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new workplace gripe - they are taking away a week's vacation. ***UPDATE: UNresolved.*** (1 Viewer)

bigbottom said:
moleculo said:
resolved.

I met with HR this afternoon. She was insistent on following the written policy and that there was nothing in writing in my file to indicate a deviation from said policy. I pointed to my email from previous HR and said, "there it is! in writing!" She said that wasn't good enough. I asked her if our company counsel or president would say it was enough. And so on and so on. Eventually, she caved, saying she doesn't really care anyways. WTF? This is a YUGE deal to me - I care. A lot. The promise of 5 weeks of vacation is a major reason I haven't jumped ship over the extreme turmoil of the past few years - I don't want to start at the bottom of vacation accrual again.

Later on, she admitted to the previous HR team keeping incomplete records, including important notes handwritten on sticky pads. If that's true, why fight me so hard on this? For crying out loud, an extra week's worth of vacation literally costs the company nothing.
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Worst HR Director ever. Ends up caving but also engenders no good will. And in fact creates bad will.
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Yeah no kidding. She totally missed an opportunity to play the "good guy."
 
moleculo said:
Unresolved. Company president did not approve.

So ****ing pissed. HR woman stopped by to tell me, I nearly resigned on the spot. I stormed out, talking a 1/2 day mental health day and doubt I'll be in tomorrow.

Them pulling this crap tells me how the company values my contributions, and tells me I have no future here. I'm so done.
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The job market is strong. They basically made it crystal clear to you that they don’t care about you. You had clear proof of what you were promised and they effectively told you to kick rocks. Start taking your sick and vacation days and start looking for other jobs imo. My former employer tried to screw me after 28+ years of me going above and beyond (working 60-80 hours a week with no overtime or lunch breaks, and getting my life threatened at work through a brutal robbery)—and I stood up for myself and left. Best decision I have ever made in my life. If they want to be crappy with you over one week of earned vacation—let them eat the massive costs of hiring and training somebody new to do your job. Good employees don’t need to deal with crappy employers.
 
FatMax said:
Finding good people is hard. They're unicorns in the hiring market. It's so much easier and cheaper to throw a bone to the current folks that to wade out into the unknown.
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This.

I had to let someone go last Friday. Just got a response to the ticket generated to have him return his computer/phone...

User informed the company that the phone was stolen months ago and never let us know nor was a police report filed. HR will let him know the process for reimbursement.
 
Id definitely be looking elsewhere.

Good luck to them training a new person 👍 Not surprising your HR rep is a moron. Most of them are. The good ones are few and far between. It was obvious from summary of first interaction it wasn't going to go your way. I wouldn't expect anything out of future meeting. They're likely just looking to see where your head is at with everything
 
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WOW thats horrible.....

I would be looking for a new job and do as little work as possible to not get fired right away
 
moleculo said:
Unresolved. Company president did not approve.

So ****ing pissed. HR woman stopped by to tell me, I nearly resigned on the spot. I stormed out, talking a 1/2 day mental health day and doubt I'll be in tomorrow.

Them pulling this crap tells me how the company values my contributions, and tells me I have no future here. I'm so done.
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Basically the same thing happened to me, I feel that pain.
 
So I am a design engineer with 25 years worth of experience. I was the lead engineer for our company's most profitable product and am currently the lead engineer for what will be next year's most profitable.

The problem is, the management who knew the hell I went thru to make the last project happen is all gone. I have to re-prove myself, which is fine...except the new project is not going well - 3 months behind schedule with no end in sight.

New management forced this dog against my advice and I think I'm being scapegoated for the lack of performance. They may want me to quit -the project manager is a bully and the smartest man in the room. I'm quite sure he badmouths me every chance he can... because I don't put up with his antics.

I thought I had the president's back. Now, I don't know.

She wants to meet with me tomorrow. I have no idea how HR framed this whole debate but it will be made very clear that at the end of the day, it's not about the vacation time, it's the lack of respect and trust. How can I trust a company to renege in this, twice? How can I trust a company that sides with "lack of evidence" over the evidence I provided?
 
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moleculo said:
So I am a design engineer with 25 years worth of experience. I was the lead engineer for our company's most profitable product and am currently the lead engineer for what will be next year's most profitable.

The problem is, the management who knew the hell I went thru to make the last project happen is all gone. I have to re-prove myself, which is fine...except the new project is not going well - 3 months behind schedule with no end in sight.

New management forced this dog against my advice and I think I'm being scapegoated for the lack of performance. They may want me to quit -the project manager is a bully and the smartest man in the room. I'm quite sure he badmouths me every chance he can... because I don't put up with his antics.

I thought I had the president's back. Now, I don't know.

She wants to meet with me. I have no idea how HR framed this whole debate but it will be made very clear that at the end of the day, it's not about the vacation time, it's the lack of respect and trust. How can I trust a company to renege in this, twice? How can I trust a company that sides with "lack of evidence" over the evidence I provided?
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Dude this sucks. I really hope you get taken care of or find something better elsewhere. You sound like the opposite of this yahoo.
 
Jayrod said:
moleculo said:
So I am a design engineer with 25 years worth of experience. I was the lead engineer for our company's most profitable product and am currently the lead engineer for what will be next year's most profitable.

The problem is, the management who knew the hell I went thru to make the last project happen is all gone. I have to re-prove myself, which is fine...except the new project is not going well - 3 months behind schedule with no end in sight.

New management forced this dog against my advice and I think I'm being scapegoated for the lack of performance. They may want me to quit -the project manager is a bully and the smartest man in the room. I'm quite sure he badmouths me every chance he can... because I don't put up with his antics.

I thought I had the president's back. Now, I don't know.

She wants to meet with me. I have no idea how HR framed this whole debate but it will be made very clear that at the end of the day, it's not about the vacation time, it's the lack of respect and trust. How can I trust a company to renege in this, twice? How can I trust a company that sides with "lack of evidence" over the evidence I provided?
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Dude this sucks. I really hope you get taken care of or find something better elsewhere. You sound like the opposite of this yahoo.
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One problem with engineers is we don't promote ourselves well. I'm not a great speaker, etc... but more than that engineers tend to focus on saving problems vs making ourselves look good. Really, any engineer who can self-promote isn't an engineer for very long.

And since I'm still in the grind, I'm obviously not good at that other stuff. Otherwise I'd be a director or VP somewhere.
 
LMK if you want mec to reach out to my colleagues down in the Carolinas. I know more people down there now.

Not to say my company is hot ****, but I don't think they'd do me like that if I presented the same situation.
 
moleculo said:
One problem with engineers is we don't promote ourselves well. I'm not a great speaker, etc... but more than that engineers tend to focus on saving problems vs making ourselves look good. Really, any engineer who can self-promote isn't an engineer for very long.

And since I'm still in the grind, I'm obviously not good at that other stuff. Otherwise I'd be a director or VP somewhere.
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Our backgrounds are similar. Primary, I'm a design engineer as well, 20+ years. I'm the guy that people approach to figure out problems. It's a role that I like, and it's something I'm good at. But I don't know how to do anything else. Not well at least.

Day to day, I'm forced to be a manager too sometimes. I hate it.
 
met with the president today. HR woman was hasty telling me the president refused. President wants to dig into it, look for older documentation, etc before making the call, which is fair. HR woman coming in and telling me she refused is really what ticked me off yesterday. I sat down with her and explained the whole thing. I'm still not confident I'm going to be granted this. She is more concerned about treating everyone fairly (i.e. the same) than honoring prior commitments that can't be independently substantiated.
 
moleculo said:
met with the president today. HR woman was hasty telling me the president refused. President wants to dig into it, look for older documentation, etc before making the call, which is fair. HR woman coming in and telling me she refused is really what ticked me off yesterday. I sat down with her and explained the whole thing. I'm still not confident I'm going to be granted this. She is more concerned about treating everyone fairly (i.e. the same) than honoring prior commitments that can't be independently substantiated.
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That is an HR mentality. "nobody gets anything special" even if negotiated.
It gets back to HR and they can't handle the flak. Here's point/question- was this ever an issue before?

They didn't know about it, UNTIL you brought it up. I'm guessing not/never an issue.
 
moleculo said:
met with the president today. HR woman was hasty telling me the president refused. President wants to dig into it, look for older documentation, etc before making the call, which is fair. HR woman coming in and telling me she refused is really what ticked me off yesterday. I sat down with her and explained the whole thing. I'm still not confident I'm going to be granted this. She is more concerned about treating everyone fairly (i.e. the same) than honoring prior commitments that can't be independently substantiated.
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This kind of thing is a big reason the world is so crappy. People complain that it's not fair that moleculo gets an extra week of vaction. It's not fair, why not me? boo-hoo. Rather than be happy moleculo was able to negotiate (meaning, hey maybe I can get that some day if I negotiate it) and move on. It doesn't affect anybody else but because I can't have it nobody can have it.

I do get it from the HR perspective although why do they even have to publicize it? Why can't it just be between moleculo and the company? I don't know if co-workers get extra vacation time. I don't track the time they take off. People are too worried about other's rather than just taking care of their own business.
 
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moleculo said:
met with the president today. HR woman was hasty telling me the president refused. President wants to dig into it, look for older documentation, etc before making the call, which is fair. HR woman coming in and telling me she refused is really what ticked me off yesterday. I sat down with her and explained the whole thing. I'm still not confident I'm going to be granted this. She is more concerned about treating everyone fairly (i.e. the same) than honoring prior commitments that can't be independently substantiated.
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I dunno man. I'd probably be looking for another job regardless of how this turns out. You have it in writing from the previous HR person what you were promised. The company admitted to you they didn't keep complete records and/or document things well. So, if the President finds the records great, but if she doesn't that doesn't mean they never existed. So you get screwed because someone didn't document it properly despite the fact that you have proof that they committed to it? Should be an easy "yeah you get your vacation" but they're looking for any reason NOT to grant it.
 
HR and employee policies are a necessary evil for companies with any number of employees over 5 (kind of like accounting!).

But there is some real frustration for HR that is poorly run or illogical. Usually it is just management/ownership being cheap or afraid of being taken advantage of and that is usually based on some short-term thinking. If a company backs up and really looks at it, the cost/risk of replacing a remotely competent employee with at least 2 years experience is much higher than just making some concessions to keep that same staff happy. Not only do you have the recruiting and training time, but the learning curve, inevitable mistakes and risk that the new employee is actually worse than the old one.

A lot of people in all fields can't see the forest for the trees but it usually doesn't effect others quite like HR decisions.
 
Gally said:
moleculo said:
met with the president today. HR woman was hasty telling me the president refused. President wants to dig into it, look for older documentation, etc before making the call, which is fair. HR woman coming in and telling me she refused is really what ticked me off yesterday. I sat down with her and explained the whole thing. I'm still not confident I'm going to be granted this. She is more concerned about treating everyone fairly (i.e. the same) than honoring prior commitments that can't be independently substantiated.
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This kind of thing is a big reason the world is so crappy. People complain that it's not fair that moleculo gets an extra week of vaction. It's not fair, why not me? boo-hoo. Rather than be happy moleculo was able to negotiate (meaning, hey maybe I can get that some day if I negotiate it) and move on. It doesn't affect anybody else but because I can't have it nobody can have it.

I do get it from the HR perspective although why do they even have to publicize it? Why can't it just be between moleculo and the company? I don't know if co-workers get extra vacation time. I don't track the time they take off. People are too worried about other's rather than just taking care of their own business.
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Here's the thing; no one goes around asking how much vacation someone has. It's kind of like asking about salary.

But you better believe I'm griping to my closest friends in the office about how I'm getting screwed over.
 
beer 30 said:
moleculo said:
consumer products, mostly. South Carolina.
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Man I wish we had something for you at Sunbelt, we're hiring everyday but I don't think there is anything that translates to your field. We just moved to one of the buildings at Kingsley.
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Interesting. I didn't know y'all were there. A short drive from me, and I know the owners at Replay. Not a huge fan of their beer but a fun place.
 
I've given my notice and/or taken voluntary redundancy for more trivial stuff than this on more than one occasion. Seems an extremely simple back me or start finding someone else situation
 
news on two fronts:
  1. I was told by my boss that the president approved of my original vacation policy. So that's done. I have yet to follow up and make sure it's in my file with HR - frankly, I won't be here long enough for it to matter.
  2. I have an interview lined up for Monday! I don't want to jinx it but it looks to be a perfect match.
 
moleculo said:
news on two fronts:
  1. I was told by my boss that the president approved of my original vacation policy. So that's done. I have yet to follow up and make sure it's in my file with HR - frankly, I won't be here long enough for it to matter.
  2. I have an interview lined up for Monday! I don't want to jinx it but it looks to be a perfect match.
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Any chance they try to convince you stay? Would you be interested? What would it take?

I only ask because for me it would be a yes, no and I don't think they have enough money.
 
moleculo said:
Dr. Octopus said:
moleculo said:
oh, I'm looking, believe me. This is but the most recent bit of BS they are pulling.
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I'd look into what the general policy was when you were hired, and if/when it was amended for starters. Do you have a superior that you report to that would step in?
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he's no help. He's barely holding onto his job right now anyways. This companies management from my supervisor up is and has been a ****show since day 1. Lots of potential to get it together, but the only reasons I stuck around this long are (1) I wanted to be a part of the rebuild and (2) the generous vacation policy. Neither of those turned out to be viable.
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Sorry to hear GB.
 
moleculo said:
bigbottom said:
Does your employment offer letter include language along the lines of “this offer letter is not a contract of employment” or that “your employment is at will”?

Edit: Also, is the bit about receiving five weeks of vacation after 7 years in your offer letter, or was it just in the email from the HR person?
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It's an employment at will. The vacation accrual schedule is not on the offer letter, just how many weeks I got year 1.
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Ironic that you're at Will, no?
 
ConstruxBoy said:
moleculo said:
bigbottom said:
Does your employment offer letter include language along the lines of “this offer letter is not a contract of employment” or that “your employment is at will”?

Edit: Also, is the bit about receiving five weeks of vacation after 7 years in your offer letter, or was it just in the email from the HR person?
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It's an employment at will. The vacation accrual schedule is not on the offer letter, just how many weeks I got year 1.
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Ironic that you're at Will, no?
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don't you think?
 
msudaisy26 said:
moleculo said:
news on two fronts:
  1. I was told by my boss that the president approved of my original vacation policy. So that's done. I have yet to follow up and make sure it's in my file with HR - frankly, I won't be here long enough for it to matter.
  2. I have an interview lined up for Monday! I don't want to jinx it but it looks to be a perfect match.
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Any chance they try to convince you stay? Would you be interested? What would it take?

I only ask because for me it would be a yes, no and I don't think they have enough money.
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probably... but no. I have been dreaming about leaving for a long time.

What would it take? Fire my program manager, promote me to his role and back-fill my spot with two junior engineers. Also, I want the head of HR to apologize to me personally.

It's not about money.
 
In your field of work is 5 weeks of vacation after 7 years of work commonplace? Additionally, will a new job give you that amount of vacation to replace your current level.
 
Fantasy_Freak said:
In your field of work is 5 weeks of vacation after 7 years of work commonplace? Additionally, will a new job give you that amount of vacation to replace your current level.
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First question - I don't think so, no. It is at 10 though, and I was getting close to that at my previous company so for me to come on board, that's what I wanted. Some people want a signing bonus, some want salary bump, I wanted an accelerated vacation accrual.

Second: probably not. I have other reasons to GTFO, this is the final nudge I needed.
 
I keep checking for updates, because I forgot it is the weekend.

I hope they offer you the new job on the spot Monday. Can you please wear a hidden camera when you quit the old job? I think the reaction will be priceless and something we would all enjoy and I am sure you would enjoy watching a few more times.

I am joking (kind of), best of luck. I hope you get the new job.
 
msudaisy26 said:
I keep checking for updates, because I forgot it is the weekend.

I hope they offer you the new job on the spot Monday. Can you please wear a hidden camera when you quit the old job? I think the reaction will be priceless and something we would all enjoy and I am sure you would enjoy watching a few more times.

I am joking (kind of), best of luck. I hope you get the new job.
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Lol. tomorrow is just a screening interview. I'm probably overqualified and concerned I'm overpriced.

It's super interesting to me because my background correlates really, really great with the niche product they are building. It's a tech start-up by people from my undergrad college - maybe 35 people in the company, 1/2 are from my college but like 10+ years younger. I looked up their corporate HQ and it's next door to my sophomore apartment complex. Of course I haven't been to that area for 20 years but it's still a common bond.

We'll see how it goes tomorrow.
 
moleculo said:
Fantasy_Freak said:
In your field of work is 5 weeks of vacation after 7 years of work commonplace? Additionally, will a new job give you that amount of vacation to replace your current level.
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First question - I don't think so, no. It is at 10 though, and I was getting close to that at my previous company so for me to come on board, that's what I wanted. Some people want a signing bonus, some want salary bump, I wanted an accelerated vacation accrual.

Second: probably not. I have other reasons to GTFO, this is the final nudge I needed.
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Awesome. Most folks don’t realize you can negotiate benefits. I do.
 
moleculo said:
msudaisy26 said:
I keep checking for updates, because I forgot it is the weekend.

I hope they offer you the new job on the spot Monday. Can you please wear a hidden camera when you quit the old job? I think the reaction will be priceless and something we would all enjoy and I am sure you would enjoy watching a few more times.

I am joking (kind of), best of luck. I hope you get the new job.
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Lol. tomorrow is just a screening interview. I'm probably overqualified and concerned I'm overpriced.

It's super interesting to me because my background correlates really, really great with the niche product they are building. It's a tech start-up by people from my undergrad college - maybe 35 people in the company, 1/2 are from my college but like 10+ years younger. I looked up their corporate HQ and it's next door to my sophomore apartment complex. Of course I haven't been to that area for 20 years but it's still a common bond.

We'll see how it goes tomorrow.
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Update?
 
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