*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (2 Viewers)

[wazoo11]

Seriously, how overrated is Dwayne Wade? At what point does he start catching major heat for the Heat underachieving? Does he get a pass cause he already has a ring, one he only got cause Stern bent Dallas over back in '06?

Spoelstra will be the one who gets fired.

Absolutely. If they lose this series, Spoelstra is gone for sure.Wonder who they'd bring in? Van Gundy maybe?

Spoiler

Phil Jackson

 

[ffldrew]

Seriously, how overrated is Dwayne Wade? At what point does he start catching major heat for the Heat underachieving? Does he get a pass cause he already has a ring, one he only got cause Stern bent Dallas over back in '06?

Spoelstra will be the one who gets fired.

Absolutely. If they lose this series, Spoelstra is gone for sure.Wonder who they'd bring in? Van Gundy maybe?

Which one?

 

[saintfool]

Wonder who they'd bring in? Van Gundy maybe?

stan or jeff? i think SVG would be the only one available. i could see flip saunders or mike d'antoni. larry brown?i'm still convinced that Miami pulls the series out.

 

[Gr00vus]

I swear, this looks like the Cavs from three years ago: James having to try to do it all himself, because he is getting almost no help. He ain't perfect, but his teammates are letting him down big time. Makes you wonder about the makeup of this supporting cast, given their inability to step up at all in the wake of Bosh's absence.

But I thought part of LeBron's greatness was his ability to make those around him better? Battier, Chalmers, DWade, and Hasleem are not bums.

Apart from Wade, those other guys are borderline starters at best, and I think that's being generous.

 

[Popinski]

Seriously, how overrated is Dwayne Wade? At what point does he start catching major heat for the Heat underachieving? Does he get a pass cause he already has a ring, one he only got cause Stern bent Dallas over back in '06?

Spoelstra will be the one who gets fired.

Absolutely. If they lose this series, Spoelstra is gone for sure.Wonder who they'd bring in? Van Gundy maybe?

Spoiler

Phil Jackson

Can't see Riley going after him.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

12 in the 3rd?!

 

[dickey moe]

Keep smilin', Lebron.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Wonder who they'd bring in? Van Gundy maybe?

stan or jeff? i think SVG would be the only one available. i could see flip saunders or mike d'antoni. larry brown?i'm still convinced that Miami pulls the series out.

Stan. I think he'd be a good fit. D'Antoni would be a good fit for them offensively, but a disaster defensively IMO.Jackson is done. Pretty clear from Bill Simmons's interview with him that Phil is done for good.

 

[dickey moe]

Seriously, how overrated is Dwayne Wade? At what point does he start catching major heat for the Heat underachieving? Does he get a pass cause he already has a ring, one he only got cause Stern bent Dallas over back in '06?

Spoelstra will be the one who gets fired.

Absolutely. If they lose this series, Spoelstra is gone for sure.Wonder who they'd bring in? Van Gundy maybe?

Which one?

Gus Van Gundy

 

[tommyGunZ]

I swear, this looks like the Cavs from three years ago: James having to try to do it all himself, because he is getting almost no help. He ain't perfect, but his teammates are letting him down big time. Makes you wonder about the makeup of this supporting cast, given their inability to step up at all in the wake of Bosh's absence.

But I thought part of LeBron's greatness was his ability to make those around him better? Battier, Chalmers, DWade, and Hasleem are not bums.

Apart from Wade, those other guys are borderline starters at best, and I think that's being generous.

Haslem may be a reach, but Battier and Chalmers would start for a lot of NBA teams.

 

[GroveDiesel]

That was a total butt whipping. If Wade can't find his jumpshot and the Heat can't hit at least 30% from the 3 point line, this may be over in 5.

 

[Todem]

Wow.

I have never seen Wade play like that.

Ever.

Something was not right with him tonight. The Heat have always been cryptic about our guys when they are hurt or sick......something was not right from the opening tip with Dwayne.

Either way......season in the balance this Sunday. And I expect the Heat to turn it around and get back into this series. But wow.....other than Chalmers that team should be ashamed of themselves. Piss poor effort tonight. Just perplexing.

Has nothing to do with Spo. This was all on Wade tonight.

All of it.

 

[ffldrew]

Wonder who they'd bring in? Van Gundy maybe?

stan or jeff? i think SVG would be the only one available. i could see flip saunders or mike d'antoni. larry brown?i'm still convinced that Miami pulls the series out.

Stan. I think he'd be a good fit. D'Antoni would be a good fit for them offensively, but a disaster defensively IMO.Jackson is done. Pretty clear from Bill Simmons's interview with him that Phil is done for good.

What about Calipari? Kentucky should be getting a little look at by the NCAA if past form holds.

 

[Todem]

Wonder who they'd bring in? Van Gundy maybe?

stan or jeff? i think SVG would be the only one available. i could see flip saunders or mike d'antoni. larry brown?i'm still convinced that Miami pulls the series out.

Stan. I think he'd be a good fit. D'Antoni would be a good fit for them offensively, but a disaster defensively IMO.Jackson is done. Pretty clear from Bill Simmons's interview with him that Phil is done for good.

What about Calipari? Kentucky should be getting a little look at by the NCAA if past form holds.

They are not bringing in anybody. Spo is not the issue.Wade stunk tonight.....absolutely stunk. How can this team win if Lebron and Wade play like that? Coaching? Come on.And Miami will pull this series out. No doubt in my mind.

 

[saintfool]

uh-oh, clippers fans...

 

[drpill]

Spurs offense when it's clicking is just a thing of beauty.

 

[sports_fan]

Wow.I have never seen Wade play like that.Ever.Something was not right with him tonight. The Heat have always been cryptic about our guys when they are hurt or sick......something was not right from the opening tip with Dwayne.Either way......season in the balance this Sunday. And I expect the Heat to turn it around and get back into this series. But wow.....other than Chalmers that team should be ashamed of themselves. Piss poor effort tonight. Just perplexing.Has nothing to do with Spo. This was all on Wade tonight.All of it.

Wade seems to have a hard time controlling his emotions when things get tough. Get him frustrated and flustered and he loses it. First you have that ridiculous foul on Collison in game 2 then total implosion tonight. He's like a completely different person on and off the court. Great guy off the court, entitled ######## on it. I still like him for the most part but he's losing me with stuff like this.

 

[Popinski]

Wonder who they'd bring in? Van Gundy maybe?

stan or jeff? i think SVG would be the only one available. i could see flip saunders or mike d'antoni. larry brown?i'm still convinced that Miami pulls the series out.

Stan. I think he'd be a good fit. D'Antoni would be a good fit for them offensively, but a disaster defensively IMO.Jackson is done. Pretty clear from Bill Simmons's interview with him that Phil is done for good.

What about Calipari? Kentucky should be getting a little look at by the NCAA if past form holds.

They are not bringing in anybody. Spo is not the issue.Wade stunk tonight.....absolutely stunk. How can this team win if Lebron and Wade play like that? Coaching? Come on.And Miami will pull this series out. No doubt in my mind.

I agree that much of this is on the players, particularly Wade. But Spoelstra doesn't get a pass here. His offensive sets are horribly unimaginative and he really doesn't demonstrate an ability to make solid in-game adjustments.

 

[tommyGunZ]

It's gon' be easy

 

[drpill]

Great second quarter by the Clippers bench, and a terrible one for the Spurs reserves. Eric Bledsoe is real good. I've noticed that the Clips tend to go on runs when Matt Bonner comes in, coincidence?

 

[Moe.]

Go ahead and just ship the trophy to San Antonio, they aren't losing a 7 game series. Hell they haven't even lost a game in something like a month.

 

[flapgreen]

Was Wade mad at Spoelstra because he couldn't hit anything?

 

[saintfool]

Great second quarter by the Clippers bench, and a terrible one for the Spurs reserves. Eric Bledsoe is real good. I've noticed that the Clips tend to go on runs when Matt Bonner comes in, coincidence?

bonner shouldn't get any burn in the playoffs. he showed his lack of nerve in the playoffs to me.

 

[bagger]

It's gon' be easy

this is why i hate james so much.the disrespect he has for the work it takes to win 1 , or 2, or even 3 titles is so great and involves some luck that to think 6, 7, 8 championships just come to you shows how little he understands about the drive to sacrifice everything to accomplish even a piece of that.

 

[flapgreen]

Parker is a bad freaking dude.

 

[Zigg]

A couple of things:

1) A front court consisting of Haslem, Turiaf, Anthony and Pittman has to be the worst in the NBA.

2) This team is lost on offense. They don't seem to run plays, just hope LeBron or Wade do something good.

 

[timschochet]

I know I keep picking the Thunder to win the whole thing but damn, San Antonio just looks like an unstoppable machine out there. So incredibly efficient.

 

[wazoo11]

A couple of things:1) A front court consisting of Haslem, Turiaf, Anthony and Pittman has to be the worst in the NBA.2) This team is lost on offense. They don't seem to run plays, just hope LeBron or Wade do something good.

Color me shocked.

 

[Dought Man]

Not only will MIA not win another game this year, they won't even be IN either of these next two games in the 4th quarter. These guys packed up the plantation...

 

[wazoo11]

How many rebounds did Blake Griffin have tonight?

 

[the moops]

Not only will MIA not win another game this year, they won't even be IN either of these next two games in the 4th quarter. These guys packed up the plantation...

 

[Short Corner]

Who do you want taking your last second shot.. Blake or Chalmers?

Both looked like great looks to me. shurg

Agreed, but I think I'd rather go down with a James/Wade/Bryant "tough" shot than watch these guys miss wide open. Not like anyone thought for a second either of those shots were going in.

eta - yes, even if all of these guys had missed 5 in a row prior.

Seriously? You'd rather a hero shot than a wide open 3 from an above average 3 point shooter? The best thing Kobe did last night was not take a contested shot at the buzzer.

Chalmers is a career 35% shooter from 3, Blake 33%.Chalmers is the 4th best 3 point shooter on the team. Blake at least amazingly appears to be the Lakers best option?

Regardless, more than stats I'd rather have the hero step up. Let the guy that expects to make it take a tough shot over a guy where that may not be the case miss the easy.

Not sure where you're getting your numbers from but Blake is .387 career 3pt shooter which is 65th all-time.

I'm also curious about where you got the idea that Mario Chalmers is a guy who doesn't want the ball in his hands for a big shot. Chalmers has hit a bigger shot than any other player currently in the NBA except maybe Metta World Peace.

I think there are different kind of last second shots.. the half court heave imo isn't near the pressure of a wide open 3.One people expect you to miss, the other people expect you to make. No pressure/all the pressure.

The shot at Kansas definitely counts, and the answer to my question would be I'd take Chalmers. But I'd take my Lebron/Kobe/Wade in a set half court play every time.

If they were actually running a set half court play you might have a point.

 

[Short Corner]

it's not a stretch to say that performance can suffer in pressure situations, or that some people handle pressure better than others.

I didn't think this was a revelation until I came here this morning.

Never underestimate the ability of the data-trumps-reason crowd to find examples of Mike Bibby making a layup with 1:56 left in a close game and use it to suggest role players don't feel pressure on game deciding shots.

Feel free to back your argument with data of your own. However, appealing to reason without support is a losing argument. None of us have any idea what NBA players think or feel in the closing moments of any game or any playoff game. No clue. So there is no way any of us can apply "reason" or "common sense" in this discussion, because none of us have any basis to do so. You need to find another way to support your argument.

I don't know of any source that isolates data in a manner that would accurately illustrate all of the dynamics involved in last second, game deciding shots. The data you and Ferris trumpet certainly doesn't. I don't think that data exists, or is measurable. Again, I'm a stat geek. I love advanced statistics and think that the front offices that have embraced James' type analysis are light years ahead of those who don't, in all sports. But the idea that data is infallible and ignoring dynamics that are not captured is where you and Ferris and I disagree. The closer analysis in baseball is the best analogy I can make.

Ferris posted data for shots in the last :30 to tie or take the lead a few pages back. Didn't really support the faction that believe Kobe should be taking that shot at all cost.

 

[Short Corner]

it's not a stretch to say that performance can suffer in pressure situations, or that some people handle pressure better than others.

I didn't think this was a revelation until I came here this morning.

Never underestimate the ability of the data-trumps-reason crowd to find examples of Mike Bibby making a layup with 1:56 left in a close game and use it to suggest role players don't feel pressure on game deciding shots.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that. Most here are objecting to the notion that role players feel so much more pressure than a super star player that a role player would blow a wide open shot while the super star should be able to hit a tough shot against double or triple coverage.

In fairness, making jump shots in the context of an NBA game is difficult as it is, so I wouldn't characterize role players missing wide open shots as "blowing" them. Simply looking at FG's made vs. FG's missed in the final seconds is a distortion of all of the possible outcomes in play. It ignores a player's individual ability to get his own shot off under distressed circumstances when defensive intensity peaks. When all we're looking at is makes vs. misses, we're oversimplifying a very complex game. The "I'd rather give it to a wide open guy" crowd seems unable to comprehend the fact that defenses don't leave anyone wide open at the end of games, unless attention is diverted elsewhere. And what constitutes "wide open"? It's virtually impossible to quantify such a thing, because "wide open" to one guy means "slightly contested" to another. And "contested" may mean that a defender is crowding a player, but if the shooter pump fakes the defender and is able to get off a clean shot with marginal chances of a blocked shot, is that "wide open" even though a defender was on top of him?

The 'hero ball' strategy is an attempt to oversimplify a complex game. You are basically settling for a game of checkers and allowing the defense to continue to play chess.

 

[Short Corner]

when you're down 1 point, why take a 3pt shot there?sure, it was a good look but that wasn't exactly a high percentage play.

It would have been a long pass, but Blake did have a lane to get the ball to Bynum 0 feet away from the basket in perfect position rather than Blake shooting the 3. That's what I'd like to have seen attempted.

I know I am a day late on most of these but it was Father's Day here yesterday and I was away all day.Down 1 (or 2) with that much time, you want the first clean look so you have an opportunity for a put back. Running the clock down before that point was idiotic. Down 1 with the ball and no shot clock is -EV.

 

[Routilla]

Go Spurs!

 

[Premier]

Both the Spurs and Thunder series are playing back to back games this weekend? Am I reading that correctly?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

It's gon' be easy

this is why i hate james so much.the disrespect he has for the work it takes to win 1 , or 2, or even 3 titles is so great and involves some luck that to think 6, 7, 8 championships just come to you shows how little he understands about the drive to sacrifice everything to accomplish even a piece of that.

Its called playing to the crowd.

 

[matuski]

Who do you want taking your last second shot.. Blake or Chalmers?

Both looked like great looks to me. shurg

Agreed, but I think I'd rather go down with a James/Wade/Bryant "tough" shot than watch these guys miss wide open. Not like anyone thought for a second either of those shots were going in.

eta - yes, even if all of these guys had missed 5 in a row prior.

Seriously? You'd rather a hero shot than a wide open 3 from an above average 3 point shooter? The best thing Kobe did last night was not take a contested shot at the buzzer.

Chalmers is a career 35% shooter from 3, Blake 33%.Chalmers is the 4th best 3 point shooter on the team. Blake at least amazingly appears to be the Lakers best option?

Regardless, more than stats I'd rather have the hero step up. Let the guy that expects to make it take a tough shot over a guy where that may not be the case miss the easy.

Not sure where you're getting your numbers from but Blake is .387 career 3pt shooter which is 65th all-time.

I'm also curious about where you got the idea that Mario Chalmers is a guy who doesn't want the ball in his hands for a big shot. Chalmers has hit a bigger shot than any other player currently in the NBA except maybe Metta World Peace.

I think there are different kind of last second shots.. the half court heave imo isn't near the pressure of a wide open 3.One people expect you to miss, the other people expect you to make. No pressure/all the pressure.

The shot at Kansas definitely counts, and the answer to my question would be I'd take Chalmers. But I'd take my Lebron/Kobe/Wade in a set half court play every time.

If they were actually running a set half court play you might have a point.

You guys sure have some deep seeded hate for Kobe when you can internalize an argument for a bench player over an all time great with it all on the line.

 

[Abraham]

I know I keep picking the Thunder to win the whole thing but damn, San Antonio just looks like an unstoppable machine out there. So incredibly efficient.

I would prefer OKC win it, but I said 20 pages ago with a month left in the season that SA was going to be a tough out. Everyone thinking Duncan is "done" hasn't watched him lately.

 

[matuski]

If they were actually running a set half court play you might have a point.

SC - I enjoy reading your posts a ton. Because of that, I'm going to give you a little advice on dealing with matuski. When matuski gets on the short side of an argument, he tends to stop debating. ~95% of the time, he resorts to calling his opponent a bigot, or accusing his opponent of getting upset, or mocking his opponent for taking a message board discussion so seriously. It's rare to see him admit to a mistake or acknowledge his opponent has something meaningful to say. It's odd tactics for a guy who is wont to naming himself the smartest guy in the room, but it is what it is. If you get all three of his bigot/uspet/soserious go-to retorts, IMO it's best to just declare victory and move on. It's so unlikely to get anything else out of him, it's not worth the trouble.

1) i have 8000 posts here, im not going to say I've never typed that word in these forums.... id be shocked if you could back up 1/10th of your first claim.2) you are upset, ill use this post as exhibit A, thank you.3) you are taking this seriously, see personal attacks in this post as exhibit B4) ive never in my life made any references to being smarter than anyone, but I admit it is tempting at this moment.Oof. Wrong on all counts. eta - I actually generally like your posts here, but Kobe seems to be a personal vendetta for you. gets you away from posting basketball and instead focusing on personal attacks. a shame really.

 

[matuski]

I know I keep picking the Thunder to win the whole thing but damn, San Antonio just looks like an unstoppable machine out there. So incredibly efficient.

I would prefer OKC win it, but I said 20 pages ago with a month left in the season that SA was going to be a tough out. Everyone thinking Duncan is "done" hasn't watched him lately.

Duncan isn't done, but a team can come in and out physical them inside. Is Perkins going to be healthy? I think OKC/SA will be an awesome series. Pop hasn't let Ginobli run wild yet, im interested to see when he plays this wildcard.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Who do you want taking your last second shot.. Blake or Chalmers?

Both looked like great looks to me. shurg

Agreed, but I think I'd rather go down with a James/Wade/Bryant "tough" shot than watch these guys miss wide open. Not like anyone thought for a second either of those shots were going in.

eta - yes, even if all of these guys had missed 5 in a row prior.

Seriously? You'd rather a hero shot than a wide open 3 from an above average 3 point shooter? The best thing Kobe did last night was not take a contested shot at the buzzer.

Chalmers is a career 35% shooter from 3, Blake 33%.Chalmers is the 4th best 3 point shooter on the team. Blake at least amazingly appears to be the Lakers best option?

Regardless, more than stats I'd rather have the hero step up. Let the guy that expects to make it take a tough shot over a guy where that may not be the case miss the easy.

Not sure where you're getting your numbers from but Blake is .387 career 3pt shooter which is 65th all-time.

I'm also curious about where you got the idea that Mario Chalmers is a guy who doesn't want the ball in his hands for a big shot. Chalmers has hit a bigger shot than any other player currently in the NBA except maybe Metta World Peace.

I think there are different kind of last second shots.. the half court heave imo isn't near the pressure of a wide open 3.One people expect you to miss, the other people expect you to make. No pressure/all the pressure.

The shot at Kansas definitely counts, and the answer to my question would be I'd take Chalmers. But I'd take my Lebron/Kobe/Wade in a set half court play every time.

If they were actually running a set half court play you might have a point.

You guys sure have some deep seeded hate for Kobe when you can internalize an argument for a bench player over an all time great with it all on the line.

You keep saying stuff like this instead of actually attempting to validate your side of the argument or disprove the other. Why is that? Plenty of people don't like Kobe but that does not mean the criticism is invalid.

 

[matuski]

You keep saying stuff like this instead of actually attempting to validate your side of the argument or disprove the other. Why is that? Plenty of people don't like Kobe but that does not mean the criticism is invalid.

Just so we are clear. You want me to prove an opinion that I'd rather have one of the best players in the history of the game take a shot with it all on the line over a bench player?

 

[GroveDiesel]

Interesting. So now the Heat are saying that Wade has some sort of a leg injury. Sounds like excuse making to me.

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

Not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6....

Such beautiful schadenfreude to go back and watch that.

Arguably the best trio to ever play the game of basketball.

 

[Gr00vus]

Griffin just doesn't look quite right out there. Paul isn't playing as well as he can either. Clippers have no chance if that continues. All or nothing for them tomorrow.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Griffin just doesn't look quite right out there. Paul isn't playing as well as he can either. Clippers have no chance if that continues. All or nothing for them tomorrow.

I think they'd be better off with Evans out there instead. At least he'll give the energy, rebounding, defense and hustle.

 

[wadegarrett]

Coach Erik Spoelstra approached Dwyane Wade during a timeout, as if to place his hand on the player’s shoulder.“Get out of my [expletive] face!” Wade snapped.

Oof.

 

[matuski]

Interesting. So now the Heat are saying that Wade has some sort of a leg injury. Sounds like excuse making to me.

He didn't look injured to me. Sick maybe, he just seemed sluggish.