NFL Admits they blew call on Favre's INT (1 Viewer)

[Arch Stanton]

I'd hate for you to say I am being too defensive. I have moved on days ago, maybe you might want to do the same.

I won't say you are defensive. Please list them if you can. TIA! And moved on from what? I have no dog in this fight. It is just humorous to see how overly defensive fans get when their team benefits by some really bad officiating.

IIRC the Viqueens scored on the drive that was kept alive by the ridiculous late hit out of bounds call. Both teams benefitted and were hurt by poor officiating. There were numerous noncalls as well, two instances of which were clearly shown to bein the Vikes' favor. And the Vike's STILL had the chance to win it and blew it with Favre violating QB101 which states thou shalt not throw it across your body over the middle when positioning for a game winning FG to go to the SB.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I won't say you are defensive. Please list them if you can. TIA!

And moved on from what? I have no dog in this fight. It is just humorous to see how overly defensive fans get when their team benefits by some really bad officiating.

OK I will tell you why Saints fans are defensive...because guys who supposedly "have no dog in the fight" seem to only wanna post one sided. They say the refs cost the Vikes the game... Please explain how "they cost the Vikes the game?" OK so the head of officials came out and said the refs missed throwing a flag... weren't the Saints up 7 at that point? Even if they make that call there's no predicting the outcome of that game. Also the head of officials came out and said the PI call in OT was the correct call. For the record I thought it was a horrible call but I guess since the head of officiating said it was correct then it must be right? Then we have the P. Thomas fumble that is being complained about. Two things... one he never lost complete control so by NFL rule it's not a fumble and forward progress was awarded accordingly. The other was that even had he lost control, the ball moved back what, half a foot or a foot at best? If you look at the spot and the red line for a 1st down Thomas made it by a good half a yard. It still would have resulted in a 1st down. The Meachem catch was complained about because by most parts guys don't know the rules...the ball CAN hit the ground as long as the WR has control of the ball and does not trap it against the ground. Meachem did this thus it was ruled correctly. Now on the flip side none of you supposed "neutral guys" never respond when Saints fan points out that around the 11 minute mark in the 4th, Brees after throwing the ball was picked up and the defender leaves his feet and slams Brees to the ground. About the exact same way that the Saints were flagged for on Favre. Also in the 4th J. Greer stepped in front of S. Rice for an easy pick and Rice grabs Greer's right arm from behind well before the ball gets there so Greer is not able to close his hands and make the pick. This is a big play that was missed by the refs. Yet none of you guys complaining ever respond to this when it's brought up. I wonder how the game turns out if that easy call was made? Heck maybe the Saints lose but we won't know. Calls were missed both ways which is usually the case in just about every game. To say that one caused a team to win or lose is ignorant. I still say I thought the Vkings outplayed us and we did not play our best game. But the Saints found a way to win and it wasn't because of the officiating. I have moved on and I suggest everyone else do the same. WHO DAT!!!

Still not one reply from the haters on the other calls. Still waiting...

Haters? I'm learning a lot about Saints fans here.

Still waiting...

That's probably because there aren't any haters to hear from. But when you find one, I hope they give you the validation you're seeking.

 

[Pnishthm]

OK I will tell you why Saints fans are defensive...because guys who supposedly "have no dog in the fight" seem to only wanna post one sided. They say the refs cost the Vikes the game... Please explain how "they cost the Vikes the game?" OK so the head of officials came out and said the refs missed throwing a flag... weren't the Saints up 7 at that point? Even if they make that call there's no predicting the outcome of that game. Also the head of officials came out and said the PI call in OT was the correct call. For the record I thought it was a horrible call but I guess since the head of officiating said it was correct then it must be right? Then we have the P. Thomas fumble that is being complained about. Two things... one he never lost complete control so by NFL rule it's not a fumble and forward progress was awarded accordingly. The other was that even had he lost control, the ball moved back what, half a foot or a foot at best? If you look at the spot and the red line for a 1st down Thomas made it by a good half a yard. It still would have resulted in a 1st down. The Meachem catch was complained about because by most parts guys don't know the rules...the ball CAN hit the ground as long as the WR has control of the ball and does not trap it against the ground. Meachem did this thus it was ruled correctly. Now on the flip side none of you supposed "neutral guys" never respond when Saints fan points out that around the 11 minute mark in the 4th, Brees after throwing the ball was picked up and the defender leaves his feet and slams Brees to the ground. About the exact same way that the Saints were flagged for on Favre. Also in the 4th J. Greer stepped in front of S. Rice for an easy pick and Rice grabs Greer's right arm from behind well before the ball gets there so Greer is not able to close his hands and make the pick. This is a big play that was missed by the refs. Yet none of you guys complaining ever respond to this when it's brought up. I wonder how the game turns out if that easy call was made? Heck maybe the Saints lose but we won't know. Calls were missed both ways which is usually the case in just about every game. To say that one caused a team to win or lose is ignorant.

I still say I thought the Vkings outplayed us and we did not play our best game. But the Saints found a way to win and it wasn't because of the officiating. I have moved on and I suggest everyone else do the same. WHO DAT!!!

Still not one reply from the haters on the other calls. Still waiting...

Haters? I'm learning a lot about Saints fans here.

Still waiting...

That's probably because there aren't any haters to hear from. But when you find one, I hope they give you the validation you're seeking.

That's what I thought

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

If you knew there weren't any haters here, why did you call them out? Or is everyone who admits the Saints had the OT calls go their way "haters?"

Learning a lot about Saints fan psyches in this thread. If this is how you act when you win...what will it be like if you lose next weekend? Almost makes me want to root for the team to protect against massive fan meltdown. Not sure they can handle it. They're barely able to handle winning.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Honestly the Saints fans on this board make me want to root against them Sunday. I wonder if they are all like that?

Probably not. Some of the fans here might have chips on their shoulders. The others are dancing and enjoying their time in the sun. The ones here want to make sure people see their last victory the "right" way-- As if winning isn't good enough. No, I wouldn't say most of their fans are like this.

 

[Tau837]

OK I will tell you why Saints fans are defensive...because guys who supposedly "have no dog in the fight" seem to only wanna post one sided. They say the refs cost the Vikes the game... Please explain how "they cost the Vikes the game?" OK so the head of officials came out and said the refs missed throwing a flag... weren't the Saints up 7 at that point? Even if they make that call there's no predicting the outcome of that game. Also the head of officials came out and said the PI call in OT was the correct call. For the record I thought it was a horrible call but I guess since the head of officiating said it was correct then it must be right? Then we have the P. Thomas fumble that is being complained about. Two things... one he never lost complete control so by NFL rule it's not a fumble and forward progress was awarded accordingly. The other was that even had he lost control, the ball moved back what, half a foot or a foot at best? If you look at the spot and the red line for a 1st down Thomas made it by a good half a yard. It still would have resulted in a 1st down. The Meachem catch was complained about because by most parts guys don't know the rules...the ball CAN hit the ground as long as the WR has control of the ball and does not trap it against the ground. Meachem did this thus it was ruled correctly. Now on the flip side none of you supposed "neutral guys" never respond when Saints fan points out that around the 11 minute mark in the 4th, Brees after throwing the ball was picked up and the defender leaves his feet and slams Brees to the ground. About the exact same way that the Saints were flagged for on Favre. Also in the 4th J. Greer stepped in front of S. Rice for an easy pick and Rice grabs Greer's right arm from behind well before the ball gets there so Greer is not able to close his hands and make the pick. This is a big play that was missed by the refs. Yet none of you guys complaining ever respond to this when it's brought up. I wonder how the game turns out if that easy call was made? Heck maybe the Saints lose but we won't know. Calls were missed both ways which is usually the case in just about every game. To say that one caused a team to win or lose is ignorant. I still say I thought the Vkings outplayed us and we did not play our best game. But the Saints found a way to win and it wasn't because of the officiating. I have moved on and I suggest everyone else do the same. WHO DAT!!!

Kind of funny that you say at the end you've moved on, but since then have posted a couple of times asking for responses from the "haters". I'm not a hater, and I'm not a Vikings fan, so I'm not really who you seem to be asking for a response. But I'll respond anyway.Here are the penalties the Saints were called for:3rd and 10 at MIN 27 (Shotgun) PENALTY on NO-B.McCray, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at MIN 27 - No Play. 3rd and 5 at MIN 32 (Shotgun) B.Favre pass incomplete short middle to P.Harvin. PENALTY on NO-R.Gay, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at MIN 32 - No Play.1st and 10 at NO 48 P.Harvin left end ran ob at NO 46 for 2 yards (S.Shanle). PENALTY on NO-B.McCray, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at NO 46. #93 McCray hit #4 Favre after he handed off. 4th and 1 at NO 42 (Run formation) PENALTY on NO-D.Brees, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at NO 42 - No Play.4th and 6 at NO 37 T.Morstead punts 46 yards to MIN 17, Center-J.Kyle. D.Reynaud MUFFS catch, and recovers at MIN 17. PENALTY on NO-J.Casillas, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at MIN 17.4th and 4 at NO 41 (Punt formation) PENALTY on NO-J.Kyle, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at NO 41 - No Play. 3rd and 4 at MIN 38 (Shotgun) B.Favre pass incomplete short left to C.Taylor [T.Hargrove]. PENALTY on NO-T.Hargrove, Roughing the Passer, 15 yards, enforced at MIN 38 - No Play. 3rd and 3 at NO 38 (Shotgun) PENALTY on NO-J.Goodwin, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at NO 38 - No Play. 1st and 10 at NO 19 B.Favre pass incomplete deep left to B.Berrian. PENALTY on NO-T.Porter, Defensive Pass Interference, 18 yards, enforced at NO 19 - No Play. How many of those can be argued? The big ones were the defensive PI on Porter and the 3 personal fouls, and all were justified IMO.And to the subject of this thread, we didn't see a call on the hit to Favre's knees, which we know should have been 15 yards and would have reversed his first interception and given the Vikings a first down in the red zone. That was the biggest call/non-call of the game IMO.We didn't see a single offensive holding call against the Saints, despite the fact that Minnesota led the league in sacks and only had one in this game, after having sacked Romo 6 times the week before. There is at least one Saints fan who has posted a couple of times that holding could have been called frequently against the Saints for holding Allen. In watching the game, I thought it could/should have been called a couple of times and wasn't.We didn't see a flag for pass interference on the corner pass to Shiancoe even though the DB was clearly yanking his shirt a few feet behind him... Shiancoe caught it anyway, but the holding probably kept it from being a TD catch. Fortunately for the Vikings and the refs Peterson ran it in for a TD anyway, so it didn't have an impact.I have seen others post that an illegal block was missed on the Saints kickoff return in OT that gave them excellent field position, but I didn't really see that.The second biggest call of the game IMO was the 4th and inches spot. IMO it should have been marked short, and the Vikings should have had the ball in OT at their own 41, and the Saints would not have been able to continue what turned out to be the game winning drive.I felt in watching the game that the PI call drawn by Dave Thomas in OT was a bad call. I've since read that it was affirmed as a good call after the game, though I still feel the ball was uncatchable. But I can concede on that one. It's too bad the replays shown during the game weren't better so we could have seen a more comprehensive review.I felt in realtime that Meachem's OT catch was a trap, but I thought the replays showed that he probably caught it, and there definitely wasn't anything there to support overturning the call.As for the two non-calls you cited that went against the Saints, I already responded to you in another thread on those:

I disagree that the Favre hit and Brees hit were the same. The reason I think the Favre hit is a justifiable penalty is because the defender lifted him up and then drove him into the turf. I don't believe that happened on the Brees hit, which was more of a standard tackle. I also seem to recall that Brees had left his feet to make that pass, but I'm not sure without seeing it again. Bottom line is watching both in realtime and on replay at the time, I thought the Favre hit was a penalty and the Brees hit wasn't.On the Greer play, it was close. I'm not sure if Rice grabbed him early or just broke up the pass. I'd have to see it again. I remember thinking at the time that it was close enough that I wouldn't have been surprised to see it go either way.

All in all, IMO the calls/non-calls did not come close to evening out. However, obviously, the Vikings made more than enough mistakes to lose the game. Like someone else posted, you can't leave it up to the refs or you are setting yourself up to get screwed... but that doesn't mean that if you do leave it up to the refs and you do get screwed that it's okay.All that said, I hope the Saints win the Super Bowl.

 

[Tau837]

I'd hate for you to say I am being too defensive. I have moved on days ago, maybe you might want to do the same.

I won't say you are defensive. Please list them if you can. TIA! And moved on from what? I have no dog in this fight. It is just humorous to see how overly defensive fans get when their team benefits by some really bad officiating.

IIRC the Viqueens scored on the drive that was kept alive by the ridiculous late hit out of bounds call. Both teams benefitted and were hurt by poor officiating. There were numerous noncalls as well, two instances of which were clearly shown to bein the Vikes' favor. And the Vike's STILL had the chance to win it and blew it with Favre violating QB101 which states thou shalt not throw it across your body over the middle when positioning for a game winning FG to go to the SB.

The Saints were not called for a late hit out of bounds in the game. You may be thinking of the play when unnecessary roughness was called for a hit on Favre after he handed the ball off to Harvin. In realtime, Joe Buck was saying it was a late hit out of bounds call, and questioning it, but that wasn't actually the call.I'd be interested to know what all the non-calls were that went in the Vikings favor. I'm not aware of any other than the two cited by Pnishthm, and IMO neither were necessarily bad non-calls, as I just posted.

 

[Pnishthm]

OK I will tell you why Saints fans are defensive...because guys who supposedly "have no dog in the fight" seem to only wanna post one sided. They say the refs cost the Vikes the game... Please explain how "they cost the Vikes the game?" OK so the head of officials came out and said the refs missed throwing a flag... weren't the Saints up 7 at that point? Even if they make that call there's no predicting the outcome of that game. Also the head of officials came out and said the PI call in OT was the correct call. For the record I thought it was a horrible call but I guess since the head of officiating said it was correct then it must be right? Then we have the P. Thomas fumble that is being complained about. Two things... one he never lost complete control so by NFL rule it's not a fumble and forward progress was awarded accordingly. The other was that even had he lost control, the ball moved back what, half a foot or a foot at best? If you look at the spot and the red line for a 1st down Thomas made it by a good half a yard. It still would have resulted in a 1st down. The Meachem catch was complained about because by most parts guys don't know the rules...the ball CAN hit the ground as long as the WR has control of the ball and does not trap it against the ground. Meachem did this thus it was ruled correctly. Now on the flip side none of you supposed "neutral guys" never respond when Saints fan points out that around the 11 minute mark in the 4th, Brees after throwing the ball was picked up and the defender leaves his feet and slams Brees to the ground. About the exact same way that the Saints were flagged for on Favre. Also in the 4th J. Greer stepped in front of S. Rice for an easy pick and Rice grabs Greer's right arm from behind well before the ball gets there so Greer is not able to close his hands and make the pick. This is a big play that was missed by the refs. Yet none of you guys complaining ever respond to this when it's brought up. I wonder how the game turns out if that easy call was made? Heck maybe the Saints lose but we won't know. Calls were missed both ways which is usually the case in just about every game. To say that one caused a team to win or lose is ignorant. I still say I thought the Vkings outplayed us and we did not play our best game. But the Saints found a way to win and it wasn't because of the officiating. I have moved on and I suggest everyone else do the same. WHO DAT!!!

Kind of funny that you say at the end you've moved on, but since then have posted a couple of times asking for responses from the "haters". I'm not a hater, and I'm not a Vikings fan, so I'm not really who you seem to be asking for a response. But I'll respond anyway.Here are the penalties the Saints were called for:3rd and 10 at MIN 27 (Shotgun) PENALTY on NO-B.McCray, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at MIN 27 - No Play. 3rd and 5 at MIN 32 (Shotgun) B.Favre pass incomplete short middle to P.Harvin. PENALTY on NO-R.Gay, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at MIN 32 - No Play.1st and 10 at NO 48 P.Harvin left end ran ob at NO 46 for 2 yards (S.Shanle). PENALTY on NO-B.McCray, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at NO 46. #93 McCray hit #4 Favre after he handed off. 4th and 1 at NO 42 (Run formation) PENALTY on NO-D.Brees, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at NO 42 - No Play.4th and 6 at NO 37 T.Morstead punts 46 yards to MIN 17, Center-J.Kyle. D.Reynaud MUFFS catch, and recovers at MIN 17. PENALTY on NO-J.Casillas, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at MIN 17.4th and 4 at NO 41 (Punt formation) PENALTY on NO-J.Kyle, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at NO 41 - No Play. 3rd and 4 at MIN 38 (Shotgun) B.Favre pass incomplete short left to C.Taylor [T.Hargrove]. PENALTY on NO-T.Hargrove, Roughing the Passer, 15 yards, enforced at MIN 38 - No Play. 3rd and 3 at NO 38 (Shotgun) PENALTY on NO-J.Goodwin, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at NO 38 - No Play. 1st and 10 at NO 19 B.Favre pass incomplete deep left to B.Berrian. PENALTY on NO-T.Porter, Defensive Pass Interference, 18 yards, enforced at NO 19 - No Play. How many of those can be argued? The big ones were the defensive PI on Porter and the 3 personal fouls, and all were justified IMO.And to the subject of this thread, we didn't see a call on the hit to Favre's knees, which we know should have been 15 yards and would have reversed his first interception and given the Vikings a first down in the red zone. That was the biggest call/non-call of the game IMO.We didn't see a single offensive holding call against the Saints, despite the fact that Minnesota led the league in sacks and only had one in this game, after having sacked Romo 6 times the week before. There is at least one Saints fan who has posted a couple of times that holding could have been called frequently against the Saints for holding Allen. In watching the game, I thought it could/should have been called a couple of times and wasn't.We didn't see a flag for pass interference on the corner pass to Shiancoe even though the DB was clearly yanking his shirt a few feet behind him... Shiancoe caught it anyway, but the holding probably kept it from being a TD catch. Fortunately for the Vikings and the refs Peterson ran it in for a TD anyway, so it didn't have an impact.I have seen others post that an illegal block was missed on the Saints kickoff return in OT that gave them excellent field position, but I didn't really see that.The second biggest call of the game IMO was the 4th and inches spot. IMO it should have been marked short, and the Vikings should have had the ball in OT at their own 41, and the Saints would not have been able to continue what turned out to be the game winning drive.I felt in watching the game that the PI call drawn by Dave Thomas in OT was a bad call. I've since read that it was affirmed as a good call after the game, though I still feel the ball was uncatchable. But I can concede on that one. It's too bad the replays shown during the game weren't better so we could have seen a more comprehensive review.I felt in realtime that Meachem's OT catch was a trap, but I thought the replays showed that he probably caught it, and there definitely wasn't anything there to support overturning the call.As for the two non-calls you cited that went against the Saints, I already responded to you in another thread on those:

I disagree that the Favre hit and Brees hit were the same. The reason I think the Favre hit is a justifiable penalty is because the defender lifted him up and then drove him into the turf. I don't believe that happened on the Brees hit, which was more of a standard tackle. I also seem to recall that Brees had left his feet to make that pass, but I'm not sure without seeing it again. Bottom line is watching both in realtime and on replay at the time, I thought the Favre hit was a penalty and the Brees hit wasn't.On the Greer play, it was close. I'm not sure if Rice grabbed him early or just broke up the pass. I'd have to see it again. I remember thinking at the time that it was close enough that I wouldn't have been surprised to see it go either way.

All in all, IMO the calls/non-calls did not come close to evening out. However, obviously, the Vikings made more than enough mistakes to lose the game. Like someone else posted, you can't leave it up to the refs or you are setting yourself up to get screwed... but that doesn't mean that if you do leave it up to the refs and you do get screwed that it's okay.All that said, I hope the Saints win the Super Bowl.

Guess you never relooked at the non call on Rice... it wasn't even close. You can catch the replay in another thread. But fair enough at least you didn't avoid my post like EVERY OTHER poster claiming the Vikes got screwed. Looks like we can look at the same replays and come up with different opinions. This is what makes this board so good. Thanks and I hope you enoy the game.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Honestly the Saints fans on this board make me want to root against them Sunday. I wonder if they are all like that?

Probably not. Some of the fans here might have chips on their shoulders. The others are dancing and enjoying their time in the sun. The ones here want to make sure people see their last victory the "right" way-- As if winning isn't good enough. No, I wouldn't say most of their fans are like this.

Meh, maybe you're right.

 

[Pnishthm]

Honestly the Saints fans on this board make me want to root against them Sunday. I wonder if they are all like that?

Probably not. Some of the fans here might have chips on their shoulders. The others are dancing and enjoying their time in the sun. The ones here want to make sure people see their last victory the "right" way-- As if winning isn't good enough. No, I wouldn't say most of their fans are like this.

Meh, maybe you're right.

NO NO NOOOOOOOOOO we can't have a Bills fan rooting for us. Please pull for Indy! Winning will be tough enough without you jinxing us! Disclaimer: Jim Kelly and the Bills were my 2nd favorite team in the 90's

 

[Mr.Pack]

I'm still stunned Favre threw that pick at the end of the 4th quarter. They had the game! All he had to do was tuck it in and run with it about 5 yards. I don't think I've ever seen something like that before.

2007 NFC Championship game down?2003 Divisional Playoff game vs Philly down?

 

[WookieBooger]

Refs are a part of the game also. They made some horrible calls in that game. I pray that the refs get things right in the Super Bowl.

 

[Mr.Pack]

I like how this clown starts all these threads then disappears.

There are a few classy Viking fans here, he is not one of them.

 

[Blue-Kun]

This entire thread is a good example of why the Shark Pool sucks during the season.

 

[Harrassment Panda]

If you knew there weren't any haters here, why did you call them out? Or is everyone who admits the Saints had the OT calls go their way "haters?"

Learning a lot about Saints fan psyches in this thread. If this is how you act when you win...what will it be like if you lose next weekend? Almost makes me want to root for the team to protect against massive fan meltdown. Not sure they can handle it. They're barely able to handle winning.

Do you realize what a jackass you are being here?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I know this will not be popular but what do you guys expect? Perfection? Never gonna happen and the only thing to do in order to protest is stop watching the games and don't support the NFL. If enough people left than the NFL would get the message and try harder.

No one is going to do that so stop moaning because your team got shafted. To this day in most sports bars I go to outside of the Ohio Area, most fans remember the Miami/OSU game as Miami getting hosed...right wrong or indifferent and that was during perhaps the most crucial part of the game, not the 3rd quarter, OVERTIME OF A BCS NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

But you know what...doesn't matter. I'm sure Ohio State fans don't lose a moments night's sleep over how they got that title.

We really complaining about a 3rd quarter call. I seem to remember the Vikings being in range to win the game at the end and not being able to close the deal...but what the heck do I know?

 

[Arch Stanton]

I'd hate for you to say I am being too defensive. I have moved on days ago, maybe you might want to do the same.

I won't say you are defensive. Please list them if you can. TIA! And moved on from what? I have no dog in this fight. It is just humorous to see how overly defensive fans get when their team benefits by some really bad officiating.

IIRC the Viqueens scored on the drive that was kept alive by the ridiculous late hit out of bounds call. Both teams benefitted and were hurt by poor officiating. There were numerous noncalls as well, two instances of which were clearly shown to bein the Vikes' favor. And the Vike's STILL had the chance to win it and blew it with Favre violating QB101 which states thou shalt not throw it across your body over the middle when positioning for a game winning FG to go to the SB.

The Saints were not called for a late hit out of bounds in the game. You may be thinking of the play when unnecessary roughness was called for a hit on Favre after he handed the ball off to Harvin. In realtime, Joe Buck was saying it was a late hit out of bounds call, and questioning it, but that wasn't actually the call.I'd be interested to know what all the non-calls were that went in the Vikings favor. I'm not aware of any other than the two cited by Pnishthm, and IMO neither were necessarily bad non-calls, as I just posted.

I think even the refs said it was late hit out of bounds, but of course you're right I remember now. Still, hitting Favre shouldn't be a penalty on that. On a handoff the QB becomes a blocker. He was hit solidly, but not hard nor was it a crackback block. He just ran over a guy in the way. Wasn't a flag or a fine for the exasct same thing that happened to Sanchez earlier in the day. That one was a Favre Special.I don't see how you can possibly look at the Greer would-be INT and not come to the conclusion that it was blatant OPI. If Greer did that to the WR there would be 3 flags down on the field. And the forearm to the head of Brees is equally as blatant, I don't see how there can be any argument that it wasn't, by definition, a blow to the head of the QB and therefore a personal foul.

 

[Tau837]

I just saw video of the hit on Brees that has been mentioned in this and other threads for not drawing a flag, with the sentiment being that if it was a penalty for driving Favre into the turf then the same penalty should have been called on driving Brees to the turf. The video is here.

IMO those two calls are definitely different. I think the flag on the hit on Favre was much more justified. If I were the ref, seeing the replays I've seen, I would have called a penalty for the hit on Favre and would not have called one for the hit on Brees. Reasons:

1. There was a greater gap in time between when Favre got the ball away and was driven into the ground and when Brees got the ball away and was driven into the ground. Basically, Brees was contacted as he released the ball and immediately taken to the ground, whereas Favre threw the ball a split second before he was contacted, but then took a couple of hops/steps backward in the grasp before being driven to the ground.

2. The defender lifted Favre's legs off the ground before driving him to the ground. That didn't happen with Brees.

3. The defender drove Favre to the ground with the full weight of his body driving into the center of Favre's torso. The defender drove Brees into the ground more on his shoulder.

Basically it was three small differences, but IMO it's enough for the Favre hit to be just over the line and the Brees hit to be just short of the line.

That video also shows the Rice offensive pass interference non-call, and I'd agree it should have been called. And I'd agree that the Brees head slap could have been called.

So I now agree there were two calls that should have been made against the Vikings but weren't. But the impact of those calls combined didn't equal the non-call on Favre's interception IMO. I still think overall the calls/non-calls favored the Saints.

 

[Pnishthm]

I just saw video of the hit on Brees that has been mentioned in this and other threads for not drawing a flag, with the sentiment being that if it was a penalty for driving Favre into the turf then the same penalty should have been called on driving Brees to the turf. The video is here.

IMO those two calls are definitely different. I think the flag on the hit on Favre was much more justified. If I were the ref, seeing the replays I've seen, I would have called a penalty for the hit on Favre and would not have called one for the hit on Brees. Reasons:

1. There was a greater gap in time between when Favre got the ball away and was driven into the ground and when Brees got the ball away and was driven into the ground. Basically, Brees was contacted as he released the ball and immediately taken to the ground, whereas Favre threw the ball a split second before he was contacted, but then took a couple of hops/steps backward in the grasp before being driven to the ground.

2. The defender lifted Favre's legs off the ground before driving him to the ground. That didn't happen with Brees.

3. The defender drove Favre to the ground with the full weight of his body driving into the center of Favre's torso. The defender drove Brees into the ground more on his shoulder.

Basically it was three small differences, but IMO it's enough for the Favre hit to be just over the line and the Brees hit to be just short of the line.

That video also shows the Rice offensive pass interference non-call, and I'd agree it should have been called. And I'd agree that the Brees head slap could have been called.

So I now agree there were two calls that should have been made against the Vikings but weren't. But the impact of those calls combined didn't equal the non-call on Favre's interception IMO. I still think overall the calls/non-calls favored the Saints.

Fair enough. Is it safe to say that if the Vikes would have gotten home field advantage that the calls could have leaned slightly their way?

 

[Tau837]

Just ran across this video, in which Mike Pereira explains the following:

1. The unnecessary roughness penalty for the hit on Favre after handing off the ball to Harvin was the correct call.

2. The roughing the passer penalty for the hit on Favre where the defender lifted him and drove him into the ground was the correct call, specifically because of the fact that the defender lifted him and then drove him into the ground.

3. There should have been a penalty called on the play where Favre was hit below the knees while throwing an interception.

Pretty much what I thought while watching the game in each case.

 

[Tau837]

Is it safe to say that if the Vikes would have gotten home field advantage that the calls could have leaned slightly their way?

I would hope not. I don't think it is appropriate for the home team to get favorable calls. The calls should be the same no matter where the game is played.I think if the Vikings played at home, they probably would have won the game, given the fact that they turned the ball over 5 times, got the short end of the refereeing, and the Saints still had to go to OT to win. So, as someone else posted previously, I think the Vikings really blew it when they lost those games late in the season and blew their chance at the #1 seed.

 

[Pnishthm]

Is it safe to say that if the Vikes would have gotten home field advantage that the calls could have leaned slightly their way?

I would hope not. I don't think it is appropriate for the home team to get favorable calls. The calls should be the same no matter where the game is played.I think if the Vikings played at home, they probably would have won the game, given the fact that they turned the ball over 5 times, got the short end of the refereeing, and the Saints still had to go to OT to win. So, as someone else posted previously, I think the Vikings really blew it when they lost those games late in the season and blew their chance at the #1 seed.

Something we can agree on. After watching the teams in the playoffs I feel the Vikings may be the best most well balanced team in the league. I really think they would have handled the Colts (unless playing on grass really is their weakness). There is a very good chance the Vikes beat the Saints @ home. You are correct about the Vikings blowing it when they had a shot at the #1 seed and didn't get it done.

 

[sho nuff]

Honestly the Saints fans on this board make me want to root against them Sunday. I wonder if they are all like that?

I don't blame them for any of it given all of the people whining about the refs and acting as if they did not deserve to win.

 

[ookook]

Honestly, I think either team that walked away with a victory from that game should consider themselves fortunate. And given that poor calls could have gone either way, doubly so.

All I would add is that because the calls went the way they did it almost seems like a plan to rough the QB above-and-beyond what is persmissable in teh rules has been rewarded. I know it is football, but QBs are pretty vulnerable after they pass and sometimes after they hand off. Winning by intionally injuring the other team's QB would be a cheap path to the SB.

Not saying the Saints did this, as I do not know how big a role Favre's injury played, but it appeared to me they sincerely wanted to injure him whether it was within the rules or not. Too many shots that looked a bit cheap for my taste.

And I did not see the Vikings behave as if they were trying to hurt someone; they were just playing hard.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

If you knew there weren't any haters here, why did you call them out? Or is everyone who admits the Saints had the OT calls go their way "haters?"

Learning a lot about Saints fan psyches in this thread. If this is how you act when you win...what will it be like if you lose next weekend? Almost makes me want to root for the team to protect against massive fan meltdown. Not sure they can handle it. They're barely able to handle winning.

Do you realize what a jackass you are being here?

Save it for someone who has actually criticized the Saints or said the better team lost or something similar. I had the audacity to note that the close OT calls went the Saints way and several "fans" rushed in to "defend" the team-- even though they weren't attacked. I didn't denigrate the team, but some Saints fans chose to denigrate themselves.I stand by everything I wrote. Read the posts previous to the one you quoted. I'm not alone in thinking many fans here have a chip on their shoulder and are acting awfully defensive instead of simply enjoying the win.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Honestly the Saints fans on this board make me want to root against them Sunday. I wonder if they are all like that?

I don't blame them for any of it given all of the people whining about the refs and acting as if they did not deserve to win.

I do. I've mentioned this in other threads, but it bears repeating: People are responsible for their own behavior. If some people 'acted" like they didn't deserve to win, so what? Celebrate your victory and move on. You don't have to get uber-defensive and you certainly don't have to act defensive toward people who aren't even attacking the Saints. Acknowledging that some very close calls in OT went their way doesn't mean someone is a "hater." It means they have eyes. if someone says the saints didn't deserve to win...address that person or let it go. But to rush to "defend" a group that wasn't attacked is silly, and I do blame them. I do cut them some slack for being inexperienced and not knowing how to handle success, but they're still responsible for how they conduct themselves.

 

[Gadabout]

Honestly the Saints fans on this board make me want to root against them Sunday. I wonder if they are all like that?

I don't blame them for any of it given all of the people whining about the refs and acting as if they did not deserve to win.

I do. I've mentioned this in other threads, but it bears repeating: People are responsible for their own behavior. If some people 'acted" like they didn't deserve to win, so what? Celebrate your victory and move on. You don't have to get uber-defensive and you certainly don't have to act defensive toward people who aren't even attacking the Saints. Acknowledging that some very close calls in OT went their way doesn't mean someone is a "hater." It means they have eyes. if someone says the saints didn't deserve to win...address that person or let it go. But to rush to "defend" a group that wasn't attacked is silly, and I do blame them. I do cut them some slack for being inexperienced and not knowing how to handle success, but they're still responsible for how they conduct themselves.

This dude here, huh?Might wanna get over yourself.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Just ran across this video, in which Mike Pereira explains the following:

1. The unnecessary roughness penalty for the hit on Favre after handing off the ball to Harvin was the correct call.

2. The roughing the passer penalty for the hit on Favre where the defender lifted him and drove him into the ground was the correct call, specifically because of the fact that the defender lifted him and then drove him into the ground.

3. There should have been a penalty called on the play where Favre was hit below the knees while throwing an interception.

Pretty much what I thought while watching the game in each case.

So the Pi call in OT was ok then? Same guy as you listed above said it was a good call. So which is it? Is Pererria wrong or right? Does his judgment count only when it bolsters your case?

 

[sgtrobo]

i like Favre

I like the Vikings

they had a half dozen turnovers, interceptions, and they had LESS penalties than the saints

you can't blame the refs. sorry.

 

[Tau837]

Just ran across this video, in which Mike Pereira explains the following:

1. The unnecessary roughness penalty for the hit on Favre after handing off the ball to Harvin was the correct call.

2. The roughing the passer penalty for the hit on Favre where the defender lifted him and drove him into the ground was the correct call, specifically because of the fact that the defender lifted him and then drove him into the ground.

3. There should have been a penalty called on the play where Favre was hit below the knees while throwing an interception.

Pretty much what I thought while watching the game in each case.

So the Pi call in OT was ok then? Same guy as you listed above said it was a good call. So which is it? Is Pererria wrong or right? Does his judgment count only when it bolsters your case?

Is reading comprehension a problem for you? From earlier in the thread:

I felt in watching the game that the PI call drawn by Dave Thomas in OT was a bad call. I've since read that it was affirmed as a good call after the game, though I still feel the ball was uncatchable. But I can concede on that one.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Just ran across this video, in which Mike Pereira explains the following:

1. The unnecessary roughness penalty for the hit on Favre after handing off the ball to Harvin was the correct call.

2. The roughing the passer penalty for the hit on Favre where the defender lifted him and drove him into the ground was the correct call, specifically because of the fact that the defender lifted him and then drove him into the ground.

3. There should have been a penalty called on the play where Favre was hit below the knees while throwing an interception.

Pretty much what I thought while watching the game in each case.

So the Pi call in OT was ok then? Same guy as you listed above said it was a good call. So which is it? Is Pererria wrong or right? Does his judgment count only when it bolsters your case?

Is reading comprehension a problem for you? From earlier in the thread:

I felt in watching the game that the PI call drawn by Dave Thomas in OT was a bad call. I've since read that it was affirmed as a good call after the game, though I still feel the ball was uncatchable. But I can concede on that one.

Reading comrehension and recollection of specifics from one of a thousand posts are two completely different things. HTH.

 

[Harrassment Panda]

If you knew there weren't any haters here, why did you call them out? Or is everyone who admits the Saints had the OT calls go their way "haters?"

Learning a lot about Saints fan psyches in this thread. If this is how you act when you win...what will it be like if you lose next weekend? Almost makes me want to root for the team to protect against massive fan meltdown. Not sure they can handle it. They're barely able to handle winning.

Do you realize what a jackass you are being here?

Save it for someone who has actually criticized the Saints or said the better team lost or something similar. I had the audacity to note that the close OT calls went the Saints way and several "fans" rushed in to "defend" the team-- even though they weren't attacked. I didn't denigrate the team, but some Saints fans chose to denigrate themselves.I stand by everything I wrote. Read the posts previous to the one you quoted. I'm not alone in thinking many fans here have a chip on their shoulder and are acting awfully defensive instead of simply enjoying the win.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say you were being a jackass.I actually meant to say patronizing jackass.

Sorry for being unclear.

 

[Mario Kart]

Never saw a group, understanding that it is a small group, of sore winners before. Saying goes is that, "you have to become a good loser before becoming a good winner" to be a good sport. That saying is being proven incorrect here.

A little humility and reasoning goes a long way.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

If you knew there weren't any haters here, why did you call them out? Or is everyone who admits the Saints had the OT calls go their way "haters?"

Learning a lot about Saints fan psyches in this thread. If this is how you act when you win...what will it be like if you lose next weekend? Almost makes me want to root for the team to protect against massive fan meltdown. Not sure they can handle it. They're barely able to handle winning.

Do you realize what a jackass you are being here?

Save it for someone who has actually criticized the Saints or said the better team lost or something similar. I had the audacity to note that the close OT calls went the Saints way and several "fans" rushed in to "defend" the team-- even though they weren't attacked. I didn't denigrate the team, but some Saints fans chose to denigrate themselves.I stand by everything I wrote. Read the posts previous to the one you quoted. I'm not alone in thinking many fans here have a chip on their shoulder and are acting awfully defensive instead of simply enjoying the win.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say you were being a jackass.I actually meant to say patronizing jackass.

Sorry for being unclear.

The fact that you feel patronized even though the Super Bowl is less than a week away proves what I said. Like I said, learning a lot about fans' psyches here. I still think this group of fans are the minority, though. Hope the week goes well for you.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

A bunch of school girls in here...

It don't matter quite frankly what any of you think..."And just win baby" and "Neil" that means you specificly.

Keep up your crying or instigating in this thread.

NONE OF IT MATTERS BECAUSE THE VIKINGS LOSS AND THE SAINTS WON, END OF STORY!!!

GET OVER IT!!!

No amount of complaining is gonna change, not one bit!

Only peoples who opinion mattered on this play were the people in the stripes.

I'm sure "Just win baby" and "Neil" thinks their opinion matters, but oh so sad and sorry.....IT DON'T

Wanna talk Facts - Favre thru a pick and he did it because of great defense on the play, why was it great defensse? cuz there was no penalty called....PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!

This thread has become rediculous and just a way for people to argue!

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Never saw a group, understanding that it is a small group, of sore winners before. Saying goes is that, "you have to become a good loser before becoming a good winner" to be a good sport. That saying is being proven incorrect here.A little humility and reasoning goes a long way.

You almost wonder what would be the best outcome for them-- a win or a loss on Sunday? Which could remove the chips on their shoulders? Imagine your favorite team, after so much futility, achieving a level of success...and you volunteer for "defense patrol" when the team isn't even being attacked. Is "simply enjoying the win regardless of what people say" anywhere on the list?Now some of them feel patronized. Not sure that comes from the board at all. Perhaps it would have been better if the NFL hadn't admitted that mistake. And here I thought it would have affected Vikings fans more. People always have the potential to surprise you.And I agree this is a small group.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Honestly the Saints fans on this board make me want to root against them Sunday. I wonder if they are all like that?

I don't blame them for any of it given all of the people whining about the refs and acting as if they did not deserve to win.

Well, they almost didn't deserve to win. Let's remember the more important point over all the ref bashing that the Saints won (or rather the Vikings lost) a coin flip. I have little doubt that the Vikings would have won if they had gotten the ball first. So really, OT is already a "luck of the coin flip" ending and when you add in the poor calls, I guess I felt more Saints fans should fell very, very lucky to win the game. Haven't seen that sentiment from them here.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Honestly the Saints fans on this board make me want to root against them Sunday. I wonder if they are all like that?

Probably not. Some of the fans here might have chips on their shoulders. The others are dancing and enjoying their time in the sun. The ones here want to make sure people see their last victory the "right" way-- As if winning isn't good enough. No, I wouldn't say most of their fans are like this.

Meh, maybe you're right.

NO NO NOOOOOOOOOO we can't have a Bills fan rooting for us. Please pull for Indy! Winning will be tough enough without you jinxing us! Disclaimer: Jim Kelly and the Bills were my 2nd favorite team in the 90's

Yeah, probably not lucky to have a Bills fan rooting for you in the Super Bowl. Actually if I don't have a natural rooting interest in the game I go for the team with the Penn State players. This is only the 9th Super Bowl without a Penn State player on either team, but Jim Caldwell was a QB coach at Penn State under Paterno from 86-92 and helped get Kerry Collins going. So I probably will pull for him to win one.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Honestly the Saints fans on this board make me want to root against them Sunday. I wonder if they are all like that?

Probably not. Some of the fans here might have chips on their shoulders. The others are dancing and enjoying their time in the sun. The ones here want to make sure people see their last victory the "right" way-- As if winning isn't good enough. No, I wouldn't say most of their fans are like this.

Meh, maybe you're right.

NO NO NOOOOOOOOOO we can't have a Bills fan rooting for us. Please pull for Indy! Winning will be tough enough without you jinxing us! Disclaimer: Jim Kelly and the Bills were my 2nd favorite team in the 90's

Yeah, probably not lucky to have a Bills fan rooting for you in the Super Bowl. Actually if I don't have a natural rooting interest in the game I go for the team with the Penn State players. This is only the 9th Super Bowl without a Penn State player on either team, but Jim Caldwell was a QB coach at Penn State under Paterno from 86-92 and helped get Kerry Collins going. So I probably will pull for him to win one.

That's digging pretty deep, like six degrees of separation from Penn State. If Caldwell wasn't there, what would the next tie-breaker be?

 

[Sundog]

i like FavreI like the Vikingsthey had a half dozen turnovers, interceptions, and they had LESS penalties than the saintsyou can't blame the refs. sorry.

True dat.

 

[gianmarco]

i like Favre

I like the Vikings

they had a half dozen turnovers, interceptions, and they had LESS penalties than the saints

you can't blame the refs. sorry.

True Who dat.

Fixed

 

[Pnishthm]

Honestly the Saints fans on this board make me want to root against them Sunday. I wonder if they are all like that?

Probably not. Some of the fans here might have chips on their shoulders. The others are dancing and enjoying their time in the sun. The ones here want to make sure people see their last victory the "right" way-- As if winning isn't good enough. No, I wouldn't say most of their fans are like this.

Meh, maybe you're right.

NO NO NOOOOOOOOOO we can't have a Bills fan rooting for us. Please pull for Indy! Winning will be tough enough without you jinxing us! Disclaimer: Jim Kelly and the Bills were my 2nd favorite team in the 90's

Yeah, probably not lucky to have a Bills fan rooting for you in the Super Bowl. Actually if I don't have a natural rooting interest in the game I go for the team with the Penn State players. This is only the 9th Super Bowl without a Penn State player on either team, but Jim Caldwell was a QB coach at Penn State under Paterno from 86-92 and helped get Kerry Collins going. So I probably will pull for him to win one.

Well...the Saints may be drafting your OLB in the 1st round next draft

 

[ConstruxBoy]

NO NO NOOOOOOOOOO we can't have a Bills fan rooting for us. Please pull for Indy! Winning will be tough enough without you jinxing us! Disclaimer: Jim Kelly and the Bills were my 2nd favorite team in the 90's

Yeah, probably not lucky to have a Bills fan rooting for you in the Super Bowl. Actually if I don't have a natural rooting interest in the game I go for the team with the Penn State players. This is only the 9th Super Bowl without a Penn State player on either team, but Jim Caldwell was a QB coach at Penn State under Paterno from 86-92 and helped get Kerry Collins going. So I probably will pull for him to win one.

That's digging pretty deep, like six degrees of separation from Penn State. If Caldwell wasn't there, what would the next tie-breaker be?

QBs who dropped their junk on female trainers.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Yeah, probably not lucky to have a Bills fan rooting for you in the Super Bowl. Actually if I don't have a natural rooting interest in the game I go for the team with the Penn State players. This is only the 9th Super Bowl without a Penn State player on either team, but Jim Caldwell was a QB coach at Penn State under Paterno from 86-92 and helped get Kerry Collins going. So I probably will pull for him to win one.

Well...the Saints may be drafting your OLB in the 1st round next draft

Hmm..true. Both Bowman and Odrick are end of the 1st round guys...

 

[Statorama]

If people are waiting for Saints fans to say that the Saints don't deserve this, keep on waiting.

Let's face it guys, every team in the history of the NFL has had bad breaks go against them at one time or another. They've also been the beneficiary of other teams bad breaks. For people to act like this is the only game in the history of the NFL that had a bad call in it is insane. Did the Vikings get a bad break? It's pretty evident they did. Were there countless "illegal contact" calls the refs could have made against the Vikings but didn't? Yeah, lots.

It also sucks that people can't let Saints fans enjoy this one. It's the equivalent of some Jersey Shore Guido in your face saying "admit it...admit it...you don't deserve to be there!!!". Got to channel some Sam Cooke here and say It's Been A Long Time Coming. 40+ years of watching the breaks go every other teams way than the team I love leaves me with little patience for whiny #####es that have seen their team go to the Superbowl 4 times talking crap to those that have never felt that glory.

Is it so hard to say "Yeah, the Vikings got hosed, but if it had to happen against any team I'm glad it happened with the Saints. There's a bunch of great guys on that team and I'm especially happy for a guy like Drew Brees. Their long suffering fans also seem really pumped about this, and it's a real lift for a city that really needs it". Instead, it's a bunch of yokels saying "I can't believe they won't admit their team sucks".

 

[Doug B]

Just ran across this video, in which Mike Pereira explains the following:

1. The unnecessary roughness penalty for the hit on Favre after handing off the ball to Harvin was the correct call.

Didn't watch the video ... did Pereira cite a league rule? Reason I ask is that I am certain that if it weren't the QB getting hit, that flag doesn't get thrown. For instance, if that same play were run out of the Wildcat, and Chester Taylor hands off to Harvin and then gets levelled, no flag is thrown.

 

[Doug B]

... when the team isn't even being attacked.

You're wrong about this. Playing the "I'm not touching you!" game is exactly the same as touching someone. Gopher's OP was a punch to the face that stopped an inch short to solicit a flinch.

 

[Tau837]

Just ran across this video, in which Mike Pereira explains the following:

1. The unnecessary roughness penalty for the hit on Favre after handing off the ball to Harvin was the correct call.

Didn't watch the video ... did Pereira cite a league rule? Reason I ask is that I am certain that if it weren't the QB getting hit, that flag doesn't get thrown. For instance, if that same play were run out of the Wildcat, and Chester Taylor hands off to Harvin and then gets levelled, no flag is thrown.

That is correct. He said it was a penalty only because it was a QB and he was in the pocket. He said it would have been okay against a non-QB or if the QB was running outside the pocket.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

... when the team isn't even being attacked.

You're wrong about this. Playing the "I'm not touching you!" game is exactly the same as touching someone. Gopher's OP was a punch to the face that stopped an inch short to solicit a flinch.

I don't know the OP but if that's the case then Saints fans were played like a fiddle. Like I said, I think some fans are being defensive and hyper-sensitive. Look at the vast majority of posts in this thread and you'll see people saying a) who cares, b) I'm a Vikes fan but my team lost, or c) yeah, looked like saints caught some breaks. oh well.You don't see the team being attacked and I haven't seen people say they don't belong there. What I DO see are hyper-sensitive fans pledging to rush to the team's defense and lashing out at folks who have eyes and saw the calls in OT, even though they're not saying the Saints only won because of them or don't belong there. It's like a puppy with a chew toy who growls when anyone walks in the room. Nobody is trying to take the toy. If some folks are playing like they're going to take it...don't growl at everyone in the house. Nobody can take it; it's yours.

Then a few have real chips on their shoulders and go off the rails. But I've been clear that I don't consider them representative of Saints fans.

 

[Tau837]

Let's face it guys, every team in the history of the NFL has had bad breaks go against them at one time or another. They've also been the beneficiary of other teams bad breaks. For people to act like this is the only game in the history of the NFL that had a bad call in it is insane.

I don't think anyone has said this.

It also sucks that people can't let Saints fans enjoy this one. It's the equivalent of some Jersey Shore Guido in your face saying "admit it...admit it...you don't deserve to be there!!!". Got to channel some Sam Cooke here and say It's Been A Long Time Coming. 40+ years of watching the breaks go every other teams way than the team I love leaves me with little patience for whiny #####es that have seen their team go to the Superbowl 4 times talking crap to those that have never felt that glory.

If you don't like what people are saying in this or other threads, why not just avoid the threads?

Is it so hard to say "Yeah, the Vikings got hosed, but if it had to happen against any team I'm glad it happened with the Saints. There's a bunch of great guys on that team and I'm especially happy for a guy like Drew Brees. Their long suffering fans also seem really pumped about this, and it's a real lift for a city that really needs it".

No, not hard; I agree with this. I have said numerous times that I'm happy for the Saints and I'm rooting for them in the Super Bowl.