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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (3 Viewers)

CurlyNight said:
Anyone honestly think Miami isn't going to win it all?????
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Miami's the obvious favorite, but I think LA could very well beat them :shrug:

They're going to have a lot of difficulties with Jordan should both teams make it to the finals. (Really no differently that what Hibbert posed to them last year). Really hard to see a weakness with LA at all, especially if/when Redick & Crawford are on. JMO They'll pose the stiffest test than anyone during Miami's current title runs.

I felt coming into the playoffs that Houston & LA were the biggest threats to Miami due to their dominant big men presences. They cant render Jordan/Howard useless like Splitter/Perkins. At least Houston is gone. Hopeful that either SA/Portland/OKC comes out of the West personally.

 
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Went to the OKC/Clippers game tonight. The Thunder were absolutely dreadful. Paul made some ridiculous shots, but there were a lot of the shots that he was wide open. Not only Paul, but really the entire Clippers team had their way all game long. This series will be over in a hurry if OKC can't play defense and can't find offense from more than Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka.

 
Grady Wilson said:
Went to the OKC/Clippers game tonight. The Thunder were absolutely dreadful. Paul made some ridiculous shots, but there were a lot of the shots that he was wide open. Not only Paul, but really the entire Clippers team had their way all game long. This series will be over in a hurry if OKC can't play defense and can't find offense from more than Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka.
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The Thunder put themselves in this situation. If you're going to shell out that much money for three players, you shouldn't count on scrubs to pick up the slack. For a franchise that drafted so well over a several year span, its the Perkins contract that is going to sink everything.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
hxperson said:
Cliff Clavin said:
You really seem to have low opinions of Lowry and Derozan and high opinions of anyone not on the Raptors.
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This is probably what it comes down to. I've watched Derozan for far too long now, and I just don't see him being anything other than a guy who is good at creating his own shot, but unable to create for or utilize his teammates and a mediocre defender at best. I'm not sure why you say Derozan is more efficient than Aldridge - LMA was top 20 in PER this season while Derozan was 56th, and had a 45% FG vs 42%, with less turnovers and equal FT%. And I think there are rather obvious reasons why one would feel that making the playoffs in the West is an accomplishment while making the playoffs in the East is not this year.

I've probably been a bit too hard on Lowry - I do think he is a borderline star. I think this is as good as he's going to get though, while the other guys like Wall, Irving, and Lillard have more upside due to their age and size.
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Not PER (though DD was 5th @ SG). PER loves rebounds so it isn't a very apt comparison between a PF and a SG. I was just talking about scoring; TS% in particular (.532 > .507). If you want to look at points per shot, it really isn't close. Derozan was 47th with 1.27. Aldridge was 108th with 1.13. Derozan did have a slightly higher turnover rate but that come with a much higher assist rate.

Again, I'll point out the Raptors record vs the West post trade was excellent. The East / West argument doesn't hold much weight for them. Their winning % vs the East was actually lower than vs the West post trade.

Lowry was much, much more than a borderline star this year. He was the 3rd best PG in the league. Yeah, you'd rather take the couple guys right behind him because of age (Lillard, Wall, Irving) but you're also only going to be paying about 60% the price for Lowry (but I guess we'll have to wait and see the deal he signs).
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I'm going to agree to disagree with you on this...I have objections to how you look at things but I certainly can see your point of view. I respect your thoughts and don't want to litter this threat with a topic no one else really cares about.

:thumbup:

 
Max Power said:
Grady Wilson said:
Went to the OKC/Clippers game tonight. The Thunder were absolutely dreadful. Paul made some ridiculous shots, but there were a lot of the shots that he was wide open. Not only Paul, but really the entire Clippers team had their way all game long. This series will be over in a hurry if OKC can't play defense and can't find offense from more than Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka.
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The Thunder put themselves in this situation. If you're going to shell out that much money for three players, you shouldn't count on scrubs to pick up the slack. For a franchise that drafted so well over a several year span, its the Perkins contract that is going to sink everything.
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Agreed. Perkins was wasted space tonight. He brought absolutely nothing. Butler was dreadful as well. I don't follow the Thunder that closely and only went to the game tonight since I'm in town on business. I knew their defense was pretty bad, but good grief it's just awful. Being a Mavs fan I have to say that OKC's defense is probably worse than Dallas. Durant and Westbrook got their points tonight, but they had bad games overall. The Clippers could have won that game by 30 points if they played their starters any in the 4th.

 
Grady Wilson said:
Max Power said:
Grady Wilson said:
Went to the OKC/Clippers game tonight. The Thunder were absolutely dreadful. Paul made some ridiculous shots, but there were a lot of the shots that he was wide open. Not only Paul, but really the entire Clippers team had their way all game long. This series will be over in a hurry if OKC can't play defense and can't find offense from more than Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka.
Click to expand...
The Thunder put themselves in this situation. If you're going to shell out that much money for three players, you shouldn't count on scrubs to pick up the slack. For a franchise that drafted so well over a several year span, its the Perkins contract that is going to sink everything.
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Agreed. Perkins was wasted space tonight. He brought absolutely nothing. Butler was dreadful as well. I don't follow the Thunder that closely and only went to the game tonight since I'm in town on business. I knew their defense was pretty bad, but good grief it's just awful. Being a Mavs fan I have to say that OKC's defense is probably worse than Dallas. Durant and Westbrook got their points tonight, but they had bad games overall. The Clippers could have won that game by 30 points if they played their starters any in the 4th.
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Feeling much much better about the Warriors given their performance sans Bogut (and Kerr.)

 
Lebron is lucky he doesn't have to go against:

GSW

OKC

Spurs/Blazers

Then meet a team as formidable as the Heat in the finals to win a title.

Any team coming out of the West is going to be tough for Miami. Just as Dallas and San Antonio were.

Bobcats

Brooklyn

Wash/Indy

Not exactly a tough road to hoe. Those the breaks.

 
Daywalker said:
Lebron is lucky he doesn't have to go against:

GSW

OKC

Spurs/Blazers

Then meet a team as formidable as the Heat in the finals to win a title.

Any team coming out of the West is going to be tough for Miami. Just as Dallas and San Antonio were.

Bobcats

Brooklyn

Wash/Indy

Not exactly a tough road to hoe. Those the breaks.
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In 20 years when we're talking the greatest ever in the NBA, LeBron will be referenced as *LeBron.

 
The hibbert thing is bizarre. His comments after the game basically indicated that he was aware that he's playing like a sissy.

 
is it possible brohans that hibbert wants out of indy in the worst way and is playing so bad so that they get rid of him i just do not get it like someone else said it is unbelievable that he is doing so bad hell you could probably run randy brewer out there at his current age and he would get a better line than that i was sort of a big randy brewer fan back in the day take that to the bank brohans

 
SWC said:
is it possible brohans that hibbert wants out of indy in the worst way and is playing so bad so that they get rid of him i just do not get it like someone else said it is unbelievable that he is doing so bad hell you could probably run randy brewer out there at his current age and he would get a better line than that i was sort of a big randy brewer fan back in the day take that to the bank brohans
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You might as well put Bynum in with his banged up knees, he is bound to at least get 1 rebound.

 
Daywalker said:
Lebron is lucky he doesn't have to go against:

GSW

OKC

Spurs/Blazers

Then meet a team as formidable as the Heat in the finals to win a title.

Any team coming out of the West is going to be tough for Miami. Just as Dallas and San Antonio were.

Bobcats

Brooklyn

Wash/Indy

Not exactly a tough road to hoe. Those the breaks.
Click to expand...
I notice you left out OKC when listing Miami's difficult West opponents in the Finals. And I'm not sure why you say they're "lucky" they didn't have to play a 6 seed, a 2 seed and a 1 seed on their way to Finals. No top seed ever has to make a run like that.

I'm not gonna argue that the East is comparable, but the Bobcats, Nets and Wizards all have winning percentages of .630 or better since the ASB. As the Pacers are showing, your play late in the season says more about how you'll play in the playoffs than your play early in the season. It's not the cakewalk that the standings would lead you to believe.

We could do these all day. The quality of the league and the conferences changes all the time. Nobody's taking away the Rockets' titles while Jordan was experimenting with baseball. Or the Lakers' titles in 2009 when the West was mediocre and the Magic knocked off their two biggest challengers in the East. Or those same Lakers' title in 2010 when they drew a mediocre Suns team in the conference finals and then the East's 4 seed, a bunch of old Celtics exhausted from knocking out LeBron for them.

 
Maybe he wants out badly enough to tank his performance....there really is no other explanation for the guy forgetting how to play basketball.

 
Maybe we're looking at it wrong, and Hibbert just forgot who he really was for a couple years.

We're talking about a slow 7'2" guy that fell to #17, surprising no one. A 7'2" guy that spent four years in college and still barely figured out how to pull down 6 boards/game against 19 year olds.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Daywalker said:
Lebron is lucky he doesn't have to go against:

GSW

OKC

Spurs/Blazers

Then meet a team as formidable as the Heat in the finals to win a title.

Any team coming out of the West is going to be tough for Miami. Just as Dallas and San Antonio were.

Bobcats

Brooklyn

Wash/Indy

Not exactly a tough road to hoe. Those the breaks.
Click to expand...
I notice you left out OKC when listing Miami's difficult West opponents in the Finals. And I'm not sure why you say they're "lucky" they didn't have to play a 6 seed, a 2 seed and a 1 seed on their way to Finals. No top seed ever has to make a run like that.

I'm not gonna argue that the East is comparable, but the Bobcats, Nets and Wizards all have winning percentages of .630 or better since the ASB. As the Pacers are showing, your play late in the season says more about how you'll play in the playoffs than your play early in the season. It's not the cakewalk that the standings would lead you to believe.

We could do these all day. The quality of the league and the conferences changes all the time. Nobody's taking away the Rockets' titles while Jordan was experimenting with baseball. Or the Lakers' titles in 2009 when the West was mediocre and the Magic knocked off their two biggest challengers in the East. Or those same Lakers' title in 2010 when they drew a mediocre Suns team in the conference finals and then the East's 4 seed, a bunch of old Celtics exhausted from knocking out LeBron for them.
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It's all a bunch of noise. You play who is in front of you. And when you win....and win and win what's the argument?

Give the credit where the credit is due. Great teams win titles. Whether it's the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, Pistons or now The Heat. Until they get knocked off everyone will look for excuses why they keep winning (not losing...how funny is that). I fear any great team....whether it's OKC, LAC or The Spurs. In fact most Heat fans fear The Spurs more than any other team in the West. They are filled with vet's who have won titles, a great coach and an amazing team basketball concept. That team will give the Heat everything they can handle again if they make it out of the West. I also think the LAC will be very tough. But OKC? Nope. I think the Heat matches up really well with them and plays far better defense when needed to win titles. They can out defend OKC no question about it.

Defense for The Heat is going to notch up each and every round......when they are determined to lock down.....they do. That is the true difference. No one talks about the Heat's defense during this finals run over the past 3 and hopefully now 4th season. They are a really good defensive team...their switching and rotations are great, they have active hands (when they are focused on defense) and understand the team concept of defense. Wade is a also an underrated defender IMO. There are times he get's taken off the dribble (happens to all great players) but for a 2 guard....he is damn good on the defensive end.

I still think it will be Heat/Spurs again. Both of those teams are the best defensive teams in the post season. Maybe I am wrong.....but that is how it very well may turn out yet again.

Portland is very intriguing BTW. And Washington is playing lights out basketball right now.

Amazing post season so far.

 
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pollardsvision said:
Maybe we're looking at it wrong, and Hibbert just forgot who he really was for a couple years.

We're talking about a slow 7'2" guy that fell to #17, surprising no one. A 7'2" guy that spent four years in college and still barely figured out how to pull down 6 boards/game against 19 year olds.
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Total underachiever the majority of his career. He is just not that good. How do explain this? It is incredible.

 
it was a good year for the durantula but this is a lot llike when they would not give the award to jordan he was always the best but every once in a while they would give it to someone else like barkely or malone and hey that is cool but they were not the best michael was and right now labron is that is sort of how it is now in my opinion take that to the bank brohans

 
Abraham said:
Maybe he wants out badly enough to tank his performance....there really is no other explanation for the guy forgetting how to play basketball.
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Rumors floating around the innerwebs that PG slept with Hibbert's fiance.

 
Hibbert is a giant wuss. If he played with any passion and strength he would easily score 20+ a night. No doubt he was the guy Bird was really talking about last postseason when Bird said they weren't tough enough.

It won't surprise me if Bird blows the team up and starts by trading Hibbert for a bag of peanuts.

 
Still think the Heat will do it again. The addition of a possible 3 peat is great enough to lift them against any other team, unless someone key gets hurt.

 
Unless Portland makes it out of the West, the Heat, if they make it, will have to win the finals by not having home court (all three top seeds in the West had a better record than them). Not saying they can't do it - hell, they did it against the Thunder two years ago - but it will make it that much tougher.

 
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Terrible move by Golden State. I understand Mark Jackson is one holy MoFo that can get under your skin, he did it to me from the booth for many years. I could have told GS that it would be a roller coaster of good and bad because of who Jackson is and none of these control freak/paranoid events he displayed surprise me in the least. They had to know what they were signing up for.

And despite all that he brought back a franchise that has not been heard from much since the Mullin days of the late 80s thru the mid 90s. The players really liked Jackson and in 2014, it's best to have a group of players in the NBA who can get behind a leader. Talent helps no doubt but coaches who can connect with players like Doc Rivers for example who can work both sides of the social fence, you want that in a coach.

I think this is going to bite GS in the butt and they should have stuck it out another year IMHO and deal with some of the control issues. Bill Belichick has some control issues, Jim Harbaugh has control issues, I realize that is football but 3 straight NFCC appearances by 1 and 3 SB rings plus 2 other trips there on the other guy. Pat Riley is a control freak type from the front office for the Miami Heat and he wins championships to the tune of 8 now as coach and executive.

Now Jackson is a far cry from those example perhaps but we don't know just how far he can take a team yet. I believe he will be unemployed a short time if he desires. A lot of teams would like him to come in and shape a young team. Sometimes when you are shaping an undisciplined franchise or team you have to step on a few toes. I just feel like GS threw in the towel way too soon and he was winning games. I'm sure some will feel different but this just feels wrong to take a coach who went to 7 games in a fierce Western Conference and just toss him away. Who is gonna step in and want to coach GS? How much better are they going to perform? As long as San Antonio has what they have, OKC has Durant/Westbrook, LAC with Paul and Griffin...how many rounds do you expect to truly win in the Western Conference?

Bad move by GS.

 
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Premier said:
God ABC is going to bring Jackson back for the Finals aren't they?
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One of the worst ever, was never so happy to see a guy get hired out of the booth. He lives on a different planet than most. Very righteous in his delivery and what he would say on TV. Some really bad telecasts started with him as part of the trio.

 
Mr Non Sequitur said:
Terrible move by Golden State. I understand Mark Jackson is one holy MoFo that can get under your skin, he did it to me from the booth for many years. I could have told GS that it would be a roller coaster of good and bad because of who Jackson is and none of these control freak/paranoid events he displayed surprise me in the least. They had to know what they were signing up for.

And despite all that he brought back a franchise that has not been heard from much since the Mullin days of the late 80s thru the mid 90s. The players really liked Jackson and in 2014, it's best to have a group of players in the NBA who can get behind a leader. Talent helps no doubt but coaches who can connect with players like Doc Rivers for example who can work both sides of the social fence, you want that in a coach.

I think this is going to bite GS in the butt and they should have stuck it out another year IMHO and deal with some of the control issues. Bill Belichick has some control issues, Jim Harbaugh has control issues, I realize that is football but 3 straight NFCC appearances by 1 and 3 SB rings plus 2 other trips there on the other guy. Pat Riley is a control freak type from the front office for the Miami Heat and he wins championships to the tune of 8 now as coach and executive.

Now Jackson is a far cry from those example perhaps but we don't know just how far he can take a team yet. I believe he will be unemployed a short time if he desires. A lot of teams would like him to come in and shape a young team. Sometimes when you are shaping an undisciplined franchise or team you have to step on a few toes. I just feel like GS threw in the towel way too soon and he was winning games. I'm sure some will feel different but this just feels wrong to take a coach who went to 7 games in a fierce Western Conference and just toss him away. Who is gonna step in and want to coach GS? How much better are they going to perform? As long as San Antonio has what they have, OKC has Durant/Westbrook, LAC with Paul and Griffin...how many rounds do you expect to truly win in the Western Conference?

Bad move by GS.
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While I get the feeling GSW fans could end up disappointed by the results from switching coaches, it doesn't sound like there was much of a choice. There are very few coaches that are worth it if they piss off everybody in the building. Jackson probably isn't one of those coaches.

 
The Warriors ownership group has been very proactive with their moves both on the court and with their arena project. The flipside of this is that they don't seem to have much patience. From their perspective, I think they'd rather sack Jackson one year too early than one year too late. He's a players coach with a irasible personality who doesn't have as much interest as ownership wanted to see regarding advanced tactics and analytics. At some point, the players are going to stop buying in to his sermons. Maybe that happened to an extent during the regular season.

 
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