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Nazis at Newport Harbor High School (in Orange County) (1 Viewer)

rockaction

Footballguy
Rarely do I do this, but it seems like this is hardly worthy of a thread. It's a few high school kids in CA doing dumb, racist stuff. 

This happened at my high school in CT. I knew former skinheads. Kids are ####### racist everywhere. This has nothing to do with politics, it has to do with hate and high school.  

 

Shula-holic

Footballguy
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ocregister.com/2019/03/03/students-seen-in-photo-on-social-media-flashing-nazi-salute-around-swastika-formed-with-cups/amp/

Just goes to show that it’s not a southern thing. Racists are just as prevalent in my home of Orange County, California. 
These people displaying Nazi symbols and all is something I never saw in the South.  I'm 44 and grew up in a small town.  I knew racist people but it never manifested itself in that form. As a kid you'd see people displaying the Confederate flag pretty frequently, but it wasn't thought of by them so much as a racial thing.  It may be moreso now.  I'm sure the Confederate flag is shown way more or almost exclusively in the South. I wouldn't think Nazi symbols would be more here than anywhere else.  But given all the WWII vets and family members that were around during my school years it would have been beyond what anyone would have done openly.  I honestly have never seen anyone display a swastika to this day and lived in the South my whole life.

 

rockaction

Footballguy
These people displaying Nazi symbols and all is something I never saw in the South.  I'm 44 and grew up in a small town.  I knew racist people but it never manifested itself in that form. As a kid you'd see people displaying the Confederate flag pretty frequently, but it wasn't thought of by them so much as a racial thing.  It may be moreso now.  I'm sure the Confederate flag is shown way more or almost exclusively in the South. I wouldn't think Nazi symbols would be more here than anywhere else.  But given all the WWII vets and family members that were around during my school years it would have been beyond what anyone would have done openly.  I honestly have never seen anyone display a swastika to this day and lived in the South my whole life.
I've spent some time in the South. So much less racist than the kids I knew from rural areas up North, at least in terms of being openly racist.  

 

SaintsInDome2006

Footballguy
The knock on the South was unnecessary.

What these idiot kids did is a bigger issue but you probably foresaw your comment would cloud  a well meaning OP.

 

rockaction

Footballguy
You started a thread devoted to obscure examples of fake hate crimes, and now you're complaining that a thread about actual Nazi sympathizers isn't worthy of a discussion topic?
Those were adults and it had to do with a microcosmic element of the problems involving hate crimes and prosecution and evidentiary markers. 

This is just a posting about stupid kids doing stupid racist stuff. If we start a thread every time a high school kid acts racist, we'll have five pages of that garbage.  

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Normally I'm more than acquiescent regarding my postings, headlines, opinions, etc. 

This is not one of those times. The threads aren't comparable.  

 
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timschochet

Footballguy
The knock on the South was unnecessary.

What these idiot kids did is a bigger issue but you probably foresaw your comment would cloud  a well meaning OP.
It wasn’t meant to be a knock on the south; exactly the opposite. My point is that people think this is more prevalent in the south (there were a lot of posts in the Northam thread that expressed that POV) and its just not so. 

 

Henry Ford

Footballguy
Rarely do I do this, but it seems like this is hardly worthy of a thread. It's a few high school kids in CA doing dumb, racist stuff. 

This happened at my high school in CT. I knew former skinheads. Kids are ####### racist everywhere. This has nothing to do with politics, it has to do with hate and high school.  
You started a thread about someone thinking pollen was a spray painted hate crime. 

 

rockaction

Footballguy
No, I’ve read it now.  

You started a thread about someone thinking pollen was a hate crime. 
Yes, with a broader point that dealt with the problem of evidence and intent regarding official recognition of what hate crimes are, how they should be reported, etc. 

Tim seems to want us to understand that high school racism doesn't just happen in the South. 

Great. Thanks.  

 

Henry Ford

Footballguy
Yes, with a broader point that dealt with the problem of evidence and intent regarding official recognition of what hate crimes are, how they should be reported, etc. 

Tim seems to want us to understand that high school racism doesn't just happen in the South. 

Great. Thanks.  
Orange County actually has a ton of Nazis.  There’s a reason American History X was set just north of there. 

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Orange County actually has a ton of Nazis.  There’s a reason American History X was set just north of there. 
The OC is far right, and its poorer areas probably reflect the undesirable marriage of the right with its more extreme elements. 

I live in a conservative area in SoCal and have seen swastikas tattooed on shirtless people at gas stations. I'm not sure it's worthy of starting a thread, though, so I dumped my most recent incidence of this neat little cultural phenomenon in the Sober February thread.  

Whatever, I'm hardly upset with tim for starting the thread, just pointing it out and sort of rolling my eyes. I defend squis's threads all the time as necessary and valid. This one, in my judgment, isn't worthy of a thread. 

Doesn't mean I don't like tim nor am I unwilling to have a discussion about SoCal and Nazis and the weird nexus thereof, just sort of caffeinated and bored right now, so I let it fly. Perhaps discretion would have been better.  

 
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Sheriff Bart

Footballguy
Nazis at Newport Harbor High School is the name of my Lost Boys fan fiction site. 

 
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rockaction

Footballguy
16-17 year olds are tried as adults all the time.
Yeah, but this is non-violent, nor does it implicate property concerns. It's stupid #### that young people often do and it takes on a different dimension than any sort of property or violent crime. 

I'm not asking anybody not to judge the kids, this is saying that kids all over are freaking stupid about ethnicity, racism, and sexism at that age and transgressions like this aren't really news, per se.

I don't know. I don't feel that strongly about what I said about the thread. It was an off-handed comment. I still think it's the correct sentiment, but I'm not board cop, so...

 
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parasaurolophus

Footballguy
Pretty sure this first hit the web in 2012 out of florida. This game isn't new. There are examples of it hitting the press all over the country. There are old reddit threads, articles, tweets, etc.

Not justifying it, simply pointing out that this isnt new. What is new is now that every time one of these events happen people rush to the innerwebs to blame our current political climate.

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Pretty sure this first hit the web in 2012 out of florida. This game isn't new. There are examples of it hitting the press all over the country. There are old reddit threads, articles, tweets, etc.

Not justifying it, simply pointing out that this isnt new. What is new is now that every time one of these events happen people rush to the innerwebs to blame our current political climate.
Argh. Where else, amirite?  

No, yeah. This has been going on forever. The italicized is a good point and I can't help but wonder if the rise in reporting these incidents and their position in papers, news, the internet, etc., isn't because of a Journolist-esque or personal resolution to place these stories in more accessible parts of the news as sort of evidence of a particular climate.  

 

parasaurolophus

Footballguy
Argh. Where else, amirite?  

No, yeah. This has been going on forever. The italicized is a good point and I can't help but wonder if the rise in reporting these incidents and their position in papers, news, the internet, etc., isn't because of a Journolist-esque or personal resolution to place these stories in more accessible parts of the news as sort of evidence of a particular climate.  
This is absolutely the motivation for why many of these stories now make national news and before did not. 

I don't have an issue with them hitting the news as long as it is consistent and fully presented and that it doesn't lead to worse behavior, like justifying retaliation. 

 

Henry Ford

Footballguy
Pretty sure this first hit the web in 2012 out of florida. This game isn't new. There are examples of it hitting the press all over the country. There are old reddit threads, articles, tweets, etc.

Not justifying it, simply pointing out that this isnt new. What is new is now that every time one of these events happen people rush to the innerwebs to blame our current political climate.
One of the President’s first acts in office was to cancel funding for a task force working against recruiting children into right wing terrorist groups. 

I think it’s reasonable to consider that task force may have been doing a job that is not being done by anyone now. 

 

bigbottom

I put on my robe and wizard hat
I've spent some time in the South. So much less racist than the kids I knew from rural areas up North, at least in terms of being openly racist.  
My neighborhood in Texas is infinitely more diverse than my neighborhood was in Orange County, CA.

 

bigbottom

I put on my robe and wizard hat
Argh. Where else, amirite?  

No, yeah. This has been going on forever. The italicized is a good point and I can't help but wonder if the rise in reporting these incidents and their position in papers, news, the internet, etc., isn't because of a Journolist-esque or personal resolution to place these stories in more accessible parts of the news as sort of evidence of a particular climate.  
I have quite a few Jewish friends on Facebook from the Newport Beach, Newport Coast, Irvine area, and the Snapchat photos have been making the rounds on FB today and people are PISSED. Lots of calls to school administration demanding action, lots of publicity on social media. This isn’t the case of the media manufacturing a story.  The story is very much there to be covered. 

Edit to add:  Screenshots of chats from some of the attendees were also posted. Some pretty egregious, hateful stuff. Now some people are calling for the kids to be expelled and their college admissions revoked. The situation is very heated. 

 
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bigbottom

I put on my robe and wizard hat
This is absolutely the motivation for why many of these stories now make national news and before did not. 

I don't have an issue with them hitting the news as long as it is consistent and fully presented and that it doesn't lead to worse behavior, like justifying retaliation. 
The news article Tim posted was from the local newspaper - the OC Register. I wouldn’t be surprised, though, if it does make national news within the next 24 hours. 

 

SWC

Bromigo
Argh. Where else, amirite?  

No, yeah. This has been going on forever. The italicized is a good point and I can't help but wonder if the rise in reporting these incidents and their position in papers, news, the internet, etc., isn't because of a Journolist-esque or personal resolution to place these stories in more accessible parts of the news as sort of evidence of a particular climate.  
I have quite a few Jewish friends on Facebook from the Newport Beach, Newport Coast, Irvine area, and the Snapchat photos have been making the rounds on FB today and people are PISSED. Lots of calls to school administration demanding action, lots of publicity on social media. This isn’t the case of the media manufacturing a story.  The story is very much there to be covered. 

Edit to add:  Screenshots of chats from some of the attendees were also posted. Some pretty egregious, hateful stuff. Now some people are calling for the kids to be expelled and their college admissions revoked. The situation is very heated. 

Edited 6 hours ago by bigbottom
listen rockaction said this is not a story so bam brohan its not a story sorry you will just have to live with it take that to the bank bromigo

 

timschochet

Footballguy
In response to rockaction and Para: 

i think the question of whether or not our current political climate is causing more of these type of incidents is very much alive. I lean towards the answer being yes, which is part of the reason I started the thread (not the entire reason.) 

I realize that many conservatives jumped on the Jussie Smollett story as “proof” that this sort of thing is being way exaggerated as a means to criticize President Trump’s rhetoric. I don’t think it’s exaggerated. 

 

rockaction

Footballguy
listen rockaction said this is not a story so bam brohan its not a story sorry you will just have to live with it take that to the bank bromigo
I never said it wasn't a story, just that it wasn't thread worthy necessarily. Like homelessness, though, it seems like there's a narrative the media strives to create. 

As far as whether I'm correct? Brohan/no man/infallible

 

rockaction

Footballguy
In response to rockaction and Para: 

i think the question of whether or not our current political climate is causing more of these type of incidents is very much alive. I lean towards the answer being yes, which is part of the reason I started the thread (not the entire reason.) 

I realize that many conservatives jumped on the Jussie Smollett story as “proof” that this sort of thing is being way exaggerated as a means to criticize President Trump’s rhetoric. I don’t think it’s exaggerated. 
Yeah, I knew that. Even opaquely, you're like a piñata around kids without blindfolds on. 

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Of course you started it for that reason. You're a pearl-clutching, centrist Democrat. Your posting style is like Opie's or Bozeman Bruiser's. There's always an obvious agenda, obvious to everyone but the person trying to hide it. 

 

timschochet

Footballguy
Of course you started it for that reason. You're a pearl-clutching, centrist Democrat. Your posting style is like Opie's or Bozeman Bruiser's. There's always an obvious agenda, obvious to everyone but the person trying to hide it. 
So obvious to everyone but me? 

 

rockaction

Footballguy
So obvious to everyone but me? 
Maybe. Either way, I knew we were going to head down this route about Trump, media narrative, and climate as soon as you posted. There was no way around it. You were steering it there, and it went there. 

*sighs*

Oh well.  Some people think #MAGA is a racist act in and of itself and there's really no way to have a discussion when the media, elites on both sides, and all the players involved have so polarized everything. 

 

sho nuff

Footballguy
Of course you started it for that reason. You're a pearl-clutching, centrist Democrat. Your posting style is like Opie's or Bozeman Bruiser's. There's always an obvious agenda, obvious to everyone but the person trying to hide it. 
Yeah. Tim is nothing like those two.

 

parasaurolophus

Footballguy
Is trump the reason for why the person that outed this group uses homophobic slurs? Just need to know how far reaching his effect is. 

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Yeah. Tim is nothing like those two.
Yeah, if you have an IQ over 90, he is, just in centrist Democrat form.  You know exactly where the thread is headed and what agenda he's trying to get over on you while thinking you to be unwittingly playing along. But at this point, everybody knows it.  

 

timschochet

Footballguy
Maybe. Either way, I knew we were going to head down this route about Trump, media narrative, and climate as soon as you posted. There was no way around it. You were steering it there, and it went there. 

*sighs*

Oh well.  Some people think #MAGA is a racist act in and of itself and there's really no way to have a discussion when the media, elites on both sides, and all the players involved have so polarized everything. 
Why can’t we have a discussion? We’re pretty smart people in this forum. If I think MAGA is racist I’d better be able to explain why, and if you disagree you’d better be able to explain why. Neither of us need be dependent on the media. 

 

rockaction

Footballguy
"Gee. Let me post this story about OC high school Nazis because for the eightieth time, I want to talk about Trump and the modern climate of hate he's created. Maybe then I'll get a convert or somebody will finally agree with me. Gee, wouldn't that be swell"  

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Why can’t we have a discussion? We’re pretty smart people in this forum. If I think MAGA is racist I’d better be able to explain why, and if you disagree you’d better be able to explain why. Neither of us need be dependent on the media. 
Probably because we've had the discussion eighty freaking times. Here's my take, again: Trump has done nothing to help society's inexorable march towards a more tolerant, forgiving society. He's a buffoon who says divisive things often and has a New York rudeness that's almost unparalleled in modern politics. But there is no great increase in hate crimes or hatred in general. It's always been there, it's just that it sticks out more because it's so:

  1. Rare - sticks out like a sore thumb 
  2. Overwhelmingly offensive to the majority
  3. Captured more easily by people with constant cameras in their pockets
  4. Covered by media outlets looking to push a sensationalist narrative
There is nothing about #MAGA that's inherently racist, IMO. I don't care what Cohen says or what people speculate. There's always been hate, always will be hate, but these days it sticks out because of the aforementioned factors and pearl clutchers that can't handle frank talk about certain issues. 

There. There's your discussion. I'm not changing my mind.   

 

rockaction

Footballguy
By the way, despite my criticism, I hope you know that I appreciate your posts and thoughts writ large. We all have our annoying tendencies. I have mine.  

 

timschochet

Footballguy
"Gee. Let me post this story about OC high school Nazis because for the eightieth time, I want to talk about Trump and the modern climate of hate he's created. Maybe then I'll get a convert or somebody will finally agree with me. Gee, wouldn't that be swell"  
I don’t know that I’ve spent a lot of time on this subject. Others have. This particular incident was in my neck of the woods so I thought it worth discussing. 

But one thing you’re really wrong about: I am NOT looking for converts. I know this because I’m unsure of my own position. I wrote that I was “leaning” in one direction but it’s not close to a conviction on my part. I honestly don’t know if Trump is causing this, or if it’s merely a result of social media bringing greater attention to something that’s always been around but never prevalent. Or if it’s a combination of the two, or if there are other factors. I’m uncertain; why would I want others to share that? 

 

rockaction

Footballguy
I don’t know that I’ve spent a lot of time on this subject. Others have. This particular incident was in my neck of the woods so I thought it worth discussing. 

But one thing you’re really wrong about: I am NOT looking for converts. I know this because I’m unsure of my own position. I wrote that I was “leaning” in one direction but it’s not close to a conviction on my part. I honestly don’t know if Trump is causing this, or if it’s merely a result of social media bringing greater attention to something that’s always been around but never prevalent. Or if it’s a combination of the two, or if there are other factors. I’m uncertain; why would I want others to share that? 
Fair enough. I vented on you today and last night. It's not -- the tone is not one of hatred or anything like that and you have thick skin. 

If you made fun of my titles or my scattershotness, I'd also have to agree with you. 

 

timschochet

Footballguy
Probably because we've had the discussion eighty freaking times. Here's my take, again: Trump has done nothing to help society's inexorable march towards a more tolerant, forgiving society. He's a buffoon who says divisive things often and has a New York rudeness that's almost unparalleled in modern politics. But there is no great increase in hate crimes or hatred in general. It's always been there, it's just that it sticks out more because it's so:

  1. Rare - sticks out like a sore thumb 
  2. Overwhelmingly offensive to the majority
  3. Captured more easily by people with constant cameras in their pockets
  4. Covered by media outlets looking to push a sensationalist narrative
There is nothing about #MAGA that's inherently racist, IMO. I don't care what Cohen says or what people speculate. There's always been hate, always will be hate, but these days it sticks out because of the aforementioned factors and pearl clutchers that can't handle frank talk about certain issues. 

There. There's your discussion. I'm not changing my mind.   
The only problem with what you wrote here is your last sentence, which is a lie. 

I think highly enough of you that I am confident that if you were presented with compelling arguments or facts you would change your mind. That’s what separates thoughtful people from the masses. 

 

rockaction

Footballguy
The only problem with what you wrote here is your last sentence, which is a lie. 

I think highly enough of you that I am confident that if you were presented with compelling arguments or facts you would change your mind. That’s what separates thoughtful people from the masses. 
True. But I don't see any good way to present any quantifiable evidence so I'm pretty sure it's sort of one of those things we'll just live with. 

 

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