*** New England Patriot Offseason (2007) *** (1 Viewer)

[Pat Patriot]

Hopefully it makes it difficult for NE to sign FAs they covet by having a reputation as being cheap.

As I mentioned aboved, I am hoping Curtis' FA forces the Rams to have to choose one of either he or Bruce. Someone tell Pioli I'm already pencilling in Bruce for 07. TIA

Bruce would be a nice addition but Jackson needs to become the deep threat. Brady threw a GREAT deep ball in 2005. He also threw a great deep ball to Caldwell that set up the game winning FG against SD. I dont recall the Pats throwing anything that even resembled a deep pass all game Sunday. I'm not sure why that was.

 

[David Yudkin]

Hopefully it makes it difficult for NE to sign FAs they covet by having a reputation as being cheap.

As I mentioned aboved, I am hoping Curtis' FA forces the Rams to have to choose one of either he or Bruce. Someone tell Pioli I'm already pencilling in Bruce for 07. TIA

Bruce would be a nice addition but Jackson needs to become the deep threat. Brady threw a GREAT deep ball in 2005. He also threw a great deep ball to Caldwell that set up the game winning FG against SD. I dont recall the Pats throwing anything that even resembled a deep pass all game Sunday. I'm not sure why that was.

IIRC, Curtis is an unrestricted free agent and wants to be a starter. The Rams resigned Bruce last year to a 3-year, $15 million deal. He is due $4 million this year. I don't see Bruce geting released, and I don't see Curtis wanting to stick around to be their 3rd receiver.

 

[Bri]

Hopefully it makes it difficult for NE to sign FAs they covet by having a reputation as being cheap.

As I mentioned aboved, I am hoping Curtis' FA forces the Rams to have to choose one of either he or Bruce. Someone tell Pioli I'm already pencilling in Bruce for 07. TIA

Bruce would be a nice addition but Jackson needs to become the deep threat. Brady threw a GREAT deep ball in 2005. He also threw a great deep ball to Caldwell that set up the game winning FG against SD. I dont recall the Pats throwing anything that even resembled a deep pass all game Sunday. I'm not sure why that was.

IIRC, Curtis is an unrestricted free agent and wants to be a starter. The Rams resigned Bruce last year to a 3-year, $15 million deal. He is due $4 million this year. I don't see Bruce geting released, and I don't see Curtis wanting to stick around to be their 3rd receiver.

That's right, he gets 6,4,5 each year. The contract must have incentives or "out clauses" that raised eyebrows because it took longer than normal to get approved. Curtis has said the right thing at the right time. When he hired Tom Condon, he wanted to be a starter in the NFL. Now with FA looming, when asked about the Rams he says he'll accept whatever role he is given. Condon(and others) believe he's the #2 ranked WR available in FA. Which is the truth? Accept any role or wants to start? I figure it's start and he didn't just sign on with a big name agent for the heck of it. I imagine pushing Bruce is an uncomfortable position to be in and that's the reason his quotes stating his intentions seem to waiver. Bruce is one of the better leaders in the lockerroom and admired by many on his team. He has an insane amount of brothers and sisters, 15? 13? and that's probably why he handles the role so well and with ease.I can't find it but I'd swear MLive.com had him saying he wanted to start and Furrey saying he was fine with going to the 3rd WR role. Take Bruce out of the equation and he's saying how he'd like to sign somewhere he could start.

 

[nerangers]

The 2007 Franchise tag figures were finalized (still trying to find the complete list somewhere), so it would cost $7.79 Millon to retain the services of Asante "Get Paid" Samuel. I am starting to rethink that the Patriots do this, but will try to get a deal done before it comes to that. If they don't get it done, I am sure someone will pay him at this going rate...somebody is always willing to overpay (not saying that this would be considered that) for a player they want. The Pats have until the beginning of March to get a deal done. If they chose Graham to franchise, it would run $4.31 million.

Reiss' Pieces - Franchise Tag (full article)

A few other links to check out:

Patriots 2006 season report card (interactive poll)

The Pats Biggest Needs (from Message board)

Linebacker is a spot Patriots must address

EDIT: Found the Franchise numbers...

FRANCHISE

Quarterbacks -- $12,615,000

Offensive linemen -- $9,556,000

Defensive ends -- $8,644,000

Wide receivers -- $7,613,000

Cornerbacks -- $7,790,000

Linebackers -- $7,206,000

Running backs -- $6,999,000

Defensive tackles -- $6,775,000

Safeties -- $4,490,000

Tight ends -- $4,371,000

Punters and kickers -- $2,078,000

TRANSITION

Quarterbacks -- $10,182,000

Offensive linemen -- $8,267,000

Defensive ends -- $7,701,000

Wide receivers -- $7,040,000

Cornerbacks -- $6,766,000

Linebackers -- $6,493,000

Running backs -- $5,981,000

Defensive tackles -- $5,554,000

Safeties -- $3,984,000

Tight ends -- $3,612,000

Punters and kickers -- $1,926,000

 

[nerangers]

Hey guys, I know the draft is always the Pats time to shine. You never know houw well the draft was though until the season is over (or a few seasons for some players). In the past, the Patriots have hit home runs with value in the first round:

defensive end Richard Seymour (No. 6, 2001)

tight end Daniel Graham (No. 21, 2002)

defensive end Ty Warren (No. 13, 2003)

nose tackle Vince Wilfork (No. 21, 2004)

tight end Benjamin Watson (No. 32, 2004)

offensive guard Logan Mankins (No. 32, 2005)

running back Laurence Maroney (No. 21, 2006)

Looking forward to see who the Pats get with the 24th and 28th picks.

How well are they doing in the later rounds though. I know everyone thought the Patriots should go LB with a good drafting class, yet they didn't. I actually read that since 2000, they have only drafted five LBs, and only Banta-Cain is still with the team. I am thinking based on last years draft, we could have gone LB instead of so heavy on TE. I thought they drafted Thomas to prepare for replacing Graham, and I was hoping they would draft Gostkowski, and he definitely stepped up his game. Jackson seemed like a letdown, but did show some flashes of what could be. Overall, I don't think this draft was a strong as many felt back then. We all felt the offense got a jolt, but here it is a year later, and we are still needing to address the linebacker position.

4/30/06 - PATRIOTS DRAFT BOARD

1 21 Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota

2 4 Chad Jackson, WR, Florida

3 22 David Thomas, TE, Texas

4 9 Garrett Mills, TE/FB, Tulsa

4 21 Stephen Gostkowksi, K, Memphis :(

5 3 Ryan O'Callaghan, OT, California

6 22 Jeremy Mincey, DE, Florida

6 36 Dan Stevenson, OG, Notre Dame

6 37 Le Kevin Smith, DT, Nebraska

7 21 Willie Andrews, S, Baylor

Thoughts???

 

[Pat Patriot]

Hey guys, I know the draft is always the Pats time to shine. You never know houw well the draft was though until the season is over (or a few seasons for some players). In the past, the Patriots have hit home runs with value in the first round:defensive end Richard Seymour (No. 6, 2001)tight end Daniel Graham (No. 21, 2002)defensive end Ty Warren (No. 13, 2003)nose tackle Vince Wilfork (No. 21, 2004)tight end Benjamin Watson (No. 32, 2004)offensive guard Logan Mankins (No. 32, 2005)running back Laurence Maroney (No. 21, 2006) Looking forward to see who the Pats get with the 24th and 28th picks.How well are they doing in the later rounds though. I know everyone thought the Patriots should go LB with a good drafting class, yet they didn't. I actually read that since 2000, they have only drafted five LBs, and only Banta-Cain is still with the team. I am thinking based on last years draft, we could have gone LB instead of so heavy on TE. I thought they drafted Thomas to prepare for replacing Graham, and I was hoping they would draft Gostkowski, and he definitely stepped up his game. Jackson seemed like a letdown, but did show some flashes of what could be. Overall, I don't think this draft was a strong as many felt back then. We all felt the offense got a jolt, but here it is a year later, and we are still needing to address the linebacker position. 4/30/06 - PATRIOTS DRAFT BOARD 1 21 Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota 2 4 Chad Jackson, WR, Florida 3 22 David Thomas, TE, Texas 4 9 Garrett Mills, TE/FB, Tulsa 4 21 Stephen Gostkowksi, K, Memphis 5 3 Ryan O'Callaghan, OT, California 6 22 Jeremy Mincey, DE, Florida 6 36 Dan Stevenson, OG, Notre Dame 6 37 Le Kevin Smith, DT, Nebraska 7 21 Willie Andrews, S, Baylor Thoughts???

Right now I give the Pats draft a B- or C+ with the potential for that grade to jump greatly after next year. IMO, the Pats got 2 starters (Maroney and Gostkowski), 1 potential starter (Chad Jackson) and 2 good backups (David Thomas and Ryan O'Callaghan). A decent haul but Chad Jackson will make or break this draft.

 

[Bri]

Right now I give the Pats draft a B- or C+ with the potential for that grade to jump greatly after next year. IMO, the Pats got 2 starters (Maroney and Gostkowski), 1 potential starter (Chad Jackson) and 2 good backups (David Thomas and Ryan O'Callaghan). A decent haul but Chad Jackson will make or break this draft.

I agree. As usual I was whining about the Thomas pick but he sure had his moments and I came around to being happy with it. Mincey pick was ..... DEs go early, let's not try and pull a rabbit out of a hat and just assume all 6th and 7th round DEs should be undrafted free agents.

 

[Bri]

I forgot the Pats had signed Tebucky Jones and Mel Mitchell in the offseason last year. I guess Pioli did try and get Safety depth but both are on IR

 

[Pat Patriot]

Right now I give the Pats draft a B- or C+ with the potential for that grade to jump greatly after next year. IMO, the Pats got 2 starters (Maroney and Gostkowski), 1 potential starter (Chad Jackson) and 2 good backups (David Thomas and Ryan O'Callaghan). A decent haul but Chad Jackson will make or break this draft.

I agree. As usual I was whining about the Thomas pick but he sure had his moments and I came around to being happy with it. Mincey pick was ..... DEs go early, let's not try and pull a rabbit out of a hat and just assume all 6th and 7th round DEs should be undrafted free agents.

I liked the Thomas pick but didnt understand the Mills pick all that much. I thought they could still get a decent LB in the 4th round. I saw Mills a bit and liked him at Tulsa but just thought it was overkill at that point (even though Mills is a little different than Thomas and more FB than TE).

 

[David Yudkin]

My concern for the Pats is that there are in danger of losing four starters on defense . . .

Seau if he can't go or retires

Harrison if he can't go or retires

Bruschi if he retires

Samuel if he is allowed to sign elsewhere

I'm not saying that those are going to happen, but the possibilty exists that there are questions involving all of them.

 

[Pat Patriot]

My concern for the Pats is that there are in danger of losing four starters on defense . . .Seau if he can't go or retiresHarrison if he can't go or retiresBruschi if he retiresSamuel if he is allowed to sign elsewhereI'm not saying that those are going to happen, but the possibilty exists that there are questions involving all of them.

Seau - Need to plan as if he wont be back. They have no depth at ILB right now and one of their top 3 picks would most certainly have to be a LB. Vrabel is not as good in coverage anymore so I dont see the Pats flopping him back and forth from inside to outside. He sets the edge on running plays and rushes the passer from here on out.Harrison - He has missed so much time the last couple of years it is as if he hasnt been around anyways. He was a GREAT player for the Pats for a couple of years but I dont think he can be relied on anymore. Wilson should be back but his play has been going downhill the last couple of years. We need him to step up. Sanders looks like he could be a player. I like Hawkins. I think Chad Scott played well when I saw him. Lots of guys coming back but none at Harrisons caliber. There are some good safeties projected in the draft, we need one of them.Bruschi - See Seau. There is no depth at ILB. I expect Bruschi back. However, he is not a 3 down backer anymore. He used to be a big play guy. Doesnt look the same (shocking ) since he came back from the stroke.Samuel - I would expect the Pats to franchise him. Maybe not though . Samuel and Hobbs both played very well in the INDY game. Even with Samuel, we need another corner.Obviously we cant fill all holes with TOP draft picks but we have 2 1's and a 2 that should probably be used on D. I would like to see a FA LB but am pretty sure the Pats are not going after Briggs or A. Thomas.

 

[Boston]

Heard an interesting stat on WEEI today. Here is the Pats record with and without Rodney Harrison the past four years:

When he plays/regular season-

38-6

When he plays/playoffs-

6-0

When he doesn't play/regular season-

13-8

When he doesn't play/playoffs-

3-2

This guy is still an incredibly important cog in what the Pats do. His toughness and leadership give the D an edge/toughness/smartness that just doesn't exist when he's out. He's a player you can't understand how good he is unless you watch him play every play of every game. He's just an animal consumed by winning. They definetly need him back next season, they're not ready to transistion away from him yet. On the flipside, they need to find his eventual replacement this offseason as you can only rely so much on a player his age and recent injury history. Finding that replacement will not be easy by any means but it's a reality that needs to be addressed.

 

[code]

How well are they doing in the later rounds though. I know everyone thought the Patriots should go LB with a good drafting class, yet they didn't. I actually read that since 2000, they have only drafted five LBs, and only Banta-Cain is still with the team.

I've read in the past that the Patriots do not believe most college schemes make it possible to evaluate LBs for their style of 3-4 defense, that's why you don't see them drafting many DE/LB...instead they'd rather look to free agency...who are the top free agents who could play ILB that the Patriots have a chance of acquiring?

 

[David Yudkin]

There was a story on Samuel on the local news last night and they used the "sources inside the team" say that they will franchsie him no matter what. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[Mr. Pink]

How well are they doing in the later rounds though. I know everyone thought the Patriots should go LB with a good drafting class, yet they didn't. I actually read that since 2000, they have only drafted five LBs, and only Banta-Cain is still with the team.

I've read in the past that the Patriots do not believe most college schemes make it possible to evaluate LBs for their style of 3-4 defense, that's why you don't see them drafting many DE/LB...instead they'd rather look to free agency...who are the top free agents who could play ILB that the Patriots have a chance of acquiring?

Bingo! This is the reason folks should not be surprised if the Pats don't use a 1st round pick on a LB. If Patrick Willis from Ole Miss is sitting there, maybe they bite. However, I think they look to FAs first....possibly Donnie Edwards in San Diego. There are sure to be others available that can fit into the Pats scheme and adapt quicker than a rookie.

 

[Boston]

How well are they doing in the later rounds though. I know everyone thought the Patriots should go LB with a good drafting class, yet they didn't. I actually read that since 2000, they have only drafted five LBs, and only Banta-Cain is still with the team.

I've read in the past that the Patriots do not believe most college schemes make it possible to evaluate LBs for their style of 3-4 defense, that's why you don't see them drafting many DE/LB...instead they'd rather look to free agency...who are the top free agents who could play ILB that the Patriots have a chance of acquiring?

The problem is college defenses really don't translate to what the Pats do as well as the size they like their LBs. The Pats run a 3-4 where the LBs are expected to be very multi-dimensional in both the run and passing game. Much of what their LBs does is new to any college football player so there's a big learning curve. As for the size issue...including Willie last year every starter for the Pats in the last two years (Willie, Vrabel, Colvin, Bruschi and Banta-Cain) with the exception of Junior was a D-lineman in college. One thing I would like to see is Vrabel moving to the inside full time (as well as adding a badass, athletic pass rusher to the outside). The guy's a big time player but he's nearing an age where he could lose a half a step. If he's inside that won't be the issue it could be on the outside. Also, he's very intelligent and would be able to take over the traffic cop role that Tedy currently has. As for Tedy I'd like to see him go more to a role similar to what Ted Johnson had his last few years. More of a situational run stopper.What the Pats do with this position this offseason is very important to their immediate and long term future. While the strength of this D is the D-line a BB defense is centered around LB play. With Ted getting older and Banta Cain looking more like a role player than a legit starter this is an area that has to be addressed this offseason. How they do it will be very interesting to watch and will go a long way towards how the 07 team fairs.

 

[Boston]

How well are they doing in the later rounds though. I know everyone thought the Patriots should go LB with a good drafting class, yet they didn't. I actually read that since 2000, they have only drafted five LBs, and only Banta-Cain is still with the team.

I've read in the past that the Patriots do not believe most college schemes make it possible to evaluate LBs for their style of 3-4 defense, that's why you don't see them drafting many DE/LB...instead they'd rather look to free agency...who are the top free agents who could play ILB that the Patriots have a chance of acquiring?

The problem is college defenses really don't translate to what the Pats do as well as the size they like their LBs. The Pats run a 3-4 where the LBs are expected to be very multi-dimensional in both the run and passing game. Much of what their LBs does is new to any college football player so there's a big learning curve. As for the size issue...including Willie last year every starter for the Pats in the last two years (Willie, Vrabel, Colvin, Bruschi and Banta-Cain) with the exception of Junior was a D-lineman in college. That means that while a guy like Cato June is a quality free agent he probably doesn't make sense for the Pats. One thing I would like to see is Vrabel moving to the inside full time (as well as adding a badass, athletic pass rusher to the outside). The guy's a big time player but he's nearing an age where he could lose a half a step. If he's inside that won't be the issue it could be on the outside. Also, he's very intelligent and would be able to take over the traffic cop role that Tedy currently has. As for Tedy I'd like to see him go more to a role similar to what Ted Johnson had his last few years. More of a situational run stopper.What the Pats do with this position this offseason is very important to their immediate and long term future. While the strength of this D is the D-line a BB defense is centered around LB play. With Ted getting older and Banta Cain looking more like a role player than a legit starter this is an area that has to be addressed this offseason. How they do it will be very interesting to watch and will go a long way towards how the 07 team fairs.

 

[Boston]

There was a story on Samuel on the local news last night and they used the "sources inside the team" say that they will franchsie him no matter what. Take that for what it's worth.

I've been hearing this as well...although the Pats are so tight-lipped you have to take stuff like this with a grain of salt.I'd be pretty surprised if Samuel isn't in a Pats uni next year. Hopefully they can resign him but his contract demands as well as a market flush with cash could be an issue. If that doesn't happen than I find it hard to believe he doesn't get franchised. The Pats already need help in the secondary with Samuel in the mix. Without him upgrading that unit becomes even more difficult.If the Pats can add another high quality CB to Samuel and Hobbs that position can become a real strength. With two #1's and a ton of cap space accomplishing that is well within their reach. Yet, if you take Asante out of the mix the Pats secondary will really be a huge question mark next season. Also, if the Pats dig up another high quality CB they can potentially let Samuel walk next year but that's not a luxury they can afford this year.One other thing to watch here is Eugene Wilson. I would not be surprised to see him move to CB. He was drafted as one and I know they were using him there a decent amount last preseason. He seems to have hit the wall at safety so maybe the position change will reinvigorate him.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I think I echo a lot of the thoughts of the other Patriot fans here.

First - I don't see Samuel walking this season. I don't see why they wouldn't tag him if they can't get a deal done. I think that the franchise tag is more likely. Samuel would get silly $ in FA right now, and he's not the type of player the Patriots break the philosophy for.

I'll be very disappointed if we go into next season depending on Rodney Harrison again. GB the guy, he was a great pickup and put in a few great years with us, but he's simply running out of gas and getting hurt too much. His style of play, no doubt, subjects him to a lot of hits that bring with them a high frequency of injury. If he can come back, fine, but when you take Harrison out of that spot, it's almost like you lose BOTH safety positions. We need to bring in someone new, younger, and ideally someone that can lay a hit on like Harrison.

Bruschi is no longer an every down LB - and I think he comes back for another year. Just my opinion. We need depth at ILB, a starter at ILB, and depth at OLB BADLY. The DL is the only defensive position that is talented AND deep - it's time we reassess the foundation of the secondary and LB group.

The bottom line is I feel like this defense has lost its teeth. I don't think it's very feared anymore. I think it's a smart defense, it's probably a tough defense, but I don't think it's a feared defense. We need some new cogs in the machine on this side of the ball badly.

 

[Bri]

Which of the Pats free agents will the Jets steal?

 

[David Yudkin]

Who would the Jets (or anyone else steal)? Samuel will probably have to stick around. And I think the team will try pretty hard to keep Graham given the sets they like to run. As for the other guys . . .

Tully Banta-Cain - He was ok but not great.

Troy Brown - I personally love Troy and can't seem him playing elsewhere, so he'll either retire or play another year for cheap money.

Don Davis - Not a huige loss if he leaves.

Heath Evans - Did very well, but probably not a huge cog in the offense.

Barry Gardner - No great loss

Larry Izzo - He'd be missed and is great at what he does. Speial teams would take a hit if he left.

Ray Mickens - Role player.

Patrick Pass - Didn't do a ton but was hurt.

Todd Sauerbrun - Are punters that hard to find?

Junior Seau - He's on his last legs.

Vinny Testaverde - Not really a contributor.

Ken Walter - He's a punter.

If I were the Pats, losing these guys would not be a major blow. Obviously Brown and Izzo have been with the team for years and have been key to their success. But overall, other than Graham and Samuel, IMO the casualties would not be all that severe.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I think Brown, Izzo, and Evans are back. I just don't think they're guys that really pose a "value" problem - I think they recognize the value of Izzo.

I think Graham is gone. They might try hard, but the beat guys around here seem to think he wants to go to a place where we can get paid and played more like a receiving TE.

 

[Bri]

I think Mangini did in fact say they wanted to upgrade the TE position and Thomas' play makes me wonder of their intentions with Graham.

Opposite-

I loved the Mickens signing. I think he's perfect for the Pats because he can sit and rest his old bones(he's cheap too) then when those inevitable CB injuries come, he can be plugged right in.

Unless something's up with Dillon I don't see them re-signing Pass.

Banta Cain at least has some experience and isn't 90. Is he looking for a ton of money? Jets have Chatham playing a bunch so I gotta figure they'd like a LB.

Jets and/or Mangini goofed with his FBs. Got rid of Sowell who was very good because they were all over Askew and then he seemed to fall out of favor. I hope Evans stays, he's useful.

 

[Chaos Commish]

[2 good backups (David Thomas and Ryan O'Callaghan). A decent haul but Chad Jackson will make or break this draft.

I read more than once and from different sources that O'Callaghan was more than satisfactory at RT this year. He should be a long-term starter. I think he was one of the steals of last year's draft. Correct me if I'm wrong, homers. I trust your input.

 

[Bri]

K.Mitchell on the Chiefs may be a player that fits into the system or June from Indy... but both may be pricey

I don't want him at all. I've been screaming for them to play his backup for a couple years now. (Hope Herm gives him a chance now BTW) Mitchell reacts too slow and/or takes too long to shed a block. He plays his position well in theory but by the time he hits the RB he's always got 3 yards already. That would frustrate me to no end if he was on the Pats. Indy was run on all regular season, not sure I'd want any of their LBers either. Maybe Bruschi's spoiled me and I'm being picky

 

[Spike]

LB needs youth and more talent. It is the core of BB defense and too long in the tooth. I agree with JWW that Bruschi has lost a step and an half. too depressed to type more...

Driving in today, EEI is reporting that Bruschi has said he will consider retirement this off-season.I think it's probably a good idea - he's not the same player he once was and let's be honest - what else does the guy have left to prove? He's got the rings, he's got the money, and he came back to play 2 years after having a freaking stroke. He can have any job in MA that he wants, maybe a spot on the 5th quarter or something - he's an articulate and intelligent guy. He's got a young family, two daughters I believe.Walk away healthy my man - you've got nothing left to prove.

Great, not

 

[Spike]

Other than Colvin and Harrison, since Belichick arrived, who have the Patriots signed as free agents of any real consequence? The only other player of note that I remember was Antowain Smith.

Mostly bargain basement useful players- although Vrabel has been exceptional. Phifer, Izzo (special teams), Patten had moments. They traded for Washington, who was a monster while he here.

My point was that premium players have not come to town BY CHOICE. Washington was great . . . for a single season . . . and left. Dillon has been solid . . . but was acquired by trade.Clearly more notable players have LEFT the team than have JOINED it (Woody, McGinnest, Vinatieri, Branch, Law, Givens, etc.).

Certainly we can't knock the team too much because they have been successful. But I suspect that the players the Pats might wish to spend their bounty of cap money on will get better offers from other teams.

Which gets us to the question, which is better. Having some marquee players that might cost a million dollars a year more than you are prepared to pay, or more role players or middle of the road players with less talent (see this year's WR corps as an example).

Coaching and game planning can only go so far, and the 05 and 06 teams illustrated that. The 03 and 04 teams showed what a bevy of talent and great coaching can do.

So IMO the Pats need to get more talented or they may be in the same situation as last year and this year once the playoffs role around.

Well, Branch was traded, so it's a bit different for him, but......the others got ridiculously high contracts when they left New England - to the point where no one I heard of in the New England area said the Pats were wrong in letting them go.

 

[Spike]

[2 good backups (David Thomas and Ryan O'Callaghan). A decent haul but Chad Jackson will make or break this draft.

I read more than once and from different sources that O'Callaghan was more than satisfactory at RT this year. He should be a long-term starter. I think he was one of the steals of last year's draft. Correct me if I'm wrong, homers. I trust your input.

 

[Pat Patriot]

[2 good backups (David Thomas and Ryan O'Callaghan). A decent haul but Chad Jackson will make or break this draft.

I read more than once and from different sources that O'Callaghan was more than satisfactory at RT this year. He should be a long-term starter. I think he was one of the steals of last year's draft. Correct me if I'm wrong, homers. I trust your input.

I saw Kaczur playing RT more than O'Callaghan and they are both young so I didnt think it was definite that O'Callaghan would win that job. That is why I listed him as a good backup. He certainly good win that job as he did play significant minutes this year.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Other than Colvin and Harrison, since Belichick arrived, who have the Patriots signed as free agents of any real consequence? The only other player of note that I remember was Antowain Smith.

Mostly bargain basement useful players- although Vrabel has been exceptional. Phifer, Izzo (special teams), Patten had moments. They traded for Washington, who was a monster while he here.

My point was that premium players have not come to town BY CHOICE. Washington was great . . . for a single season . . . and left. Dillon has been solid . . . but was acquired by trade.Clearly more notable players have LEFT the team than have JOINED it (Woody, McGinnest, Vinatieri, Branch, Law, Givens, etc.).

Certainly we can't knock the team too much because they have been successful. But I suspect that the players the Pats might wish to spend their bounty of cap money on will get better offers from other teams.

Which gets us to the question, which is better. Having some marquee players that might cost a million dollars a year more than you are prepared to pay, or more role players or middle of the road players with less talent (see this year's WR corps as an example).

Coaching and game planning can only go so far, and the 05 and 06 teams illustrated that. The 03 and 04 teams showed what a bevy of talent and great coaching can do.

So IMO the Pats need to get more talented or they may be in the same situation as last year and this year once the playoffs role around.

Well, Branch was traded, so it's a bit different for him, but......the others got ridiculously high contracts when they left New England - to the point where no one I heard of in the New England area said the Pats were wrong in letting them go.

Out of all of the bolded players, the only one that I think you would even get a split opinion on was Vinatieri.McGinest - I worshiped the guy (part of that was seeing him around Quincy where I lived so often) and he was great for many years, but I could do nothing but wish him well when Romeo gave him the contract that he did.

Givens - Got very close to #1 WR money. There is no way they could have resigned him especially when they were still working on trying to sign Branch.

Woody - Crazy contract from Detroit. Never approached the player he was in NE. Woody was very talented but also kind of lazy. Not surprising that he tailed off after getting the truly big bucks.

Law - True Salary Cap casualty. That and injuries caught up to him a bit. I would have loved to see the Pats resign Law this past year. For what he got in KC, I'm not sure why they couldnt get it done.

Branch - Based on negotiations, the Pats found out the hard way that the guy just wanted TOO MUCH MONEY. They did very well in getting a 1st round pick for him. Some dont realize how valuable 1st round picks in the teens or 20's are. The Pats have Ben Watson, Vince Wilfork and Ty Warren all tied up for the next 3 years at between $1-2 million on the salary cap. That is AWESOME value. Whoever we get at 24 most likely wont be as good as Branch but we will have him tied up at a nice number for 6 years.

Vinatieri - I have proven that I cant rationally discuss him so I wont try.

 

[Pat Patriot]

[2 good backups (David Thomas and Ryan O'Callaghan). A decent haul but Chad Jackson will make or break this draft.

I read more than once and from different sources that O'Callaghan was more than satisfactory at RT this year. He should be a long-term starter. I think he was one of the steals of last year's draft. Correct me if I'm wrong, homers. I trust your input.

I dont know how many games O'Callaghan started but I wouldnt say he was entrenched. Kaczur was the starter in the playoffs. I believe O'Callaghan was part of the group that had the flu the week of the Indy game but he did dress.

 

[David Yudkin]

Other than Colvin and Harrison, since Belichick arrived, who have the Patriots signed as free agents of any real consequence? The only other player of note that I remember was Antowain Smith.

Mostly bargain basement useful players- although Vrabel has been exceptional. Phifer, Izzo (special teams), Patten had moments. They traded for Washington, who was a monster while he here.

My point was that premium players have not come to town BY CHOICE. Washington was great . . . for a single season . . . and left. Dillon has been solid . . . but was acquired by trade.Clearly more notable players have LEFT the team than have JOINED it (Woody, McGinnest, Vinatieri, Branch, Law, Givens, etc.).

Certainly we can't knock the team too much because they have been successful. But I suspect that the players the Pats might wish to spend their bounty of cap money on will get better offers from other teams.

Which gets us to the question, which is better. Having some marquee players that might cost a million dollars a year more than you are prepared to pay, or more role players or middle of the road players with less talent (see this year's WR corps as an example).

Coaching and game planning can only go so far, and the 05 and 06 teams illustrated that. The 03 and 04 teams showed what a bevy of talent and great coaching can do.

So IMO the Pats need to get more talented or they may be in the same situation as last year and this year once the playoffs role around.

Well, Branch was traded, so it's a bit different for him, but......the others got ridiculously high contracts when they left New England - to the point where no one I heard of in the New England area said the Pats were wrong in letting them go.

I'm not saying that the guys that left should or should not have been retained. But the fact is that they lost quite a few people and didn't really restock with other players. They instead have gone will retooling through the draft and with bargain free agents. They've still won but haven't gotten as far as year's past. Whether that is a coincidence or not is open for debate (and we've been discussing it).

 

[Pat Patriot]

How well are they doing in the later rounds though. I know everyone thought the Patriots should go LB with a good drafting class, yet they didn't. I actually read that since 2000, they have only drafted five LBs, and only Banta-Cain is still with the team.

I've read in the past that the Patriots do not believe most college schemes make it possible to evaluate LBs for their style of 3-4 defense, that's why you don't see them drafting many DE/LB...instead they'd rather look to free agency...who are the top free agents who could play ILB that the Patriots have a chance of acquiring?

The problem is college defenses really don't translate to what the Pats do as well as the size they like their LBs. The Pats run a 3-4 where the LBs are expected to be very multi-dimensional in both the run and passing game. Much of what their LBs does is new to any college football player so there's a big learning curve. As for the size issue...including Willie last year every starter for the Pats in the last two years (Willie, Vrabel, Colvin, Bruschi and Banta-Cain) with the exception of Junior was a D-lineman in college. That means that while a guy like Cato June is a quality free agent he probably doesn't make sense for the Pats. One thing I would like to see is Vrabel moving to the inside full time (as well as adding a badass, athletic pass rusher to the outside). The guy's a big time player but he's nearing an age where he could lose a half a step. If he's inside that won't be the issue it could be on the outside. Also, he's very intelligent and would be able to take over the traffic cop role that Tedy currently has. As for Tedy I'd like to see him go more to a role similar to what Ted Johnson had his last few years. More of a situational run stopper.

What the Pats do with this position this offseason is very important to their immediate and long term future. While the strength of this D is the D-line a BB defense is centered around LB play. With Ted getting older and Banta Cain looking more like a role player than a legit starter this is an area that has to be addressed this offseason. How they do it will be very interesting to watch and will go a long way towards how the 07 team fairs.

I have to disagree with this 100%. I think Vrabel is a playmaker on the outside and just another guy on the inside. Maybe it is because he didnt have as much experience inside but when he moved inside, you never heard anything about him.The Pats rush with their OLB and dont blitz the inside guys that much. The inside guys often end up in pass coverage (ie. Eric Alexander getting burnt by Brian Fletcher). I think in pass coverage is where Vrabel's lost step could show up more than his edge rushing. I say leave him on the outside and find an inside guy. However, it seems the Pats have struggled more finding inside guys than outside guys.

 

[Boston]

How well are they doing in the later rounds though. I know everyone thought the Patriots should go LB with a good drafting class, yet they didn't. I actually read that since 2000, they have only drafted five LBs, and only Banta-Cain is still with the team.

I've read in the past that the Patriots do not believe most college schemes make it possible to evaluate LBs for their style of 3-4 defense, that's why you don't see them drafting many DE/LB...instead they'd rather look to free agency...who are the top free agents who could play ILB that the Patriots have a chance of acquiring?

The problem is college defenses really don't translate to what the Pats do as well as the size they like their LBs. The Pats run a 3-4 where the LBs are expected to be very multi-dimensional in both the run and passing game. Much of what their LBs does is new to any college football player so there's a big learning curve. As for the size issue...including Willie last year every starter for the Pats in the last two years (Willie, Vrabel, Colvin, Bruschi and Banta-Cain) with the exception of Junior was a D-lineman in college. That means that while a guy like Cato June is a quality free agent he probably doesn't make sense for the Pats. One thing I would like to see is Vrabel moving to the inside full time (as well as adding a badass, athletic pass rusher to the outside). The guy's a big time player but he's nearing an age where he could lose a half a step. If he's inside that won't be the issue it could be on the outside. Also, he's very intelligent and would be able to take over the traffic cop role that Tedy currently has. As for Tedy I'd like to see him go more to a role similar to what Ted Johnson had his last few years. More of a situational run stopper.

What the Pats do with this position this offseason is very important to their immediate and long term future. While the strength of this D is the D-line a BB defense is centered around LB play. With Ted getting older and Banta Cain looking more like a role player than a legit starter this is an area that has to be addressed this offseason. How they do it will be very interesting to watch and will go a long way towards how the 07 team fairs.

I have to disagree with this 100%. I think Vrabel is a playmaker on the outside and just another guy on the inside. Maybe it is because he didnt have as much experience inside but when he moved inside, you never heard anything about him.The Pats rush with their OLB and dont blitz the inside guys that much. The inside guys often end up in pass coverage (ie. Eric Alexander getting burnt by Brian Fletcher). I think in pass coverage is where Vrabel's lost step could show up more than his edge rushing. I say leave him on the outside and find an inside guy. However, it seems the Pats have struggled more finding inside guys than outside guys.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think the Pats need more athleticism on the outside. Vrabel does a very good job there but adding someone on the outside with more speed/playmaking ability and putting a stout and intelligent Vrabel on the inside is something I feel could really benefit this team. I wouldn't be surprised if Vrabel stays on the outside for another year but I really feel his future is on the inside. I don't buy that he can't cover because the guy has proven he can adapt to any situation and if he commits to the inside I have little doubt he'll be very effective there for the next 2-3 years.Regardless of where he ends up I think we both agree that this unit needs a solid shot in the arm...I'm very interested to see what this unit looks like come July. BB's D is built around the LBs and right now they need some more talent if they're going to stay effective. No more Monty Beisels, Barry Gardners or Chad Browns...they need to add a legit player or two to this unit.

 

[Pat Patriot]

How well are they doing in the later rounds though. I know everyone thought the Patriots should go LB with a good drafting class, yet they didn't. I actually read that since 2000, they have only drafted five LBs, and only Banta-Cain is still with the team.

I've read in the past that the Patriots do not believe most college schemes make it possible to evaluate LBs for their style of 3-4 defense, that's why you don't see them drafting many DE/LB...instead they'd rather look to free agency...who are the top free agents who could play ILB that the Patriots have a chance of acquiring?

The problem is college defenses really don't translate to what the Pats do as well as the size they like their LBs. The Pats run a 3-4 where the LBs are expected to be very multi-dimensional in both the run and passing game. Much of what their LBs does is new to any college football player so there's a big learning curve. As for the size issue...including Willie last year every starter for the Pats in the last two years (Willie, Vrabel, Colvin, Bruschi and Banta-Cain) with the exception of Junior was a D-lineman in college. That means that while a guy like Cato June is a quality free agent he probably doesn't make sense for the Pats. One thing I would like to see is Vrabel moving to the inside full time (as well as adding a badass, athletic pass rusher to the outside). The guy's a big time player but he's nearing an age where he could lose a half a step. If he's inside that won't be the issue it could be on the outside. Also, he's very intelligent and would be able to take over the traffic cop role that Tedy currently has. As for Tedy I'd like to see him go more to a role similar to what Ted Johnson had his last few years. More of a situational run stopper.

What the Pats do with this position this offseason is very important to their immediate and long term future. While the strength of this D is the D-line a BB defense is centered around LB play. With Ted getting older and Banta Cain looking more like a role player than a legit starter this is an area that has to be addressed this offseason. How they do it will be very interesting to watch and will go a long way towards how the 07 team fairs.

I have to disagree with this 100%. I think Vrabel is a playmaker on the outside and just another guy on the inside. Maybe it is because he didnt have as much experience inside but when he moved inside, you never heard anything about him.The Pats rush with their OLB and dont blitz the inside guys that much. The inside guys often end up in pass coverage (ie. Eric Alexander getting burnt by Brian Fletcher). I think in pass coverage is where Vrabel's lost step could show up more than his edge rushing. I say leave him on the outside and find an inside guy. However, it seems the Pats have struggled more finding inside guys than outside guys.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think the Pats need more athleticism on the outside. Vrabel does a very good job there but adding someone on the outside with more speed/playmaking ability and putting a stout and intelligent Vrabel on the inside is something I feel could really benefit this team. I wouldn't be surprised if Vrabel stays on the outside for another year but I really feel his future is on the inside. I don't buy that he can't cover because the guy has proven he can adapt to any situation and if he commits to the inside I have little doubt he'll be very effective there for the next 2-3 years.Regardless of where he ends up I think we both agree that this unit needs a solid shot in the arm...I'm very interested to see what this unit looks like come July. BB's D is built around the LBs and right now they need some more talent if they're going to stay effective. No more Monty Beisels, Barry Gardners or Chad Browns...they need to add a legit player or two to this unit.

I think we agree about more than we disagree. It just seems to me that the BB defense has always had the big stout veteran OLB (Willie McGinest) and the quick athletic OLB (once Vrable and now Colvin). I think Vrabel is in the process of making the switch from the Colvin role to the McGinest role.

 

[Boston]

How well are they doing in the later rounds though. I know everyone thought the Patriots should go LB with a good drafting class, yet they didn't. I actually read that since 2000, they have only drafted five LBs, and only Banta-Cain is still with the team.

I've read in the past that the Patriots do not believe most college schemes make it possible to evaluate LBs for their style of 3-4 defense, that's why you don't see them drafting many DE/LB...instead they'd rather look to free agency...who are the top free agents who could play ILB that the Patriots have a chance of acquiring?

The problem is college defenses really don't translate to what the Pats do as well as the size they like their LBs. The Pats run a 3-4 where the LBs are expected to be very multi-dimensional in both the run and passing game. Much of what their LBs does is new to any college football player so there's a big learning curve. As for the size issue...including Willie last year every starter for the Pats in the last two years (Willie, Vrabel, Colvin, Bruschi and Banta-Cain) with the exception of Junior was a D-lineman in college. That means that while a guy like Cato June is a quality free agent he probably doesn't make sense for the Pats. One thing I would like to see is Vrabel moving to the inside full time (as well as adding a badass, athletic pass rusher to the outside). The guy's a big time player but he's nearing an age where he could lose a half a step. If he's inside that won't be the issue it could be on the outside. Also, he's very intelligent and would be able to take over the traffic cop role that Tedy currently has. As for Tedy I'd like to see him go more to a role similar to what Ted Johnson had his last few years. More of a situational run stopper.

What the Pats do with this position this offseason is very important to their immediate and long term future. While the strength of this D is the D-line a BB defense is centered around LB play. With Ted getting older and Banta Cain looking more like a role player than a legit starter this is an area that has to be addressed this offseason. How they do it will be very interesting to watch and will go a long way towards how the 07 team fairs.

I have to disagree with this 100%. I think Vrabel is a playmaker on the outside and just another guy on the inside. Maybe it is because he didnt have as much experience inside but when he moved inside, you never heard anything about him.The Pats rush with their OLB and dont blitz the inside guys that much. The inside guys often end up in pass coverage (ie. Eric Alexander getting burnt by Brian Fletcher). I think in pass coverage is where Vrabel's lost step could show up more than his edge rushing. I say leave him on the outside and find an inside guy. However, it seems the Pats have struggled more finding inside guys than outside guys.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think the Pats need more athleticism on the outside. Vrabel does a very good job there but adding someone on the outside with more speed/playmaking ability and putting a stout and intelligent Vrabel on the inside is something I feel could really benefit this team. I wouldn't be surprised if Vrabel stays on the outside for another year but I really feel his future is on the inside. I don't buy that he can't cover because the guy has proven he can adapt to any situation and if he commits to the inside I have little doubt he'll be very effective there for the next 2-3 years.Regardless of where he ends up I think we both agree that this unit needs a solid shot in the arm...I'm very interested to see what this unit looks like come July. BB's D is built around the LBs and right now they need some more talent if they're going to stay effective. No more Monty Beisels, Barry Gardners or Chad Browns...they need to add a legit player or two to this unit.

I think we agree about more than we disagree. It just seems to me that the BB defense has always had the big stout veteran OLB (Willie McGinest) and the quick athletic OLB (once Vrable and now Colvin). I think Vrabel is in the process of making the switch from the Colvin role to the McGinest role.

Absolutely could be the case. Regardless of where he ends up I really want to see them obtain an impact LB that can make a difference right from game one. Not a project or a guy that is limited but a legit talent that can give this D more looks and more atleticism.

 

[nerangers]

Hey guys,

I know this is the wrong thread for this post, but only true Patriot fans are going to care anyway.

Patriots | NFL admits to making mistake on Hobbs' pass interference flag

Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:48:13 -0800

Shalise Manza Young, of the Providence Journal, reports the NFL has admitted it was wrong to flag New England Patriots CB Ellis Hobbs for defensive pass interference during the Patriots' AFC Championship Game loss. Hobbs was face-guarding Indianapolis Colts WR Reggie Wayne in the corner of the endzone on the play. The pass hit Hobbs in the left arm and Hobbs said he never touched Wayne on the play. League official Dean Blandino confirmed to Jaguars.com's Vic Ketchman that it was a bad call. Blandino said Hobbs did nothing to impede Wayne from catching the ball, and he did not make contact with the receiver.

 

[nerangers]

I know we been talking that a few Patriots probably should retire...Dillon and Harrison are not planning on it. KFFL also reported that both Rodney Harrison, and Corey Dillon both want to be Patriots again next year. The part about Dillon not thinking they will need to renegotiate caught my eye though! I think he is a 4 Million dollar cap hit next year, and not on the field as much as in the past. I don't know what Harrison's cap numbers are, but I am assuming it is manageable, or negotionable. Here is a full Cory Dillon Thread on FBG discussing the matter.

Patriots | Dillon looking to return

Fri, 26 Jan 2007 09:33:38 -0800

John Tomase, of the Boston Herald, reports the agent for New England Patriots RB Corey Dillon believes Dillon still wants to play again next season and does not expect the team to try and renegotiate his contract. Dillon will count $4.4 million against the salary cap next season. "I'm sure he'll figure everything out in the offseason," agent Steve Feldman said. "But based on my conversations with him, he has a significant desire to continue playing." "I don't think it will be a problem, when all the factors are taken into consideration, as far as manipulating the cap," Feldman added. "[i]I don't think they're going to ask him to renegotiate. They've always treated him with the utmost respect."

Patriots | Harrison determined to return next season

Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:27:41 -0800

Karen Guregian, of the Boston Herald, reports the agent for New England Patriots SS Rodney Harrison says Harrison plans to return next season. "He's definitely coming back next year. He's never thought at all about retiring," agent Steve Feldman said. "If it don't kill you, it's going to make you stronger, and I think he's definitely more determined to play and have a good year."

 

[Spike]

Hey guys,

I know this is the wrong thread for this post, but only true Patriot fans are going to care anyway.

Patriots | NFL admits to making mistake on Hobbs' pass interference flag

Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:48:13 -0800

Shalise Manza Young, of the Providence Journal, reports the NFL has admitted it was wrong to flag New England Patriots CB Ellis Hobbs for defensive pass interference during the Patriots' AFC Championship Game loss. Hobbs was face-guarding Indianapolis Colts WR Reggie Wayne in the corner of the endzone on the play. The pass hit Hobbs in the left arm and Hobbs said he never touched Wayne on the play. League official Dean Blandino confirmed to Jaguars.com's Vic Ketchman that it was a bad call. Blandino said Hobbs did nothing to impede Wayne from catching the ball, and he did not make contact with the receiver.

Interesting.I absolutely thought it was a penalty because I thought face-guarding meant you never turned for the ball, not that you made contact with the intended target while not turning for the ball.

 

[David Yudkin]

Hey guys,

I know this is the wrong thread for this post, but only true Patriot fans are going to care anyway.

Patriots | NFL admits to making mistake on Hobbs' pass interference flag

Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:48:13 -0800

Shalise Manza Young, of the Providence Journal, reports the NFL has admitted it was wrong to flag New England Patriots CB Ellis Hobbs for defensive pass interference during the Patriots' AFC Championship Game loss. Hobbs was face-guarding Indianapolis Colts WR Reggie Wayne in the corner of the endzone on the play. The pass hit Hobbs in the left arm and Hobbs said he never touched Wayne on the play. League official Dean Blandino confirmed to Jaguars.com's Vic Ketchman that it was a bad call. Blandino said Hobbs did nothing to impede Wayne from catching the ball, and he did not make contact with the receiver.

Interesting.I absolutely thought it was a penalty because I thought face-guarding meant you never turned for the ball, not that you made contact with the intended target while not turning for the ball.

Long story short, faceguarding is no longer a penalty. The only penalty available on that play was pass interference, and that is only enforcable if contact is made (but Hobbs didn't make contact with Watne).

 

[My_Favorite_Team_is]

Hey guys,

I know this is the wrong thread for this post, but only true Patriot fans are going to care anyway.

Patriots | NFL admits to making mistake on Hobbs' pass interference flag

Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:48:13 -0800

Shalise Manza Young, of the Providence Journal, reports the NFL has admitted it was wrong to flag New England Patriots CB Ellis Hobbs for defensive pass interference during the Patriots' AFC Championship Game loss. Hobbs was face-guarding Indianapolis Colts WR Reggie Wayne in the corner of the endzone on the play. The pass hit Hobbs in the left arm and Hobbs said he never touched Wayne on the play. League official Dean Blandino confirmed to Jaguars.com's Vic Ketchman that it was a bad call. Blandino said Hobbs did nothing to impede Wayne from catching the ball, and he did not make contact with the receiver.

Interesting.I absolutely thought it was a penalty because I thought face-guarding meant you never turned for the ball, not that you made contact with the intended target while not turning for the ball.

Long story short, faceguarding is no longer a penalty. The only penalty available on that play was pass interference, and that is only enforcable if contact is made (but Hobbs didn't make contact with Watne).

Now if they'd only admit to being wrong for NOT flagging the Caldwell play in the end zone...oh well, sour grapes over that one game, thankfully there are a few trophies that could use some polishing. j/k

I don't want him at all. I've been screaming for them to play his backup for a couple years now. (Hope Herm gives him a chance now BTW) Mitchell reacts too slow and/or takes too long to shed a block. He plays his position well in theory but by the time he hits the RB he's always got 3 yards already. That would frustrate me to no end if he was on the Pats.

Indy was run on all regular season, not sure I'd want any of their LBers either.

Maybe Bruschi's spoiled me and I'm being picky

Bruschi has spoiled me as well but realistically looking at Mitchell is not that far off in my opinion...he played middle line backer in the 4-3 @KC but the line compared to New England's far below in talent and size. He seems to make plays a little slow on the run but his coverage skills are pretty decent. I wouldn't go break the bank for him but I think as compared to the type of cash that must be spent on the upper tier players may be worth it. However, Monty Biesel was from KC and how did that turn out... :X The Colts defensive woes are merely symptoms of the style of defense that Polian and Dungy implemented in Indy...fast, small DL to aggressively collapse the pocket while on the turf in the dome. It will be interesting to see if the philosphy of the Colts draft over the next couple years as they get ready to move into thier new stadium. But to the point, I like June's speed and youth...he certainly has the coverage skills and seems like a fairly intelligent player (rarely see him out of position), I wonder if he could switch to ILB. Morris is slightly bigger 2 inches and 25 lbs which could be a plus but his speed isn't on line with June. Still a very decent player and seems to up his play in the playoffs.

Another possible FA in my eyes would be Donnie Edwards yet I think he would be regulated to situational work much like Seau. I wonder what you all think (not just of my ramblings but of what other possible FA/Rookies available).

Edit to add: 2 years ago I was really hoping that they would not pass on Mosi's son, this year I have already jinxed them by hoping they don't pass on Steve DeOssie's kid....

 

[nerangers]

Hey Guys...just passing some info along...know we all been agreeing it is time to work on the LB issue the Patriots have. Patriots.com was breaking down current players (Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Junior Seau, Rosevelt Colvin, Tully Banta-Cain, Eric Alexander / Barry Gardner, Larry Izzo / Don Davis, Pierre Woods / Corey Mays) and what direction should be taken for 2007. I think we are all on target with what needs to happen with the line backing corp...youth and speed!

positional review: Linebackers (full article)

Here was the Outlook for 2007:

Outlook for 2007: The Patriots are probably going to have to bring the average age in the linebacker group down by adding younger players. Vrabel and Bruschi should still have some gas left in the tank (and that’s if Bruschi returns), but these Super Bowl vets can’t continue forever. The problem with the Patriots 3-4 defense is that it’s tough to ask rookies to step in, because they often don’t have the playing strength to compete. As an answer to that problem, the Pats like to transform defensive ends into linebackers, but that often means learning pass coverage from scratch. The Belichick/Scott Pioli combo has never selected a linebacker before the fifth round. Sure, they passed on DeMeco Ryans and a few others in the draft last season, but picking out guys that are going to transition so smoothly is a tall task. Belichick seems to like bringing in seasoned veterans like Roman Phifer, and he has lauded free agent-in-waiting London Baker-Fletcher from the Bills for his rangey, agressive style of play. The Colts Cato June is also going to be a free agent, and the Ravens Adalius Thomas is an excellent outside linebacker who'll be on the market, but he could carry a high price tag.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Hey Guys...just passing some info along...know we all been agreeing it is time to work on the LB issue the Patriots have. Patriots.com was breaking down current players (Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Junior Seau, Rosevelt Colvin, Tully Banta-Cain, Eric Alexander / Barry Gardner, Larry Izzo / Don Davis, Pierre Woods / Corey Mays) and what direction should be taken for 2007. I think we are all on target with what needs to happen with the line backing corp...youth and speed!

positional review: Linebackers (full article)

Here was the Outlook for 2007:

Outlook for 2007: The Patriots are probably going to have to bring the average age in the linebacker group down by adding younger players. Vrabel and Bruschi should still have some gas left in the tank (and that’s if Bruschi returns), but these Super Bowl vets can’t continue forever. The problem with the Patriots 3-4 defense is that it’s tough to ask rookies to step in, because they often don’t have the playing strength to compete. As an answer to that problem, the Pats like to transform defensive ends into linebackers, but that often means learning pass coverage from scratch. The Belichick/Scott Pioli combo has never selected a linebacker before the fifth round. Sure, they passed on DeMeco Ryans and a few others in the draft last season, but picking out guys that are going to transition so smoothly is a tall task. Belichick seems to like bringing in seasoned veterans like Roman Phifer, and he has lauded free agent-in-waiting London Baker-Fletcher from the Bills for his rangey, agressive style of play. The Colts Cato June is also going to be a free agent, and the Ravens Adalius Thomas is an excellent outside linebacker who'll be on the market, but he could carry a high price tag.

I would LOVE London Baker-Fletcher. He is getting long in the tooth but the guy can still play. I like him.

 

[PMENFAN]

Which of the Pats free agents will the Jets steal?

Pass? He's solid, but not great. Upgrade over Sowell. Evans would also be a consideration. With Mills on the Roster, does Evans become expendable here? The guys is a solid lead blocker, decent hands, and can occasionally carry the ball. Never will be a star, but a decent role guy that will come cheap. I can't see both of these guys with the Pats next year. I more so see Pass going, because of the recent injury history, and keeping Evans and MIlls with a draftee or somebody new in the mix.

Heard an interesting stat on WEEI today. Here is the Pats record with and without Rodney Harrison the past four years:When he plays/regular season-38-6When he plays/playoffs-6-0When he doesn't play/regular season-13-8When he doesn't play/playoffs-3-2This guy is still an incredibly important cog in what the Pats do. His toughness and leadership give the D an edge/toughness/smartness that just doesn't exist when he's out. He's a player you can't understand how good he is unless you watch him play every play of every game. He's just an animal consumed by winning. They definetly need him back next season, they're not ready to transistion away from him yet. On the flipside, they need to find his eventual replacement this offseason as you can only rely so much on a player his age and recent injury history. Finding that replacement will not be easy by any means but it's a reality that needs to be addressed.

I think the injuries to Harrison were more freak. They weren't like broken bone injuries. The knee last year was just a pile up, and maybe he just came back too early on this one? It was just about a year. The number don't lie. He's brilliant back there, and he can still play. He starys in peak physical condition. This knee injury isn't close to last years, and he'll easilly be back next year at 100% to start the season. He doesn't have 5 years left, but 2 at least, and maybe 3.

 

[PMENFAN]

Which of the Pats free agents will the Jets steal?

Pass? He's solid, but not great. Upgrade over Sowell. Evans would also be a consideration. With Mills on the Roster, does Evans become expendable here? The guys is a solid lead blocker, decent hands, and can occasionally carry the ball. Never will be a star, but a decent role guy that will come cheap. I can't see both of these guys with the Pats next year. I more so see Pass going, because of the recent injury history, and keeping Evans and MIlls with a draftee or somebody new in the mix.

Heard an interesting stat on WEEI today. Here is the Pats record with and without Rodney Harrison the past four years:When he plays/regular season-38-6When he plays/playoffs-6-0When he doesn't play/regular season-13-8When he doesn't play/playoffs-3-2This guy is still an incredibly important cog in what the Pats do. His toughness and leadership give the D an edge/toughness/smartness that just doesn't exist when he's out. He's a player you can't understand how good he is unless you watch him play every play of every game. He's just an animal consumed by winning. They definetly need him back next season, they're not ready to transistion away from him yet. On the flipside, they need to find his eventual replacement this offseason as you can only rely so much on a player his age and recent injury history. Finding that replacement will not be easy by any means but it's a reality that needs to be addressed.

I think the injuries to Harrison were more frek. They weren't like broken bone injuries. The knee last year was just a pile up, and maybe he just came back too early on this one? It was just about a year. The number don't lie. He's brilliant back there, and he can still play. He starys in peak physical condition. This knee injury isn't close to last years, and he'll easilly be back next year at 100% to start the season. He doesn't have 5 years left, but 2 at least, and maybe 3.

The LB's are the largest area of concern for me. Having never seen Mays or Woods, I really don't know. I liked a lot of what I saw from Alexander in the run game. I am terrified of what I saw in the pass game. That said, how much help over the top would he have been getting with Harrison or Wilson in there? It's a long way on the depth chart from Harrison to Rashad Baker. So, that's has to factor in. Yeah, he was burnt, bad, but was he expecting help? It didn't look like a speed issue, so that's good. It looked like a learning issue as well, so that's good too. Fruschi? I have to wonder if there wasn't a nagging injury of some sort that we'll hear about this off season. Sort of like Brady and the sports hernia last season. He's not that old, and he's not the type of guy that I would have expected to drop off so far so fast. I expect him to come back a little bit stronger next season. Maybe overly optomistic, but he's the heartbeat of the front 7. The loss would be huge. Vrabel. I think he's capable in both positions. He gets by mostly on smarts, and capitalizing on the scheme. He's the epitome of the guy that is made better by coming to NE. I love Fletcher, and he's be a good signing, especially if we lose either Bruschi or Seau. If we can get him, we can let SEau go. He'll be here a few years. Thomas would be huge. Keep Banta-Cain as a backup, with Thomas and Colvin on the outside. Vrabel and Bruschi/Fletcher on the inside. That's a pretty signifigant upgrade. That's also a lot of cash to bring in those two. I'd settle for just Thomas. The line play will be better. The 'other' guys. I'd like to see what they can do. To play devils advocate here, we've never developed a linebacker here. Bruschi was already here. So was Willie. Granted we're going for the long shots, but eventually we've got to find somebody. Banta-Cain, I guess, can be considered developed. That's one. It's a tough position to play. But, there's never been any new blood introduced from the draft. It's getting to crunch time. Maybe Gardner, Alexander, Woods or Mays is the next guy. But, I've got to say, those four spots. Two of which I think we're very solid in with Colvin, and Vrabel have me very worried in the short run.

 

[nerangers]

Hey Guys...a good read from boston.com:

Belichick weighs in on 2006 season

It is a long read, but one to check out. After the 2006 season, I really was starting to wonder about Belichick more from a personel standpoint than just a coach (and how it reflected on Patriot fans, and also the league). The article reflected on all of the aspects of the season, both the good and the bad, with a few glimpses to 2007. Also in reading it, you get the impression that Belichick likes where he is, and is not planning on leaving any time soon. He is designing the team for the long haul!

When you look at the WR picture for 2006, you really have to be amazed how far the Patriots got. The defense was setting records though ( the Patriots set a franchise record for fewest points allowed in a 16-game season (237). I think that is what kept them in the game. It also spoke how from 2001 to 2006 the team is getting younger...I'd like to see those numbers, because it did not seem like that was the case the last few years.

Enjoy...

 

[Pat Patriot]

Hey Guys...a good read from boston.com:

Belichick weighs in on 2006 season

It is a long read, but one to check out. After the 2006 season, I really was starting to wonder about Belichick more from a personel standpoint than just a coach (and how it reflected on Patriot fans, and also the league). The article reflected on all of the aspects of the season, both the good and the bad, with a few glimpses to 2007. Also in reading it, you get the impression that Belichick likes where he is, and is not planning on leaving any time soon. He is designing the team for the long haul!

When you look at the WR picture for 2006, you really have to be amazed how far the Patriots got. The defense was setting records though ( the Patriots set a franchise record for fewest points allowed in a 16-game season (237). I think that is what kept them in the game. It also spoke how from 2001 to 2006 the team is getting younger...I'd like to see those numbers, because it did not seem like that was the case the last few years.

Enjoy...

Great article. Thanks for posting that.

 

[Pat Patriot]

I just got done watching "America's Game - 2004 Patriots #9" and all I can say is The Patriots sure do miss Rodney Harrison. A completely different defense without him.

 

[BGP]

Hey guys, I know the draft is always the Pats time to shine. You never know houw well the draft was though until the season is over (or a few seasons for some players). In the past, the Patriots have hit home runs with value in the first round:defensive end Richard Seymour (No. 6, 2001)tight end Daniel Graham (No. 21, 2002)defensive end Ty Warren (No. 13, 2003)nose tackle Vince Wilfork (No. 21, 2004)tight end Benjamin Watson (No. 32, 2004)offensive guard Logan Mankins (No. 32, 2005)running back Laurence Maroney (No. 21, 2006) Looking forward to see who the Pats get with the 24th and 28th picks.How well are they doing in the later rounds though. I know everyone thought the Patriots should go LB with a good drafting class, yet they didn't. I actually read that since 2000, they have only drafted five LBs, and only Banta-Cain is still with the team. I am thinking based on last years draft, we could have gone LB instead of so heavy on TE. I thought they drafted Thomas to prepare for replacing Graham, and I was hoping they would draft Gostkowski, and he definitely stepped up his game. Jackson seemed like a letdown, but did show some flashes of what could be. Overall, I don't think this draft was a strong as many felt back then. We all felt the offense got a jolt, but here it is a year later, and we are still needing to address the linebacker position. 4/30/06 - PATRIOTS DRAFT BOARD 1 21 Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota 2 4 Chad Jackson, WR, Florida 3 22 David Thomas, TE, Texas 4 9 Garrett Mills, TE/FB, Tulsa 4 21 Stephen Gostkowksi, K, Memphis 5 3 Ryan O'Callaghan, OT, California 6 22 Jeremy Mincey, DE, Florida 6 36 Dan Stevenson, OG, Notre Dame 6 37 Le Kevin Smith, DT, Nebraska 7 21 Willie Andrews, S, Baylor Thoughts???

Right now I give the Pats draft a B- or C+ with the potential for that grade to jump greatly after next year. IMO, the Pats got 2 starters (Maroney and Gostkowski), 1 potential starter (Chad Jackson) and 2 good backups (David Thomas and Ryan O'Callaghan). A decent haul but Chad Jackson will make or break this draft.

Laf. If the Browns had a draft that good, they would get an A+ and everyone would be doing cartwheels.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Hey guys, I know the draft is always the Pats time to shine. You never know houw well the draft was though until the season is over (or a few seasons for some players). In the past, the Patriots have hit home runs with value in the first round:defensive end Richard Seymour (No. 6, 2001)tight end Daniel Graham (No. 21, 2002)defensive end Ty Warren (No. 13, 2003)nose tackle Vince Wilfork (No. 21, 2004)tight end Benjamin Watson (No. 32, 2004)offensive guard Logan Mankins (No. 32, 2005)running back Laurence Maroney (No. 21, 2006) Looking forward to see who the Pats get with the 24th and 28th picks.How well are they doing in the later rounds though. I know everyone thought the Patriots should go LB with a good drafting class, yet they didn't. I actually read that since 2000, they have only drafted five LBs, and only Banta-Cain is still with the team. I am thinking based on last years draft, we could have gone LB instead of so heavy on TE. I thought they drafted Thomas to prepare for replacing Graham, and I was hoping they would draft Gostkowski, and he definitely stepped up his game. Jackson seemed like a letdown, but did show some flashes of what could be. Overall, I don't think this draft was a strong as many felt back then. We all felt the offense got a jolt, but here it is a year later, and we are still needing to address the linebacker position. 4/30/06 - PATRIOTS DRAFT BOARD 1 21 Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota 2 4 Chad Jackson, WR, Florida 3 22 David Thomas, TE, Texas 4 9 Garrett Mills, TE/FB, Tulsa 4 21 Stephen Gostkowksi, K, Memphis 5 3 Ryan O'Callaghan, OT, California 6 22 Jeremy Mincey, DE, Florida 6 36 Dan Stevenson, OG, Notre Dame 6 37 Le Kevin Smith, DT, Nebraska 7 21 Willie Andrews, S, Baylor Thoughts???

Right now I give the Pats draft a B- or C+ with the potential for that grade to jump greatly after next year. IMO, the Pats got 2 starters (Maroney and Gostkowski), 1 potential starter (Chad Jackson) and 2 good backups (David Thomas and Ryan O'Callaghan). A decent haul but Chad Jackson will make or break this draft.

Laf. If the Browns had a draft that good, they would get an A+ and everyone would be doing cartwheels.

I think mid season this year the Pats would have gotten a B+ or A- but with the way Maroney finished and the lack of production from Jackson, the best I can give them is a B-.BGP,Not that I am rooting against your Browns, but I wouldnt mind having Romeo back in the fold. I more year of losing should do that.