New Mock From Scout.com (1 Viewer)

[Chaos Commish]

NFL Mock Draft - Updated Jan. 19, By Pete Fiutak

This link won't be active for long. Pete's comments on each pick are in the link.

Here's the mock.

1. Oakland Raiders - JaMarcus Russell, QB LSU

2. Detroit Lions - Joe Thomas, OT Wisconsin

3. Cleveland Browns (coin flip with Tampa Bay for the 3rd pick) - Brady Quinn, QB Notre Dame

3. Tampa Bay (coin flip with Cleveland for the 3rd pick) - Calvin Johnson, WR Georgia Tech

5. Arizona Cardinals - Alan Branch, DT Michigan

6. Washington Redskins - Gaines Adams, DE Clemson

7. Minnesota Vikings. - Adrian Peterson, RB Oklahoma

8. Houston Texans - Marshawn Lynch, RB California

9. Miami Dolphins - Jamaal Anderson, DE Arkansas

10. Atlanta Falcons - Leon Hall, CB Michigan

11. San Francisco 49ers - Dwayne Jarrett, WR USC

12. Buffalo Bills - Amobi Okoye, DT Louisville

13. St. Louis Rams - Charles Johnson, DE Georgia

14. Carolina Panthers - LaRon Landry, S LSU

15. Pittsburgh Steelers - Adam Carriker, DE Nebraska

16. Green Bay Packers - Robert Meachem, WR Green Bay

17. Jacksonville Jaguars - Sidney Rice, WR South Carolina

18. Cincinnati Bengals - Quentin Moses, DE Georgia

19. Tennessee Titans - Tony Ugoh, OT Arkansas

20. NY Giants - Lawrence Timmons, LB Florida State

21. Denver Broncos - Darrelle Revis, CB Pitt

22. Dallas Cowboys - Ted Ginn Jr., WR Ohio State

23. Kansas City Chiefs - Levi Brown, OT Penn State

24. NY Jets - DeMarcus Tyler, DT NC State

25. New England (from Seattle) - Daymeion Hughes, CB California

26. Philadelphia Eagles - Jarvis Moss, DE Florida

27. Baltimore Ravens - LaMarr Woodley, DE/LB Michigan

28. San Diego Chargers - Dwayne Bowe, WR LSU

29. New England Patriots* - Reggie Nelson, S Florida

30. New Orleans Saints* - Patrick Willis, LB Ole Miss

31. Indianapolis Colts* - Quinn Pitcock, DT Ohio State

32. Chicago Bears* - Marshal Yanda, OT Iowa

*Depending on how the playoffs shake out

Fiutak's strength is his knowledge of the collegians. So, I read him from a player value perspective knowing he may mismatch players and NFL teams. I think that could be true of Lynch going to Houston. Lynch is not a cut and go runner. He's a great back and could easily take to Kubiak's coaching, but someone who creates as much as Lynch probably doesn't match a zone blocking team, though I agree with the very high value of Lynch in the top 10. Hall and Okoye getting big respect from another quality source. I probably have these two wrong. I kid about changing my mind easily when convinced I should listen. I think I will be stubborn on these two. They should fall.

Yet another guy whose primary sources are NCAA based sees Charles Johnson very very high. I cannot agree more. I'm working on a new mock of my own and I have Johnson higher than Fiutak's 13. It's also nice to see Moses in the top 20. That is where he belongs. Reggie Nelson barely makes the first round. That is another thing I have been suggesting, but lately I am softening up to the idea he may go pretty early.

Six first round WRs. It is very possible. So many people reading mocks respond with, "We won't take a WR." Five or six teams will, so you look at all 32 and try to place them.

 

[wannabee]

Why would the Vikes take APeterson when they have Chester?

 

[H.K.]

7. Minnesota Vikings. - Adrian Peterson, RB Oklahoma

I don't know if I have seen this scenario yet, but it makes sense. Considering the Vikes new offense, they definitely need a quality RB. Taylor was OK, but didn't set the world on fire....I like this pick.

 

[Finatic]

Miami needs playmakers and now that Cam is on board it will be interesting to see if they pass on a talented WR like a Jarrett.........

 

[wannabee]

Why would the Vikes take APeterson when they have Chester?

Thanks, Chaos, for posting this. I was not questioning you on this pick, just looking for a "why".

 

[Chaos Commish]

Why would the Vikes take APeterson when they have Chester?

Per Fiutak from the link:

The offense needs as many weapons as possible. While there's a glut of decent players in the Viking backfield, there's no superstar. Peterson is a superstar.

I agree with this. Every team that passes on Peterson will regret it with the possible exception of whoever takes Calvin.

 

[H.K.]

Why would the Vikes take APeterson when they have Chester?

Per Fiutak from the link:

The offense needs as many weapons as possible. While there's a glut of decent players in the Viking backfield, there's no superstar. Peterson is a superstar.

I agree with this. Every team that passes on Peterson will regret it with the possible exception of whoever takes Calvin.

I wonder if Cleveland will consider Peterson, too. Its not a stretch to see them take an RB with their current roster. Not sure about Droughns' cap numbers though...

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I wouldnt be shocked to see the vikes take AD, they would get their money's worth from chester if they got last year and this year to take some of the load off of AD.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Why would the Vikes take APeterson when they have Chester?

Per Fiutak from the link:

The offense needs as many weapons as possible. While there's a glut of decent players in the Viking backfield, there's no superstar. Peterson is a superstar.

I agree with this. Every team that passes on Peterson will regret it with the possible exception of whoever takes Calvin.

I wonder if Cleveland will consider Peterson, too. Its not a stretch to see them take an RB with their current roster. Not sure about Droughns' cap numbers though...

Droughns cap hit would be less than Taylor's.

 

[Rovers]

Herm Edwards going O line in the first round? Chiefs fans can only hope he's that smart. To me, Levi Brown would be a no brainer, but we're talkin Herm Edwards here. He will use the clandestine, compromising pictures of Carl Peterson to extort him into going defense.

Very hard to imagine the Jets, the new all-american boy drafting team to go with a guy like Tyler, with his issues. But, I see how this is better used as a talent mock, not an NFL draft mock. As you hinted, I don't see this guy as being in tune with the tendencies of how NFL teams will pick. Classic "the Broncos MUST replace Williams" thinking. Not much NFL insight, IMO. This is more like Kyper's "talent" rankings.

 

[wannabee]

Why would the Vikes take APeterson when they have Chester?

Per Fiutak from the link:

The offense needs as many weapons as possible. While there's a glut of decent players in the Viking backfield, there's no superstar. Peterson is a superstar.

I agree with this. Every team that passes on Peterson will regret it with the possible exception of whoever takes Calvin.

I wonder if Cleveland will consider Peterson, too. Its not a stretch to see them take an RB with their current roster. Not sure about Droughns' cap numbers though...

Do not get me wrong, I love AD and his prospects for the NFL. But, I see the Vikes as having several holes to fill as it is. That is why I question the pick. Do I think AD would succeed in Minny? yes.

 

[H.K.]

Do not get me wromg, I love AD and his prospects for the NFL. But, I see the Vikes as having several holes to fill as it is. That is why I question the pick. Do I think AD would succeed in Minny? yes.

He would be a good fit for their scheme. I just wonder if Quinn is really the guy for Cleveland...I expect his stock to drop. Didn't he have some poor showings against top competition? Peterson to Cleveland in lieu of Quinn seems possible.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Why would the Vikes take APeterson when they have Chester?

Per Fiutak from the link:

The offense needs as many weapons as possible. While there's a glut of decent players in the Viking backfield, there's no superstar. Peterson is a superstar.

I agree with this. Every team that passes on Peterson will regret it with the possible exception of whoever takes Calvin.

I wonder if Cleveland will consider Peterson, too. Its not a stretch to see them take an RB with their current roster. Not sure about Droughns' cap numbers though...

Do not get me wromg, I love AD and his prospects for the NFL. But, I see the Vikes as having several holes to fill as it is. That is why I question the pick. Do I think AD would succeed in Minny? yes.

I think we all make the mistake sometimes of wanting what a team should get instead of who a team should get. Maybe you want a great pass rusher or great DB for the Vikes. That's what you want. Now look at the DEs and DBs and name one you want more than Peterson. There isn't a DE or DB in this draft to want more than Peterson. He is who you should want.

 

[wannabee]

Why would the Vikes take APeterson when they have Chester?

Per Fiutak from the link:

The offense needs as many weapons as possible. While there's a glut of decent players in the Viking backfield, there's no superstar. Peterson is a superstar.

I agree with this. Every team that passes on Peterson will regret it with the possible exception of whoever takes Calvin.

I wonder if Cleveland will consider Peterson, too. Its not a stretch to see them take an RB with their current roster. Not sure about Droughns' cap numbers though...

Do not get me wromg, I love AD and his prospects for the NFL. But, I see the Vikes as having several holes to fill as it is. That is why I question the pick. Do I think AD would succeed in Minny? yes.

I think we all make the mistake sometimes of wanting what a team should get instead of who a team should get. Maybe you want a great pass rusher or great DB for the Vikes. That's what you want. Now look at the DEs and DBs and name one you want more than Peterson. There isn't a DE or DB in this draft to want more than Peterson. He is who you should want.

I am not a Vikes fan, but anyone who has watched them this year knows there are a lot of holes to fill. There are a few positions that could use the upgrade of an elite talent from theat pick. By this logic, you think Peterson should be 1.01 or 1.02. I do not disagree with it, just saying that the Vikes have a lot of holes ... many more than most realize.

 

[Saints-Man]

My only slight beef with this is that I think the Ginn(OSU) is a better WR than Rice(SCaro).

I think QB Russell(LSU) is a perfect fit for the Raiders, even though they have a lot of holes to fill on the offense.

 

[jeter23]

Why would the Vikes take APeterson when they have Chester?

Per Fiutak from the link:

The offense needs as many weapons as possible. While there's a glut of decent players in the Viking backfield, there's no superstar. Peterson is a superstar.

I agree with this. Every team that passes on Peterson will regret it with the possible exception of whoever takes Calvin.

I wonder if Cleveland will consider Peterson, too. Its not a stretch to see them take an RB with their current roster. Not sure about Droughns' cap numbers though...

Do not get me wromg, I love AD and his prospects for the NFL. But, I see the Vikes as having several holes to fill as it is. That is why I question the pick. Do I think AD would succeed in Minny? yes.

I think we all make the mistake sometimes of wanting what a team should get instead of who a team should get. Maybe you want a great pass rusher or great DB for the Vikes. That's what you want. Now look at the DEs and DBs and name one you want more than Peterson. There isn't a DE or DB in this draft to want more than Peterson. He is who you should want.

I think WR is a need and they would want someone like Jarrett over AD.

 

[Chaos Commish]

By this logic, you think Peterson should be 1.01 or 1.02. I do not disagree with it, just saying that the Vikes have a lot of holes ... many more than most realize.

Correct. Peterson and Johnson have been 1.01 in my mocks. And I agree about the Vikes holes. The DEs, LBs, and DBs are all problematic. The WRs are bad. The OL isn't what it was supposed to be. Still, if Peterson falls, you take him. He will improve the team more than any other player at that point, imo.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Basically I just want to say:

What Chaos Commish said. All of it.

 

[BGP]

Do not get me wromg, I love AD and his prospects for the NFL. But, I see the Vikes as having several holes to fill as it is. That is why I question the pick. Do I think AD would succeed in Minny? yes.

He would be a good fit for their scheme. I just wonder if Quinn is really the guy for Cleveland...I expect his stock to drop. Didn't he have some poor showings against top competition? Peterson to Cleveland in lieu of Quinn seems possible.

Holy crap if Savage drafts Peterson or Quinn with that pick he should be fired on the spot.The NFL is NOT fantasy football - its about winning with the offensive and defensive lines.Savage is in year 3 and has yet to select OL high in the draft despite the crisis at the position. If he can't pull SOMETHING off in 3 years to fix it, he should be canned.And no, if we draft OL high in 2007 and they bust, it doesn't mean we go right back to drafting RB/WR/QB high again for another 20 years. We should draft OL/DL high for 20 years (or until they become elite units) then come talk to me if it fails.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

I keep seeing mocks with the Broncos taking a CB in the first round, and I just don't see it happening. Foxworth is rock solid, and Paymah came on enough last year to be a solid candidate for the Nickel. I have no doubt they'll draft a CB, but I don't believe it will be before round 3. They needs on the defensive line and at saftey are more pressing. It would be an awkward position for any CB they draft in the first round; he'd be playing under the weight of being the guy who was brought in to replace Darrent. That's a tough way to begin a career.

 

[tkrull]

I have a hard time seeing Carriker as a 3-4 DE in Pittsburgh.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

I have a hard time seeing Carriker as a 3-4 DE in Pittsburgh.

Really? He's projected by most as a better fit for the 3-4 because of his size (6'6", 290-300lbs). He'll be good in either 3-4 or 4-3, he's just not going to be a big sack total DE. He'll definitely help control the line of scrimmage for whoever he goes to though. That weight isn't unnatural for him; he's just a big, strong guy.

 

[H.K.]

Do not get me wromg, I love AD and his prospects for the NFL. But, I see the Vikes as having several holes to fill as it is. That is why I question the pick. Do I think AD would succeed in Minny? yes.

He would be a good fit for their scheme. I just wonder if Quinn is really the guy for Cleveland...I expect his stock to drop. Didn't he have some poor showings against top competition? Peterson to Cleveland in lieu of Quinn seems possible.

Holy crap if Savage drafts Peterson or Quinn with that pick he should be fired on the spot.The NFL is NOT fantasy football - its about winning with the offensive and defensive lines.Savage is in year 3 and has yet to select OL high in the draft despite the crisis at the position. If he can't pull SOMETHING off in 3 years to fix it, he should be canned.And no, if we draft OL high in 2007 and they bust, it doesn't mean we go right back to drafting RB/WR/QB high again for another 20 years. We should draft OL/DL high for 20 years (or until they become elite units) then come talk to me if it fails.

Houston passed on Reggie Bush and went DL. How did that work for them? Special talent at the skill positions can make the OL look better. The purpose of the thread is to discuss logical draft selections, Cleveland taking Peterson may not be what you want to happen, but there is logic to the selection.

 

[coolnerd]

While it looks like a game of semantics, the draft should be about the acquisition of talent more than the resolution of immediate needs. Sometimes these two mesh perfect, the best player fills your highest need, but most of the time an organization has to make a choice.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

With the WR class being so deep this season, I think the Vikings would be smart taking a WR in the 2nd round instead of the first. Getting AD in the first and Rice, Meacham or Steve Smith in round two would be VERY smart!!

 

[Colin Dowling]

Nelson and Willis going that low? Brown sliding? I disagree....

 

[nygiants56]

Why would the Vikes take APeterson when they have Chester?

Per Fiutak from the link:

The offense needs as many weapons as possible. While there's a glut of decent players in the Viking backfield, there's no superstar. Peterson is a superstar.

I agree with this. Every team that passes on Peterson will regret it with the possible exception of whoever takes Calvin.

I wouldn't bank on the Giants taking a LB if Ginn, Jr is still sitting there..They need a WR in a BAD way!Toomer is washed up, Plax is a problem-child primadonna, and not a single WR left on this team is worth the salary they're being paid.they need playmakers on offense.They do need defenders, but, the most glaring need is in the secondary, not at LB..they have a lot of money wrapped up in Arrington and Pierce, so I'm not so sure they'll go for yet another LB..

 

[cws3030]

this is def. one of the better mock's i've seen so far this year

 

[PahtyTom]

If New England gets Nelson at pick 29 I'll be exstatic. He reminds me of Ed Reed.

 

[Capella]

Is it generally agreed that if the Bucs want Calvin Johnson, they'll get him? I can't see any of the 3 teams ahead of them taking him.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

ADP in Minnesota = fantasy wise.

As for those saying it won't happen, every year we hear people saying how x, y, and z are bigger needs and every year we see teams using their first round pick on players at other positions. It's funny really, we always see people new to fantasy football asking about whether they should go RB-RB-WR in the first 3 rounds of their FF draft or RB-WR-RB etc and we always tell them you can't go into it with that set in stone and have to be willing to take what the draft gives you. So why do people find it so difficult to believe that teams do the same in the NFL draft?

 

[Chaos Commish]

Is it generally agreed that if the Bucs want Calvin Johnson, they'll get him? I can't see any of the 3 teams ahead of them taking him.

Calvin has been projected to Oakland, Detroit and Cleveland all with some regularity. Right now, I would say there is nothing secure about the Bucs chances of getting him.

 

[noohpyt]

Do not get me wromg, I love AD and his prospects for the NFL. But, I see the Vikes as having several holes to fill as it is. That is why I question the pick. Do I think AD would succeed in Minny? yes.

He would be a good fit for their scheme. I just wonder if Quinn is really the guy for Cleveland...I expect his stock to drop. Didn't he have some poor showings against top competition? Peterson to Cleveland in lieu of Quinn seems possible.

Holy crap if Savage drafts Peterson or Quinn with that pick he should be fired on the spot.The NFL is NOT fantasy football - its about winning with the offensive and defensive lines.Savage is in year 3 and has yet to select OL high in the draft despite the crisis at the position. If he can't pull SOMETHING off in 3 years to fix it, he should be canned.And no, if we draft OL high in 2007 and they bust, it doesn't mean we go right back to drafting RB/WR/QB high again for another 20 years. We should draft OL/DL high for 20 years (or until they become elite units) then come talk to me if it fails.

Houston passed on Reggie Bush and went DL. How did that work for them? Special talent at the skill positions can make the OL look better. The purpose of the thread is to discuss logical draft selections, Cleveland taking Peterson may not be what you want to happen, but there is logic to the selection.

Yeh Houston passed on Bush and took M. Williams but ended up saving face by drafting D. Ryans with there next pick as this kid is gonna be a great one for many many years..

 

[Capella]

Is it generally agreed that if the Bucs want Calvin Johnson, they'll get him? I can't see any of the 3 teams ahead of them taking him.

Calvin has been projected to Oakland, Detroit and Cleveland all with some regularity. Right now, I would say there is nothing secure about the Bucs chances of getting him.

Cleveland? With Edwards and the tight end already? Seems like they're the least likely.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Is it generally agreed that if the Bucs want Calvin Johnson, they'll get him? I can't see any of the 3 teams ahead of them taking him.

Calvin has been projected to Oakland, Detroit and Cleveland all with some regularity. Right now, I would say there is nothing secure about the Bucs chances of getting him.

Cleveland? With Edwards and the tight end already? Seems like they're the least likely.

well, they might not want a QB either with Frye/Anderson in place.if they don't go QB and Joe Thomas isn't there, Calvin seems like a reasonable choice. But, RB would definitely make more sense for them.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Is it generally agreed that if the Bucs want Calvin Johnson, they'll get him? I can't see any of the 3 teams ahead of them taking him.

Calvin has been projected to Oakland, Detroit and Cleveland all with some regularity. Right now, I would say there is nothing secure about the Bucs chances of getting him.

Cleveland? With Edwards and the tight end already? Seems like they're the least likely.

I bet people kept saying that about Det. taking another WR every year too.

 

[H.K.]

Yeh Houston passed on Bush and took M. Williams but ended up saving face by drafting D. Ryans with there next pick as this kid is gonna be a great one for many many years..

They could have had Bush and Ryans. That's my point. BPA is often used because it works. Saints had Deuce at RB, and despite his injury, they still had decent RB production without him. It wasn't like Bush filled a huge need for them, but he has big play ability which is rare, and can change a game if he is used correctly. Teams often hurt themselves by drafting based on "need" because they are passing on more talented players in other areas.

 

[Rovers]

Yeh Houston passed on Bush and took M. Williams but ended up saving face by drafting D. Ryans with there next pick as this kid is gonna be a great one for many many years..

They could have had Bush and Ryans. That's my point. BPA is often used because it works. Saints had Deuce at RB, and despite his injury, they still had decent RB production without him. It wasn't like Bush filled a huge need for them, but he has big play ability which is rare, and can change a game if he is used correctly. Teams often hurt themselves by drafting based on "need" because they are passing on more talented players in other areas.

And sometimes need dictates what players should be taken as well, like the Jets last year taking Ferguson and Mangold. I didn't think Ferguson was the BaP at 4 last year, but the Jets had almost no offensive line to put on the field at all. Look at the impact players they passed over to take D'Brick. Actially, I didn't like the pick, but it's hard to argue against.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Yeh Houston passed on Bush and took M. Williams but ended up saving face by drafting D. Ryans with there next pick as this kid is gonna be a great one for many many years..

They could have had Bush and Ryans. That's my point. BPA is often used because it works. Saints had Deuce at RB, and despite his injury, they still had decent RB production without him. It wasn't like Bush filled a huge need for them, but he has big play ability which is rare, and can change a game if he is used correctly. Teams often hurt themselves by drafting based on "need" because they are passing on more talented players in other areas.

And sometimes need dictates what players should be taken as well, like the Jets last year taking Ferguson and Mangold. I didn't think Ferguson was the BaP at 4 last year, but the Jets had almost no offensive line to put on the field at all. Look at the impact players they passed over to take D'Brick. Actially, I didn't like the pick, but it's hard to argue against.

Ferguson was widely regarded as the best available player at #4. Some thought him higher, and from what I recall, only Leinart was regularly listed above him. The Jet's met need and value with that one. How do you think he played for a rookie? From what I saw I think the future is very bright.

 

[H.K.]

And sometimes need dictates what players should be taken as well, like the Jets last year taking Ferguson and Mangold. I didn't think Ferguson was the BaP at 4 last year, but the Jets had almost no offensive line to put on the field at all. Look at the impact players they passed over to take D'Brick. Actially, I didn't like the pick, but it's hard to argue against.

Agreed, the draft is essentially need based, but the uniquely talented players (very rare), should not be passed over in place of need. Houston made that mistake.

 

[Chaos Commish]

And sometimes need dictates what players should be taken as well, like the Jets last year taking Ferguson and Mangold. I didn't think Ferguson was the BaP at 4 last year, but the Jets had almost no offensive line to put on the field at all. Look at the impact players they passed over to take D'Brick. Actially, I didn't like the pick, but it's hard to argue against.

Agreed, the draft is essentially need based, but the uniquely talented players (very rare), should not be passed over in place of need. Houston made that mistake.

Not in the top half of the first round it isn't. It is all about talent at that point. It becomes more about need later. Sometimes there is a nice meeting of the two very early and that's because teams with very early picks have a lot of needs. But don't think they pass over a player they feel is better for one who fits a need, not early in the draft anyway. If they do, they sure never admit it and actual drafts don't reflect it. AT leat not obviously with pleny of room to argue either way.

 

[H.K.]

Not in the top half of the first round it isn't. It is all about talent at that point. It becomes more about need later. Sometimes there is a nice meeting of the two very early and that's because teams with very early picks have a lot of needs.

We are in violent agreement here. Specific to Houston last season, which is what led to this digression, they should have chosen Bush. It was hailed as the wrong thing to do at the time and proved to be a bad decision as the year progressed.Chaos - Who do you feel is the unique talent in this year's draft? You mentioned CJohnson & Peterson as your co-1.01's, is there anyone else you think is a special player?

 

[Chaos Commish]

Not in the top half of the first round it isn't. It is all about talent at that point. It becomes more about need later. Sometimes there is a nice meeting of the two very early and that's because teams with very early picks have a lot of needs.

We are in violent agreement here. Specific to Houston last season, which is what led to this digression, they should have chosen Bush. It was hailed as the wrong thing to do at the time and proved to be a bad decision as the year progressed.Chaos - Who do you feel is the unique talent in this year's draft? You mentioned CJohnson & Peterson as your co-1.01's, is there anyone else you think is a special player?

Good question. I would be interested in other opinions too, but you got me right. Peterson and Johnson. It has nothing to do with me being a fantasy player and them being skill guys. I think they are both exeptionally talented and capable of being the #1 players in the NFL at their respective positions. The only other players I feel that way about, and not nearly as strongly, are Darrelle Revis (CB) and LaRon Landry(S). They could both be superstars #1 at their positions in time. I don't see a player at any other position whom I could say that about.

 

[coolnerd]

Not in the top half of the first round it isn't. It is all about talent at that point. It becomes more about need later. Sometimes there is a nice meeting of the two very early and that's because teams with very early picks have a lot of needs.

We are in violent agreement here. Specific to Houston last season, which is what led to this digression, they should have chosen Bush. It was hailed as the wrong thing to do at the time and proved to be a bad decision as the year progressed.

Just to help on the Texans stuff. They had Bush and Mario William rated very closely. I found evidence of this as early as last February and basically everyone ignored it as BS. In their minds, he was as much a freak as Bush and could in theory play any of the 4 positions along the defensive line. Also, there were some behind the scenes reasons for Bush not getting drafted that involve some combination money, ego, that housing stuff in California and concerns about adjusting to be a one cut and go back. Nothing was totally clear as which was the specific straw, but something in that last 7-10 days before the draft made the Texans sour on Bush. While the public perception of Bush and Williams was miles apart, the organization thought differently and in their minds they were choosing bewteen a great offensive prosepct and great defensive prospect. It was not a need pick, in fact, the Texans had just invested FA money (weaver) and their previous two 1st eound draft picks( T. Johnson and Babin) on the DL. They needed (and still do) just about everything, but DL was not a greater need than 5 or 6 other things on that team.All that said, if you still think Williams was a need pick, he is a perfect example of why a team should NOT draft for need.

 

[H.K.]

Just to help on the Texans stuff. They had Bush and Mario William rated very closely. I found evidence of this as early as last February and basically everyone ignored it as BS. In their minds, he was as much a freak as Bush and could in theory play any of the 4 positions along the defensive line. Also, there were some behind the scenes reasons for Bush not getting drafted that involve some combination money, ego, that housing stuff in California and concerns about adjusting to be a one cut and go back. Nothing was totally clear as which was the specific straw, but something in that last 7-10 days before the draft made the Texans sour on Bush. While the public perception of Bush and Williams was miles apart, the organization thought differently and in their minds they were choosing bewteen a great offensive prosepct and great defensive prospect. It was not a need pick, in fact, the Texans had just invested FA money (weaver) and their previous two 1st eound draft picks( T. Johnson and Babin) on the DL. They needed (and still do) just about everything, but DL was not a greater need than 5 or 6 other things on that team.

I agree with you. However, I think sometimes the obvious gets overlooked in the draft due to all the over analysis. Bush was the most explosive player on the best team in the country. Williams was a great college player, but did not have nearly the impact on his team or the college season the way Bush did. Reggie was the clear cut #1 pick...and the Texans passed.I also remember the Vikings taking Williamson and thinking it was odd. Sometimes the combine and all-star stuff gets way too much influence over actual on field performance.

 

[H.K.]

Good question. I would be interested in other opinions too, but you got me right. Peterson and Johnson. It has nothing to do with me being a fantasy player and them being skill guys. I think they are both exeptionally talented and capable of being the #1 players in the NFL at their respective positions. The only other players I feel that way about, and not nearly as strongly, are Darrelle Revis (CB) and LaRon Landry(S). They could both be superstars #1 at their positions in time. I don't see a player at any other position whom I could say that about.

How about Russell at QB? He could be a pretty rare player at the QB position. He probably intriques me more than anyone else.

 

[coolnerd]

Just to help on the Texans stuff. They had Bush and Mario William rated very closely. I found evidence of this as early as last February and basically everyone ignored it as BS. In their minds, he was as much a freak as Bush and could in theory play any of the 4 positions along the defensive line. Also, there were some behind the scenes reasons for Bush not getting drafted that involve some combination money, ego, that housing stuff in California and concerns about adjusting to be a one cut and go back. Nothing was totally clear as which was the specific straw, but something in that last 7-10 days before the draft made the Texans sour on Bush. While the public perception of Bush and Williams was miles apart, the organization thought differently and in their minds they were choosing bewteen a great offensive prosepct and great defensive prospect. It was not a need pick, in fact, the Texans had just invested FA money (weaver) and their previous two 1st eound draft picks( T. Johnson and Babin) on the DL. They needed (and still do) just about everything, but DL was not a greater need than 5 or 6 other things on that team.

I agree with you. However, I think sometimes the obvious gets overlooked in the draft due to all the over analysis. Bush was the most explosive player on the best team in the country. Williams was a great college player, but did not have nearly the impact on his team or the college season the way Bush did. Reggie was the clear cut #1 pick...and the Texans passed.I also remember the Vikings taking Williamson and thinking it was odd. Sometimes the combine and all-star stuff gets way too much influence over actual on field performance.

Yes, there is an easy argument to make that the Texans should have had Reggie Bush as the highest rated person on their board by a longshot especailly based on year one. Williams played OK and while Bush did not take over the league, he has had a very important role on a team that totally turned around their fortunes versus one that improved from the worst team in the league to another bad team.BTW, it is probably time return everyone to their regularly scheduled thread.

 

[Rovers]

Yeh Houston passed on Bush and took M. Williams but ended up saving face by drafting D. Ryans with there next pick as this kid is gonna be a great one for many many years..

They could have had Bush and Ryans. That's my point. BPA is often used because it works. Saints had Deuce at RB, and despite his injury, they still had decent RB production without him. It wasn't like Bush filled a huge need for them, but he has big play ability which is rare, and can change a game if he is used correctly. Teams often hurt themselves by drafting based on "need" because they are passing on more talented players in other areas.

And sometimes need dictates what players should be taken as well, like the Jets last year taking Ferguson and Mangold. I didn't think Ferguson was the BaP at 4 last year, but the Jets had almost no offensive line to put on the field at all. Look at the impact players they passed over to take D'Brick. Actially, I didn't like the pick, but it's hard to argue against.

Ferguson was widely regarded as the best available player at #4. Some thought him higher, and from what I recall, only Leinart was regularly listed above him. The Jet's met need and value with that one. How do you think he played for a rookie? From what I saw I think the future is very bright.

It was what I expected. He gave up 10 sacks, mostly against bull rushes. His run blocking needs some work, he gets overpowered at the point of attack. He does pull and block in space very well. So, in short, the scouting reports were very accurate. Fast feet, hard to beat with a speed rush, can be bullrushed, is a weak run blocker. He is a long, long ways away from being the pro-bowl caliber player so many projected him as however. He tired at the end of the season. He still has trouble keeping wieght on, as he did in college. He needs to get stronger for sure. He lives in a town that is about 15 minutes away from Jets camp at Hofstra (they move to Jersey in 2008) so hopefully, he's going to show up regularly and try to bulk up. He needs to increase the stregnth of his leg drive, and his arms aren't strong enough to get under a rusher's pads to stand him up when he gets bull rushed. I'd call him something of a project, and I didn't have him in my top ten last year. I know most did, but he was sort of one dimensional, and that was easy to see at the Senior Bowl. It was obvious to me, anyway. I had mad man love for Cutler last year. I absolutely loved the Mangold pick. Ferguson has lots to improve on.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Yeh Houston passed on Bush and took M. Williams but ended up saving face by drafting D. Ryans with there next pick as this kid is gonna be a great one for many many years..

They could have had Bush and Ryans. That's my point. BPA is often used because it works. Saints had Deuce at RB, and despite his injury, they still had decent RB production without him. It wasn't like Bush filled a huge need for them, but he has big play ability which is rare, and can change a game if he is used correctly. Teams often hurt themselves by drafting based on "need" because they are passing on more talented players in other areas.

And sometimes need dictates what players should be taken as well, like the Jets last year taking Ferguson and Mangold. I didn't think Ferguson was the BaP at 4 last year, but the Jets had almost no offensive line to put on the field at all. Look at the impact players they passed over to take D'Brick. Actially, I didn't like the pick, but it's hard to argue against.

Ferguson was widely regarded as the best available player at #4. Some thought him higher, and from what I recall, only Leinart was regularly listed above him. The Jet's met need and value with that one. How do you think he played for a rookie? From what I saw I think the future is very bright.

It was what I expected. He gave up 10 sacks, mostly against bull rushes. His run blocking needs some work, he gets overpowered at the point of attack. He does pull and block in space very well. So, in short, the scouting reports were very accurate. Fast feet, hard to beat with a speed rush, can be bullrushed, is a weak run blocker. He is a long, long ways away from being the pro-bowl caliber player so many projected him as however. He tired at the end of the season. He still has trouble keeping wieght on, as he did in college. He needs to get stronger for sure. He lives in a town that is about 15 minutes away from Jets camp at Hofstra (they move to Jersey in 2008) so hopefully, he's going to show up regularly and try to bulk up. He needs to increase the stregnth of his leg drive, and his arms aren't strong enough to get under a rusher's pads to stand him up when he gets bull rushed. I'd call him something of a project, and I didn't have him in my top ten last year. I know most did, but he was sort of one dimensional, and that was easy to see at the Senior Bowl. It was obvious to me, anyway. I had mad man love for Cutler last year. I absolutely loved the Mangold pick. Ferguson has lots to improve on.

An almost depressing review. I was with you in that minority sort of. I thought Justice was better and McNeill would be if his back checked out. I got a lot of grief for saying those things. Where were you when I needed you!?

 

[Rovers]

Yeh Houston passed on Bush and took M. Williams but ended up saving face by drafting D. Ryans with there next pick as this kid is gonna be a great one for many many years..

They could have had Bush and Ryans. That's my point. BPA is often used because it works. Saints had Deuce at RB, and despite his injury, they still had decent RB production without him. It wasn't like Bush filled a huge need for them, but he has big play ability which is rare, and can change a game if he is used correctly. Teams often hurt themselves by drafting based on "need" because they are passing on more talented players in other areas.

And sometimes need dictates what players should be taken as well, like the Jets last year taking Ferguson and Mangold. I didn't think Ferguson was the BaP at 4 last year, but the Jets had almost no offensive line to put on the field at all. Look at the impact players they passed over to take D'Brick. Actially, I didn't like the pick, but it's hard to argue against.

Ferguson was widely regarded as the best available player at #4. Some thought him higher, and from what I recall, only Leinart was regularly listed above him. The Jet's met need and value with that one. How do you think he played for a rookie? From what I saw I think the future is very bright.

It was what I expected. He gave up 10 sacks, mostly against bull rushes. His run blocking needs some work, he gets overpowered at the point of attack. He does pull and block in space very well. So, in short, the scouting reports were very accurate. Fast feet, hard to beat with a speed rush, can be bullrushed, is a weak run blocker. He is a long, long ways away from being the pro-bowl caliber player so many projected him as however. He tired at the end of the season. He still has trouble keeping wieght on, as he did in college. He needs to get stronger for sure. He lives in a town that is about 15 minutes away from Jets camp at Hofstra (they move to Jersey in 2008) so hopefully, he's going to show up regularly and try to bulk up. He needs to increase the stregnth of his leg drive, and his arms aren't strong enough to get under a rusher's pads to stand him up when he gets bull rushed. I'd call him something of a project, and I didn't have him in my top ten last year. I know most did, but he was sort of one dimensional, and that was easy to see at the Senior Bowl. It was obvious to me, anyway. I had mad man love for Cutler last year. I absolutely loved the Mangold pick. Ferguson has lots to improve on.

An almost depressing review. I was with you in that minority sort of. I thought Justice was better and McNeill would be if his back checked out. I got a lot of grief for saying those things. Where were you when I needed you!?

LOL! Probably at my Jets MB, arguing with others over Ferguson. Just to prove I'm not hindsighting.... here is an article I wrote for Draft Daddy last year. At the bottom, I give my take on Ferguson. That last comment, saying his upside was Walter Jones? Not mine.... added by the editor. http://www.draftdaddy.com/prospects/OLSchemes.cfm

The Ferguson except:

D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Virginia, 6-5/305, Left Tackle: Due to the demands on LT's in the NFL (with right handed QB's), agility is a must, and athleticism is a requirement, his ability to pass protect is unsurpassed in this draft, but the part of D'Brick's game that often gets over looked is his run blocking ability, and how well he can hold up to bull rushes in the NFL. Reportedly, he slipped on both the 3 cone and short shuttle drills, but the numbers still remain….. 4.89 in the short shuttle is not good. Compare that to the 344 pound O'Callaghan at 4.83, and the 4.53 of Winston Justice still raises eyebrows here. Differences in track surface speed aside, in this writer's opinion, the comparisons to Ogden and Pace are premature. His upside is more along the lines of Walter Jones with Seattle.