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Name your Top Five NFL QB's of All Time (1 Viewer)

5. Young - Started the running QB trend, yet still could chuck the pigskin. Great leader
Liked your list, disagreed with this statement. The running QB had been around since forever, especially since forward passing was so hit-or-miss before the modern era. All of the original NFL QBs were running QBs who would only throw in extreme emergencies.If you meant he started the running QB trend in the modern era, I still disagree. John Elway broke into the league before Young and became a superstar before Young. Randall Cunningham came in the same season and was an even BETTER runner (I think his rushing totals in 1990 are a QB record). Roger Staubach far predates Young, too, and was always hailed for his improvisational skills. Still, the real father of the modern running QB was a guy you mentioned later, Fran Tarkenton. He and Elway are still the only guys in history to throw for 40,000 and rush for 3,000.

You could very easily make the arguement, however, that nobody was as good at it as Steve Young. I wouldn't argue THAT particular point one bit. Like I said, I have never seen any QB as dominant as Steve Young was. He could beat you in so many different ways.

 
Kurt FREAKING Warner?!?!?!?

He's not even top five amongst those who have played while he has, let alone ALL TIME.

Maybe he's on the Arizona Cardinals' top five, but all-NFL all-time? Laughable.
Do you have a list? :confused:

Kurt was one of the best QB's I've ever seen. He came out of no where to put up some of the best stats ever made... and he won a super bowl and multiple MVP awards.

His top 5 status is pretty much a lock.
So your list of the top five presidents in U.S. history would include George W Bush, Bill Clinton, George HW Bush, Ronald Reagan and Jimmy Carter. :rolleyes: Gimme a break.

Last season Daunte Culpepper threw for more yards, fewer interceptions, only two fewer touchdowns and had a higher rating than your boy Warner did in his "greatest season by a QB ever." Surely Culpepper should be a lock for top five, too. :rolleyes:

Here's a list for the over-twenty crowd:

1. Johnny Unitas

2. Joe Montana

3. Otto Graham

4. John Elway

5. Dan Marino

Get back to me when Warner has another seven or eight magical seasons.

 
Kurt FREAKING Warner?!?!?!?

He's not even top five amongst those who have played while he has, let alone ALL TIME.

Maybe he's on the Arizona Cardinals' top five, but all-NFL all-time?  Laughable.
Do you have a list? :confused:

Kurt was one of the best QB's I've ever seen. He came out of no where to put up some of the best stats ever made... and he won a super bowl and multiple MVP awards.

His top 5 status is pretty much a lock.
So your list of the top five presidents in U.S. history would include George W Bush, Bill Clinton, George HW Bush, Ronald Reagan and Jimmy Carter. :rolleyes: Gimme a break.

Last season Daunte Culpepper threw for more yards, fewer interceptions, only two fewer touchdowns and had a higher rating than your boy Warner did in his "greatest season by a QB ever." Surely Culpepper should be a lock for top five, too. :rolleyes:

Here's a list for the over-twenty crowd:

1. Johnny Unitas

2. Joe Montana

3. Otto Graham

4. John Elway

5. Dan Marino

Get back to me when Warner has another seven or eight magical seasons.
My list would look like this, with Baugh being placed where Otto is. Just outside: Graham, Staubach, Jurgensen, Young, Favre.The best pure passer I ever saw was Sonny J.

 
Kurt FREAKING Warner?!?!?!?

He's not even top five amongst those who have played while he has, let alone ALL TIME.

Maybe he's on the Arizona Cardinals' top five, but all-NFL all-time?  Laughable.
Do you have a list? :confused:

Kurt was one of the best QB's I've ever seen. He came out of no where to put up some of the best stats ever made... and he won a super bowl and multiple MVP awards.

His top 5 status is pretty much a lock.
So your list of the top five presidents in U.S. history would include George W Bush, Bill Clinton, George HW Bush, Ronald Reagan and Jimmy Carter. :rolleyes: Gimme a break.

Last season Daunte Culpepper threw for more yards, fewer interceptions, only two fewer touchdowns and had a higher rating than your boy Warner did in his "greatest season by a QB ever." Surely Culpepper should be a lock for top five, too. :rolleyes:

Here's a list for the over-twenty crowd:

1. Johnny Unitas

2. Joe Montana

3. Otto Graham

4. John Elway

5. Dan Marino

Get back to me when Warner has another seven or eight magical seasons.
Does anyone have a list of the best seasons compared to league averages?
 
I am noting that these are all players of the "modern era":1. Montana2. Elway3. Favre4. Brady5 a. Marino5 b. Manning

 
It's a shame that Brett Favre's lagacy has been tarnished by this season. Coming into the year, I'd bet that he was much higher on most lists.
Of the QB's I have seen play since the mid 80's, he did not make my top 5. He would probably be one of the next I would have listed. His constant poor playoff performances over the last five seasons do not help his cause.
Last season Daunte Culpepper threw for more yards, fewer interceptions, only two fewer touchdowns and had a higher rating than your boy Warner did in his "greatest season by a QB ever." Surely Culpepper should be a lock for top five, too. :rolleyes:
Did Culpepper's team win the Super Bowl last year? Did Culpepper win the regular season MVP award?

Did Culpepper win the Super Bowl MVP award?

The answer to all of these questions is no. Replace Culpepper with Warner in reference to 1999 and the answers are all yes. So, to compare Culpepper's 2004 season to Warner's 1999 season is ludicrous. You have to take playoff games into account when comparing seasons.

This is not meant to imply that I think Warner is one of the top QB's of all time. He is not. However, he did have one of the greatest three year stretches in the history of the league and that cannot be denied.

 
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Best QB is not the same as best passer.

1- Otto Graham

2- John Unitas

3- Joe Montana

4- Jim Kelly

5- John Elway

I very much wanted to include Tarkington and Young, but...
Any list that includes Kelly and not Marino is positively obscene.
 
1) Andre Ware2) Scott Mitchell3) Charlie Batch4) Mike McMahon5) Joey Harrington6) Jeff Garcia7) etc...Anyone denying the greatness of this list is a fool.

 
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1) Andre Ware

2) Scott Mitchell

3) Charlie Batch

4) Mike McMahon

5) Joey Harrington

6) Jeff Garcia

7) etc...

Anyone denying the greatness of this list is a fool.
Don't forget about:1) Chuck Long

2) Bob Gagliano

3) Rusty Hilger

4) Jeff Komlo

5) Eric Hipple

6) Erik Kramer

7) Gary Danielson

8) Greg Landry

And yes, each one of these 8 started led the Lions in passing for at least one full SEASON.

Where you have you gone Erik Kramer? Worst mistake the Lions ever made --getting rid of their only QB to win a playoff game in ~50 years.

 
Best QB is not the same as best passer.

1- Otto Graham

2- John Unitas

3- Joe Montana

4- Jim Kelly

5- John Elway

I very much wanted to include Tarkington and Young, but...
Any list that includes Kelly and not Marino is positively obscene.
From my recall, Kelly was much more successful as a QB than Marino. My memory is not perfect, but.. He's not a personal favorite of mine. Yet, I consider Kelly one of the very best QBs ever. He and Moon get the NO GLORY award.
 
Johnny Unitas-The man refused to lose. Not athletic, but you can tell who Favre learned a QB mentality from

Dan Marino-The quickest, most accurate release in the history of the game

Kenny Stabler-Southpaw that kept you on the edge of your seat EVERY week

Roger Staubach-He lost PT to serve in the Navy, came to the NFl and was one the best in the game before the end of his first season

Archie Manning-Yes the old man. What other QB could win the NFL MVP playing for the worst team in football!

Honorable Mention:

George Blanda-This old coot was the oldest starting QB ever. He won games as a kicker and QB. Read some Raiders lore to find out more.

 
1. Elway

2. Marino

3. Montana

4. Brady

5. Kelly

I only listed ones ive actually seen play

5 years from now, Palmer will be on the list. And Manning will still be crying over lack of protection. :fishing:

 
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As far as my favorites go

1. Aikman

2. Staubach

3. Fouts

4. Montana

5. Krieg

As far as talent go

1. Unitas

2. Montana

3. Elway

4. Marino

5. Brady (I am jumping ahead 10 years)

 
Kurt FREAKING Warner?!?!?!?

He's not even top five amongst those who have played while he has, let alone ALL TIME.

Maybe he's on the Arizona Cardinals' top five, but all-NFL all-time? Laughable.
I thought Warner at #4 was funny as well.
 
Kurt FREAKING Warner?!?!?!?

He's not even top five amongst those who have played while he has, let alone ALL TIME.

Maybe he's on the Arizona Cardinals' top five, but all-NFL all-time?  Laughable.
Do you have a list? :confused:

Kurt was one of the best QB's I've ever seen. He came out of no where to put up some of the best stats ever made... and he won a super bowl and multiple MVP awards.

His top 5 status is pretty much a lock.
Warner is not even a HOF
 
1. Dan Marino

2. Johnny Unitas...the fact I have him and Marino 1 and 2 ought to tell you the type of Qbs I like.

3. John Elway

4. Brett Favre

5. Joe Montana/Tom Brady
Favre doesn't belong on this list. He always had a great supporting cast.
WRONG! Go check out his supporting cast in the early and mid 90s prior to their two Super Bowls.
I have. It is overflowing with Pro-Bowlers.
But didn’t all great QB have good/all pros players playing with them.Montana- Rice, Taylor, Craig

Warner- Holt, Bruce, Faulk

Elway- Davis, Smith

just to name a few

 
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Amazing, 5 month spread from end of thread until today. Always interesting when someone starts an "All Time Greatest" list to see everyone's interpretation of it's measures. Great hot button topic for the offseason.

# 1 - Elway...every conceivable tool I look for in a QB. ( I am NOT a Bronco fan)

# 2 - Unitas...ditto Elway, not as mobile.

# 3 - Montana...not proto-typical, but had all the intangibles.

# 4 - Marino...best passing QB of all time...gotta respect that.

# 5 - this is where it gets tough for me.....Staubach....hated him with a passion, but every time he set foot on the field he defined competitor.

Simply awful to leave some of the others out, but I didn't make the rules...just play by them.

 
Anyone who voted Elway ahead of Montana is either a Denver fan, a moron, or both.
43. That's how many times Joe Montana's teammates went to the pro bowl in his first decade with the team.27. That's how many times John Elway's teammates went to the pro bowl in his first decade with the team.

8. That's how many times a SF Wide Receiver went to the pro bowl in Montana's first decade with the team.

0. That's how many times a Denver WR went to the pro bowl in Elway's first decade with the team.

7. That's how many times a SF Offensive Lineman went to the pro bowl in Montana's first decade with the team.

2. That's how many times a Denver OL went to the pro bowl in Elway's first decade with the team.

104. That's how many games SF won in Montana's first decade with the team.

98. That's how many games Denver won in Elway's first decade with the team.

4. That's how many superbowls Montana appeared in during his first decade with the team.

3. That's how many superbowls Denver appeared in during Elway's first decade with the team.

0. That's how many times Montana was named League MVP during that span.

1. That's how many times Elway was named league MVP during that span.

I think a very strong case could be made that, given the supporting cast, Elway's feats were far more impressive. Put Montana in Denver and he doesn't even MAKE the superbowl, in my opinion... but put Elway in San Fran, and they have no problem winning just as many, if not more. I mean, Montana was never once even considered the best player in the NFL, despite having such a strong supporting cast, including the G.O.A.T. catching balls from him (and if you don't think good WRs can make QBs look fantastic, allow me to point you to Daunte Culpepper 2004). John Elway didn't even have a pro-bowl caliber WR on his team until his THIRTEENTH SEASON.

I mean, we could speculate what Elway would have looked like with a great head coach and supporting talent. He was *FANTASTIC* in that situation in his last 3 years in the league. Absolutely phenominal, despite the fact that that was after his skills had already sharply deteriorated. If you gave him an entire decade of the kind of talent Montana had WHILE HE WAS IN HIS PRIME, he would have destroyed Montana's 4 superbowl rings.

But didn’t all great QB have good/all pros players playing with them.

Montana- Rice, Taylor, Craig

Warner- Holt, Bruce, Faulk

Elway- Davis, Smith

just to name a few
Rod Smith and Terrell Davis played with Elway during his 13th, 14th, 15th, and 16th seasons. Both were very raw their first season and weren't even that great until their second season (Davis) or 3rd season (Smith)... so John Elway played with all pros for 3 years. He did the OVERWHELMING bulk of his work during his first 12 seasons, while surrounded by remarkably average players.So no, not all great QBs had good players playing with them. Another example is Archie Manning, the only player to ever win MVP while playing on the worst team in the entire NFL.

 
I think a very strong case could be made that, given the supporting cast, Elway's feats were far more impressive. Put Montana in Denver and he doesn't even MAKE the superbowl, in my opinion... but put Elway in San Fran, and they have no problem winning just as many, if not more. I mean, Montana was never once even considered the best player in the NFL, despite having such a strong supporting cast, including the G.O.A.T. catching balls from him (and if you don't think good WRs can make QBs look fantastic, allow me to point you to Daunte Culpepper 2004). John Elway didn't even have a pro-bowl caliber WR on his team until his THIRTEENTH SEASON.
Montana won two Super Bowls before Rice arrived. His receivers for the first two wins? Dwight Clark (one 1000-yard season in his career) and Freddie Solomon (none). Leading rusher in 1981? Ricky Patton. (Who?) In 1984? Wendell Tyler. Elway's supporting cast on offense was at least as good as Montana's in those years, and in 1989 when the two met in the Super Bowl (and the Niners pasted the Broncos 55-10), Denver also had the #1 defense in the league.Elway had 10 years of utter mediocrity in a horribly weak AFC, and made the Super Bowl three times by default (it was him or Jim Kelly), to get whipped by a superior NFC QB and team. (Elway's career Super Bowl passing stats? 50% completions, 225 yards per game, 3 TD, 8 INT in 5 games). Then he finally got put together with a 2000-yard back and a top-5 defense and managed to win a Super Bowl (by throwing for 123 yards, 0 TD and 1 INT). Woo.

The most overrated player of all time.

 
1. Joe Montana

2. Joe Namath

3. Dan Marino

4. Kurt Warner

5. John Elway
Order can be negotiatedDan Marino

Steve Young

Joe Montana

John Unitas

John Elway

I want to edit mine to show Favre ahead of Elway (until I review more stats)

Joe Namath shouldn't even be close to the top 5. The Steve Young Montana debate is an interesting one. I see Marino as clearly better than Elway in my eyes. I know everyone loves titles and that is something that may sway the scales if close, but Elway was Randall Cunningham for the early part of his career and had a much better supporting cast (O and D) than Marino. Unitas is on the list based on what people I respect have said.

 
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I think a very strong case could be made that, given the supporting cast, Elway's feats were far more impressive. Put Montana in Denver and he doesn't even MAKE the superbowl, in my opinion... but put Elway in San Fran, and they have no problem winning just as many, if not more. I mean, Montana was never once even considered the best player in the NFL, despite having such a strong supporting cast, including the G.O.A.T. catching balls from him (and if you don't think good WRs can make QBs look fantastic, allow me to point you to Daunte Culpepper 2004). John Elway didn't even have a pro-bowl caliber WR on his team until his THIRTEENTH SEASON.
I know you are comparing Montana to Elway here, but I disagree on many fronts. Elway's accuracy was not goo enough to be in any top 4. My 5 had Elway 5 but he would be tiered below the top 4. I would agree that Montana had more talent around him, but at the end of his career he showed he was a master at the game winning drive in KC.That being said Marino, by far, had the worst supporting cast as he never had a good RB and his defenses were not even close to the niners or Broncos. If Marino had a defense people would be only debating who was #2. The ONE time Marino had a decent D he went to the SB only to see Montana score TD's on their 1st two possessions before Marino even got going.
 
It's a shame that Brett Favre's lagacy has been tarnished by this season. Coming into the year, I'd bet that he was much higher on most lists.
Of the QB's I have seen play since the mid 80's, he did not make my top 5. He would probably be one of the next I would have listed. His constant poor playoff performances over the last five seasons do not help his cause.
Last season Daunte Culpepper threw for more yards, fewer interceptions, only two fewer touchdowns and had a higher rating than your boy Warner did in his "greatest season by a QB ever."  Surely Culpepper should be a lock for top five, too. :rolleyes:
Did Culpepper's team win the Super Bowl last year? Did Culpepper win the regular season MVP award?

Did Culpepper win the Super Bowl MVP award?

The answer to all of these questions is no. Replace Culpepper with Warner in reference to 1999 and the answers are all yes. So, to compare Culpepper's 2004 season to Warner's 1999 season is ludicrous. You have to take playoff games into account when comparing seasons.

This is not meant to imply that I think Warner is one of the top QB's of all time. He is not. However, he did have one of the greatest three year stretches in the history of the league and that cannot be denied.
GR, why can't the best player be on a lesser team and still be better than the guy who won the SB? This is a pet peeve of mine. Bradshaw wasn't a very good QB, but his team was BY FAR the best team to ever play the game. They had all pro guys all over both lines and he was surrounded by Harris, Stallworth and Swan. Give me a break. Ditto Staubach.
 
1. Montana

2. Unitas

3. Graham

4. Baugh

5. Elway
Like this list: would replace Elway with a guy named Bobby Layne. Not only was he winner but could out fight and out drink any line man on either side of the ball. If you have not read about this QB when he was with the Lions and later the Steelers. Below is part from the Hall of Fame. And, yes, even saw Sammy Baugh Play.Bobby Layne, during his 15 pro football seasons, was a free-spirited All-NFL caliber quarterback who did well statistically but was exceptional in the intangibles – leadership, determination, competitiveness, and guts.

It is very hard to pick any top list because of our personal likes. :thumbup:

 
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I think a very strong case could be made that, given the supporting cast, Elway's feats were far more impressive. Put Montana in Denver and he doesn't even MAKE the superbowl, in my opinion... but put Elway in San Fran, and they have no problem winning just as many, if not more. I mean, Montana was never once even considered the best player in the NFL, despite having such a strong supporting cast, including the G.O.A.T. catching balls from him (and if you don't think good WRs can make QBs look fantastic, allow me to point you to Daunte Culpepper 2004). John Elway didn't even have a pro-bowl caliber WR on his team until his THIRTEENTH SEASON.
Montana won back-to-back AP MVP awards in 1989-1990. And he did win two Super Bowls before Jerry Rice joined the team though I suppose even Dwight Clark was still better than anybody Elway had to throw to before Rod Smith came along. As for those who don't believe they can vote for QB's they've never seen play, if the question was "Name your Top Five U.S. Presidents of All Time", would you only vote for presidents you've seen president(ing)?

 
not necessarily in any particular order

Joe Montana

Tom Brady

Joe Namath

John Elway

Johnny Unitas

next group would include

Terry Bradshaw

Roger Staubach

Brett Favre

 
I know you are comparing Montana to Elway here, but I disagree on many fronts. Elway's accuracy was not goo enough to be in any top 4. My 5 had Elway 5 but he would be tiered below the top 4. I would agree that Montana had more talent around him, but at the end of his career he showed he was a master at the game winning drive in KC.

That being said Marino, by far, had the worst supporting cast as he never had a good RB and his defenses were not even close to the niners or Broncos. If Marino had a defense people would be only debating who was #2. The ONE time Marino had a decent D he went to the SB only to see Montana score TD's on their 1st two possessions before Marino even got going.
I don't see why accuracy is such a be-all end-all statistic for QBs. System and supporting cast both have a HUGE impact on QB accuracy.Here's a hypothetical situation for you. Let's say QBA completes 100% of his short passes (under 10 yards) and 50% of his long passes (over 10 yards). QBB completes 80% of his short passes (under 10 yards) and 10% of his long passes (over 10 yards). I'm sure we'll agree that QBA is drastically more accurate than QBB on all of the throws.

Now, let's say that QBA throws 100 short passes and 400 long passes. He winds up with 300 completions for a 60% completion rate. QBB throws 100 long passes and 400 short passes. He winds up with 330 completions for a 66% completion rate.

I think Elway was plenty accurate. Not laser-accurate like Montana, Marino, and Favre, but still a very accurate QB... and he possessed a lot of tools that none of those guys had. Only Favre could match his arm strength. He could make a TON of throws that Marino or Montana simply couldn't make. Nobody on that list matched his improvisational ability, and only Montana even APPROACHED his clutch performance. Until Steve Young came along, nobody in the NFL was as dangerous as John Elway was. As for Young... he'd be the #1 QB on my list, if he'd only had a longer prime. Yeah, I know, that wasn't his fault. Very unfair, but that's how it is.

Also, I could easily debate the worst supporting cast arguement. First off, adding an RB would have boosted Marinos efficiency most likely, but would have cut his attempts enough that I'm convinced that he would have put up pretty similar numbers. I mean, the guy had TWELVE SEASONS where he was in the top 5 in the NFL in pass attempts. That's ABSURD. Second off, though... and here's the biggie... for the vast majority of his career, Marino was throwing to Mark Clayton and Mark Duper, both pro bowlers. If you don't think that throwing to not one but TWO PRO BOWL WRS made Marino look a lot better, then you're kidding yourself.

Montana won back-to-back AP MVP awards in 1989-1990. And he did win two Super Bowls before Jerry Rice joined the team though I suppose even Dwight Clark was still better than anybody Elway had to throw to before Rod Smith came along.
I was under the impression from Montana's HoF page (which lists all awards won) that Montana never won a single league MVP award.
 
I know you are comparing Montana to Elway here, but I disagree on many fronts.  Elway's accuracy was not goo enough to be in any top 4.  My 5 had Elway 5 but he would be tiered below the top 4.  I would agree that Montana had more talent around him, but at the end of his career he showed he was a master at the game winning drive in KC.

That being said Marino, by far, had the worst supporting cast as he never had a good RB and his defenses were not even close to the niners or Broncos.  If Marino had a defense people would be only debating who was #2.  The ONE time Marino had a decent D he went to the SB only to see Montana score TD's on their 1st two possessions before Marino even got going.
I don't see why accuracy is such a be-all end-all statistic for QBs. System and supporting cast both have a HUGE impact on QB accuracy.Here's a hypothetical situation for you. Let's say QBA completes 100% of his short passes (under 10 yards) and 50% of his long passes (over 10 yards). QBB completes 80% of his short passes (under 10 yards) and 10% of his long passes (over 10 yards). I'm sure we'll agree that QBA is drastically more accurate than QBB on all of the throws.

Now, let's say that QBA throws 100 short passes and 400 long passes. He winds up with 300 completions for a 60% completion rate. QBB throws 100 long passes and 400 short passes. He winds up with 330 completions for a 66% completion rate.

I think Elway was plenty accurate. Not laser-accurate like Montana, Marino, and Favre, but still a very accurate QB... and he possessed a lot of tools that none of those guys had. Only Favre could match his arm strength. He could make a TON of throws that Marino or Montana simply couldn't make. Nobody on that list matched his improvisational ability, and only Montana even APPROACHED his clutch performance. Until Steve Young came along, nobody in the NFL was as dangerous as John Elway was. As for Young... he'd be the #1 QB on my list, if he'd only had a longer prime. Yeah, I know, that wasn't his fault. Very unfair, but that's how it is.

Also, I could easily debate the worst supporting cast arguement. First off, adding an RB would have boosted Marinos efficiency most likely, but would have cut his attempts enough that I'm convinced that he would have put up pretty similar numbers. I mean, the guy had TWELVE SEASONS where he was in the top 5 in the NFL in pass attempts. That's ABSURD. Second off, though... and here's the biggie... for the vast majority of his career, Marino was throwing to Mark Clayton and Mark Duper, both pro bowlers. If you don't think that throwing to not one but TWO PRO BOWL WRS made Marino look a lot better, then you're kidding yourself.

Montana won back-to-back AP MVP awards in 1989-1990. And he did win two Super Bowls before Jerry Rice joined the team though I suppose even Dwight Clark was still better than anybody Elway had to throw to before Rod Smith came along. 
I was under the impression from Montana's HoF page (which lists all awards won) that Montana never won a single league MVP award.
So in short, you think Elway was the man, and everybody else has faults.The next time you compair Elway to Montana, don't forget to compair Super Bowl wins instead of how many times they got there in a decade.

Montana

Elway

Unitus

Roger the Dodger

I think I may have to go Brady here. He isn't finished, but he is just amazing considering the talent they don't have on offense.

I don't consider Marino top 5 because, while he did have the quickest release and was a GREAT passer, he had no touch. His screen/short passes were all 700 mph and way to hard for the scrubs the Phins were putting out to catch the ball. Top 10, but good enough to explain why he wasn't in my top 5.

 
Anyone without a decent knowledge of and respect for history has no business commenting on the best of anything "all-time". The lists with no one who played before 1979 should all be thrown out.

1. Otto Graham

2. Johnny U.

3. Joe Montana

4. Sammy Baugh

5. John Elway

 
Montana won two Super Bowls before Rice arrived. His receivers for the first two wins? Dwight Clark (one 1000-yard season in his career) and Freddie Solomon (none). Leading rusher in 1981? Ricky Patton. (Who?) In 1984? Wendell Tyler. Elway's supporting cast on offense was at least as good as Montana's in those years,
1984 was only Elway's 2nd year in the league.
Elway's supporting cast on offense was at least as good as Montana's in those years, and in 1989 when the two met in the Super Bowl (and the Niners pasted the Broncos 55-10),
What? You are saying Elway had as good a supporting cast in '89 as Montana did? Montana had Rice, Craig and Taylor, who were far better than the guys Elway had on his offense.
Elway had 10 years of utter mediocrity in a horribly weak AFC, and made the Super Bowl three times by default (it was him or Jim Kelly), to get whipped by a superior NFC QB and team.
Him or Kelly? That doesn't make sense. Kelly did not make the Super Bowl until the 90's, until Elway had already been to three. Made it by default? That might be the stupidest comment in this thread. No team makes the Super Bowl by default.

(Elway's career Super Bowl passing stats? 50% completions, 225 yards per game, 3 TD, 8 INT in 5 games). Then he finally got put together with a 2000-yard back and a top-5 defense and managed to win a Super Bowl (by throwing for 123 yards, 0 TD and 1 INT). Woo.
Denver did not have a top 5 defense when they won the Super Bowl following the '97 season, nor did they following the '98 season. I also noticed you did not mention Elway's MVP-winning performance in Super Bowl XXXIII, but you had no problem mentioning his performance in all of the other Super Bowl's. That shows you have an agenda and are letting that dictate your actions and opinions in this thread.

Keep in mind, too, that in 2 of his 3 Super Bowl losses, Elway's Broncos were losing by a combined 62-13, so you try putting up good numbers coming back against arguably better teams. Face it, those Broncos teams in the 80's would have never even sniffed the Super Bowl without Elway and everyone knows it, so instead of knocking him for not playing that great in games where his team was overmatched, why not give him credit for getting his team that far.

 
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Keep in mind, too, that in 2 of his 3 Super Bowl losses, Elway's Broncos were losing by a combined 62-13, so you try putting up good numbers coming back against arguably better teams. Face it, those Broncos teams in the 80's would have never even sniffed the Super Bowl without Elway and everyone knows it, so instead of knocking him for not playing that great in games where his team was overmatched, why not give him credit for getting his team that far.
And of course Elway's 5 INTs in those two games had nothing to do with his teams being behind. I don't care what your supporting cast is, I don't care what else is happening on the field, if you are among the best QBs of all time, you have to do better than 50% completions, 3 TDs and 8 INTs in 5 Super Bowl games. The NFC won, what, 15 Super Bowls in a row? Getting to the Super Bowl out of the AFC at that point was simply not impressive.

 
Keep in mind, too, that in 2 of his 3 Super Bowl losses, Elway's Broncos were losing by a combined 62-13, so you try putting up good numbers coming back against arguably better teams. Face it, those Broncos teams in the 80's would have never even sniffed the Super Bowl without Elway and everyone knows it, so instead of knocking him for not playing that great in games where his team was overmatched, why not give him credit for getting his team that far.
And of course Elway's 5 INTs in those two games had nothing to do with his teams being behind. I don't care what your supporting cast is, I don't care what else is happening on the field, if you are among the best QBs of all time, you have to do better than 50% completions, 3 TDs and 8 INTs in 5 Super Bowl games. The NFC won, what, 15 Super Bowls in a row? Getting to the Super Bowl out of the AFC at that point was simply not impressive.
First off, it would be helpful for you to list your own choices for top 5 before talking smack about someone else's. Or it is just easier to just trash the opinions of others without actually having to give your own?Second of all, I think perhaps you should focus on Elway's numbers in all playoff games, not just Super Bowl's. Playoff games are big games, too. It seems like you are suggesting that Elway was a bad game big game QB, while ignoring the fact that he was huge in countless playoff games and big games in the regular season. You do not have as many 4th quarter comebacks as he did without being a big game QB. You can keep focusing solely on his SB stats all you want, but it is not that simple.

Lastly, if you think not getting to the Super Bowl for 15 years straight in the Super Bowl was not impressive, then you are clueless. What if Scott Norwood had made that kick against the Giants? The NFC's run of dominance would have twice as short, so would your logic still apply there, then?

 
First off, it would be helpful for you to list your own choices for top 5 before talking smack about someone else's. Or it is just easier to just trash the opinions of others without actually having to give your own?

Second of all, I think perhaps you should focus on Elway's numbers in all playoff games, not just Super Bowl's. Playoff games are big games, too. It seems like you are suggesting that Elway was a bad game big game QB, while ignoring the fact that he was huge in countless playoff games and big games in the regular season. You do not have as many 4th quarter comebacks as he did without being a big game QB. You can keep focusing solely on his SB stats all you want, but it is not that simple.

Lastly, if you think not getting to the Super Bowl for 15 years straight in the Super Bowl was not impressive, then you are clueless. What if Scott Norwood had made that kick against the Giants? The NFC's run of dominance would have twice as short, so would your logic still apply there, then?
Well, I think such lists are silly in general. I think a top-2 is fairly easy:Montana

Unitas

After that it gets blurry. You've got Favre, Young, and Marino near the top, with Manning and Brady knocking on the door, and a bunch of older players like Staubach, Starr, and Bradshaw to consider that are hard to judge each other against. The two above clearly were separated from their peers.

Fourth quarter comebacks are almost entirely a function of how likely you are to be behind in the fourth quarter. Jake Plummer has more fourth-quarter comebacks on a per game basis than John Elway, and even more if you consider them as a function of total wins. It's a meaningless stat. (Oh, and by the way, Jake Plummer is also breaking all of Elway's Denver season records. If your records are being broken by Jake Plummer, you're not one of the best of all time).

Norwood had not made a 46+ yard field goal the entire year, so it's not like Buffalo could really be said to have a good chance to win the game on that kick. And even if Buffalo had won that game, the NFC "only" winning 14 out of 15 Super Bowls is still complete dominance, in the context of the NFL.

Elway's playoff stats were against the pathetically weak AFC. And even so, if you consider all of his playoff and Super Bowl stats together, he completed 54.6% of his passes with 27 TD and 21 INT in 17 games. Hardly the stuff of legend. Montana's playoff stats? 63.3% completions, 44 TD, 21 INT in 19 games. Oh, and four Super Bowl wins in four tries.

 
Well, I think such lists are silly in general. I think a top-2 is fairly easy:

Montana

Unitas

After that it gets blurry. You've got Favre, Young, and Marino near the top, with Manning and Brady knocking on the door, and a bunch of older players like Staubach, Starr, and Bradshaw to consider that are hard to judge each other against. The two above clearly were separated from their peers.

Fourth quarter comebacks are almost entirely a function of how likely you are to be behind in the fourth quarter. Jake Plummer has more fourth-quarter comebacks on a per game basis than John Elway, and even more if you consider them as a function of total wins. It's a meaningless stat. (Oh, and by the way, Jake Plummer is also breaking all of Elway's Denver season records. If your records are being broken by Jake Plummer, you're not one of the best of all time).

Norwood had not made a 46+ yard field goal the entire year, so it's not like Buffalo could really be said to have a good chance to win the game on that kick. And even if Buffalo had won that game, the NFC "only" winning 14 out of 15 Super Bowls is still complete dominance, in the context of the NFL.

Elway's playoff stats were against the pathetically weak AFC. And even so, if you consider all of his playoff and Super Bowl stats together, he completed 54.6% of his passes with 27 TD and 21 INT in 17 games. Hardly the stuff of legend. Montana's playoff stats? 63.3% completions, 44 TD, 21 INT in 19 games. Oh, and four Super Bowl wins in four tries.
:lmao: How can you criticize Elway for not having great numbers in the Super Bowl, while putting Marino and Manning up there? Marino could only get to one Super Bowl despite playing in the SAME CONFERENCE as Elway and despite almost always having better offensive weapons (up until the mid 90's). And Marino's playoff numbers are no better than Elway's. His TD-to-INT ratio was +8 in the playoffs. Elway's was +6. And that despite always playing in a pass-happy offense. Elway was stuck in a conservative offense until the last four years of his career. And let us not forget Elway's rushing numbers, as well. If you factor those in, Marino has one more combined TD, three more INT's, four less Super Bowl appearances and no Super Bowl wins. Not to mention that Marino did not exactly light it up in the SB he appeared in either (1 TD and 2 INT's).

Manning's repeated playoff failings are well-documented, so there is no point in me rehashing them. When he actually gets to a Super Bowl (despite having a much better supporting cast than Elway, Marino, Brady or Favre have ever had), let me know and we can then include him in the discussion.

As for Plummer breaking records, it is common knowledge that passing numbers in general are higher and more gaudy than they were 10 or 20 years ago, so that is a silly comparison. Besides, what records has he actually broken? Please tell me.

Regarding 4th quarter comebacks, I guess Favre, Brady and Montana do not deserve any kudos for their many comebacks, either, eh?

And if you are going to make a sweeping statement like, "I don't care what your supporting cast is, I don't care what else is happening on the field, if you are among the best QBs of all time, you have to do better than 50% completions, 3 TDs and 8 INTs in 5 Super Bowl games,", then can I say that if you are among the best QB's of all time you have to get to more than one Super Bowl (See: Marino)? Or at least one in Manning's case?

 
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