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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (6 Viewers)

premier> you are right. However, as battier said when he signed with miami for the minimum :"it was to play with those guys IN MIAMI. I am not sure the wife would have been okay with me to take a pay cut and play in Cleveland"
Except this all revolves around one guy. And he just might want to play in Cleveland.
true. But that doesn't mean if Lebron bails that riley folds his tent. It would suck for sure, but Melo, Deng, and Gasol are still out there (none of them = lebron, I am just saying that riley would still field a competitive team)

 
premier> you are right. However, as battier said when he signed with miami for the minimum :"it was to play with those guys IN MIAMI. I am not sure the wife would have been okay with me to take a pay cut and play in Cleveland"
Except this all revolves around one guy. And he just might want to play in Cleveland.
true. But that doesn't mean if Lebron bails that riley folds his tent. It would suck for sure, but Melo, Deng, and Gasol are still out there (none of them = lebron, I am just saying that riley would still field a competitive team)
I hope so. Would hate to see them tank into the top 10 and not get their pick. Mediocre will be just fine.

 
Bosh really is perfect for Houston. Will they have the ability to field a team beyond their big 3 if bosh gets max though?

If bosh and lebron leave Miami, what does pat riley do? Offer melo max? Overpay pau and/or Stephenson? I assume wade stays and is depressed.

 
Gatorman said:
sporthenry said:
Gatorman said:
premier> you are right. However, as battier said when he signed with miami for the minimum :"it was to play with those guys IN MIAMI. I am not sure the wife would have been okay with me to take a pay cut and play in Cleveland"
Except this all revolves around one guy. And he just might want to play in Cleveland.
true. But that doesn't mean if Lebron bails that riley folds his tent. It would suck for sure, but Melo, Deng, and Gasol are still out there (none of them = lebron, I am just saying that riley would still field a competitive team)
Where does a hypothetical lineup of:

Cole

Wade

Deng

McRoberts

Gasol

Finish in the East? May be their best case if Lebron and Bosh leave...

 
Gatorman said:
sporthenry said:
Gatorman said:
premier> you are right. However, as battier said when he signed with miami for the minimum :"it was to play with those guys IN MIAMI. I am not sure the wife would have been okay with me to take a pay cut and play in Cleveland"
Except this all revolves around one guy. And he just might want to play in Cleveland.
true. But that doesn't mean if Lebron bails that riley folds his tent. It would suck for sure, but Melo, Deng, and Gasol are still out there (none of them = lebron, I am just saying that riley would still field a competitive team)
Where does a hypothetical lineup of:Cole

Wade

Deng

McRoberts

Gasol

Finish in the East? May be their best case if Lebron and Bosh leave...
Battling for 8th if they don't have a good bench. With a good bench, maybe 6-7.

 
Bosh really is perfect for Houston. Will they have the ability to field a team beyond their big 3 if bosh gets max though?

If bosh and lebron leave Miami, what does pat riley do? Offer melo max? Overpay pau and/or Stephenson? I assume wade stays and is depressed.
Houston can go over the cap to sign parsons. Donuts, jones, Beverly (starter), Daniels, and Johnson. A little thin up front but I think they can use the MLE on another big.

 
Cole

Stephenson

Deng

BRONBRON

McBob

Doable? Sounds kind of fun to me. Bron can guard most 4s, right? I know he's a 3, but he's gotta age, right?

 
Gatorman said:
sporthenry said:
Gatorman said:
premier> you are right. However, as battier said when he signed with miami for the minimum :"it was to play with those guys IN MIAMI. I am not sure the wife would have been okay with me to take a pay cut and play in Cleveland"
Except this all revolves around one guy. And he just might want to play in Cleveland.
true. But that doesn't mean if Lebron bails that riley folds his tent. It would suck for sure, but Melo, Deng, and Gasol are still out there (none of them = lebron, I am just saying that riley would still field a competitive team)
Where does a hypothetical lineup of:Cole

Wade

Deng

McRoberts

Gasol

Finish in the East? May be their best case if Lebron and Bosh leave...
Battling for 8th if they don't have a good bench. With a good bench, maybe 6-7.
Well, they do have Shabazz....

 
Gatorman said:
sporthenry said:
Gatorman said:
premier> you are right. However, as battier said when he signed with miami for the minimum :"it was to play with those guys IN MIAMI. I am not sure the wife would have been okay with me to take a pay cut and play in Cleveland"
Except this all revolves around one guy. And he just might want to play in Cleveland.
true. But that doesn't mean if Lebron bails that riley folds his tent. It would suck for sure, but Melo, Deng, and Gasol are still out there (none of them = lebron, I am just saying that riley would still field a competitive team)
Where does a hypothetical lineup of:Cole

Wade

Deng

McRoberts

Gasol

Finish in the East? May be their best case if Lebron and Bosh leave...
Battling for 8th if they don't have a good bench. With a good bench, maybe 6-7.
Well, they do have Shabazz....
He'd probably be the starter over Cole.

A Wade, Deng, Gasoline core is probably a top 4 team 3 years ago. A hobbled Wade who couldn't even play back to backs last year would be expected to carry the load and that wouldn't work well after a month or two. Deng is a nice complimentary piece but with a limited Wade he'd be "the guy" and he really isn't suited for that role. Would all depend on how long Wade could hold up. Deng, Gasol and scrubs aren't winning much even in the East.

 
Yea I don't see Leroy's point here. Who cares what Miami did in 2011 or 12.

If Lebron leaves he is taking the show with him. Can't really talk about how great the Heat are and how awful the Cavs have been. It's pointless. If Lebron leaves, that flips instantly.
Lots of unknown commodities in Cleveland. Seems risky if he wants 6 rings to start over with a young team while in his prime.
Better than the known commodities in Miami. At least Cleveland has options going forward. Miami has nothing and can do nothing with Wade and Bosh there.
This is why I made the Cordarelle/Roddy comparison. Known aging mediocrity? or the sexy unknown?Personally, I love some of those boring vets, but I'm in the minority. Shiny new toys are more fun to the majority, which is why they cost so much, even if the production hasn't translated yet.

What'd Kyrie be like with a coach he respects and better defenders around him? how will Wiggins do if he is only relied on short term to fill a role? will he then translate into Kwahi? how much better will Waiters be coming off the bench and not having to share the floor with Kyrie (much)? can an in-shape Bennett be an asset? how much better will Tristan be if he doesn't need to do anything on offense? can a combo of Zeller and Varejao underneath with all that talent around the outside be at worst league average? what others vets can be brought along and fit under the cap? This team's biggest problem was they were too young and didn't know how to play basketball. bring in some vets that know how to then the kids learn by example.

There's a lot of optimism that can be drawn from the above. The Heat? Well, unless they replace Bosh with Melo it's the same song and dance. What's a better chance to win? :shrug:
What are your thoughts on Tavon Austin vs. Sidney Rice as a bench/6th man option?

 
Raleigh's top story on the 10 o'clock news was the PJ Hairston story. Couple witnesses said Hairston started it and YMCA won't comment or release the tapes yet.

 
What is Melo waiting for? LeBron?
Chance if bosh goes to Houston he can go to Miami if lebron stays (or goes I guess too)
Heat would have to go under the cap for Melo which means they wouldn't have the MLE for McBob. Verbal agreements during this period are hardly ever (if ever) broken. I guess LeBron and Melo could still go to the Suns though.
I think it just adds to staying in the East. Bosh goes West and LeBron goes to an unproven Cleveland team opens up the East. Has to make Chicago more exciting or even New York a better destination than LA where you'd probably have 3-4 of the best teams in the West.

 
Daywalker said:
Bosh had nothing to lose by opting out. Wade? Would think he and Miami have an agreement in place regardless of what happens.
If only someone had thought of this angle.
The angle has been that the three of them opted out together to free up cap-space for Miami. I don't think that necessarily follows. Lebron and Bosh were opting out regardless and Wade may have done so just to keep the possibility of reuniting open while being assured by Miami he would be taken care of in any case.

Now up to Riley to add some pieces to entice Lebron and Bosh to come back. Better hope Napier, McRoberts and Granger types are enough.

Meaning Lebron, Bosh and Wade left their meeting with everything basically up in the air.

 
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850 ESPN Cleveland. Some radio host Aarron Goldschmidt?

"I think Lebron coming back would really help Johnny Manziel as he could mentor him, they have the same agent and it would be good for Johnny".

Seriously that town is now officially off their rocker. Regardless if he comes back to his hometown, that may be one of the most ridiculous things I think I have heard regarding all this.

Oh lord.

 
I would submit Avery Bradley, he of the 12.7 PER, as the owner of the worst contract of the offseason. I'd rather have Gortat and Frye, I think.

 
850 ESPN Cleveland. Some radio host Aarron Goldschmidt?

"I think Lebron coming back would really help Johnny Manziel as he could mentor him, they have the same agent and it would be good for Johnny".

Seriously that town is now officially off their rocker. Regardless if he comes back to his hometown, that may be one of the most ridiculous things I think I have heard regarding all this.

Oh lord.
Goldhammer. And yes, he is a knob. His daddy knows the station owner and got him the job.

 
Jason Kipnis is struggling this year. Maybe LeBron could also help him with his swing.

No reason to limit LeBron's role in CLE to babysitting first round QBs.

That show "Hot in Cleveland" has seen a dip in ratings. Maybe LeBron could sign on to EP that, and see if he could turn it around.

 
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I would submit Avery Bradley, he of the 12.7 PER, as the owner of the worst contract of the offseason. I'd rather have Gortat and Frye, I think.
12.7 PER, 23-27 year old Bradley >>> 13.2 PER, 31-35 year old Frye

Gortat's is a good deal for the next two years. Year 3 could be mediocre. Years 4/5 could be freaking terrible.

 
I would submit Avery Bradley, he of the 12.7 PER, as the owner of the worst contract of the offseason. I'd rather have Gortat and Frye, I think.
12.7 PER, 23-27 year old Bradley >>> 13.2 PER, 31-35 year old Frye

Gortat's is a good deal for the next two years. Year 3 could be mediocre. Years 4/5 could be freaking terrible.
Frye's also 6'11" and Bradley's 6'2".

I think both are pretty decent signings really. Everybody in the league wants tall people that can hit 3's or good perimeter defenders that can hit 3's.

Those kinds of guys don't come cheap anymore, even if they are limited players otherwise.

 
I would submit Avery Bradley, he of the 12.7 PER, as the owner of the worst contract of the offseason. I'd rather have Gortat and Frye, I think.
12.7 PER, 23-27 year old Bradley >>> 13.2 PER, 31-35 year old Frye

Gortat's is a good deal for the next two years. Year 3 could be mediocre. Years 4/5 could be freaking terrible.
Frye's also 6'11" and Bradley's 6'2".I think both are pretty decent signings really. Everybody in the league wants tall people that can hit 3's or good perimeter defenders that can hit 3's.

Those kinds of guys don't come cheap anymore, even if they are limited players otherwise.
As you suggest, the stretch 4 is a little harder to find than the scrappy defensive PG. I wouldn't be thrilled with either signing but the Bradley deal is flying under the radar here.

 
I would submit Avery Bradley, he of the 12.7 PER, as the owner of the worst contract of the offseason. I'd rather have Gortat and Frye, I think.
12.7 PER, 23-27 year old Bradley >>> 13.2 PER, 31-35 year old Frye

Gortat's is a good deal for the next two years. Year 3 could be mediocre. Years 4/5 could be freaking terrible.
Re: Gortat - that may be two more good years than the other two teams get out of their signings.

 
I would submit Avery Bradley, he of the 12.7 PER, as the owner of the worst contract of the offseason. I'd rather have Gortat and Frye, I think.
12.7 PER, 23-27 year old Bradley >>> 13.2 PER, 31-35 year old Frye

Gortat's is a good deal for the next two years. Year 3 could be mediocre. Years 4/5 could be freaking terrible.
Frye's also 6'11" and Bradley's 6'2".

I think both are pretty decent signings really. Everybody in the league wants tall people that can hit 3's or good perimeter defenders that can hit 3's.

Those kinds of guys don't come cheap anymore, even if they are limited players otherwise.
Novak for $3M

Korver for $6M

Miller for ... $2-3M?

Hawes for $6M

Anderson for $8.5M

Butler for likely under $5M

Webster for $5M

 
I would submit Avery Bradley, he of the 12.7 PER, as the owner of the worst contract of the offseason. I'd rather have Gortat and Frye, I think.
12.7 PER, 23-27 year old Bradley >>> 13.2 PER, 31-35 year old Frye

Gortat's is a good deal for the next two years. Year 3 could be mediocre. Years 4/5 could be freaking terrible.
Frye's also 6'11" and Bradley's 6'2".I think both are pretty decent signings really. Everybody in the league wants tall people that can hit 3's or good perimeter defenders that can hit 3's.

Those kinds of guys don't come cheap anymore, even if they are limited players otherwise.
As you suggest, the stretch 4 is a little harder to find than the scrappy defensive PG. I wouldn't be thrilled with either signing but the Bradley deal is flying under the radar here.
It certainly could be horrible. Most every contract this off-season has made me scratch my head, and I think I've just given up wondering what's "too much".

It seems like getting or keeping any useful player costs at least $8 mill. now.

 
I would submit Avery Bradley, he of the 12.7 PER, as the owner of the worst contract of the offseason. I'd rather have Gortat and Frye, I think.
12.7 PER, 23-27 year old Bradley >>> 13.2 PER, 31-35 year old Frye

Gortat's is a good deal for the next two years. Year 3 could be mediocre. Years 4/5 could be freaking terrible.
Frye's also 6'11" and Bradley's 6'2".

I think both are pretty decent signings really. Everybody in the league wants tall people that can hit 3's or good perimeter defenders that can hit 3's.

Those kinds of guys don't come cheap anymore, even if they are limited players otherwise.
Novak for $3M

Korver for $6M

Miller for ... $2-3M?

Hawes for $6M

Anderson for $8.5M

Butler for likely under $5M

Webster for $5M
Right. And, if those guys were free-agents this off-season, they'd likely go for a lot more.

It might just be that the cost of shooting is going way up.

 
I would submit Avery Bradley, he of the 12.7 PER, as the owner of the worst contract of the offseason. I'd rather have Gortat and Frye, I think.
12.7 PER, 23-27 year old Bradley >>> 13.2 PER, 31-35 year old Frye

Gortat's is a good deal for the next two years. Year 3 could be mediocre. Years 4/5 could be freaking terrible.
Frye's also 6'11" and Bradley's 6'2".I think both are pretty decent signings really. Everybody in the league wants tall people that can hit 3's or good perimeter defenders that can hit 3's.

Those kinds of guys don't come cheap anymore, even if they are limited players otherwise.
Novak for $3M

Korver for $6M

Miller for ... $2-3M?

Hawes for $6M

Anderson for $8.5M

Butler for likely under $5M

Webster for $5M
I didn't realize these guys were all free agents this off-season.

 
I would submit Avery Bradley, he of the 12.7 PER, as the owner of the worst contract of the offseason. I'd rather have Gortat and Frye, I think.
12.7 PER, 23-27 year old Bradley >>> 13.2 PER, 31-35 year old Frye

Gortat's is a good deal for the next two years. Year 3 could be mediocre. Years 4/5 could be freaking terrible.
Frye's also 6'11" and Bradley's 6'2".

I think both are pretty decent signings really. Everybody in the league wants tall people that can hit 3's or good perimeter defenders that can hit 3's.

Those kinds of guys don't come cheap anymore, even if they are limited players otherwise.
Novak for $3M

Korver for $6M

Miller for ... $2-3M?

Hawes for $6M

Anderson for $8.5M

Butler for likely under $5M

Webster for $5M
Right. And, if those guys were free-agents this off-season, they'd likely go for a lot more.

It might just be that the cost of shooting is going way up.
Patrick Patterson signed this off-season for $6M. 36% stretch 4 last season.

 
I would submit Avery Bradley, he of the 12.7 PER, as the owner of the worst contract of the offseason. I'd rather have Gortat and Frye, I think.
12.7 PER, 23-27 year old Bradley >>> 13.2 PER, 31-35 year old Frye

Gortat's is a good deal for the next two years. Year 3 could be mediocre. Years 4/5 could be freaking terrible.
Frye's also 6'11" and Bradley's 6'2".I think both are pretty decent signings really. Everybody in the league wants tall people that can hit 3's or good perimeter defenders that can hit 3's.

Those kinds of guys don't come cheap anymore, even if they are limited players otherwise.
Novak for $3M

Korver for $6M

Miller for ... $2-3M?

Hawes for $6M

Anderson for $8.5M

Butler for likely under $5M

Webster for $5M
Right. And, if those guys were free-agents this off-season, they'd likely go for a lot more.It might just be that the cost of shooting is going way up.
Patrick Patterson signed this off-season for $6M. 36% stretch 4 last season.
And he shot 3 less 3 pointers a game too.

 
I didn't realize these guys were all free agents this off-season.
Patterson is probably the closest comparable and he got a year and $2M less per. Hawes was this year and $5M cheaper. Miller and Butler haven't signed yet but they'll be much cheaper and bring the same thing Frye does. PJ Tucker is a similar shooter so we'll see what he gets. Richard Jefferson, Wesley Johnson, Rashard Lewis and Marvin Williams will all give you similar shooting and will all be much cheaper.

 
I would submit Avery Bradley, he of the 12.7 PER, as the owner of the worst contract of the offseason. I'd rather have Gortat and Frye, I think.
12.7 PER, 23-27 year old Bradley >>> 13.2 PER, 31-35 year old Frye

Gortat's is a good deal for the next two years. Year 3 could be mediocre. Years 4/5 could be freaking terrible.
Frye's also 6'11" and Bradley's 6'2".

I think both are pretty decent signings really. Everybody in the league wants tall people that can hit 3's or good perimeter defenders that can hit 3's.

Those kinds of guys don't come cheap anymore, even if they are limited players otherwise.
Novak for $3M

Korver for $6M

Miller for ... $2-3M?

Hawes for $6M

Anderson for $8.5M

Butler for likely under $5M

Webster for $5M
Right. And, if those guys were free-agents this off-season, they'd likely go for a lot more.

It might just be that the cost of shooting is going way up.
Patrick Patterson signed this off-season for $6M. 36% stretch 4 last season.
Nice deal. But he's also a slightly undersized PF that was cast aside by 2 different franchises before his 24th birthday.

There might've been a time where giving over $6 mill. to a guy like Patterson would've been considered an overpay.

 
Nice deal. But he's also a slightly undersized PF that was cast aside by 2 different franchises before his 24th birthday.

There might've been a time where giving over $6 mill. to a guy like Patterson would've been considered an overpay.
Higher career WS/48 and PER than Frye. Might be a bit shorter but he's a helluva lot stronger, quicker and also a better rebounder.

 
I didn't realize these guys were all free agents this off-season.
Patterson is probably the closest comparable and he got a year and $2M less per. Hawes was this year and $5M cheaper. Miller and Butler haven't signed yet but they'll be much cheaper and bring the same thing Frye does. PJ Tucker is a similar shooter so we'll see what he gets. Richard Jefferson, Wesley Johnson, Rashard Lewis and Marvin Williams will all give you similar shooting and will all be much cheaper.
McRoberts fills the same role, and was had for 5.5 a year.

 
I would submit Avery Bradley, he of the 12.7 PER, as the owner of the worst contract of the offseason. I'd rather have Gortat and Frye, I think.
12.7 PER, 23-27 year old Bradley >>> 13.2 PER, 31-35 year old Frye

Gortat's is a good deal for the next two years. Year 3 could be mediocre. Years 4/5 could be freaking terrible.
Frye's also 6'11" and Bradley's 6'2".

I think both are pretty decent signings really. Everybody in the league wants tall people that can hit 3's or good perimeter defenders that can hit 3's.

Those kinds of guys don't come cheap anymore, even if they are limited players otherwise.
Novak for $3M

Korver for $6M

Miller for ... $2-3M?

Hawes for $6M

Anderson for $8.5M

Butler for likely under $5M

Webster for $5M
Right. And, if those guys were free-agents this off-season, they'd likely go for a lot more.

It might just be that the cost of shooting is going way up.
Patrick Patterson signed this off-season for $6M. 36% stretch 4 last season.
Nice deal. But he's also a slightly undersized PF that was cast aside by 2 different franchises before his 24th birthday.

There might've been a time where giving over $6 mill. to a guy like Patterson would've been considered an overpay.
Hawes for $6M alone has to make Frye for $8M look terrible, no? In Hawes, you get a guy who is 5 years younger, taller, and stronger. He is also a much better rebounder, a better off the ball defender although probably an equally mediocre on the ball defender, and while a weaker mid-range shooter, a stronger 3 pt shooter (41% vs 37% last yr).

 
I was looking at the PER of all these PFs and Centers... Perkins had a PER of 6.32 last year, 3.5 points below any other player ESPN listed as a center. I'm pretty sure its time that OKC replaces Scott Brooks.

 
I didn't realize these guys were all free agents this off-season.
Patterson is probably the closest comparable and he got a year and $2M less per. Hawes was this year and $5M cheaper. Miller and Butler haven't signed yet but they'll be much cheaper and bring the same thing Frye does. PJ Tucker is a similar shooter so we'll see what he gets. Richard Jefferson, Wesley Johnson, Rashard Lewis and Marvin Williams will all give you similar shooting and will all be much cheaper.
But Frye wasn't taking a pay cut and had multiple offers. Maybe other teams were offering 7.5 instead of 8 but that's not a big deal. Even haggling over an extra mil or two a year doesn't matter. Would it make you feel better if everybody tells you Patterson was a super awesome signing?

 
Nice deal. But he's also a slightly undersized PF that was cast aside by 2 different franchises before his 24th birthday.

There might've been a time where giving over $6 mill. to a guy like Patterson would've been considered an overpay.
Higher career WS/48 and PER than Frye. Might be a bit shorter but he's a helluva lot stronger, quicker and also a better rebounder.
It was a nice signing. I'm not saying Frye was a better one. I was only saying that it seems like it's getting more difficult to find cheap shooting.

Patterson and McRoberts are some of the best bargains of this off-season. Even then, we're talking about guys the average fan's never even thought about getting $6 mill/year.

 
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I didn't realize these guys were all free agents this off-season.
Patterson is probably the closest comparable and he got a year and $2M less per. Hawes was this year and $5M cheaper. Miller and Butler haven't signed yet but they'll be much cheaper and bring the same thing Frye does. PJ Tucker is a similar shooter so we'll see what he gets. Richard Jefferson, Wesley Johnson, Rashard Lewis and Marvin Williams will all give you similar shooting and will all be much cheaper.
But Frye wasn't taking a pay cut and had multiple offers. Maybe other teams were offering 7.5 instead of 8 but that's not a big deal. Even haggling over an extra mil or two a year doesn't matter.Would it make you feel better if everybody tells you Patterson was a super awesome signing?
No need to get so defensive. Just listing some comparables.

 

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