healthy marriage. Fixing it is easy and worthwhile.

Honestly, if you've read this whole thing, I think that you are oversimplifying this situation quite a bit.

I have read the whole thing. I'm assuming that at some point he decides to try again. If he does, this is an easy thing to do that in my opinion could help.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

Therapist wants to meet once with each of us alone, then back together. I don't know.

Did this happen yet?

 

[Invaded?]

Therapist wants to meet once with each of us alone, then back together. I don't know.

Did this happen yet?

Yeah, that was about a week and a half ago. Again, the individual session was really another rehash of things, just with more time for me to talk. I was completely honest with him on where I was and what my feelings about the future were.

We had our first session back together the other day. Really nothing came out of it. There are just fundamental issues dividing us, and it's hard for me to imagine a resolution to them that leaves me happy. I don't think this therapist has been that great (seems like he's done a lot of parroting things back to us), but we'll give him a little longer before moving on/deciding what to do next.

 

[Cjw_55106]

So what you're saying is, he isn't that helpful, but you're not quite ready to give up yet, is that right?

 

[pats3in4]

Sometimes it takes several sessions to come to a tipping point. My wife and I are on our 2nd marriage counselor (both of her choosing, the 1st she decided wasn't for her). This counselor gives us homework assignments, just little ones that are baby steps towards rebuilding good will. Every week we start off the sessions with a check in on how the week went, including this homework. Routinely my wife would say, "I'm just not ready to do that", then give a laundry list of reasons why (usually blaming me in some way). During yesterday's session the therapist called her out, telling her, "For weeks now I've been trying to help you build good will toward each other and honestly it is you who has been reluctant every step of the way. Think hard about what you really want in this relationship and if you really don't want to put in the effort, we need to start asking some big questions in next week's session."

Last night she started doing the homework.

Your therapist is going to hear a lot from both you and your wife. Your story and her story are going to be significantly different, with lots of contradictions. There is no way the therapist can gauge what's going on right off the bat. In my case, it took several sessions for the therapist to gauge that my wife was putting up roadblocks every step of the way. She needed time to see past the words and view the actions instead. Your therapist will need that time as well.

 

[James Daulton]

Therapist wants to meet once with each of us alone, then back together. I don't know.

Did this happen yet?

Yeah, that was about a week and a half ago. Again, the individual session was really another rehash of things, just with more time for me to talk. I was completely honest with him on where I was and what my feelings about the future were.

We had our first session back together the other day. Really nothing came out of it. There are just fundamental issues dividing us, and it's hard for me to imagine a resolution to them that leaves me happy. I don't think this therapist has been that great (seems like he's done a lot of parroting things back to us), but we'll give him a little longer before moving on/deciding what to do next.

So you've pretty much made up your mind, yes? Kind of going through the motions just to make sure you have no regrets and to give your marriage every single chance. From the tone of your recent posts, that's the impression I get. Have you started planning for the new future as far as housing, finances, etc?

 

[Henry Ford]

Sometimes it takes several sessions to come to a tipping point. My wife and I are on our 2nd marriage counselor (both of her choosing, the 1st she decided wasn't for her). This counselor gives us homework assignments, just little ones that are baby steps towards rebuilding good will. Every week we start off the sessions with a check in on how the week went, including this homework. Routinely my wife would say, "I'm just not ready to do that", then give a laundry list of reasons why (usually blaming me in some way). During yesterday's session the therapist called her out, telling her, "For weeks now I've been trying to help you build good will toward each other and honestly it is you who has been reluctant every step of the way. Think hard about what you really want in this relationship and if you really don't want to put in the effort, we need to start asking some big questions in next week's session."

Last night she started doing the homework.

Your therapist is going to hear a lot from both you and your wife. Your story and her story are going to be significantly different, with lots of contradictions. There is no way the therapist can gauge what's going on right off the bat. In my case, it took several sessions for the therapist to gauge that my wife was putting up roadblocks every step of the way. She needed time to see past the words and view the actions instead. Your therapist will need that time as well.

Great posting. It's more about the therapist helping everyone figure out what they actually want than taking sides.

In many cases, one spouse wants to work on it, and one spouse wants to get vengeance/justification/whatever from the other spouse, while never admitting that to him/herself. If that's the case, it'll become clear who's who in time.

 

[Invaded?]

So what you're saying is, he isn't that helpful, but you're not quite ready to give up yet, is that right?

Therapist wants to meet once with each of us alone, then back together. I don't know.

Did this happen yet?

Yeah, that was about a week and a half ago. Again, the individual session was really another rehash of things, just with more time for me to talk. I was completely honest with him on where I was and what my feelings about the future were.

We had our first session back together the other day. Really nothing came out of it. There are just fundamental issues dividing us, and it's hard for me to imagine a resolution to them that leaves me happy. I don't think this therapist has been that great (seems like he's done a lot of parroting things back to us), but we'll give him a little longer before moving on/deciding what to do next.

So you've pretty much made up your mind, yes? Kind of going through the motions just to make sure you have no regrets and to give your marriage every single chance. From the tone of your recent posts, that's the impression I get. Have you started planning for the new future as far as housing, finances, etc?

Both fairly accurate.

No distinct planning. I've looked at rentals online, thought about division of assets, etc., just to gauge a broad perspective of the financial situation if it comes to that.

It will suck for a while but I think I'll be ok financially. Assuming 50/50 custody and us keeping our current jobs, I would ship her a small amount of money, but it shouldn't be too bad.

 

[Native]

Good luck man!

 

[Judge Smails]

I'm really interested to hear how the therapist brokers this type of stalemate. Woman says it should be till death do us part no matter how much I let myself go, man says this isn't what I signed up for. (or vice versa).

 

[Invaded?]

Another session this past Friday. There are so many barriers that I just can't see being overcome.

The weight thing came up in this past session. It was in context of the attractiveness conversation. I have explained over and over that while the health/weight thing is part of the equation, it's not the only thing. It's all tied together.

I explained how her efforts/choices in that area have affected me mentally (and by association, physically). To me, her choosing to not eat right, not put effort into exercising, not making an effort to make herself attractive and sexy to me... that is a choice. That is her prioritizing food, laziness, etc., over me.

She replies that in her mind, none of that has anything to do with her "love" for me.

She still sticks to the "you should love/be in love/be attracted/etc. to me no matter what" mantra. It's a barrier that I just don't think can ever be overcome. She is never going to see it "my" way, and thus will never make changes in those areas.

And there is so much more to fix that if we can't even address this one issue then we can't even begin to tackle the other stuff.

 

[culdeus]

You've stuck with this longer than I would have thought.

You have kids right? Make sure you read up on all the rules about how you leave the house, and on what terms. Do you have a lawyer yet to get more solid coaching?

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

Another session this past Friday. There are so many barriers that I just can't see being overcome.

The weight thing came up in this past session. It was in context of the attractiveness conversation. I have explained over and over that while the health/weight thing is part of the equation, it's not the only thing. It's all tied together.

I explained how her efforts/choices in that area have affected me mentally (and by association, physically). To me, her choosing to not eat right, not put effort into exercising, not making an effort to make herself attractive and sexy to me... that is a choice. That is her prioritizing food, laziness, etc., over me.

She replies that in her mind, none of that has anything to do with her "love" for me.

She still sticks to the "you should love/be in love/be attracted/etc. to me no matter what" mantra. It's a barrier that I just don't think can ever be overcome. She is never going to see it "my" way, and thus will never make changes in those areas.

And there is so much more to fix that if we can't even address this one issue then we can't even begin to tackle the other stuff.

Did the therapist take any sort of position on the issue?

I will say that even though our situations are similar, your wife seems somewhat different from mine on this. Mine is constantly professing that she is trying to lose weight, she is somewhat obsessive about it, she just seems incapable of losing weight and keeping it off. Yours seems to be disinterested in even trying. That seems hard to overcome.

 

[Sabertooth]

Till death do us part huh? Well, that should mean you are able to get some action on the side surely then right?

 

[Godsbrother]

So the first post you were saying she's about 60-70 lbs overweight. Has that changed at all?

 

[Invaded?]

You've stuck with this longer than I would have thought.

You have kids right? Make sure you read up on all the rules about how you leave the house, and on what terms. Do you have a lawyer yet to get more solid coaching?

I don't have a lawyer. But I have lawyer friends who have at least given me some basic things to think about.

I will be very careful even though I don't think the legal stuff is going to be a big deal. You never know though.

 

[Invaded?]

Another session this past Friday. There are so many barriers that I just can't see being overcome.

The weight thing came up in this past session. It was in context of the attractiveness conversation. I have explained over and over that while the health/weight thing is part of the equation, it's not the only thing. It's all tied together.

I explained how her efforts/choices in that area have affected me mentally (and by association, physically). To me, her choosing to not eat right, not put effort into exercising, not making an effort to make herself attractive and sexy to me... that is a choice. That is her prioritizing food, laziness, etc., over me.

She replies that in her mind, none of that has anything to do with her "love" for me.

She still sticks to the "you should love/be in love/be attracted/etc. to me no matter what" mantra. It's a barrier that I just don't think can ever be overcome. She is never going to see it "my" way, and thus will never make changes in those areas.

And there is so much more to fix that if we can't even address this one issue then we can't even begin to tackle the other stuff.

Did the therapist take any sort of position on the issue?

I will say that even though our situations are similar, your wife seems somewhat different from mine on this. Mine is constantly professing that she is trying to lose weight, she is somewhat obsessive about it, she just seems incapable of losing weight and keeping it off. Yours seems to be disinterested in even trying. That seems hard to overcome.

He really hasn't taken a stance on anything. He's talked about his goal of getting us to communicate. Honestly I don't think he's very good, but I'm not sure that matters.

 

[Invaded?]

So the first post you were saying she's about 60-70 lbs overweight. Has that changed at all?

No. She is 5'4" ish and weighs in the 195-205 lb range.

 

[Godsbrother]

So the first post you were saying she's about 60-70 lbs overweight. Has that changed at all?

No. She is 5'4" ish and weighs in the 195-205 lb range.

This chick is 5' 3.5" and 200 lbs: http://www.cockeyed.com/photos/bodies/l/503-200_Ashley_L1.jpg

Is that a reasonable facsimile of your wife's body?

 

[Invaded?]

So the first post you were saying she's about 60-70 lbs overweight. Has that changed at all?

No. She is 5'4" ish and weighs in the 195-205 lb range.

This chick is 5' 3.5" and 200 lbs: http://www.cockeyed.com/photos/bodies/l/503-200_Ashley_L1.jpg

Is that a reasonable facsimile of your wife's body?

Not really. This is probably close: http://www.mybodygallery.com/photos-32319-body-shape.htm?StartAt=14#.U80xg_ldVHV

 

[jomar]

trying to eat my lunch over here!!

 

[Godsbrother]

So the first post you were saying she's about 60-70 lbs overweight. Has that changed at all?

No. She is 5'4" ish and weighs in the 195-205 lb range.

This chick is 5' 3.5" and 200 lbs: http://www.cockeyed.com/photos/bodies/l/503-200_Ashley_L1.jpg

Is that a reasonable facsimile of your wife's body?

Not really. This is probably close: http://www.mybodygallery.com/photos-32319-body-shape.htm?StartAt=14#.U80xg_ldVHV

So the first post you were saying she's about 60-70 lbs overweight. Has that changed at all?

No. She is 5'4" ish and weighs in the 195-205 lb range.

This chick is 5' 3.5" and 200 lbs: http://www.cockeyed.com/photos/bodies/l/503-200_Ashley_L1.jpg

Is that a reasonable facsimile of your wife's body?

Not really. This is probably close: http://www.mybodygallery.com/photos-32319-body-shape.htm?StartAt=14#.U80xg_ldVHV

I'm sure that you've went through the other issues earlier in the thread so I won't ask you to go through them again but if she were 75 lbs lighter would you still be considering divorce?

 

[culdeus]

75 pounds on that frame is at least an 18 month process. Are willing to wait this out?

 

[Invaded?]

Again, it's not just about the weight. There are so many issues at play here.

When I started this thread I was in a totally different place. The weight was a big issue, but I didn't realize what the real problems were and how they were all tied together.

We would still be in counseling right now if she was magically 70 lbs lighter. Unless losing those 70 lbs made her magically a more affectionate, intimate, sexual person who enjoyed having fun, made friends, was social, wanted to do things together, and was someone I felt I could have important conversations with.

 

[culdeus]

Again, it's not just about the weight. There are so many issues at play here.

When I started this thread I was in a totally different place. The weight was a big issue, but I didn't realize what the real problems were and how they were all tied together.

We would still be in counseling right now if she was magically 70 lbs lighter. Unless losing those 70 lbs made her magically a more affectionate, intimate, sexual person who enjoyed having fun, made friends, was social, wanted to do things together, and was someone I felt I could have important conversations with.

Hate to tell you that libido drops substantially in overweight women that have gone through a weight loss. There are physiological reasons that women experience this effect and men experience the opposite effect.

 

[pats3in4]

Again, it's not just about the weight. There are so many issues at play here.

When I started this thread I was in a totally different place. The weight was a big issue, but I didn't realize what the real problems were and how they were all tied together.

We would still be in counseling right now if she was magically 70 lbs lighter. Unless losing those 70 lbs made her magically a more affectionate, intimate, sexual person who enjoyed having fun, made friends, was social, wanted to do things together, and was someone I felt I could have important conversations with.

In the therapist's office, I suggest expanding focus on all of the issues because the weight gain is part of the whole (it's the cause, it's the effect. it's correlated...I don't know). Your wife is obviously entrenched in her view that "you should love me no matter my body shape". The more that is harped on, the deeper she'll dig into that stance. Start getting the other issues out and maybe your wife will circle back on the weight gain on her own, discussing it as an issue.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

Did the therapist take any sort of position on the issue?

He really hasn't taken a stance on anything. He's talked about his goal of getting us to communicate. Honestly I don't think he's very good, but I'm not sure that matters.

What does your wife think of him?

 

[Godsbrother]

Again, it's not just about the weight. There are so many issues at play here.

When I started this thread I was in a totally different place. The weight was a big issue, but I didn't realize what the real problems were and how they were all tied together.

We would still be in counseling right now if she was magically 70 lbs lighter. Unless losing those 70 lbs made her magically a more affectionate, intimate, sexual person who enjoyed having fun, made friends, was social, wanted to do things together, and was someone I felt I could have important conversations with.

But other than all that she is perfect, right?

Serious question: was she always like the person you are describing here?

 

[Native]

Sounds like youve made your decision already. If youre still willing to give it one last shot, however, this is what Id do:

I would encourage her to try a quick, high-loss diet for a very SHORT period of time. Something like a low-carb, shake-based cleanse that loses 10-15 pounds in ~10 days. No it will not solve the underlying problem by itself but it may motivate her enough to continue with it afterward. She needs something to kick-start her weight loss. And once she sees the light, I would like to think that many of these other issues (eating right, sex, affection, health, friendships) will start to come back as well. Because as much as the weight is not the fundamental issue for her anymore, it may still be an underlying cause that creates the mental block that makes her act this way towards you.

If shes not willing to give you 10 days to satisfy this kind of request, then really there's nothing left for you to do. The nice thing about this is that its tangible and time-based. Either you do it or you dont. And you guys can even try it together.

Good luck buddy.

 

[TxBuckeye]

Did the therapist take any sort of position on the issue?

He really hasn't taken a stance on anything. He's talked about his goal of getting us to communicate. Honestly I don't think he's very good, but I'm not sure that matters.

What does your wife think of him?

My guess is, if his wife feels he is on her side, she loves him. If she thinks he is neutral or on his side, she probably hates him. Realize, whatever side he may take is irrelevant. It's what she perceives. So if he states that some of this is her doing, she'll hate him.

 

[Invaded?]

Again, it's not just about the weight. There are so many issues at play here.

When I started this thread I was in a totally different place. The weight was a big issue, but I didn't realize what the real problems were and how they were all tied together.

We would still be in counseling right now if she was magically 70 lbs lighter. Unless losing those 70 lbs made her magically a more affectionate, intimate, sexual person who enjoyed having fun, made friends, was social, wanted to do things together, and was someone I felt I could have important conversations with.

In the therapist's office, I suggest expanding focus on all of the issues because the weight gain is part of the whole (it's the cause, it's the effect. it's correlated...I don't know). Your wife is obviously entrenched in her view that "you should love me no matter my body shape". The more that is harped on, the digger she'll deep into that stance. Start getting the other issues out and maybe your wife will circle back on the weight gain on her own, discussing it as an issue.

We have. There has been very little focus on the weight thing. It just happened to come up a little in the last session.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

I would encourage her to try a quick, high-loss diet for a very SHORT period of time.

Those sorts of diets routinely fail. Even if she goes through with it, it's likely she'll just put the weight back on and they will have achieved nothing. I'm not sure this is a particularly good strategy. Not that I have a better one.

I agree that he's made his decision already -- I just think he needs to go through these steps to feel like he gave it his best shot.