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New England wr to benefit the most from the TE debacle? (1 Viewer)

The Fantasy Chef

Footballguy
I'm just wondering if this creates more value for those rookie wrs. To do better than say Rogers or Woods? Dare I say better then Tavon?

I like Dobson a lot but Maybe Boyce is the biggest beneficiary.

Tell me what your thoughts are guys?

 
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Pots

Footballguy
I think it hurts Amendola more than anything. Defenses make sure he's covered and there's not much option left.

 

rct

Footballguy
A dark horse would be Edelman. Amendola has had injury issues and Edelman is his backup and even with Amendola healthy they might work him into some 3-4 WR sets with Amendola. A long shot, but worth considering since he can still be had relatively cheaply (value up to this point has been as handcuff only to Amendola owners). Just my 2 cents.

 
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KCitons

Footballguy
So difficult to figure out right now. With all the WR's that NE has added this off season, we still don't even know who the #2 is going to be. I don't think it helps Amendola. If he was the #1 before the TE problems, nothing changed.

 

Boston

Footballguy
So difficult to figure out right now. With all the WR's that NE has added this off season, we still don't even know who the #2 is going to be. I don't think it helps Amendola. If he was the #1 before the TE problems, nothing changed.
Agreed...if Hernandez is a goner than it should help the WRs because the bottom-line is someone has to catch Brady's passes...the problem is it's anyone's guess what the unit will look like outside of Amendola being the top option...if healthy I still believe Edelman has a chance to have a good year but he has yet to show he can play a full 16 games...

 

KCitons

Footballguy
So difficult to figure out right now. With all the WR's that NE has added this off season, we still don't even know who the #2 is going to be. I don't think it helps Amendola. If he was the #1 before the TE problems, nothing changed.
Agreed...if Hernandez is a goner than it should help the WRs because the bottom-line is someone has to catch Brady's passes...the problem is it's anyone's guess what the unit will look like outside of Amendola being the top option...if healthy I still believe Edelman has a chance to have a good year but he has yet to show he can play a full 16 games...
Do you see Amendola as the #1 and Edelman as the #2? I thought they were similar and Edelman backed up Welker (now Amendola)

I see Edelman in more of the 3 or 4 WR sets. I see someone like Jenkins or Dobson as the every down #2 WR. Especially if NE starts the season lining up less frequently in two TE sets.

 
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The Fantasy Chef

Footballguy
I like the thoughts on the wrs guys. I hope that they will figure out an effective way to utilize the remaining and healthy Tes. Ballard in my opinion will be out there and with such a shortage. You might see Boyce in the slot at some point this year. Amendola has not played a full season in quite a while. They just might look to Jenkins he does have the athletic ability and now has a guy named Brady throwing to him. I think they will have to throw out the two te set package if Gronk is hurt.

 

We Tigers

Footballguy
It's wide open for Dobson if he can learn everything quickly enough. He's the only guy on the roster with the size and athleticism to step in for Hernandez. (I don't count Michael Jenkins because he's Michael Jenkins.). Dobson may go from unlikely to contribute to 9th/10th round flyer with upside.

If Hernandez is expected to miss a big chunk of the season, I think the Patriots need to strongly consider resigning Lloyd or someone like him. Maybe they'll give Dobson the summer to learn and just pick up Lloyd in the preseason if he doesn't get there quickly enough.

 

Boston

Footballguy
So difficult to figure out right now. With all the WR's that NE has added this off season, we still don't even know who the #2 is going to be. I don't think it helps Amendola. If he was the #1 before the TE problems, nothing changed.
Agreed...if Hernandez is a goner than it should help the WRs because the bottom-line is someone has to catch Brady's passes...the problem is it's anyone's guess what the unit will look like outside of Amendola being the top option...if healthy I still believe Edelman has a chance to have a good year but he has yet to show he can play a full 16 games...
Do you see Amendola as the #1 and Edelman as the #2? I thought they were similar and Edelman backed up Welker (now Amendola) I see Edelman in more of the 3 or 4 WR sets. I see someone like Jenkins or Dobson as the every down #2 WR. Especially if NE starts the season lining up less frequently in two TE sets.
I think it may be a mistake to look at "traditional" sets with regard to the Pats WRs this year...the big issue is we have no clue who is going to get playing time...as I have said before the #1 thing (there is not a close second) a Patriot WR must have is Brady's trust...if that is not there a WR is not going to be involved regardless of their measurables or past production...there have been a ton of past WRs (draft picks and veteran free agents) who looked good on paper who have not cut it due to this..they are not going to force a guy into a role simply because he fits the profile...as of right now Edelman is pretty much the only WR that will have worn a Patriots uniform before...it is known that Brady likes him and I really do believe he was poised to make a big jump last year...that being said he also could be one pre-season injury from not making the team...if he does stay healthy I like him to be the second most productive WR behind Amendola who seems to be really hitting it off with Brady so far...as for the other WRs like Jenkins, Boyce, Dobson and Jones it's anyone's guess as to what their role will be as of today...

 
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thriftyrocker

Footballguy
I don't expect huge yardage out of Dobson but his TD total could be in the 6-8 range if the TEs miss time.

Gotta start rostering Kenbrell Thompkins in deeper leagues too.

 

Zdravko

Footballguy
How frequent is it for a rookie to pick up an offense as complex as the Patriots' quickly enough to be a meaningful contributor?

Dobson, Boyce, Thompkins might be useful by the end of the season, but I expect only sporadic production with an occassional good week / big play here and there. Also, it's not like the Patriots will throw in the towell on the season and focus on building up rookies. Neither of these guys will see signfiicant playing time until they start shining and that can't happen without picking up the nuances of the playbook first.

Overall, you would expect a shift in the pass-run ratio and more rushes on early downs. Somehow I don't think Ridley gets the extra carries. Maybe Bolden? Vereen?

The targets will likely spread across a wider group of players, too wide for really significant fantasy impact. Vereen will see a few more catches than Woodhead did, but nothing Sproles-like. As discussed, the rookies will get a few looks every now and then, especially on deep balls that used to ball to Lloyd. Ballard and Hoomana will catch a few, but again - nothing startable in a regular league. Likely, the guys with the best chance to inherit the TE production until Gronk comes back are the experienced WRs - Jenkins, Donald Jones, Edelman. If one steps up and emerges as a weekly #2 guy for Brady, he would have high-end WR3 value.

I personally like Donald Jones the most of the bunch. He is fairly quick, good hands, experienced route runner, seemingly good guy in the locker room which is important for BB. Jones' stats were actually quite decent in Buffalo for playing with Fitzpatrick and in a fairly disfunctional offense. Edelman should be okay too.....until he goes down, which happens about every 6 quarters of football. Jenkins will probably spend the most time on the field of all WRs not named Amendola (because of blocking), but that doesn't translate into more than a few short catches per game.

 

Tackling Dummies

Footballguy
Overall, you would expect a shift in the pass-run ratio and more rushes on early downs. Somehow I don't think Ridley gets the extra carries. Maybe Bolden? Vereen?

The targets will likely spread across a wider group of players, too wide for really significant fantasy impact. Vereen will see a few more catches than Woodhead did, but nothing Sproles-like. As
Vereen has the opportunity to see h-u-g-e uptick in touches and I will not be surprised to see significantly more catches than Woodhead (40 in '12) when it's all over as a 1B to Amendola 1A option to be a get-the-ball-out-quick-routes. I do not own Vereen in any format. NE signing a retread WR route does not move the needle for Vereen either. Perfect position and you are not overpaying.

 

Shutout

Footballguy
IF We find out very soon that Hernandez is a loss for this season (soon enough for the Patriots to enter training camp and start building a planned reaction of how thye will use their personnel this season), then there is a player on that roster right now that I think will come out of nowhere and be a fantasy producer this year. If those things do not happen, then the entire opportunity is off the table and the player is perhaps not even worth rostering.

The player is Mark Harrison. Going back to how the Patriots always seem to add people to their roster that can do multiple things and, more importantly, are often trained to do multiple things, Harrison is a very intriguing player to me because physically he can emulate a lot of the things that the Patriots have liked to do with their primary formation. They can reatin the Welker role using Amendola and Edelman. They can maintain the outside role with Dobson, Jenkins, etc. They will have gronk at some point and the RBs are in place. What they can do with Harrison is basically convert him to a joker TE. Harrison has the physical size and speed and, maybe more importantly, he can block. He also has the fluidity to play that odd seldom used role where the Patriots line up and move Hernandez in and out of blocking alignments, split him out, drag him in, etc.

Like I said, this almost entirely hinges on the prospect of Hernandez's season and the timing of it but given the low, low price of what Harrison may be had for, he is a guy I have or will add to every league I have unless the news on Hernandez suddenly shifts in his favor.

 

EBF

Footballguy
I like Boyce's chances to surprise here. He's a freak athlete, was more productive than Dobson or Thompkins in college, and can line up in the slot or outside. He can do some of the things in space and as a slot weapon that Hernandez could do. I would caution against overlooking him on this team. It might not happen in year one, but he should become a good player for New England.

 

Warhogs

Footballguy
LBH said:
I think Vereen. I don't think it changes much at WR
I think this as well. New England has been very good at recognizing their best weapons and using them. They were not TE heavy in their scheme until Gonzo and Hernandez arrived. Looking at the skill players and I think those that benefit most are Gronk(when healthy), Amendola, Ridley and Vereen. Since the others have already large established roles I think Vereen picks up a lot of formations for Hernandez.

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
Frankbot said:
Where's Yudkin when you need him.
I'm here. I guessed Lloyd will end up being brought back. Or they could still trade for someone. It's hard to tell, because all the people clamoring the world is ending are fans and the general public, not the team itself.

 

PatsFanCT

Footballguy
I mentioned this in another thread, but you guys need to keep an eye on Zach Sudfeld this summer. I think he has some real potential.

 

KellysHeroes

Footballguy
LBH said:
I think Vereen. I don't think it changes much at WR
I think this as well. New England has been very good at recognizing their best weapons and using them. They were not TE heavy in their scheme until Gonzo and Hernandez arrived. Looking at the skill players and I think those that benefit most are Gronk(when healthy), Amendola, Ridley and Vereen. Since the others have already large established roles I think Vereen picks up a lot of formations for Hernandez.
there will be more passing downs now and Vereen & Washington should get more looks than they would of before.

DA should get a little extra focus from Ds but I also expect gronk to be rushed and get on the field sooner.

Whatever you expected from Dodson should stay the same.

Boyce and the other WRs should get some extra looks and a few extra chances.

Ballard, once Gronk is back to speed I expect the pats to be a more traditional 1 TE team w/ 3 or 4 WRs on the field.

 

Stealthycat

Footballguy
is there any possibility Coach B really did bring in Tebow, not as a QB but a TE option ?

IF Tebow can run a route/catch .... I think he's already proven a willing block and a dynamic runner in the open field hasn't he ?

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
I doubt Tebow will play TE. No one knows if he can even catch. Pats have insisted he is there to complete to be a back up QB and will not play other spots. Even if they were trying to convert him, I don't see him being able to make the switch fast enough and be capable enough to be very useful in basically 2 months.

 

Dr. Octopus

Footballguy
is there any possibility Coach B really did bring in Tebow, not as a QB but a TE option ?

IF Tebow can run a route/catch .... I think he's already proven a willing block and a dynamic runner in the open field hasn't he ?
TE is still a difficult position for college players to transition to the pro level. I'm not sure why people just think Tebow, who didn't even play the position in college can make an impact at TE this season. There's most likely free agents available now that would be better options.

 

PatsFanCT

Footballguy
is there any possibility Coach B really did bring in Tebow, not as a QB but a TE option ?

IF Tebow can run a route/catch .... I think he's already proven a willing block and a dynamic runner in the open field hasn't he ?
No, not a chance in hell.

He was brought in to be cut.

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
It helps the NE running game and kills Brady. Who's scared of that O without Gronk and Hernandez?
31 other teams.
Meh...haven't been too scared to lose to them when it counts for the past 9 years!.
As I mentioned in another thread, the last two seasons that Brady, BB, and OC McDaniels were together NE put up 589 and 557 points. The only two skilled position players that were on both teams were Brady and Welker. People thinking that the Patriots offense will turn into the sisters of the poor will be sadly mistaken. The Pats could score 125 fewer points and still remain in the Top 5 in the league in scoring.

 

Thunderlips

Footballguy
It helps the NE running game and kills Brady. Who's scared of that O without Gronk and Hernandez?
31 other teams.
Meh...haven't been too scared to lose to them when it counts for the past 9 years!.
As I mentioned in another thread, the last two seasons that Brady, BB, and OC McDaniels were together NE put up 589 and 557 points. The only two skilled position players that were on both teams were Brady and Welker. People thinking that the Patriots offense will turn into the sisters of the poor will be sadly mistaken. The Pats could score 125 fewer points and still remain in the Top 5 in the league in scoring.
That 07 "Points For" are about as valid as saying that Player A will be good this year because he was a Pro-Bowler 6 years ago.

And while that 2012 team put up some points: with no Hernandez or Welker and Gonk's situation; that's a lot of receiving talent thats gone.

If you think that they're going to be in the same ballpark as that past two BB/Brady and McD years....more power to you. But I don't think that they have a Moss, Welker,healthy Gronk or Hernandez on their roster.

 

Dr. Octopus

Footballguy
It helps the NE running game and kills Brady. Who's scared of that O without Gronk and Hernandez?
31 other teams.
Meh...haven't been too scared to lose to them when it counts for the past 9 years!.
As I mentioned in another thread, the last two seasons that Brady, BB, and OC McDaniels were together NE put up 589 and 557 points. The only two skilled position players that were on both teams were Brady and Welker. People thinking that the Patriots offense will turn into the sisters of the poor will be sadly mistaken. The Pats could score 125 fewer points and still remain in the Top 5 in the league in scoring.
While I don't think the offense will just fall apart totally, during that first incarnation the team had Randy Moss (one of the most physically gifted WRs in the league), during the second incarnation the team had Rob Gronkowski (one of the most physically gifted TEs in the league) - and both teams as you stated had Wes Welker.

If Gronk misses significant time (and I know he did last season as well) who are the playmakers in this offense? Danny Amendola is a 10 ypc WR and perhaps he replaces Welker, but I do have doubts about that.

Brady is still Brady, but the offense could stall at times if no one is making plays for him.

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
It helps the NE running game and kills Brady. Who's scared of that O without Gronk and Hernandez?
31 other teams.
Meh...haven't been too scared to lose to them when it counts for the past 9 years!.
As I mentioned in another thread, the last two seasons that Brady, BB, and OC McDaniels were together NE put up 589 and 557 points. The only two skilled position players that were on both teams were Brady and Welker. People thinking that the Patriots offense will turn into the sisters of the poor will be sadly mistaken. The Pats could score 125 fewer points and still remain in the Top 5 in the league in scoring.
While I don't think the offense will just fall apart totally, during that first incarnation the team had Randy Moss (one of the most physically gifted WRs in the league), during the second incarnation the team had Rob Gronkowski (one of the most physically gifted TEs in the league) - and both teams as you stated had Wes Welker.

If Gronk misses significant time (and I know he did last season as well) who are the playmakers in this offense? Danny Amendola is a 10 ypc WR and perhaps he replaces Welker, but I do have doubts about that.

Brady is still Brady, but the offense could stall at times if no one is making plays for him.
Again, I don't understand why Welker is viewed EXCLUSIVELY as Welker in New England, yet Amendola is evaluated solely on his time with the Rams. Very few people bother to look at what Welker did IN MIAMI or what Amendola will do IN NEW ENGLAND. Welker would have likely been a 9 ypc guy in STL also, given Bradford and the limited offensive resources in STL and with no Brady. But let people see what they want to see . . .

 

PhantomJB

Footballguy
It helps the NE running game and kills Brady. Who's scared of that O without Gronk and Hernandez?
31 other teams.
Meh...haven't been too scared to lose to them when it counts for the past 9 years!.
As I mentioned in another thread, the last two seasons that Brady, BB, and OC McDaniels were together NE put up 589 and 557 points. The only two skilled position players that were on both teams were Brady and Welker. People thinking that the Patriots offense will turn into the sisters of the poor will be sadly mistaken. The Pats could score 125 fewer points and still remain in the Top 5 in the league in scoring.
While I don't think the offense will just fall apart totally, during that first incarnation the team had Randy Moss (one of the most physically gifted WRs in the league), during the second incarnation the team had Rob Gronkowski (one of the most physically gifted TEs in the league) - and both teams as you stated had Wes Welker.

If Gronk misses significant time (and I know he did last season as well) who are the playmakers in this offense? Danny Amendola is a 10 ypc WR and perhaps he replaces Welker, but I do have doubts about that.

Brady is still Brady, but the offense could stall at times if no one is making plays for him.
Again, I don't understand why Welker is viewed EXCLUSIVELY as Welker in New England, yet Amendola is evaluated solely on his time with the Rams. Very few people bother to look at what Welker did IN MIAMI or what Amendola will do IN NEW ENGLAND. Welker would have likely been a 9 ypc guy in STL also, given Bradford and the limited offensive resources in STL and with no Brady. But let people see what they want to see . . .
I'm in the "give Brady and McDaniels the benefit of the doubt" camp to manufacture another FF star.

Let's not forget that through the first 12 games of 2010 the mighty Kyle Orton playing for McD in Denver was on pace for nearly 4,500 yards throwing to the Holy Trinity of Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney and Eddie Royal. Those three accounted for 77% of non-RB catches that year and made Lloyd one of the FA pickups of the year.

ETA: 2010 was also D.Thomas and E.Decker's rookie year which may give some validity to an earlier post that said it would be tough for rooks to pick up the complex McDaniels offense.

 
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ummich10

Footballguy
Anyone think that Lavelle Hawkins might be able to do something? I know its a long shot, and he doesn't have a great history, but they did give him more guaranteed money than some of the other guys they brought in (counts for at least a little something I hope) and he's a veteran but only 26. Maybe he clicks with Brady and becomes worthwhile of at least a roster spot on someone fantasy squad. I'm of the opinion that while he certainly has had underwhelming moments, the Titans have not exactly been offensive geniuses over the past 5 years. Coaching changes, scheme changes, and guys like Vince Young, Kerry Collins, Rusty someone (can't remember his name) at QB are not exactly good conditions for a young WR to mature.

 

Thunderlips

Footballguy
It helps the NE running game and kills Brady. Who's scared of that O without Gronk and Hernandez?
31 other teams.
Meh...haven't been too scared to lose to them when it counts for the past 9 years!.
As I mentioned in another thread, the last two seasons that Brady, BB, and OC McDaniels were together NE put up 589 and 557 points. The only two skilled position players that were on both teams were Brady and Welker. People thinking that the Patriots offense will turn into the sisters of the poor will be sadly mistaken. The Pats could score 125 fewer points and still remain in the Top 5 in the league in scoring.
While I don't think the offense will just fall apart totally, during that first incarnation the team had Randy Moss (one of the most physically gifted WRs in the league), during the second incarnation the team had Rob Gronkowski (one of the most physically gifted TEs in the league) - and both teams as you stated had Wes Welker.

If Gronk misses significant time (and I know he did last season as well) who are the playmakers in this offense? Danny Amendola is a 10 ypc WR and perhaps he replaces Welker, but I do have doubts about that.

Brady is still Brady, but the offense could stall at times if no one is making plays for him.
Again, I don't understand why Welker is viewed EXCLUSIVELY as Welker in New England, yet Amendola is evaluated solely on his time with the Rams. Very few people bother to look at what Welker did IN MIAMI or what Amendola will do IN NEW ENGLAND. Welker would have likely been a 9 ypc guy in STL also, given Bradford and the limited offensive resources in STL and with no Brady. But let people see what they want to see . . .
How can I look at what Amendola did in NEW ENGLAND when he hasn't done it yet?

If my aunt had nuts she'd be my uncle......I don't think we can get too much into "if this guy was here...he'd do this" or "this guy did this here...so he'll do this there" . Football isn't that simple. You might be right in the sense that Amendola "might" be able to equal what Welker did. Where are they going to get Randy Moss's, Aaron Hernandez and (presumably) Gronkowski's replacements? Nevermind the idea that midnight always strikes for Cinderella; Brady's at the end of his career...not the beginning; and this is probably his weakest supporting staff on O in a number of years.

I hate NE...so I'm hoping your not right. But if you are....good job. I'm not seeing it.

 

Dr. Octopus

Footballguy
It helps the NE running game and kills Brady. Who's scared of that O without Gronk and Hernandez?
31 other teams.
Meh...haven't been too scared to lose to them when it counts for the past 9 years!.
As I mentioned in another thread, the last two seasons that Brady, BB, and OC McDaniels were together NE put up 589 and 557 points. The only two skilled position players that were on both teams were Brady and Welker. People thinking that the Patriots offense will turn into the sisters of the poor will be sadly mistaken. The Pats could score 125 fewer points and still remain in the Top 5 in the league in scoring.
While I don't think the offense will just fall apart totally, during that first incarnation the team had Randy Moss (one of the most physically gifted WRs in the league), during the second incarnation the team had Rob Gronkowski (one of the most physically gifted TEs in the league) - and both teams as you stated had Wes Welker.

If Gronk misses significant time (and I know he did last season as well) who are the playmakers in this offense? Danny Amendola is a 10 ypc WR and perhaps he replaces Welker, but I do have doubts about that.

Brady is still Brady, but the offense could stall at times if no one is making plays for him.
Again, I don't understand why Welker is viewed EXCLUSIVELY as Welker in New England, yet Amendola is evaluated solely on his time with the Rams. Very few people bother to look at what Welker did IN MIAMI or what Amendola will do IN NEW ENGLAND. Welker would have likely been a 9 ypc guy in STL also, given Bradford and the limited offensive resources in STL and with no Brady. But let people see what they want to see . . .
Look at what Welker did in Miami, as an undrafted young wide receiver that saw limited playing time with Cleo Lemmon and Joey Harrington at QB? Why?

I've watched both play. I don't think Amendola is as good as Welker. I don't think he's as quick or as strong. I don't see anything Amendola does better in fact. He's a decent player that can get open and is sure handed. I am sure that he's good enough to catch a bunch of balls in New England - he's not a playmaker though. If Welker was still in New England without any outside threats at WR and with Gronk and Hernandez not playing, I'd feel like he'd have a tougher time as well.

Would Welker have been better in the Rams offense than Amendola was. I'd say, yes - but we'll never really know.

Would I expect Amendola to put up bigger numbers in New England than in St. Louis? Sure, but I also don't see how that changes anything I said in the post you quoted.

Who are the playmakers in the Pats offense next season. Once again, Brady is a great QB and the offense will be fine. I never said otherwise - but my expectations will be the it will be more conservative by nature.

 

Beerguzzler

Footballguy
Edelman is the clear choice. My only question with him is health. If he's active, he's starting and having a very productive day. He's my biggest upside pick this season.

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
It helps the NE running game and kills Brady. Who's scared of that O without Gronk and Hernandez?
31 other teams.
Meh...haven't been too scared to lose to them when it counts for the past 9 years!.
As I mentioned in another thread, the last two seasons that Brady, BB, and OC McDaniels were together NE put up 589 and 557 points. The only two skilled position players that were on both teams were Brady and Welker. People thinking that the Patriots offense will turn into the sisters of the poor will be sadly mistaken. The Pats could score 125 fewer points and still remain in the Top 5 in the league in scoring.
While I don't think the offense will just fall apart totally, during that first incarnation the team had Randy Moss (one of the most physically gifted WRs in the league), during the second incarnation the team had Rob Gronkowski (one of the most physically gifted TEs in the league) - and both teams as you stated had Wes Welker.

If Gronk misses significant time (and I know he did last season as well) who are the playmakers in this offense? Danny Amendola is a 10 ypc WR and perhaps he replaces Welker, but I do have doubts about that.

Brady is still Brady, but the offense could stall at times if no one is making plays for him.
Again, I don't understand why Welker is viewed EXCLUSIVELY as Welker in New England, yet Amendola is evaluated solely on his time with the Rams. Very few people bother to look at what Welker did IN MIAMI or what Amendola will do IN NEW ENGLAND. Welker would have likely been a 9 ypc guy in STL also, given Bradford and the limited offensive resources in STL and with no Brady. But let people see what they want to see . . .
Look at what Welker did in Miami, as an undrafted young wide receiver that saw limited playing time with Cleo Lemmon and Joey Harrington at QB? Why?

I've watched both play. I don't think Amendola is as good as Welker. I don't think he's as quick or as strong. I don't see anything Amendola does better in fact. He's a decent player that can get open and is sure handed. I am sure that he's good enough to catch a bunch of balls in New England - he's not a playmaker though. If Welker was still in New England without any outside threats at WR and with Gronk and Hernandez not playing, I'd feel like he'd have a tougher time as well.

Would Welker have been better in the Rams offense than Amendola was. I'd say, yes - but we'll never really know.

Would I expect Amendola to put up bigger numbers in New England than in St. Louis? Sure, but I also don't see how that changes anything I said in the post you quoted.

Who are the playmakers in the Pats offense next season. Once again, Brady is a great QB and the offense will be fine. I never said otherwise - but my expectations will be the it will be more conservative by nature.
My point was that given the Pats system, Amendola should be more than sufficient skill wise to put up decent numbers. Troy Brown with Brady put up 90-100 catches playing out of the slot. If Amendola gets the 188 targets that Welker saw each of the past two seasons, he will also have 100+ catches on the season.

The only really true freak of nature and superstar that NE had was Moss. But the offense rolled on and scored 500+ points 3 years in a row with out him. Yes, Welker put up great numbers and had some qualities that might be hard to replace, but he made a name for himself on the volume of passes thrown his way. Put another way, I don't think the difference between Amendola and Welker will be so noteworthy that people will have any right to panic. Gronk is a concern right now, but I don't see any reason why he should be able to play for at least half to 3/4 of the season. Hernandez would be a loss (assuming he won't play at all), but he's struggled to stay on the field in his own right.

Beyond Moss and Welker, who else have the Pats rolled out at WR that was really noteworthy? Here are all the other WRs that caught passes over the past 5 years: Deion Branch, Brandon Lloyd, Julian Edelman, Jabar Gaffney, Sam Aiken, Brandon Tate, Chad Johnson, Taylor Price, Isaiah Stanback, Tiquan Underwood, Matt Slater, Donte Stallworth, and Kelley Washington. None of those guys really struck fear in the hearts of defenses.

IMO, things may not go as smoothly and Brady may be less efficient. He may have to throw more passes to get the same desired result. Maybe they will throw more to backs out of the backfield. Maybe they will use more dink and dunk and bubble screens. Maybe they will have to run more. But overall, I don't see the offense crumbling, nor do I see Brady's numbers falling off a cliff. Maybe he "only produces 4000/30 instead. Again, it's still quite a while before they play any games, and a lot could change between now and then.

 

The Fantasy Chef

Footballguy
It helps the NE running game and kills Brady. Who's scared of that O without Gronk and Hernandez?
31 other teams.
Meh...haven't been too scared to lose to them when it counts for the past 9 years!.
As I mentioned in another thread, the last two seasons that Brady, BB, and OC McDaniels were together NE put up 589 and 557 points. The only two skilled position players that were on both teams were Brady and Welker. People thinking that the Patriots offense will turn into the sisters of the poor will be sadly mistaken. The Pats could score 125 fewer points and still remain in the Top 5 in the league in scoring.
While I don't think the offense will just fall apart totally, during that first incarnation the team had Randy Moss (one of the most physically gifted WRs in the league), during the second incarnation the team had Rob Gronkowski (one of the most physically gifted TEs in the league) - and both teams as you stated had Wes Welker.

If Gronk misses significant time (and I know he did last season as well) who are the playmakers in this offense? Danny Amendola is a 10 ypc WR and perhaps he replaces Welker, but I do have doubts about that.

Brady is still Brady, but the offense could stall at times if no one is making plays for him.
Again, I don't understand why Welker is viewed EXCLUSIVELY as Welker in New England, yet Amendola is evaluated solely on his time with the Rams. Very few people bother to look at what Welker did IN MIAMI or what Amendola will do IN NEW ENGLAND. Welker would have likely been a 9 ypc guy in STL also, given Bradford and the limited offensive resources in STL and with no Brady. But let people see what they want to see . . .
Look at what Welker did in Miami, as an undrafted young wide receiver that saw limited playing time with Cleo Lemmon and Joey Harrington at QB? Why?

I've watched both play. I don't think Amendola is as good as Welker. I don't think he's as quick or as strong. I don't see anything Amendola does better in fact. He's a decent player that can get open and is sure handed. I am sure that he's good enough to catch a bunch of balls in New England - he's not a playmaker though. If Welker was still in New England without any outside threats at WR and with Gronk and Hernandez not playing, I'd feel like he'd have a tougher time as well.

Would Welker have been better in the Rams offense than Amendola was. I'd say, yes - but we'll never really know.

Would I expect Amendola to put up bigger numbers in New England than in St. Louis? Sure, but I also don't see how that changes anything I said in the post you quoted.

Who are the playmakers in the Pats offense next season. Once again, Brady is a great QB and the offense will be fine. I never said otherwise - but my expectations will be the it will be more conservative by nature.
My point was that given the Pats system, Amendola should be more than sufficient skill wise to put up decent numbers. Troy Brown with Brady put up 90-100 catches playing out of the slot. If Amendola gets the 188 targets that Welker saw each of the past two seasons, he will also have 100+ catches on the season.The only really true freak of nature and superstar that NE had was Moss. But the offense rolled on and scored 500+ points 3 years in a row with out him. Yes, Welker put up great numbers and had some qualities that might be hard to replace, but he made a name for himself on the volume of passes thrown his way. Put another way, I don't think the difference between Amendola and Welker will be so noteworthy that people will have any right to panic. Gronk is a concern right now, but I don't see any reason why he should be able to play for at least half to 3/4 of the season. Hernandez would be a loss (assuming he won't play at all), but he's struggled to stay on the field in his own right.

Beyond Moss and Welker, who else have the Pats rolled out at WR that was really noteworthy? Here are all the other WRs that caught passes over the past 5 years: Deion Branch, Brandon Lloyd, Julian Edelman, Jabar Gaffney, Sam Aiken, Brandon Tate, Chad Johnson, Taylor Price, Isaiah Stanback, Tiquan Underwood, Matt Slater, Donte Stallworth, and Kelley Washington. None of those guys really struck fear in the hearts of defenses.

IMO, things may not go as smoothly and Brady may be less efficient. He may have to throw more passes to get the same desired result. Maybe they will throw more to backs out of the backfield. Maybe they will use more dink and dunk and bubble screens. Maybe they will have to run more. But overall, I don't see the offense crumbling, nor do I see Brady's numbers falling off a cliff. Maybe he "only produces 4000/30 instead. Again, it's still quite a while before they play any games, and a lot could change between now and then.
Brady is Brady we just want to know what wrs are going to benefit from this te mess

 

ShaHBucks

Footballguy
IF We find out very soon that Hernandez is a loss for this season (soon enough for the Patriots to enter training camp and start building a planned reaction of how thye will use their personnel this season), then there is a player on that roster right now that I think will come out of nowhere and be a fantasy producer this year. If those things do not happen, then the entire opportunity is off the table and the player is perhaps not even worth rostering.

The player is Mark Harrison. Going back to how the Patriots always seem to add people to their roster that can do multiple things and, more importantly, are often trained to do multiple things, Harrison is a very intriguing player to me because physically he can emulate a lot of the things that the Patriots have liked to do with their primary formation. They can reatin the Welker role using Amendola and Edelman. They can maintain the outside role with Dobson, Jenkins, etc. They will have gronk at some point and the RBs are in place. What they can do with Harrison is basically convert him to a joker TE. Harrison has the physical size and speed and, maybe more importantly, he can block. He also has the fluidity to play that odd seldom used role where the Patriots line up and move Hernandez in and out of blocking alignments, split him out, drag him in, etc.

Like I said, this almost entirely hinges on the prospect of Hernandez's season and the timing of it but given the low, low price of what Harrison may be had for, he is a guy I have or will add to every league I have unless the news on Hernandez suddenly shifts in his favor.
Harrison + another 10 pounds would agruably be the #2-3 ranked TE in the class off of his body/athleticism alone. Good call
 

werdnoynek

Footballguy
IF We find out very soon that Hernandez is a loss for this season (soon enough for the Patriots to enter training camp and start building a planned reaction of how thye will use their personnel this season), then there is a player on that roster right now that I think will come out of nowhere and be a fantasy producer this year. If those things do not happen, then the entire opportunity is off the table and the player is perhaps not even worth rostering.

The player is Mark Harrison. Going back to how the Patriots always seem to add people to their roster that can do multiple things and, more importantly, are often trained to do multiple things, Harrison is a very intriguing player to me because physically he can emulate a lot of the things that the Patriots have liked to do with their primary formation. They can reatin the Welker role using Amendola and Edelman. They can maintain the outside role with Dobson, Jenkins, etc. They will have gronk at some point and the RBs are in place. What they can do with Harrison is basically convert him to a joker TE. Harrison has the physical size and speed and, maybe more importantly, he can block. He also has the fluidity to play that odd seldom used role where the Patriots line up and move Hernandez in and out of blocking alignments, split him out, drag him in, etc.

Like I said, this almost entirely hinges on the prospect of Hernandez's season and the timing of it but given the low, low price of what Harrison may be had for, he is a guy I have or will add to every league I have unless the news on Hernandez suddenly shifts in his favor.
:yes:

 

ZWK

Footballguy
In 2010, Gronk & Hernandez were rookies (and neither topped 600 yards), Welker was coming off an ACL injury and averaged less than 10 yards per reception (he was the team's leading receiver with 86/848/7), and Moss left the team after 4 weeks. But the Pats still finished as the #1 offense and went 14-2, and Brady won the MVP and was the #1 fantasy QB. I think it's a pretty safe bet that the offense will find a way.

 

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