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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (7 Viewers)

tommyGunZ said:
Abraham said:
tommyGunZ said:
Abraham said:
sports_fan said:
Melo with the most points in NBA history without a turnover
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Maybe he's not a top 10 player anymore, but he's really good and worth the max contract he's about to get.
Click to expand...
He's a top 10 player.
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I'm a huge fan and would love him in Houston but...

Lebron

Durant

George

Love

Paul

Davis

Harden

Howard

Curry

Aldridge

Griffin

Westbrook

You sure?
Click to expand...
Melo the player is better than most on this list.

As an asset, he moves down the list due to age and $
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If the Lakers somehow make a long term, max contract commitment to Anthony, I'll be very, very sad.

 
Gr00vus said:
tommyGunZ said:
Abraham said:
tommyGunZ said:
Abraham said:
sports_fan said:
Melo with the most points in NBA history without a turnover
Click to expand...
Maybe he's not a top 10 player anymore, but he's really good and worth the max contract he's about to get.
Click to expand...
He's a top 10 player.
Click to expand...
I'm a huge fan and would love him in Houston but...

Lebron

Durant

George

Love

Paul

Davis

Harden

Howard

Curry

Aldridge

Griffin

Westbrook

You sure?
Click to expand...
Melo the player is better than most on this list.

As an asset, he moves down the list due to age and $
Click to expand...
If the Lakers somehow make a long term, max contract commitment to Anthony, I'll be very, very sad.
Click to expand...
If you're against brining in Olympic starters, I hope you are ready for 3-4 more losing seasons.

 
Abraham said:
tommyGunZ said:
Abraham said:
sports_fan said:
Melo with the most points in NBA history without a turnover
Click to expand...
Maybe he's not a top 10 player anymore, but he's really good and worth the max contract he's about to get.
Click to expand...
He's a top 10 player.
Click to expand...
I'm a huge fan and would love him in Houston but...

Lebron

Durant

George

Love

Paul

Davis

Harden

Howard

Curry

Aldridge

Griffin

Westbrook

You sure?
Click to expand...
Griffin is just as bad as Melo on defense and not in the same stratosphere offensively. Not sure how you can even consider him for this list.

 
Britney Spears said:
Man, Milwaukee is just so bad. What happened to Larry Sanders?
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He got paid.

I expect them to deal him soon (while others believe he's capable of 'bouncing back') and throw Henson (who's clearly been the better player) in the starting lineup. Amazing to me they keep Henson coming off the bench to begin with. He's their best player IMO. Not sure why they're so hesitant to play Sanders & Henson together. Henson isn't offensively or defensively challenged.

 
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Long Ball Larry said:
I don't know if Durant should be allowed to play in the NBA. just effortlessly good.
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The West is going to be fun to watch. But the Sixers are setting themselves up to be exactly where they want to be especially give their start. Now in the bottom 3 although gap between them and 7th is only 2 games. They could catch the Magic for 2nd worst record but don't see anyone topping the Bucks. But the more exciting part is that the Pelicans are 11th and possibly in tank mode. It is going to take a lot for the Pelicans to drop into the bottom 5. Sixers are probably looking at 2 top 10 picks. It'll be interesting if the Pelicans end up 5th so the Sixers are essentially rooting for a team outside the top 5 to get a top 3 selection and push the Sixers down in the draft but ensure they get 2 top 6 picks.

 
It'll be interesting to see how Ross follows up his big game tonight. "Big" game vs Brooklyn and Derozan won't be playing so he'll probably get 15-20 shots.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
It'll be interesting to see how Ross follows up his big game tonight. "Big" game vs Brooklyn and Derozan won't be playing so he'll probably get 15-20 shots.
Click to expand...
Brandon Jennings 2.0 (simply referencing Jennings 51 pt game and a whole lot of nothing after)

 
simmonjm said:
Cliff Clavin said:
It'll be interesting to see how Ross follows up his big game tonight. "Big" game vs Brooklyn and Derozan won't be playing so he'll probably get 15-20 shots.
Click to expand...
Brandon Jennings 2.0 (simply referencing Jennings 51 pt game and a whole lot of nothing after)
Click to expand...
Yeah it was kind of surprising but with the way Lowry and JV were abusing the Nets they didn't really look to him for his offence. He played great D, as usual, on Johnson. I was kind of expecting a 18-22 point game on about that many shots.

Please, please no Jennings comparison :X

 
In January, Oladipo has shown signs of becoming a very good full-time starter. The Magic rookie is averaging 15.6 points, 5.1 rebounds, and 4.3 assists while cutting his turnovers down to 2.9. His three-point percentage is right above 30 percent and his True Shooting has jumped up to 54 percent, one full percent above league average. That's in a span of 14 games and 503 minutes, a sample size high enough to suggest that he might sustain these numbers.

For the entire season, Oladipo has registered a True Shooting, effective Field Goal percentage, and free throw rate higher than those of Philadelphia 76ers guard Michael Carter-Williams and Utah Jazz guard Trey Burke. According to mySynergySports, He's scoring more points per possession in isolation (.86) than Carter-Williams (.72) and Burke (.69); he's also scoring more points per possession as the pick-and-roll ballhandler (.79) than Carter-Williams (.72) and is tied with Burke in that category. Oladipo is also shooting better inside the restricted area than both of the other highly touted rookie guard.
Click to expand...
http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2014/1/28/5352488/orlando-magic-victor-oladipo-tobias-harris-stats-analysis-nba

#gunz

 
sporthenry said:
TobiasFunke said:
sporthenry said:
Juxtatarot said:
Timmay said:
Some players that aren't on the roster that I think should be: John Wall
Click to expand...
7 PGs are on the list. I don't think they want to drop Rose due to injury. I don't have an issue with him being off. The U.S. is deep in PGs.
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That and the fact he can't shoot will make it tough for him to make it going forward. He was invited to last year's camp but remember even Rose is a better 3 point shooter. Only PG near as bad shooting wise is Westbrook. It is weird to see Beal make it over Wall but that is why Beal, Korver, and Klay Thompson all got invites.
Click to expand...
His shooting numbers are similar to Irving's across the board this year and superior in pretty much every other facet of the game (every NBA analyst I read had him over Irving in their All-Star picks). His shooting numbers are also similar to Rose's from the last time Rose was healthy. too. Lillard's better from 3 but worse inside the arc. That leaves only Paul, Curry, and Lillard from deep as clearly superior shooters.

The notion that he can't shoot is outdated. It's still not a strength but it's not the disaster it once was. The fact that he can at least hit the three about a third of the time is all he needs- it prevents defenders from slacking off him like they did in his first two seasons.
Click to expand...
So 31.8% from 3 is close to 37.3% from 3? From everything I've heard on ESPN tonight about the ASG, the biggest reason they put Wall ahead of Irving was b/c Wall's team is good and Irving's team sucks. As far as shooting, of course he is better inside the arc than Lillard b/c he is a better finisher at the rim. But for the international game, the 3 is more important. If you look at Vorped shots outside the paint but inside the arc, Wall is 104/282 for 36.9% compared to Lillard at 48/101 at 47.5%. Yes, Wall shoots 62% at the rim compared to Lillard at 46% but that isn't really helping your case about better shooter. Similarly, Irving is at 41%.

They are better shooters than Wall. The only PGs who shoot as bad are Rose and Westbrook. Both of them have previous experience with team USA so they probably get in b/c of that.
Click to expand...
Irving wasn't at 37.8% when I'd last checked. Sure, he's a slightly better outside shooter than Wall- his numbers have gone up a bit in the last two weeks and Wall's have dipped a bit. And yeah, Lillard's a better jump shooter than Wall, I'd agree with that.

But I disagree with the suggestion that Irving and Wall have been comparable overall. What ESPN tells you about why Wall should have been ahead of Irving is probably true, but that misses the "why" part of the analysis. Wall's been the better player- their PER (offense only) numbers are identical, and while Wall is only an average defender, Irving is abysmal. More importantly. Wall's entire team is vastly better with him on the floor in a way that Irving's is not (although some of that may be the difference in backups). So yeah, most people preferred him because the Wiz have a better record, but that's kind of backwards on the cause and effect thing.

As for the international game- of course 3 point shooting is important, but last time I checked they count the same no matter who makes them. Wall's entire team shoots 38% from 3 (5th in the league) compared to 36% for the Cavs (16th in the league), despite having the handicap of Wall being worse than Irving from 3 and also having a far weaker backup PG. And it's not because he's got talented shooters around him either- multiple vets have seen jumps in their 3% since joining Wall. In other words, he's such a good driver and passer that the open looks he finds for others from 3 he more than makes up for the disparity in his own 3 point shooting.

Finally, you said Westbrook is the only PG "near as bad shooting wise." That's what I took issue with. I wasn't arguing he's a better or equal shooter, only that it's not the night and day comparison you made it out to be.

 
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Wall isn't as good a fit for international ball as the glut of other PGs team USA has, you're making it out to be too complicated and some kind of personal attack on Wall's game.

And lmao at Irving being a "slightly better outside shooter" than John Wall.

 
Agree with Tobias' post (at least with regard to the defensive value added) except for the proposition that Irving is only a "slightly better" outside shooter. Irving is a nearly 39% career shooter from downtown on nearly twice as many career attempts as Wall. Let's not pretend they are comparable there.

Also not buying the attempt to minimize the supporting cast issue. No question wall is surrounded by more complimentary pieces.

 
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scoobus said:
Wall isn't as good a fit for international ball as the glut of other PGs team USA has, you're making it out to be too complicated and some kind of personal attack on Wall's game.

And lmao at Irving being a "slightly better outside shooter" than John Wall.
Click to expand...
There's a glut of PGs, sure, but I don't buy the "good fit for international ball" argument for the reasons I explained. Anyway, I was mostly just addressing the suggestion that the only reason people were saying Wall got the shaft on the ASG starting bid was because his team is better. His team is better in part because he makes it better in ways that Irving does not. He passes better, rebounds better and plays better defense. I don't much care about Team USA and I care even less if Wall gets cut from it now vs. later.

I agree, "slightly" better was understating it on my part. Irving's recovered somewhat from a poor start to the season and has a clear advantage there.

 
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TobiasFunke said:
scoobus said:
Wall isn't as good a fit for international ball as the glut of other PGs team USA has, you're making it out to be too complicated and some kind of personal attack on Wall's game.

And lmao at Irving being a "slightly better outside shooter" than John Wall.
Click to expand...
There's a glut of PGs, sure, but I don't buy the "good fit for international ball" argument for the reasons I explained. Anyway, I was mostly just addressing the suggestion that the only reason people were saying Wall got the shaft on the ASG starting bid was because his team is better. His team is better in part because he makes it better in ways that Irving does not. He passes better, rebounds better and plays better defense. I don't much care about Team USA and I care even less if Wall gets cut from it now vs. later.

I agree, "slightly" better was understating it on my part. Irving's recovered somewhat from a poor start to the season and has a clear advantage there.
Click to expand...
I think we're in agreement here. My post was fully regarding Team USA, which I am very much into and follow closely. I'll again echo the same sentiments that Wall is not nearly as good a fit on that roster as the other guards who will make it.

As far as this NBA season is concerned, you'll get no argument from me on the value that John Wall has brought to the table this year, especially in comparison to Kyrie Irving. In fact, I don't think there's a more overrated player in the game right now than Kyrie (who was ranked #8 overall by the ESPN player ranking before the year).

 
scoobus said:
TobiasFunke said:
scoobus said:
Wall isn't as good a fit for international ball as the glut of other PGs team USA has, you're making it out to be too complicated and some kind of personal attack on Wall's game.

And lmao at Irving being a "slightly better outside shooter" than John Wall.
Click to expand...
There's a glut of PGs, sure, but I don't buy the "good fit for international ball" argument for the reasons I explained. Anyway, I was mostly just addressing the suggestion that the only reason people were saying Wall got the shaft on the ASG starting bid was because his team is better. His team is better in part because he makes it better in ways that Irving does not. He passes better, rebounds better and plays better defense. I don't much care about Team USA and I care even less if Wall gets cut from it now vs. later.

I agree, "slightly" better was understating it on my part. Irving's recovered somewhat from a poor start to the season and has a clear advantage there.
Click to expand...
I think we're in agreement here. My post was fully regarding Team USA, which I am very much into and follow closely. I'll again echo the same sentiments that Wall is not nearly as good a fit on that roster as the other guards who will make it.

As far as this NBA season is concerned, you'll get no argument from me on the value that John Wall has brought to the table this year, especially in comparison to Kyrie Irving. In fact, I don't think there's a more overrated player in the game right now than Kyrie (who was ranked #8 overall by the ESPN player ranking before the year).
Click to expand...
Yeah, I wasn't the one who said it was some kind of snub that he didn't make it. I was just responding to a post in response to that about him being not near as good a shooter by pointing out that he hasn't been nearly the disaster away from the basket he was in the past, and it went from there to the shooting numbers and the ASG and whatnot. Obviously the Irving/Wall debate doesn't matter for Team USA, neither of them is making the team barring several injuries.

 
TobiasFunke said:
scoobus said:
TobiasFunke said:
scoobus said:
Wall isn't as good a fit for international ball as the glut of other PGs team USA has, you're making it out to be too complicated and some kind of personal attack on Wall's game.

And lmao at Irving being a "slightly better outside shooter" than John Wall.
Click to expand...
There's a glut of PGs, sure, but I don't buy the "good fit for international ball" argument for the reasons I explained. Anyway, I was mostly just addressing the suggestion that the only reason people were saying Wall got the shaft on the ASG starting bid was because his team is better. His team is better in part because he makes it better in ways that Irving does not. He passes better, rebounds better and plays better defense. I don't much care about Team USA and I care even less if Wall gets cut from it now vs. later.

I agree, "slightly" better was understating it on my part. Irving's recovered somewhat from a poor start to the season and has a clear advantage there.
Click to expand...
I think we're in agreement here. My post was fully regarding Team USA, which I am very much into and follow closely. I'll again echo the same sentiments that Wall is not nearly as good a fit on that roster as the other guards who will make it.

As far as this NBA season is concerned, you'll get no argument from me on the value that John Wall has brought to the table this year, especially in comparison to Kyrie Irving. In fact, I don't think there's a more overrated player in the game right now than Kyrie (who was ranked #8 overall by the ESPN player ranking before the year).
Click to expand...
Yeah, I wasn't the one who said it was some kind of snub that he didn't make it. I was just responding to a post in response to that about him being not near as good a shooter by pointing out that he hasn't been nearly the disaster away from the basket he was in the past, and it went from there to the shooting numbers and the ASG and whatnot. Obviously the Irving/Wall debate doesn't matter for Team USA, neither of them is making the team barring several injuries.
Click to expand...
Actually I think it's pretty likely Irving makes it, at least the FIBA team this summer.

 
scoobus said:
TobiasFunke said:
scoobus said:
TobiasFunke said:
scoobus said:
Wall isn't as good a fit for international ball as the glut of other PGs team USA has, you're making it out to be too complicated and some kind of personal attack on Wall's game.

And lmao at Irving being a "slightly better outside shooter" than John Wall.
Click to expand...
There's a glut of PGs, sure, but I don't buy the "good fit for international ball" argument for the reasons I explained. Anyway, I was mostly just addressing the suggestion that the only reason people were saying Wall got the shaft on the ASG starting bid was because his team is better. His team is better in part because he makes it better in ways that Irving does not. He passes better, rebounds better and plays better defense. I don't much care about Team USA and I care even less if Wall gets cut from it now vs. later.

I agree, "slightly" better was understating it on my part. Irving's recovered somewhat from a poor start to the season and has a clear advantage there.
Click to expand...
I think we're in agreement here. My post was fully regarding Team USA, which I am very much into and follow closely. I'll again echo the same sentiments that Wall is not nearly as good a fit on that roster as the other guards who will make it.

As far as this NBA season is concerned, you'll get no argument from me on the value that John Wall has brought to the table this year, especially in comparison to Kyrie Irving. In fact, I don't think there's a more overrated player in the game right now than Kyrie (who was ranked #8 overall by the ESPN player ranking before the year).
Click to expand...
Yeah, I wasn't the one who said it was some kind of snub that he didn't make it. I was just responding to a post in response to that about him being not near as good a shooter by pointing out that he hasn't been nearly the disaster away from the basket he was in the past, and it went from there to the shooting numbers and the ASG and whatnot. Obviously the Irving/Wall debate doesn't matter for Team USA, neither of them is making the team barring several injuries.
Click to expand...
Actually I think it's pretty likely Irving makes it, at least the FIBA team this summer.
Click to expand...
I was just assuming returns to health for Paul, Westbrook and Rose, didn't even know there was a tourney this summer.

Maybe I should start following USA Basketball, would be nice to root for a winner for a change.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
What are the proposed Lowry trades from ESPN insider?
Click to expand...
Houston sends to Toronto: Jeremy Lin, Ronnie Brewer, a 2014 second-round pick (via N.Y.), and the less favorable of 2015 second-round pick (via N.Y.) and the 2015 second-round pick owed to Houston from Minnesota (which in turn is the less favorable of Minnesota and Denver second-round picks), plus cash considerations

Toronto sends to Houston: Kyle Lowry, Austin Daye

:lol: There you go Cliff, just who you always wanted, Jeremy Lin!

 
scoobus said:
Cliff Clavin said:
What are the proposed Lowry trades from ESPN insider?
Click to expand...
Houston sends to Toronto: Jeremy Lin, Ronnie Brewer, a 2014 second-round pick (via N.Y.), and the less favorable of 2015 second-round pick (via N.Y.) and the 2015 second-round pick owed to Houston from Minnesota (which in turn is the less favorable of Minnesota and Denver second-round picks), plus cash considerations

Toronto sends to Houston: Kyle Lowry, Austin Daye

:lol: There you go Cliff, just who you always wanted, Jeremy Lin!
Click to expand...
Holy hell that is bad.

Raptors give up their best player this season for a few months of Brewer (4th string wing), a couple crappy picks and joy of paying Lin $15M next season to be a backup behind Vasquez (if they retain him) and losing all of their cap space? ####, that would be a terrible deal if they were trading Fields instead of Lowry. Lowry walking in the summer is far, far better for the franchise. Not to mention the history Lowry has in Houston (I'm sure they touched on that in the article).

Now I remember why I cancelled my insider subscription.

Abe > Congrats on the new job!

ETA: Just found the full article. :lmao:

he'd also be reuniting with ex-Knicks teammates Steve Novak and Landry Fields.
Click to expand...
Yes. The 3 of them would be reunited at the end of the bench. Fantastic selling point for Toronto.

 
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Really looking forward to tonight's game. Should be fun. Even though both guys are saying the right things you know they are both chomping at the bit.

Rockets win their third of the year against SAS without Harden this time. ESPN graphic shows SAS 1-11 against the other top-77 teams in the league this year but .970 against everyone else.

 
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