*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (7 Viewers)

[biggamer3]

Rumors about W's offering Monta, Biedrins, and Udoh for Dwight Howard. Offer doesn't include Howard signing extension first. W's willing to gamble on 1-yr deal and hope that Lacob can sell Howard on benefits of Bay Area. As a W's fan, I like it.

whats hard to understand here?If Howard is not willing to give extension to any team that trades for him the Magic are not looking at getting much better then a Monta Ellis. If Howard will sign with a few teams then the package will be considerably better

Its not just Monta Ellis, its Biedrins too, who might have one of the worst 5 or so contracts in the NBA. He would fit nicely next to Arenas and Turkeyglue. We also shouldn't pretend that Ellis at 3/33 is a deal either. They would be MUCH better off letting Howard walk.

ah, obviously that changes things but if Orlando can unload a Turk or a Gilbert then its a wash

 

[biggamer3]

Kev are Nugg's gonna match offers for Wilson Chandler?

Also whats the story with Felton, he isnt going to be happy being 6th man going into his walk year

 

[Kev4029]

Kev are Nugg's gonna match offers for Wilson Chandler?Also whats the story with Felton, he isnt going to be happy being 6th man going into his walk year

I haven't heard anything about Chandler, but I would assume they would at least extend his qualifying offer if they haven't already. I would expect them to match any reasonable offer.As for Felton, there has been talk since he was traded that he wants to be a starter and those rumblings have continued into the offseason, I expect (and hope) for him to be traded, preferably for a productive big man.

 

[the moops]

Its not just Monta Ellis, its Biedrins too, who might have one of the worst 5 or so contracts in the NBA.

3 years left at 9 million per for a 7 footer who is 24 years old and at worst will give you 25 minutes a night of solid defense and rebounding.There is zero chance that contract is anywhere near one of the worst 5 in the league.

 

[cubd8]

Rumors about W's offering Monta, Biedrins, and Udoh for Dwight Howard. Offer doesn't include Howard signing extension first. W's willing to gamble on 1-yr deal and hope that Lacob can sell Howard on benefits of Bay Area. As a W's fan, I like it.

whats hard to understand here?If Howard is not willing to give extension to any team that trades for him the Magic are not looking at getting much better then a Monta Ellis. If Howard will sign with a few teams then the package will be considerably better

Its not just Monta Ellis, its Biedrins too, who might have one of the worst 5 or so contracts in the NBA. He would fit nicely next to Arenas and Turkeyglue. We also shouldn't pretend that Ellis at 3/33 is a deal either. They would be MUCH better off letting Howard walk.

The Magic aren't taking that trade. They also are probably not trading Howard unless Arenas goes with him.

 

[Abraham]

They also are probably not trading Howard unless Arenas goes with him.

This was my thought as well. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the ONLY way the Magic will trade Howard will be if Arenas goes with him. No idea who would be able to absorb all that sweet moola, particularly with a lower cap coming.

 

[Kev4029]

Its not just Monta Ellis, its Biedrins too, who might have one of the worst 5 or so contracts in the NBA.

3 years left at 9 million per for a 7 footer who is 24 years old and at worst will give you 25 minutes a night of solid defense and rebounding.There is zero chance that contract is anywhere near one of the worst 5 in the league.

He can block shots and rebound, but he is a poor defender otherwise and offers nothing on offense (other then the comedy from being the worst foul shooter in the nba) other than easy dunks. On top of that he is one of the worst foulers in the NBA, so even if you wanted him on the court 30mpg its hard to do. Hes certainly an NBA caliber big, but more like a 15 mpg big. The only contracts I can think of that are certainly worse are Arenas, Lewis, Davis, Roy (only because of the injury), and Turkoglu. Hes in the same class as Haywood, Outlaw, and Jefferson.

 

[wikkidpissah]

I thought Biedrins was a good player who didnt fit Nellie's system & would get better once the ol drunk retired. Not. Havent seen a player this lost in space since Manute.

 

[cubd8]

They also are probably not trading Howard unless Arenas goes with him.

This was my thought as well. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the ONLY way the Magic will trade Howard will be if Arenas goes with him. No idea who would be able to absorb all that sweet moola, particularly with a lower cap coming.

Correct - they would have to also take back some sizable contracts, although you figure if they are trading Howard, they'd be getting back a superstar (or player near that level) who is making big money AND another pretty good player to help off-set Arenas's money although it could end up being a bum in return for Arenas, just one with a shorter contract.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

Rumors about W's offering Monta, Biedrins, and Udoh for Dwight Howard. Offer doesn't include Howard signing extension first. W's willing to gamble on 1-yr deal and hope that Lacob can sell Howard on benefits of Bay Area. As a W's fan, I like it.

Really? The Warriors would be willing to gamble on that?The Magic would also be willing to gamble on Chris Paul by trading Jameer Nelson, Hedo and Brandon Bass.

Honest to God, some idiot called in to local (CLE) talk radio last week and suggested the Cavs offer "the #4 pick, a 2nd round pick, a player to be named, and some cash" to Orlando for Howard. He couldn't even throw in the #1 pick. The hosts couldn't run him off fast enough. Then they mocked him for about 10 minutes. GB myopic homers.

 

[Abraham]

The mere appearance that Howard were available would create an enormous biding war. I actually think okc would be well positioned.

Anyway, am I the only ones surprised that Minnesota isn't sliding down to 3 to take Kanter and picking up a player of use from utAh in the process ?

 

[Captain Quinoa]

The mere appearance that Howard were available would create an enormous biding war. I actually think okc would be well positioned. Anyway, am I the only ones surprised that Minnesota isn't sliding down to 3 to take Kanter and picking up a player of use from utAh in the process ?

they might have something in place where if CLE takes Williams then Utah moves up to take Kyrie. Otherwise why would they move up?

 

[tommyGunZ]

The Magic aren't taking that trade. They also are probably not trading Howard unless Arenas goes with him.

The Magic don't have the leverage. They HAVE to deal him before the trade deadline, or they're finished for 5 years.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Rumors about W's offering Monta, Biedrins, and Udoh for Dwight Howard. Offer doesn't include Howard signing extension first. W's willing to gamble on 1-yr deal and hope that Lacob can sell Howard on benefits of Bay Area. As a W's fan, I like it.

Really? The Warriors would be willing to gamble on that?The Magic would also be willing to gamble on Chris Paul by trading Jameer Nelson, Hedo and Brandon Bass.

I thought Howard was signing that 2 yr extension?

 

[Abraham]

They don't have to deal him. Bosh didn't get dealt during the season. Neither did James. There are always sign and trades

 

[thecatch]

The mere appearance that Howard were available would create an enormous biding war. I actually think okc would be well positioned.

How is OKC well-positioned for a Howard offer? I'd assume that deal has to involve Perkins, and he's not someone that brings much to the table for a rebuilding team, especially with that long term contract. And even if ORL bit on Perkins, they'd still have to basically gut the team for him in order to get the salaries to work (depending on where the cap ends up)

 

[Abraham]

I was thinking that okc could offer a young star (Westbrook) and perkins. That's certainly more then, say, the lakers could offer.

 

[thecatch]

I was thinking that okc could offer a young star (Westbrook) and perkins. That's certainly more then, say, the lakers could offer.

I was assuming that OKC would be building around Westbrook and Durant. I'm sure ORL would be fine taking on Perkins in that scenario if they had to deal Howard. Haven't seen any indication that OKC is open to moving Westbrook though.

 

[Abraham]

Me either, other then Internet speculation after the Dallas series. But a team of durant, howard, harden, ibaka, and manor would be favorites in the west for a while.

 

[tommyGunZ]

They don't have to deal him. Bosh didn't get dealt during the season. Neither did James. There are always sign and trades

Yeah, and you see what Toronto and Clev got in the sign and trades. SCREWED.

 

[Abraham]

Just pointing out that they don't gave to trade him

 

[wikkidpissah]

Considering how overpaid Denver got for Melo midseason, i cant see the Magic dealing D12 til they absolutely have to.

 

[Kev4029]

Considering how overpaid Denver got for Melo midseason, i cant see the Magic dealing D12 til they absolutely have to.

Denver was dealing with Isiah Thomas (allegedly), so you gotta take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Kev4029]

Kev are Nugg's gonna match offers for Wilson Chandler?Also whats the story with Felton, he isnt going to be happy being 6th man going into his walk year

I haven't heard anything about Chandler, but I would assume they would at least extend his qualifying offer if they haven't already. I would expect them to match any reasonable offer.As for Felton, there has been talk since he was traded that he wants to be a starter and those rumblings have continued into the offseason, I expect (and hope) for him to be traded, preferably for a productive big man.

Just as a follow up to this, the Nuggets did extend a qualifying offer to Chandler yesterday as well as Forbes (don't understand how that works as a one year player) and Afflalo.

 

[[scooter]]

I was thinking that okc could offer a young star (Westbrook) and perkins. That's certainly more then, say, the lakers could offer.

I was assuming that OKC would be building around Westbrook and Durant. I'm sure ORL would be fine taking on Perkins in that scenario if they had to deal Howard. Haven't seen any indication that OKC is open to moving Westbrook though.

It's only a matter of time before Westbrook is traded. Durant is the superstar, Westbrook is the next Stephon Marbury.

 

[the moops]

I was thinking that okc could offer a young star (Westbrook) and perkins. That's certainly more then, say, the lakers could offer.

I was assuming that OKC would be building around Westbrook and Durant. I'm sure ORL would be fine taking on Perkins in that scenario if they had to deal Howard. Haven't seen any indication that OKC is open to moving Westbrook though.

A Westbrook, Perkins, Collison, Nate Robinson, draft picks for Howard, Arenas works in the trade machine.Not sure what to make of a deal like that from either perspective though.

 

[[scooter]]

They don't have to deal him. Bosh didn't get dealt during the season. Neither did James. There are always sign and trades

Yeah, and you see what Toronto and Clev got in the sign and trades. SCREWED.

It was a calculated risk. If the Cavs trade LeBron in midseason, then there's a 0% chance of re-signing him and keeping him in Cleveland. They went all-in to try to get him to stay and actually got a little lucky because they could have ended up with nothing (but instead got two 1st round picks and two 2nd round picks). Also, since the last of those 1st round picks could come in 2017 (after the Wade, Both & LeBron contracts expire), they'll probably end up with a top-5 pick in the end.The Raptors got the #5 pick in the 2011 draft so they didn't exactly get screwed, either.

 

[JMon348]

They don't have to deal him. Bosh didn't get dealt during the season. Neither did James. There are always sign and trades

Yeah, and you see what Toronto and Clev got in the sign and trades. SCREWED.

It was a calculated risk. If the Cavs trade LeBron in midseason, then there's a 0% chance of re-signing him and keeping him in Cleveland. They went all-in to try to get him to stay and actually got a little lucky because they could have ended up with nothing (but instead got two 1st round picks and two 2nd round picks). Also, since the last of those 1st round picks could come in 2017 (after the Wade, Both & LeBron contracts expire), they'll probably end up with a top-5 pick in the end.The Raptors got the #5 pick in the 2011 draft so they didn't exactly get screwed, either.

I think you should do a little more research.

 

[Kev4029]

They don't have to deal him. Bosh didn't get dealt during the season. Neither did James. There are always sign and trades

Yeah, and you see what Toronto and Clev got in the sign and trades. SCREWED.

It was a calculated risk. If the Cavs trade LeBron in midseason, then there's a 0% chance of re-signing him and keeping him in Cleveland. They went all-in to try to get him to stay and actually got a little lucky because they could have ended up with nothing (but instead got two 1st round picks and two 2nd round picks). Also, since the last of those 1st round picks could come in 2017 (after the Wade, Both & LeBron contracts expire), they'll probably end up with a top-5 pick in the end.The Raptors got the #5 pick in the 2011 draft so they didn't exactly get screwed, either.

I think you should do a little more research.

What he said was all correct, and actually the Raptors got two 1st rounders this year from the deal, Miami's and their own back.

 

[[scooter]]

They don't have to deal him. Bosh didn't get dealt during the season. Neither did James. There are always sign and trades

Yeah, and you see what Toronto and Clev got in the sign and trades. SCREWED.

It was a calculated risk. If the Cavs trade LeBron in midseason, then there's a 0% chance of re-signing him and keeping him in Cleveland. They went all-in to try to get him to stay and actually got a little lucky because they could have ended up with nothing (but instead got two 1st round picks and two 2nd round picks). Also, since the last of those 1st round picks could come in 2017 (after the Wade, Both & LeBron contracts expire), they'll probably end up with a top-5 pick in the end.The Raptors got the #5 pick in the 2011 draft so they didn't exactly get screwed, either.

I think you should do a little more research.

About what? Care to enlighten us?

 

[Abraham]

I thought the Bulls had Miami's first rounder.

 

[Kev4029]

I thought the Bulls had Miami's first rounder.

Correct, Toronto traded it to the for James Johnson.

 

[JMon348]

They don't have to deal him. Bosh didn't get dealt during the season. Neither did James. There are always sign and trades

Yeah, and you see what Toronto and Clev got in the sign and trades. SCREWED.

It was a calculated risk. If the Cavs trade LeBron in midseason, then there's a 0% chance of re-signing him and keeping him in Cleveland. They went all-in to try to get him to stay and actually got a little lucky because they could have ended up with nothing (but instead got two 1st round picks and two 2nd round picks). Also, since the last of those 1st round picks could come in 2017 (after the Wade, Both & LeBron contracts expire), they'll probably end up with a top-5 pick in the end.The Raptors got the #5 pick in the 2011 draft so they didn't exactly get screwed, either.

I think you should do a little more research.

About what? Care to enlighten us?

Heat in 2017.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

They don't have to deal him. Bosh didn't get dealt during the season. Neither did James. There are always sign and trades

Yeah, and you see what Toronto and Clev got in the sign and trades. SCREWED.

It was a calculated risk. If the Cavs trade LeBron in midseason, then there's a 0% chance of re-signing him and keeping him in Cleveland. They went all-in to try to get him to stay and actually got a little lucky because they could have ended up with nothing (but instead got two 1st round picks and two 2nd round picks). Also, since the last of those 1st round picks could come in 2017 (after the Wade, Both & LeBron contracts expire), they'll probably end up with a top-5 pick in the end.The Raptors got the #5 pick in the 2011 draft so they didn't exactly get screwed, either.

I think you should do a little more research.

What he said was all correct, and actually the Raptors got two 1st rounders this year from the deal, Miami's and their own back.

And a large trade exception which they can hopefully put to use this summer.

 

[Bobcat10]

And a large trade exception which they can hopefully put to use this summer.

Don't those trade exceptions expire after the draft concludes this week? I could be wrong...

 

[Captain Quinoa]

And a large trade exception which they can hopefully put to use this summer.

Don't those trade exceptions expire after the draft concludes this week? I could be wrong...

July 1

 

[tommyGunZ]

Considering how overpaid Denver got for Melo midseason, i cant see the Magic dealing D12 til they absolutely have to.

That deal looked great at the time largely b/c Denver went on a nice winning streak. The only "keeper" piece is Gallanari, a good young piece, but not a huge prize, IMO. Felton and Chandler are decent players, but Chandler's walking and Felton is a 7.5M backup PG. Mozgov is a non factor.6 months later, it looks like Gallanari and filler for Melo. That doesn't excite me if I'm an Orlando fan.

 

[thecatch]

I was thinking that okc could offer a young star (Westbrook) and perkins. That's certainly more then, say, the lakers could offer.

I was assuming that OKC would be building around Westbrook and Durant. I'm sure ORL would be fine taking on Perkins in that scenario if they had to deal Howard. Haven't seen any indication that OKC is open to moving Westbrook though.

A Westbrook, Perkins, Collison, Nate Robinson, draft picks for Howard, Arenas works in the trade machine.Not sure what to make of a deal like that from either perspective though.

It's been a while since I researched the details on how trades work, but I have trouble seeing how that trade is permissible. Going by hoopshype, those four OKC guys make about $20 million next year, and Howard+Arenas= ~$37m. I could be missing something really obvious here though. Maybe the trade machine is using Collison's 2010/11 salary (of over $13m)?

 

[the moops]

I was thinking that okc could offer a young star (Westbrook) and perkins. That's certainly more then, say, the lakers could offer.

I was assuming that OKC would be building around Westbrook and Durant. I'm sure ORL would be fine taking on Perkins in that scenario if they had to deal Howard. Haven't seen any indication that OKC is open to moving Westbrook though.

A Westbrook, Perkins, Collison, Nate Robinson, draft picks for Howard, Arenas works in the trade machine.Not sure what to make of a deal like that from either perspective though.

It's been a while since I researched the details on how trades work, but I have trouble seeing how that trade is permissible. Going by hoopshype, those four OKC guys make about $20 million next year, and Howard+Arenas= ~$37m. I could be missing something really obvious here though. Maybe the trade machine is using Collison's 2010/11 salary (of over $13m)?

You are right. It does seem to be using Collison's 2010 salary.

 

[tommyGunZ]

They don't have to deal him. Bosh didn't get dealt during the season. Neither did James. There are always sign and trades

Yeah, and you see what Toronto and Clev got in the sign and trades. SCREWED.

It was a calculated risk. If the Cavs trade LeBron in midseason, then there's a 0% chance of re-signing him and keeping him in Cleveland. They went all-in to try to get him to stay and actually got a little lucky because they could have ended up with nothing (but instead got two 1st round picks and two 2nd round picks). Also, since the last of those 1st round picks could come in 2017 (after the Wade, Both & LeBron contracts expire), they'll probably end up with a top-5 pick in the end.The Raptors got the #5 pick in the 2011 draft so they didn't exactly get screwed, either.

Completely agree. If the Magic decide to keep Howard, they're taking the same risks, if not more of a risk (IMO) b/c Howard has supposedly shown interest elsewhere and the $95M guaranteed to Hedo and Gilbert thru 2014 means Orlando has literally no chance of being a championship contender until those deals are gone.Otis Smith better take what he can get for Dwight. The writing is on the wall.

 

[cubd8]

The Magic aren't taking that trade. They also are probably not trading Howard unless Arenas goes with him.

The Magic don't have the leverage. They HAVE to deal him before the trade deadline, or they're finished for 5 years.

That doesn't mean they are taking that trade, and they may have leverage from the new CBA.

 

[cubd8]

I thought the Bulls had Miami's first rounder.

Correct, Toronto traded it to the for James Johnson.

Why Toronto did that helps explain why their team is garbage. Not that the Bulls are likely to cash in with that late pick, but I'd much rather gamble on that pick than James Johnson.

 

[the moops]

I thought the Bulls had Miami's first rounder.

Correct, Toronto traded it to the for James Johnson.

Why Toronto did that helps explain why their team is garbage. Not that the Bulls are likely to cash in with that late pick, but I'd much rather gamble on that pick than James Johnson.

James Johnson was the 16th pick in the 2009 draft. Giving away the Miami pick (28th) if they like the kid is a great move.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I thought the Bulls had Miami's first rounder.

Correct, Toronto traded it to the for James Johnson.

Why Toronto did that helps explain why their team is garbage. Not that the Bulls are likely to cash in with that late pick, but I'd much rather gamble on that pick than James Johnson.

James Johnson was the 16th pick in the 2009 draft. Giving away the Miami pick (28th) if they like the kid is a great move.

Not sure how someone can rag on Johnson when he barely played in Chicago. He was great in Toronto and looks to be far better than the average player they'll get at 28.

 

[cubd8]

I thought the Bulls had Miami's first rounder.

Correct, Toronto traded it to the for James Johnson.

Why Toronto did that helps explain why their team is garbage. Not that the Bulls are likely to cash in with that late pick, but I'd much rather gamble on that pick than James Johnson.

James Johnson was the 16th pick in the 2009 draft. Giving away the Miami pick (28th) if they like the kid is a great move.

They must like him, but from what I had seen of him in 1.5 seasons for the Bulls, there's not much there.

 

[Abraham]

He played well in Toronto. I'd take 9ppg from a late first round pick.

 

[boubucarow]

He played well in Toronto. I'd take 9ppg from a late first round pick.

He wasn't what the Bulls needed (energy) so he was expendable. He more than often was a mistake a second when they did give him time because he pressed.But for the Raptors, I could see him becoming a solid rotation guy if not a 5th starter on a good team.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

He played well in Toronto. I'd take 9ppg from a late first round pick.

And almost 5 rebounds, 3 assists, a block and a steal. He does a bit of everything.Chicago was a contending team and didn't have time to put up with 'rookie mistakes'. Toronto can.

 

[Juxtatarot]

He played well in Toronto. I'd take 9ppg from a late first round pick.

And almost 5 rebounds, 3 assists, a block and a steal. He does a bit of everything.Chicago was a contending team and didn't have time to put up with 'rookie mistakes'. Toronto can.

I agree. This was a good trade for both teams.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Ted Leonsis on his role in the upcoming NBA Draft:

I don’t make the picks. I haven’t done the scouting and I am NOT a professional in this regard. I believe in our scouts and in our front office and know they have been working hard and have seen - countless times - most of the top prospects.As an Owner, I don’t do other people’s jobs. If I did, we would all be in trouble. I am not an armchair GM. I do set strategy and vision but then the professionals execute on tactics and manage to outcomes and quantifiable metrics. I believe that is the best course. I won’t be making or influencing our picks. How could I? I am not prepared in that regard. I didn’t go to see the players play at combines; in Europe; on campus. I didn’t do the interviews, etc. etc....

If only other sports owners felt the same. Hell, if only other sports owners in DC felt the same.