*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (7 Viewers)

[Shrugs]

Interesting. If Garnett is there then there is no room for Howard.

ESPN article said they want to keep Bledsoe then do a sign and trade with Bledsoe/Griffin for Howard.

As honorary Lakers GM, I accept.

 

[Abraham]

Bledsoe and griffin to the lakers for Howard would be a ridiculous get for the lakers. They'd need to trade gasol at that point, right?

 

[Juxtatarot]

Bledsoe and griffin to the lakers for Howard would be a ridiculous get for the lakers. They'd need to trade gasol at that point, right?

Why? Gasol's game would mesh well with Blake's. And who else would the Lakers start at center?

 

[Abraham]

That's a good point. Gasol back at center would be great for them.

 

[Raider Nation]

That's a good point. Gasol back at center would be great for them.

Not a problem on offense, as he could just hang at the high post. But what if he gets backed down on D by a physical center? He's soft as tissue paper.

 

[Juxtatarot]

That's a good point. Gasol back at center would be great for them.

Not a problem on offense, as he could just hang at the high post. But what if he gets backed down on D by a physical center? He's soft as tissue paper.

Who are these physical centers in the NBA these days that consistently back guys down?

 

[Raider Nation]

That's a good point. Gasol back at center would be great for them.

Not a problem on offense, as he could just hang at the high post. But what if he gets backed down on D by a physical center? He's soft as tissue paper.

Who are these physical centers in the NBA these days that consistently back guys down?

As soon as they see Gasol protecting the rim, they'll become physical.

 

[The Kansas Comet]

That's a good point. Gasol back at center would be great for them.

Not a problem on offense, as he could just hang at the high post. But what if he gets backed down on D by a physical center? He's soft as tissue pa

The Lakers would want to keep Pau for his expiring contract regardless of his lack of physicality on defense. And aside from Hibbert, Howard, and perhaps Brook Lopez, there wouldn't too many centers able to significantly exploit that weakness.

 

[Juxtatarot]

That's a good point. Gasol back at center would be great for them.

Not a problem on offense, as he could just hang at the high post. But what if he gets backed down on D by a physical center? He's soft as tissue pa

The Lakers would want to keep Pau for his expiring contract regardless of his lack of physicality on defense. And aside from Hibbert, Howard, and perhaps Brook Lopez, there wouldn't too many centers able to significantly exploit that weakness.

Right. And two of those centers are extremely unlikely to face the Lakers in the playoffs.

 

[Abraham]

I don't think I'd give up griffin for Howard by himself, much less with Bledsoe. If griffin is available...

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Doc Rivers - C - Celtics
The Clippers are preparing to move on without Doc Rivers and could offer their coaching job to Lionel Hollins or Brian Shaw.
After an afternoon full of rumors, this comes along. Of course, there is always a lot of cloak and dagger with any trade rumor and the Clippers could just be posturing. Hollins and Shaw could both be great coaches in the NBA, so it would make sense for the Clippers not to dump too much into getting a new coach.
Related: Pacers, Clippers, Grizzlies

Source: Brad Turner on Twitter

 

[Abraham]

If the leagues best power forward under age 28 who is immensely popular is available I'm calling the clips and offering the farm if I'm morey. Give me harden and griffin as my two max guys for the next five years - works for me. Give them Asik, Robinson, parsons and a future first. Tell them you'll take Jordan's contract too, and they can keep Bledsoe to acquire affalo. Sign Iggy or granger to play the three or role with delfino and Garcia. But if griffin is available if much rather have him than Howard.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I don't think I'd give up griffin for Howard by himself, much less with Bledsoe. If griffin is available...

Right, Paul is the key to this. If he says he's going to ATL with Howard unless the trade is made, that changes everything.

 

[sporthenry]

Doc Rivers - C - Celtics
The Clippers are preparing to move on without Doc Rivers and could offer their coaching job to Lionel Hollins or Brian Shaw.
After an afternoon full of rumors, this comes along. Of course, there is always a lot of cloak and dagger with any trade rumor and the Clippers could just be posturing. Hollins and Shaw could both be great coaches in the NBA, so it would make sense for the Clippers not to dump too much into getting a new coach.
Related: Pacers, Clippers, Grizzlies

Source: Brad Turner on Twitter

Makes sense. They said they like Hollins almost as much and if Ainge wants to play hard ball, the C's won't get anything. Makes no sense from their perspective. I guess it sucks to see your guys go elsewhere and compete but they ain't going anywhere now as it is.

I don't think the Clippers lose out that much. KG, Pierce and Doc might have made it a bit more attractive to CP3 or Howard but those are the guys they and everyone else are all in on.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Would that be the first trade for a coach???

 

[Abraham]

Is Asik, parsons, and Robinson a better offer for griffin then Howard?

 

[Juxtatarot]

Is Asik, parsons, and Robinson a better offer for griffin then Howard?

Of course not.

 

[Abraham]

Is Asik, parsons, and Robinson a better offer for griffin then Howard?

Of course not.

Really? At half the price? And without Bledsoe involved?

 

[Juxtatarot]

Is Asik, parsons, and Robinson a better offer for griffin then Howard?

Of course not.

Really? At half the price? And without Bledsoe involved?

If you trade a star you hope to get a star in return. Houston only has one star and he's staying put.

 

[Abraham]

That's a fair point. I just can't believe the clippers would trade Griffin for anyone other than a top 10 player. Giving up he and Bledsoe for Howard - who is great but may never be what he once was - seems bizarre.

 

[Premier]

Is Asik, parsons, and Robinson a better offer for griffin then Howard?

LMAO

 

[Abraham]

Is Asik, parsons, and Robinson a better offer for griffin then Howard?

LMAO

That's a better offer than Orlando got a year ago.

 

[Premier]

Is Asik, parsons, and Robinson a better offer for griffin then Howard?

LMAO

That's a better offer than Orlando got a year ago.

Not really, and Griffin was on the table then?

 

[Mentos]

I enjoy the Mike Miller commercial that MLBN shows a lot. Bold flavor.

 

[the moops]

Yeah, I don't get it. Ginobli is one of the most exciting players there is, if you can get past the flopping.

Cant

 

[Mentos]

Would that be the first trade for a coach???

There have been trades involving head coaches and managers in the NFL and MLB, respectively. I am not sure about the NBA. Will lay down and think about this.

 

[Short Corner]

That's a fair point. I just can't believe the clippers would trade Griffin for anyone other than a top 10 player. Giving up he and Bledsoe for Howard - who is great but may never be what he once was - seems bizarre.

Why would any GM give up a top 10 -player for Blake?

 

[thecatch]

Kings hired the nuggets asst GM to be their new GM. Denver is really starting from scratch in the front office.

 

[Abraham]

So the "lynchpin" in the Boston deal is apparently Bledsoe. Boston wants him in the deal, which is curious considering they have rondo. Knee injury and all you'd think Boston would be looking to trade one of the two.

 

[Zaxxon]

So the "lynchpin" in the Boston deal is apparently Bledsoe. Boston wants him in the deal, which is curious considering they have rondo. Knee injury and all you'd think Boston would be looking to trade one of the two.

They also have Avery Bradley so unless they're looking to build a lottery team around 3 guards it would make more sense to flip Rondo for picks and just bottom out at this point.

 

[Kev4029]

So the "lynchpin" in the Boston deal is apparently Bledsoe. Boston wants him in the deal, which is curious considering they have rondo. Knee injury and all you'd think Boston would be looking to trade one of the two.

Rondo is a headcase and I don't think they've been happy with him for years.

 

[Kev4029]

Kings hired the nuggets asst GM to be their new GM. Denver is really starting from scratch in the front office.

Kroenke thinks he is the savior of the franchise and thinks he is capable of doing all the work.

 

[Kev4029]

Is Asik, parsons, and Robinson a better offer for griffin then Howard?

This is even bad for a Abe trade.

 

[Abraham]

Rondos contract is a great deal. They aren't finding a point guard for 11 million that's better anytime soon. The only remotely comparable pg that are cheaper are on rookie deals and will eventually make a lot more than rondo.

 

[Kev4029]

So the "lynchpin" in the Boston deal is apparently Bledsoe. Boston wants him in the deal, which is curious considering they have rondo. Knee injury and all you'd think Boston would be looking to trade one of the two.

Rondo is a headcase and I don't think they've been happy with him for years.

Good point. Rondo's contract made sense with other expensive players like KG, Pierce, and Allen around. With one of them gone and at least one other one their way out, what's the point of paying Rondo so much jing to finish 8th in the East? Let two guys on rookie deals run the point and grab a high pick in next year's draft.

Who would take Rondo with $25M over two years though? It would have to be a good team, Rondo would be a nightmare for a bad team and like you said, that's a lot of money to pay a player that has peaked if the team isn't going anywhere. I think he would fit well with Indiana, but it would have to be a three team trade with somebody taking Granger and the Celtics getting somebody young back (Rondo to Indiana, Granger to Houston, Robinson and firsts from Indiana and Houston to Boston?), other than that, I'm not sure anybody would be happy to take Rondo with the price its going to cost in assets and salary.

 

[Abraham]

So the "lynchpin" in the Boston deal is apparently Bledsoe. Boston wants him in the deal, which is curious considering they have rondo. Knee injury and all you'd think Boston would be looking to trade one of the two.

Rondo is a headcase and I don't think they've been happy with him for years.

Good point. Rondo's contract made sense with other expensive players like KG, Pierce, and Allen around. With one of them gone and at least one other one their way out, what's the point of paying Rondo so much jing to finish 8th in the East? Let two guys on rookie deals run the point and grab a high pick in next year's draft.

Who would take Rondo with $25M over two years though? It would have to be a good team, Rondo would be a nightmare for a bad team and like you said, that's a lot of money to pay a player that has peaked if the team isn't going anywhere. I think he would fit well with Indiana, but it would have to be a three team trade with somebody taking Granger and the Celtics getting somebody young back (Rondo to Indiana, Granger to Houston, Robinson and firsts from Indiana and Houston to Boston?), other than that, I'm not sure anybody would be happy to take Rondo with the price its going to cost in assets and salary.

As a Houston fan I'd be game for that.

 

[Zaxxon]

So the "lynchpin" in the Boston deal is apparently Bledsoe. Boston wants him in the deal, which is curious considering they have rondo. Knee injury and all you'd think Boston would be looking to trade one of the two.

Rondo is a headcase and I don't think they've been happy with him for years.

Good point. Rondo's contract made sense with other expensive players like KG, Pierce, and Allen around. With one of them gone and at least one other one their way out, what's the point of paying Rondo so much jing to finish 8th in the East? Let two guys on rookie deals run the point and grab a high pick in next year's draft.

Who would take Rondo with $25M over two years though? It would have to be a good team, Rondo would be a nightmare for a bad team and like you said, that's a lot of money to pay a player that has peaked if the team isn't going anywhere. I think he would fit well with Indiana, but it would have to be a three team trade with somebody taking Granger and the Celtics getting somebody young back (Rondo to Indiana, Granger to Houston, Robinson and firsts from Indiana and Houston to Boston?), other than that, I'm not sure anybody would be happy to take Rondo with the price its going to cost in assets and salary.

As a Houston fan I'd be game for that.

We need to get Scola and Lowry into this deal somehow.

 

[Kev4029]

Rondos contract is a great deal. They aren't finding a point guard for 11 million that's better anytime soon. The only remotely comparable pg that are cheaper are on rookie deals and will eventually make a lot more than rondo.

Curry makes about $20M over then next two, Lawson makes about $22M and Conley makes $17M.

 

[Abraham]

Rondos contract is a great deal. They aren't finding a point guard for 11 million that's better anytime soon. The only remotely comparable pg that are cheaper are on rookie deals and will eventually make a lot more than rondo.

Curry makes about $20M over then next two, Lawson makes about $22M and Conley makes $17M.

What do the rest of those contracts look like? And I don't accept the premise that Conley and Lawson are comparable.

 

[Kev4029]

Rondos contract is a great deal. They aren't finding a point guard for 11 million that's better anytime soon. The only remotely comparable pg that are cheaper are on rookie deals and will eventually make a lot more than rondo.

Curry makes about $20M over then next two, Lawson makes about $22M and Conley makes $17M.

What do the rest of those contracts look like? And I don't accept the premise that Conley and Lawson are comparable.

Lawson makes 10.8/11.6/12.4/13.2

Conley makes 8.2/8.9/9.6

Curry makes 9.9/10.6/11.4/21.1

I really believe that Memphis, GS and Denver would all turn down the PG for Rondo trade while Boston would accept for each of them, especially Lawson and Curry.

 

[Abraham]

Fair point about the trades. I think there are a number of teams (new Orleans, Utah) that would be glad to acquire rondo at his present cost if he were available.

 

[Mentos]

Watching the NBA might be cool again if you make a drinking game involving flopping.

 

[Abraham]

What about rondo to the pelicans for the 6 and Gordon? New Orleans gets a quality point guard and gets mulligan on the Gordon deal. Boston gets the 6 which can be spent on a player like Len to put next to green.

 

[Mentos]

What about rondo to the pelicans for the 6 and Gordon? New Orleans gets a quality point guard and gets mulligan on the Gordon deal. Boston gets the 6 which can be spent on a player like Len to put next to green.

the Pelicans would have to do that trade

 

[Kev4029]

Fair point about the trades. I think there are a number of teams (new Orleans, Utah) that would be glad to acquire rondo at his present cost if he were available.

Utah makes sense, something like Hayward and the 14th pick or whatever Utah has. New Orleans could make sense if they could sign somebody like JJ Reddick to play SG, but I'm not sure that Boston would want to take on Gordon's contract. I also think that New Orleans is the most likely team to throw #### tons of money at Iggy.

 

[Abraham]

The Hpuston chronicle posted an article last night that may as well have been written by the rockets pr staff. It probably was. Not tampering, but the whole piece was basically a huge billboard declaring that the time for collecting assets is over and the team is prepared to go well in to the tax range for the right veterans. Basically a homing beacon to Howard and Paul (plan a), smith and iggy (plan b) and everyone else available that they want some guys to sign.

For the record, my prediction for next years starting five is Lin, harden, parsons, smith, and Howard. Beverly, smith, Garcia (re-signed at a reduced rate), jones and donuts are the main 10 guys.

 

[Raider Nation]

What are we thinking about tonight's game? Total coin flip? The Vegas line would seem to indicate that.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

What are we thinking about tonight's game? Total coin flip? The Vegas line would seem to indicate that.

Spurs by at least a dozen

 

[Raider Nation]

R.J. Bell: This is just the 14th time in 14 years that the Spurs have been home underdogs.

 

[Raider Nation]

SI.com

1. Who or what has been the most pleasant surprise of the series?

Ben Golliver: David Stern and Stu Jackson should fine anyone who doesnt pick Spurs guard Danny Green on this one. Greens NBA rags-to-riches story was already appealing entering the Finals, but his ability to seemingly hit every single shot that hes taken against the Heat has made his out-of-nowhere rise to Finals MVP candidate the irresistible feel-good story of the summer. Green is hitting an astonishing 50.5 percent of his threes in the postseason and hes shooting 19-for-28 (67.9 percent) from deep in the Finals. Those numbers are so high he could go oh-fer the rest of the series and his percentages still wouldnt have come back to Earth.

Greens reliable commitment on the defensive end has been overshadowed by his marksmanship, which is understandable, but its worth noting that hes approached a variety of tough matchups throughout the postseason with great effort and technique. Finally, his ability to successfully navigate towards the mental middle ground between I never thought I would be here in a million years and Im not just happy to be here, we want to win a title is just one more reason to show him some love.

Rob Mahoney: Green is the definitive pick here, but Ive also been very impressed with Gary Neals play of late. Neal isnt offering any production that could be considered out of character his 12-of-22 shooting from three is damn impressive, though representative of his greatest NBA appeal but also doing so while making good decisions across the board. Neals shot selection can be horrendous at times, yet in this series, Neal has canned the bad attempts or at least saved them for the final, desperate moments at the end of the shot clock. Hes making really smart passes that the regular-season-Neal wouldnt have made. His defense, which is regularly lacking, has been largely solid. Hes hit his stride from the three-point line (54.5 percent in the Finals) after a tough shooting season (a career-low 35.5 percent), and with that shooting has helped Gregg Popovich to fill out big and small lineups alike. The Spurs have gotten all of the good from Neal with exceedingly little of the bad, which makes for a welcome surprise with a player who can so often shoot his way out of favor.

2. Who or what has been the biggest disappointment of the series?

Mahoney: Manu Ginobili is the easy call here, and Ill stick to the script. Tony Parkers hamstring strain has only heightened the importance of the Spurs support playmakers, but in these Finals to date Ginobili has failed to produce all that much off the dribble. His shooting (34.5 percent overall, 18.8 percent from three) has been dreadful in part because hes having trouble getting anywhere off the bounce. Aside from the openings he creates by occasionally luring Heat defenders into biting on one of his pump fakes, Manu is having an incredibly hard time creating driving or passing lanes on a regular basis. As a result, hes settling more often than is usual of him or of any Spur, throwing overly ambitious passes even by his standards, and generally dragging down San Antonios entire offense in the process. For some quantitative clarity: Per NBA Wowy, the Spurs have scored at a rate of just 92.2 points per 100 possessions in this series with Ginobil on the floor without Parker, compared to 111.0 points per 100 possessions in the Finals in general. That brutal dip has cost San Antonio dearly, and given Miami a chance to rally back on several occasions.

Golliver: The consensus among the media at the Finals is building quickly around Manu Ginobili, but Ill zag to all those who are zigging and say Tony Parker. Part of the disappointment here, obviously, has to do with Parkers strained hamstring. Any injury to a key player at this stage of the game in such a competitive Finals is a major bummer, in and of itself.

Past that, Im not sure that weve seen Parker at the full force of his powers during this series, even in Game 1, where he hit a shot for the ages to clinch the road win. Am I being too hard on him? I dont think so just think back to his 37-point, 6-assist effort in the closeout win over the Grizzlies in the Western Conference finals. His scoring and shooting numbers in the Finals 13.8 points on 43.4 percent shooting are well down from San Antonios three previous series. Yes, major credit is due to Miamis defense and we must account for the impact of three straight blowouts throwing off the numbers a bit, but Parker hasnt yet hit the game-changing superhero status he flashed against both Memphis and Golden State. Heres hoping that the hamstring doesnt prevent him from getting there as the rest of the series unfolds.

3. Whats one adjustment you expect to see in Game 5?

Golliver: I expect the Spurs to tighten up on their perimeter passing and ball-handling. The turnover issue has been a major storyline throughout the Finals, with San Antonio vacillating between extraordinary and awful when it comes to taking care of the rock. The Heat are capable of jacking up the intensity level on defense at a moments notice, and the Spurs seemed caught off guard and/or overwhelmed at times by Miamis relentless activity in Game 4. There were plenty of issues: slow crosscourt passes, rushed entry feeds, and frantic dribbling and shaky decision-making under ball pressure, to name three. San Antonio has prided itself for years on its discipline, and I expect to see a sharper performance from the Spurs in Game 5.

Mahoney: I expect Popovich and the Spurs to specifically address the pick-and-rolls between Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh that wrapped up Game 4 as a win for the Heat. By moving both the location of the screen (from the three-point line to the elbow) and Boshs ensuing action (from popping out for a jumper to rolling toward the rim), Miami was able to generate quick, efficient offense that was difficult for San Antonio to read and counter. The Heat will undoubtedly turn to that action again to get either Wade or Bosh going, perhaps as early as the first quarter. But it should be interesting to see what the Spurs defense shows in response be it a minor tweak in its existing coverage, a more deliberate switch, or a greater level of help from the perimeter.

4. Has anything happened in in the first four games that has made you second-guess your series prediction?

Mahoney: A great many things. I picked the Heat to win in seven, and though the series has again swayed to make that prediction viable, the reasoning behind my pick has been challenged at every turn. Simply: I expected LeBron James to have a more obviously dominant offensive series, a possibility which the Spurs have stemmed and countered even more effectively than I would have expected. San Antonio is an elite defensive team, but the way in which theyve collapsed on James without surrendering too many openings to Miamis perimeter shooters is proof alone of their exceptional execution. Kawhi Leonard deserves credit for doing nice work as the initial line of defense on James, but the crowd of help defenders looming in the background of every James drive or post-up has at times made this look like a series the Spurs are destined to win.

The up-and-down play of Bosh and Wade is, of course, directly related to James occasional difficulties in orchestrating Miamis offense. Yet a lesser or even a less flexible team wouldnt take such consistent advantage of the Heats shortcomings as the Spurs have in these Finals, all of which facilitates their ability to hone in on James and deny him much of what he does best.

Golliver: Absolutely. This series has taken vicious pendulum swings after virtually every game. I had Spurs in six before the series started. After Game 1, I was feeling confident. After Game 2, it seemed conceivable that Miami had turned the tables enough to win in six. After Game 3, Spurs in five seemed like a legitimate possibility. After Game 4, Heat in seven seems like the safest best.

So much of that instability can be traced back to the Heats up-and-down effort on defense and Wades high highs and low lows. There isnt a team in the world that can beat Miami when the Big 3 play as well as they did in Game 4 (85 combined points, 30 combined rebounds, nine combined assists, three excellent individual defensive efforts) and I honestly didnt think that they would play that well in the Finals, given Wades health and Boshs inconsistency in the postseason. Now that theyve done it, and have two or three more chances to do it again, its hard not to re-assess a full 48 minutes of two-way excellence from a trio of All-Stars will make you second-guess picking against them real quick. Even still, the Heat remain a long way from home and a repeat showing from Wade is no guarantee. In other words, I wont totally abandon my original prediction just yet.

5. Who wins Game 5?

Golliver: As noted in the question directly above this one, making a reasonably certain pick (and sticking to it) is essentially impossible in this series. That said, Im rooting for the Finals to go a full seven games, and a Spurs win in Game 5, given the homecourt advantage setup in the 2-3-2 format, would make it more likely that the two teams keep playing until Thursday. Both Tim Duncan and Tony Parker referred to Game 5 as a must-win on Saturday and while neither has played to their full capabilities so far against the Heat, I trust that both will show up with their A games on Sunday. Ill take San Antonio in a tight one.

Mahoney: I have a sneaking suspicion that Miami will win consecutive games in a series for the first time since the start of the Eastern Conference finals. That said, it seems impossible to guess as to how any particular game might actually turn out; San Antonio and Miami have played to a draw overall, and yet three of the four games thus far have been turned on massive, blowout-style runs. It seems like Game 5 should be close, but with the way this series has gone, we shouldnt be surprised if a tight first half results in a 20-point win for either team. Either way, even the runaway wins in these Finals tend to provide a wonderful basketball product, which would be best served by this series going the distance.