*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (5 Viewers)

[oneohh]

so we all agree Miami getsBosh/Wade/Lebron and Boozer for a mid level exception.

Kobe's ego would then take over the world.ETA: at the very least consume Oregon.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Regarding LeBron to the Heat...

The biggest drawback would be a hit in his legacy. Wade is too big a star. It would be hard for LeBron to ever be considered the Greatest of All Time if his name is always mentioned with Wade's.

I get the idea that LeBron would care about this and wouldn't play for the Heat for this reason. But maybe I'm wrong.

I couldn't disagree more. If Kareem, who was a much better player than Wade will ever be, didn't hurt Magic's legacy, Wade isn't going to hurt LeBron's legacy. That's ridiculous.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. One of the first arguments that used to be lobbed at Kobe for not being in the conversation as one of the greatest was that he rode Shaq. Wade is a mega-star. He already has a ring. If Lebron wins a ring with Wade, every argument about Lebron being among the best ever will start with, "He couldn't win a title without Wade..." And can you imagine if he didn't win it all out of the gates? His career averages dipping, the claims that he's not a winner like Jordan or Kobe getting louder? It seems like a no-win situation for him. If he gets a ring, it's because of Wade. If he doesn't win it all, the claims that he's not one of the greatest become deafening. That doesn't seem like an appealing situation.

Hakeem is the only player in the last 20 years to win a ring where fans couldn't say, "He couldn't win it without...."

Exactly. Also, LeBron is in the prime of his career. This wouldn't be akin to a past his prime Karl Malone to LAL situation.

 

[Walton Goggins]

The Cavaliers have no interest in being a part of a sign-and-trade with LeBron James, according to ESPN's Ric Bucher.

They have absolutely no choice but to say this right now. They have two pieces of leverage that no other team has. They can offer more money/years and they are the only team LeBron has ever played for (and the only state he's ever lived in). If LeBron is 100% going to leave...they will do an about face on that stance in a second.

:( Agree completely.

 

[Hang 10]

Regarding LeBron to the Heat...

The biggest drawback would be a hit in his legacy. Wade is too big a star. It would be hard for LeBron to ever be considered the Greatest of All Time if his name is always mentioned with Wade's.

I get the idea that LeBron would care about this and wouldn't play for the Heat for this reason. But maybe I'm wrong.

I couldn't disagree more. If Kareem, who was a much better player than Wade will ever be, didn't hurt Magic's legacy, Wade isn't going to hurt LeBron's legacy. That's ridiculous.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. One of the first arguments that used to be lobbed at Kobe for not being in the conversation as one of the greatest was that he rode Shaq. Wade is a mega-star. He already has a ring. If Lebron wins a ring with Wade, every argument about Lebron being among the best ever will start with, "He couldn't win a title without Wade..." And can you imagine if he didn't win it all out of the gates? His career averages dipping, the claims that he's not a winner like Jordan or Kobe getting louder? It seems like a no-win situation for him. If he gets a ring, it's because of Wade. If he doesn't win it all, the claims that he's not one of the greatest become deafening. That doesn't seem like an appealing situation.

Hakeem is the only player in the last 20 years to win a ring where fans couldn't say, "He couldn't win it without...."

Exactly. Also, LeBron is in the prime of his career. This wouldn't be akin to a past his prime Karl Malone to LAL situation.

Does anyone really say that Jordan couldn't have won a championship without Pippen? Does anyone really say that Tim Duncan could never won a championship without...? Abe's post was all kinds of wrong.

 

[Abraham]

Does anyone really say that Jordan couldn't have won a championship without Pippen? Does anyone really say that Tim Duncan could never won a championship without...? Abe's post was all kinds of wrong.

I don't have to "say" it - the facts back it up. Jordan never won a title without Pippen. The end. He probably could/would have without him but that's trying to prove an affirmative.The point is that when talking about "legacies" no one seems to get hung up on the fact that the greatest players of all time (except Hakeem) had at least one VERY good player on the court with them. Heck, any player with any sense is bound to know the only way to be considered among the all time greats is to win rings and the only way to win rings is to have at least one VERY good player on the court with you. In other words, I imagine given the choice between winning 2 or 3 rings with Dwayne Wade or Chris Bosh or Kobe Bryant on his team VS. winning ZERO rings with no decent players on his team, Lebron would take the jewelry and leave worrying about his legacy for another day.

 

[oneohh]

Does anyone really say that Jordan couldn't have won a championship without Pippen? Does anyone really say that Tim Duncan could never won a championship without...? Abe's post was all kinds of wrong.

I don't have to "say" it - the facts back it up. Jordan never won a title without Pippen. The end. He probably could/would have without him but that's trying to prove an affirmative.The point is that when talking about "legacies" no one seems to get hung up on the fact that the greatest players of all time (except Hakeem) had at least one VERY good player on the court with them. Heck, any player with any sense is bound to know the only way to be considered among the all time greats is to win rings and the only way to win rings is to have at least one VERY good player on the court with you. In other words, I imagine given the choice between winning 2 or 3 rings with Dwayne Wade or Chris Bosh or Kobe Bryant on his team VS. winning ZERO rings with no decent players on his team, Lebron would take the jewelry and leave worrying about his legacy for another day.

You know, now that he's tried it on his own and all. And failed.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Regarding LeBron to the Heat...

The biggest drawback would be a hit in his legacy. Wade is too big a star. It would be hard for LeBron to ever be considered the Greatest of All Time if his name is always mentioned with Wade's.

I get the idea that LeBron would care about this and wouldn't play for the Heat for this reason. But maybe I'm wrong.

I couldn't disagree more. If Kareem, who was a much better player than Wade will ever be, didn't hurt Magic's legacy, Wade isn't going to hurt LeBron's legacy. That's ridiculous.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. One of the first arguments that used to be lobbed at Kobe for not being in the conversation as one of the greatest was that he rode Shaq. Wade is a mega-star. He already has a ring. If Lebron wins a ring with Wade, every argument about Lebron being among the best ever will start with, "He couldn't win a title without Wade..." And can you imagine if he didn't win it all out of the gates? His career averages dipping, the claims that he's not a winner like Jordan or Kobe getting louder? It seems like a no-win situation for him. If he gets a ring, it's because of Wade. If he doesn't win it all, the claims that he's not one of the greatest become deafening. That doesn't seem like an appealing situation.

Hakeem is the only player in the last 20 years to win a ring where fans couldn't say, "He couldn't win it without...."

.... Michael Jordan sitting out all of 93-93 and most of 94-95.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Does anyone really say that Jordan couldn't have won a championship without Pippen? Does anyone really say that Tim Duncan could never won a championship without...?

Abe's post was all kinds of wrong.

I don't have to "say" it - the facts back it up. Jordan never won a title without Pippen. The end. He probably could/would have without him but that's trying to prove an affirmative.The point is that when talking about "legacies" no one seems to get hung up on the fact that the greatest players of all time (except Hakeem) had at least one VERY good player on the court with them. Heck, any player with any sense is bound to know the only way to be considered among the all time greats is to win rings and the only way to win rings is to have at least one VERY good player on the court with you.

In other words, I imagine given the choice between winning 2 or 3 rings with Dwayne Wade or Chris Bosh or Kobe Bryant on his team VS. winning ZERO rings with no decent players on his team, Lebron would take the jewelry and leave worrying about his legacy for another day.

Well, if this mega-team comes to fruition there will be much higher standards than 2-3 rings. They need 70+ wins, and a 3-peat at minimum or people will be talking ####.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Not nearly to the same extent. People can say Kobe couldn't win it without Gasol, which is probably true.

Probably? The Lakers have no chance at winning the last 2 titles without Gasol. They wouldn't have won this year without Ron Ron, let alone Gasol.

But Gasol is not a mega-star. He's a very good player, a necessary player, but when people look back, nobody is going to say the Lakers won because of him.

Outside of Howard, there's not a more dominant big man on the planet right now. Worst case scenario he's one of the top 3 big guys in the league. Hell, there's people on this board that have said Gasol is the best player on the Lakers this season!

Nobody is going to say the Bulls won because of Pippen.

Complete BS. Jordan would have zero titles without Pippen.

Nobody is going to say the Spurs won because of Parker or Ginobli.

Seriously?

But people could, and would, say the Heat won because of Wade more than Lebron. The arguments are going to be who is better between them and it will mean Lebron will not be assured of his place among the best ever because of it.Edited to add: He will be considered one of the best ever--but not as a candidate for THEE best. The only way that can happen is if he wins titles with a Gasol, Pippen or Parker/Ginobli type--and Bosh fits that bill perfectly. Wade does not.

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Abraham]

Does anyone really say that Jordan couldn't have won a championship without Pippen? Does anyone really say that Tim Duncan could never won a championship without...?

Abe's post was all kinds of wrong.

I don't have to "say" it - the facts back it up. Jordan never won a title without Pippen. The end. He probably could/would have without him but that's trying to prove an affirmative.The point is that when talking about "legacies" no one seems to get hung up on the fact that the greatest players of all time (except Hakeem) had at least one VERY good player on the court with them. Heck, any player with any sense is bound to know the only way to be considered among the all time greats is to win rings and the only way to win rings is to have at least one VERY good player on the court with you.

In other words, I imagine given the choice between winning 2 or 3 rings with Dwayne Wade or Chris Bosh or Kobe Bryant on his team VS. winning ZERO rings with no decent players on his team, Lebron would take the jewelry and leave worrying about his legacy for another day.

Well, if this mega-team comes to fruition there will be much higher standards than 2-3 rings. They need 70+ wins, and a 3-peat at minimum or people will be talking ####.

I doubt that. 2-3 rings would be 40-60% success rate over the life of the contracts. You can only win one at a time and only one team can win each year. As good as a "super" team of LBJ and Wade might be, the rest of the league isn't going to roll over for them.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Does anyone really say that Jordan couldn't have won a championship without Pippen? Does anyone really say that Tim Duncan could never won a championship without...?

Abe's post was all kinds of wrong.

I don't have to "say" it - the facts back it up. Jordan never won a title without Pippen. The end. He probably could/would have without him but that's trying to prove an affirmative.The point is that when talking about "legacies" no one seems to get hung up on the fact that the greatest players of all time (except Hakeem) had at least one VERY good player on the court with them. Heck, any player with any sense is bound to know the only way to be considered among the all time greats is to win rings and the only way to win rings is to have at least one VERY good player on the court with you.

In other words, I imagine given the choice between winning 2 or 3 rings with Dwayne Wade or Chris Bosh or Kobe Bryant on his team VS. winning ZERO rings with no decent players on his team, Lebron would take the jewelry and leave worrying about his legacy for another day.

Well, if this mega-team comes to fruition there will be much higher standards than 2-3 rings. They need 70+ wins, and a 3-peat at minimum or people will be talking ####.

I doubt that. 2-3 rings would be 40-60% success rate over the life of the contracts. You can only win one at a time and only one team can win each year. As good as a "super" team of LBJ and Wade might be, the rest of the league isn't going to roll over for them.

Anything less will be unacceptable to the Heat, the media, and Jmon.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Does anyone really say that Jordan couldn't have won a championship without Pippen? Does anyone really say that Tim Duncan could never won a championship without...? Abe's post was all kinds of wrong.

It doesn't matter. Jordan was Batman, Pippen was Robin. Kobe is Batman, Gasol is Robin. Wade was Batman, Shaq was Robin. Duncan was Batman, Parker & Manu were Robins. Magic was Batman, KAJ & Worthy were Robins. Bird was Batman, McHale was Robin.There can only be one Batman per team and to be the GOAT, you have to be a Batman on a team that wins multiple championships. I didn't make these rules up, they just are.

 

[oneohh]

Not nearly to the same extent. People can say Kobe couldn't win it without Gasol, which is probably true.

Probably? The Lakers have no chance at winning the last 2 titles without Gasol. They wouldn't have won this year without Ron Ron, let alone Gasol.

But Gasol is not a mega-star. He's a very good player, a necessary player, but when people look back, nobody is going to say the Lakers won because of him.

Outside of Howard, there's not a more dominant big man on the planet right now. Worst case scenario he's one of the top 3 big guys in the league. Hell, there's people on this board that have said Gasol is the best player on the Lakers this season!

Nobody is going to say the Bulls won because of Pippen.

Complete BS. Jordan would have zero titles without Pippen.

Nobody is going to say the Spurs won because of Parker or Ginobli.

Seriously?

But people could, and would, say the Heat won because of Wade more than Lebron. The arguments are going to be who is better between them and it will mean Lebron will not be assured of his place among the best ever because of it.Edited to add: He will be considered one of the best ever--but not as a candidate for THEE best. The only way that can happen is if he wins titles with a Gasol, Pippen or Parker/Ginobli type--and Bosh fits that bill perfectly. Wade does not.

Absolutely ridiculous. ETA: not my original post but I'm terrible at using the friggin quotes system

 

[Masked Vigilante]

This just in: Basketball is a team game

 

[Dexter Manley]

Regarding LeBron to the Heat...

The biggest drawback would be a hit in his legacy. Wade is too big a star. It would be hard for LeBron to ever be considered the Greatest of All Time if his name is always mentioned with Wade's.

I get the idea that LeBron would care about this and wouldn't play for the Heat for this reason. But maybe I'm wrong.

I couldn't disagree more. If Kareem, who was a much better player than Wade will ever be, didn't hurt Magic's legacy, Wade isn't going to hurt LeBron's legacy. That's ridiculous.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. One of the first arguments that used to be lobbed at Kobe for not being in the conversation as one of the greatest was that he rode Shaq. Wade is a mega-star. He already has a ring. If Lebron wins a ring with Wade, every argument about Lebron being among the best ever will start with, "He couldn't win a title without Wade..." And can you imagine if he didn't win it all out of the gates? His career averages dipping, the claims that he's not a winner like Jordan or Kobe getting louder? It seems like a no-win situation for him. If he gets a ring, it's because of Wade. If he doesn't win it all, the claims that he's not one of the greatest become deafening. That doesn't seem like an appealing situation.

Hakeem is the only player in the last 20 years to win a ring where fans couldn't say, "He couldn't win it without...."

.... Michael Jordan sitting out all of 93-93 and most of 94-95.

 

[oneohh]

Does anyone really say that Jordan couldn't have won a championship without Pippen? Does anyone really say that Tim Duncan could never won a championship without...?

Abe's post was all kinds of wrong.

I don't have to "say" it - the facts back it up. Jordan never won a title without Pippen. The end. He probably could/would have without him but that's trying to prove an affirmative.The point is that when talking about "legacies" no one seems to get hung up on the fact that the greatest players of all time (except Hakeem) had at least one VERY good player on the court with them. Heck, any player with any sense is bound to know the only way to be considered among the all time greats is to win rings and the only way to win rings is to have at least one VERY good player on the court with you.

In other words, I imagine given the choice between winning 2 or 3 rings with Dwayne Wade or Chris Bosh or Kobe Bryant on his team VS. winning ZERO rings with no decent players on his team, Lebron would take the jewelry and leave worrying about his legacy for another day.

Well, if this mega-team comes to fruition there will be much higher standards than 2-3 rings. They need 70+ wins, and a 3-peat at minimum or people will be talking ####.

I doubt that. 2-3 rings would be 40-60% success rate over the life of the contracts. You can only win one at a time and only one team can win each year. As good as a "super" team of LBJ and Wade might be, the rest of the league isn't going to roll over for them.

Anything less will be unacceptable to the Heat, the media, and Jmon.

 

[Hang 10]

Does anyone really say that Jordan couldn't have won a championship without Pippen? Does anyone really say that Tim Duncan could never won a championship without...? Abe's post was all kinds of wrong.

It doesn't matter. Jordan was Batman, Pippen was Robin. Kobe is Batman, Gasol is Robin. Wade was Batman, Shaq was Robin. Duncan was Batman, Parker & Manu were Robins. Magic was Batman, KAJ & Worthy were Robins. Bird was Batman, McHale was Robin.There can only be one Batman per team and to be the GOAT, you have to be a Batman on a team that wins multiple championships. I didn't make these rules up, they just are.

This.

 

[Dexter Manley]

This just in: Basketball is a team game

 

[Dexter Manley]

Does anyone really say that Jordan couldn't have won a championship without Pippen? Does anyone really say that Tim Duncan could never won a championship without...? Abe's post was all kinds of wrong.

It doesn't matter. Jordan was Batman, Pippen was Robin. Kobe is Batman, Gasol is Robin. Wade was Batman, Shaq was Robin. Duncan was Batman, Parker & Manu were Robins. Magic was Batman, KAJ & Worthy were Robins. Bird was Batman, McHale was Robin.There can only be one Batman per team and to be the GOAT, you have to be a Batman on a team that wins multiple championships. I didn't make these rules up, they just are.

This

is the first time I've ever seen anyone refer to Kareem, arguably the GOAT at any position, as a "Robin."

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Gotta love the Lebron fanboys tripping over themselves to pretend that Lebron winning with Wade/Bosh wouldn't cheapen a title after spending all season acting like Pau Gasol was Wilt Chamberlain.

 

[Hang 10]

Does anyone really say that Jordan couldn't have won a championship without Pippen? Does anyone really say that Tim Duncan could never won a championship without...? Abe's post was all kinds of wrong.

It doesn't matter. Jordan was Batman, Pippen was Robin. Kobe is Batman, Gasol is Robin. Wade was Batman, Shaq was Robin. Duncan was Batman, Parker & Manu were Robins. Magic was Batman, KAJ & Worthy were Robins. Bird was Batman, McHale was Robin.There can only be one Batman per team and to be the GOAT, you have to be a Batman on a team that wins multiple championships. I didn't make these rules up, they just are.

This

is the first time I've ever seen anyone refer to Kareem, arguably the GOAT at any position, as a "Robin."

That was his role on that Lakers team. Showtime was Magic's Lakers. Did you forget about the time Magic played center for the Lakers in the finals?

 

[oneohh]

Gotta love the Lebron fanboys tripping over themselves to pretend that Lebron winning with Wade/Bosh wouldn't cheapen a title after spending all season acting like Pau Gasol was Wilt Chamberlain.

At least the Lebron/Bosh acquisitions would be legitimate.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Does anyone really say that Jordan couldn't have won a championship without Pippen? Does anyone really say that Tim Duncan could never won a championship without...? Abe's post was all kinds of wrong.

It doesn't matter. Jordan was Batman, Pippen was Robin. Kobe is Batman, Gasol is Robin. Wade was Batman, Shaq was Robin. Duncan was Batman, Parker & Manu were Robins. Magic was Batman, KAJ & Worthy were Robins. Bird was Batman, McHale was Robin.There can only be one Batman per team and to be the GOAT, you have to be a Batman on a team that wins multiple championships. I didn't make these rules up, they just are.

This

is the first time I've ever seen anyone refer to Kareem, arguably the GOAT at any position, as a "Robin."

I'm referring to an older Kareem. Just like I was referring to an older Shaq with the Heat.

 

[EYLive]

Gotta love the Lebron fanboys tripping over themselves to pretend that Lebron winning with Wade/Bosh wouldn't cheapen a title after spending all season acting like Pau Gasol was Wilt Chamberlain.

At least the Lebron/Bosh acquisitions would be legitimate.

Dang. People are still crying about this?

 

[EYLive]

Cavs need to trade Delonte West. I don't see how Lebron will ever coexist with West after what he did to his mom.

 

[Bobcat10]

Does anyone really say that Jordan couldn't have won a championship without Pippen? Does anyone really say that Tim Duncan could never won a championship without...?

Abe's post was all kinds of wrong.

I don't have to "say" it - the facts back it up. Jordan never won a title without Pippen. The end. He probably could/would have without him but that's trying to prove an affirmative.The point is that when talking about "legacies" no one seems to get hung up on the fact that the greatest players of all time (except Hakeem) had at least one VERY good player on the court with them. Heck, any player with any sense is bound to know the only way to be considered among the all time greats is to win rings and the only way to win rings is to have at least one VERY good player on the court with you.

In other words, I imagine given the choice between winning 2 or 3 rings with Dwayne Wade or Chris Bosh or Kobe Bryant on his team VS. winning ZERO rings with no decent players on his team, Lebron would take the jewelry and leave worrying about his legacy for another day.

Of course he would if he knew that. No matter what anyone here thinks, I believe one of his major decisions will be something like 2-3 rings with the super team vs 1 ring in Cleveland. All are possibilities...nothing is certain. If both were certain, I think I'd know what he'd be choosing.On a side note...it seems like I bring Cleveland into every equation and some probably think I'm just that stupid homer talking...but if I had to gamble right now I'd say he's leaving. I just think overall people are underestimating Cleveland in the equation. This is a 3 horse race coming down to the wire imo.

 

[boubucarow]

Does anyone really say that Jordan couldn't have won a championship without Pippen? Does anyone really say that Tim Duncan could never won a championship without...? Abe's post was all kinds of wrong.

It doesn't matter. Jordan was Batman, Pippen was Robin. Kobe is Batman, Gasol is Robin. Wade was Batman, Shaq was Robin. Duncan was Batman, Parker & Manu were Robins. Magic was Batman, KAJ & Worthy were Robins. Bird was Batman, McHale was Robin.There can only be one Batman per team and to be the GOAT, you have to be a Batman on a team that wins multiple championships. I didn't make these rules up, they just are.

This

is the first time I've ever seen anyone refer to Kareem, arguably the GOAT at any position, as a "Robin."

I'm referring to an older Kareem. Just like I was referring to an older Shaq with the Heat.

During the 1st Laker title with Magic, Kareem was the better player during the season and the playoffs but that huge game to clinch the title for Magic overshadows that. The later Magic titles it is clear that he was the best player on the team.As for James, the biggest flaw in his career so far is that he hasn't won. Many fans and experts question if he can ever win a title. If he joins Wade/Bosh and the Heat, it will be perceived that James was just on a team so great that he couldn't mess it up. Even if he plays well, it will be said that he did so because the pressure was off since he had Wade. I have no doubt it would hurt his legacy.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Does anyone really say that Jordan couldn't have won a championship without Pippen? Does anyone really say that Tim Duncan could never won a championship without...? Abe's post was all kinds of wrong.

It doesn't matter. Jordan was Batman, Pippen was Robin. Kobe is Batman, Gasol is Robin. Wade was Batman, Shaq was Robin. Duncan was Batman, Parker & Manu were Robins. Magic was Batman, KAJ & Worthy were Robins. Bird was Batman, McHale was Robin.There can only be one Batman per team and to be the GOAT, you have to be a Batman on a team that wins multiple championships. I didn't make these rules up, they just are.

This

is the first time I've ever seen anyone refer to Kareem, arguably the GOAT at any position, as a "Robin."

That was his role on that Lakers team. Showtime was Magic's Lakers. Did you forget about the time Magic played center for the Lakers in the finals?

No I most certainly didn't. That was Magic's rookie year. Game 6 of the Finals at Philly and Kareem was out injured. IMO, the most impressive Finals performance of at least the last 30 years.And Kareem was regarded as the best player in the league at the time. Which is why Magic's performance in that game 6 is so uber legendary.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Does anyone really say that Jordan couldn't have won a championship without Pippen? Does anyone really say that Tim Duncan could never won a championship without...? Abe's post was all kinds of wrong.

It doesn't matter. Jordan was Batman, Pippen was Robin. Kobe is Batman, Gasol is Robin. Wade was Batman, Shaq was Robin. Duncan was Batman, Parker & Manu were Robins. Magic was Batman, KAJ & Worthy were Robins. Bird was Batman, McHale was Robin.There can only be one Batman per team and to be the GOAT, you have to be a Batman on a team that wins multiple championships. I didn't make these rules up, they just are.

This

is the first time I've ever seen anyone refer to Kareem, arguably the GOAT at any position, as a "Robin."

I'm referring to an older Kareem. Just like I was referring to an older Shaq with the Heat.

Ok, gotcha. Because as I stated in my previous post, Kareem was the best player in the league when Magic joined the Lakers as a rookie.

 

[Bobcat10]

Gotta love the Lebron fanboys tripping over themselves to pretend that Lebron winning with Wade/Bosh wouldn't cheapen a title after spending all season acting like Pau Gasol was Wilt Chamberlain.

I think you posted in the wrong forum. hth

 

[Hellfire Snail]

Absolutely ridiculous.

You completely missed the point. I wasn't saying that Kobe could have won without Gasol, or Duncan without Parker/Ginobli, I was saying that no one will think back on those titles as being the result of Gasol or Parker/Ginobli. They will be thought of as Kobe's and Duncan's because they were dominant, bigger than life players. Who cares if some people think Gasol is the best big man on the planet or that Gasol is better than Kobe? The last two titles will be remembered as Kobe winning them--not Gasol. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong or what some geek thinks. It's just how it is. The whole point is that if Lebron teams up with Wade, the top dog won't be definite like in those other cases. The gap between those two is nowhere near the gap between Kobe/Gasol, Duncan/Parker, Jordan/Pippen in terms of perception What you think doesn't matter. Public perception is what matters. If Lebron doesn't care that he won't have a chance at being considered the greatest ever, than that's cool, he'll sign with Miami and maybe he'll win some titles. If he does care, he won't. I don't really care either way.

 

[whitem0nkey]

Dave Kaplan said on Chicago Tribune Live that sources told him, Phil Knight will offer lebron the biggest Nike contract ever, if he signs with the Bulls.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Absolutely ridiculous.

You completely missed the point. I wasn't saying that Kobe could have won without Gasol, or Duncan without Parker/Ginobli, I was saying that no one will think back on those titles as being the result of Gasol or Parker/Ginobli. They will be thought of as Kobe's and Duncan's because they were dominant, bigger than life players. Who cares if some people think Gasol is the best big man on the planet or that Gasol is better than Kobe? The last two titles will be remembered as Kobe winning them--not Gasol. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong or what some geek thinks. It's just how it is.

Only people who don't understand the game of basketball think like this. Even when looking back at the biggest 1 man championship team of the last few decades, the Rockets, I remember Mad Max, Otis Thorpe, Kenny Smith, etc. as being intregal parts of the team.

The whole point is that if Lebron teams up with Wade, the top dog won't be definite like in those other cases. The gap between those two is nowhere near the gap between Kobe/Gasol, Duncan/Parker, Jordan/Pippen in terms of perception What you think doesn't matter. Public perception is what matters. If Lebron doesn't care that he won't have a chance at being considered the greatest ever, than that's cool, he'll sign with Miami and maybe he'll win some titles. If he does care, he won't. I don't really care either way.

If LeBron cares about public perception, he'll stay in Cleveland. If he wants to win the most titles possible, he'll leave.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Maybe LeBron, Wade and Bosh had a lot of fun playing together for Team USA and they see an opportunity where all can play together again for max or near max compensation and potentially dominate the league. What's wrong with young guys wanting to have fun together, win and get paid, legacies be damned?

 

[Bobcat10]

Windhorst's latest

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- With rumors popping up and then being shot down routinely, one thing remains clear though all of the chaos surrounding LeBron James' free agency: the Cavaliers are still the frontrunner.

A source close to James told The Plain Dealer Tuesday morning that James still considers the Cavs to have the edge in re-signing the two-time Most Valuable Player. This is based not only on the fact that the Cavs can pay him $30 million more than another team over the next six years, but also that it is James' home.

James will host a series of meetings in the Akron area starting Thursday at 10 a.m. when the New Jersey Nets are scheduled to make the first presentation, a source said. Nets new Russian owner Mikhail Prokhorov is flying to the U.S. just for the meeting before immediately flying back out. Then the New York Knicks are expected to present their case followed by a series of other suitors that could last much of Thursday and Friday.

The Cavs and likely a new head coach, which the team hopes to hire in the next two days, might also meet with James. While there have been reports that the Cavs are close to hiring Lakers assistant coach Brian Shaw, a team source said Tuesday morning that the Cavs have not made an offer to Shaw or other leading candidate Byron Scott.

After all the meetings, according to sources, James is expected to make his decision over a period of several days. Until then, James does not plan on committing to anything.

Over the last several days there have been a series of stories from newspaper and websites that have linked James to the Knicks, Bulls and Heat. Various denials then followed. Late Monday, ESPN reported that James met with fellow free agents Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade over the weekend in Miami.

But sources close to James have told The Plain Dealer that James was in New York over the weekend and did not travel to Miami. It is possible that Wade, James and Bosh all spoke on the telephone about their options and plans as they hit free agency. All three are represented by the same agency.

Wade and Bosh's agent, Henry Thomas, told the Miami Herald that the three did not meet in Miami.

 

[Bobcat10]

Also from Windhorst on Twitter:

3-way split of Heat current space would be about $38 mill. less than full max

 

[Hellfire Snail]

Absolutely ridiculous.

You completely missed the point. I wasn't saying that Kobe could have won without Gasol, or Duncan without Parker/Ginobli, I was saying that no one will think back on those titles as being the result of Gasol or Parker/Ginobli. They will be thought of as Kobe's and Duncan's because they were dominant, bigger than life players. Who cares if some people think Gasol is the best big man on the planet or that Gasol is better than Kobe? The last two titles will be remembered as Kobe winning them--not Gasol. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong or what some geek thinks. It's just how it is.

Only people who don't understand the game of basketball think like this. Even when looking back at the biggest 1 man championship team of the last few decades, the Rockets, I remember Mad Max, Otis Thorpe, Kenny Smith, etc. as being intregal parts of the team.

The whole point is that if Lebron teams up with Wade, the top dog won't be definite like in those other cases. The gap between those two is nowhere near the gap between Kobe/Gasol, Duncan/Parker, Jordan/Pippen in terms of perception What you think doesn't matter. Public perception is what matters. If Lebron doesn't care that he won't have a chance at being considered the greatest ever, than that's cool, he'll sign with Miami and maybe he'll win some titles. If he does care, he won't. I don't really care either way.

If LeBron cares about public perception, he'll stay in Cleveland. If he wants to win the most titles possible, he'll leave.

I think everyone understands that championship teams with top-tier stars had other good to great players whether they "understand" basketball or not. The issue in this discussion, in terms of legacy, is how he will be viewed by the public. If he wins rings with the Heat, some will say he was better than Wade, some will say Wade was better. His rings won't be regarded the same as Kobe's, Duncan's, Jordan's, etc. I'm shocked anybody can't see that.

 

[JMon348]

Im going to love this NBA OffSeason, July 1st cant come fast enough*

*its even sweeter after winning a title

 

[Dexter Manley]

Absolutely ridiculous.

You completely missed the point. I wasn't saying that Kobe could have won without Gasol, or Duncan without Parker/Ginobli, I was saying that no one will think back on those titles as being the result of Gasol or Parker/Ginobli. They will be thought of as Kobe's and Duncan's because they were dominant, bigger than life players. Who cares if some people think Gasol is the best big man on the planet or that Gasol is better than Kobe? The last two titles will be remembered as Kobe winning them--not Gasol. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong or what some geek thinks. It's just how it is.

Only people who don't understand the game of basketball think like this. Even when looking back at the biggest 1 man championship team of the last few decades, the Rockets, I remember Mad Max, Otis Thorpe, Kenny Smith, etc. as being intregal parts of the team.

The whole point is that if Lebron teams up with Wade, the top dog won't be definite like in those other cases. The gap between those two is nowhere near the gap between Kobe/Gasol, Duncan/Parker, Jordan/Pippen in terms of perception What you think doesn't matter. Public perception is what matters. If Lebron doesn't care that he won't have a chance at being considered the greatest ever, than that's cool, he'll sign with Miami and maybe he'll win some titles. If he does care, he won't. I don't really care either way.

If LeBron cares about public perception, he'll stay in Cleveland. If he wants to win the most titles possible, he'll leave.

I think everyone understands that championship teams with top-tier stars had other good to great players whether they "understand" basketball or not.

There's plenty of evidence in this thread that what you think is wrong.

 

[Bobcat10]

Rumbles around town right now that Shaw will be offered Cleveland position this afternoon, if it hasn't been already.

 

[Statorama]

Windhorst's latest

Cavs can pay him $30 million more than another team over the next six years

If LeBron's agent can't make up a $30M difference by going to a major media market, Bronzo needs a new agent.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Maybe LeBron, Wade and Bosh had a lot of fun playing together for Team USA and they see an opportunity where all can play together again for max or near max compensation and potentially dominate the league. What's wrong with young guys wanting to have fun together, win and get paid, legacies be damned?

What's amusing to me about this scenario is here we have a situation where players who genuinely like each other are exploring the possibility of putting titles and teammates ahead of money and fame, and folks will still find a way to criticize them all for it.

I agree completely.Not to mention if they get the right pieces added around those 3 guys, they could be the best team since the 80's Lakers and Celtics.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Nets traded Yi Jianlian to Wizards for a salary dump end of bench player. Creates more cap room for New Jersey.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

As good as a "super" team of LBJ and Wade might be, the rest of the league isn't going to roll over for them.

They won't roll over, but if you look back at recent history, when the Celtics assembled their big 3 for the 07/08 season, they pretty much steamrolled the league -- 66-16 regular season record and a championship, and you'd be hard-pressed to convince people that Pierce, Allen or Garnett were at the same level as Wade or LeBron are now at that point in their careers. If all three stayed healthy, I don't see how they'd win less than 70 games in the regular season, and I think they'd cruise to the title, even with Kobe and his suffocating perimeter defense (Ferris>Hi).However, I don't think it'll happen.

 

[Walton Goggins]

Absolutely ridiculous.

You completely missed the point. I wasn't saying that Kobe could have won without Gasol, or Duncan without Parker/Ginobli, I was saying that no one will think back on those titles as being the result of Gasol or Parker/Ginobli. They will be thought of as Kobe's and Duncan's because they were dominant, bigger than life players. Who cares if some people think Gasol is the best big man on the planet or that Gasol is better than Kobe? The last two titles will be remembered as Kobe winning them--not Gasol. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong or what some geek thinks. It's just how it is.

Only people who don't understand the game of basketball think like this. Even when looking back at the biggest 1 man championship team of the last few decades, the Rockets, I remember Mad Max, Otis Thorpe, Kenny Smith, etc. as being intregal parts of the team.

The whole point is that if Lebron teams up with Wade, the top dog won't be definite like in those other cases. The gap between those two is nowhere near the gap between Kobe/Gasol, Duncan/Parker, Jordan/Pippen in terms of perception What you think doesn't matter. Public perception is what matters. If Lebron doesn't care that he won't have a chance at being considered the greatest ever, than that's cool, he'll sign with Miami and maybe he'll win some titles. If he does care, he won't. I don't really care either way.

If LeBron cares about public perception, he'll stay in Cleveland. If he wants to win the most titles possible, he'll leave.

Don't forget Sam Cassell

http://letsblogsports.files.wordpress.com/...am-cassell1.jpg

 

[whitem0nkey]

Nets traded Yi Jianlian to Wizards for a salary dump end of bench player. Creates more cap room for New Jersey.

what is more interesting for me(as the nets are out LBJ running IMO) is the Wizzards are gonna make a contender the way they are dealing. Beasley will be a wizard the way things are going.

 

[Walton Goggins]

Maybe LeBron, Wade and Bosh had a lot of fun playing together for Team USA and they see an opportunity where all can play together again for max or near max compensation and potentially dominate the league. What's wrong with young guys wanting to have fun together, win and get paid, legacies be damned?

What's amusing to me about this scenario is here we have a situation where players who genuinely like each other are exploring the possibility of putting titles and teammates ahead of money and fame, and folks will still find a way to criticize them all for it.

I agree completely.Not to mention if they get the right pieces added around those 3 guys, they could be the best team since the 80's Lakers and Celtics.

I believe if all three guys are together all but one of the remaining players will have to be at minimum contracts.

 

[JMon348]

Rumbles around town right now that Shaw will be offered Cleveland position this afternoon, if it hasn't been already.

Would be a great hire. I'm worried that if LeBron leaves, Brian could be taking on a lottery team that doesn't have much chance at winning thus making him look bad. Brian Shaw and Derek Fisher are the only two players I have watched while they played and had me convinced they would be great coaches one day. Shaw is the guy I want taking over for Phil if he decides to retire above anyone else.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Maybe LeBron, Wade and Bosh had a lot of fun playing together for Team USA and they see an opportunity where all can play together again for max or near max compensation and potentially dominate the league. What's wrong with young guys wanting to have fun together, win and get paid, legacies be damned?

What's amusing to me about this scenario is here we have a situation where players who genuinely like each other are exploring the possibility of putting titles and teammates ahead of money and fame, and folks will still find a way to criticize them all for it.

I agree completely.Not to mention if they get the right pieces added around those 3 guys, they could be the best team since the 80's Lakers and Celtics.

I think it's pretty cool really. Now if Boozer decides to take the mid-level exemption because he's boys with Wade and to make up for screwing over lebron a few years ago ....

 

[Juxtatarot]

Maybe LeBron, Wade and Bosh had a lot of fun playing together for Team USA and they see an opportunity where all can play together again for max or near max compensation and potentially dominate the league. What's wrong with young guys wanting to have fun together, win and get paid, legacies be damned?

What's amusing to me about this scenario is here we have a situation where players who genuinely like each other are exploring the possibility of putting titles and teammates ahead of money and fame, and folks will still find a way to criticize them all for it.

I, for one, am not criticizing or claiming that there is anything wrong with it. I just don't see LeBron making the sacrifice to his legacy. If I were in his situation with his talent, I wouldn't. I would want to be considered the GOAT.