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New Republican Tax plan (1 Viewer)

timschochet

Footballguy
Sponsored by Dave Camp ® Michigan:

http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/26/pf/taxes/house-republican-tax-reform-dave-camp/index.html

Highlights:

Lower rates: Currently there are seven individual income tax rates ranging from 10% to 39.6%. Camp would reduce them to three: 10%, 25% and 35%. The highest bracket would essentially apply to the income that today is subject to the 39.6% bracket -- income over $400,000 for singles and $450,000 for married couples filing jointly.

But many tax breaks, such as the one workers get for employer contributions to their health coverage, would only be allowed against income up to the 25% bracket. So their total value would be reduced or even eliminated for very high-income filers.

In addition, because of a complex formula that doesn't scream tax simplification, the rich would lose at least some of the benefit of having their first dollars taxed at 10%.

Not all high income, however, would be subject to the 35% rate. For instance, income from some types of domestic manufacturing would only be taxed at 25%. Such income may include that from farming and oil drilling.

In previews of Camp's plan, it was said the proposal would have just two income tax brackets -- 10% and 25% -- with a 10% surtax added for the highest income filers.

Higher standard deduction: The proposal would raise the standard deduction to $11,000 for individuals and $22,000 for couples. The net result would be fewer taxpayers who itemize their deductions, thereby simplifying the tax filing experience.

As a result, the vast majority of filers would only have to file a basic IRS 1040A form, according to Camp.

But the standard deduction is one of those deductions that would start to phase out for high-income filers.

Increased child tax credit: The per-child tax credit would be increased to $1,500 from $1,000 and would be allowed for kids up to the age of 18, versus 17 today. But again the credit would phase out for very high income filers.

Reduced mortgage interest deduction: The mortgage interest deduction currently is allowed on mortgages up to $1 million. Under Camp's proposal the cap would be lowered to $500,000.

The plan would also place new restrictions on the tax-free gains homeowners enjoy when they sell their home.

No more state and local income tax deduction: Taxpayers are allowed today to deduct their state and local income taxes on their federal return. That would no longer be allowed under the proposal.

Change in how long-term gains are taxed: Camp would tax 60% of capital gains at ordinary income tax rates and exclude the other 40% from tax. For many people, their bill would work out to be exactly the same as it is now.

Consider $100 in capital gains. A person in the 25% bracket in Camp's plan would pay 25% on $60, or $15.

That's exactly what he'd pay if he's like most Americans today, who owe a flat 15% on all their gains.

But the bill for filers subject to Camp's 35% rate would be slightly higher.

Today, they pay a flat 20% rate. So on $100 in gains, they'd owe $20. Under Camp's formula, they would pay 35% of $60, or $21, according to Roberton Williams of the Tax Policy Center.

On top of that they would also owe the new 3.8% Medicare tax on investments, which Camp's plan leaves in place.

Add a new bank tax: "Too big to fail" financial institutions would pay a quarterly tax of 0.035% on assets in excess of $500 billion, raising more than $86 billion over 10 years.

Change how investment managers are taxed: Managers of private equity, including venture capital, funds are often paid "carried interest" as part of their total pay. Carried interest represents a share of profits from investment funds.

But the managers currently only have to pay the 20% capital gains tax rate on it, which is lower than the ordinary income tax rate.

Under Camp's plan, at least some types of carried interest would be taxed as wage income.

 
Apparently it's DOA, as cautious Republicans don't want to propose ANYTHING- they'd rather run against Obamacare.

Still, there are some interesting ideas here. And if the Republicans win control of the Senate, we may very well see elements of this proposal on the agenda.

Thoughts?

 
As long as 48 percent of the country can continue to leech off the people that work i am sure the liberals will be happy. Bout time for a new obama phone id think anyway...

 
Apparently it's DOA, as cautious Republicans don't want to propose ANYTHING- they'd rather run against Obamacare.

Still, there are some interesting ideas here. And if the Republicans win control of the Senate, we may very well see elements of this proposal on the agenda.

Thoughts?
Not saying pro or con, but we know how this works:

If it's GOP Reid kills it, if it's Demo then Boehner kills it.

The substance or whether it'll help America?, pfft.

 
Apparently it's DOA, as cautious Republicans don't want to propose ANYTHING- they'd rather run against Obamacare.

Still, there are some interesting ideas here. And if the Republicans win control of the Senate, we may very well see elements of this proposal on the agenda.

Thoughts?
Not saying pro or con, but we know how this works:

If it's GOP Reid kills it, if it's Demo then Boehner kills it.

The substance or whether it'll help America?, pfft.
Well, this is an internet forum, so we can discuss it here as if it actually might happen, even though it won't.

I think there's a lot of promising elements to this. I don't agree with all of it. I don't see what we gain by taxing the banks more- that just impedes the marketplace. I'd certainly like to know whether or not this plan would produce more revenue or less. I DO know that it should invigorate the economy, and that can't be a bad thing...

 
Apparently it's DOA, as cautious Republicans don't want to propose ANYTHING- they'd rather run against Obamacare.

Still, there are some interesting ideas here. And if the Republicans win control of the Senate, we may very well see elements of this proposal on the agenda.

Thoughts?
Not saying pro or con, but we know how this works:

If it's GOP Reid kills it, if it's Demo then Boehner kills it.

The substance or whether it'll help America?, pfft.
Well, this is an internet forum, so we can discuss it here as if it actually might happen, even though it won't.

I think there's a lot of promising elements to this. I don't agree with all of it. I don't see what we gain by taxing the banks more- that just impedes the marketplace. I'd certainly like to know whether or not this plan would produce more revenue or less. I DO know that it should invigorate the economy, and that can't be a bad thing...
I agree with the first part.

It's odd, this country has been in a warped political environment since the attacks of 9/11/01 and the economic crisis of Fall 2008.

We used to have political debates (as a country) about tax plans, and education reform and all kinds of ideas, and it just seems like we've been stuck for so long.

This kind of thing is what Republicans used to do well, at least politically.

I agree with a lot of the proposals, but the bank tax should be tied to paying for regulation and monitoring. It should be dedicated.

And I would have one other proposal: any bills that authorize spending should also have a provision describing where the funds will be sourced from.

 
Not mentioned are lots of major changes in the corporate and international tax areas too. It generally does away with MACRS depreciation in favor of straight-line depreciation. It repeals all of the energy credits and many other credits, and basically just leaves the R&D credit. And significantly narrows the scope of subpart F, which is the regime under which foreign subsidiaries of U.S. companies have been taxed since the 1960s.

 
Not mentioned are lots of major changes in the corporate and international tax areas too. It generally does away with MACRS depreciation in favor of straight-line depreciation. It repeals all of the energy credits and many other credits, and basically just leaves the R&D credit. And significantly narrows the scope of subpart F, which is the regime under which foreign subsidiaries of U.S. companies have been taxed since the 1960s.
Thanks for adding this. I have to say there's a lot that makes sense here to me.
 
Not mentioned are lots of major changes in the corporate and international tax areas too. It generally does away with MACRS depreciation in favor of straight-line depreciation. It repeals all of the energy credits and many other credits, and basically just leaves the R&D credit. And significantly narrows the scope of subpart F, which is the regime under which foreign subsidiaries of U.S. companies have been taxed since the 1960s.
There are also significant impacts to small businesses, specifically partnerships and S corporations.

The proposal also repeals the NFL's tax exempt status.

 
Tim,

If they simplify the tax code the IRS won't need to be as big. Additionally, many accountants will be put out of business since less people will be itemizing and many of those that still itemize won't have need an accountant since things will be so much simpler. IOW, PEOPLE WILL BE HURT!!!! And we can't have that, can we? Heck, you were pissed that a private company was going to close a plant in Long Beach that they didn't need because a couple hundred people might lose their jobs. I can only imagine your outrage about something like this.

:lol:

 
Tim,

If they simplify the tax code the IRS won't need to be as big. Additionally, many accountants will be put out of business since less people will be itemizing and many of those that still itemize won't have need an accountant since things will be so much simpler. IOW, PEOPLE WILL BE HURT!!!! And we can't have that, can we? Heck, you were pissed that a private company was going to close a plant in Long Beach that they didn't need because a couple hundred people might lose their jobs. I can only imagine your outrage about something like this.

:lol:
You misunderstood my earlier posts (no big surprise). I am not opposed to causing pain, even a lot of pain, when there are significant, tangible results, such as what's being proposed here. I'm opposed to causing pain when the results are negligible, such as the sequester cuts.
 
Tim,

If they simplify the tax code the IRS won't need to be as big. Additionally, many accountants will be put out of business since less people will be itemizing and many of those that still itemize won't have need an accountant since things will be so much simpler. IOW, PEOPLE WILL BE HURT!!!! And we can't have that, can we? Heck, you were pissed that a private company was going to close a plant in Long Beach that they didn't need because a couple hundred people might lose their jobs. I can only imagine your outrage about something like this.

:lol:
You misunderstood my earlier posts (no big surprise). I am not opposed to causing pain, even a lot of pain, when there are significant, tangible results, such as what's being proposed here. I'm opposed to causing pain when the results are negligible, such as the sequester cuts.
I didn't mention the sequester, did I? Why not address the specific example I mentioned, and put that in context of what you're saying. I believe there were significant, tangible results in that case and you were strongly opposed to it. Funny how you jump to an example I didn't mention or imply to try to support your waffling. As usual.

 
Tim,

If they simplify the tax code the IRS won't need to be as big. Additionally, many accountants will be put out of business since less people will be itemizing and many of those that still itemize won't have need an accountant since things will be so much simpler. IOW, PEOPLE WILL BE HURT!!!! And we can't have that, can we? Heck, you were pissed that a private company was going to close a plant in Long Beach that they didn't need because a couple hundred people might lose their jobs. I can only imagine your outrage about something like this.

:lol:
You think that the tax code is complicated just so the IRS can employ more people?? That doesn't make much sense to me.

 
Why is the NFL tax exempt? What's the justification?
It is considered a business league similar to a real estate board or chamber of commerce. The members are taxpaying businesses but the organization itself simply serves to promote their interests.

I'm not sure the NFL qualifies, but I don't like writing tax law for a specific entity.

 
Why is the NFL tax exempt? What's the justification?
It is considered a business league similar to a real estate board or chamber of commerce. The members are taxpaying businesses but the organization itself simply serves to promote their interests.

I'm not sure the NFL qualifies, but I don't like writing tax law for a specific entity.
I get that, but are MLB and the NBA also exempt?
 
Tim,

If they simplify the tax code the IRS won't need to be as big. Additionally, many accountants will be put out of business since less people will be itemizing and many of those that still itemize won't have need an accountant since things will be so much simpler. IOW, PEOPLE WILL BE HURT!!!! And we can't have that, can we? Heck, you were pissed that a private company was going to close a plant in Long Beach that they didn't need because a couple hundred people might lose their jobs. I can only imagine your outrage about something like this.

:lol:
You think that the tax code is complicated just so the IRS can employ more people?? That doesn't make much sense to me.
That's not what I said. Apparently you don't read many of Tim's posts, which is good. But it's somewhat surprising considering his post count.

 
Tim,

If they simplify the tax code the IRS won't need to be as big. Additionally, many accountants will be put out of business since less people will be itemizing and many of those that still itemize won't have need an accountant since things will be so much simpler. IOW, PEOPLE WILL BE HURT!!!! And we can't have that, can we? Heck, you were pissed that a private company was going to close a plant in Long Beach that they didn't need because a couple hundred people might lose their jobs. I can only imagine your outrage about something like this.

:lol:
You think that the tax code is complicated just so the IRS can employ more people?? That doesn't make much sense to me.
That's not what I said. Apparently you don't read many of Tim's posts.
Apparently you don't either.
 
Tim,

If they simplify the tax code the IRS won't need to be as big. Additionally, many accountants will be put out of business since less people will be itemizing and many of those that still itemize won't have need an accountant since things will be so much simpler. IOW, PEOPLE WILL BE HURT!!!! And we can't have that, can we? Heck, you were pissed that a private company was going to close a plant in Long Beach that they didn't need because a couple hundred people might lose their jobs. I can only imagine your outrage about something like this.

:lol:
You think that the tax code is complicated just so the IRS can employ more people?? That doesn't make much sense to me.
That's not what I said. Apparently you don't read many of Tim's posts.
Apparently you don't either.
You still haven't answered my post in the context it was written. Just clinging to an example that has nothing to do with what I posted.

:lmao:

 
Why is the NFL tax exempt? What's the justification?
It is considered a business league similar to a real estate board or chamber of commerce. The members are taxpaying businesses but the organization itself simply serves to promote their interests.

I'm not sure the NFL qualifies, but I don't like writing tax law for a specific entity.
I get that, but are MLB and the NBA also exempt?
I don't believe either is tax exempt but MLB has an anti-trust exemption which is different. The NHL and PGA are also 501©(6) exempt organizations, however.

 
Never thought we'd see marijuana legalization so I'm still holding out hope for the fair tax to be adopted.
In today's inbox-

Dear BFS,

Are you fed up with Washington’s assault on your liberty?

I am, and have been for years. Yet I remain hopeful that you and I (and millions of other fed up Americans) will join to fight for the common sense FairTax® plan.

The American people have finally figured out that most politicians in Washington, and their special interests friends, don’t give a rip about them, their needs or anything that even smells of common sense.

In fact, common sense would be the ruin of them.

It is the very reason why so many of them hate the FairTax plan. As I have said so many times, the FairTax represents the greatest transfer of power from politicians back to the people since the writing of the Constitution.

We have reached a point in our nation’s history where this transfer is needed more than ever before. Too many politicians’ actions make it seem as if they only care about lining their pockets, re-election, and taxpayer funded vacations.

And this assault on taxpayers stinks for the rest of us who work hard, play by the rules and still have trouble making ends meet.

That’s why I am committed to helping my good friends at Americans For Fair Taxation (AFFT) pass H.R. 25, which now has 74 co-sponsors in the House and 8 in the U.S. Senate, and continues to pick up steam as I write. In fact… Congressman Rob Woodall, sponsor of HR 25 in the U.S. House, announced that the FairTax is scheduled for its first vote before the Committee on Ways and Means! Folks, this is what we’ve been waiting for!

Are you buried in receipts and forms like me trying to get your blasted tax return together? What a ridiculous waste of time! I would much rather use that time traveling with my Queen in the Boortz bus.

That’s why I am using my retirement years to speak out in favor of the FairTax.

I’m all in, and I want you also be “all in” as we call on Congress to stop destroying our economy, small business and taxpayers like you and me.

I know you have heard me say it before – a national effort by AFFT to pass the FairTax Plan will not be easy or inexpensive and the opposition is going to be fierce. Nothing worth fighting for ever is.

But together, we can do this - we MUST do this!

We’ve been fighting the good fight for several years now and are finally gaining momentum as we never before.

That’s why I want to ask you to right now, please consider making a contribution to support my friends at Americans For Fair Taxation today.
Of course all of these e-mails are ultimately about raising money, but it would be fun to see the first ever real vote on the FairTax even though I assume both of us expect it to die for this cycle with that committee vote.
 
This will bite California residents pretty hard no? Their state taxes are pretty high
Actually it is aimed pretty directly at wealthy in blue states. Supposedly because other states are subsidizing their higher state taxes. So OK if we are so worried about subsidizing another state due to their tax regime let's add an amendment that says a state can only get back the federal taxes it sends in. Then these states can stop subsiding low tax red states who consistently get more than they put in and it is supplied by these blue states. Maybe then tax regimes will even up a bit and at least it will be fair

 
This will bite California residents pretty hard no? Their state taxes are pretty high
Actually it is aimed pretty directly at wealthy in blue states. Supposedly because other states are subsidizing their higher state taxes. So OK if we are so worried about subsidizing another state due to their tax regime let's add an amendment that says a state can only get back the federal taxes it sends in. Then these states can stop subsiding low tax red states who consistently get more than they put in and it is supplied by these blue states. Maybe then tax regimes will even up a bit and at least it will be fair
Not following this. Are you saying the tax deduction for state taxes is allowing state taxes to be higher? If so then I guess I can see that.

 
This will bite California residents pretty hard no? Their state taxes are pretty high
Actually it is aimed pretty directly at wealthy in blue states. Supposedly because other states are subsidizing their higher state taxes. So OK if we are so worried about subsidizing another state due to their tax regime let's add an amendment that says a state can only get back the federal taxes it sends in. Then these states can stop subsiding low tax red states who consistently get more than they put in and it is supplied by these blue states. Maybe then tax regimes will even up a bit and at least it will be fair
Not following this. Are you saying the tax deduction for state taxes is allowing state taxes to be higher? If so then I guess I can see that.
Sure if I can write off my state taxes on my federal form it makes a higher state tax rate more bearable. Liek paying for insurance pre-tax

 
Really this plan does have some good ideas. But some of it smells of political games. If these guys could actually sit down and talk like adults(both sides) this is actually a nice starting point.

 
The :bs: meter is in full effect for me. Tweaking the craptastic system we have isn't going to do much IMO. A complete overhaul is necessary and this isn't it. They are attempting to present the appearance of "change" without doing anything substantial....very similar to the left's ACA shtick.

 
The new standard deduction seems like a no brainer. Why can't they do this right now?
I agree. And the answer is, because special interests on both sides won't allow it.
Its because our politicians are crooks and dont give a rats ### about the people. Why do you suppose they voted the ACA to cram down our throats but they are exempt from it?
Is Rush still telling you to believe this?

Congressmen and their staff, then, are getting a questionable workaround from the law — but it's from a provision of the law that treated them particularly badly rather than neutrally. The net result of the law and the workaround isn't a "special handout" for congressional employees. [National Review]
 
The :bs: meter is in full effect for me. Tweaking the craptastic system we have isn't going to do much IMO. A complete overhaul is necessary and this isn't it. They are attempting to present the appearance of "change" without doing anything substantial....very similar to the left's ACA shtick.
If this isn't a complete overhaul, I don't know what it is. If enacted, this would be the biggest change to the tax code since 1986, by far.

 
The :bs: meter is in full effect for me. Tweaking the craptastic system we have isn't going to do much IMO. A complete overhaul is necessary and this isn't it. They are attempting to present the appearance of "change" without doing anything substantial....very similar to the left's ACA shtick.
Not so much. The Left wanted single payer. 3rd way Democrats, essentially moderate republicans, gave us the ACA.

 
This will bite California residents pretty hard no? Their state taxes are pretty high
Actually it is aimed pretty directly at wealthy in blue states. Supposedly because other states are subsidizing their higher state taxes. So OK if we are so worried about subsidizing another state due to their tax regime let's add an amendment that says a state can only get back the federal taxes it sends in. Then these states can stop subsiding low tax red states who consistently get more than they put in and it is supplied by these blue states. Maybe then tax regimes will even up a bit and at least it will be fair
It always amuses me that liberals argue for progressive taxation and redistribution with respect to individuals, but don't like progressive taxation/redistribution with respect to states. Why is that?

 
The :bs: meter is in full effect for me. Tweaking the craptastic system we have isn't going to do much IMO. A complete overhaul is necessary and this isn't it. They are attempting to present the appearance of "change" without doing anything substantial....very similar to the left's ACA shtick.
The bs meter should be in full effect pretty much all the time, but while this isn't a complete overhaul, it's much more substantial than the typical "reform" (although this obviously isn't going to happen).

 
This will bite California residents pretty hard no? Their state taxes are pretty high
Actually it is aimed pretty directly at wealthy in blue states. Supposedly because other states are subsidizing their higher state taxes. So OK if we are so worried about subsidizing another state due to their tax regime let's add an amendment that says a state can only get back the federal taxes it sends in. Then these states can stop subsiding low tax red states who consistently get more than they put in and it is supplied by these blue states. Maybe then tax regimes will even up a bit and at least it will be fair
It always amuses me that liberals argue for progressive taxation and redistribution with respect to individuals, but don't like progressive taxation/redistribution with respect to states. Why is that?
Pretty sure progressives didn't write this. I don't mind red states collecting more per se. I would just like them to stop acting like they don't. I would like them to stop acting like victims as their reps are here..

 
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I didn't see any sort of projection on how a proposal like this would impact revenue.

It's funny how you can't fart on the floor of the House without people getting blue in the face screaming about costs and the deficit, but you can propose to completely overhaul the primary driver on the other side of the ledger without a word about revenue and nobody bats an eye. What do you think happens to the big scary deficit if you jack up the standard deduction, cut rates on the rich by 5% and, in the words of the proposal, put an extra $1,300 per year in the pockets of the average family of four?

I'm all for tax reform, and maybe the elimination of deductions makes up for some of these revenue losses, but to not even address it kind of misses the point. It's like proposing massive cuts to military spending without bothering to discuss how it might impact the military and international politics.

 
I didn't see any sort of projection on how a proposal like this would impact revenue.

It's funny how you can't fart on the floor of the House without people getting blue in the face screaming about costs and the deficit, but you can propose to completely overhaul the primary driver on the other side of the ledger without a word about revenue and nobody bats an eye. What do you think happens to the big scary deficit if you jack up the standard deduction, cut rates on the rich by 5% and, in the words of the proposal, put an extra $1,300 per year in the pockets of the average family of four?

I'm all for tax reform, and maybe the elimination of deductions makes up for some of these revenue losses, but to not even address it kind of misses the point. It's like proposing massive cuts to military spending without bothering to discuss how it might impact the military and international politics.
It is supposed to be revenue neutral.

 
I didn't see any sort of projection on how a proposal like this would impact revenue.

It's funny how you can't fart on the floor of the House without people getting blue in the face screaming about costs and the deficit, but you can propose to completely overhaul the primary driver on the other side of the ledger without a word about revenue and nobody bats an eye. What do you think happens to the big scary deficit if you jack up the standard deduction, cut rates on the rich by 5% and, in the words of the proposal, put an extra $1,300 per year in the pockets of the average family of four?

I'm all for tax reform, and maybe the elimination of deductions makes up for some of these revenue losses, but to not even address it kind of misses the point. It's like proposing massive cuts to military spending without bothering to discuss how it might impact the military and international politics.
It is supposed to be revenue neutral.
I didn't see that stated anywhere- maybe I missed it?

I saw something about congressional analysis concluding the burden would be about the same for most low, middle and upper income families, but that's not the same as being revenue neutral, and conflicts with the info on the website about the average middle class family of four saving $1300.

 
I didn't see any sort of projection on how a proposal like this would impact revenue.

It's funny how you can't fart on the floor of the House without people getting blue in the face screaming about costs and the deficit, but you can propose to completely overhaul the primary driver on the other side of the ledger without a word about revenue and nobody bats an eye. What do you think happens to the big scary deficit if you jack up the standard deduction, cut rates on the rich by 5% and, in the words of the proposal, put an extra $1,300 per year in the pockets of the average family of four?

I'm all for tax reform, and maybe the elimination of deductions makes up for some of these revenue losses, but to not even address it kind of misses the point. It's like proposing massive cuts to military spending without bothering to discuss how it might impact the military and international politics.
It is supposed to be revenue neutral.
I didn't see that stated anywhere- maybe I missed it?

I saw something about congressional analysis concluding the burden would be about the same for most low, middle and upper income families, but that's not the same as being revenue neutral, and conflicts with the info on the website about the average middle class family of four saving $1300.
Just going by what Bloomberg and others said.

 
I didn't see any sort of projection on how a proposal like this would impact revenue.

It's funny how you can't fart on the floor of the House without people getting blue in the face screaming about costs and the deficit, but you can propose to completely overhaul the primary driver on the other side of the ledger without a word about revenue and nobody bats an eye. What do you think happens to the big scary deficit if you jack up the standard deduction, cut rates on the rich by 5% and, in the words of the proposal, put an extra $1,300 per year in the pockets of the average family of four?

I'm all for tax reform, and maybe the elimination of deductions makes up for some of these revenue losses, but to not even address it kind of misses the point. It's like proposing massive cuts to military spending without bothering to discuss how it might impact the military and international politics.
It is supposed to be revenue neutral.
I didn't see that stated anywhere- maybe I missed it?

I saw something about congressional analysis concluding the burden would be about the same for most low, middle and upper income families, but that's not the same as being revenue neutral, and conflicts with the info on the website about the average middle class family of four saving $1300.
The JCT estimate is here: https://www.jct.gov/publications.html?func=startdown&id=4562 They estimate net total raised of $3 billion over 10 years.

 
The :bs: meter is in full effect for me. Tweaking the craptastic system we have isn't going to do much IMO. A complete overhaul is necessary and this isn't it. They are attempting to present the appearance of "change" without doing anything substantial....very similar to the left's ACA shtick.
If this isn't a complete overhaul, I don't know what it is. If enacted, this would be the biggest change to the tax code since 1986, by far.
This is just molding the #### sandwich into a different shape best I can tell. Until the approach to taxes is switched to a consumption model (to match our economy) it's lip service IMO.

 

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